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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:08 am

Some international carrier LFs from June '19 (peak season).

WS
YYC-SAN: 96%
SAN-YYC: 97%
YVR-SAN: 85%
SAN-YVR: 96%

RV (Air Canada Rouge)
YYZ-SAN: 93%
SAN-YYZ: 92%

QK (Air Canada Express; Jazz)
YVR-SAN: 77%
SAN-YVR: 90%

BA
LHR-SAN: 84%
SAN-LHR: 94%

JL
NRT-SAN: 90%
SAN-NRT: 89%

WK
ZRH-SAN: 52%
SAN-ZRH: 81%

LH
FRA-SAN: 80%
SAN-FRA: 91%

(Source: aviationdb.net)
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:21 am

SANFan wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
I was talking to one of the rampers that works T2W (probably mentioned before), gates 48-51 are scheduled to be out of commission in sequence for the airport's ground refueling project. 51 is out as of right now which is why BA and LH have been utilizing 50A. He thinks that these modifications could hint to future tenants. :scratchchin:

Okay, more information please!! You piqued our curiosity, and inquiring minds want to know!! :D

Is this "ground refueling project" happening at all gates? Or just the main international gates? What is the purpose of it? And how could this lead to future tenants?
SO excited to know!

I do remember a year or so ago the fuel project was mentioned; I believe it consists of extending the underground fuel delivery system over to the Green Build portion of T2 ( the west end.) I don't remember but it seems they did not install it when the terminal extension was built. I believe the system is already in place to all the rest of the terminal areas.

I'm a bit confused -- where/what is gate 50A? There didn't used to be such a thing -- there was 49, 50 and 51 (out at the end of the glass loading bridge.)

And I admit I have no idea why this underground fuel delivery system could hint to future tenants... Perhaps Korean, Philippine, or Panamanian airlines require special fuel that can't be delivered to their a/c by trucks? :) Sounds like you, LindyFlight, need to have another conversation with that ramper for some more details!

Please feel free to correct my errors or forgetfulness.
i
bb


Not a problem and i'll make sure to contact the ramper once again. If im not mistaken, Gate 50A is in between 48 and 51, basically 49 and 50 combined. When a widebody utilizes 50A, 49 and 50 are temporarily out of commision until 50A operations are complete.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:11 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Not a problem and i'll make sure to contact the ramper once again. If im not mistaken, Gate 50A is in between 48 and 51, basically 49 and 50 combined. When a widebody utilizes 50A, 49 and 50 are temporarily out of commision until 50A operations are complete.

Interesting. Seems a bit confusing to stick in an additional gate #; is there perhaps an additional jetbridge involved for a widebody?

But I sure would be curious to see what the ramper was talking about regarding "future tenants" as related to this fuel project.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
Interesting. Seems a bit confusing to stick in an additional gate #; is there perhaps an additional jetbridge involved for a widebody?


Hawaiian is using 50 for their departures (both the A330 to HNL and A321 to OGG) and their site shows the HNL flight as going from 50A, while OGG shows 50. I don't recall a distinction in the terminal when I went to HNL for Thanksgiving. I'm guessing there's a separate parking line on the ramp for 50A used by widebodies.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:49 pm

Google Maps Satellite view is showing us progress on T2W's underground construction:

Image

My screenshot+MSPaint work. I'm sure this information is a bit out of date, but at least it isn't completely disrupting International and/or widebody operations!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:01 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Hawaiian is using 50 for their departures (both the A330 to HNL and A321 to OGG) and their site shows the HNL flight as going from 50A, while OGG shows 50. I don't recall a distinction in the terminal when I went to HNL for Thanksgiving. I'm guessing there's a separate parking line on the ramp for 50A used by widebodies.

Thanx hawaiian'. I've got to get to the airside of SAN one of these days and see what things look like; I haven't been beyond security since the Green Build openhouse!

Speaking of beyond security, I see that SEA is going to allow non-pax to go thru security to the airside/gate areas, and for free! There are restrictions and there's a thread on the topic -- here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1436995
The thread is full of debate on whether it's a good idea or not. I happen to be on the "access for all" side of the arguments so therefore I sure wish SAN would follow suit.

And create us an observation deck on a terminal rooftop (or somewhere) while they're at it!

bb
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:47 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Here's the PDF file from that presentation (in spanish): https://www.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/files ... 19_web.pdf


.pdf page #24 says : Ampliación de plataforma y nueva calle de rodaje: 120 mdp

Does mdp mean "millones de pesos" ?
It seems "calle de rodaje" means taxiway, but I am not sure why.

It seems that 18 million annual passengers is a lot of passengers to go to airports in Mexico. Maybe they are planning to fly to other countries (USA, Spain or France, Central or South America).
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:18 pm

Yes, "mdp" stands for "millones de pesos".

They've already built an airplane parking lot, "plataforma", that'll be between the international arrivals gates and the future terminal C. I think the taxiway, "calle de rodaje', is shown at the bottom right. It enables planes to reach the airplane parking lot from the existing runway. Note that this portion of the presentation is reporting what was built during the last 5 years.

I think more tantalizing is the same presentation from year 2018 that I posted. It shows a very interesting 3D image of a long hallway from the in-transit building now being built, named "Nuevo Edificio Procesador", to a new terminal C that could be used for connecting flights.

Maybe I'm reading the tea leaves too much, but why did they show a picture of a Southwest plane taking off in one of their presentations? It's not like they don't have lots of pictures of Volaris or Interjet planes.

In theory Southwest could fly in-n-out of TJ while San Diego is under curfew. Maybe red eye flights to the east coast could leave at 1am-2am from there? Maybe people flying in from China or Central America will be able to connect to other places in the US?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:39 am

vedatil4 wrote:
Yes, "mdp" stands for "millones de pesos".

They've already built an airplane parking lot, "plataforma", that'll be between the international arrivals gates and the future terminal C. I think the taxiway, "calle de rodaje', is shown at the bottom right. It enables planes to reach the airplane parking lot from the existing runway. Note that this portion of the presentation is reporting what was built during the last 5 years.

