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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:51 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
All A340s that have operated on the FRA-SAN flight have been mainline by the looks of it.


I wonder if the Star Alliance A340s that LH sends here occasionally are CityLine planes? All of the
Lufthansa CityLine A340s are Star Alliance planes.


They're mainline because they have the LH titles in blue under the main Star Alliance titles, the CityLine aircraft will not have the LH titles under the Star Alliance titles. AFAIK, LH sends the A340-300 config with 279 seats to SAN (C30 W28 Y221). CityLine config is 300 seats (C18 W21 Y261) and airports such as TPA receive this config.

Mainline- https://www.airliners.net/photo/Star-Al ... GW5QsSTS4r

CityLine- https://www.airliners.net/photo/Star-Al ... G6fgEPIi4i
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:32 pm

This isn't San Diego news but it is about a possible new airport nearby. (always exciting)

Baja news outlets are reporting that the new airport for Ensenada will not be in Ojos Negros anymore. (That was too far east anyway.)

There's a search going on for a location somewhere to the northwest of Ensenada about halfway between La Mision and the wine valley. Roughly in this area:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0141669 ... a=!3m1!1e3 (about 70 miles south from San Diego)

Here's an article (in Spanish) about this: https://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/estatal/ ... da/2039572

The idea is to bring more tourists to the region.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:18 pm

Curious if SAN is doing nighttime runway construction. I noticed UA cancelled some SFO-SAN routes last night because high winds delayed departure. One was delayed until morning along with a DL flight (JFK and DTW) citing a "curfew." At least three AS delayed flights (from SFO, BOS, EWR) diverted to LAX until morning. Usually dispatchers are supposed to know this info ahead of time, but given two airlines had to divert I'm wondering what's going on. Anyone have any insight?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 pm

cheapflier wrote:
Curious if SAN is doing nighttime runway construction. I noticed UA cancelled some SFO-SAN routes last night because high winds delayed departure. One was delayed until morning along with a DL flight (JFK and DTW) citing a "curfew." At least three AS delayed flights (from SFO, BOS, EWR) diverted to LAX until morning. Usually dispatchers are supposed to know this info ahead of time, but given two airlines had to divert I'm wondering what's going on. Anyone have any insight?


Somehow who is versed in how to read NOTAM's will have to look this one up, as I can't read them. However, from san.org:

https://www.san.org/Airport-Projects/Airport-Maintenance

But that was six months ago. Maybe there's more going on and they haven't updated the website? Hmmm...
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:40 am

Clicked around the website and I see Kim Becker went to Australia in September for a conference and met with Air New Zealand officials. Not holding out hope this will lead to anything, but thought it was worth a mention.

Also, maybe I'm just a stickler for detail, but if you're trying to attract an airline, I think you should get their name right on public documents. She reported the meeting was with "New Zealand Airlines" and "New Zealand Air."

Page 194: https://san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mi ... &TabId=344
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:31 pm

cheapflier wrote:
Clicked around the website and I see Kim Becker went to Australia in September for a conference and met with Air New Zealand officials. Not holding out hope this will lead to anything, but thought it was worth a mention.

Also, maybe I'm just a stickler for detail, but if you're trying to attract an airline, I think you should get their name right on public documents. She reported the meeting was with "New Zealand Airlines" and "New Zealand Air."

Page 194: https://san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mi ... &TabId=344

Ms. Becker makes quite a few trips to overseas airline headquarters -- with some even mentioning that such trips concern "possible new service" -- and I personally have stopped mentioning or paying any attention to them. I don't know what SDIA's policy is regarding what circumstances suggest she get involved in possible new int'l service for SAN but it doesn't appear to be cases of high likelihood of such new service being imminent. She's the President and CEO of SAN and I would think she's got a lot more to do here at home putting out fires and dealing with major issues such as UBER vs. taxis, and oh I don't know, perhaps getting the new T1 built; also that pesky rising-sea-levels-at-a-major-airport-just-a-stone's-throw-from-the-Pacific-Ocean needs a lot of attention doesn't it?!

If there is new service that is all ready to start, lacking only the signature of a high-ranking airport officer, then by all means, she should make the trip. That doesn't seem to be the case involving her many trips that we've seen, such as to PR's hq in MNL earlier this year.

I assume Hampton is still on his game and is highly capable of negotiating new air service for SAN. However, we sure haven't seen his name being mentioned much this year nor have we seen any results of his handiwork lately, including news of exciting new service in 2020, as some of us hoped to see. (Two new Canadian cx appear to be knocking on the door but I'm talking a bit more along the lines of Intercontinental service expansion such as Asia, Europe, and Latin America!)

Sorry for the rant. What do the rest of the regulars on this thread think?

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:00 pm

SANFan wrote:
cheapflier wrote:
Clicked around the website and I see Kim Becker went to Australia in September for a conference and met with Air New Zealand officials. Not holding out hope this will lead to anything, but thought it was worth a mention.

Also, maybe I'm just a stickler for detail, but if you're trying to attract an airline, I think you should get their name right on public documents. She reported the meeting was with "New Zealand Airlines" and "New Zealand Air."

Page 194: https://san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mi ... &TabId=344

Ms. Becker makes quite a few trips to overseas airline headquarters -- with some even mentioning that such trips concern "possible new service" -- and I personally have stopped mentioning or paying any attention to them. I don't know what SDIA's policy is regarding what circumstances suggest she get involved in possible new int'l service for SAN but it doesn't appear to be cases of high likelihood of such new service being imminent. She's the President and CEO of SAN and I would think she's got a lot more to do here at home putting out fires and dealing with major issues such as UBER vs. taxis, and oh I don't know, perhaps getting the new T1 built; also that pesky rising-sea-levels-at-a-major-airport-just-a-stone's-throw-from-the-Pacific-Ocean needs a lot of attention doesn't it?!

If there is new service that is all ready to start, lacking only the signature of a high-ranking airport officer, then by all means, she should make the trip. That doesn't seem to be the case involving her many trips that we've seen, such as to PR's hq in MNL earlier this year.

I assume Hampton is still on his game and is highly capable of negotiating new air service for SAN. However, we sure haven't seen his name being mentioned much this year nor have we seen any results of his handiwork lately, including news of exciting new service in 2020, as some of us hoped to see. (Two new Canadian cx appear to be knocking on the door but I'm talking a bit more along the lines of Intercontinental service expansion such as Asia, Europe, and Latin America!)

Sorry for the rant. What do the rest of the regulars on this thread think?

bb


Agreed on these points.

Is there any version of a 787 or A350 that can take off from SAN, fully loaded, and make it to Oceania? And if so, is there enough of a premium demand from SAN to justify an additional flight that WON'T take away from anything LAX has?

If the answer to these questions is currently no, then visiting that region is a vacation, not a business trip.

The focus should be on Copa first and foremost. Yes, I know, we can talk about the MAX groundings as to why SAN-PTY service hasn't begun, but that's the most likely to be our next international service. Second should be an Asian carrier, followed third by a SkyTeam European flight, either CDG or AMS, or a combination of both (obviously after LH's route matures).

My personal thought is that PR is never going to fly into SAN. The business demand isn't here, and PR is filling up two 777's daily at LAX. Any flight from SAN would be a one-stop (can an A350 do SAN-MNL?), thus competing with JL's SAN-NRT-MNL service. And connections? NRT has that covered from SAN without an additional stop.

