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blacksoviet
Posts: 1208
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:38 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I know for a while there was a 5:00 AM WN departure from LAS to SAN, which I can only imagine was because they had no place to park at SAN and overnighted it at Las Vegas. I couldn't imagine there would be any demand for that early of a flight, but there it was - our airplane for a return trip to LAS.

I will admit I joined the party late with the WN in T1W already in progress. Had no idea. All of the connection stories I assumed were the familiar Gate 1/1A/2 to 3-10 nightmares. That's on me. But I'm up to date now.

If WN is going to continue to route passengers through SAN - and especially to Hawai'i - they will really need to reconsider the "no shuttle" concept, particularly if they have trouble routing mis-connected passengers because of the lines at each of the banjos. The cost of a van is nothing compared to the cost of daily headaches for re-scheduling.


Where would the van pick up passengers at each of the banjos? I think they would have to sacrifice two gates to run a shuttle service. One gate in each banjo.
 
smflyer
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:00 pm

SANFan wrote:
smflyer wrote:
Kind of anecdotal on my part, but the SMF-SAN flights have been full on both WN and AS birds. Yield is, however, another story.

Anybody willing, able or wanting to fly First Class between SAN and SMF, or wanting reserved seats, is going to be on AS, whether it's an EMJ or mainline. I would imagine that includes a lot of the political folks. Even though it's not that many seats, I'd be willing to bet most of the 'up-front' seats are filled on AAG flights. (The same situation exists for SJC; WN may offer 16 daily r/t this summer, but there's not a single "F" seat on any one of them! AS will operate 3 of their 4 r/t with mainline a/c in April so there will be even more available F/C seats .)

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Space limitations for RON aircraft that are not in the initial first-to-depart round of departures..... Alternative parking locations have to be found.

I haven't counted every cx RONs lately at SDIA but I would bet that AAG, with anywhere from 12 to 17 of them, leads everyone at SAN in that figure! That is a LOT of planes to find space for so nearly every nook and cranny at SAN is filled with an AS plane overnight! Look at it this way: with every available AS gate in T2E filled by midnight, that handles only about 9 or 10 a/c (depending on how many RONs AA has.) So AS has at a minimum, 3-4, to as many as 6 additional a/c to park somewhere every night. They use available gates at T1W, as already discussed up-thread, they apparently use the CT, and they might use some of the RON parking direclty behind gates 50 & 51, known as the racetrack. And who knows where else...

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I didn't know Southwest was officially using any gates other than T1E, which is gates 1-10. It was my understanding that T1W gates wouldn't start until Hawai'i started. Is this a temporary situation? And how long are these gate renovations scheduled to take?

My apologies if this point has been discussed before.

WN has used gates in T1W since sometime last year and yes, the fact has been discussed quite a bit on this thread, and last year's edition. Sorry you missed all that. We've discussed that WN had/has not plans to offer some kind of shuttle between T1W & T1E but instead makes connecting pax go thru TSA when necessary to catch their inter-rotunda connecting flight. (Recently, I've seen that WN is using gate 11 pretty much full time, and gate 12 occasionally.)

The recent mention of WN gate renovations in T1E (by wnflyguy) is the first I've heard of that. Perhaps he will expand on those comments. I will add that I have seen nothing official about the final set-up that will exist in T1W -- and how many gates WN will actually use there. Or which part of T1 JetBlue will use when they move next month.

IF HI flights ever happen on WN (?), the carrier may concentrate them in T1W, or not. Who knows? There have been plenty of rumors but I'm afraid we just need to wait and see what happens when the moving vans have all gone and the remodel dust settles.

Love this airport!

bb


Thats true about the AS SMF-SAN first class seats. My neighbor flies the SMF-SAN route pretty much weekly so I can see some frequent fliers looking for first class upgrades to probably defect to AS on that route.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:52 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I know for a while there was a 5:00 AM WN departure from LAS to SAN, which I can only imagine was because they had no place to park at SAN and overnighted it at Las Vegas. I couldn't imagine there would be any demand for that early of a flight, but there it was - our airplane for a return trip to LAS.

I will admit I joined the party late with the WN in T1W already in progress. Had no idea. All of the connection stories I assumed were the familiar Gate 1/1A/2 to 3-10 nightmares. That's on me. But I'm up to date now.

If WN is going to continue to route passengers through SAN - and especially to Hawai'i - they will really need to reconsider the "no shuttle" concept, particularly if they have trouble routing mis-connected passengers because of the lines at each of the banjos. The cost of a van is nothing compared to the cost of daily headaches for re-scheduling.


Last I've heard WN is going to put 20-30 flights out of T1E this spring and summer.
WN wanted all of T1E for more gate flexibly since it has the highest gate usage in SAN. But SAN had other plans.
As of last week B6 doesn't want to relocate to T1E.