I think more tantalizing is the same presentation from year 2018 that I posted. It shows a very interesting 3D image of a long hallway from the in-transit building now being built, named "Nuevo Edificio Procesador", to a new terminal C that could be used for connecting flights.

Maybe I'm reading the tea leaves too much, but why did they show a picture of a Southwest plane taking off in one of their presentations? It's not like they don't have lots of pictures of Volaris or Interjet planes.

In theory Southwest could fly in-n-out of TJ while San Diego is under curfew. Maybe red eye flights to the east coast could leave at 1am-2am from there? Maybe people flying in from China or Central America will be able to connect to other places in the US?


As exciting as that would be, Southwest would (a) have to do red-eyes, (b) pay for the usage at a secondary airport that might take away from SAN, and (c) deal with an airport that is in Mexico functioning as a domestic airport solely to operate red-eyes.

On the other hand, stranger things have happened, so only time will tell.
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:01 am

SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Not a problem and i'll make sure to contact the ramper once again. If im not mistaken, Gate 50A is in between 48 and 51, basically 49 and 50 combined. When a widebody utilizes 50A, 49 and 50 are temporarily out of commision until 50A operations are complete.

Interesting. Seems a bit confusing to stick in an additional gate #; is there perhaps an additional jetbridge involved for a widebody?

But I sure would be curious to see what the ramper was talking about regarding "future tenants" as related to this fuel project.

bb


I've got a response, "It comes down to incentivizing a customer to choose SAN as an alternate airport to LAX where measures are taken to facilitate a turnaround efficiently." So basically, any new airline must see that SAN is able to efficiently handle their aircraft at an equivalent level to major airports like LAX.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:08 am

LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:

Interesting. Seems a bit confusing to stick in an additional gate #; is there perhaps an additional jetbridge involved for a widebody?

But I sure would be curious to see what the ramper was talking about regarding "future tenants" as related to this fuel project.

bb


I've got a response, "It comes down to incentivizing a customer to choose SAN as an alternate airport to LAX where measures are taken to facilitate a turnaround efficiently." So basically, any new airline must see that SAN is able to efficiently handle their aircraft at an equivalent level to major airports like LAX.


Makes sense. SAN's marketing against LAX would show how efficiently they can serve tenants. I'm sure someone here can find more up-to-date statistics, but LAX had one of the worst taxi times in the nation while SAN had some of the best. In 2016 LAX was 16 minutes outbound and 12 minutes inbound compared to SAN at 15 minutes outbound and 4 minutes inbound.

At LAX, BA schedules a 2:40 turn time for a 744. At SAN it's 2:05. LH schedules 2:15 for a 388 at SAN it's 1:45 (obviously massive difference in plane size, so more telling is that LH expects 27 minute taxi to runway vs 12 at SAN). Of course, we all know LAX is a bigger airport. Bigger airport means more traffic. The point is to show you can shave some time to make flights more efficient, which when combined with enough originating traffic, makes a case for starting service.

That said, efficiency isn't enough so I wouldn't read much into it beyond just good practice. Look at Ontario Airport, which attracted China Airlines. Like SAN, ONT can also claim to be more efficient than LAX. However the ONT-TPE never got much above 80% load factor and CI down-gauged to an A350 and eventually 5x weekly. Still a feat to poach a flight from LAX, but efficiently wasn't the sole factor.

Point being, the ground refueling is important to show we're serious, but not decisive.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:28 pm

cheapflier wrote:
That said, efficiency isn't enough so I wouldn't read much into it beyond just good practice. Look at Ontario Airport, which attracted China Airlines. Like SAN, ONT can also claim to be more efficient than LAX. However the ONT-TPE never got much above 80% load factor and CI down-gauged to an A350 and eventually 5x weekly. Still a feat to poach a flight from LAX, but efficiently wasn't the sole factor.


ONT-TPE is back to being a daily 777-300ER. One thing that seems to have helped the flight was moving it to a nighttime departure from ONT, this makes it an early morning arrival in TPE and facilitates onward connections. The original schedule had them arriving in the evening in TPE, with limited connection opportunities (I've flown LAX-TPE a few times on both CI and BR, on the afternoon flight with the same timing as ONT originally had, and there were only a couple of connecting destinations mentioned on landing). TPE is also a bit of a special case because there is a pretty large Taiwanese community out in that part of LA (Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar, etc.) such that ONT is more convenient than trying to cross LA to get to LAX.

It seemed a bit ambitious to me to start ONT with the big 777, but I suspected at the time that there were operational advantages to using common equipment to both LAX and ONT.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:18 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
But I sure would be curious to see what the ramper was talking about regarding "future tenants" as related to this fuel project.

bb

I've got a response, "It comes down to incentivizing a customer to choose SAN as an alternate airport to LAX where measures are taken to facilitate a turnaround efficiently." So basically, any new airline must see that SAN is able to efficiently handle their aircraft at an equivalent level to major airports like LAX.

Appreciate you getting back with the response.

I don't really see the reasoning though. I cant see any airline choosing SAN over any other airport because we might be a little more speedy (or efficient if you prefer) at turning a plane. To the best of my knowledge, the expected traffic is the main driver in which airport a carrier selects for new service. Maybe concessions/incentives/subsidies (read: cost of serving an airport) are the second most important factor airlines consider. But whether it takes 2 hours or 2 hours 15 minutes to turn an int'l arrival would presumable be way down the list of considerations.

Besides, if an airline IS looking for ranking of an airport's facilities as an important factor, SAN, with our brand new, large, state-of-the-art FIS facilities would probably help SAN's case more than whether fuel delivery is hidden underground or not. That's my thinking anyway.

All that being said, I must remember that both Air Transat and Swoop seem to have selected SAN over LAX! (Who knows, maybe they both heard about our project?) And of course neither should care about our FIS facilities either...

