NateGreat
Topic Author
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Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:55 pm

I found some links regarding possible speculation on the business class product that will be used on Delta’s new Airbus A330-900neo aircraft.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/is-delta-plann ... 0neo-fleet

https://news.get.com/key-detail-delta-n ... es-leaked/
 
PotatoPappas
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:02 pm

Ive heard its getting Suties, PE, Comfort Plus, and Y
 
winginit
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:11 pm

My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)
 
jrkmsp
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:18 pm

winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:25 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.


Are you sure? I have not yet been on one, but per this article...

Delta is adding 48 of its new international style premium economy seats, which the airline has branded as “Delta Premium Select.” The cabin features more than just extra legroom, with specially designed seats that include extra space, recliner features and come with some premium amenities. With the introduction of Delta Premium Select onto the retrofitted 777s, Delta will not include any of its extra legroom Comfort+ seats in the new layout.
 
PotatoPappas
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:47 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.



It ahs Premium Select but do you have a source backing the Comfort +? Non of the other 777s have it, nor did I hear any plans about them getting it...
 
winginit
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:17 pm

PotatoPappas wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.



It ahs Premium Select but do you have a source backing the Comfort +? Non of the other 777s have it, nor did I hear any plans about them getting it...


Further confirmation that there is no Comfort+ on the retrofitted 777s here.

Like the A350, the retrofitted 777s do not have any Comfort+ seating
 
CMH2578
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:32 pm

Hello, new here :champagne:

Investor Day presentation indicated that the first "five class" aircraft would arrive this week (D1 suite, PS, C+, Y, Y-). Though Y- isn't a cabin.

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/10 ... 6623558656

In an August 2018 interview, Ed Bastian indicated that the Delta One suite is going across the entire international fleet 777s, 764s, running through the entire 767 fleet, and the A330s. The goal is to have the suite the standard Delta business class product by 2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzxCNB3Xt4s

Delta's news release regarding the additional 10 A330neos indicate they will have D1 suites, PS, C+, Y, Y-.

https://news.delta.com/delta-orders-10- ... red-growth
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:51 pm

winginit wrote:
PotatoPappas wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:

The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.



It ahs Premium Select but do you have a source backing the Comfort +? Non of the other 777s have it, nor did I hear any plans about them getting it...


Further confirmation that there is no Comfort+ on the retrofitted 777s here.

Like the A350, the retrofitted 777s do not have any Comfort+ seating



We’re talking about the A339, a product that has yet to be delivered to DL. This is the first “new” opportunity since the original A350/B777 Suite announcement was made. In the original rollout of the suites and Premium Select, EC+ was specifically ommited from the aircraft- with the A339, DL May be making a decision to add EC+ To have more “premium seats” available for purchase.

I do believe for all future wide body retrofits and additions at DL, business will be lie flat suites. The suites don’t take up much more room than a standard Lie flat/ all aisle configuration, but the door adds a lot of additional value to the experience.
Boiler Up!
 
winginit
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:57 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
We’re talking about the A339, a product that has yet to be delivered to DL. This is the first “new” opportunity since the original A350/B777 Suite announcement was made. In the original rollout of the suites and Premium Select, EC+ was specifically ommited from the aircraft- with the A339, DL May be making a decision to add EC+ To have more “premium seats” available for purchase.


Correct. As has been stated:

350: Delta One Suites, DPS, No Comfort+
777 Retrofit: Delta One Suites, DPS, No Comfort+
339: Delta One Suites, DPS, Comfort+

Web500sjc wrote:
I do believe for all future wide body retrofits and additions at DL, business will be lie flat suites. The suites don’t take up much more room than a standard Lie flat/ all aisle configuration, but the door adds a lot of additional value to the experience.


Agreed. Delta does not hide the fact that they're big on consistency.
 
questions
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:11 am

Will D1 on the A330-900NEO be 1-2-1? If so, is the space to install coming from the aisles? Or will the pods be narrower?

Are there any D1 differences between the 777 and 359?
 