As for as the remodel it's putting in Electronic Boarding signs and new Customer service gate check in desk in T1E vs the temporary signs now.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:34 pm

I thought a few folks would find these numbers interesting although I don't think they relate to any future service levels at SAN.

Regarding the thread that's currently discussing "US and Japan agree on additional HDN slots" (here's a link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415015 ) in Reply #217, someone posted the top US mainland-TYO markets. I've added in a couple of additional markets that were added by footnote to come up with this list:

1. Los Angeles: 727,000
2. New York/Newark: 553,000
3. San Francisco: 352,000
4. Chicago: 138,000
5. Las Vegas: 133,000
6. Seattle: 132,000
7. Washington DC: 119,000
8. Boston: 109,000
9. San Diego: 97,000
10. Orlando: 82,000
11. Houston: 66,000
12. Dallas: 66,000
??. Detroit: 61,000
??. Denver: 35,000
(It is made clear that these numbers don't include connecting traffic.) (These numbers were apparently taken from UA's application for HND routes, found on UA-115 of DOT-OST-2019-0014 (Page 110.)

Anyone else recognize a city/airport we all know and love in a rather healthy place on this list (like in the Top Ten?)

I can't swear to the accuracy or presentation of the facts but they apparently come from UA so I would tend to believe them. And it doesn't mean to imply that UA or any of the other cx in the route grab is proposing new service from SAN; AA is attempting to get authority for LAS-HND while DL wants to move their PDX-NRT flight to HND but all other routes applied for are your standard hubs & intl gateways.

JL and NH will also get new HND slots (6 each I believe) and although there is some speculation about which existing or new U.S. cities they may serve from HND, there is no big hearing or government approval needed from Japan. In a huge thread, I think perhaps one or two posts mentioned SAN-HND as a possibility by JL. (Most folks, as usual, seem to have no idea that JL flies to SAN at all...)

Again, the only reason I am reciting these numbers here is out of general interest; I had no idea our little corner of California was in the top 10 in demand to Japan! And I'm impressed. I don't even know or care if having our flight to NRT relocated to HND is an honor, a sign of status, a good thing or a bad thing. Are there just as many connecting options from Haneda to Asia as from Narita these days, especially on JL?

Any thoughts? (But let's keep it realistic, eh?)

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:30 pm

Along the lines of the topic I just posted, I also found this article at SAN.org, released Friday, talking about the record-setting last year.
Here's the link: https://www.san.org/News/Article-Detail ... utive-year

Here, to me, is a highlight:

Japan Airlines flying a higher density aircraft and operating at one of the highest load factors of any mainland US-Tokyo flight in their system

I believe they have started flying the 789 now to SAN -- or will next month -- but I had no idea the route was doing so well!

There are other recaps of stats and all the other new int'l service that has started recently. Also mentioned is that WK carried 49% more pax in 2018 than they did in their first year.

It's not a real long PR but I think it's a good read.

(Oooops, I almost forgot: Love this airport!)

bb
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:24 am

SANFan wrote:
JL and NH will also get new HND slots (6 each I believe) and although there is some speculation about which existing or new U.S. cities they may serve from HND, there is no big hearing or government approval needed from Japan. In a huge thread, I think perhaps one or two posts mentioned SAN-HND as a possibility by JL. (Most folks, as usual, seem to have no idea that JL flies to SAN at all...)

Again, the only reason I am reciting these numbers here is out of general interest; I had no idea our little corner of California was in the top 10 in demand to Japan! And I'm impressed. I don't even know or care if having our flight to NRT relocated to HND is an honor, a sign of status, a good thing or a bad thing. Are there just as many connecting options from Haneda to Asia as from Narita these days, especially on JL?

Any thoughts? (But let's keep it realistic, eh?)

bb


I had similar thoughts when I saw those numbers. I guess it's possible JL might try and move SAN to HND when they get their slots. A mature monopoly route and a higher yielding airport seems like a good pairing to me. The connections element is the only question mark for me. If NRT provides better connections and if there are enough passengers connecting then I could see that as a reason for keeping NRT over HND.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:06 pm

I thought you all might enjoy seeing what the departure board in T2E looks like nowadays. Sorry for the side angle; too much glare head on.

Image
Also, and I know AA has been at these gates FOREVER, but would you agree that these are the worst gates at SAN right now? Especially since AA loves to put flights to DFW/ORD/CLT at 27/29/31 around the same time, just to add to the madness in that hallway and tiny waiting area :roll:

Image
 
JAAlbert
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:57 pm

Do plans exist to expand and widen T2E?
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:12 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
but would you agree that these are the worst gates at SAN right now?
[/img]


"Boy Have you lost your darn mind cuz I'll help you find it"
-Stanley Hudson

But yeah, did you forget that Terminal 1 East exists?
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:18 am

itripreport wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
but would you agree that these are the worst gates at SAN right now?
[/img]


"Boy Have you lost your darn mind cuz I'll help you find it"
-Stanley Hudson

But yeah, did you forget that Terminal 1 East exists?


lol it's been a long time since I've been in T1. I know those rotundas are tight --- worse than 27/29/31 though?
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:40 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
itripreport wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
but would you agree that these are the worst gates at SAN right now?
[/img]


"Boy Have you lost your darn mind cuz I'll help you find it"
-Stanley Hudson

But yeah, did you forget that Terminal 1 East exists?


lol it's been a long time since I've been in T1. I know those rotundas are tight --- worse than 27/29/31 though?


