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uta999
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:56 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I'm surprised that there is not some kind of technology to bring down such a small thing. Couldn't they just jam whatever frequency it's being controlled on or trace the signals and find the person controlling it?


I suspect the persons controlling them are using a mobile app and could be in a car, or even another country.
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eric19
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:59 pm

There is, does the army have them? Also if there's at least 4 drones has mentioned above, does that mean there is at least 4 operators?
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:05 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I presume this would mean the end for drones?


Hopefully, all use should have been licensed years ago.

Geoff
 
bradyj23
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:25 pm

Not sure who is behind it but disrupting holiday travel will not get people to be sympathetic to your cause. Yes you get a lot of news coverage but you’d get that anyway. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
uta999
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:25 pm

As an exercise, I wonder if the RAF E-3D Sentry or Sentinal R1 could wander on down to the West Sussex area. The airspace is pretty clear right now.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/e-3d/

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/sentinel-r1/
Your computer just got better
 
evomutant
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:30 pm

bradyj23 wrote:
Not sure who is behind it but disrupting holiday travel will not get people to be sympathetic to your cause. Yes you get a lot of news coverage but you’d get that anyway. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.



It is the UK. We will do what we always do after a moral panic. Rush through bad legislation in a desperate desire to "do something".
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Aerodromes:

EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area till 1700 UTC.
High delays.
 
evomutant
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:46 pm

TK1963 diverting to LHR. Decent result for those pax I would say, given where some others are going.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:48 pm

uta999 wrote:
As an exercise, I wonder if the RAF E-3D Sentry or Sentinal R1 could wander on down to the West Sussex area. The airspace is pretty clear right now

I was about to post something along those lines myself, except I don't believe there is any need to park it directly overhead LGW; from what I understand, any AWACS with pulse-Doppler radar can track a golf ball from 400 miles away, so either an RAF or NATO E-3 airborne more or less anywhere over Northern Europe could assist.

Speaking of finding golf balls; I lost one off the 7th fairway last week; there's $5 for any AWACS operator who can tell me where it went..... :bouncy:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I presume this would mean the end for drones?

Hopefully, all use should have been licensed years ago.

I've seen the pattern throughout many waves of new tech introductions.

The early adopters are serious thoughtful types who understand the implications of their actions.

Later on the yabos and wankers show up and ruin it for all the rest.

Then the "there must be a law against this" types show up.

Then the law gets written by other yabos and wankers and largely gets ignored because it's a stupid law.

PS: Welcome back, SheikhDjibouti!
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AECM
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:55 pm

Regarding TAP Portugal they are sending an additional A332 to LHR in the scheduled flights of today
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:00 pm

evomutant wrote:
TK1963 diverting to LHR. Decent result for those pax I would say, given where some others are going.


True, EK15 (A380) had to go to Birmingham
 
StreetF117
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:04 pm

If the drone is over the airfield (away from people) why not use a drone to collide with it and knock it out the sky? The cost of the drone even it is a "top of the range" industrial one has got to be cheaper than the costs to the airlines and airport operator.

Some police forces are using nets to "capture" other drones.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ ... er-drones/
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Maybe they should drop a fish net from a police chopper.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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alberchico
Posts: 3244
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Does anyone think this supposed pic of the drone is simply a police helicopter ? You can just make out a tail boom


Image
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:17 pm

alberchico wrote:
Does anyone think this supposed pic of the drone is simply a police helicopter ? You can just make out a tail boom


Image


Don't know but the guys twitter account is no more.
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:20 pm

EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area till 1800 UTC.
High delays.
 
maint123
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:23 pm

London airports seem to have a major disruption every quarter. Mostly the computers are down or the ticketing system is malfunctioning And the only western country it seems.
Its been more than 12 hrs, can't they jam the frequency on which it operates ? Or swarm the area with helios and visually see where it takes off from.
Or use a satellite to study its path.
British airports are also becoming a joke like their railways.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:29 pm

bradyj23 wrote:
Not sure who is behind it but disrupting holiday travel will not get people to be sympathetic to your cause. Yes you get a lot of news coverage but you’d get that anyway. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.


I'm willing to wager $100USD (or your equivalent local currency) that this isn't being done by any "group" with a "cause"...my bet is that it's a couple of tech-geek teenagers somewhere with a mobile app controlling the drone(s), doing it for laughs and to see on TV and world-wide media what disruption they're causing, laughing their asses off with the (likely) expectation that they'll never be caught.

