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Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:47 am
by Arion640
BaconButty wrote:
Some more details off wikipedia.

Image


That’s brilliant.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:47 am
by smartplane
Very little official information released. Is the drone activity linked to a threat to contaminate the area with nuclear or other chemicals? Are the authorities communicating with an individual or group? The silence is almost like counter-terrorism media powers have been invoked.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:02 am
by B747forever
BaconButty wrote:
Some more details off wikipedia.

Image


LOL.

That summarizes why this whole thing is such a national disgrace. A couple of drones vs the whole of UK national security.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:05 am
by PPVLC
johns624 wrote:
Aren't there any skeet or trap shooters left in merry ole England? That's what they get for gun control! :)


Police said they won't be shooting because of the risk of stray bullets. Btw, gun control is for common people not for the police and even if guns were free in the country what do you think the regular citizen would do in this case? Hundreds of people running to Gatwick with their guns shooting at a small drone near lots of planes full of passengers? Frankly...

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:11 am
by EWR762
EGKK (Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable extended until 0800 21st Dec.
Intended reopening is at 0800 UTC 21st Dec 2018.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:29 am
by IPFreely
EWR762 wrote:
EGKK (Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable extended until 0800 21st Dec.
Intended reopening is at 0800 UTC 21st Dec 2018.


So the drone operator now knows he or she has 8 hours for battery re-charging?

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:35 am
by Midwestindy
You've got to think BA, U2, BY, e.t.c are furious at this point. Imagine the amount of lost revenue from this incident, plus the extra resources to man the call centers which are probably heavily backlogged at this point.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 am
by TWA902fly
EWR762 wrote:
EGKK (Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable extended until 0800 21st Dec.
Intended reopening is at 0800 UTC 21st Dec 2018.


That puts it past China Eastern #201's arrival time of 6:23AM. One of only two aircraft still supposedly enroute to LGW. The other being Thomson #681, with a 3:24AM arrival (which I think just hasnt selected a diversion airport yet).

'902

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 am
by SheikhDjibouti
A3801000 wrote:
I found some photos of the stuff being used by police/military? Maybe somebody can tell us what we are looking at?


Image

At the risk of stating the obvious; it's probably a new take on a very old idea; identifying the location of a radio transmitter using triangulation. The Nazis used it to try and find Allied spies in WWII. Both sides used it to try and locate enemy land formations/aircraft/ ships at sea, etc
This modern version appears to feature two vertical aerials, and probably a processor that measures the time delay between the Drone Operator's transmissions reaching aerial #1 versus aerial #2. This gives you a direction to look in (i.e. a compass heading).

Now match this up with bearings from a second unit , and hey presto, you have what you need.

Of course this is just pure speculation by me; it might be a solar panel for keeping his coffee at the right temperature, and a briefcase full of sandwiches.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:39 am
by Midwestindy
Also another theoretical thrown out here, but this could go on indefinitely, right? I mean sure they might destroy one or two drones, but who is to say the operator just won't put more in the air after....

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:39 am
by Dieuwer
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:40 am
by Flyingdevil737
BaconButty wrote:
Some more details off wikipedia.

Image


Awesome!!!
This just made my day.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:42 am
by FA9295
TWA902fly wrote:
EWR762 wrote:
EGKK (Gatwick)
Airfield unavailable extended until 0800 21st Dec.
Intended reopening is at 0800 UTC 21st Dec 2018.


That puts it past China Eastern #201's arrival time of 6:23AM. One of only two aircraft still supposedly enroute to LGW. The other being Thomson #681, with a 3:24AM arrival (which I think just hasnt selected a diversion airport yet).

'902

Also easyJet #8150 is en route to LGW at the moment: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EZY ... /GMAD/EGKK

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:02 am
by SheikhDjibouti
Revelation wrote:
I'm not sure what role radio jamming would play, especially since we suspect more than one drone is involved.

Up thread somewhere I read that a drone would be able to out-run and evade a Police helicopter. Evade I can go with, but out-run a 160mph full size heli - not so sure. So, here's the plan; locate the drone and chase it down using the aforementioned Police helicopter. Then, when it starts it's crafty evasion tactics, turn on the jammer. Now the drone simply returns to base as programmed, most probably flying in a nice convenient straight line, all the way home to daddy. Now that's how you do it!