Well just imagine, 8 full 737 gates, 3 small restaurants, 1 set of restrooms, VERY LIMITED seating. I'd say its bad if you get there during rush hour, which I'd say would be anything between 3-6. I haven't experienced issues with T2 east in the morning, but from the pictures it does look pretty bad. I'd say they are both bad in their own ways, especially now with Alaska at T2.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:05 am

Why was the portrait of Charles Lindbergh on the side of the Commuter Terminal painted over?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:50 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
I thought you all might enjoy seeing what the departure board in T2E looks like nowadays. Sorry for the side angle; too much glare head on.

Image
Also, and I know AA has been at these gates FOREVER, but would you agree that these are the worst gates at SAN right now? Especially since AA loves to put flights to DFW/ORD/CLT at 27/29/31 around the same time, just to add to the madness in that hallway and tiny waiting area :roll:

Image


JAAlbert wrote:
Do plans exist to expand and widen T2E?


Hopefully not. Terminal 2 East is outdated, window-starved, too narrow, and inefficiently laid out. Since the current plan is to new-build and replace, starting from the east, the entire airport would be better off if Terminal 2 East was the third and final phase of a new terminal, putting all of what are now gates 1-32 (or more) into one building with Terminal 2 West + International, with all gates being connected post-security, allowing MUCH greater flexibility and increased passenger efficiency, not to mention an enhanced experience for travelers.

Terminal 2 will eventually need refurbishment and upgrades, and given the limited space and crowded operations, not only would half the gates be unavailable with no replacements possible, but spending years in a construction zone isn't going to put the best for passengers. Better to move into brand new facilities and then demolish.

If the rest of the airport is to be state of the art, than T2East will be always be a glaring reminder that someone is going to be stuck with "those gates". And when it happens that it needs to be replaced, the limitations of what has been built up around it will severely restrict the design of the new terminal.

If your passengers have no seats and no where to stand except in the middle of the main pathway, it's time to go.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:33 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hopefully not. Terminal 2 East is outdated, window-starved, too narrow, and inefficiently laid out. Since the current plan is to new-build and replace, starting from the east, the entire airport would be better off if Terminal 2 East was the third and final phase of a new terminal, putting all of what are now gates 1-32 (or more) into one building with Terminal 2 West + International, with all gates being connected post-security, allowing MUCH greater flexibility and increased passenger efficiency, not to mention an enhanced experience for travelers.

Terminal 2 will eventually need refurbishment and upgrades, and given the limited space and crowded operations, not only would half the gates be unavailable with no replacements possible, but spending years in a construction zone isn't going to put the best for passengers. Better to move into brand new facilities and then demolish.


Demolition of T2 East is in the environment impact report released last year(?). The new T1 will connect airside to T2 and there was also a gate extension at T2W past 51.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:40 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why was the portrait of Charles Lindbergh on the side of the Commuter Terminal painted over?


It wasn’t. The mural was painted on detachable panels mounted on the side of the building. The panels were removed to accommodate miantenance on the building. The artists bought it back and resold it to a group of community and business leaders in Ramona; since 2016 it’s been mounted on a building in downtown Ramona.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:19 am

Why did the Airport Authority change the name of Lindbergh Field to San Diego International Airport?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:47 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why did the Airport Authority change the name of Lindbergh Field to San Diego International Airport?


Lindbergh Field is the historic name for SAN. Lindbergh Field gained international status in 1934.
In fact, there is a 1950s picture of the old Pacific hwy terminal that says. "San Diego international airport" on the front.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
JAAlbert
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:49 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why was the portrait of Charles Lindbergh on the side of the Commuter Terminal painted over?


I have to say that the Lindbergh mural depicting him in flight gear holding a miniature of his plane looked more like a developmentally disabled adult. It always bothered me as I drove past. I suppose this makes me a terrible person, but that mural did not impress me in a positive manner
 
JAAlbert
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:53 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Demolition of T2 East is in the environment impact report released last year(?). The new T1 will connect airside to T2 and there was also a gate extension at T2W past 51.


Some of the plans I saw tearing down T2E and replacing it with a new wing of the T1 terminal. The plans leave T2W looking somewhat of an orphan off to the side.