That being said...I'm telling you...drones are going to be the next terrorist-group-weapon-of-choice to bring down airliners. They never should have been made available for sale to the public, and like guns in the U.S., now that the genie was let out of the bottle, how do you get them out of the hands of irresponsible idiots?
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
ELBOB
Posts: 347
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:35 pm

uta999 wrote:
As an exercise, I wonder if the RAF E-3D Sentry or Sentinal R1 could wander on down to the West Sussex area. The airspace is pretty clear right now.


If elenevty-billion news cameras around Gatwick now can't spot one of these supposed drones I don't think AWACS is going to help. They'd be in the ground-clutter anyway when not moving, no doppler response to separate them from buildings etc

Frankly the whole thing is starting to look like a big false-flag op.
 
eric19
Posts: 13
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:36 pm

000 popped up again just north of Crawley
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2348
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:37 pm

alberchico wrote:
Does anyone think this supposed pic of the drone is simply a police helicopter ? You can just make out a tail boom

I'll have to take your word for it; my eyes can't make out anything

It is SUCH a shame that this event is occurring at such an inconvenient location, instead of somewhere blessed with aviation-knowledgeable people (spotters/photographers/avgeeks), who might just happen to have binoculars, telescopes and/or PROPER CAMERAS with high powered telephoto lenses. Oh wait......

To date, all I have seen is alleged sightings from "airport workers", and indistinct black smudges in the sky that could be anything. In my experience the average airport worker goes there to earn money, and couldn't tell the difference between a Tristar (L-1011) and a Trident (HS.121); like they've both got three engines, innit?

Even amongst the general population, in this era when pretty much everyone has a camera phone in their pocket, why has nobody captured a decent image yet? Last night in the dark, I can understand, but in broad daylight, I'm more reminded of all those supposed pictures of UFOs in the 50's, that were never quite in focus.

I'm not disputing that there may have been a drone, somewhere vaguely near LGW, at one point, last night. Beyond that, I'm waiting for proper evidence.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:39 pm

ELBOB wrote:
Frankly the whole thing is starting to look like a big false-flag op.


And your evidence for that is.............?
 
Leej
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:42 pm

ELBOB wrote:
uta999 wrote:
As an exercise, I wonder if the RAF E-3D Sentry or Sentinal R1 could wander on down to the West Sussex area. The airspace is pretty clear right now.


If elenevty-billion news cameras around Gatwick now can't spot one of these supposed drones I don't think AWACS is going to help. They'd be in the ground-clutter anyway when not moving, no doppler response to separate them from buildings etc

Frankly the whole thing is starting to look like a big false-flag op.


Agree - something doesn't seem to be ringing true. I'm no conspiracist by any means. How were they spotted in the middle of the night in the first place? Am keeping an open mind for the next few hours.
 
flylonghaul
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:44 pm

eric19 wrote:
000 popped up again just north of Crawley

I just noticed that also, but gone again as far as I can see.
Was there speculation that this was actually one of the drones? Or was it more likely a police Helicopter. The info for the "flight" was marked as LGW-unknown, although that could always just be FR24 reporting incorrectly.
I would have thought that a transponder on a drone would be unlikely, but I am not an expert
Flying for Pleasure
 
flylonghaul
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:31 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:49 pm

Leej wrote:
Agree - something doesn't seem to be ringing true. I'm no conspiracist by any means. How were they spotted in the middle of the night in the first place? Am keeping an open mind for the next few hours.


Believe they were spotted due to flashing lights on the drones, there is a photo on one of the UK news outlets with a reported photo. Although I cant seem to find it currently sorry. And given I cant find it anymore, I guess its possible it was only a speculative photo.

Edited to add link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... e-updates/
Last edited by flylonghaul on Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flying for Pleasure
 
User avatar
Revelation
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:56 pm

cathay747 wrote:
bradyj23 wrote:
Not sure who is behind it but disrupting holiday travel will not get people to be sympathetic to your cause. Yes you get a lot of news coverage but you’d get that anyway. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.


I'm willing to wager $100USD (or your equivalent local currency) that this isn't being done by any "group" with a "cause"...my bet is that it's a couple of tech-geek teenagers somewhere with a mobile app controlling the drone(s), doing it for laughs and to see on TV and world-wide media what disruption they're causing, laughing their asses off with the (likely) expectation that they'll never be caught.