Revelation wrote:
How do we know we can keep jamming on without interfering with other vital communications?
I would sincerely hope that any jammer worth it's salt, would target specific wavelengths. Otherwise we would have widespread carnage and poor comms all over the world, in the style of the infamous 1980's "Russian Woodpecker". Here's the one at Chernobyl.

Image
Now that's what a full spec radio jammer looks like … and as a bonus, it glows in the dark too

BTW; thanks for the earlier salutation; I've missed you also! :cloudnine:

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:44 am
by johns624
PPVLC wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Aren't there any skeet or trap shooters left in merry ole England? That's what they get for gun control! :)


Police said they won't be shooting because of the risk of stray bullets. Btw, gun control is for common people not for the police and even if guns were free in the country what do you think the regular citizen would do in this case? Hundreds of people running to Gatwick with their guns shooting at a small drone near lots of planes full of passengers? Frankly...
Read up on the range of shotgun pellets and get back with me.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:04 am
by maint123
B747forever wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
Some more details off wikipedia.

Image


LOL.

That summarizes why this whole thing is such a national disgrace. A couple of drones vs the whole of UK national security.

Airport closed for a day and a half and counting.
The whole world might be laughing at the British incompetence but the British media like the BBC will spin it as a massive victory - 2nd battle of Britain - for the security forces.
If the area is populated and the guy has to take off from somewhere, how hard is it in this era of cctvs to get footage of its preferred route. Or even eye witnesses.
Get the Americans or Russians involved and this is over in a couple of hours.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:29 am
by NYPECO
I can't believe this has gone on this long.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:05 am
by aw70
What I find hard to believe is that no-one in the military and police seems to have given this prior thought. And has procured, for precisely this sort of occasion and scenario, and at least in small numbers, the sort of beefed up shotgun which can take out drones at sufficient distances, while not posing too much of a threat to bystanders on the ground.

To wit: a high-powered solid bullet which misses its target can cause injury or death over very large distances. So firing e.g. a normal assault rifle at a drone would obviously constitute an unacceptable risk in densely populated areas. However, shotguns, especially when fired in a generally upward direction, do not pose similar risks. They are not entirely harmless to bystanders either, especially if heavier pellets are being used: but I suppose that even lightweight birdshot (which loses practically all its energy before reaching the ground again) could easily disable a drone. So large numbers of army personnel, spread out along the airfield perimeter, armed with hunting shotguns, and strict instructions to not fire beneath a certain upwards angle, and not towards parked aircraft, would seem to be a quite efficient way to dispose of unwanted drones? Or not? I suppose there is something I am missing, as the people in charge likely know what they are doing. Any thoughts on this?

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:11 am
by LAXLHR
cc2314 wrote:
Isn't this just very very strange.. Somthing is up


I AGREE!!! ...and its something that a.netters would never believe anyway. :-)

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:31 am
by United1
Gatwick posted on their website they are going to try and operate a limited number of flights over the coming hours. So is this completely over or have they just managed to mitigate most/all of the risk of hitting a drone?

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:07 am
by sevenair
Spraying bullets everywhere is such an American way of doing things. We British respect life and how precious it is hence we close the airport and we don't have a dozen trigger happy nuts firing into the sky with gay abandon and not a thought about what a stray bullet could do.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:34 am
by sevenair
GATWICK IS OPEN

NOTAM mentions increased drone activity and 'mitigation in place'.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:40 am
by CLTRampRat
sevenair wrote:
Spraying bullets everywhere is such an American way of doing things. We British respect life and how precious it is hence we close the airport and we don't have a dozen trigger happy nuts firing into the sky with gay abandon and not a thought about what a stray bullet could do.


Spraying bullets everywhere? Really? Is that what you think we do? Don’t be absurd.

We use Flak Cannons.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:40 am
by Channex757
It strikes me that there might be a "D notice" involved here. The media can't ignore a huge airport being closed on the lead-up to one of the busiest weekends of the year, but certain aspects of the story certainly can be.