Though I searched, I did not find anything confirming which terminal proposal the airport authority chose. Does anyone have a link to the terminal chosen, or have they not made a final selection yet?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:59 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Demolition of T2 East is in the environment impact report released last year(?). The new T1 will connect airside to T2 and there was also a gate extension at T2W past 51.


Some of the plans I saw tearing down T2E and replacing it with a new wing of the T1 terminal. The plans leave T2W looking somewhat of an orphan off to the side.

Though I searched, I did not find anything confirming which terminal proposal the airport authority chose. Does anyone have a link to the terminal chosen, or have they not made a final selection yet?


I have looked and looked and looked. Not a thing. Proposal after proposal, but nothing concrete. And with the board going back into deliberations over future mass transit - thank whatever deity you care to for that wise decision - we might not know officially for a while.

My thought and prognostications on this topic are well known, so I'll spare everyone another round of "Scotty Thinks He Knows Best"...

Insert rebuttals here.

As far as Terminal 2 West is concerned, it will make a nice compliment to the rebuilt Terminal 1, with no wasted space in between. The usage of tarmac space for the docking of aircraft at the maximum number of gates (60) will be at its highest possible efficiency. She is the standard for what Terminal 1 must become and somehow do better.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:45 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why did the Airport Authority change the name of Lindbergh Field to San Diego International Airport?


Lindbergh Field is the historic name for SAN. Lindbergh Field gained international status in 1934.
In fact, there is a 1950s picture of the old Pacific hwy terminal that says. "San Diego international airport" on the front.

I think they should rename the airport "Charles Lindbergh International Airport". What was the last airline to operate 757s at SAN?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:00 am

blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why did the Airport Authority change the name of Lindbergh Field to San Diego International Airport?


Lindbergh Field is the historic name for SAN. Lindbergh Field gained international status in 1934.
In fact, there is a 1950s picture of the old Pacific hwy terminal that says. "San Diego international airport" on the front.

I think they should rename the airport "Charles Lindbergh International Airport". What was the last airline to operate 757s at SAN?


SAN still sees UA and DL 757's:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL994/history/20190305/0110Z/KEWR/KSAN

757-200

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL977/history/20190304/1915Z/KSAN/KATL

757-300
 
mikeyp224
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:02 am

Has anyone noticed that 4/3, 4/4 and 4/6 Lufthansa has loaded the A333? Then the following Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday appear to be back to the A343. Odd, no?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:43 am

mikeyp224 wrote:
Has anyone noticed that 4/3, 4/4 and 4/6 Lufthansa has loaded the A333? Then the following Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday appear to be back to the A343. Odd, no?

Does the A343 offer better performance on the SAN runway?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:07 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:

Lindbergh Field is the historic name for SAN. Lindbergh Field gained international status in 1934.
In fact, there is a 1950s picture of the old Pacific hwy terminal that says. "San Diego international airport" on the front.

I think they should rename the airport "Charles Lindbergh International Airport". What was the last airline to operate 757s at SAN?


SAN still sees UA and DL 757's:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL994/history/20190305/0110Z/KEWR/KSAN

757-200

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL977/history/20190304/1915Z/KSAN/KATL

757-300

Why does United fly the 757-200 between EWR and SAN? Does the 738 not have enough range? The 752 only has three more seats but uses more fuel.

Perhaps cargo is the reason they use the 752 on this route. Does the 752 carry more cargo?
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:40 am

blacksoviet wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I think they should rename the airport "Charles Lindbergh International Airport". What was the last airline to operate 757s at SAN?


SAN still sees UA and DL 757's:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL994/history/20190305/0110Z/KEWR/KSAN

757-200

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL977/history/20190304/1915Z/KSAN/KATL

757-300

Why does United fly the 757-200 between EWR and SAN? Does the 738 not have enough range? The 752 only has three more seats but uses more fuel.

Perhaps cargo is the reason they use the 752 on this route. Does the 752 carry more cargo?


Actually no, since I know Delta used to operate (not sure if they still do) B738s into JFK. United is flying the 752 due to capacity and addition of lie-flat seats in first class.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:55 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
mikeyp224 wrote:
Has anyone noticed that 4/3, 4/4 and 4/6 Lufthansa has loaded the A333? Then the following Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday appear to be back to the A343. Odd, no?

Does the A343 offer better performance on the SAN runway?


Remember the take-off requirement at SAN: should a plane lose an engine on take-off, including the point where it can no longer stop on the runway, it MUST be able to continue the take-off, circle, and return for an emergency landing. Only intercontinental flights have this issue as a restriction, sometimes necessitating cargo/pax/luggage left behind.

With a 4-engine craft, you lose only 25% of your thrust. With a two-engine aircraft, you lose 50%.

Anything left behind, no matter how small, is revenue lost.

Both British Airways and Japan Air Lines have no problems with the 777-200's and -300's and 787-8's and -9's in and out of SAN, as take-off performance does not seem to be hindered. For LH, the A330 might not have the legs to do this job full-time, hence the A340-300 we regularly see.

