I do have to agree that we’re not getting the full story. Like over a day of the airport being closed and there is no real close up picture of the drone? And no real major news coverage?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

How about a blackmail threat? For instance the drones could be carrying dirty payloads of radioactive material? Sharpshooters couldn't take the risk of spreading it across the LGW estate.

That's just one idea but I fully agree, the whole story hasn't yet come out. There is much more to this than some halfwit with a DJI drone.

8 pages on this thread in less than 2 days. It's like a crash topic, without a crash.

Erebus wrote:

8 pages on this thread in less than 2 days. It's like a crash topic, without a crash.

And it's thanks to the action taken that there hasn't been one.

johns624 wrote:

PPVLC wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Aren't there any skeet or trap shooters left in merry ole England? That's what they get for gun control!

Police said they won't be shooting because of the risk of stray bullets. Btw, gun control is for common people not for the police and even if guns were free in the country what do you think the regular citizen would do in this case? Hundreds of people running to Gatwick with their guns shooting at a small drone near lots of planes full of passengers? Frankly...

Read up on the range of shotgun pellets and get back with me.

No, I won't bother, that's what the police said and that's it. We firmly believe in gun control around here and this has nothing to do with aviation safety. If there are drones flying around a major airport someone is not doing their job properly, this is the only thing that matters and those people in charge either politicians or police force should up their game to eliminate this threat at once.

Aither wrote:

I agree that spotters are actually useful to check what's around the airport as well.

Security at LHR don't seem to think so.

sevenair

Safety is not an absolute; it’s about acceptable risks. Planes, like ships, are only safe when parked or moored. I have no ideas on the probabilities of this event, but safety is certainly negotiable.

GF

Kikko19 wrote:

smithbs wrote:

Maybe this is extortion? Maybe there are secret negotiations underway to pay millions to stop the blockage of LGW?

You don't negotiate. Not with some idiot with a remote and a drone.

That wouldn't stop you from getting contacted with a message saying "X pounds in exchange for the drone leaving LGW."

I'm not sure - no public claim of responsibility for something that lasted far longer than a wayward hobbyist - I am starting to wonder if this was an attempt at extortion.

airbazar wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

How on earth could a few guys with box-cutters shutdown the largest air market in the world for multiple days?

Equating the hijack of 4 airplanes and using them as weapons on cities is not the same. Its shameful that you would equate what took place on 9/11 to this drone incident. The rules of engagement were much different pre 9/11 to hi-jackers versus today.

Those box cutters were used to murder crew members and passengers. These drones were nuisances and the response was lacking, there should be governmental inquiry into the response and how this was handled. On the public stage it looks like a black eye on the British actions on this issue.

What would the British response be to Guy Fawkes today?

Just reading Reddit. A lot of theories about what "really" could be going on here. Was Julian Assange supposed to be snuck out of the country before Christmas?

I am surprised that an effective strategy to stop such an "attack" was not actually available. Maybe they believed they had one, but discovered it did not work when they actually tried it, or was based on assumptions that turned out not to be true. Its not like this came out of left field, this has been talked about for a while now, and there was that attempt in Syria to use drones to attack a military instillation. There will be a bunch of people having a lot of meetings somewhere to figure this one out you would have thought. The perpetrators either got lucky or did a lot of homework. Or maybe in that classic British Rail misquote "They were the wrong type of drones"

dtw2hyd wrote:

Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

Incompetence is my theory.
Its a recurring occurance in major British airports.
Their media will show a few photos of a few smiling passengers and bleat about stiff upper lips and on to the next major stoppage.
Remember the London Olympics, the army had to be called up at the last moment for security services as one third of the security ppl didn't turn up. But their media spun it as a very well managed event.
Perception management as a substitute for actually doing a good job.

Apparantly an Israeli made "Drone Dome" system was brought in to take out the drone.

"Six of the systems, which were developed by Israeli defense firm Rafael, were sold to the UK Ministry of Defense in August in an estimated $20 million deal, according to Israel’s Globes financial daily. According to RADA Electronic Industries, which makes the radars used in the Drone Dome, the system can identify drones from 3-5 kilometers (1.8-3 miles) away using 360-degree detection technology. The Drone Dome can then use its electro-optical sensors to jam the radio frequencies being used by the drone’s operator to control it, making the UAV inoperable and bringing it down in a so-called “soft-kill.” The system also has a laser that can melt drones, but the Daily Mail said this technology was not purchased by Britain."

Now I wonder what took so long to use it - if Britain already had purchased the system.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-army-s ... n-airport/

Is there a new issue right now? Nothing looks to be landing or taking off from lgw.

Seems to be happening again - FR24 shows many aircraft circling and already a few going out of the holding patterns towards other directions.

airkas1 wrote:

Seems to be happening again - FR24 shows many aircraft circling and already a few going out of the holding patterns towards other directions.