PotatoPappas
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:56 am

questions wrote:
Will D1 on the A330-900NEO be 1-2-1? If so, is the space to install coming from the aisles? Or will the pods be narrower?

Are there any D1 differences between the 777 and 359?



I assume yes, it will be 1-2-1. Maybe There are minor differences, the suites are wider, and have more charging outlets. Delta asked passengers who flew on the A350 for feedback on what they can improve on for the 777.
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:07 am

What if Delta installed a reverse herringbone seat that featured doors? It would be a completely new design, but fit in the A330-900. Having the door would keep with the “suite” product. That’s a long shot but its a thought
 
NateGreat
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:36 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
What if Delta installed a reverse herringbone seat that featured doors? It would be a completely new design, but fit in the A330-900. Having the door would keep with the “suite” product. That’s a long shot but its a thought

The Panasonic Waterfront would definitely be a great choice, as it is both angled toward the windows/walls like the reverse herringbone, but also features a sliding door. Not sure about seat size versus cabin width issues, but at least something similar to this.

https://thepointsguy.com/2016/04/panaso ... lass-seat/
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:16 am

winginit wrote:
Agreed. Delta does not hide the fact that they're big on consistency.


It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:38 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
winginit wrote:
Agreed. Delta does not hide the fact that they're big on consistency.


It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.


I think that Delta could put their suites of a narrow body in a 1x1 layout if they wanted. Would they ever do that? I don’t know, but it is possible
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:34 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
winginit wrote:
Agreed. Delta does not hide the fact that they're big on consistency.


It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.


Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:09 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
winginit wrote:
Agreed. Delta does not hide the fact that they're big on consistency.


It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.


Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.


Actually, consistent does mean the exact same.

While Delta is consistent in offering lie flat seats with aisle access across its widebody fleet, there is little consistency in the quality of the product or customer experience.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:52 pm

So says the grumpy United flyer, with more garbage CR2/E145 flying and less AVOD.
 
questions
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:16 pm

sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.


Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.


Actually, consistent does mean the exact same.

While Delta is consistent in offering lie flat seats with aisle access across its widebody fleet, there is little consistency in the quality of the product or customer experience.


Actually, it depends on what consistent is based.

If based on D1 offering lie-flat seats across the fleet, DL is consistent.

If based on D1 offering the same seat across the fleet, DL is inconsistent.

While sxf24 is correct, in corporate speak, consistent can mean that an initiative, deliverable, etc follows the guidance given, expectations of, principles of or alignment to something else. In other words an exact match beyond some point is not necessary. For example, the XYZ project objectives are consistent with the company’s strategic direction. Are the project’s objectives explicitly called out in the company’s strategy? No. Can an educated, informed individual read both and determine that they are consistent? Yes.

The engineer- and literal-types yearning for precision in everything always struggle with this. It’s too fuzzy. They want same same same.

Those in the corporate world who appreciate that the world is imperfect, 80/20 is good enough, and wiggle room can be advantageous understand “consistent.”
 
questions
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:33 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.


DL does NOT hide its award chart.

DL does not have an award chart.

DL can not hide something it does not have.

Awards are based on current market value of available seats in a given cabin class. Predictive algorithms translate the cost of available seats from dollars to SkyMiles. The algorithms factor into the conversion lost opportunity for additional revenue for each seat potentially sold in an effort to manage award demand. Demand is aggressively managed so that DL can minimize negative impact to the top line for its SkyMiles award program.
 
EChid
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:34 pm

sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

It’s a bit much to say DL is big on consistency when they have 4 different Delta One configurations in service. I understand they want to move to one layout, but the suites will never fit on the 757’s or any narrowbodies, so they’ll always have at least two configurations as long as DL flies narrowbodies with a business class cabin.

On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.

The only thing DL is big on is being inconsistent.


Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.


Actually, consistent does mean the exact same.

While Delta is consistent in offering lie-flat seats with aisle access across its widebody fleet, there is little consistency in the quality of the product or customer experience.

