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Channex757
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Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:38 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ce-454578/

The restrictions on the Trent 7000 engines for the A330NEO have been lifted, and full 330 minute ETOPS issued. This also bodes well for the Trent 1000-TEN and durability of that engine, plus any replacements done under durability upgrades on earlier production engines using new parts.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:19 pm

Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Awesome news. This will certainly help TAP with the paperwork for their operation. The 500 cycle limit would have created quite a burden.
 
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AECM
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:16 pm

With this certificate i expect TAP to receive 2 more A339 until the end of the year.
 
RB211trent
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:32 pm

zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales
 
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smithbs
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:22 pm

RB211trent wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...
 
fsabo
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:22 pm

smithbs wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...


You can also ask GE. They've had their share of icing problems, in flight shutdowns, but seem to be better able to keep a lid on it.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:25 pm

smithbs wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...

ETOPS330 ops are no joke. 330 minutes is a seriously long way from a diversion port. The certification requirements should not be being expedited for the sake of convenience. The Trent 800 didn't achieve ETOPS330 certification until 20 years after EIS.

Which A330neo operators have a need for ETOPS330 anyway?
First to fly the 787-9
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:31 pm

fsabo wrote:
You can also ask GE. They've had their share of icing problems, in flight shutdowns, but seem to be better able to keep a lid on it.

Indeed. I don't have any evidence to prove it, but I would not be at all surprised if a PR firm working on GE's behalf was paying certain a.netters to control the narrative on GE/CFM issues. RR and PW always seem to get held to much tighter scrutiny on here.
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lightsaber
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:40 pm

smithbs wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...

Yeah.. I dislike writing this, but I think the FAA needs to update the standards.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
WIederling
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:40 pm

zkojq wrote:
fsabo wrote:
You can also ask GE. They've had their share of icing problems, in flight shutdowns, but seem to be better able to keep a lid on it.

Indeed. I don't have any evidence to prove it, but I would not be at all surprised if a PR firm working on GE's behalf was paying certain a.netters to control the narrative on GE/CFM issues. RR and PW always seem to get held to much tighter scrutiny on here.

Air France A380 "fanless" engine "issue" ( GP7200 ) instantly turned into an RR bash fest.
You can also observe the effect in media and news outlets.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:51 pm

smithbs wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Just my opinion, but I don't think that any engine should be able to achieve ETOPS 240/330/370 certification without having had at least two or three years in service and with an excellent record of reliability during that time.

The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...


Its not possible to "replicate these in service timescales" unless you have a time machine. Accelerated wear testing isn't a substitute for real world experience. Haven't we had enough reminders of this with almost every new engine tech in the last 15 years?
 
smartplane
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:29 pm

With twin engine aircraft, the margin between actual routes flown and ETOPS limits translates to a premium discount on route specific hull and liability insurance. For example, all other factors being identical, the premium to operate an ETOPS 230 flight with an ETOPS 240 aircraft is higher than if operated by an ETOPS 330 aircraft.
 
godsbeloved
Posts: 65
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:47 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
smithbs wrote:
RB211trent wrote:
The engine testing requirements do replicate these in service timescales


I think there is a lot of suspicion about that due to certain recent engines that claimed this, yet in service have shown significant issues. Ask PW and RR about which engines those are...


Its not possible to "replicate these in service timescales" unless you have a time machine. Accelerated wear testing isn't a substitute for real world experience. Haven't we had enough reminders of this with almost every new engine tech in the last 15 years?


Still aviation became safer in those 15 years. Either the safety regulators aren't crazy or there is a God and he is a fan of aviation...
 
tepidhalibut
Posts: 202
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:00 am

zkojq wrote:
The Trent 800 didn't achieve ETOPS330 certification until 20 years after EIS.


That might be related to the fact that at EIS, the ETOPS330 regulations did not exist.

The Trent 800 was (one of the?) first to certify with "ETOPS out of the box", and since then it has been boringly reliable. ETOPS beyond 180 only became possible in late 2000s, and I do recall that even then, the Trent 800 met the required IFSD rate requirement... based upon real service data. (Approval in 2010, IIRC)

Oh, and I suspect that the GE90 didn't get ETOPS330 Certification at EIS either ;)
 
tepidhalibut
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:19 pm

Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:02 am

I have also heard that the FAA have also type approved the Trent7000 engine. The TCDS might be delayed by the DoT funding issues, but sounds like good news for RR etc. Well done RR.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:26 am

WIederling wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Indeed. I don't have any evidence to prove it, but I would not be at all surprised if a PR firm working on GE's behalf was paying certain a.netters to control the narrative on GE/CFM issues. RR and PW always seem to get held to much tighter scrutiny on here.

Air France A380 "fanless" engine "issue" ( GP7200 ) instantly turned into an RR bash fest.
You can also observe the effect in media and news outlets.


Yes, I certainly noticed the way that the conversation was steered in that thread.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
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Re: Trent 7000 gains ETOPS330

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:55 am

My question about engines is less about the metallic parts and more about how durable are the circuit boards. And how strongly is the inter-operating software engineered.

The Lion Air 737-8 Max crash was perhaps an example of a new systems problem that wasn't mechanical, but it was an issue.

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