This is getting really interesting--in a very bad way.

Runway Closed again, same issue confirmed drone sightings

mcdu wrote:

airbazar wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

How on earth could a few guys with box-cutters shutdown the largest air market in the world for multiple days?

Equating the hijack of 4 airplanes and using them as weapons on cities is not the same. Its shameful that you would equate what took place on 9/11 to this drone incident. The rules of engagement were much different pre 9/11 to hi-jackers versus today.

Those box cutters were used to murder crew members and passengers. These drones were nuisances and the response was lacking, there should be governmental inquiry into the response and how this was handled. On the public stage it looks like a black eye on the British actions on this issue.

What would the British response be to Guy Fawkes today?

You missed the point entirely. And the point was:
1) it doesn't take a lot to cause a huge amount of damage.
2) No one ever anticipated an attack like 9/11 so therefore security wasn't looking for it or knew how to react quickly.
Regardless of the ultimate consequences, you are seeing the exact same pattern here.
But since you're such an expert how to you propose catching these drones and the people responsible? What reaction do you propose?
I guarantee you that if this had happened at just about any airport in the world, the same exact "incompetent" reaction from the authorities would have happened because I guarantee you that no one is prepared to deal with such an event.

There is no technology to catch drones. It's that simple.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ction-tec/

Do you want to know what is embarrassing for the British? When LHR shuts down because of 3 inches of snow. That is embarrassing.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... SApp_Other
Gatwick “temporarily suspending” airfield operations

Hello everyone, we are restarting our live blog on the disruption after Gatwick announced it is “temporarily suspending” its airfield operations amid reports that a drone has been sighted again.

A Gatwick spokeswoman said flights are suspended due to a “suspected drone sighting”.

Flights bound for Gatwick are also on hold.

Last Updated: 17:30 GMT Friday, 21 December 2018

Aircraft stacked up in holds all across the south...some flights look to be diverting already (EZY39YZ, EZY91YX, EZY86MW for example).

One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

This is unbelievable. Another night of mass diversions and chaos.

*edit* Huge numbers of flights diverting now

Diversions have begun.
AT802 has just diverted to LHR.

Armodeen wrote:

One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

I spotted that on FR24, that's just extremely unlucky!
Are there any other planes that got diverted last night that could be diverting tonight?

gtargui wrote:

Armodeen wrote:

One of the aircraft holding is Westjet 4101 which diverted to GLA yesterday....they are having a very bad time.

I spotted that on FR24, that's just extremely unlucky!
Are there any other planes that got diverted last night that could be diverting tonight?

Yes I saw an Easyjet with a ferry number from GVA divert into STN...can't recall the exact number. There will probably be others.

Looks like Rwandair #700 actually spent an extra day on the ground at BRU yesterday, and appears to be going back to BRU right now.

'902

A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?

vhtje wrote:

A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?

One BA A320 going to Bristol.

Hopefully the Drone Dome system can find the drone and take it out quicker this time.

It seems very suspicious that this is happening right before Christmas when there's a massive amount of air travel - the most disruptive time to do something like this. The British Government is known to instruct media not to report certain things. I wonder if they know something they're not telling us.

An airport vehicle is patrolling all over the airport perimeter. Right now, OPS1 is on the runway.

Perhaps the drone is autonomous, and is just tasked with flying over the airport. That way, the controller can't be triangulated. If found, he'd be hit with millions in legal costs.


David

JetBuddy wrote:

Apparantly an Israeli made "Drone Dome" system was brought in to take out the drone.

"Six of the systems, which were developed by Israeli defense firm Rafael, were sold to the UK Ministry of Defense in August in an estimated $20 million deal, according to Israel’s Globes financial daily. According to RADA Electronic Industries, which makes the radars used in the Drone Dome, the system can identify drones from 3-5 kilometers (1.8-3 miles) away using 360-degree detection technology. The Drone Dome can then use its electro-optical sensors to jam the radio frequencies being used by the drone’s operator to control it, making the UAV inoperable and bringing it down in a so-called “soft-kill.” The system also has a laser that can melt drones, but the Daily Mail said this technology was not purchased by Britain."

Now I wonder what took so long to use it - if Britain already had purchased the system.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-army-s ... n-airport/

If the Daily Fail said it, it must be true...

Why isn’t there a drone killing frequency in the vicinity around an airport? There should be some sort of frequency killer that remote operated devices could be affected by and just cause them to crash to the ground when activated. I’m sure there’s some sort of military tech they can use to put an end to this nonsense.

WS4101 heading north, WestJet website isn't yet saying where it's diverting to.

Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.