If there is some security angle involved, or a blackmail scenario, then there could be a blackout imposed on that aspect of it all. There certainly is more to this than we are being told, otherwise it would be all over by now. Looking incompetent is a small price to pay when the real story is a huge undercover effort to catch whoever this is.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:47 am
by sevenair
Rumours say that it could be an eco warrior. Gatwick is close to Brighton and Brighton is full of hard left militants. Its also home to an extreme vegan faction who bully and intimidate restaurant goers and shoppers so I'm guessing an entitled idiot has taken it upon themselves to disrupt Christmas for thousands. Gatwick being a major hub of the most efficient airlines such as Norwegian, BA leisure fleet, Ryanair and easyjet all operating high density modern planes and not gas guzzlers like up the road at Heathrow.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:50 am
by VS4ever
Channex757 wrote:
It strikes me that there might be a "D notice" involved here. The media can't ignore a huge airport being closed on the lead-up to one of the busiest weekends of the year, but certain aspects of the story certainly can be.

If there is some security angle involved, or a blackmail scenario, then there could be a blackout imposed on that aspect of it all. There certainly is more to this than we are being told, otherwise it would be all over by now. Looking incompetent is a small price to pay when the real story is a huge undercover effort to catch whoever this is.

THIS......
whatever has taken place and how incompetent it might make people look, it's still a better narrative than an EK380 dropping out of the sky on take off after hitting one or more of these things. Far Fetched, maybe...but what would you rather have while you are looking for the perpetrators of this, who frankly if they are high end enough, could really be almost anywhere, i think we all agree this is not John Smith with his 50 quid drone from his local store, something is afoot, that much is true, we may never find out what this actually was. i hope the release of flights goes unhindered and we can get back to normal. But this is scary as hell and i like many hope that whoever did this is locked up and they find a way for it to be a lot more than 5 years.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:05 am
by sevenair
Thomas Cook/Condor 757 just landed as a repositioning flight from East Midlands (Nottingham - a few hours north of London if you're not familiar).

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:12 am
by pdp
sevenair wrote:
Thomas Cook/Condor 757 just landed as a repositioning flight from East Midlands (Nottingham - a few hours north of London if you're not familiar).


Being pedantic, it's closer to Derby, has a DE postcode and area code, and is in Leicestershire ;)

In all seriousness, good news so far!

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:13 am
by sevenair
China Eastern about to touch down. Several repositioning flights inbound. We have a functioning airport at last! What a few days it's been but safety is not negotiable not for the crew or passengers but also our neighbours close by the airports.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:14 am
by VS4ever
flightaware is saying MU201 just landed from PVG.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CES201

that must be a relief if that's the case, a full one on the ground safely.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:19 am
by sevenair
pdp wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Thomas Cook/Condor 757 just landed as a repositioning flight from East Midlands (Nottingham - a few hours north of London if you're not familiar).


Being pedantic, it's closer to Derby, has a DE postcode and area code, and is in Leicestershire ;)

In all seriousness, good news so far!


I take your point :) I just like to make it easier for people to understand and imagine Nottingham is a place more familiar than Derby.

There's nothing I hate more than seeing a post like 'KP just flew a 38M from TYZ to BHF after a RON then went to STQ via NMK where it went AOG due problem with the PSU in 21A' whee you have to Google everything just to understand the post.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:21 am
by sevenair
Lots of cancellations still as there are a lot of aircraft and crew out of position. Hopefully as many people can get to where they need to be for the big day

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:22 am
by sevenair
Norwegian about to approach now. Today is not a day for flight plan fuel! Well it never is for London but today's not the time to be messing about.

Gatwick TAF

rain showers
TAF: EGKK 210605Z 2106/2212 22012KT 8000 -RA BKN006 BECMG 2106/2109 26018G30KT 9999 NSW SCT030 TEMPO 2106/2107 4000 RADZ BECMG 2114/2117 23013KT TEMPO 2121/2202 25016G28KT 6000 SHRA

Its not the best drone friendly weather, certainly not gusting 30 this morning. Its currently broken at 500'. At 500' the perps would need to be closer to the airport to remain visual with it. Getting planes out is one thing but getting them back is a different story. Let's hope they weather is awful.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:32 am
by GDB
Dieuwer wrote:
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??