As for the future, well, it's looking like only 2-engine planes will be built in the future, so the eventual replacement will have to measure up to these same standards.
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:11 pm

UA has upgraded service to EWR and IAD with lie flat up front. Their 753's are serving SAN for that reason, I believe no 737's in UA's fleet are currently configured this way.
 
tphuang
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:19 pm

From Q3
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
JFKSAN 2446 AA 62972 237.83 236.61 285.08 97.48% 160.0 454 86.69% 205.12
JFKSAN 2446 B6 52042 294.68 294.56 358.22 99.81% 159.0 368 88.94% 261.99
JFKSAN 2446 DL 91764 287.09 284.64 387.95 97.63% 177.2 594 87.19% 248.18
EWRSAN 2425 AS 26021 219.09 217.97 272.38 97.94% 169.6 182 84.28% 183.69
EWRSAN 2425 UA 81080 332.47 326.99 411.12 93.49% 168.4 546 88.19% 288.37
EWRSAN 2425 WN 24960 233.2 233.68 225.4 94.22% 163.4 180 84.84% 198.25
as you can see from these numbers, EWR-SAN is a very strong route for UA. And given that both B6 and DL has lie flat options out of JFK, it makes sense for UA to have competitive products on a route that is a money maker. And also continue to get revenue premium over AS and WN.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:46 am

tphuang wrote:
From Q3
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
JFKSAN 2446 AA 62972 237.83 236.61 285.08 97.48% 160.0 454 86.69% 205.12
JFKSAN 2446 B6 52042 294.68 294.56 358.22 99.81% 159.0 368 88.94% 261.99
JFKSAN 2446 DL 91764 287.09 284.64 387.95 97.63% 177.2 594 87.19% 248.18
EWRSAN 2425 AS 26021 219.09 217.97 272.38 97.94% 169.6 182 84.28% 183.69
EWRSAN 2425 UA 81080 332.47 326.99 411.12 93.49% 168.4 546 88.19% 288.37
EWRSAN 2425 WN 24960 233.2 233.68 225.4 94.22% 163.4 180 84.84% 198.25
as you can see from these numbers, EWR-SAN is a very strong route for UA. And given that both B6 and DL has lie flat options out of JFK, it makes sense for UA to have competitive products on a route that is a money maker. And also continue to get revenue premium over AS and WN.

Does this mean that AA is now the only mainline carrier flying to JFK without lie flat seats?
 
phxa340
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:43 am

tphuang wrote:
From Q3
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
JFKSAN 2446 AA 62972 237.83 236.61 285.08 97.48% 160.0 454 86.69% 205.12
JFKSAN 2446 B6 52042 294.68 294.56 358.22 99.81% 159.0 368 88.94% 261.99
JFKSAN 2446 DL 91764 287.09 284.64 387.95 97.63% 177.2 594 87.19% 248.18
EWRSAN 2425 AS 26021 219.09 217.97 272.38 97.94% 169.6 182 84.28% 183.69
EWRSAN 2425 UA 81080 332.47 326.99 411.12 93.49% 168.4 546 88.19% 288.37
EWRSAN 2425 WN 24960 233.2 233.68 225.4 94.22% 163.4 180 84.84% 198.25
as you can see from these numbers, EWR-SAN is a very strong route for UA. And given that both B6 and DL has lie flat options out of JFK, it makes sense for UA to have competitive products on a route that is a money maker. And also continue to get revenue premium over AS and WN.


God - this looks terrible for AS. Their long haul routes from San Diego all seem to be at a discount to other airlines (except MCO and BOS) imo - hopefully revenue management stays invested with us at SAN !!
 
tphuang
Posts: 3105
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:54 am

Yes, AA is only one without any kind of lie flat to JFK. Those numbers btw are terrible. They tried to add flight for summer and just ended up getting worse yield. DL has 1/3 flights in D1 config.

As for EWR-SAN, AS was doing okay on this route until B6 put mint on JFK-SAN and then it got even worse when WN entered. They are definitely at a huge discount to B6 on BOS also, but they are probably making money on there. BOS-SAN has very healthy yields overall.
 
AlexBrewster03
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:48 am

This is probably a stupid question that has been asked a million times and I’m to lazy to look, but is there any way San Diego could add a second runway.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:28 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
This is probably a stupid question that has been asked a million times and I’m to lazy to look, but is there any way San Diego could add a second runway.

Yes. They could re-open the second runway. Doing this would require them to relocate the air cargo ramp. The second runway was closed because it was only 3,600 feet and could only be used by small aircraft. There is no way to add a second full length runway on the land currently owned by the airport. In the future, they could try to purchase half of Liberty Station if they want to add a new runway. However half of Liberty Station would have to be demolished.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:55 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
This is probably a stupid question that has been asked a million times and I’m to lazy to look, but is there any way San Diego could add a second runway.