From a Y perspective: Their product is very consistent. AVOD and fresh-looking interiors no matter whether it's a 737, 321, 767, 757, etc. Easily the most consistent of the legacy airlines, and the nicest.

From the J perspective: DL is crystal clear on their product variations. An airline that large is going to have variations in products, period. In the A330/767 you'll be guaranteed aisle access from all seats, a lay flatbed, and a nice modern IFE system. That is consistent across the fleet, and the variation in reverse herringbone/other is not materially significant to matter. You still get the same essential features. They call it Delta One. If you're flying in an aircraft equipped with closing doors, they call it Delta One Suites. It's plainly stated on their site, and very clear. You'll see it at booking. UA does nothing to clarify what seat you're getting, no differentiation between Polaris hard-product versus not...so you have no idea until you see a seat map (and that assumes people can recognize Polaris seating by seat map), and AA does absolutely nothing to clarify the difference between their brand new 787s and their shabby 767s that don't even feature integrated IFE.

I just really don't see your point as valid.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
questions
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:55 pm

EChid wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:

Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.


Actually, consistent does mean the exact same.

While Delta is consistent in offering lie-flat seats with aisle access across its widebody fleet, there is little consistency in the quality of the product or customer experience.

From a Y perspective: Their product is very consistent. AVOD and fresh-looking interiors no matter whether it's a 737, 321, 767, 757, etc. Easily the most consistent of the legacy airlines, and the nicest.

From the J perspective: DL is crystal clear on their product variations. An airline that large is going to have variations in products, period. In the A330/767 you'll be guaranteed aisle access from all seats, a lay flatbed, and a nice modern IFE system. That is consistent across the fleet, and the variation in reverse herringbone/other is not materially significant to matter. You still get the same essential features. They call it Delta One. If you're flying in an aircraft equipped with closing doors, they call it Delta One Suites. It's plainly stated on their site, and very clear. You'll see it at booking. UA does nothing to clarify what seat you're getting, no differentiation between Polaris hard-product versus not...so you have no idea until you see a seat map (and that assumes people can recognize Polaris seating by seat map), and AA does absolutely nothing to clarify the difference between their brand new 787s and their shabby 767s that don't even feature integrated IFE.

I just really don't see your point as valid.


While I think we’re on the same page with the term consistent, you also introduce another important concept. Transparency.

In your example above, DL does a much better job than UA in transparency. It is much easier to manage the customer experience when expectations are met. DL uses transparency to establish expectations that in turn lead to a better experience.

UA on the other hand markets a sophisticated Polaris product; makes the customer guess as to whether or not they will receive the marketed offering; disappoints the customer when they board and see a dated United Business product; creates an atmosphere of bait and switch; is exponentially dinged by the disappointed customer for any slightly off onboard service delivery; and therefore kills the customer experience — all from a lack of transparency.
 
EChid
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:17 pm

questions wrote:
While I think we’re on the same page with the term consistent, you also introduce another important concept. Transparency.

In your example above, DL does a much better job than UA in transparency. It is much easier to manage the customer experience when expectations are met. DL uses transparency to establish expectations that in turn lead to a better experience.

UA on the other hand markets a sophisticated Polaris product; makes the customer guess as to whether or not they will receive the marketed offering; disappoints the customer when they board and see a dated United Business product; creates an atmosphere of bait and switch; is exponentially dinged by the disappointed customer for any slightly off onboard service delivery; and therefore kills the customer experience — all from a lack of transparency.

Well said. People often get defensive about critiquing of the Polaris rollout. The issue has never been with the fact that it's only present on some aircraft, the issue is with the fact that they aren't honest about where you will and won't get it. DL's rollout of the Suite has been equally as slow, if not more so, but there has been much less to critique because they've been clear about it.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:43 pm

EChid wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:

Someone is mad. What does not showing award chart have to do with consistency? Delta is very consistent with their branding and customer experience. Consistent doesn’t mean it has to be the exact same.

Virgin is consistent with their customer experience but each fleet has minor differences. The 330 will be consistent with the newest planes but surely it’ll be configured to fit a 330.


Actually, consistent does mean the exact same.

While Delta is consistent in offering lie-flat seats with aisle access across its widebody fleet, there is little consistency in the quality of the product or customer experience.

From a Y perspective: Their product is very consistent. AVOD and fresh-looking interiors no matter whether it's a 737, 321, 767, 757, etc. Easily the most consistent of the legacy airlines, and the nicest.

From the J perspective: DL is crystal clear on their product variations. An airline that large is going to have variations in products, period. In the A330/767 you'll be guaranteed aisle access from all seats, a lay flatbed, and a nice modern IFE system. That is consistent across the fleet, and the variation in reverse herringbone/other is not materially significant to matter. You still get the same essential features. They call it Delta One. If you're flying in an aircraft equipped with closing doors, they call it Delta One Suites. It's plainly stated on their site, and very clear. You'll see it at booking. UA does nothing to clarify what seat you're getting, no differentiation between Polaris hard-product versus not...so you have no idea until you see a seat map (and that assumes people can recognize Polaris seating by seat map), and AA does absolutely nothing to clarify the difference between their brand new 787s and their shabby 767s that don't even feature integrated IFE.

I just really don't see your point as valid.


I am a Delta Diamond Medallion mostly earned through US-Europe flights in D1 so I think my point is valid.

I go out of my way to book DL on the A330 because the seat is far superior to the 767. While both lie flat and have all aisle access, there is no comparison between the seats in the amount of personal space and privacy. The IFE and open space to move around at Door 1 also make the A330 a superior D1 experience.

The lack of consistency is understandable and not unexpected. Delta may be the most consistent U.S. airline, but the are not consistent.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:47 pm

EChid wrote:
From a Y perspective: Their product is very consistent. AVOD and fresh-looking interiors no matter whether it's a 737, 321, 767, 757, etc. Easily the most consistent of the legacy airlines, and the nicest.

From the J perspective: DL is crystal clear on their product variations. An airline that large is going to have variations in products, period. In the A330/767 you'll be guaranteed aisle access from all seats, a lay flatbed, and a nice modern IFE system. That is consistent across the fleet, and the variation in reverse herringbone/other is not materially significant to matter. You still get the same essential features. They call it Delta One. If you're flying in an aircraft equipped with closing doors, they call it Delta One Suites. It's plainly stated on their site, and very clear. You'll see it at booking. UA does nothing to clarify what seat you're getting, no differentiation between Polaris hard-product versus not...so you have no idea until you see a seat map (and that assumes people can recognize Polaris seating by seat map), and AA does absolutely nothing to clarify the difference between their brand new 787s and their shabby 767s that don't even feature integrated IFE.

I just really don't see your point as valid.


Your points aren't valid and only spread a false perception of DL and other airlines.

Let's look at the mainline fleet by fleet in Y:
A350 - no Y+
777: Either aging interior (seats/PTVs) with Y+, or new interior without Y+ until cabin mods are complete.
A330: Consistent within its fleet.
767: Most 763ERs have new seats/PTVs, but some have old seats/PTVs; 764s have old seats/PTVs
757: some of the refurbished domestic fleet have recycled old Seats/PTVs. There's other interior variations between subfleets, but IMO not worth mentioning.
737: 739 is consistent within itself. 738 isn't consistent to either. Close to half has old seats/PTVs, the other portion with older seats with new PTVs.
A321: Consistent
A320: Finally consistent with the last now getting PTVs.
A319: Consistent to itself and the A320
717: No PTVs
MD-90: No PTVs, dated seats
MD-88 No PTVs, dated seats

It's a big stretch to say DL is very consistent and easily the most consistent among the legacies in Y. That title might go to UA, and at least AA has long-term plans to be the most consistent. But none hold a candle to a true consistent carrier like WN. DL is quite inconsistent in Y yet, although it has significantly improved in recent years. Unfortunately there's no immediate plans to make them truly consistent.

J products: Don't spread misinformation. It's laughable and hypocritical to state that variations in J seats isn't materially significant (or the 767 has a "nice modern IFE system"), and then turn around and punish UA and AA for allegedly not being clear on what you're getting, implying that variations do matter! Search for a D1 flight on a 757 or 767. If you want more information about the D1 product, you'll be shown an A330 J seat, a clear and deliberate misrepresentation of the product. DL has been the leader in deliberately misrepresenting their product when you book a flight. Like D1 isn't a seat, Polaris isn't a seat either. UA is clear when you will have a flight with Polaris inflight amenities and when you will not, and they do not show the new seat associated with Polaris on their booking page unless it's actually the seat you are booking. That's a clear departure from DL's practice.

And I'm not even going to touch the premium economy angle where DL is going to be the slowest to gain a measure of consistency in availability among its widebody aircraft.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:51 pm

winginit wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.


Are you sure? I have not yet been on one, but per this article...

Delta is adding 48 of its new international style premium economy seats, which the airline has branded as “Delta Premium Select.” The cabin features more than just extra legroom, with specially designed seats that include extra space, recliner features and come with some premium amenities. With the introduction of Delta Premium Select onto the retrofitted 777s, Delta will not include any of its extra legroom Comfort+ seats in the new layout.


PotatoPappas wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.



It ahs Premium Select but do you have a source backing the Comfort +? Non of the other 777s have it, nor did I hear any plans about them getting it...



winginit wrote:
PotatoPappas wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:

The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.



It ahs Premium Select but do you have a source backing the Comfort +? Non of the other 777s have it, nor did I hear any plans about them getting it...


Further confirmation that there is no Comfort+ on the retrofitted 777s here.

Like the A350, the retrofitted 777s do not have any Comfort+ seating



Yeah, it was announced last week at Investor Day that the first "five cabin plane" (D1S, PS, C+, Main Cabin, Basic Economy) would arrive this week:

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/10 ... 6623558656

And Bastian told the WSJ over the summer that the existing 777s were flying around with extra legroom in main cabin, pending an adjustment to add C+ back. See this article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-airli ... 1532441990

I don't know if the existing 359s have extra room as well, though I am interested to find that out.
 
questions
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:55 pm

When DL installs D1 Suite, PS and C+ will they further reduce pitch in the main cabin?
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 pm

questions wrote:
When DL installs D1 Suite, PS and C+ will they further reduce pitch in the main cabin?

no. Pitch in the main cabin will stay the same.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1506
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:16 am

questions wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
On top of cabin configurations DL also hides its award chart - another area where they have zero consistency and purposefully structure it that way.


DL does NOT hide its award chart.

DL does not have an award chart.

DL can not hide something it does not have.

Awards are based on current market value of available seats in a given cabin class. Predictive algorithms translate the cost of available seats from dollars to SkyMiles. The algorithms factor into the conversion lost opportunity for additional revenue for each seat potentially sold in an effort to manage award demand. Demand is aggressively managed so that DL can minimize negative impact to the top line for its SkyMiles award program.


You have no idea what you’re talking about. Let me help you out and provide a source further supporting DL hides its award chart:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... er-awards/
 
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Alphazone
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:38 am

MSPNWA wrote:
767: Most 763ERs have new seats/PTVs, but some have old seats/PTVs;

Seems like you are wrongly informed, all the 767ER have lie-flat seats.

sxf24 wrote:
I go out of my way to book DL on the A330 because the seat is far superior to the 767. While both lie flat and have all aisle access, there is no comparison between the seats in the amount of personal space and privacy. The IFE and open space to move around at Door 1 also make the A330 a superior D1 experience.

The lack of consistency is understandable and not unexpected. Delta may be the most consistent U.S. airline, but the are not consistent.

How can you claim it as "fleet inconsistency". The 767 retrofit preceded that of the A330, it's not something that can be changed.

What you wrote in the rest of your post is totally untrue, anyone with enough desire before booking will go to airliners.net image search "cabin views", and nice job derailing the thread.
Spirit of the Northwest People
 
ewt340
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:59 am

NateGreat wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
What if Delta installed a reverse herringbone seat that featured doors? It would be a completely new design, but fit in the A330-900. Having the door would keep with the “suite” product. That’s a long shot but its a thought

The Panasonic Waterfront would definitely be a great choice, as it is both angled toward the windows/walls like the reverse herringbone, but also features a sliding door. Not sure about seat size versus cabin width issues, but at least something similar to this.

https://thepointsguy.com/2016/04/panaso ... lass-seat/


I don't think they would go with reversed herringbone design though. They probably would use the same seat on A350 minus the doors. Those seat are extremely similar to seats on Qantas or SAS business class cabin.

While the Panasonic one is hella nice. It would be cheaper and easier to just use the Thompson Vantage XL.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:21 pm

I think we need to take a breath on consistency...DL, as well as AA and UA have fleets of hundreds of aircraft. "Consistency" can only go so far as aircraft are always going to be in various stages of "retrofits". I actually think DL is pretty consistent:

J - Almost all DL long-range aircraft have direct aisle access and all seats have AVOD. Of course each aircraft are going to have different seats because they're different aircraft; however, no matter which aircraft you are on, you get direct aisle access and a seat with AVOD - that's pretty consistent. In terms of 757s used for long haul that do not have direct aisle access or lie flat, DL again created consistency by now labeling those seats "premium select", so as a customer, you know the seat is different than a D1 or D1 suite.

There are still UA long-haul aircraft with J seats that have no direct aisle access (2-4-2 on 777s and 2-2-2 on 767s and some 787s). I believe AA is all direct aisle access; however, the 767's use Samsung tablets in J because they didn't want or couldn't install AVOD.

As far as the suites go, as EChid said, DL's clear that the suites what aircraft the seats are on. Yes, there is "inconsistency" on this one, but at least you know what aircraft have the suites.


In terms of Y, I would say DL is the most consistent of the bunch again. DL is committed to AVOD on its aircraft. I'll give you the MDs are not getting AVOD, but that's it. Again - you know that if you're flying anything but a MD, you're getting AVOD. Look at AA - early 737 orders had AVOD and they were retrofitting older 737s with AVOD. Now, AA is moving to streaming and is tearing out AVOD on their 737s. So, depending on the 737 - there may be AVOD or not - that's pretty inconsistent. UA is in the same boat.

Y+ - I think DL made a mistake not putting C+ on its A350s and they realized it. This is an inconsistency that is DL's fault.

Let's take a look at DL's regional fleet - I believe all regional aircraft (except 50 seaters) have first class seats - pretty consistent. I don't think you can say the same for AA or UA.

Bottom line - for those of you looking at "consistency" in strict terms, you will always be disappointed. Airlines are constantly updating fleets, so there will always be some inconsistency. Even EK has 777s with various J configurations (just look at their seating charts).
 
PWMRamper
Posts: 360
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:55 pm

While the first few 777s were retrofitted without C+, the latest, and all future, do have C+ reinstalled. I'd presume the A350s will get updated with C+as well.
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:14 pm

Alphazone wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
767: Most 763ERs have new seats/PTVs, but some have old seats/PTVs;

Seems like you are wrongly informed, all the 767ER have lie-flat seats.

sxf24 wrote:
I go out of my way to book DL on the A330 because the seat is far superior to the 767. While both lie flat and have all aisle access, there is no comparison between the seats in the amount of personal space and privacy. The IFE and open space to move around at Door 1 also make the A330 a superior D1 experience.

The lack of consistency is understandable and not unexpected. Delta may be the most consistent U.S. airline, but the are not consistent.

How can you claim it as "fleet inconsistency". The 767 retrofit preceded that of the A330, it's not something that can be changed.

What you wrote in the rest of your post is totally untrue, anyone with enough desire before booking will go to airliners.net image search "cabin views", and nice job derailing the thread.