But seriously, it certainly can't hurt for SAN to has as much state-of-the-art infrastructure as possible but I still wish T1 replacement were our airport's FIRST (and only?) priority!

bb
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:03 am

SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
But I sure would be curious to see what the ramper was talking about regarding "future tenants" as related to this fuel project.

bb

I've got a response, "It comes down to incentivizing a customer to choose SAN as an alternate airport to LAX where measures are taken to facilitate a turnaround efficiently." So basically, any new airline must see that SAN is able to efficiently handle their aircraft at an equivalent level to major airports like LAX.

Appreciate you getting back with the response.

I don't really see the reasoning though. I cant see any airline choosing SAN over any other airport because we might be a little more speedy (or efficient if you prefer) at turning a plane. To the best of my knowledge, the expected traffic is the main driver in which airport a carrier selects for new service. Maybe concessions/incentives/subsidies (read: cost of serving an airport) are the second most important factor airlines consider. But whether it takes 2 hours or 2 hours 15 minutes to turn an int'l arrival would presumable be way down the list of considerations.

Besides, if an airline IS looking for ranking of an airport's facilities as an important factor, SAN, with our brand new, large, state-of-the-art FIS facilities would probably help SAN's case more than whether fuel delivery is hidden underground or not. That's my thinking anyway.

All that being said, I must remember that both Air Transat and Swoop seem to have selected SAN over LAX! (Who knows, maybe they both heard about our project?) And of course neither should care about our FIS facilities either...

But seriously, it certainly can't hurt for SAN to has as much state-of-the-art infrastructure as possible but I still wish T1 replacement were our airport's FIRST (and only?) priority!

bb


Respect your thinking but again, it's from the ramper's perspective. They may not be Ms. Becker or Mr. Brown or any other Authority Board member so their perspective may not parallel the airport's or your's.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:33 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Respect your thinking but again, it's from the ramper's perspective. They may not be Ms. Becker or Mr. Brown or any other Authority Board member so their perspective may not parallel the airport's or your's.

Oh absolutely, and I respect his/her opinion.

I am curious why the fuel delivery system wasn't installed when the terminal extension was being built? Seems it would have been relatively easy to lay all those pipes BEFORE the tarmac was laid; maybe it was a cost-saving matter -- keeping the price of the Green Build nice and low -- but of course it's a pretty good guess that it's costing a whole lot more to be doing it now, after the fact. Plus the disruption of having to close gates temporarily, etc. I'm sure there were lots of factors involved that those of us on the outside are not privy to -- like always.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:55 pm

So here's my question: how do planes get fueled at SAN now? Are the other gates at T2 and T1 underground-supplied?
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:49 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
So here's my question: how do planes get fueled at SAN now? Are the other gates at T2 and T1 underground-supplied?

Most planes are refueled by truck. Not sure if Menzies has the exclusive or if there's another contractor, but I've only seen the Menzies crew.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:09 am

cheapflier wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
So here's my question: how do planes get fueled at SAN now? Are the other gates at T2 and T1 underground-supplied?

Most planes are refueled by truck. Not sure if Menzies has the exclusive or if there's another contractor, but I've only seen the Menzies crew.


Thanks for the information! I thought as much, but it's one of those things that is done out of sight and out of mind. Perhaps the underground fueling for larger quantities makes the construction project worth the headaches.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:28 pm

Here's an update on AS's skeds for next summer (based on yesterday's OAG thread by Enilria.) Not a lot of good news in fact. However, we do need to keep in mind that none of this is permanently locked in yet so some things might change before next May - maybe getting worse or possibly better.

>Another SAN dropped destination: SLC. I'm calling this a permanent change, not seasonal. This market has been up and down for AS since it started years ago when AS jumped into SLC iin June 2014, presumably to impact DL at one of their hubs. They started with 8 routes from Utah, and it looks like they will be down to only 3 next summer - SEA, PDX & SFO. (LA-SLC is also being dropped.) But I blame this as much on WN entering the SAN-SLC market (in 2017) as on anything DL has done in retaliation. WN is now double-daily in the market while AS has gradually whittled away their presence in the market to mostly a single EMJ with timing of the r/t changing frequently. Not really a great loss except that it means AS has recently dropped 8 routes from SAN's route map: DAL, ABQ, OMA, STL, MSP, ELP, MCI & SLC.

>BWI seems confirmed as a seasonal route. In 2020 it apparently will now operate only from late May thru mid-August. Who knows if it'll be back in 2021 or not. (I do not yet consider this a cancelled route so I'm not adding it to the sad List of Eight above.) I still don't understand AS's plan here with an important market such as DC barely being served.

>SMF is being trimmed back to 3x daily r/t next summer, all EMJs. This is also a head-scratcher for me; AS seems to be slowly ceding to WN in this market as well. Not impressive.

>There are 2 positives to report: FAT is increasing to 4x daily r/t and SFO will increase to 8 daily flights even though they will all op with EMJs. SJC is also going to all EMJs while remaining at 6 daily r/t. AS seems to be increasing SAN-SEA to 9 daily r/t, perhaps permanently.

I'm not quite sure what is going on with AS at SAN. There sure seem to be a lot more negatives than positives lately from the #2 carrier at SDIA. I wouldn't say (yet) that our focus city status is in jeopardy but AS seems totally re-committed to SEA to the detriment of some of their other system-wide growth areas, including SAN. I hope that as they reach complete saturation at SEA/TAC, perhaps this trend will be reversed and we will see more expansion at our airport.

bb
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:31 pm

SANFan wrote:
Here's an update on AS's skeds for next summer (based on yesterday's OAG thread by Enilria.) Not a lot of good news in fact. However, we do need to keep in mind that none of this is permanently locked in yet so some things might change before next May - maybe getting worse or possibly better.

>Another SAN dropped destination: SLC. I'm calling this a permanent change, not seasonal. This market has been up and down for AS since it started years ago when AS jumped into SLC iin June 2014, presumably to impact DL at one of their hubs. They started with 8 routes from Utah, and it looks like they will be down to only 3 next summer - SEA, PDX & SFO. (LA-SLC is also being dropped.) But I blame this as much on WN entering the SAN-SLC market (in 2017) as on anything DL has done in retaliation. WN is now double-daily in the market while AS has gradually whittled away their presence in the market to mostly a single EMJ with timing of the r/t changing frequently. Not really a great loss except that it means AS has recently dropped 8 routes from SAN's route map: DAL, ABQ, OMA, STL, MSP, ELP, MCI & SLC.

>BWI seems confirmed as a seasonal route. In 2020 it apparently will now operate only from late May thru mid-August. Who knows if it'll be back in 2021 or not. (I do not yet consider this a cancelled route so I'm not adding it to the sad List of Eight above.) I still don't understand AS's plan here with an important market such as DC barely being served.

>SMF is being trimmed back to 3x daily r/t next summer, all EMJs. This is also a head-scratcher for me; AS seems to be slowly ceding to WN in this market as well. Not impressive.

>There are 2 positives to report: FAT is increasing to 4x daily r/t and SFO will increase to 8 daily flights even though they will all op with EMJs. SJC is also going to all EMJs while remaining at 6 daily r/t. AS seems to be increasing SAN-SEA to 9 daily r/t, perhaps permanently.

I'm not quite sure what is going on with AS at SAN. There sure seem to be a lot more negatives than positives lately from the #2 carrier at SDIA. I wouldn't say (yet) that our focus city status is in jeopardy but AS seems totally re-committed to SEA to the detriment of some of their other system-wide growth areas, including SAN. I hope that as they reach complete saturation at SEA/TAC, perhaps this trend will be reversed and we will see more expansion at our airport.

bb


I put in my opinion on this in the OAG thread, for what it’s worth.
 
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:50 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Yes, "mdp" stands for "millones de pesos".

They've already built an airplane parking lot, "plataforma", that'll be between the international arrivals gates and the future terminal C. I think the taxiway, "calle de rodaje', is shown at the bottom right. It enables planes to reach the airplane parking lot from the existing runway. Note that this portion of the presentation is reporting what was built during the last 5 years.

I think more tantalizing is the same presentation from year 2018 that I posted. It shows a very interesting 3D image of a long hallway from the in-transit building now being built, named "Nuevo Edificio Procesador", to a new terminal C that could be used for connecting flights.

Maybe I'm reading the tea leaves too much, but why did they show a picture of a Southwest plane taking off in one of their presentations? It's not like they don't have lots of pictures of Volaris or Interjet planes.

In theory Southwest could fly in-n-out of TJ while San Diego is under curfew. Maybe red eye flights to the east coast could leave at 1am-2am from there? Maybe people flying in from China or Central America will be able to connect to other places in the US?


As exciting as that would be, Southwest would (a) have to do red-eyes, (b) pay for the usage at a secondary airport that might take away from SAN, and (c) deal with an airport that is in Mexico functioning as a domestic airport solely to operate red-eyes.

On the other hand, stranger things have happened, so only time will tell.


And the US pax would have to clear customs twice to board the flight, clear when they get to whatever US destination they are headed to (because WN can’t go anywhere else due to cabotage restrictions), clear to leave that destination, then clear customs twice to get back to the US. Never going to happen, ever.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:14 pm

SANFan wrote:
Here's an update on AS's skeds for next summer (based on yesterday's OAG thread by Enilria.) Not a lot of good news in fact. However, we do need to keep in mind that none of this is permanently locked in yet so some things might change before next May - maybe getting worse or possibly better.

>Another SAN dropped destination: SLC. I'm calling this a permanent change, not seasonal. This market has been up and down for AS since it started years ago when AS jumped into SLC iin June 2014, presumably to impact DL at one of their hubs. They started with 8 routes from Utah, and it looks like they will be down to only 3 next summer - SEA, PDX & SFO. (LA-SLC is also being dropped.) But I blame this as much on WN entering the SAN-SLC market (in 2017) as on anything DL has done in retaliation. WN is now double-daily in the market while AS has gradually whittled away their presence in the market to mostly a single EMJ with timing of the r/t changing frequently. Not really a great loss except that it means AS has recently dropped 8 routes from SAN's route map: DAL, ABQ, OMA, STL, MSP, ELP, MCI & SLC.


As much as I am in favor of competition, I never understood these. Other than DAL and perhaps MSP, none of these markets is extraordinarily high-yielding enough to really support a non-stop by anyone other than Southwest. WN can route passengers through those cities, if needed, with a mix of onward connections and local demand, but AS has to rely entirely on O&D.

>BWI seems confirmed as a seasonal route. In 2020 it apparently will now operate only from late May thru mid-August. Who knows if it'll be back in 2021 or not. (I do not yet consider this a cancelled route so I'm not adding it to the sad List of Eight above.) I still don't understand AS's plan here with an important market such as DC barely being served.


One that should have worked, but didn't because of WN and its east coast operations. DCA is still, eternally, off limits to SAN, and IAD is locked up with United (didn't Southwest try SAN-IAD and fail?). Again, connections and O&D traffic outweigh 100% O&D it would seem.

>SMF is being trimmed back to 3x daily r/t next summer, all EMJs. This is also a head-scratcher for me; AS seems to be slowly ceding to WN in this market as well. Not impressive.


I always wonder if Southwest's no-change fee kills off competition on intra-California routes. SO much traffic flies between the north and the south, and much of it corporate & business. Friends of mine here in SD have flown for years to/from the bay area, and their own corporate-version of Southwest.com allows them to book via the company website. I know this isn't really a new thing; however, given how frequently things change in business, more than one has said, "if we had to pay a change fee every time plans change, the company would be out of business". Southwest gives tremendous flexibility and frequency to its customers, and AS can't match that.