Yes. They could re-open the second runway. Doing this would require them to relocate the air cargo ramp. The second runway was closed because it was only 3,600 feet and could only be used by small aircraft. There is no way to add a second full length runway on the land currently owned by the airport. In the future, they could try to purchase half of Liberty Station if they want to add a new runway. However half of Liberty Station would have to be demolished.


Perhaps you mean MCRD because I do not see how closing Liberty Station (the old NTC) could help in any way. I've seen plans on a second departure runway heading in a 290 direction dissecting the MCRD property however it would only improve movements by about 15-20% and not double the traffic a parallel runway 4200 feet apart could accomplish.

San Diego had a parallel runway in the past but it was used by seaplanes out in the harbor. Even Juan Trippe was interested as he wanted to fly to Hawaii, Midway, Wake, Guam and Manila from Lindbergh Field in the 1930s from our superb seaplane harbor but Alameda won out because it was 300 some odd miles closer to Hawaii which was the longest non-stop segment with no place to refuel. Otherwise Pan Am would have been part of our history a long time ago. Missed it by 300 miles.
We're up.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:45 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
This is probably a stupid question that has been asked a million times and I’m to lazy to look, but is there any way San Diego could add a second runway.


Yes. They could re-open the second runway. Doing this would require them to relocate the air cargo ramp. The second runway was closed because it was only 3,600 feet and could only be used by small aircraft. There is no way to add a second full length runway on the land currently owned by the airport. In the future, they could try to purchase half of Liberty Station if they want to add a new runway. However half of Liberty Station would have to be demolished.


Perhaps you mean MCRD because I do not see how closing Liberty Station (the old NTC) could help in any way. I've seen plans on a second departure runway heading in a 290 direction dissecting the MCRD property however it would only improve movements by about 15-20% and not double the traffic a parallel runway 4200 feet apart could accomplish.

San Diego had a parallel runway in the past but it was used by seaplanes out in the harbor. Even Juan Trippe was interested as he wanted to fly to Hawaii, Midway, Wake, Guam and Manila from Lindbergh Field in the 1930s from our superb seaplane harbor but Alameda won out because it was 300 some odd miles closer to Hawaii which was the longest non-stop segment with no place to refuel. Otherwise Pan Am would have been part of our history a long time ago. Missed it by 300 miles.

I saw former mayor Jerry Sanders say once on local news that a second runway could be built on the Liberty Station site. You are right. He probably meant to say MCRD.

I don't think the buildings at the main part of MCRD can be demolished because they are historic. However it looks like major construction is going on over on the west side of MCRD (by the boat channel). They are building something over where the old barracks used to be. I think half of the abandoned barracks are still standing. I wonder what will end up happening to that land west of Terminal 2.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:24 pm

Re Second Runway....yes it is possible, it's called NKX (Miramar)
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1941
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Perhaps you mean MCRD because I do not see how closing Liberty Station (the old NTC) could help in any way. I've seen plans on a second departure runway heading in a 290 direction dissecting the MCRD property however it would only improve movements by about 15-20% and not double the traffic a parallel runway 4200 feet apart could accomplish.


Moreover, I think the Pt. Loma Hills directly west of Liberty Station would prevent departures on a runway built over the Liberty Station land. I recall reading that the Pt. Loma Hills already require restrictions on aircraft departing to the west.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:24 am

Just got confirmation starting this Sunday March 10th WN will start using gates 11,12,13,14 in T1E. Gates 13,14 will be shared with Allegiant and Sun Country.
JetBlue relocating to gates 15 & 16.
Spirit gate 17
Frontier gate 18

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
futuresdpdcop
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:26 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:37 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Just got confirmation starting this Sunday March 10th WN will start using gates 11,12,13,14 in T1E. Gates 13,14 will be shared with Allegiant and Sun Country.
JetBlue relocating to gates 15 & 16.
Spirit gate 17
Frontier gate 18

Flyguy

WN used/ is using gate 13 already for 2 different SAN-OAK flights. Could probably look up San.org and find more but I’m feeling lazy currently.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:14 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Just got confirmation starting this Sunday March 10th WN will start using gates 11,12,13,14 in T1E. Gates 13,14 will be shared with Allegiant and Sun Country.
JetBlue relocating to gates 15 & 16.
Spirit gate 17
Frontier gate 18

Flyguy

who will take over Gates 35, 36 and 37 once Jetblue leaves? I think spirit will need more than one gate.
 
SANAV8R
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:15 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:14 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:

Yes. They could re-open the second runway. Doing this would require them to relocate the air cargo ramp. The second runway was closed because it was only 3,600 feet and could only be used by small aircraft. There is no way to add a second full length runway on the land currently owned by the airport. In the future, they could try to purchase half of Liberty Station if they want to add a new runway. However half of Liberty Station would have to be demolished.


Perhaps you mean MCRD because I do not see how closing Liberty Station (the old NTC) could help in any way. I've seen plans on a second departure runway heading in a 290 direction dissecting the MCRD property however it would only improve movements by about 15-20% and not double the traffic a parallel runway 4200 feet apart could accomplish.

San Diego had a parallel runway in the past but it was used by seaplanes out in the harbor. Even Juan Trippe was interested as he wanted to fly to Hawaii, Midway, Wake, Guam and Manila from Lindbergh Field in the 1930s from our superb seaplane harbor but Alameda won out because it was 300 some odd miles closer to Hawaii which was the longest non-stop segment with no place to refuel. Otherwise Pan Am would have been part of our history a long time ago. Missed it by 300 miles.

I saw former mayor Jerry Sanders say once on local news that a second runway could be built on the Liberty Station site. You are right. He probably meant to say MCRD.

I don't think the buildings at the main part of MCRD can be demolished because they are historic. However it looks like major construction is going on over on the west side of MCRD (by the boat channel). They are building something over where the old barracks used to be. I think half of the abandoned barracks are still standing. I wonder what will end up happening to that land west of Terminal 2.


Those abandoned barracks were part of NTC, if you mean the area immediately near the Nimitz Bridge and Kincaid/Spruance/McCain Rds. The area is being developed into two hotels (Hilton and Marriott) and restaurant spaces. There’s also some SDPD/SDFD and SDSU facilities near Kincaid/Spruance/McCain Rds. What I’m also surprised they still have all
the RV storage at MCRD and right at the exact end of the runway and haven’t had them move them to Miramar where they have more space.

I always hoped for an expanded Terminal 2 ramp and parking garage with spotting facilities in the area being developed.
You're either gonna love me or hate me. There is no in between with me.
 
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DL717
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:32 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
This is probably a stupid question that has been asked a million times and I’m to lazy to look, but is there any way San Diego could add a second runway.


There might have been 80 or so years ago.

That place will be slot allocated within a decade.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:54 am

SANAV8R wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:

Perhaps you mean MCRD because I do not see how closing Liberty Station (the old NTC) could help in any way. I've seen plans on a second departure runway heading in a 290 direction dissecting the MCRD property however it would only improve movements by about 15-20% and not double the traffic a parallel runway 4200 feet apart could accomplish.

San Diego had a parallel runway in the past but it was used by seaplanes out in the harbor. Even Juan Trippe was interested as he wanted to fly to Hawaii, Midway, Wake, Guam and Manila from Lindbergh Field in the 1930s from our superb seaplane harbor but Alameda won out because it was 300 some odd miles closer to Hawaii which was the longest non-stop segment with no place to refuel. Otherwise Pan Am would have been part of our history a long time ago. Missed it by 300 miles.

I saw former mayor Jerry Sanders say once on local news that a second runway could be built on the Liberty Station site. You are right. He probably meant to say MCRD.

I don't think the buildings at the main part of MCRD can be demolished because they are historic. However it looks like major construction is going on over on the west side of MCRD (by the boat channel). They are building something over where the old barracks used to be. I think half of the abandoned barracks are still standing. I wonder what will end up happening to that land west of Terminal 2.


Those abandoned barracks were part of NTC, if you mean the area immediately near the Nimitz Bridge and Kincaid/Spruance/McCain Rds. The area is being developed into two hotels (Hilton and Marriott) and restaurant spaces. There’s also some SDPD/SDFD and SDSU facilities near Kincaid/Spruance/McCain Rds. What I’m also surprised they still have all
the RV storage at MCRD and right at the exact end of the runway and haven’t had them move them to Miramar where they have more space.

I always hoped for an expanded Terminal 2 ramp and parking garage with spotting facilities in the area being developed.

Do the RVs cause problems for jets trying to land on runway 9?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
Along the lines of the topic I just posted, I also found this article at SAN.org, released Friday, talking about the record-setting last year.
Here's the link: https://www.san.org/News/Article-Detail ... utive-year

Here, to me, is a highlight:

Japan Airlines flying a higher density aircraft and operating at one of the highest load factors of any mainland US-Tokyo flight in their system

I believe they have started flying the 789 now to SAN -- or will next month -- but I had no idea the route was doing so well!

There are other recaps of stats and all the other new int'l service that has started recently. Also mentioned is that WK carried 49% more pax in 2018 than they did in their first year.

It's not a real long PR but I think it's a good read.

(Oooops, I almost forgot: Love this airport!)

bb


Hey Bob! I finally got to re-read the article, and one thing stuck out to me:

...and all but two of the 17 airlines serving SAN experienced an increase in passenger traffic.


Which two airlines would this be? Sun Country? Allegiant?

I really am stumped on this one!
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5065
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:50 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hey Bob! I finally got to re-read the article, and one thing stuck out to me:

...and all but two of the 17 airlines serving SAN experienced an increase in passenger traffic.

Which two airlines would this be? Sun Country? Allegiant? I really am stumped on this one!

Interesting question, 'SAN4Ever. I didn't really think about it and I certainly don't know the answer but if I speculate, I would first eliminate cx that added service in 2018 at SAN. Those would include SY (who added SAN-Cabo last summer & will again offer the route this summer again), F9 which added a lot -- but also dropped some -- last year, and HA which doubled their destinations from here. I assume the legacies grew last year, even without any new routes, and we know AS and WN grew a lot. I also feel that JL & BA prolly grew in 2018, since that's generally what they do! Other cx such as WK were specifically mentioned in the article as having grown last year.

The 'left-over' cx, IMO, would be G4, NK, WS & B6. I don't believe any of these 4 added much capacity. That of course doesn't mean they didn't grow their number of pax flown to or from SAN. (Both G4 and NK did add a new route but they were quite limited in time flown.)

All that being said, I would agree that G4 probably remained about the same, plus I would go with NK whom I believe actually shed a few routes in 2018, such as DEN & SJD; they have also dropped BWI service. I would actually rank Spirit as the most 'anti-growth' carrier at SAN right now - quite disappointing.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:10 pm

SANFan wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hey Bob! I finally got to re-read the article, and one thing stuck out to me:

...and all but two of the 17 airlines serving SAN experienced an increase in passenger traffic.

Which two airlines would this be? Sun Country? Allegiant? I really am stumped on this one!

Interesting question, 'SAN4Ever. I didn't really think about it and I certainly don't know the answer but if I speculate, I would first eliminate cx that added service in 2018 at SAN. Those would include SY (who added SAN-Cabo last summer & will again offer the route this summer again), F9 which added a lot -- but also dropped some -- last year, and HA which doubled their destinations from here. I assume the legacies grew last year, even without any new routes, and we know AS and WN grew a lot. I also feel that JL & BA prolly grew in 2018, since that's generally what they do! Other cx such as WK were specifically mentioned in the article as having grown last year.

The 'left-over' cx, IMO, would be G4, NK, WS & B6. I don't believe any of these 4 added much capacity. That of course doesn't mean they didn't grow their number of pax flown to or from SAN. (Both G4 and NK did add a new route but they were quite limited in time flown.)

All that being said, I would agree that G4 probably remained about the same, plus I would go with NK whom I believe actually shed a few routes in 2018, such as DEN & SJD; they have also dropped BWI service. I would actually rank Spirit as the most 'anti-growth' carrier at SAN right now - quite disappointing.

bb


Those were my guesses, but carriers such as G4 and NK are always throwing routes out there to see what sticks. ULCC's have to move quickly, and things will come and go, but having no numbers by which to determine, it's just a guess. Personally, given how fast they have to adapt to compete, I don't usually count them in rankings like this, because what worked one month might not work the next.

I wrote off F9 a long time ago when they dropped their DEN hub and switched to the ULCC model, but fortunately for the company and its employees, I was wrong. They seem to be finding their niche in the U.S., and if it ends up being profitable, good for them. They used to have four daily flights to DEN from SAN - what are they averaging today?
 
rayfound
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:42 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:14 pm

smflyer wrote:

Thats true about the AS SMF-SAN first class seats. My neighbor flies the SMF-SAN route pretty much weekly so I can see some frequent fliers looking for first class upgrades to probably defect to AS on that route.


I live much closer to ONT and SNA but drive to SAN for SMF and BOI flights for AS upgrades and cheap fares for work. The E-175 addition to AS fleet makes a lot more upgrades available in the network overall.
 
User avatar
rjsampson
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:00 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:35 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I think they should rename the airport "Charles Lindbergh International Airport". What was the last airline to operate 757s at SAN?


Absolutely not. I say "Good riddance" to the name "Lindbergh Field" and that mural.

So Lindbergh solo'ed across the Atlantic. There have been FAR greater milestones in aviation than that, with far less hyperbole... Nonetheless:

It doesn't change the fact that Lindbergh was a racist, white-supremacist, anti-Semitic, Nazi-sympathizer. Glad his name and likeness are gone from SAN.

I like the SoSL replica, though. As far as I'm concerned: The Ryan aircraft was just as much (if arguably moreso) responsible for that achievement.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
smflyer
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:38 pm

rayfound wrote:
smflyer wrote:

Thats true about the AS SMF-SAN first class seats. My neighbor flies the SMF-SAN route pretty much weekly so I can see some frequent fliers looking for first class upgrades to probably defect to AS on that route.


I live much closer to ONT and SNA but drive to SAN for SMF and BOI flights for AS upgrades and cheap fares for work. The E-175 addition to AS fleet makes a lot more upgrades available in the network overall.


Not to mention that boarding an E175 is generally quicker and the seats are wider and have a little more legroom and no chance of a middle seat.
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