I don't know about that. They would need to be smart enough to make sure the drone had a self-destruct sequence that would hard-erase its internal memory. Also, "apps" need back end servers to operate and all those things leave digital footprints. They would have to be flawless in their tradecraft to not leave behind something that would lead back to them.

cathay747 wrote:
That being said...I'm telling you...drones are going to be the next terrorist-group-weapon-of-choice to bring down airliners. They never should have been made available for sale to the public, and like guns in the U.S., now that the genie was let out of the bottle, how do you get them out of the hands of irresponsible idiots?

I'd be more worried about someone converting one or more C182s into flying bombs. Easy to steal, flight characteristics are well known, good payload-range, can merge into the normal air corridors without raising much suspicion, would do more damage than a drone could ever do.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
MHArt
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:39 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:04 pm

eurocontrol saying

Aerodromes:

EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area extended until 1900 UTC.
High delays.
 
Samrnpage
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:05 pm

I know someone currently working for BA as staff at Gatwick, just rang him, he says the police have said that drones just keep popping up every hour and they dont want to shoot them just in case a bullet hits the drone and then deflects and hit someone or something.

He also said every BA flight till 7pm is cancelled.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Maybe they should drop a fish net from a police chopper.
I saw a video where a bird of pray was trained to hunt and take down any drone.
 
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smithbs
Posts: 540
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:16 pm

For those who want to electronically jam the drone, there are rules about emitting energy above certain limits. I'm sure a waiver could be arranged, but the intent of the law was to prevent one actor from taking out the wireless activity of a whole neighborhood, which a drone jammer would do.

As for a deliberate "terrorist" act, one of the traits of such things is a press release. A terrorist act is meant to garner publicity for the perpetrator - to not publicly claim responsibility makes it kind of pointless. However, the fact that this has lasted way longer than 30 minutes seems to point in that direction.

As a drone operator, it makes me upset that I feel that I must follow the rules and eat the regulatory consequences of wayward lawmakers, yet my neighbor who has longer-range models doesn't care at all. The people who follow the laws and operate in a safe manner are not the problem here, and those that cause the issues never cared in the first place. Yet which one of us gets painted with the broad brush? :evil:
 
maint123
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Can't the British like always, just ask the Americans for help ? Going to be dark soon and this could go on for days.
 
UA735WL
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:23 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I'm surprised that there is not some kind of technology to bring down such a small thing. Couldn't they just jam whatever frequency it's being controlled on or trace the signals and find the person controlling it?


Time to go get grandpa's trusty 12-gauge! :spin:
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
 
zakelwe
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:36 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Still a lot of unknowns yet. It maybe a coincidence but it has not been long since Gatwick announced plans to look into gaining a 2nd runway by the alternate method of part using the backup one more as a main.

It might be a copycat of the event a while back that was publicised but for different motives. Who knows though, hopefully resolved soon ,
 
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Revelation
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:26 pm

smithbs wrote:
For those who want to electronically jam the drone, there are rules about emitting energy above certain limits. I'm sure a waiver could be arranged, but the intent of the law was to prevent one actor from taking out the wireless activity of a whole neighborhood, which a drone jammer would do.

As for a deliberate "terrorist" act, one of the traits of such things is a press release. A terrorist act is meant to garner publicity for the perpetrator - to not publicly claim responsibility makes it kind of pointless. However, the fact that this has lasted way longer than 30 minutes seems to point in that direction.

As a drone operator, it makes me upset that I feel that I must follow the rules and eat the regulatory consequences of wayward lawmakers, yet my neighbor who has longer-range models doesn't care at all. The people who follow the laws and operate in a safe manner are not the problem here, and those that cause the issues never cared in the first place. Yet which one of us gets painted with the broad brush? :evil:

Are you trying to say "if drones get outlawed, only outlaws will have drones"? :scratchchin:
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
A3801000
Topic Author
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:26 pm

As good as I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong, the CAA concideres a drone to be a 'aircraft' and it is illegal to bring down a aircraft. Anyone knows for sure?
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 243
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:49 pm

A3801000 wrote:
As good as I understand it, please correct me if I am wrong, the CAA concideres a drone to be a 'aircraft' and it is illegal to bring down a aircraft. Anyone knows for sure?


I am sure there is a distinction between a manned and unmanned aircrafts. Also those drones are violating controlled airspace and posing a threat to human-life.

If bringing down an aircraft would be illegal under any circumstance then there would be no point in intercepting passenger jets with armed fighters...but then again I am not an expert, just find the above a bit far fetched.
 
eric19
Posts: 13
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:54 pm

According to bbc news, the army have been called in to help
 
A3801000
Topic Author
Posts: 562
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:57 pm

This is what I found wrt 'bringing down drones':

https://www.hovershotz.co.uk/can-you-sh ... in-the-uk/

'Firstly, in the UK the authorities take a very dim view of people discharging firearms in built up areas and it is also illegal to shoot down any aircraft (that includes drones) in the UK (unless you are the UK military that is).'