Gatwick Airport is unavailable until 2200 UTC due to drone activities nearby. AOs are requested to anticipate issue and contact possible diversion Aerodromes.

From Eurocontrol

vhtje wrote:

A BA A320 (G-MIDO) just landed at Bournemouth (BOH). A second BA A319 (G-DBCH) is about to land. BOH is not a normal BA destination, so it will be rare sight. Anyone with a camera nearby?

Bournemouth BOH has been a regular diversionary airport for British Airways in the past although only one A320 was handled yesterday and now the airport has taken these two diversions.

If you search online there are photos of numerous British Airways A319/320 together on the apron at Bournemouth Airport after being diverted from either LGW or LHR especially during the Volcanic ash incident in 2010.

I think that the most that the airport has received from British Airways at any one time was five aircraft, it was an impressive sight considering that the airline doesn't actually serve the airport.

EK9 and QR331 both seem to be heading into the Heathrow holding pattern so I imagine that's where they are diverting to.

AUR607Y just took-off, any ideas?

I guess only arrivals are at a 0 flow right now. I guess if they can get departures out where possible, they will.

gtargui wrote:

WS4101 heading north, WestJet website isn't yet saying where it's diverting to.

Back to GLA looks like

EGKK (London Gatwick)
Arrivals regulated with a 0-rate until 22:00 due to drones
High delays

Yeah they're firing them out now. Departures seemingly back to normal.

32andBelow wrote:

Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.

Birds don't have lithium batteries or potentially an explosive device attached.

Looks like the airport is open. Aircraft are departing and some aircraft that had filed diversion airports have turned back towards LGW (EZY3814 for example)

nine4nine wrote:

Why isn’t there a drone killing frequency in the vicinity around an airport? There should be some sort of frequency killer that remote operated devices could be affected by and just cause them to crash to the ground when activated.

Why assume that it is remotely operated? It'd be more logical for a competent person to modify drones for autonomous operation, after all the area of Gatwick is well mapped. Just upload several nuisance routes and send the drones on their way. Nothing short of physical interference would affect them.

Stop thinking about drones like radio-controlled hobby models, they're more like flying robots.

Some interesting flight patterns as a result of this 2nd LGW closing, see TOM517 from Marrakesh to Gatwick:

After an initial hold over the Channel, a diversion to Luton is broken off to return to LGW.

https://www.flightradar24.com/TOM517/1ef16d7f

and BA2741 A319 GVA-LGW saw an initial divert to Stansted to return to LGW:

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW41GH/1ef19ce9

Channex757 wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.

How about a blackmail threat? For instance the drones could be carrying dirty payloads of radioactive material? Sharpshooters couldn't take the risk of spreading it across the LGW estate.

That's just one idea but I fully agree, the whole story hasn't yet come out. There is much more to this than some halfwit with a DJI drone.

I agree there is more going on than we are aware of. I’m not ready to go down the blackmail/payload road yet, however there seems to be equal urgency toward aircraft safety and destroying a drone over the property.

OTOH, one can’t simply have Sharp Shooters throwing high velocity bullets in this environment either.

If this turns out to be just some very smart amateur drone pilots causing mayhem it should be treated far more seriously than simply flight in an unauthorized zone. Very disturbing events.

32andBelow wrote:

Omg we don’t shut airports for birds.

Perhaps we should (semi-extensive fan blade damage due to bird strike):

http://avherald.com/img/ryanair_b738_ei-fef_bucharest_181123_1.jpg

This IS from a bird strike. The reason for shutting down because of a drone (or several) is that there is a risk of multiple failures. A single drone hit would most likley be manageble for any airliner, but what if there was another problem just before the drone strike? Let’s say you have an unrelated loss of thrust on one engine and the other one is taken out by the drone? Airline safety needs to adress the unlikely scenarios in order to maintain the safety record we see these days. The likely ones can be easily handled anyway and have been for decades.

/Fredrik

Gatwick Airport is unavailable until 2000 UTC due to drone activities nearby. Limited acceptance rate has been applied after 2000.
NMOC will keep you updated.

IMO deal with the drone(s) issue, either at LGW or any major airport in the world, by instituting very strict criminal penalties to the equality of purposeful and criminal endangerment of innocent lives, and criminal sentences of maybe 10+ years in prison for any person knowingly and purposefully operating a drone without written permission from the airport authority and law enforcement within the (equal to in the USA) ground level (lowest) airspace boundary constraints for any Class B or Class C airport. This would be over and above the general 400’ AGL constraint (in the USA that is) for operation of a drone anywhere.

Doesn’t seem that instituting regulations only is going to cut it to make sure that this doesn’t happen again. Regulation and strict enforcement and consequent harsh criminal penalties (that will serve as examples toward others who may recklessly or purposefully endanger innocent lives with their drones) will stop this BS.