As for the issues surrounding SAN, I agree wholeheartedly that the new T1 cannot begin construction soon enough. Southwest is bursting at the seams at SAN, and as the number of transfers via WN continues to build at SAN, the three different "banjo wings" not connected airside arrangement is only going to get more inconvenient and maddening. The Uber/Lyft situation reminds me of the image of an ostrich with its head in the sand, hoping the problem will go away - which it won't. And having a multitude of drop-off/pick-up points for SAN passengers would certainly extend the useful lifespan of Harbor Drive, not to mention Grape and Hawthorne Streets! I have advocated for a long period of time that the Middletown Station could be easily transformed into a multi-modal stop for trolleys, buses, Coaster, and passenger cars (right at Interstate 5!), but there is also the Washington Street exit/Rental Car return, as well as the SPAWARS site being considered. If you want complete gridlock, then model yourself after LAX and Century Blvd and the insanity there - but if you want a functioning airport and flowing traffic, you MUST consider alternatives.

I will happily rant with you Bob all day! Some call it whining and complaining; however, I prefer the term "advocating for a long term solution and not caving into NIMBY's or special interests like the taxi drivers who kept the trolley out decades ago".
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:03 pm

Having just flown Air New Zealand last January during summer peak travel time, I can say they have very good connections at LAX and SFO with UA since they are Star Alliance. Both going to and coming back, both flights were 773ER and were not completely full. With distance to AKL I highly doubt that with the connects to LA and SF, that we would see regular service, even 2-3 days a week. If you can't fill a plane completely in LA/SF, I have reservations about Air New Zealand starting any service here. There are more needs that have been discussed on this thread previously than regular service to Auckland and the Far East..
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:51 pm

Agreed, the airport should look at other priorities in terms of intercontinental service such as additional Asian carriers, Central/South American carriers, additional European hub or seasonal carriers and other priorities domestically. Although, in one of Hampton's presentations from about 3 years ago, they forecasted a carrier from Oceana (Qantas or Air New Zealand) by the mid-2020s. World Trade Center San Diego (Ms. Becker and Mr. Brown are members) conducts many trade missions to countries to promote business connections and tourism that may foster new service in the future but of course, that takes time to develop.
 
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lindy field
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:20 pm

Putting on my "Prophet of Doom" hat, I would speculate that an overdue economic slowdown will catch up with SAN and its airlines in the early 2020s, leading to some significant cuts in service after a long period of increase. I suspect SAN will lose some frequencies to airlines' hub cities and some of the more marginal routes to distant US cities will simply be cut and passengers to those destinations will have to connect. For our international service, BA's route to London is probably safe this time (although it could be downgauged), but I think that we'll be more concerned about maintaining our other existing international destinations, rather than adding more, until around 2024 or after. In the second half of the decade we might see Air France/KLM/Virgin Atlantic to Europe, or Korean Air or Air China across the Pacific, and possibly COPA south of the border (I don't see that as quite so likely as many of you do). I'll also add that another round of consolidation will probably further reduce the number of airlines serving SAN in the next decade. But maybe the new Terminal 1 will start to be built, along with the sea wall, and the San Diego trolley connection. One can hope!
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:11 am

SANFan wrote:
cheapflier wrote:
Clicked around the website and I see Kim Becker went to Australia in September for a conference and met with Air New Zealand officials. Not holding out hope this will lead to anything, but thought it was worth a mention.

Also, maybe I'm just a stickler for detail, but if you're trying to attract an airline, I think you should get their name right on public documents. She reported the meeting was with "New Zealand Airlines" and "New Zealand Air."

Page 194: https://san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mi ... &TabId=344

Ms. Becker makes quite a few trips to overseas airline headquarters -- with some even mentioning that such trips concern "possible new service" -- and I personally have stopped mentioning or paying any attention to them. I don't know what SDIA's policy is regarding what circumstances suggest she get involved in possible new int'l service for SAN but it doesn't appear to be cases of high likelihood of such new service being imminent. She's the President and CEO of SAN and I would think she's got a lot more to do here at home putting out fires and dealing with major issues such as UBER vs. taxis, and oh I don't know, perhaps getting the new T1 built; also that pesky rising-sea-levels-at-a-major-airport-just-a-stone's-throw-from-the-Pacific-Ocean needs a lot of attention doesn't it?!

If there is new service that is all ready to start, lacking only the signature of a high-ranking airport officer, then by all means, she should make the trip. That doesn't seem to be the case involving her many trips that we've seen, such as to PR's hq in MNL earlier this year.

I assume Hampton is still on his game and is highly capable of negotiating new air service for SAN. However, we sure haven't seen his name being mentioned much this year nor have we seen any results of his handiwork lately, including news of exciting new service in 2020, as some of us hoped to see. (Two new Canadian cx appear to be knocking on the door but I'm talking a bit more along the lines of Intercontinental service expansion such as Asia, Europe, and Latin America!)

Sorry for the rant. What do the rest of the regulars on this thread think?

bb


SAN field elevation is 16 FEET above sea level. Even if all the arm waving projections are remotely close to reality, SAN won’t be under water any time soon.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:06 am

I know Mexico has been a pretty popular topic on this thread lately and I apologize if CUN has been talked about a whole lot but I saw this article linked on another thread today.
Link: https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/22/cancun ... t-returns/

With my primary interest in SAN service, I was intrigued by SAN's position on the unserved (nonstop) city's pax counts table:
San Diego 38,654 100 Likely too close to Tijuana
where '38,654' is the estimated number of pax flying between SAN and CUN, apparently in 2019, year-to-date. The '100' simply means that 100% of those pax connect (i.e., there's no nonstop service.) The important note likely explains why there is no nonstop service between SDIA and Cancun...

Of huge interest to me is the fact that SAN is the 4th largest un-served market in the U.S. for CUN traffic! We are beaten out only by PDX, OMA and SMF. (Technically, also by DCA, but since CUN is beyond the DCA-Perimeter, nonstop service is not an option. Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?) So SAN is essentially a pretty large player in the CUN-market but it looks like this route will remain un-served from Lindbergh, just like MEX and GDL, due to the proximity of TIJ.

F9 once upon a time served the market weekly -- Sat nights with a Sunday morning return -- but it didn't last long. I am actually somewhat surprised that the market is as large as it is. (I also wonder how accurate that pax count is since folks that cross to TIJ and fly to CUN are undoubtedly not included in the total. Talk about massive leakage!)

I will hold my comments on the situation but am curious what others have to say.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:08 pm

SANFan wrote:
I know Mexico has been a pretty popular topic on this thread lately and I apologize if CUN has been talked about a whole lot but I saw this article linked on another thread today.
Link: https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/22/cancun ... t-returns/

With my primary interest in SAN service, I was intrigued by SAN's position on the unserved (nonstop) city's pax counts table:
San Diego 38,654 100 Likely too close to Tijuana
where '38,654' is the estimated number of pax flying between SAN and CUN, apparently in 2019, year-to-date. The '100' simply means that 100% of those pax connect (i.e., there's no nonstop service.) The important note likely explains why there is no nonstop service between SDIA and Cancun...

Of huge interest to me is the fact that SAN is the 4th largest un-served market in the U.S. for CUN traffic! We are beaten out only by PDX, OMA and SMF. (Technically, also by DCA, but since CUN is beyond the DCA-Perimeter, nonstop service is not an option. Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?) So SAN is essentially a pretty large player in the CUN-market but it looks like this route will remain un-served from Lindbergh, just like MEX and GDL, due to the proximity of TIJ.

F9 once upon a time served the market weekly -- Sat nights with a Sunday morning return -- but it didn't last long. I am actually somewhat surprised that the market is as large as it is. (I also wonder how accurate that pax count is since folks that cross to TIJ and fly to CUN are undoubtedly not included in the total. Talk about massive leakage!)

I will hold my comments on the situation but am curious what others have to say.

bb


I'm with you on this one, Bob. I can't figure out San Diego - Mexico market to save my life.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out San Diego's obsession with San Jose del Cabo (SJD). There are at least two and sometimes three daily mainline flights SAN-SJD, all on mainline aircraft (AS and WN). Spirit even flew this one for a while as well! Why this airport and not others? Why not this much service to PVR? Why not other Mexican Riviera cities? What kind of pull does the tip of the Baja peninsula have that warrants such frequent service?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, I'm saying I don't understand why that location is so special to my fellow San Diegans. I personally would mind visiting it on a cruise ship, but I'm not up for spending a week there.

As far as Cancun goes, can anyone do that route from SAN non-stop profitably? Even Volaris from TIJ is only once in a while.
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:51 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I know Mexico has been a pretty popular topic on this thread lately and I apologize if CUN has been talked about a whole lot but I saw this article linked on another thread today.
Link: https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/22/cancun ... t-returns/

With my primary interest in SAN service, I was intrigued by SAN's position on the unserved (nonstop) city's pax counts table:
San Diego 38,654 100 Likely too close to Tijuana
where '38,654' is the estimated number of pax flying between SAN and CUN, apparently in 2019, year-to-date. The '100' simply means that 100% of those pax connect (i.e., there's no nonstop service.) The important note likely explains why there is no nonstop service between SDIA and Cancun...

Of huge interest to me is the fact that SAN is the 4th largest un-served market in the U.S. for CUN traffic! We are beaten out only by PDX, OMA and SMF. (Technically, also by DCA, but since CUN is beyond the DCA-Perimeter, nonstop service is not an option. Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?) So SAN is essentially a pretty large player in the CUN-market but it looks like this route will remain un-served from Lindbergh, just like MEX and GDL, due to the proximity of TIJ.

F9 once upon a time served the market weekly -- Sat nights with a Sunday morning return -- but it didn't last long. I am actually somewhat surprised that the market is as large as it is. (I also wonder how accurate that pax count is since folks that cross to TIJ and fly to CUN are undoubtedly not included in the total. Talk about massive leakage!)

I will hold my comments on the situation but am curious what others have to say.

bb


I'm with you on this one, Bob. I can't figure out San Diego - Mexico market to save my life.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out San Diego's obsession with San Jose del Cabo (SJD). There are at least two and sometimes three daily mainline flights SAN-SJD, all on mainline aircraft (AS and WN). Spirit even flew this one for a while as well! Why this airport and not others? Why not this much service to PVR? Why not other Mexican Riviera cities? What kind of pull does the tip of the Baja peninsula have that warrants such frequent service?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, I'm saying I don't understand why that location is so special to my fellow San Diegans. I personally would mind visiting it on a cruise ship, but I'm not up for spending a week there.

As far as Cancun goes, can anyone do that route from SAN non-stop profitably? Even Volaris from TIJ is only once in a while.


I’d guess that SJD is both a favorite party place for Americans, and especially Californians? Some have homes, condos and vacation rentals there. Some are ex-pats living there. Less Mexican gang issues? Cabo just seems to have a different overall vibe.
 
blacksoviet
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Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:00 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:


I'm with you on this one, Bob. I can't figure out San Diego - Mexico market to save my life.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out San Diego's obsession with San Jose del Cabo (SJD). There are at least two and sometimes three daily mainline flights SAN-SJD, all on mainline aircraft (AS and WN). Spirit even flew this one for a while as well! Why this airport and not others? Why not this much service to PVR? Why not other Mexican Riviera cities? What kind of pull does the tip of the Baja peninsula have that warrants such frequent service?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, I'm saying I don't understand why that location is so special to my fellow San Diegans. I personally would mind visiting it on a cruise ship, but I'm not up for spending a week there.

As far as Cancun goes, can anyone do that route from SAN non-stop profitably? Even Volaris from TIJ is only once in a while.

A lot of young kids under 21 like to go to Baja California to get drunk. Most drive but apparently many fly as well. Do they have Uber in San Jose Del Cabo?
 
vedatil4
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:39 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:


I'm with you on this one, Bob. I can't figure out San Diego - Mexico market to save my life.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out San Diego's obsession with San Jose del Cabo (SJD). There are at least two and sometimes three daily mainline flights SAN-SJD, all on mainline aircraft (AS and WN). Spirit even flew this one for a while as well! Why this airport and not others? Why not this much service to PVR? Why not other Mexican Riviera cities? What kind of pull does the tip of the Baja peninsula have that warrants such frequent service?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, I'm saying I don't understand why that location is so special to my fellow San Diegans. I personally would mind visiting it on a cruise ship, but I'm not up for spending a week there.

As far as Cancun goes, can anyone do that route from SAN non-stop profitably? Even Volaris from TIJ is only once in a while.

A lot of young kids under 21 like to go to Baja California to get drunk. Most drive but apparently many fly as well. Do they have Uber in San Jose Del Cabo?


Short answer to your question: Yes, uber is available in Cabo. Is it 100% legal according to the law? No. The taxi mafia puts pressure on Baja California Sur politicians to not allow ridesharing. However, Uber and Didi are fighting back with free rides because tourists and locals want the service. It's a problem happening all over Mexico.

I've seen some shocking videos of uber people, both drivers and passengers, being harassed. The worst of the worst were the yellow taxi mafia at the border in TJ. It was, surprisingly, a group busted up 1-2 years ago only to be replaced by another similar mafia. Also, the taxi mafia works hard to not have the public bus route maps ever be made public. This is my #1 pet-peeve in southern Baja (and TJ). I've voiced that to the tourism department there. It's like requesting the floor plans to Area 51; ain't happenin'.

San Diego Airport is too close to Tijuana Airport now with the CBX bridge fully operational. It's always going to be considerably cheaper to fly to places south by going through TJ.

Tourists usually want hotels right on the beach in Cabo. That's why it's so popular. But I can tell you that most beaches there are dangerous because of currents. La Paz has better beaches and prices but less infrastructure right on the water. There's an excellent downtown-to-beach bus though. There's also frequent La Paz to Cabo buses if you really want to go there.

Out of TJ you can fly to many beach destinations. But for unknown reasons, they don't have a daily non-stop Cancun flights (grr). Also, Volaris tends to put flights to beach destinations at terrible times such as 1am. Their bread and butter is still taking people to see friends and family. They really need to work on this. For example: Acapulco flight leaves at 12:30am to return at 6:35am. Really Volaris? Might as well not have a flight at all.
 
vedatil4
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:45 pm

AirFiero wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I know Mexico has been a pretty popular topic on this thread lately and I apologize if CUN has been talked about a whole lot but I saw this article linked on another thread today.
Link: https://www.anna.aero/2019/11/22/cancun ... t-returns/

With my primary interest in SAN service, I was intrigued by SAN's position on the unserved (nonstop) city's pax counts table:
where '38,654' is the estimated number of pax flying between SAN and CUN, apparently in 2019, year-to-date. The '100' simply means that 100% of those pax connect (i.e., there's no nonstop service.) The important note likely explains why there is no nonstop service between SDIA and Cancun...