However, their expansion into zero-competition airports is going very well! SBP comes on line in a couple of weeks, and FAT is expanding. These out of the way airports that aren't really that easy to reach otherwise seem to be where AS needs to put its planes. If we could just get BFL as well, I'd be all set!!

I'm not quite sure what is going on with AS at SAN. There sure seem to be a lot more negatives than positives lately from the #2 carrier at SDIA. I wouldn't say (yet) that our focus city status is in jeopardy but AS seems totally re-committed to SEA to the detriment of some of their other system-wide growth areas, including SAN. I hope that as they reach complete saturation at SEA/TAC, perhaps this trend will be reversed and we will see more expansion at our airport.


I think there's an attempted coup going on in slow motion in Seattle. One group is committed to expanding AS to its fullest extent and ensuring its long-term viability. The other group is committed to short-term gains, securing wage concessions across the board, and giving themselves golden parachutes & enormous bonuses for a "job well done" when the airline enters bankruptcy. I hope for better things for AS than being stuck in limbo like it is, but I can't affect the outcome.
 
vedatil4
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:46 pm

DL717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Yes, "mdp" stands for "millones de pesos".

They've already built an airplane parking lot, "plataforma", that'll be between the international arrivals gates and the future terminal C. I think the taxiway, "calle de rodaje', is shown at the bottom right. It enables planes to reach the airplane parking lot from the existing runway. Note that this portion of the presentation is reporting what was built during the last 5 years.

I think more tantalizing is the same presentation from year 2018 that I posted. It shows a very interesting 3D image of a long hallway from the in-transit building now being built, named "Nuevo Edificio Procesador", to a new terminal C that could be used for connecting flights.

Maybe I'm reading the tea leaves too much, but why did they show a picture of a Southwest plane taking off in one of their presentations? It's not like they don't have lots of pictures of Volaris or Interjet planes.

In theory Southwest could fly in-n-out of TJ while San Diego is under curfew. Maybe red eye flights to the east coast could leave at 1am-2am from there? Maybe people flying in from China or Central America will be able to connect to other places in the US?


As exciting as that would be, Southwest would (a) have to do red-eyes, (b) pay for the usage at a secondary airport that might take away from SAN, and (c) deal with an airport that is in Mexico functioning as a domestic airport solely to operate red-eyes.

On the other hand, stranger things have happened, so only time will tell.


And the US pax would have to clear customs twice to board the flight, clear when they get to whatever US destination they are headed to (because WN can’t go anywhere else due to cabotage restrictions), clear to leave that destination, then clear customs twice to get back to the US. Never going to happen, ever.


I realize Southwest or any other US airline flying out of TJ to take advantage of not having a curfew is a super-stretch of the imagination. But I think a Mexican carrier may be OK taking US passengers who walked across the border or passengers arriving on flights from China to cities in the US. I think that's the long-term goal the TIJ airport owners have in mind.

Going southbound, is Mexico obligated to perform immigration and customs checks on US or Chinese nationals kept in a restricted area, who didn't officially enter their country, when getting onto aircraft headed to the US? I don't know. I think they just need to make sure they have passports on them as they board the flights. Lots of strange flight & nationalities scenarios need to be considered it seems.

I posed the following, effectively cabotage, possibility in a different forum thread. I'd love to catch a 1am TIJ-to-JFK flight on Volaris for example. I'd rather not deal with Mexican officials while exercising the option. That's CBX's bottleneck in their operations. You get across southbound quickly only to be put in a long immigration line on the Mexican side.

The construction work on the new terminal building has already started. So we may start seeing strange flights come late 2022 or early 2023.

My hats off to Hainan Airlines for flying a dreamliner from Beijing to Tijuana way before anyone else. That seemed a laughable idea a few years back. I don't think they'll be last airline to effectively fly to the US by landing in TJ.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:01 am

What is the condition of the 747SP on the ramp at TIJ?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
What is the condition of the 747SP on the ramp at TIJ?


Is it still there? For one thing, it has been sitting at TIJ since 2005, my guess it will never fly again.
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:03 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
What is the condition of the 747SP on the ramp at TIJ?


Is it still there? For one thing, it has been sitting at TIJ since 2005, my guess it will never fly again.

Who owns the plane? Can it be sold to Iran Air to replace EP-IAC?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:47 am

blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
What is the condition of the 747SP on the ramp at TIJ?


Is it still there? For one thing, it has been sitting at TIJ since 2005, my guess it will never fly again.

Who owns the plane? Can it be sold to Iran Air to replace EP-IAC?


The last thing I heard is that it needs a lot of work to be airworthy again. I doubt Iran Air would spend the money to get it flying again. The 747SP is likely destined for the scrapheap, Iran Air would most likely use their money to order new A320s instead of fixing up an old 747SP. The plane belonged to "Global Peace Ambassadors". It was abandoned there in 2005.
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:46 am

Just wanted to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! In about a week now it'll be time to start the next thread to take us through 2020.

Enjoy the season all!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:49 am

SANFan wrote:
Just wanted to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! In about a week now it'll be time to start the next thread to take us through 2020.

Enjoy the season all!

bb

The same to you Bob!
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:44 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:

Is it still there? For one thing, it has been sitting at TIJ since 2005, my guess it will never fly again.

Who owns the plane? Can it be sold to Iran Air to replace EP-IAC?


The last thing I heard is that it needs a lot of work to be airworthy again. I doubt Iran Air would spend the money to get it flying again. The 747SP is likely destined for the scrapheap, Iran Air would most likely use their money to order new A320s instead of fixing up an old 747SP. The plane belonged to "Global Peace Ambassadors". It was abandoned there in 2005.

Such a shame. I was hoping that maybe Iran Air could use the parts from their other SPs to get this one flying for a couple more years. It was only built in 1982 or 1983. Maybe the Mexican government can seize it and donate it to a museum.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:20 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Such a shame. I was hoping that maybe Iran Air could use the parts from their other SPs to get this one flying for a couple more years. It was only built in 1982 or 1983. Maybe the Mexican government can seize it and donate it to a museum.


Is it stll parked at TIJ? I would have thought it would have been scrapped by now. There were incidents with this same aircraft when it was still in active service with China Airlines. In 1985, it plunged 30,000 ft when the #4 engine shut down in mid-flight. There was so much work needed on this aircraft that Flight Attendants called it a "Flying deathtrap".
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:45 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Such a shame. I was hoping that maybe Iran Air could use the parts from their other SPs to get this one flying for a couple more years. It was only built in 1982 or 1983. Maybe the Mexican government can seize it and donate it to a museum.


Is it stll parked at TIJ? I would have thought it would have been scrapped by now. There were incidents with this same aircraft when it was still in active service with China Airlines. In 1985, it plunged 30,000 ft when the #4 engine shut down in mid-flight. There was so much work needed on this aircraft that Flight Attendants called it a "Flying deathtrap".


I saw it at TIJ in early 2017. I haven’t been there recently. You could barely see it from the 905 freeway. I don’t know if they have scrapping equipment at TIJ. It would be cool if they converted it into a fire tanker. I heard the pilots refused to fly it on a ferry flight in 2006 and called it a deathtrap too.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:29 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I saw it at TIJ in early 2017. I haven’t been there recently. You could barely see it from the 905 freeway. I don’t know if they have scrapping equipment at TIJ. It would be cool if they converted it into a fire tanker. I heard the pilots refused to fly it on a ferry flight in 2006 and called it a deathtrap too.


There was a 747 (KABO Air) that sat for many years at TIJ prior to the 747SP until it was finally scrapped. Maybe it costs too much money to have it scrapped, or they are using it for training purposes? I remember seeing it land at TIJ in 2005 in the cover of night, so it has been 14 years since it flew last.
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:15 pm

Happy Day-After-Christmas to everyone!!

BIG rain showers early this morning put SAN on reverse operations this morning, even for a while after it cleared up. I had hoped to get to several of the usual viewing locations in order to get some good video, but we're back to the normal 27 operations.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:42 am

blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Such a shame. I was hoping that maybe Iran Air could use the parts from their other SPs to get this one flying for a couple more years. It was only built in 1982 or 1983. Maybe the Mexican government can seize it and donate it to a museum.


Is it stll parked at TIJ? I would have thought it would have been scrapped by now. There were incidents with this same aircraft when it was still in active service with China Airlines. In 1985, it plunged 30,000 ft when the #4 engine shut down in mid-flight. There was so much work needed on this aircraft that Flight Attendants called it a "Flying deathtrap".


I saw it at TIJ in early 2017. I haven’t been there recently. You could barely see it from the 905 freeway. I don’t know if they have scrapping equipment at TIJ. It would be cool if they converted it into a fire tanker. I heard the pilots refused to fly it on a ferry flight in 2006 and called it a deathtrap too.


I was doing some work there over the summer of this year and saw it still parked. I'd be surprised if it could get an airworthiness certificate without an insane amount of work. Wonder who is paying the stand fees.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:02 pm

cheapflier wrote:

I was doing some work there over the summer of this year and saw it still parked. I'd be surprised if it could get an airworthiness certificate without an insane amount of work. Wonder who is paying the stand fees.


I know it needs lots of work done to it. It could be tied up in litigation and red tape because it was abandoned there in 2005, the pilots quit as soon as they landed it there. They probably don't know for sure what to do with it. I seriously doubt anyone would want to spend the money to make it airworthy again.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:01 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
cheapflier wrote:

I was doing some work there over the summer of this year and saw it still parked. I'd be surprised if it could get an airworthiness certificate without an insane amount of work. Wonder who is paying the stand fees.


I know it needs lots of work done to it. It could be tied up in litigation and red tape because it was abandoned there in 2005, the pilots quit as soon as they landed it there. They probably don't know for sure what to do with it. I seriously doubt anyone would want to spend the money to make it airworthy again.


Maybe they could tow the plane somewhere and turn it into a hotel or hostel? A company would have to step up and spend money on the idea though. :-( I could see it becoming an attraction in San Diego if a way is found to get it across the border.

There's a converted 747 hotel at Stockholm airport. The place is called "jumbostay". The cockpit suite sure looks great. That seemed like a successful venture.

The 747SP at TIJ almost crashed in the Pacific back in '85. It hobbled it's way to San Francisco when it was really headed to LA from Taipei. Look up Air China 006 on youtube to see the renderings.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:12 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
cheapflier wrote:

I was doing some work there over the summer of this year and saw it still parked. I'd be surprised if it could get an airworthiness certificate without an insane amount of work. Wonder who is paying the stand fees.


I know it needs lots of work done to it. It could be tied up in litigation and red tape because it was abandoned there in 2005, the pilots quit as soon as they landed it there. They probably don't know for sure what to do with it. I seriously doubt anyone would want to spend the money to make it airworthy again.


Maybe they could tow the plane somewhere and turn it into a hotel or hostel? A company would have to step up and spend money on the idea though. :-( I could see it becoming an attraction in San Diego if a way is found to get it across the border.

There's a converted 747 hotel at Stockholm airport. The place is called "jumbostay". The cockpit suite sure looks great. That seemed like a successful venture.

The 747SP at TIJ almost crashed in the Pacific back in '85. It hobbled it's way to San Francisco when it was really headed to LA from Taipei. Look up Air China 006 on youtube to see the renderings.

If a hole was cut into the border fence, they could put the plane on display next to CBX. Perhaps there is already a gate in the fence that is big enough for an airplane.
 
DLA330
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:29 pm

Ensenada Military agrees to El Tigre, but Ojos Negros could still be built as an airport as it is a private investment. While the governor is against it, some member now says that Ojos Negros is not canceled. Not sure who to believe but ESE is definitely being redeveloped into condos or some kind of entertainment district or something like that.

(Links in Spanish)
https://www.elvigia.net/general/2019/12 ... 39911.html
https://www.elvigia.net/general/2019/11 ... 39484.html
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:36 pm

The CBX developer was able to temporarily modify the border to put the bridge in. Maybe they get a temporary opening to the border for the 747 to roll through? The plane sits just 1200 feet south of the borderline. Going north from where it's located you have empty land, then four lanes of road, then the border fences. On the US side there's also empty land east of the existing parking lots.

This webpage has a lot of pictures of the plane:
https://www.747sp.com/ngg_tag/global-pe ... sadors/486

It looks like last November the grand dame was freshened up and towed to be used as a backdrop:
https://hiveminer.com/Tags/747%2Ctijuana/Recent

It's a shame a storied and rare "SP -Special Performance" 747 is sitting abandoned. Maybe a company with deep pockets will step up and rescue her from a sad fate?
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:52 pm

DLA330 wrote:
Ensenada Military agrees to El Tigre, but Ojos Negros could still be built as an airport as it is a private investment. While the governor is against it, some member now says that Ojos Negros is not canceled. Not sure who to believe but ESE is definitely being redeveloped into condos or some kind of entertainment district or something like that.

(Links in Spanish)
https://www.elvigia.net/general/2019/12 ... 39911.html
https://www.elvigia.net/general/2019/11 ... 39484.html


The existing El Cipres air force base has a long stretch of nice beach. Maybe they'll build resorts there. :-)

I was happy to read about upgrades for the road leading to Maneadero. There's too much traffic there now when I go to Las Canadas (best campground evah!).

The El Tigre site for a new airport seems a good location choice. It'll be close to the Guadalupe Valley, Rosarito, and Ensenada.

The Ojos Negros site seemed too far outside town. Maybe it will be built just for private aviation? My Spanish reading comprehension isn't 100%. Two new, nearby airports are always a good thing.
 
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:02 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

As exciting as that would be, Southwest would (a) have to do red-eyes, (b) pay for the usage at a secondary airport that might take away from SAN, and (c) deal with an airport that is in Mexico functioning as a domestic airport solely to operate red-eyes.

On the other hand, stranger things have happened, so only time will tell.


And the US pax would have to clear customs twice to board the flight, clear when they get to whatever US destination they are headed to (because WN can’t go anywhere else due to cabotage restrictions), clear to leave that destination, then clear customs twice to get back to the US. Never going to happen, ever.


I realize Southwest or any other US airline flying out of TJ to take advantage of not having a curfew is a super-stretch of the imagination. But I think a Mexican carrier may be OK taking US passengers who walked across the border or passengers arriving on flights from China to cities in the US. I think that's the long-term goal the TIJ airport owners have in mind.

Going southbound, is Mexico obligated to perform immigration and customs checks on US or Chinese nationals kept in a restricted area, who didn't officially enter their country, when getting onto aircraft headed to the US? I don't know. I think they just need to make sure they have passports on them as they board the flights. Lots of strange flight & nationalities scenarios need to be considered it seems.

I posed the following, effectively cabotage, possibility in a different forum thread. I'd love to catch a 1am TIJ-to-JFK flight on Volaris for example. I'd rather not deal with Mexican officials while exercising the option. That's CBX's bottleneck in their operations. You get across southbound quickly only to be put in a long immigration line on the Mexican side.

The construction work on the new terminal building has already started. So we may start seeing strange flights come late 2022 or early 2023.

My hats off to Hainan Airlines for flying a dreamliner from Beijing to Tijuana way before anyone else. That seemed a laughable idea a few years back. I don't think they'll be last airline to effectively fly to the US by landing in TJ.


You have to clear customs going out of and into the US. There is no free passage from the US into a facility that is in another country as there is nothing to stop you from just walking out of the airport.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:07 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
The CBX developer was able to temporarily modify the border to put the bridge in. Maybe they get a temporary opening to the border for the 747 to roll through? The plane sits just 1200 feet south of the borderline. Going north from where it's located you have empty land, then four lanes of road, then the border fences. On the US side there's also empty land east of the existing parking lots.

This webpage has a lot of pictures of the plane:
https://www.747sp.com/ngg_tag/global-pe ... sadors/486

It looks like last November the grand dame was freshened up and towed to be used as a backdrop:
https://hiveminer.com/Tags/747%2Ctijuana/Recent

It's a shame a storied and rare "SP -Special Performance" 747 is sitting abandoned. Maybe a company with deep pockets will step up and rescue her from a sad fate?

The plane is one of the last 747SPs off the line. It must have pretty good range. There is always a small chance that Max Air could buy it to add to their charter fleet. They already have several 747-300s in storage. They are the only airline outside of Iran that would consider buying this aircraft.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:24 pm

DL717 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

And the US pax would have to clear customs twice to board the flight, clear when they get to whatever US destination they are headed to (because WN can’t go anywhere else due to cabotage restrictions), clear to leave that destination, then clear customs twice to get back to the US. Never going to happen, ever.


I realize Southwest or any other US airline flying out of TJ to take advantage of not having a curfew is a super-stretch of the imagination. But I think a Mexican carrier may be OK taking US passengers who walked across the border or passengers arriving on flights from China to cities in the US. I think that's the long-term goal the TIJ airport owners have in mind.

Going southbound, is Mexico obligated to perform immigration and customs checks on US or Chinese nationals kept in a restricted area, who didn't officially enter their country, when getting onto aircraft headed to the US? I don't know. I think they just need to make sure they have passports on them as they board the flights. Lots of strange flight & nationalities scenarios need to be considered it seems.

I posed the following, effectively cabotage, possibility in a different forum thread. I'd love to catch a 1am TIJ-to-JFK flight on Volaris for example. I'd rather not deal with Mexican officials while exercising the option. That's CBX's bottleneck in their operations. You get across southbound quickly only to be put in a long immigration line on the Mexican side.

The construction work on the new terminal building has already started. So we may start seeing strange flights come late 2022 or early 2023.

My hats off to Hainan Airlines for flying a dreamliner from Beijing to Tijuana way before anyone else. That seemed a laughable idea a few years back. I don't think they'll be last airline to effectively fly to the US by landing in TJ.


You have to clear customs going out of and into the US. There is no free passage from the US into a facility that is in another country as there is nothing to stop you from just walking out of the airport.


I agree with you on the "into" but not entirely on the "out of" the US. Outbound inspections have been very few and far between. At San Ysidro and at the CBX I've seen booths for outbound traffic but I've never been questioned. The same goes for international gateway airports on the east coast.

To play devil's advocate only, what if during an outbound inspection I said I was heading to Mexico or Europe for general mischief? That I'm in the mood of becoming a one man crime spree. Can I be kept from leaving the country? Must I be on my best behavior when traveling outside the country? The outbound inspections seem like something that can be challenged.

I was questioned at Madrid airport before heading back to the US. That seemed fair. But I didn't appreciate being asked a bunch of questions without the person identifying themselves first.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:42 pm

DL717 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

And the US pax would have to clear customs twice to board the flight, clear when they get to whatever US destination they are headed to (because WN can’t go anywhere else due to cabotage restrictions), clear to leave that destination, then clear customs twice to get back to the US. Never going to happen, ever.


I realize Southwest or any other US airline flying out of TJ to take advantage of not having a curfew is a super-stretch of the imagination. But I think a Mexican carrier may be OK taking US passengers who walked across the border or passengers arriving on flights from China to cities in the US. I think that's the long-term goal the TIJ airport owners have in mind.

Going southbound, is Mexico obligated to perform immigration and customs checks on US or Chinese nationals kept in a restricted area, who didn't officially enter their country, when getting onto aircraft headed to the US? I don't know. I think they just need to make sure they have passports on them as they board the flights. Lots of strange flight & nationalities scenarios need to be considered it seems.

I posed the following, effectively cabotage, possibility in a different forum thread. I'd love to catch a 1am TIJ-to-JFK flight on Volaris for example. I'd rather not deal with Mexican officials while exercising the option. That's CBX's bottleneck in their operations. You get across southbound quickly only to be put in a long immigration line on the Mexican side.

The construction work on the new terminal building has already started. So we may start seeing strange flights come late 2022 or early 2023.

My hats off to Hainan Airlines for flying a dreamliner from Beijing to Tijuana way before anyone else. That seemed a laughable idea a few years back. I don't think they'll be last airline to effectively fly to the US by landing in TJ.


You have to clear customs going out of and into the US. There is no free passage from the US into a facility that is in another country as there is nothing to stop you from just walking out of the airport.


I wonder what happens with US passengers flying to Europe via Toronto. Are they being checked by US customs before flying there? Doesn't Canada have an "in-transit" lounge to keep Americans from leaving the airport with comic books depicting crime? (banned there. really) I think it's up to the Canadians or, on our southern border, Mexicans receiving passengers at their airports to make sure nobody sneaks out of their facilities without going through a customs check.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:19 am

blacksoviet wrote:
The plane is one of the last 747SPs off the line. It must have pretty good range. There is always a small chance that Max Air could buy it to add to their charter fleet. They already have several 747-300s in storage. They are the only airline outside of Iran that would consider buying this aircraft.


According to Wikipedia, Iran Air already retired their 747SPs. I'll bet with the money needed to make that 747SP airworthy again, airlines could use their money to buy a brand new 787Dreamliner, or an A330NEO.
Don't forget, the Sands Hotel in Las Vegas has two
747SPs that are airworthy parked at LAS. What airline would want to buy the "Global Peace Ambassadors"747SP despite it's track record? Trying to put that plane back into active service would be like trying to put a 707 back into service. Converting the plane into a hostel or a hotel would be a good idea.
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irelayer
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:20 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Happy Day-After-Christmas to everyone!!

BIG rain showers early this morning put SAN on reverse operations this morning, even for a while after it cleared up. I had hoped to get to several of the usual viewing locations in order to get some good video, but we're back to the normal 27 operations.


They did Runway 9 from morning until almost dusk. I caught a few: HA 330, DL 767, some 757s, but the big two I wanted (JAL and LH) did Runway 27 departures during gaps in Runway 9 arrivals, which resulted in both of them holding short of Runway 27 for almost an hour before departing. Funny because I've seen a 788 do a Runway 9 departure, but for operational reasons they must have wanted to do Runway 27. Both times they did not reverse the arrival and departure flow, which must have meant some delays for everyone.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:54 am

irelayer wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Happy Day-After-Christmas to everyone!!

BIG rain showers early this morning put SAN on reverse operations this morning, even for a while after it cleared up. I had hoped to get to several of the usual viewing locations in order to get some good video, but we're back to the normal 27 operations.


They did Runway 9 from morning until almost dusk. I caught a few: HA 330, DL 767, some 757s, but the big two I wanted (JAL and LH) did Runway 27 departures during gaps in Runway 9 arrivals, which resulted in both of them holding short of Runway 27 for almost an hour before departing. Funny because I've seen a 788 do a Runway 9 departure, but for operational reasons they must have wanted to do Runway 27. Both times they did not reverse the arrival and departure flow, which must have meant some delays for everyone.

Have you ever seen a 764 do a Runway 9 departure?
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:40 am

There's a YouTube video showing the BA 744 doing a runway 9 takeoff during a foggy night. I figure if a 747 can do it, so can the other widebodies.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:49 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
There's a YouTube video showing the BA 744 doing a runway 9 takeoff during a foggy night. I figure if a 747 can do it, so can the other widebodies.


Runway 9 departures are dependent on the current conditions, load factor, payload etc. Maybe it works one day but not another. Worked plenty of WN flights during reverse ops that couldn’t use 9 and, weather permitting, needed 27. Otherwise a weight penalty would apply.

Man, I don’t miss those days.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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