There will likely be copycats, so wait until someone does the same at a very busy US airport.
My guess is the effect will be similar.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:01 am
by VeeCee
Looks like departures are resuming. Slowly.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:05 am
by NYPECO
Flightradar24 shows flights departing. Did the drone operator decide to take a nap?

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:18 am
by AirlineCritic
What a pain for the travellers and airlines.

But for all the talk on triangulation and radio jamming, I would guess that capable attackers (which these might not have been, of course) could also program their drone to operate autonomously, i.e., no control communication. It would be a bit more difficult to avoid using GPS, although there too there are some alternative navigation techniques.

Finally, the perpetrators wouldn't necessarily need to be present on the airfield, except perhaps dropping drones off earlier, in nearby locations. Drop ten drones in the forests within a few miles off the airport, program each to pop up on its turn every couple of hours and fly to the airport... massive confusion and economic damage results. Or worse, program a swarm of them to head to the take-off path.

All of these modes are very difficult to defend against. I don't agree that it is embarrassing for the police force. Just a standard asymmetric situation.

Can radar pick up small drones? Maybe it should, going forward...

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:58 am
by KLM747er
The first BA Boeing 777-200ER recovery flight is on it's way back to LGW from CWL.
This aircraft was the differted Orlando flight. The reg of the aircraft is G-VIIT and is now operating BA9154 back to LGW.
The aircraft is scheduled today to operate the BA flight 2037 back to Orlando.

KLM747er

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:46 am
by David_itl
Using Flightradar 24. I've come up with this list of where all the diversions went to:

Image
Image
Image

110 flights in all - some were flightplanned to go to alternates (notably Aurigny and Ryanair)

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:55 am
by Virtual737
David_itl wrote:
Using Flightradar 24. I've come up with this list of where all the diversions went to:

Image
Image
Image

110 flights in all - some were flightplanned to go to alternates (notably Aurigny and Ryanair)


Only a single diversion to Bournemouth, and that an easyJet A320. I am surprised.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:00 am
by LAXLHR
3 6 hours later.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:34 am
by BirdBrain
I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that airport spotting may have just become more difficult as a result of this.

What a nightmare for all those involved trying to travel or keep the place running. Not an easy situation to be in.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:47 am
by luchtzak
BirdBrain wrote:
I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that airport spotting may have just become more difficult as a result of this.

What a nightmare for all those involved trying to travel or keep the place running. Not an easy situation to be in.


Why should that be more difficult ? It's the spotters that are reporting strange incidents!

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:54 am
by Aither
I agree that spotters are actually useful to check what's around the airport as well.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:00 pm
by Dufo
Spotters are like security personnel, but they also use common sense, brain and are not brainwashed.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:17 pm
by jumbojet
GDB wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??


There will likely be copycats, so wait until someone does the same at a very busy US airport.
My guess is the effect will be similar.


couldn't be any further from the truth.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:42 pm
by Bhoy
pdp wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Thomas Cook/Condor 757 just landed as a repositioning flight from East Midlands (Nottingham - a few hours north of London if you're not familiar).


Being pedantic, it's closer to Derby, has a DE postcode and area code, and is in Leicestershire ;)

In all seriousness, good news so far!

Will you tell them, or shall I?

Image

(Although I agree, I took the bus to Derby train station rather than Nottingham on arrival, even though it's in Leicestershire).

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:48 pm
by johns624
sevenair wrote:
Spraying bullets everywhere is such an American way of doing things. We British respect life and how precious it is hence we close the airport and we don't have a dozen trigger happy nuts firing into the sky with gay abandon and not a thought about what a stray bullet could do.
Once again, read up on the range and penetration characteristics of shotgun pellets and get back to us.

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:53 pm
by airbazar
Dieuwer wrote:
Joke is on the British. How on earth can ONE drone crash an entire airport AND evade law enforcement??

How on earth could a few guys with box-cutters shutdown the largest air market in the world for multiple days?

Re: Gatwick closed because of 2 drones

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:02 pm
by dtw2hyd
Any plausible theories on how a few recreational drones took hostage of airspace for 32 hours?

Even with 4 hr endurance(ignoring 20 min standard), they have to fly back to their base to be relaunched 7-8 times.

And just one piece of video evidence??? I have a feeling we haven't heard the whole story.