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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:04 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
I still don't understand why a US airline can't make SAN-CUN work when it is obviously the busiest resort in Mexico. TIJ-CUN flights are Saturday Only on Volaris last I looked.

You have three different airlines fighting over the SAN-SJD route which is about 2 hours. But nobody will strike out and run a five hour flight to Cancun.
There are other considerations about the culture in Mexico compared to the USA.

The issue of nonstop service between SAN and CUN comes up every few years.

The only time I can recall the route actually seeing any service was by F9 several years ago (during the John Happ days at F9) beginning in Dec 2006, ending in August 2007; the A319 op'd on Sat only. (There has certainly not been any attempt at serving the market since then.) It was usually an 11pm departure, with a return back in SAN on Sunday ~noon. Horrible times, once weekly service, and not nearly enough interest in the market. I have no recollection of how much promoting of the route Frontier or the airport did to try to encourage the success of the service. It was NOT considered a success!

I would be very surprised to see it tried again any time soon. I just don't think the traffic is there -- why fly to a Mexican resort when flights to Hawaii, about 600 miles further, eliminate the 'complications' of traveling to and in Mexico!

I can also say that when I was still a working travel agent in the San Diego area, who sold tons of Hawaii, as well as resort destinations in Mexico, I rarely had any clients request or book trips to Cancun. Some of my clients headed for MZT, PVR, and Cabo, flew out of TIJ, but most flew from Lindbergh Field, nonstop if possible or via connections thru LA or wherever.

Nowadays, I would think vacationers heading to Mexico generally prefer Cabo to the Mexican Caribbean; for one thing, the humidity is totally different in Baja! Plus of course the flight time is less than half and I expect the fares are considerably less. I know there are also many San Diegans who own places in and near Cabo but I would expect very few own anything near Cancun; these property owners in SAN certainly help fill up the ~ 2.5-3 daily r/t to SJD!

For the very few San Diegans who really do want to go to CUN, they can certainly use the CBX to fly the nonstop from TIJ, or get to LA and fly from there. I think those options certainly take care of the little traffic that exists.

bb
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:02 am

SANFan wrote:
The issue of nonstop service between SAN and CUN comes up every few years.


I suppose the bottom line is that of airports that have both nonstops to Cancun and Hawaii are pretty big airports if they over 1700 miles from Cancun. You don't see Cancun service to Sacramento, San Jose, Oakland, Portland OR, etc.

The only counter argument is SLC or Salt Lake City whose airport is almost same size as SAN. But SLC is not served by Hawaiian Airlines, Alaska or Southwest to Hawaii. It only has Delta to Honolulu. So it is an opportunity to give people Cancun as an alternative.

OAK airport is 2,402 miles to Cancun and 2,409 miles to Honolulu, and SEA is 2,685 miles from Cancun and 2,677 miles from Honolulu so there is not a strong argument based on distance.

Volaris just needs a website dedicated to beach destinations from Tijuana with links to hotels and times you should arrive at the CBX. Plus some simple information that indicates you can get pesos at the airport and it's not always a wise idea to go to Mexico with a giant roll of $1 bills (which is common advice that dates back over 20 years ago).

USA - Miles to Cancun
SEA 2685 Seattle (rank#8)
SFO 2407 San Francisco (rank #7)
LAX 2119 Los Angeles (rank #2)
SAN 2028 San Diego (rank #24) ----------- hypothetical
SLC 2005 Salt Lake City (rank #23)
LAS 1996 Las Vegas (rank #9)
PHX 1760 Phoenix (rank #13)
BOS 1735 Boston (rank #16)
MSP 1683 Minneapolis (rank #17)
DEN 1669 Denver (rank #5)
BDL 1661 Hartford/Springfield (Windsor Locks) ---- medium size airport
JFK 1555 New York
EWR 1547 Newark
MKE 1511 Milwaukee
DTW 1473 Detroit (Romulus)
PHL 1469 Philadelphia
ORD 1444 Chicago
CLE 1434 Cleveland
MDW 1431 Chicago
PIT 1396 Pittsburgh
BWI 1389 Baltimore
IAD 1355 Washington
MCI 1341 Kansas City
CMH 1327 Columbus
IND 1287 Indianapolis
CVG 1248 Covington
STL 1238 St. Louis
RDU 1133 Raleigh/Durham
BNA 1039 Nashville
DFW 1028 Dallas-Fort Worth
SAT 931 San Antonio
AUS 922 Austin
ATL 880 Atlanta
IAH 811 Houston
HOU 791 Houston
MSY 652 New Orléans
MCO 617 Orlando
FLL 550 Fort Lauderdale
TPA 550 Tampa


