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eric19
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Lentini2001 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
And how the hell is this thing staying in the air for that long? It must landing somewhere and recharging. I just can't believe that if they can see the drone, they can't follow it and see where it lands.


Send an SAS sniper into its proximity!!

Well the armyison scene
 
B747forever
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:34 pm

A3801000 wrote:
EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable due to drones in the area extended until 2300 UTC.


What an embarrassment for the whole country. Unbelievable how this has been going on for +24 hours. This could go on for days! Starting to root for the ones operating the drones.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Dfthu
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 pm

The problems at Gatwick have moved the Department for Transport to temporarily change the rules governing night flights to relive congestion. As a American I don't really know what that means but that sounds important.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... b91ff06d67
 
HarrisDPO
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:42 pm

Dfthu wrote:
The problems at Gatwick have moved the Department for Transport to temporarily change the rules governing night flights to relive congestion. As a American I don't really know what that means but that sounds important.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... b91ff06d67


LHR going to run flights all night?
 
smartplane
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:47 pm

A silver lining for HiFly when normal service resumes.

Could Parliament use urgency and ban civilian drone flights in the UK for 48 hours with immediate effect, thereby removing transmission clutter to just the offender?
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:48 pm

From Twitter:

There are also problems at Heathrow. The BA IT system has crashed, according to a passenger from The Westminster Bubble who is there now - they've been told paperwork now being manually delivered to planes. "150 aircraft awaiting clearance to take off", their pilot said
 
Gazdon121
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:48 pm

EK9 is approaching UK airspace, wonder where that is going to be diverting to
 
SimProgrammer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:48 pm

The police have a helicopter in the air, why don't they just follow the drone back to its operator?
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
 
Arion640
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:49 pm

HarrisDPO wrote:
Dfthu wrote:
The problems at Gatwick have moved the Department for Transport to temporarily change the rules governing night flights to relive congestion. As a American I don't really know what that means but that sounds important.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... b91ff06d67


LHR going to run flights all night?


Not sure what benefit there would be to LHR. BA have probably done their best to re route passengers through it’s services from there today.
Lets get Brexit done.
 
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EK2
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:51 pm

eric19 wrote:
Lentini2001 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
And how the hell is this thing staying in the air for that long? It must landing somewhere and recharging. I just can't believe that if they can see the drone, they can't follow it and see where it lands.


Send an SAS sniper into its proximity!!

Well the armyison scene



Guys , I've alluded to this several times, it's not just one drone. If this was planned, as it appears to be , the offender can easily retrieve it and move on prior to resources getting to the location. Similarly, as I've also said, with multiple drones the units are expendable so they could land , be intercepted but the offender then uses another unit. Any special forces, police or military sniper would struggle with the shot.
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EastLondoner
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:51 pm

Gazdon121 wrote:
EK9 is approaching UK airspace, wonder where that is going to be diverting to


The Emirates Website shows it as Birmingham
 
David_itl
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:52 pm

Gazdon121 wrote:
EK9 is approaching UK airspace, wonder where that is going to be diverting to


MAN. Meant to depart 1535 tomorrow apparently.
 
A3801000
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:53 pm

Gazdon121 wrote:
EK9 is approaching UK airspace, wonder where that is going to be diverting to


Earlier EK A380s went to LHR and BHM. EK9 looks like it'S going somewhere up north.
 
evank516
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Tonight's Norwegian JFK-LGW flight is cancelled. A colleague of mine was on it to go home for the holidays.
 
factsonly
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:59 pm

fromheretohere9 wrote:

But why are some planes being sent to AMS, BRU, CDG and ORY. I will conceive that passengers could be put on the Eurostar, but is that as good an option as send them to different UK airports ??
Or is BA placing passengers on their flights to LCY and LHR ??


It makes no difference whatsoever.

Take AMS as an example, the airport has better connections with the UK than most UK airports.

BA will shuttle diverted passengers on one of its 9x daily AMS-LHR flights (also 11x daily KLM AMS-LHR flights) and this afternoon BA440 LHR-AMS-LHR is being operated by B77W G-STBC to accommodate more BA passengers.

Diversions go to airports where alternative arrangements can be made.


And it seems diverted BA B772 G-VIIF is set to remain at AMS for close to 24-hours.
Last edited by factsonly on Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
EWR762
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:00 pm

EGKK( Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable extended until 0600 21st Dec.
Intended reopening is at 06oo UTC 21st Dec 2018.
 
GDB
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:03 pm

SimProgrammer wrote:
The police have a helicopter in the air, why don't they just follow the drone back to its operator?


It is clearly not as simple as that, is it? Otherwise this would have happened.
We need to get out of the mindset based on prior experience of this sort of thing, one person, with a drone, too near an airport usually due to stupidity rather than malicious intent.

This all seems very malicious, it looks like multiple drones (and locations?), probably more than one person involved too.
We really have to wait for when those doing this are caught, the Army is probably there with electronic direction finding abilities, which makes sense. Hopefully this will make catching them far more likely.
Otherwise what is to stop them again?
(I know saying that we should wait for actual. concrete information, is almost heresy these days).
 
passyflyer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:11 pm

Tomorrow will be the start of the school holidays in most European countries. Therefore alternative flights are likely to be very full. This will take until after Christmas to sort this out and get everyone to their destination.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:11 pm

fromheretohere9 wrote:
It’s probably already been posted but gonna be honest and can’t be bothered to scroll and read every post.
I can understand send planes to NCL, MAN, STN, CWL, BRS as it’s not ideal but can get the passengers home reasonably easily.
But why are some planes being sent to AMS, BRU, CDG and ORY. I will conceive that passengers could be put on the Eurostar, but is that as good an option as send them to different UK airports ??
Or is BA placing passengers on their flights to LCY and LHR ??

Yes, it has been answered. The closer airports have limits in terms of ramp space, fire fighting capability (staff must be on hand to in proportion to largest anticipated emergency) etc. Also all the UK airports are very busy this time of year. It's not like they have excess capacity waiting to be used by diversions. So, you go where they can take you.
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SimProgrammer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:14 pm

I am due to fly to LGW on Sunday on CX from HK, but I don't think that's going to happen.

The drone operator must be working from fields away from homes otherwise locals near LGW would have called in. I would guess the drone is being operated using a Litchi waypoint mission. That makes it very hard for another hands-flown drone to follow.
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smithbs
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:19 pm

Maybe this is extortion? Maybe there are secret negotiations underway to pay millions to stop the blockage of LGW?
 
devron
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:22 pm

Really why is there not more information and pictures?

Does anyone care to speculate why gatwick and not LHR (easier to block one runway?)

This entire incident makes no sense to me?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:24 pm

AirlineCritic wrote:


Yes, there are non-projectile means to drop a drone, usually restricted to military or government use. I'm shocked these haven;t been deployed yet in this embarrassing situation. The "wrong people" are taking note of the economic damage and disruption that can be done by a half dozen guys with toys. The only question now is what the next target will be.
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SimProgrammer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:28 pm

devron wrote:
Really why is there not more information and pictures?

Does anyone care to speculate why gatwick and not LHR (easier to block one runway?)

This entire incident makes no sense to me?


LHR has few places a drone operator can hide. Residents would see a drone lifting up, whereas LGW has open fields and plenty of places to hide from a thermal imaging helicopter. At night, nobody would notice a drone leaving, and if it approaches LGW high before descending, it makes it impossible to follow.

The motive for doing this escapes me, nobody really knows who or why.
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
 
airbazar
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:38 pm

Spacepope wrote:
AirlineCritic wrote:
I've heard about military systems designed to defend areas against drones. For instance:

Yes, there are non-projectile means to drop a drone, usually restricted to military or government use. I'm shocked these haven;t been deployed yet in this embarrassing situation. The "wrong people" are taking note of the economic damage and disruption that can be done by a half dozen guys with toys. The only question now is what the next target will be.


Why is it embarrassing? If it is a planned event as it appears to be there really isn't a lot that can be done.
It's a well documented fact that there is no sure method of finding and stopping a drone, especially if dealing with people who know what they are doing.
 
MarkLattimer
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:39 pm

This nonsense is still in progress? Really?? I truly can't believe this...I'm shocked/thunderstruck/gobsmacked!

It's a civilian drone and not a multi-billion dollar stealth platform at 50k feet for crying out loud. That drone has all kinds signatures: visual, aural (ie. it's noisy), infrared, even radio (which should pinpoint the location of the controller). As much as they need to catch the clown(s) behind this (and punish them HARD), they also need to give a full accounting of how on Earth it was possible for a drone operator to shut down a major airport for >24 hrs.... Unreal....
 
Kikko19
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:39 pm

smithbs wrote:
Maybe this is extortion? Maybe there are secret negotiations underway to pay millions to stop the blockage of LGW?

You don't negotiate. Not with some idiot with a remote and a drone.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:44 pm

And the award for most odious response to today's events goes to 'Communities Against Gatwick Noise Emission', who, per the BBC, described the disruption as "an early Christmas present for those that suffer aircraft noise."

Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-englan ... type=share
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
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devron
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:50 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
And the award for most odious response to today's events goes to 'Communities Against Gatwick Noise Emission', who, per the BBC, described the disruption as "an early Christmas present for those that suffer aircraft noise."


Add them to the suspect list, really! Holidays ruined and they think it is a holiday gift.
 
Karlsands
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:07 pm

airbazar wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
AirlineCritic wrote:
I've heard about military systems designed to defend areas against drones. For instance:

Yes, there are non-projectile means to drop a drone, usually restricted to military or government use. I'm shocked these haven;t been deployed yet in this embarrassing situation. The "wrong people" are taking note of the economic damage and disruption that can be done by a half dozen guys with toys. The only question now is what the next target will be.


Why is it embarrassing? If it is a planned event as it appears to be there really isn't a lot that can be done.
It's a well documented fact that there is no sure method of finding and stopping a drone, especially if dealing with people who know what they are doing.

How isn’t this embarrassing for anyone’s national “security”. Just sit down and think about it. It’s a damn plastic drone man
 
jumbojet
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:07 pm

im surprised no one has mentioned the word extraterrestrial yet.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:09 pm

SimProgrammer wrote:
The police have a helicopter in the air, why don't they just follow the drone back to its operator?


The drone can change direction and speed much faster than a helo can. The helo won’t stand a chance. What the helo can do is follow it with its cameras (IR and visual) and report the direction it’s going to ground units.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:15 pm

Why can't the drone be "zapped"?
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:21 pm

The assumption being there it is one or two drones operated from one location. In reality, it could be up to 10 drones operated from multiple locations.
 
B747forever
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:21 pm

Karlsands wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Spacepope wrote:


Why is it embarrassing? If it is a planned event as it appears to be there really isn't a lot that can be done.
It's a well documented fact that there is no sure method of finding and stopping a drone, especially if dealing with people who know what they are doing.

How isn’t this embarrassing for anyone’s national “security”. Just sit down and think about it. It’s a damn plastic drone man


This.

I am shocked how a couple of drones can keep the UK's second largest airport closed for +24hrs. Shows how vulnerable the whole infrastructure and country is.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
EWR762
Posts: 37
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:22 pm

From the article:
"A Gatwick Airport spokesperson told Sky News passengers should not come to the airport "for the foreseeable future including tomorrow.""

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... s-13760977
 
jumbojet
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:24 pm

gotta keep in mind also that these drones can possibly have the ability to carry an IED.
 
johns624
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:25 pm

Karlsands wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Spacepope wrote:


Why is it embarrassing? If it is a planned event as it appears to be there really isn't a lot that can be done.
It's a well documented fact that there is no sure method of finding and stopping a drone, especially if dealing with people who know what they are doing.

How isn’t this embarrassing for anyone’s national “security”. Just sit down and think about it. It’s a damn plastic drone man
It is embarrassing. Maybe they need to get the plods out from behind their CCTV monitors and saturate the surrounding area to find out where they're coming from.
 
global2
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:30 pm

SimProgrammer wrote:
devron wrote:
Really why is there not more information and pictures?

Does anyone care to speculate why gatwick and not LHR (easier to block one runway?)

This entire incident makes no sense to me?


LHR has few places a drone operator can hide. Residents would see a drone lifting up, whereas LGW has open fields and plenty of places to hide from a thermal imaging helicopter. At night, nobody would notice a drone leaving, and if it approaches LGW high before descending, it makes it impossible to follow.

The motive for doing this escapes me, nobody really knows who or why.


I wondered why not LHR as well, but your answer is a plausible explanation. We also have to wonder how many drones have been deployed. Several commenters have asked why not follow the drones back to their origin points. But how do we know if the perpetrators want them to return and aren't just sacrificing the drones and letting them fly themselves into the woods to avoid being tracked down by the police?
 
Cunard
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:32 pm

evank516 wrote:
Tonight's Norwegian JFK-LGW flight is cancelled. A colleague of mine was on it to go home for the holidays.


I'm afraid it's not just your colleague who has been affected by the cancellation of tonight's Norwegian JFK-LGW it's everyone who was supposed to fly to or from LGW because as I'm sure your aware that every flight to or from LGW has been cancelled it's affected everyone's travel plans and with about 130,000 passengers already affected by the closure this mess will take absolutely ages to recover maybe a week which isn't ideal for anyone involved considering that Christmas is only four days away.

It's an absolutely embarrassing situation and those concerned with operating these drones should be named and shamed as soon as they are caught and arrested regardless of their age.
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GDB
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:33 pm

MarkLattimer wrote:
This nonsense is still in progress? Really?? I truly can't believe this...I'm shocked/thunderstruck/gobsmacked!

It's a civilian drone and not a multi-billion dollar stealth platform at 50k feet for crying out loud. That drone has all kinds signatures: visual, aural (ie. it's noisy), infrared, even radio (which should pinpoint the location of the controller). As much as they need to catch the clown(s) behind this (and punish them HARD), they also need to give a full accounting of how on Earth it was possible for a drone operator to shut down a major airport for >24 hrs.... Unreal....


If it was like a drone you described, you'd have a point. Is it not obvious that a small, easily brought, cheap, easily used, remotely controlled flying object, as a means to cause disruption, is way more effective.
You can carry them, very easily move them, buy a bunch (if it is one person), without any suspicion.
As they are not in themselves dangerous objects, they are classed as toys.
So ideal to use to cause disruption to a always busy, especially at this time of year, single runway international airport, with all the in built potential for any disruption to escalate, with all those flights delayed and needing diversions.

Again, anyone have a better idea as to how else to respond? You cannot have flight operations with drones buzzing the airport.
Unless there is a precedent for anything on this scale before? Since no one has cited a prior event like this I'm guessing not.
Someone being stupid or just careless with one drone near an airport does not count, this is something way beyond those incidents. This was intentional and likely was planned with more than one person involved.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:40 pm

FR has moved all of tomorrow’s Gatwick flights to STN , very impressive flexibility
Last edited by Galwayman on Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 pm

marcelh wrote:
Can’t they shoot the things with an AH64?

eric19 wrote:
No no, that's so dangerous where have people's homes not far from the airfield. Then you have to clean in the debris and it's expensive to use an army helicopter just to shoot one or two drones.

Deploying an Apache helicopter would be so much less expensive than cancelling 700 flights.
 
evank516
Posts: 1992
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Cunard wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Tonight's Norwegian JFK-LGW flight is cancelled. A colleague of mine was on it to go home for the holidays.


I'm afraid it's not just your colleague who has been affected by the cancellation of tonight's Norwegian JFK-LGW it's everyone who was supposed to fly to or from LGW because as I'm sure your aware that every flight to or from LGW has been cancelled it's affected everyone's travel plans and with about 130,000 passengers already affected by the closure this mess will take absolutely ages to recover maybe a week which isn't ideal for anyone involved considering that Christmas is only four days away.

It's an absolutely embarrassing situation and those concerned with operating these drones should be named and shamed as soon as they are caught and arrested regardless of their age.


Well aware it's not just him. Just pointing out another cancellation from this.
 
johns624
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:42 pm

12 gauge. 3.5" shell. Heavy goose loads.
 
FlyingColours
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:50 pm

devron wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
And the award for most odious response to today's events goes to 'Communities Against Gatwick Noise Emission', who, per the BBC, described the disruption as "an early Christmas present for those that suffer aircraft noise."


Add them to the suspect list, really! Holidays ruined and they think it is a holiday gift.


My thoughts exactly, I believe it is this type of group or other "green" group who started it and haven't gone public as they have realised how much bother they are in both in terms of the law, loss of sympathy from public and possible lawsuits brought in by all of those affected.

As for the CAGNE lot, when the airfield opens I sure hope they bring that pair of 727s down from Doncaster to do many many low passes ;)

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
Elementalism
Posts: 496
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:53 pm

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
The assumption being there it is one or two drones operated from one location. In reality, it could be up to 10 drones operated from multiple locations.


Think if there were this many drones we could get an actual picture of one by now.
 
max999
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 pm

Just read a report on BBC: a passenger's travel insurance told her drone disruptions are not a covered event. That means she won't be able to file a claim. I predict other passengers will run into the same issue unless they have an expensive full coverage policy (trip cancellation for any reason).
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 4423
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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 pm

B747forever wrote:
Karlsands wrote:
airbazar wrote:

Why is it embarrassing? If it is a planned event as it appears to be there really isn't a lot that can be done.
It's a well documented fact that there is no sure method of finding and stopping a drone, especially if dealing with people who know what they are doing.

How isn’t this embarrassing for anyone’s national “security”. Just sit down and think about it. It’s a damn plastic drone man


This.

I am shocked how a couple of drones can keep the UK's second largest airport closed for +24hrs. Shows how vulnerable the whole infrastructure and country is.


Bingo. The excuse of "oh well, someone wanted to do this so I guess we are helpless" shouldn't be acceptable. The US was using man portable electronic drone weapons in Syria. They won't be needing them anymore, perhaps the UK MOD could borrow a set for a few hours.
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