Of huge interest to me is the fact that SAN is the 4th largest un-served market in the U.S. for CUN traffic! We are beaten out only by PDX, OMA and SMF. (Technically, also by DCA, but since CUN is beyond the DCA-Perimeter, nonstop service is not an option. Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?) So SAN is essentially a pretty large player in the CUN-market but it looks like this route will remain un-served from Lindbergh, just like MEX and GDL, due to the proximity of TIJ.

F9 once upon a time served the market weekly -- Sat nights with a Sunday morning return -- but it didn't last long. I am actually somewhat surprised that the market is as large as it is. (I also wonder how accurate that pax count is since folks that cross to TIJ and fly to CUN are undoubtedly not included in the total. Talk about massive leakage!)

I will hold my comments on the situation but am curious what others have to say.

bb


I'm with you on this one, Bob. I can't figure out San Diego - Mexico market to save my life.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out San Diego's obsession with San Jose del Cabo (SJD). There are at least two and sometimes three daily mainline flights SAN-SJD, all on mainline aircraft (AS and WN). Spirit even flew this one for a while as well! Why this airport and not others? Why not this much service to PVR? Why not other Mexican Riviera cities? What kind of pull does the tip of the Baja peninsula have that warrants such frequent service?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go, I'm saying I don't understand why that location is so special to my fellow San Diegans. I personally would mind visiting it on a cruise ship, but I'm not up for spending a week there.

As far as Cancun goes, can anyone do that route from SAN non-stop profitably? Even Volaris from TIJ is only once in a while.


I’d guess that SJD is both a favorite party place for Americans, and especially Californians? Some have homes, condos and vacation rentals there. Some are ex-pats living there. Less Mexican gang issues? Cabo just seems to have a different overall vibe.


Here's another reason Cabo is so popular: beach hotels in California are waaaaay too expensive for middle-class folks to afford. For the price of a few nights in, say, La Jolla or Newport Beach, it's usually cheaper to fly roundtrip to Cabo, stay at a nicer resort, and be right on the beach.

If you don't believe me, just look up how much hotels in Imperial Beach want to charge. Outrageous. And it's one of the most contaminated beaches in the US too.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:03 pm

I think an FIS bridge and checkpoint needs to be built at CBX sooner rather than later. I would like to be able to use TIJ to return to San Diego directly from Central America or China.

I don’t want to have to deal with Mexican FIS. Big waste of everybody’s time. There is plenty of land available on the Otay Mesa side of the CBX. It looks like they planned for an FIS building.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:55 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I think an FIS bridge and checkpoint needs to be built at CBX sooner rather than later. I would like to be able to use TIJ to return to San Diego directly from Central America or China.

I don’t want to have to deal with Mexican FIS. Big waste of everybody’s time. There is plenty of land available on the Otay Mesa side of the CBX. It looks like they planned for an FIS building.


I can tell you that the CBX people are trying to set that up. But I haven't seen anything about a separate bridge. I keep an eye on TJ news in case something pops up. I share the information here from time to time. I even found a rendering from the architecture firm on youtube. Search the forums for "CBX", TIJ, or Tijuana in the Civil Aviation section and the Travel, Polls, & Preference sections and those posts should pop up.

I have a feeling the direct Costa Rica and Guatemala flights were cancelled there because of the double immigration and customs checks. I read about people bringing things prohibited or limited in Mexico but OK in the US. People would make the valid case that they were only going to be in Mexico for a few minutes with no luck.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:07 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Here's another reason Cabo is so popular: beach hotels in California are waaaaay too expensive for middle-class folks to afford. For the price of a few nights in, say, La Jolla or Newport Beach, it's usually cheaper to fly roundtrip to Cabo, stay at a nicer resort, and be right on the beach.

If you don't believe me, just look up how much hotels in Imperial Beach want to charge. Outrageous. And it's one of the most contaminated beaches in the US too.


As a resident here, I get that. Same with all of coastal California. But it can be incredibly seasonal, especially in San Diego between Memorial Day and Labor Day.

However, unless there's some reason to be routed THROUGH San Diego, Southwest and Alaska are relying primarily on O&D for these flights, not connecting passengers. This means that SAN-SJD flights are full of San Diegans going on vacation, not full of connecting passengers transferring at SAN.

There's just something about this area that a lot of San Diegans have fallen in love with. If they enjoy it enough for 2-3 mainline flights per day year-round, great for everyone involved! I just don't get the magnitude of the draw from my fellow San Diegans, compared with other Mexican locations. But not my judgement call.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:58 am

I'm gonna post the latest pax numbers for SAN (October) which were just released, just because. There might be one or two people out there on A.net who might be interested.

TL pax in October 2019: 2,146,628 - up 4.3% y-o-y. This increase was on a 5.5% increase in seats offered;
TL pax year-to-date thru 10/31/19: 21,082,837 - 4.1% increase over the same period in 2018;
TL Int'l pax in October 2019: 87,093 - down 2.5% y-o-y;
Y-T-D increase in Int'l pax thru 10/31/19: .9%;
WN market share in Oct: 37.9%;
AS market share in Oct: 14.6%;
DL market share in Oct: 12.2%;
UA market share in Oct: 12.1%.

Int'l cargo for Oct was reported at 1,263 tons, up 47% y-o-y! (SDIA noted that this increase appears to be primarily due to increased cargo flown in and out of SAN on JL!)

The greatest-pax-increase award for the month goes (surprisingly) to JetBlue with a 60% growth over October 2018! Those extra flights/seats to both BOS & JFK are apparently being well utilized.

The continuing decrease in Int'l pax using SDIA remains troubling to me. I wonder if 2019 will even see an overall increase in said traffic when the year ends? Gulp... It just doesn't seem that such numbers are helping our airport land additional int'l air carriers or capacity on the existing ones.)

My calculator says that if this 4+% rate of increase continues for the remainder of 2019 -- 2 busy months -- SAN should have no trouble exceeding 25M pax this year! To me, still amazing to think about.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:44 pm

SANFan wrote:
I'm gonna post the latest pax numbers for SAN (October) which were just released, just because. There might be one or two people out there on A.net who might be interested.

TL pax in October 2019: 2,146,628 - up 4.3% y-o-y. This increase was on a 5.5% increase in seats offered;
TL pax year-to-date thru 10/31/19: 21,082,837 - 4.1% increase over the same period in 2018;
TL Int'l pax in October 2019: 87,093 - down 2.5% y-o-y;
Y-T-D increase in Int'l pax thru 10/31/19: .9%;
WN market share in Oct: 37.9%;
AS market share in Oct: 14.6%;
DL market share in Oct: 12.2%;
UA market share in Oct: 12.1%.

Int'l cargo for Oct was reported at 1,263 tons, up 47% y-o-y! (SDIA noted that this increase appears to be primarily due to increased cargo flown in and out of SAN on JL!)

The greatest-pax-increase award for the month goes (surprisingly) to JetBlue with a 60% growth over October 2018! Those extra flights/seats to both BOS & JFK are apparently being well utilized.

The continuing decrease in Int'l pax using SDIA remains troubling to me. I wonder if 2019 will even see an overall increase in said traffic when the year ends? Gulp... It just doesn't seem that such numbers are helping our airport land additional int'l air carriers or capacity on the existing ones.)

My calculator says that if this 4+% rate of increase continues for the remainder of 2019 -- 2 busy months -- SAN should have no trouble exceeding 25M pax this year! To me, still amazing to think about.

bb


LOVE the information!! Thanks for looking it all up.

100% - 37.9% = 62.1% (Total traffic minus Southwest)
62.1% - 14.6% = 47.5% (Total traffic minus Southwest AND Alaska)
47.5% - 12.2% = 35.3% (Total traffic minus WN, AS, and DL)
35.3% - 12.1% = 23.2% (Total traffic minus WN, AS, DL, and UA)

Assuming that AA's share continues to slide (guesstimate 12.0%?), that leaves +/- 11.2% (depending on AA's percentage) split among all remaining carriers.

Congratulations to JetBlue for the increase in service - glad you are here and are expanding!! Next flights need to be the RON to depart to BOS and JFK at 6:30 AM!!

I must ask this question again: Are we down international passengers because of Mexico flights being dropped? Since we are not hearing from JL, BA, or LH about a declining number of international passengers, and Canada service seems to be on the increase, my guess is the loss of GDL & MEX from the rosters would be the culprit. I'm not concerned if that is indeed the case, as CBX is just too convenient and $$$-saving.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:05 pm

How does the number of Edelweiss flights compare between this year and last year? If they operated fewer flights that could also lead to fewer overall international passengers, assuming relatively similar load factors.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:28 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The continuing decrease in Int'l pax using SDIA remains troubling to me. I wonder if 2019 will even see an overall increase in said traffic when the year ends? Gulp... It just doesn't seem that such numbers are helping our airport land additional int'l air carriers or capacity on the existing ones.)

bb

LOVE the information!! Thanks for looking it all up.

Assuming that AA's share continues to slide (guesstimate 12.0%?), that leaves +/- 11.2% (depending on AA's percentage) split among all remaining carriers.

Congratulations to JetBlue for the increase in service - glad you are here and are expanding!! Next flights need to be the RON to depart to BOS and JFK at 6:30 AM!!

I must ask this question again: Are we down international passengers because of Mexico flights being dropped? Since we are not hearing from JL, BA, or LH about a declining number of international passengers, and Canada service seems to be on the increase, my guess is the loss of GDL & MEX from the rosters would be the culprit. I'm not concerned if that is indeed the case, as CBX is just too convenient and $$$-saving.


hawaiian717 wrote:
How does the number of Edelweiss flights compare between this year and last year? If they operated fewer flights that could also lead to fewer overall international passengers, assuming relatively similar load factors.


Glad to see some interest in the post guys.

Hawaiian', as usual you are right. The report actually mentioned the "shortened season to ZRH" as the primary explanation for the 'slight' int'l decrease this month.

PSA', a couple of things. Your arithmetic came up very close -- AA's market share was 11.7%; NK, B6 & F9 are all around 2% each and the other 7 cx are between .3% and 1.2% each.

As posted up-thread, the 6:30am to BOS on Blue is already on the skeds in 2020! I'm hoping JFK will follow once they see how popular (I assume) BOS proves to be.

I wish I felt as good as many about the CBX but I keep coming back to the idea that it is now -- and will prolly continue to -- affect SAN's int'l travel numbers, And I think that 's a shame. And eventually, not just Mexico (from SDIA) will be further affected, but Central and S. America and perhaps Asia and even Europe as well. But the CBX is there, so that's just the way things go.

Since it works well for lots of people, I'm happy for them. The CBX is a very unique option for travelers, in an unusual situation that I doubt exists anywhere else in the world. It's a great example of a group of visionary people seeing an opportunity and taking the risk to make it happen; I'm sure they are being financially well rewarded. Like many such things, it's success often affects competing arrangements -- that's what America is all about! So even though I hate to see its presence, I really admire that it got done...

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:14 pm

SANFan wrote:
I wish I felt as good as many about the CBX but I keep coming back to the idea that it is now -- and will prolly continue to -- affect SAN's int'l travel numbers, And I think that 's a shame. And eventually, not just Mexico (from SDIA) will be further affected, but Central and S. America and perhaps Asia and even Europe as well. But the CBX is there, so that's just the way things go.


Looking at this the other way, CBX helps relieve the pressure on SAN. Since none of the ideas for a replacement airport seem likely to go anywhere, we're stuck with Lindbergh which will, sooner or later, become capacity constrained with only one runway and nowhere to put another. Having some of the traffic use TIJ instead buys SAN more time.

I haven't personally had a reason to use TIJ/CBX, and while SAN would still be my first choice, TIJ would still be preferable to heading up to LAX, especially if they're able to build the bypass so that CBX-bound international arrivals can skip Mexican immigration.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:15 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I wish I felt as good as many about the CBX but I keep coming back to the idea that it is now -- and will prolly continue to -- affect SAN's int'l travel numbers, And I think that 's a shame. And eventually, not just Mexico (from SDIA) will be further affected, but Central and S. America and perhaps Asia and even Europe as well. But the CBX is there, so that's just the way things go.


Looking at this the other way, CBX helps relieve the pressure on SAN. Since none of the ideas for a replacement airport seem likely to go anywhere, we're stuck with Lindbergh which will, sooner or later, become capacity constrained with only one runway and nowhere to put another. Having some of the traffic use TIJ instead buys SAN more time.

I haven't personally had a reason to use TIJ/CBX, and while SAN would still be my first choice, TIJ would still be preferable to heading up to LAX, especially if they're able to build the bypass so that CBX-bound international arrivals can skip Mexican immigration.


As a native-born, lifelong resident of San Diego, let me tell you: I'm convinced I won't live to see the day a new airport is built and opens for business. Even if all of the politicians woke up tomorrow magically agreeing that it needs to get built, it will take decades just for the environmental impact report to get approved. The La Jolla area folks (mostly), savvy and well-funded, will throw monkeywrenches into the obvious build-it-at-Miramar idea. Of course they'll bring up the vote back in 2006 to explore that possibility as having settled the issue. But as the City grows around Miramar, it'll become more obvious that the base should be moved to El Centro or somewhere else inland. There will also be more pressure to move the airport as traffic on Harbor Drive to Grape Street to the I-5 gets worse. I don't buy into the idea people will use the proposed Grand Central Station public transportation hub as long as ridesharing is around.

At least the owners of CBX and TIJ airport are trying to built an alternative to San Diego or LAX. Of course they're looking at making profit in bridge tolls. But let me tell ya, I gladly pay the $30 round trip to avoid the drama of crossing the border on foot. I know they're trying to make it so that people also gladly pay the toll to avoid going through LAX from Asia or Europe. The US customs and immigration people there are much more relaxed and less intense than the people at LAX or any other major US gateway airport.

In a different thread in the "travel polls" section, I brought up the possibility of TIJ being used for flights back into the US. It would effectively be cabotage. I think that may be part of Volaris' long-term vision. So they're looking to profit as well. That's probably one of the reasons they set up a maintenance base at TIJ.

Here's a relatively recent article about the current CBX bridge with good pictures. https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cross-bo ... a-airport/ You should give it a try. I've scored round trip to Cancun for less than $200. But you can fly to Mexico City for dirt cheap out of TIJ. Lots of awesome pyramids and museums to see there.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:56 pm

Reading the WN schedule extension sounds like SAN-GEG is getting permanently cut.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:27 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Reading the WN schedule extension sounds like SAN-GEG is getting permanently cut.

Flyguy

You just beat me to it.

Yes, some other findings I stumbled on: MKE service doesn't show up for next summer; last summer (2019) WN flew the route once weekly so I'm calling that another dropped route. TPA is not on the schedule but it was not for this last summer either; it remains an on-and-off route...

In more positive news, ORF is back in summer 2020, even though it again is Sunday only. Also, IND is again on the schedule for next summer - daily. HNL and OGG service continues at 1X daily next summer and SJC also remains at a staggering 16 daily r/t! (AS is offering 6X daily r/t so there should be no shortage of seats in that market!) Oh, and I'm glad to see ELP, OMA remain as daily routes, despite the competition (AS) dropping both.

Overall, not a terribly exciting sked release nor is it full of horrible news. AS has apparently chased WN off GEG. (WN stays on BOI while AS goes daily-double on the route.) No expansion of HI service to KOA or LIH is present.

IF the MAXs begin flying next summer, we might of course see changes/improvements in WN's offerings.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:12 pm

SANFan wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Reading the WN schedule extension sounds like SAN-GEG is getting permanently cut.

Flyguy

You just beat me to it.

Yes, some other findings I stumbled on: MKE service doesn't show up for next summer; last summer (2019) WN flew the route once weekly so I'm calling that another dropped route. TPA is not on the schedule but it was not for this last summer either; it remains an on-and-off route...

In more positive news, ORF is back in summer 2020, even though it again is Sunday only. Also, IND is again on the schedule for next summer - daily. HNL and OGG service continues at 1X daily next summer and SJC also remains at a staggering 16 daily r/t! (AS is offering 6X daily r/t so there should be no shortage of seats in that market!) Oh, and I'm glad to see ELP, OMA remain as daily routes, despite the competition (AS) dropping both.

Overall, not a terribly exciting sked release nor is it full of horrible news. AS has apparently chased WN off GEG. (WN stays on BOI while AS goes daily-double on the route.) No expansion of HI service to KOA or LIH is present.

IF the MAXs begin flying next summer, we might of course see changes/improvements in WN's offerings.

bb


I went back and re-read the story of AA 191 and the grounding of the DC-10...fascinating that less than two months passed for the DC-10 - and nearly killed McDonnell Douglas - but the MAX stays grounded for month after month, and we all just wistfully wonder when it will return. How the world has changed.

Back on topic: once those MAX's are back, yes, we will see many less-than-daily routes return. Does WN have any other 737's on order?

And a further question: how does anyone compete against a p2p route against Southwest? Certain routes, I can understand, but Omaha? That didn't even survive ExpressJet - now there are/were two carriers?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:13 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I went back and re-read the story of AA 191 and the grounding of the DC-10...fascinating that less than two months passed for the DC-10 - and nearly killed McDonnell Douglas - but the MAX stays grounded for month after month, and we all just wistfully wonder when it will return. How the world has changed.


You're right! The DC-10 had several fatal crashes, but didn't stay grounded for long. It never fazed me to fly on the DC-10 despite their record, in fact, the DC-10 and the L-10-11 were my favorite widebodies.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:05 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I wish I felt as good as many about the CBX but I keep coming back to the idea that it is now -- and will prolly continue to -- affect SAN's int'l travel numbers, And I think that 's a shame. And eventually, not just Mexico (from SDIA) will be further affected, but Central and S. America and perhaps Asia and even Europe as well. But the CBX is there, so that's just the way things go.


Looking at this the other way, CBX helps relieve the pressure on SAN. Since none of the ideas for a replacement airport seem likely to go anywhere, we're stuck with Lindbergh which will, sooner or later, become capacity constrained with only one runway and nowhere to put another. Having some of the traffic use TIJ instead buys SAN more time.

I haven't personally had a reason to use TIJ/CBX, and while SAN would still be my first choice, TIJ would still be preferable to heading up to LAX, especially if they're able to build the bypass so that CBX-bound international arrivals can skip Mexican immigration.


As a native-born, lifelong resident of San Diego, let me tell you: I'm convinced I won't live to see the day a new airport is built and opens for business. Even if all of the politicians woke up tomorrow magically agreeing that it needs to get built, it will take decades just for the environmental impact report to get approved. The La Jolla area folks (mostly), savvy and well-funded, will throw monkeywrenches into the obvious build-it-at-Miramar idea. Of course they'll bring up the vote back in 2006 to explore that possibility as having settled the issue. But as the City grows around Miramar, it'll become more obvious that the base should be moved to El Centro or somewhere else inland. There will also be more pressure to move the airport as traffic on Harbor Drive to Grape Street to the I-5 gets worse. I don't buy into the idea people will use the proposed Grand Central Station public transportation hub as long as ridesharing is around.

At least the owners of CBX and TIJ airport are trying to built an alternative to San Diego or LAX. Of course they're looking at making profit in bridge tolls. But let me tell ya, I gladly pay the $30 round trip to avoid the drama of crossing the border on foot. I know they're trying to make it so that people also gladly pay the toll to avoid going through LAX from Asia or Europe. The US customs and immigration people there are much more relaxed and less intense than the people at LAX or any other major US gateway airport.

In a different thread in the "travel polls" section, I brought up the possibility of TIJ being used for flights back into the US. It would effectively be cabotage. I think that may be part of Volaris' long-term vision. So they're looking to profit as well. That's probably one of the reasons they set up a maintenance base at TIJ.

Here's a relatively recent article about the current CBX bridge with good pictures. https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cross-bo ... a-airport/ You should give it a try. I've scored round trip to Cancun for less than $200. But you can fly to Mexico City for dirt cheap out of TIJ. Lots of awesome pyramids and museums to see there.


GAP, which owns TJ airport, is going to spend 24 billion pesos, which is about 1.3 billion dollars, on upgrading their 12 airports. One article says, "At Tijuana airport, the group will construct a building to process international passengers. The building will be an extension of the Cross Border Xpress, the world's first binational airport terminal connecting Tijuana and San Diego".

Emirates flies into Mexico City now. Maybe they'll consider flying into TJ someday?

https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/airp ... port-plans

https://www.elsoldetijuana.com.mx/finan ... 80378.html (newspaper article in Spanish)
 
ericm2031
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:18 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Reading the WN schedule extension sounds like SAN-GEG is getting permanently cut.

Flyguy

You just beat me to it.

Yes, some other findings I stumbled on: MKE service doesn't show up for next summer; last summer (2019) WN flew the route once weekly so I'm calling that another dropped route. TPA is not on the schedule but it was not for this last summer either; it remains an on-and-off route...

In more positive news, ORF is back in summer 2020, even though it again is Sunday only. Also, IND is again on the schedule for next summer - daily. HNL and OGG service continues at 1X daily next summer and SJC also remains at a staggering 16 daily r/t! (AS is offering 6X daily r/t so there should be no shortage of seats in that market!) Oh, and I'm glad to see ELP, OMA remain as daily routes, despite the competition (AS) dropping both.

Overall, not a terribly exciting sked release nor is it full of horrible news. AS has apparently chased WN off GEG. (WN stays on BOI while AS goes daily-double on the route.) No expansion of HI service to KOA or LIH is present.

IF the MAXs begin flying next summer, we might of course see changes/improvements in WN's offerings.

bb


I went back and re-read the story of AA 191 and the grounding of the DC-10...fascinating that less than two months passed for the DC-10 - and nearly killed McDonnell Douglas - but the MAX stays grounded for month after month, and we all just wistfully wonder when it will return. How the world has changed.

Back on topic: once those MAX's are back, yes, we will see many less-than-daily routes return. Does WN have any other 737's on order?

And a further question: how does anyone compete against a p2p route against Southwest? Certain routes, I can understand, but Omaha? That didn't even survive ExpressJet - now there are/were two carriers?


No, just MAXs on order. They wanted to stick to just new build -800NGs. And with the grounding, used birds are hard to come by except for ones that were already committed to being retired before the grounding (i.e. WN to UA -700s)
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:25 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Emirates flies into Mexico City now. Maybe they'll consider flying into TJ someday?


I highly doubt that.
 
BML87
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:38 pm

Swoop will be trying YEG-SAN again, this time in the summer.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:06 pm

BML87 wrote:
Swoop will be trying YEG-SAN again, this time in the summer.

Yes! I hope it happens this time. The delay from the announcement earlier this year for service to begin this year was apparently due to the MAX grounding.

Also, as a reminder, Abbotsford B.C. was originally announced as well but has apparently been dropped for the expansion of next summer. It appears the YEG-service will start next April; the service is supposed to last into October. So seasonal I guess.

Here's the link to the Swoop article/announcement:
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/s ... 60825.html

So two new Canadian cx next year with a total of 2 new nonstop routes from SAN! I like that!

bb
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:07 am

BML87 wrote:
Swoop will be trying YEG-SAN again, this time in the summer.


Service is set to begin May 8 with a 737-800. It will run twice weekly on Fridays and Sundays through June 12. The following week, Swoop will add a third flight on Tuesdays. Tuesday service ends for the season October 13. All service ends October 23. Air Transat begins its service June 15.

I share your excitement for the new Canadian service in 2020! Let's hope Swoop doesn't delay until 2021.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Here's a rendering of the new international terminal at TIJ clearly meant to benefit San Diego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers (also shows the staircase for people going southbound on the right side) and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points people get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration.

Some of the corridor from the gates and the international baggage carousel already exist. Most of the construction should be east of the staircase on the TJ side of the CBX bridge that leads to mexican immigration and customs. There's a bus station and an Oxxo convenience store there that'll get demolished. Here's a streetview facing west: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5461355 ... 312!8i6656 I think the staircase is the black tower.

OK. It's unlikely I'll get an Emirates flight. But if I can get one flight to Europe or South America without San Diego or LAX transportation hassles on travel day, I'll be made happy.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:42 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Here's a rendering of the new international terminal at TIJ clearly meant to benefit San Diego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers (also shows the staircase for people going southbound on the right side) and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points people get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration.

Some of the corridor from the gates and the international baggage carousel already exist. Most of the construction should be east of the staircase on the TJ side of the CBX bridge that leads to mexican immigration and customs. There's a bus station and an Oxxo convenience store there that'll get demolished. Here's a streetview facing west: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5461355 ... 312!8i6656 I think the staircase is the black tower.

OK. It's unlikely I'll get an Emirates flight. But if I can get one flight to Europe or South America without San Diego or LAX transportation hassles on travel day, I'll be made happy.


That's a beautiful video! Thank you for sharing.

It's a bit confusing, however, at least to me. Was it supposed to be showing what is already there? Or is it to showcase something new? I wish it had more details, even in Spanish.

Question for the a.net readers: should TIJ have its own airport thread for 2020? It's gone from an entirely domestic airport servicing primarily VFR Mexicans and Mexican-Americans to San Diego and Southern California''s Latin America airport, and the expansion plans (and mind-boggling possibilities!) might prove incredibly interesting.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:43 pm

cheapflier wrote:
[Swoop] Service is set to begin May 8 with a 737-800. It will run twice weekly on Fridays and Sundays through June 12. The following week, Swoop will add a third flight on Tuesdays. Tuesday service ends for the season October 13. All service ends October 23. Air Transat begins its service June 15.

I share your excitement for the new Canadian service in 2020! Let's hope Swoop doesn't delay until 2021.

Thanks for the details, cheap'. It's a fairly conservative beginning but hopefully they will do well with it and we will eventually see perhaps year-round service which both LAS and PHX (at AZA airport) see, and I'd love to see added service to Winnipeg (YWG) and even Abbotsford (YXX) (since they apparently planned that route originally.) YXX is a secondary airport east of YVR.

I love the fact that SAN is the first - and only at this point - west coast (U.S.) city selected by Swoop! That means we beat out lots of major competition for the honor.

For the photographers here, it looks like the May schedules will see WO on the ground at SDIA between about 10:30 and 11:15am - should be some good foto ops.

I'll be watching to see if SAN.org announces the service again, as they did after the first announcement of service in July of this year before having to remove it when the plans were scraped. They prolly don't want to be stung twice! And besides, AFAIK, SDIA never did announce Air Transat's service to YUL at all.

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:35 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Here's a rendering of the new international terminal at TIJ clearly meant to benefit San Diego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers (also shows the staircase for people going southbound on the right side) and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points people get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration.

Some of the corridor from the gates and the international baggage carousel already exist. Most of the construction should be east of the staircase on the TJ side of the CBX bridge that leads to mexican immigration and customs. There's a bus station and an Oxxo convenience store there that'll get demolished. Here's a streetview facing west: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5461355 ... 312!8i6656 I think the staircase is the black tower.

OK. It's unlikely I'll get an Emirates flight. But if I can get one flight to Europe or South America without San Diego or LAX transportation hassles on travel day, I'll be made happy.


That's a beautiful video! Thank you for sharing.

It's a bit confusing, however, at least to me. Was it supposed to be showing what is already there? Or is it to showcase something new? I wish it had more details, even in Spanish.

Question for the a.net readers: should TIJ have its own airport thread for 2020? It's gone from an entirely domestic airport servicing primarily VFR Mexicans and Mexican-Americans to San Diego and Southern California''s Latin America airport, and the expansion plans (and mind-boggling possibilities!) might prove incredibly interesting.


The video is for a new, international terminal area that'll be added on the east side of TIJ airport. But there's already a small portion of it already built.

The architecture firm, Estudio Lamela, has experience designing airport terminals in Amsterdam and Madrid. The video is about a year old so the design might be further along. But the airport owners probably already did some planning, number crunching, and have recently announced funding to move the project forward. Their goal is to have an "in-transit" area for people going onto or coming off international flights. That way they don't have to go through Mexican customs and immigration for the little time they'll be on Mexican soil. The passengers would only be screened by US customs and immigration going northbound (and perhaps southbound too?).

Little information is available but what I find on Mexican news outlets I'll share here with my airliners.net friends. I'm not sure what the CBX and GAP private companies are planning exactly but they do run on a profit motive. Their bridge has proven to be a big success. Why not get some more money out of it somehow with international travelers? But I'm guessing flights back into the US on Volaris may also be in the very long-term plans. There was a separate thread to explore that possibility under the "travel" forum. What'll stop San Diegans from catching a TIJ to JFK flight, for example, on a Mexican carrier in the future? I'm guessing nuthin'. Or what about catching a Cubana flight to Havana? (I'm not that brave though).

Early on, before the CBX bridge was built, there was criticism coming from TJ folks that it only benefited San Diego and hurt the taxi drivers. That's true. They do get more aircraft noise with little benefit for their city. But cities further south have gotten more tourists because of the bridge. San Diego has gotten more shoppers and visitors too. Crossing the border used to take almost as long as the flight coming from central Mexico. The CBX company tried to please TJ by including an option that southbound passengers can use the bridge 24 hours before a flight to check out TJ restaurants and hotels. But I seriously doubt many people are using that option.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:46 am

blacksoviet wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP.


ASAP isn't going to happen. Construction hasn't even started, and NAVWAR has to have its new facility built and moved in before the existing facility inside the old Convair hangars can be demolished to make way for the Grand Central terminal.

Are the Convair hangars historic? Will the preservationists try to block some of these hangars from being demolished? When were these hangars built? Are these the same hangars that were used to build major sections of the MD-11s?


I think they built the B-24s there.


You have to understand the business model they are using is to have the developer build a complex including a Naval building in exchange for the land to build a big development. That resulted after about 5 years in the Manchester Pacific Gateway
https://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/

Pacific Gateway is 7 large buildings, one of which is a Naval Building built by Doug Manchester in exchange for the land to build the entire 7 building complex.

The problem is the land on the Pacific Highway near Old Town is not worth the fortune that the land was on Pacific Highway south of Broadway. The genie developer able to raise billions of dollars is not going to appear the way Doug Manchester appeared downtown.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:26 am

Here's a recent TV news interview with the director of TJ airport where he talks about the new building at the 1min30second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iswk3aXNcDI

But in summary, after converting all the metric units to english units and pesos to dollars:

- currently 9 million passengers a year but prepare airport for 18 million a year (keep in mind something like 50% will come from San Diego or southern California)
- cost is $95 million dollars
- 430,0000 square feet
- 4 stories
- goal is to have it open by second half of 2022
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:39 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Here's a recent TV news interview with the director of TJ airport where he talks about the new building at the 1min30second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iswk3aXNcDI

But in summary, after converting all the metric units to english units and pesos to dollars:

- currently 9 million passengers a year but prepare airport for 18 million a year (keep in mind something like 50% will come from San Diego or southern California)
- cost is $95 million dollars
- 430,0000 square feet
- 4 stories
- goal is to have it open by second half of 2022


Here's the PDF file from that presentation (in spanish): https://www.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/files ... 19_web.pdf
There's a rendering and a site plan on pages 67 and 68 of 96. There's also a picture of a Southwest jet taking off on the very last page. (foreshadowing?)

An article I found said they already started construction on December 15th. So a completion date of late 2022 seems plausible.
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:53 pm

I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:23 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:


Okay, more information please!! You piqued our curiosity, and inquiring minds want to know!! :D

Is this "ground refueling project" happening at all gates? Or just the main international gates? What is the purpose of it? And how could this lead to future tenants?

SO excited to know!
 
N1120A
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:49 pm

cheapflier wrote:
Curious if SAN is doing nighttime runway construction. I noticed UA cancelled some SFO-SAN routes last night because high winds delayed departure. One was delayed until morning along with a DL flight (JFK and DTW) citing a "curfew." At least three AS delayed flights (from SFO, BOS, EWR) diverted to LAX until morning. Usually dispatchers are supposed to know this info ahead of time, but given two airlines had to divert I'm wondering what's going on. Anyone have any insight?


!SAN 12/056 SAN RWY 09/27 CLSD THU FRI SAT TUE WED 0800-1300 1912120800-1912211300
CREATED: 11 Dec 2019 23:27:00
SOURCE: SAN

That is the relevant NOTAM. The runway is closed on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays from 0800z to 1300z (currently 0100 PST to 0600 PST) from December 12-21 (so we're in the middle of it).

Based on the other NOTAMS, it appears they are doing some lighting and NAV aid work.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:25 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:


Okay, more information please!! You piqued our curiosity, and inquiring minds want to know!! :D

Is this "ground refueling project" happening at all gates? Or just the main international gates? What is the purpose of it? And how could this lead to future tenants?

SO excited to know!


I'll keep digging! In other news, the airport is starting to advertise the upcoming Swoop flight through social media; so far on Facebook and Twitter.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:59 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:


Okay, more information please!! You piqued our curiosity, and inquiring minds want to know!! :D

Is this "ground refueling project" happening at all gates? Or just the main international gates? What is the purpose of it? And how could this lead to future tenants?

SO excited to know!


I'll keep digging! In other news, the airport is starting to advertise the upcoming Swoop flight through social media; so far on Facebook and Twitter.


Thanks, Lindy!
 
vedatil4
Posts: 176
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:15 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Here's a recent TV news interview with the director of TJ airport where he talks about the new building at the 1min30second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iswk3aXNcDI

But in summary, after converting all the metric units to english units and pesos to dollars:

- currently 9 million passengers a year but prepare airport for 18 million a year (keep in mind something like 50% will come from San Diego or southern California)
- cost is $95 million dollars
- 430,0000 square feet
- 4 stories
- goal is to have it open by second half of 2022


Here's the PDF file from that presentation (in spanish): https://www.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/files ... 19_web.pdf
There's a rendering and a site plan on pages 67 and 68 of 96. There's also a picture of a Southwest jet taking off on the very last page. (foreshadowing?)

An article I found said they already started construction on December 15th. So a completion date of late 2022 seems plausible.
\\

Interesting stuff I'd like to share:
Here's a powerpoint from a similar presentation in 2018: https://www.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/files ... 2018v7.pdf
on page 39 of 66 there's a picture of the international arrival foyer that already exists for people coming off the flight from China. But more importantly, on page 47 of 66, there's a 3-D rough rendering of the international arrivals building, officially called, "Nuevo Edificio Procesador", PLUS a long hallway to the east to a NEW, mysterious future terminal C. I'm guessing that future terminal C could be used for connecting flights to cities in the US.

This is a forum (in Spanish) similar to airliners.net but out of TJ where people are following all of the developments:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... 7&page=232 Lots of interesting pictures there if you don't read spanish. There's already some construction happening.

Here's an article where the TJ airport director clearly mentions (in spanish) that the new "procesador" building is meant so that people coming off the China flights don't have to pass through Mexican customs or immigration both ways:
http://www.afntijuana.info/view_post.ph ... _capacidad

Lots of interesting flights could be set up in a few years time. :-)

I imagine practically all of the people coming off any future international flights into TJ will be heading to San Diego. So this is all for our benefit.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:05 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:

Okay, more information please!! You piqued our curiosity, and inquiring minds want to know!! :D

Is this "ground refueling project" happening at all gates? Or just the main international gates? What is the purpose of it? And how could this lead to future tenants?
SO excited to know!

I do remember a year or so ago the fuel project was mentioned; I believe it consists of extending the underground fuel delivery system over to the Green Build portion of T2 ( the west end.) I don't remember but it seems they did not install it when the terminal extension was built. I believe the system is already in place to all the rest of the terminal areas.

I'm a bit confused -- where/what is gate 50A? There didn't used to be such a thing -- there was 49, 50 and 51 (out at the end of the glass loading bridge.)

And I admit I have no idea why this underground fuel delivery system could hint to future tenants... Perhaps Korean, Philippine, or Panamanian airlines require special fuel that can't be delivered to their a/c by trucks? :) Sounds like you, LindyFlight, need to have another conversation with that ramper for some more details!

Please feel free to correct my errors or forgetfulness.

bb

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