In contrast distances from SAN to
SJD 802 miles Los Cabos
PVR 1109 miles Puerto Vallarta
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:56 am

Let's suppose you want to go from Tijuana to one of the Pacific Beach destinations
ZIH 1412 miles Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo [Ixtapa-Zihuatanejo Intl], GRO, MX
ACA 1530 miles Acapulco [General Juan N. Álvarez Intl], GRO, MX
HUX 1737 miles Huatulco (Santa Cruz) [Bahías de Huatulco Intl], OAX, MX

But once again you are looking at the nonstop flights at hours that have nothing to do with hotel check-in/out times
Operated by Volaris Mexico Aircraft type: A320
1:30 AM - 7:04 AM Duration: 3h 34m Tijuana -> Acapulco
7:34 AM - 9:10 AM Duration: 3h 36m Acapulco-> Tijuana

You also get introduced to a Mexican tradition that you seldom see in the USA, the 3.5 hour redeye (two time zones).
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:11 pm

Great discussions on all of these topics!!

With regards to SAN and the cancellation of a lot of AS/QX routes, I want to pose this question to our board here: obviously the yields for AS/QX were not at the level they were hoping for. Is that more an issue with the route just not being high-yielding enough for the airline(s)? Or is the difficulty in re-routing passengers simply too much?

For example, ELP-SAN. WN can re-route you via PHX, ABQ, or LAS (just to mention a few) if something should happen to the non-stop. What options does AS have? Is that a factor in the decision for cancellation?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:46 pm

Our BA flight#273 is cancelled due to the British Airways strike. Bummer! We won't be seeing that beautiful 777 from LHR coming in
for a couple of days.
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:10 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
With regards to SAN and the cancellation of a lot of AS/QX routes, I want to pose this question to our board here: obviously the yields for AS/QX were not at the level they were hoping for. Is that more an issue with the route just not being high-yielding enough for the airline(s)? Or is the difficulty in re-routing passengers simply too much?

For example, ELP-SAN. WN can re-route you via PHX, ABQ, or LAS (just to mention a few) if something should happen to the non-stop. What options does AS have? Is that a factor in the decision for cancellation?

I can't imagine it would be a major consideration for AS. Look at all the other routes they operate even out of SEA where they have no alternative online service. I assume they put must-travel pax on another carrier (except WN?) out of there as well as here. (After trying to get them to fly on AS tomorrow, of course!)

SANMAN66 wrote:
Our BA flight#273 is cancelled due to the British Airways strike. Bummer! We won't be seeing that beautiful 777 from LHR coming in
for a couple of days.

One day strike isn't it, L-man? Is this the first time BA's service to SAN has been xld due to a work stoppage? Yuck, what a pain for regular travelers.

I suppose they put most pax on AA via somewhere? That would seem the easiest way for BA to get folks where they need to go.

bb
 
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stl07
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:21 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
Our BA flight#273 is cancelled due to the British Airways strike. Bummer! We won't be seeing that beautiful 777 from LHR coming in
for a couple of days.

Did PSA give you a lift to the nearest AA hub?
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:42 am

stl07 wrote:
Did PSA give you a lift to the nearest AA hub?

Possibly to PHX, AA has a flight to LHR on their own metal, or maybe LAX?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:14 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Did PSA give you a lift to the nearest AA hub?

Possibly to PHX, AA has a flight to LHR on their own metal, or maybe LAX?

I presume most of the passengers are being routed via MIA.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:43 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Did PSA give you a lift to the nearest AA hub?

Possibly to PHX, AA has a flight to LHR on their own metal, or maybe LAX?

I presume most of the passengers are being routed via MIA.


Most likely passengers originating on the East Coast would be routed through MIA, JFK, or CLT. The West Coast passengers would likely be routed through DFW, PHX, or LAX.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:08 pm

https://san.org/News/Article-Detail/ArtMID/952/ArticleID/230/San-Diego-International-Airport-relocates-cell-phone-waiting-lot

I missed this one!! Relocation of the cell phone lot.

Image

I wish that this was the beginning of construction of the new Terminal 1 East and associated mass-transit system going in, but we'll see.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:17 pm

SAN pax stats update.