Newest update:
EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area extended until 2000 UTC.
High delays.
 
Armodeen
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:57 pm

The Norwegian SIN flight looks to be diverting to MAN (or maybe LPL) too. Their TPA flight went into MAN earlier.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 638
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:58 pm

I'm supposed to be there on 12/23. I hope I will be okay.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
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DrPaul
Posts: 141
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:00 pm

I suspect that this business is an isolated figure 'having a laugh' privately for himself by causing as much disruption as possible. Some people enjoy doing this. A political campaign opposing airport expansion would have released a press statement by now, and there's been nothing to that effect so far.

However, it's quite possible that in the light of the disruption caused today, such a campaign might try something like this in future. Flying a couple of drones over Gatwick and Heathrow at the same time would certainly be more effective than the usual tactic of blocking an airport access road or entering airport territory, which can be sorted out fairly quickly by the authorities.
 
Draken21fx
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:02 pm

A3801000 wrote:
This is what I found wrt 'bringing down drones':

https://www.hovershotz.co.uk/can-you-sh ... in-the-uk/

'Firstly, in the UK the authorities take a very dim view of people discharging firearms in built up areas and it is also illegal to shoot down any aircraft (that includes drones) in the UK (unless you are the UK military that is).'


Newest update:
EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area extended until 2000 UTC.
High delays.


The article makes sense and I think more or less every European country has similar legislation. Obviously you cannot discharge a weapon just to bring down a drone as you risk injuries on the ground. Leave it to the authorities...but that doesnt mean that there is a ban on shooting down drones in general.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 7614
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:02 pm

smithbs wrote:
For those who want to electronically jam the drone, there are rules about emitting energy above certain limits. I'm sure a waiver could be arranged, but the intent of the law was to prevent one actor from taking out the wireless activity of a whole neighborhood, which a drone jammer would do.

As for a deliberate "terrorist" act, one of the traits of such things is a press release. A terrorist act is meant to garner publicity for the perpetrator - to not publicly claim responsibility makes it kind of pointless. However, the fact that this has lasted way longer than 30 minutes seems to point in that direction.

As a drone operator, it makes me upset that I feel that I must follow the rules and eat the regulatory consequences of wayward lawmakers, yet my neighbor who has longer-range models doesn't care at all. The people who follow the laws and operate in a safe manner are not the problem here, and those that cause the issues never cared in the first place. Yet which one of us gets painted with the broad brush? :evil:

Give it a while for the news to filter down to IS, they will be up there claiming credit soon enough. :rotfl:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User001
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:03 pm

Armodeen wrote:
The Norwegian SIN flight looks to be diverting to MAN (or maybe LPL) too. Their TPA flight went into MAN earlier.


Going to MAN according to Norwegian site. 1646 arrival.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:05 pm

alberchico wrote:
Does anyone think this supposed pic of the drone is simply a police helicopter ? You can just make out a tail boom


Image


My initial reaction to the photo was that the object seemed too large for a drone, bearing in mind the size of the plane in the foreground and the distance between the two.
 
A3801000
Topic Author
Posts: 562
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:06 pm

Here we go:

Jonathan Beale

BBC defence correspondent

Police have made a formal request to the MoD for military assistance to deal with the Gatwick incident .

A defence source would not go into any detail of what that support would entail.
 
cc2314
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:15 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:10 pm

Isn't there enough area within the airport grounds for the right marksman with the right tool to take it out and ensure the bullet lands within an area. This all seems so so easy for the perpetrators
Deleted
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:14 pm

Bongodog1964 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Does anyone think this supposed pic of the drone is simply a police helicopter ? You can just make out a tail boom


Image


My initial reaction to the photo was that the object seemed too large for a drone, bearing in mind the size of the plane in the foreground and the distance between the two.


How can you calcolate the distante of the drone? A 1cm big drone and a 3m big drone can look identical size in such a picture, it just depends on drone size and distance which are both unknown... or did i miss part of the info,
 
THS214
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:16 pm

While this is still officially police operation its clear that military is also involved. Problem is not to find and follow these drones but UK clearly know that this is not done by couple geeks but someone with high knowledge and resources. Why this takes time? Because UK wants to get solid evidence. Who ever is behind this made an own goal.
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Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos