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Dfthu
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:18 pm

I do have to agree that we’re not getting the full story. Like over a day of the airport being closed and there is no real close up picture of the drone? And no real major news coverage?
 
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Channex757
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:18 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

How about a blackmail threat? For instance the drones could be carrying dirty payloads of radioactive material? Sharpshooters couldn't take the risk of spreading it across the LGW estate.

That's just one idea but I fully agree, the whole story hasn't yet come out. There is much more to this than some halfwit with a DJI drone.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:26 pm

8 pages on this thread in less than 2 days. It's like a crash topic, without a crash. :crazy:
 
TC957
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Erebus wrote:
8 pages on this thread in less than 2 days. It's like a crash topic, without a crash. :crazy:

And it's thanks to the action taken that there hasn't been one.
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:38 pm

johns624 wrote:
PPVLC wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Aren't there any skeet or trap shooters left in merry ole England? That's what they get for gun control! :)


Police said they won't be shooting because of the risk of stray bullets. Btw, gun control is for common people not for the police and even if guns were free in the country what do you think the regular citizen would do in this case? Hundreds of people running to Gatwick with their guns shooting at a small drone near lots of planes full of passengers? Frankly...
Read up on the range of shotgun pellets and get back with me.


No, I won't bother, that's what the police said and that's it. We firmly believe in gun control around here and this has nothing to do with aviation safety. If there are drones flying around a major airport someone is not doing their job properly, this is the only thing that matters and those people in charge either politicians or police force should up their game to eliminate this threat at once.
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:45 pm

Aither wrote:
I agree that spotters are actually useful to check what's around the airport as well.


Security at LHR don't seem to think so.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:47 pm

sevenair

Safety is not an absolute; it’s about acceptable risks. Planes, like ships, are only safe when parked or moored. I have no ideas on the probabilities of this event, but safety is certainly negotiable.

GF
 
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smithbs
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:51 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
smithbs wrote:
Maybe this is extortion? Maybe there are secret negotiations underway to pay millions to stop the blockage of LGW?

You don't negotiate. Not with some idiot with a remote and a drone.


That wouldn't stop you from getting contacted with a message saying "X pounds in exchange for the drone leaving LGW."

I'm not sure - no public claim of responsibility for something that lasted far longer than a wayward hobbyist - I am starting to wonder if this was an attempt at extortion.
 
mcdu
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:56 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

How on earth could a few guys with box-cutters shutdown the largest air market in the world for multiple days?


Equating the hijack of 4 airplanes and using them as weapons on cities is not the same. Its shameful that you would equate what took place on 9/11 to this drone incident. The rules of engagement were much different pre 9/11 to hi-jackers versus today.

Those box cutters were used to murder crew members and passengers. These drones were nuisances and the response was lacking, there should be governmental inquiry into the response and how this was handled. On the public stage it looks like a black eye on the British actions on this issue.

What would the British response be to Guy Fawkes today?
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Just reading Reddit. A lot of theories about what "really" could be going on here. Was Julian Assange supposed to be snuck out of the country before Christmas?
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Exeiowa
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:35 pm

I am surprised that an effective strategy to stop such an "attack" was not actually available. Maybe they believed they had one, but discovered it did not work when they actually tried it, or was based on assumptions that turned out not to be true. Its not like this came out of left field, this has been talked about for a while now, and there was that attempt in Syria to use drones to attack a military instillation. There will be a bunch of people having a lot of meetings somewhere to figure this one out you would have thought. The perpetrators either got lucky or did a lot of homework. Or maybe in that classic British Rail misquote "They were the wrong type of drones"
 
maint123
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

Incompetence is my theory.
Its a recurring occurance in major British airports.
Their media will show a few photos of a few smiling passengers and bleat about stiff upper lips and on to the next major stoppage.
Remember the London Olympics, the army had to be called up at the last moment for security services as one third of the security ppl didn't turn up. But their media spun it as a very well managed event.
Perception management as a substitute for actually doing a good job.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:12 pm

Apparantly an Israeli made "Drone Dome" system was brought in to take out the drone.

"Six of the systems, which were developed by Israeli defense firm Rafael, were sold to the UK Ministry of Defense in August in an estimated $20 million deal, according to Israel’s Globes financial daily. According to RADA Electronic Industries, which makes the radars used in the Drone Dome, the system can identify drones from 3-5 kilometers (1.8-3 miles) away using 360-degree detection technology. The Drone Dome can then use its electro-optical sensors to jam the radio frequencies being used by the drone’s operator to control it, making the UAV inoperable and bringing it down in a so-called “soft-kill.” The system also has a laser that can melt drones, but the Daily Mail said this technology was not purchased by Britain."

Now I wonder what took so long to use it - if Britain already had purchased the system.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-army-s ... n-airport/
 
Jack
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:20 pm

Is there a new issue right now? Nothing looks to be landing or taking off from lgw.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:20 pm

Seems to be happening again - FR24 shows many aircraft circling and already a few going out of the holding patterns towards other directions.
 
FlyingLaw1
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:24 pm

airkas1 wrote:
Seems to be happening again - FR24 shows many aircraft circling and already a few going out of the holding patterns towards other directions.


This is getting really interesting--in a very bad way.
 
LTN12
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:24 pm

Runway Closed again, same issue confirmed drone sightings
 
airbazar
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:29 pm

mcdu wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

How on earth could a few guys with box-cutters shutdown the largest air market in the world for multiple days?


Equating the hijack of 4 airplanes and using them as weapons on cities is not the same. Its shameful that you would equate what took place on 9/11 to this drone incident. The rules of engagement were much different pre 9/11 to hi-jackers versus today.

Those box cutters were used to murder crew members and passengers. These drones were nuisances and the response was lacking, there should be governmental inquiry into the response and how this was handled. On the public stage it looks like a black eye on the British actions on this issue.

What would the British response be to Guy Fawkes today?


You missed the point entirely. And the point was:
1) it doesn't take a lot to cause a huge amount of damage.
2) No one ever anticipated an attack like 9/11 so therefore security wasn't looking for it or knew how to react quickly.
Regardless of the ultimate consequences, you are seeing the exact same pattern here.
But since you're such an expert how to you propose catching these drones and the people responsible? What reaction do you propose?
I guarantee you that if this had happened at just about any airport in the world, the same exact "incompetent" reaction from the authorities would have happened because I guarantee you that no one is prepared to deal with such an event.

There is no technology to catch drones. It's that simple.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ction-tec/

Do you want to know what is embarrassing for the British? When LHR shuts down because of 3 inches of snow. That is embarrassing.
Last edited by airbazar on Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... SApp_Other
Gatwick “temporarily suspending” airfield operations

Hello everyone, we are restarting our live blog on the disruption after Gatwick announced it is “temporarily suspending” its airfield operations amid reports that a drone has been sighted again.

A Gatwick spokeswoman said flights are suspended due to a “suspected drone sighting”.

Flights bound for Gatwick are also on hold.

Last Updated: 17:30 GMT Friday, 21 December 2018
 
Armodeen
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:35 pm

Aircraft stacked up in holds all across the south...some flights look to be diverting already (EZY39YZ, EZY91YX, EZY86MW for example).

One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

This is unbelievable. Another night of mass diversions and chaos.

*edit* Huge numbers of flights diverting now :banghead: :white:
 
joelBCN
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:41 pm

Diversions have begun.
AT802 has just diverted to LHR.
 
gtargui
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Armodeen wrote:
One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

I spotted that on FR24, that's just extremely unlucky!
Are there any other planes that got diverted last night that could be diverting tonight?
 
Armodeen
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:47 pm

gtargui wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

I spotted that on FR24, that's just extremely unlucky!
Are there any other planes that got diverted last night that could be diverting tonight?


Yes I saw an Easyjet with a ferry number from GVA divert into STN...can't recall the exact number. There will probably be others.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:51 pm

Looks like Rwandair #700 actually spent an extra day on the ground at BRU yesterday, and appears to be going back to BRU right now.

'902
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scbriml
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:01 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Aither wrote:
I agree that spotters are actually useful to check what's around the airport as well.


Security at LHR don't seem to think so.


Then why do the police run the Heathrow Airport Watch scheme? :scratchchin:

https://www.met.police.uk/ar/applyregis ... ort-watch/
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vhtje
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:01 pm

A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?
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Arion640
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:03 pm

vhtje wrote:
A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?


One BA A320 going to Bristol.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:03 pm

Hopefully the Drone Dome system can find the drone and take it out quicker this time.

It seems very suspicious that this is happening right before Christmas when there's a massive amount of air travel - the most disruptive time to do something like this. The British Government is known to instruct media not to report certain things. I wonder if they know something they're not telling us.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:04 pm

An airport vehicle is patrolling all over the airport perimeter. Right now, OPS1 is on the runway.

Perhaps the drone is autonomous, and is just tasked with flying over the airport. That way, the controller can't be triangulated. If found, he'd be hit with millions in legal costs.


David
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Bhoy
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:06 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Apparantly an Israeli made "Drone Dome" system was brought in to take out the drone.

"Six of the systems, which were developed by Israeli defense firm Rafael, were sold to the UK Ministry of Defense in August in an estimated $20 million deal, according to Israel’s Globes financial daily. According to RADA Electronic Industries, which makes the radars used in the Drone Dome, the system can identify drones from 3-5 kilometers (1.8-3 miles) away using 360-degree detection technology. The Drone Dome can then use its electro-optical sensors to jam the radio frequencies being used by the drone’s operator to control it, making the UAV inoperable and bringing it down in a so-called “soft-kill.” The system also has a laser that can melt drones, but the Daily Mail said this technology was not purchased by Britain."

Now I wonder what took so long to use it - if Britain already had purchased the system.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-army-s ... n-airport/

If the Daily Fail said it, it must be true... :roll:
 
nine4nine
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:07 pm

Why isn’t there a drone killing frequency in the vicinity around an airport? There should be some sort of frequency killer that remote operated devices could be affected by and just cause them to crash to the ground when activated. I’m sure there’s some sort of military tech they can use to put an end to this nonsense.
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gtargui
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:08 pm

WS4101 heading north, WestJet website isn't yet saying where it's diverting to.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:14 pm

Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:15 pm

Gatwick Airport is unavailable until 2200 UTC due to drone activities nearby. AOs are requested to anticipate issue and contact possible diversion Aerodromes.

From Eurocontrol
 
Cunard
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:16 pm

vhtje wrote:
A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?



Bournemouth BOH has been a regular diversionary airport for British Airways in the past although only one A320 was handled yesterday and now the airport has taken these two diversions.

If you search online there are photos of numerous British Airways A319/320 together on the apron at Bournemouth Airport after being diverted from either LGW or LHR especially during the Volcanic ash incident in 2010.

I think that the most that the airport has received from British Airways at any one time was five aircraft, it was an impressive sight considering that the airline doesn't actually serve the airport.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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EastLondoner
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:21 pm

EK9 and QR331 both seem to be heading into the Heathrow holding pattern so I imagine that's where they are diverting to.
 
pdp
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:23 pm

AUR607Y just took-off, any ideas?
 
Gingersnap
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:26 pm

I guess only arrivals are at a 0 flow right now. I guess if they can get departures out where possible, they will.
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Armodeen
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:30 pm

gtargui wrote:
WS4101 heading north, WestJet website isn't yet saying where it's diverting to.



Back to GLA looks like :shock:
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:30 pm

EGKK (London Gatwick)
Arrivals regulated with a 0-rate until 22:00 due to drones
High delays
 
Gingersnap
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:30 pm

Yeah they're firing them out now. Departures seemingly back to normal.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:31 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.


Birds don't have lithium batteries or potentially an explosive device attached.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:33 pm

Looks like the airport is open. Aircraft are departing and some aircraft that had filed diversion airports have turned back towards LGW (EZY3814 for example)
 
S0Y
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.