The July numbers for 2019 have just been posted and I thought I'd share some of the highlights. Here's a link to the page: https://www.san.org/News/Air-Traffic-Reports

Total pax for July 2019: 2,425,392
Increase y-o-y: 3.5%
Total pax for 2019 y-t-d: 14,535,472
Pax increase y-t-d: 3.8%
Int'l pax for July 2019: 107,875
Change y-o-y: -1.2%
Int'l pax for 2019 y-t-d: 2.3%

Market share:
WN: 35.9% (down from previous month)
AS: 14.8% (up from previous month)
DL: 13.9% (up from previous month)
UA: 11.5% (down from previous month)

My summary: overall pax growth continues although at a lower rate than previous years. At the current yearly growth rate, SAN should certainly exceed 25M in 2019! (Last year we saw 24.2M pax use SDIA.)

Int'l pax continue to decrease y-o-y but that decrease (-1.2%) is less than in previous months. Overall int'l pax for 2019 is still showing a net growth of over 2%

WN's market share has decreased from a high of 39.1% in February while AS has increased from a low of 13.3 in January. DL is also at a high for the year after a low of 11.8% in February; UA has been decreasing since its high for the year in March of 12.6%. IMO, some of these changes, particularly WN, could be partially due to the MAX groundings and resulting cancelled flights starting this last summer.

Any thoughts?

bb
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:27 pm

Is Allegiant going to remain in Terminal 2 East after contruction of Terminal 1 is completed?
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:49 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Is Allegiant going to remain in Terminal 2 East after contruction of Terminal 1 is completed?

Allegiant is not in T2E now.

bb
 
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rjsampson
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:53 pm

What is the status of terminal construction at SAN? I know the Master Plan is to merge both; is there currently any construction on renovating the Terminal 1? Are new gates planned? Either way, When is current construction (if any) expected to be completed?
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
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rjsampson
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:19 pm

Hate to bump a thread... If anyone could give any insight on my question, it would be very helpful. I'm meeting with my Congresswoman, Susan Davis later this week (on an unrelated matter) and would love to bring up SAN construction activity. Any insight?
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:35 pm

rjsampson wrote:
What is the status of terminal construction at SAN? I know the Master Plan is to merge both; is there currently any construction on renovating the Terminal 1? Are new gates planned? Either way, When is current construction (if any) expected to be completed?

They have completed demolition of the abandoned Ryan compound.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:11 pm

rjsampson wrote:
What is the status of terminal construction at SAN? I know the Master Plan is to merge both; is there currently any construction on renovating the Terminal 1? Are new gates planned? Either way, When is current construction (if any) expected to be completed?

rjsampson wrote:
Hate to bump a thread... If anyone could give any insight on my question, it would be very helpful. I'm meeting with my Congresswoman, Susan Davis later this week (on an unrelated matter) and would love to bring up SAN construction activity. Any insight?

I don't know that there is currently a timeframe for beginning of construction, let alone completion and opening of the new T1. Other than "years from now."

No work on the current T1 is expected, and no new gates are planned AFAIK (at the current T1. In fact, I've heard that the current gate 2 has been eliminated so the number of gates in T1 today is actually decreasing!).

There are lots of big questions that need to still be answered about traffic patterns, airport roadways, and land transportation. AFAIK, the terminal design has been decided on and it is to be located east of the current T1. Other than that, I'm not real sure where the whole process is but I don't believe any land prep is even planned at this time.

I suggest you go to SAN.org and look up the ADP (Airport Development Plan) section; I assume the latest will be found there. Here's a link:
https://www.san.org/Airport-Projects/Ai ... pment-Plan

I don't think the revised EIR has been completed or released yet but you should end up being as up-to-date as possible after browsing through the ADP.

On another topic, I see on RoutesOnline, that DL is planning scheduled A333 service between SAN and ATL next March! It says it will op for part of the month 6x weekly (X6) and will be on the ground in SAN from about 10am - 11am. Those likeing new and different aircraft will want to mark this news on their calendars! Here's a link:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:04 pm

SANFan wrote:
rjsampson wrote:
What is the status of terminal construction at SAN? I know the Master Plan is to merge both; is there currently any construction on renovating the Terminal 1? Are new gates planned? Either way, When is current construction (if any) expected to be completed?

rjsampson wrote:
Hate to bump a thread... If anyone could give any insight on my question, it would be very helpful. I'm meeting with my Congresswoman, Susan Davis later this week (on an unrelated matter) and would love to bring up SAN construction activity. Any insight?

I don't know that there is currently a timeframe for beginning of construction, let alone completion and opening of the new T1. Other than "years from now."

No work on the current T1 is expected, and no new gates are planned AFAIK (at the current T1. In fact, I've heard that the current gate 2 has been eliminated so the number of gates in T1 today is actually decreasing!).

There are lots of big questions that need to still be answered about traffic patterns, airport roadways, and land transportation. AFAIK, the terminal design has been decided on and it is to be located east of the current T1. Other than that, I'm not real sure where the whole process is but I don't believe any land prep is even planned at this time.

On another topic, I see on RoutesOnline, that DL is planning scheduled A333 service between SAN and ATL next March! It says it will op for part of the month 6x weekly (X6) and will be on the ground in SAN from about 10am - 11am. Those likeing new and different aircraft will want to mark this news on their calendars! Here's a link:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

bb

Are the hangars and warehouses on either side of the Commuter Terminal going to remain in place or be moved further east?

I doubt DL will be able to make as much profit with the 333 as they did with the 764.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:38 am

SANFan wrote:
I see on RoutesOnline, that DL is planning scheduled A333 service between SAN and ATL next March! It says it will op for part of the month 6x weekly (X6) and will be on the ground in SAN from about 10am - 11am. Those likeing new and different aircraft will want to mark this news on their calendars! Here's a link:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

bb


A perfect replacement for the HA A330 that goes away in January! Whatever happened to the DL 767-400 that was flying the SAN-ATL run?
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:43 am

blacksoviet wrote:
I doubt DL will be able to make as much profit with the 333 as they did with the 764.


Why not?
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:47 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I doubt DL will be able to make as much profit with the 333 as they did with the 764.


Why not?

the 333 is harder to fill and consumes more fuel.
 
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rjsampson
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Not sure if that has been brought up before, but one of the biggest complaints about SAN is that the light rail service (which is literally withing a quarter mile) doesn't go to the airport.

Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:36 pm

rjsampson wrote:
Not sure if that has been brought up before...

Just go back a few pages on this thread and you'll see the answer to your question! ;)

It's brought up a lot on this thread, trust me... and, in fact, during almost any discussion anywhere about our airport and ground transportation to and from!

The second most common point of debate is the fact that I-5 is about the same distance away from SAN as the light rail system, also with no direct exit or connection.

At least you seem to understand the San Diego mantra: why work on the problem now? That's what the future was invented for. (I'm a native; I've experienced that philosophy all my life here!)

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:53 pm

rjsampson wrote:
Not sure if that has been brought up before, but one of the biggest complaints about SAN is that the light rail service (which is literally withing a quarter mile) doesn't go to the airport.

Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!

Even if the Airport Authority bought MCRD and built a railway station, the train would still have to take the passengers to Washington Street where the existing tracks are. They would also be on the wrong side of the runway and have to take the rental car bus around the perimeter of the airport. It would be easier to walk from the Washington Street Station to the rental car building and get on the shuttle.
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:12 am

Was listening to ATC SAN tower today to hear how our airport operated during the presidential visit with Marine One operations from Miramar for a function downtown and then leaving downtown for the border. I was very impressed with the precision to get commercial traffic in and out of the airport. Flights were tightly bunched around the two closures and there were lots of "immediate" takeoffs with visual observation of the preceding takeoff. Also lots of long rolls on landings down to B9/10 to keep the B taxiway flowing. Throw in a medical back to the gate on a departing Alaska flight mixed in, it sounded very busy. There were lots of "well done" radio traffic between planes and the tower, I echo those comments to the controllers in the tower with our one runway!
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:12 pm

757SanCam wrote:
Was listening to ATC SAN tower today to hear how our airport operated during the presidential visit with Marine One operations from Miramar for a function downtown and then leaving downtown for the border. I was very impressed with the precision to get commercial traffic in and out of the airport. Flights were tightly bunched around the two closures and there were lots of "immediate" takeoffs with visual observation of the preceding takeoff. Also lots of long rolls on landings down to B9/10 to keep the B taxiway flowing. Throw in a medical back to the gate on a departing Alaska flight mixed in, it sounded very busy. There were lots of "well done" radio traffic between planes and the tower, I echo those comments to the controllers in the tower with our one runway!

That would have been fun to listen to. Thanx for sharing.

I always enjoy sitting at the airport listening to the tower and watching op's - talk about a well-oiled machine. Thank goodness there aren't too many wx issues in San Diego -- occasional fog, t-storms, and strong Santana (easterly) winds that require switching "runways" -- to mess up the beautiful flow and balance that we normally see! Those tower personnel deserve gold stars and big raises!

Comparing our airport to places like JFK and LAX, etc., it's a whole different world but SAN is no less stressful I'm sure, and just as impressive...

bb
 
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lindy field
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:24 pm

Hi all,

I've been quietly following this thread for some time. I'd love to get some clarification or details about the following statement:
Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!


In case you didn't see it, I'd also like to point out that in the "Virgin Atlantic Mega Master" thread, KSAN is listed as one of the airports that Virgin Atlantic would like to serve from LHR “if the Government reforms the way new Heathrow slots are allocated to enable the creation of a second flag carrier at the airport”. See the original linked article here:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/virgin-atlantic-unveils-plans-for-new-routes-including-in-the-us/?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=56D195A6-D99F-11E9-92C8-5DEF4744363C&utm_medium=social&utm_term=editorial&utm_campaign=thepointsguy

I was excited to hear about Delta using the A330 on scheduled flights to SAN even if it's only for a short period. Perhaps it's a trial run by Delta for future domestic or international ops from SAN with the A330?


Cheers,

Edward
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:41 pm

lindy field wrote:
Hi all,

I've been quietly following this thread for some time. I'd love to get some clarification or details about the following statement:
Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!



https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/bu ... story.html

Basically the plan would be to acquire SPAWAR’s complex of World War II era hangars in Old Town near MCRD and Old Town Transit Center. It is a superfund (cleanup site) because of TCE. It would “combine the SPAWAR land with the existing Old Town Transit Center to create a 120-acre, mixed-use development. That project would be theoretically funded by multiple regional agencies and developed through a public-private partnership. As envisioned, the Grand Central transit hub would sit at the nexus of a larger project (with to-be-determined housing and office elements), and bring together all current and future rail options. Included in the hub would be a people mover to shuttle commuters to and from San Diego International Airport’s two terminals”
You're either gonna love me or hate me. There is no in between with me.
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 pm

lindy field wrote:
Hi all,

I've been quietly following this thread for some time. I'd love to get some clarification or details about the following statement:
Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!


In case you didn't see it, I'd also like to point out that in the "Virgin Atlantic Mega Master" thread, KSAN is listed as one of the airports that Virgin Atlantic would like to serve from LHR “if the Government reforms the way new Heathrow slots are allocated to enable the creation of a second flag carrier at the airport”. See the original linked article here:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/virgin-atlantic-unveils-plans-for-new-routes-including-in-the-us/?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=56D195A6-D99F-11E9-92C8-5DEF4744363C&utm_medium=social&utm_term=editorial&utm_campaign=thepointsguy

I was excited to hear about Delta using the A330 on scheduled flights to SAN even if it's only for a short period. Perhaps it's a trial run by Delta for future domestic or international ops from SAN with the A330?


Cheers,

Edward


Thanks for the info. From what I hear, LHR-SAN does very well in terms of passenger yields so additional capacity between LHR and SAN is likely in the future (VS states around 2026) if officials allow for the construction of a third runway at LHR. And regarding the DL A333, really looking forward to capturing photo/video in March. The 763/764 have also made appearances in the last few years as well so perhaps this could be a trial for future ops (*cough* CDG or AMS *cough*), or it could just be more seats for those select days to ATL. :)
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:57 pm

lindy field wrote:
Hi all,
In case you didn't see it, I'd also like to point out that in the "Virgin Atlantic Mega Master" thread, KSAN is listed as one of the airports that Virgin Atlantic would like to serve from LHR “if the Government reforms the way new Heathrow slots are allocated to enable the creation of a second flag carrier at the airport”.

I was excited to hear about Delta using the A330 on scheduled flights to SAN even if it's only for a short period. Perhaps it's a trial run by Delta for future domestic or international ops from SAN with the A330?


Cheers,
Edward

Hey Lindy', how ya doin'? Haven't seen you post for a while.

I know that years ago, about the days of Zoom; or shortly thereafter, there was quite a bit of chatter about Virgin really wanting to start serving SAN. That was also between BA's attempt to make their service work here. Of course, Virgin never did get around to us, then BA settled the situation! (And they keep solidifying that situation!)

Also, Thomas Cook was talked about quite a bit about starting MAN-SAN and that never happened. I have wondered if DL could possibly be considering it -- in consideration of your second thought above -- but of course Virgin would almost be the same thing.

In any case, I believe SAN could handle another carrier with some level of service to England (at some airport.) After all, having a year-round 747 as our current (only) flight to London does say something about the success Speedbird is experiencing.

Yeah, maybe DL's bringing in the A333 to see if it fits! ;) Or to paint the gates correctly. But yes, as I said, maybe they do have some intl stuff in mind... It's been I think a year or two since any of the 767s flew in here regularly so I think it's either a larger a/c or they'd need additional trips on nb jets at that same time to carry all the traffic. It does seem that DL continues to have a very successful operation here. (I just wish they'd do some sort of p-2-p flying from here...)

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:43 am

Is Terminal 2 East now a hub for Alaska? Where did Allegiant move to? They owned Gate 30.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:59 am

SANFan wrote:

In any case, I believe SAN could handle another carrier with some level of service to England (at some airport.) After all, having a year-round 747 as our current (only) flight to London does say something about the success Speedbird is experiencing.

bb

I'm a little cautious, if we were to get another LHR flight, from another carrier, BA might downgrade their planes to a 787, and kiss the 777s and 747s goodbye! BA did exactly that in PHX when AA started up PHX-LHR, I believe that's where our year-round 747 will be coming from. If Virgin announced SAN-LGW or SAN-MAN (SANMAN), then I would be more intrigued. I was thinking we would see the likes of Norwegian starting up SAN-LGW, or if Virgin Atlantic announcing LGW.
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:06 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
I'm a little cautious, if we were to get another LHR flight, from another carrier, BA might downgrade their planes to a 787, and kiss the 777s and 747s goodbye! BA did exactly that in PHX when AA started up PHX-LHR, I believe that's where our year-round 747 will be coming from. If Virgin announced SAN-LGW or SAN-MAN (SANMAN), then I would be more intrigued. I was thinking we would see the likes of Norwegian starting up SAN-LGW, or if Virgin Atlantic announcing LGW.

Well sure, IF more LON service materializes, it would have some sort of effect on Speedbird -- perhaps permanently, or maybe just temporary.

Cargo needs to be considered. I have no idea how that business is but if it's significant, perhaps a downgrade to a 787 might not be up to the job. I believe there's a great difference in belly cargo capacity between the 747, 777 and 787. (I might very well be wrong about that.)

There's also the consideration of the alliances involved. In the case of PHX, BA and AA are both in the OneWorld but I doubt very much that AA would begin service between SAN and LHR. So even if VS, Norwegian or Thomas Cook, or whomever, starts flying SAN-LON (either Gatwick or Heathrow or even Manchester) BA might actually see only a slight decrease in customers since they would be THE OneWorld carrier on the route..

Finally, depending on how much BA traffic is connections-beyond-LHR, that perhaps would see little decrease in traffic. Again, if a OneWorld flyer needs to fly to Europe, the Middle East, India, etc., he/she would still undoubtedly stay with BA. If VS gets into the market, then the SkyTeam travelers would probably use them. Sure, the O&D traffic between SAN & LON might see some migration to another (cheaper?) carrier but that might not be enough for BA to fly a smaller Speedbird here.

Just some thoughts L-Man. I really think at this point, Speedbird has a very nice, secure lock on a lot of traffic heading in that direction and I think it would take a major effort by other carriers to knock them out of their position.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:20 am

I think the 77W can carry more cargo than the 747-400. If somebody wants to go to India I think it is faster and cheaper to fly Japan Airlines via NRT or Hainan Airlines via TIJ and PEK.
 
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lindy field
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:58 am

Hey bb, it's true I don't post as much as I once did, but I'm often lurking. And I still get down to SAN a few times a year to visit family and go planespotting, so you
could say all's well. Aside from the Delta A330 and Virgin Atlantic speculation, I'll also add the possibility of Delta starting a nonstop flight to BOS as part of
Delta's build-up of operations there. My guess would be a morning departure from SAN to connect with the evening bank of flights across the Atlantic. You mentioned
that you wish DL would do some p-2-p flying from SAN and they do have the Connection flights to LAS. AUS and SJC as designated focus cities could also be outside possibilities but gate space at SAN could be an issue at peak times.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:13 am

rjsampson wrote:
Looks like the Port has purchased a disused Military Base on Pacific Highway, to be a staging ground for construction of that rail line. Time will only tell how long THAT project will take!


What the Navy did in downtown San Diego was to give most of a prime 15 acre building lot (3 acres for streets) to a developer (billionaire Doug Manchester) in exchange for him building a 372,000 square foot office building for the Navy employees for $160 million (bldg #3 in the plan below). With the remaining 8 city blocks the developer wanted to build a complex for over a billion dollars with up to 29 floor buildings for two hotels, office and retail etc. (see video and weblink)

http://manchesterpacificgateway.com/site_plan.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... mmPP7GaIOU

The lot near the airport is roughly 5X as large (77 acres), but the Navy wants a 1.5 million square foot office building (nearly 5X the downtown lot). Assuming the price goes up by a factor of 5X, that means the developer has to spend $800 million for the Navy building. He is going to want maximum return on that kind of investment.

The issue of course is that building height limitations near the airport will be more stringent (no 29 story buildings), and the neighborhood is old industrial instead of prime waterfront. The developer will not be able to build anything as grand as the plan for downtown.
Now the city wants a big chunk of that land for transportation, in addition to inevitable requests for parkland.

The height limitations and the price of constructing a 1.5 million square foot building for the Navy means that no developer is going to be interested.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:48 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
A perfect replacement for the HA A330 that goes away in January!


HA Airbus A330-200 18F+ 68S+192Y=278 seats (daily)

The article actually say from 11MAR20 to 31MAR20, 1 of 5 daily service (weekday frequencies) to be operated by Airbus A330-300 aircraft, except Saturdays. That sounds like three flights to me. Not very exciting.
 
san747
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:09 am

PacoMartin wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
A perfect replacement for the HA A330 that goes away in January!


HA Airbus A330-200 18F+ 68S+192Y=278 seats (daily)

The article actually say from 11MAR20 to 31MAR20, 1 of 5 daily service (weekday frequencies) to be operated by Airbus A330-300 aircraft, except Saturdays. That sounds like three flights to me. Not very exciting.


Well it's essentially daily, except Saturdays, for a 3-week period. I count there will be 18 flights with the A330 in that time. Wish there were more, but it's better than 3... or zero.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:22 am

san747 wrote:
Well it's essentially daily, except Saturdays, for a 3-week period. I count there will be 18 flights with the A330 in that time. Wish there were more, but it's better than 3... or zero.


Mea Culpa, you are correct.

Ten hour round trip weekdays. Configured with 34 Delta One instead of 20 First Class on an A321.
8:10am arrival time 10:00am (westbound ATL-> SAN)
10:59am arrival time 6:12pm (eastbound SAN -> ATL)

If they keep that up Delta could move Atlanta ahead of DFW and ORD as the biggest Eastern destination for San Diego travellers.
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas 497,000 American, Spirit
Chicago–O'Hare, Illinois 475,000 American, Spirit, United

Big 7 for SAN (July 2018 – June 2019)
1 San Francisco, California 909,000 Alaska, Southwest, United -- 447 miles
2 Denver, Colorado 650,000 Frontier, Southwest, Spirit, United -- 853 miles
3 Seattle/Tacoma, Washington 642,000 Alaska, Delta, Southwest -- 1050 miles
4 Phoenix–Sky Harbor, Arizona 635,000 American, Southwest -- 304 miles
5 San Jose, California 602,000 Alaska, Southwest -- 417 miles
6 Las Vegas, Nevada 595,000 Delta, Southwest, Spirit -- 258 miles
7 Sacramento, California 576,000 Alaska, Southwest -- 480 miles
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:48 pm

SANFan wrote:

There's also the consideration of the alliances involved. In the case of PHX, BA and AA are both in the OneWorld but I doubt very much that AA would begin service between SAN and LHR.
bb


It's not outside the realm of possibility of AA starting up a SAN-LHR flight, there's RDU-LHR and RDU is not a Oneworld hub, or a focus city for AA, (although RDU used to be an AA hub during the 80s.) On the other hand, AA probably started up the PHX-LHR flight to handle most of the cargo, while BA is taking care of the pax side? Maybe there were too many passengers and more cargo for BA to handle?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:14 pm

I would think that the advantage of this new A330-300 flight beginning in March would be a connection to Europe (possibly same equipment)
DL1692 ATL 0810 – 1000 SAN 333 x6
DL1692 SAN 1059 – 1812 ATL 333 x6

But I can't seem to find one. I checked London, Paris, and Amsterdam, but all connections are on an A321 via ATL and on to Europe. For instance eastbound:

DL1534 SAN 0800 – 1514 ATL 321 - layover 87minute
DL82 ATL 1641 – 0610 CDG 333 - overnight
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:48 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Is Terminal 2 East now a hub for Alaska? Where did Allegiant move to? They owned Gate 30.


I don't know that I'd describe it as a hub, but Terminal 2 East is now where Alaska operates from. Allegiant is in Terminal 1 West now.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:36 pm

Am I the only one who is leery of a second carrier on SAN-LHR? The possible trashing of yields on this route might kill off both carriers from SAN entirely. I'm not opposed to competition; however, SAN is relying entirely on its own local market (meaning O&D), and anything that upsets the balance could mean we lose it forever.

Personally, I'd love to see split AMS & CDG flights from SAN before we get another carrier on the LHR route.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:47 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
There's also the consideration of the alliances involved. In the case of PHX, BA and AA are both in the OneWorld but I doubt very much that AA would begin service between SAN and LHR.
bb

It's not outside the realm of possibility of AA starting up a SAN-LHR flight, there's RDU-LHR and RDU is not a Oneworld hub, or a focus city for AA, (although RDU used to be an AA hub during the 80s.) On the other hand, AA probably started up the PHX-LHR flight to handle most of the cargo, while BA is taking care of the pax side? Maybe there were too many passengers and more cargo for BA to handle?

But remember L-Man, PHX is an AA hub so flying their own metal isn't a surprise. OneWorld must figure there's enough traffic -- pax as well as cargo -- to maintain service by both member carriers.

And who knows, maybe there was suspicion that another carrier, from another alliance, was thinking about PHX-LON so OneWorld decided to 'flood' the market to discourage such a move.

lindy field wrote:
Hey bb, it's true I don't post as much as I once did, but I'm often lurking. And I still get down to SAN a few times a year to visit family and go planespotting, so you
could say all's well.

I'll also add the possibility of Delta starting a nonstop flight to BOS as part of Delta's build-up of operations there. My guess would be a morning departure from SAN to connect with the evening bank of flights across the Atlantic. You mentioned that you wish DL would do some p-2-p flying from SAN and they do have the Connection flights to LAS. AUS and SJC as designated focus cities could also be outside possibilities but gate space at SAN could be an issue at peak times.

Well Lindy', it's always great to hear from you so keep lurking but please continue to speak up once in a while!

Yes, the possibility of DL starting SAN-BOS is mentioned sometimes. The sked you mention would put their departure right on top of AS but it wouldn't affect Blue very much (since no matter how many flights B6 seems to add, there's never a morning SAN departure to BOS.) And I'm sure DL wouldn't mind irritating AS in a west coast market anyway! Of course this may also be a consideration as to why AS is finally going daily-double in the market -- to attempt to keep up with B6 and maybe try to discourage DL from entering it.

Yes, technically SAN-LAS is a p-2-p route on DL but I consider LAS to be at least a key city for DL and they have connected Vegas with several other western cities so I don't count that as strictly p-2-p service. Of course my logic also says that someday, we could possibly see DL fly to AUS, SJC and/or even RDU and IND from here. (Those last 2 cities are crying for decent service, way beyond what see currently; not really any serious competition IMO.) Both SJC and AUS are pretty well served so DL would certainly face some competition -- including AS! -- but since SAN is a pretty large and healthy outstation for DL, I'm sure the SkyTeam frequent corporate travelers in all cities involved would appreciate the option of DL service.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:59 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
The issue of course is that building height limitations near the airport will be more stringent (no 29 story buildings), and the neighborhood is old industrial instead of prime waterfront.


The city wants to redevelop pretty much the entire area. https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/ ... 2018_0.pdf
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:22 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
The city wants to redevelop pretty much the entire area.


I read somewhere that they want to radically increase population in the area. Right now there are 50K people within a two mile radius and 130K people living within a three mile radius. If they move another 50K people nearby they are going to have so many complaints.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:28 am

lindy field wrote:
I'll also add the possibility of Delta starting a nonstop flight to BOS as part of Delta's build-up of operations there. My guess would be a morning departure from SAN to connect with the evening bank of flights across the Atlantic.

Hey Lindy', I assume you've seen today's new thread about a rumor that DL might be announcing new BOS routes soon?

Maybe your wish, dream, hunch or simply an unfounded prediction will come true soon! I just posted over there with a vote for SAN. We'll see what happens...

Keep your crystal ball dusted off and oiled up!

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:33 am

SANFan wrote:
lindy field wrote:
I'll also add the possibility of Delta starting a nonstop flight to BOS as part of Delta's build-up of operations there. My guess would be a morning departure from SAN to connect with the evening bank of flights across the Atlantic.

Hey Lindy', I assume you've seen today's new thread about a rumor that DL might be announcing new BOS routes soon?

Maybe your wish, dream, hunch or simply an unfounded prediction will come true soon! I just posted over there with a vote for SAN. We'll see what happens...

Keep your crystal ball dusted off and oiled up!

bb

Does the 739 have enough range to reach BOS? Could Delta fill a plane that large?
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:38 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 739 have enough range to reach BOS? Could Delta fill a plane that large?

If not, they could certainly use one of their brand new 220s.

bb

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