Fleet inconsistency can be claimed because there is inconsistency between the fleet. What is absurd is that criticism of Delta is being presumed to be unilateral, as in inconsistent D1 = bad Delta. That's not the case: there are reasons there are different D1 seats and the inconsistency will change in the future. However, I am still entitled to the opinion that D1 on the 767 is no longer competitive and falls far short of the similar generation seats offered on the 777 and A330 due to inconsistencies in seat dimensions, privacy, and IFE.
 
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sinr
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:53 pm

Back to the subject at hand. My best guess for the most efficient layout of 29 suites between L1 and L2 doors would be a staggered 1-1-1 configuration. This would make 10 rows with one seat missing from the center which would make more space for a closet, lav or galley.
 
CMH2578
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:52 am

Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:43 pm

sinr wrote:
Back to the subject at hand. My best guess for the most efficient layout of 29 suites between L1 and L2 doors would be a staggered 1-1-1 configuration. This would make 10 rows with one seat missing from the center which would make more space for a closet, lav or galley.


The Vantage XL exists on A330s today (SAS, Qantas). Qantas also has 28 J seats between L1 and L2 in a 1-2-1 configuration. It would appears to be a pitch, not width issue. The question is whether it was decided to lengthen the seat (biggest complaints seem to be being too close to the screen and storage, the additional space space could fix that) or add additional lavs/galley space, the later being more likely.

Image
 
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Alphazone
Posts: 218
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Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:54 pm

sxf24 wrote:
Alphazone wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
767: Most 763ERs have new seats/PTVs, but some have old seats/PTVs;

Seems like you are wrongly informed, all the 767ER have lie-flat seats.

sxf24 wrote:
I go out of my way to book DL on the A330 because the seat is far superior to the 767. While both lie flat and have all aisle access, there is no comparison between the seats in the amount of personal space and privacy. The IFE and open space to move around at Door 1 also make the A330 a superior D1 experience.

The lack of consistency is understandable and not unexpected. Delta may be the most consistent U.S. airline, but the are not consistent.

How can you claim it as "fleet inconsistency". The 767 retrofit preceded that of the A330, it's not something that can be changed.

What you wrote in the rest of your post is totally untrue, anyone with enough desire before booking will go to airliners.net image search "cabin views", and nice job derailing the thread.


Fleet inconsistency can be claimed because there is inconsistency between the fleet. What is absurd is that criticism of Delta is being presumed to be unilateral, as in inconsistent D1 = bad Delta. That's not the case: there are reasons there are different D1 seats and the inconsistency will change in the future. However, I am still entitled to the opinion that D1 on the 767 is no longer competitive and falls far short of the similar generation seats offered on the 777 and A330 due to inconsistencies in seat dimensions, privacy, and IFE.


Not really. Certainly the A330 J is more comfortable than 767 counterpart but when all aircraft have lie-flats then there is no inconsistency. If it is true what I am reading that AA flies 767 without PTV in coach, then one may see the gulf in service from DL and also constantly delayed UA, while WN which poster MSPNWA brought up for some reason is not in the same league as DL at all, in terms of network offering and amenities. Even the YX ERJ I’m in now has got a USB port.

Not that I care about PTVs personally, anyway the USB port is not working, lol.
Spirit of the Northwest People
 
jrkmsp
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:33 am

jrkmsp wrote:
winginit wrote:
My understanding is that Ed has said at numerous employee town hall meetings that the A330-900neo will indeed have suites that are virtually identical to the product on the A350 and retrofitted 777s.

Additionally, as PotatoPappas points out, it will be the first aircraft to have both Premium Economy and Comfort+ (the A350 and retrofitted 777s do not have Comfort+)


The latest 777 back from refitting also has Comfort+ and Premium Select. FYI.


Just posting confirmation from Delta that all 777s will have all four products as of March 1 — and my understanding is one is already flying around with the C+ seats, but still sold as Main Cabin.

https://news.delta.com/tailored-travel- ... nces-march
 
Yahnih
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:07 am

Re: Delta’s A330-900neo Business Class product?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:46 am

I rode on the new MU a330 business class product identical to Deltas... it’s quite tight except the first four rows.

MU will have doors on their 787s and a350

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