...but this is clearly a malicious attack, so who knows where it could escalate. The saboteur could mount an IED on the drone, what then?
Also they may be thinking they take the heat now and capture the operator rather than shoot it down, ending todays attack but allowing the perpetrator to escape to fight another day, perhaps at LHR where impact would be far worse.

Finally opening the airport now would be a political call and politicians are conservative and mostly interested in CYI.
Too much downside for them to demand the airport to open and risk a major accident. The media would crucify them. There is a reason we are still living with the fiasco of taking off our shoes and putting liquids in freedom baggies.........
 
ELBOB
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:44 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Why isn’t there a drone killing frequency in the vicinity around an airport? There should be some sort of frequency killer that remote operated devices could be affected by and just cause them to crash to the ground when activated.


Why assume that it is remotely operated? It'd be more logical for a competent person to modify drones for autonomous operation, after all the area of Gatwick is well mapped. Just upload several nuisance routes and send the drones on their way. Nothing short of physical interference would affect them.

Stop thinking about drones like radio-controlled hobby models, they're more like flying robots.
Last edited by ELBOB on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
factsonly
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:44 pm

Some interesting flight patterns as a result of this 2nd LGW closing, see TOM517 from Marrakesh to Gatwick:

After an initial hold over the Channel, a diversion to Luton is broken off to return to LGW.

https://www.flightradar24.com/TOM517/1ef16d7f

and BA2741 A319 GVA-LGW saw an initial divert to Stansted to return to LGW:

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW41GH/1ef19ce9
 
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glideslope
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:49 pm

Channex757 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

How about a blackmail threat? For instance the drones could be carrying dirty payloads of radioactive material? Sharpshooters couldn't take the risk of spreading it across the LGW estate.

That's just one idea but I fully agree, the whole story hasn't yet come out. There is much more to this than some halfwit with a DJI drone.


I agree there is more going on than we are aware of. I’m not ready to go down the blackmail/payload road yet, however there seems to be equal urgency toward aircraft safety and destroying a drone over the property.

OTOH, one can’t simply have Sharp Shooters throwing high velocity bullets in this environment either.

If this turns out to be just some very smart amateur drone pilots causing mayhem it should be treated far more seriously than simply flight in an unauthorized zone. Very disturbing events.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:50 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.

Perhaps we should (semi-extensive fan blade damage due to bird strike):

http://avherald.com/img/ryanair_b738_ei-fef_bucharest_181123_1.jpg

This IS from a bird strike. The reason for shutting down because of a drone (or several) is that there is a risk of multiple failures. A single drone hit would most likley be manageble for any airliner, but what if there was another problem just before the drone strike? Let’s say you have an unrelated loss of thrust on one engine and the other one is taken out by the drone? Airline safety needs to adress the unlikely scenarios in order to maintain the safety record we see these days. The likely ones can be easily handled anyway and have been for decades.

/Fredrik
Last edited by FredrikHAD on Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
A3801000
Topic Author
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Re: Gatwick drone closures

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:52 pm

Gatwick Airport is unavailable until 2000 UTC due to drone activities nearby. Limited acceptance rate has been applied after 2000.
NMOC will keep you updated.
 
cat3appr50
Posts: 186
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Re: Gatwick drone closures

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:23 pm

IMO deal with the drone(s) issue, either at LGW or any major airport in the world, by instituting very strict criminal penalties to the equality of purposeful and criminal endangerment of innocent lives, and criminal sentences of maybe 10+ years in prison for any person knowingly and purposefully operating a drone without written permission from the airport authority and law enforcement within the (equal to in the USA) ground level (lowest) airspace boundary constraints for any Class B or Class C airport. This would be over and above the general 400’ AGL constraint (in the USA that is) for operation of a drone anywhere.

Doesn’t seem that instituting regulations only is going to cut it to make sure that this doesn’t happen again. Regulation and strict enforcement and consequent harsh criminal penalties (that will serve as examples toward others who may recklessly or purposefully endanger innocent lives with their drones) will stop this BS.

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Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos