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capshandler
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Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:58 pm

Some news from Spanish Financial Times ‘Expansión’

(Link in Spanish only)
http://www.expansion.com/empresas/trans ... b47a2.html

It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.

We’re reaching extreme nonsense levels...

Cheers
 
hz747300
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:05 pm

I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.
Keep on truckin'...
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Politicians from both sides are putting pressure of each other. At the end, and from a customer side, IB and BA will be operating as they are today, whether it's within IAG umbrella or not is another matter.

EU commission says that IAG needs to have 50%+ ownership based in the EU and British politics said it's OK how it's today. Does this going to mean either BA or IB will be out of business after Brexit? No need to answer.
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Luftymatt
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:14 pm

hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

:checkmark: Exactly, well said.

capshandler wrote:
It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.


This doesn't make any sense to me, IB are a Spanish registered airline that can't fly in Spain because of Brexit??? Am I missing something here? If the article means flying between Spain and the UK, then are all countries IB fly's to within the EU? No of course they're not.
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NameOmitted
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:23 pm

hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

I get what you are trying to say, but Y2K was a very legitimate series of problems that were largely avoided through millions of dollars of over thinking and hype.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:28 pm

Luftymatt wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

:checkmark: Exactly, well said.

capshandler wrote:
It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.


This doesn't make any sense to me, IB are a Spanish registered airline that can't fly in Spain because of Brexit??? Am I missing something here? If the article means flying between Spain and the UK, then are all countries IB fly's to within the EU? No of course they're not.


I think the EU's foreign ownership laws would restrict any airline holding company (i.e. IAG) being more than 50% owned and controlled by investors from outside the EU (i.e. the UK in the case of Brexit). In the event of a "no-deal" Brexit, IAG will be majority owned by persons outside the EU by non-EU citizens. However that is taking the law at it's absolute word and seeing as they have already guaranteed an "extension" in the case of no deal, we can see the word of law within the EU = the political will of the EU.

Scaremongering, nothing more. Funnily enough BA will be absolutely untouched from what I can see in the event of no deal (other than the Level service they codeshare through Openskies' ORY-EWR service).

This seems to be a great example of what the EU has to lose if it doesn't get an agreement with the UK government.
Last edited by BA0197 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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capshandler
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:29 pm

Luftymatt wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

:checkmark: Exactly, well said.

capshandler wrote:
It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.


This doesn't make any sense to me, IB are a Spanish registered airline that can't fly in Spain because of Brexit??? Am I missing something here? If the article means flying between Spain and the UK, then are all countries IB fly's to within the EU? No of course they're not.


The article states that for legal purposes Iberia is considered British as it’s part of IAG...utterly nonsens for me.
Last edited by capshandler on Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:39 pm

capshandler wrote:
The article states that for legal purposes Iberia is considered British as it’s part of IAG...utterly nonsens for me.


The article even says “Iberia, as being part of IAG, a British company”

IAG is a Spanish company, registered in Spain with Spanish Tax ID and legal address in Spain.

While Board meetings take place allegedly in London and that could be a problem, I’m more than sure there will be more EU shareholders than UK ones... so calling IAG “British” is way too much.

Also, they way IAG was formed, there were several provisions made for BA and IB to retain their respective nationalities (and rights). While IB is 100% owned by IAG, it is controlled by a Spanish company holding 50,1% of voting rights.

But again....
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:04 pm

If there is a hard Brexit I expect another transition period of one or two years. Drugs, food, all transportation, aviation and car parts, sport teams, doctors and nurses - all of those will have to be worked out, and few preparations have been made. It will not be a apocalypse, but it will be a bureaucratic hell.
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hz747300
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
If there is a hard Brexit I expect another transition period of one or two years. Drugs, food, all transportation, aviation and car parts, sport teams, doctors and nurses - all of those will have to be worked out, and few preparations have been made. It will not be a apocalypse, but it will be a bureaucratic hell.


I agree, but only because the bureaucrats want it to be. It could be very straightforward but that would put other nations at risk of leaving.
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AnsettB727
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:24 pm

Way to turn a thread into something which resembles a British tabloid's comments section. Brexit is exceedingly depressing, and people who think it can be easily solved are either deluded or ill-informed.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:29 pm

Aisak wrote:
capshandler wrote:
The article states that for legal purposes Iberia is considered British as it’s part of IAG...utterly nonsens for me.


The article even says “Iberia, as being part of IAG, a British company”

IAG is a Spanish company, registered in Spain with Spanish Tax ID and legal address in Spain.

While Board meetings take place allegedly in London and that could be a problem, I’m more than sure there will be more EU shareholders than UK ones... so calling IAG “British” is way too much.

Also, they way IAG was formed, there were several provisions made for BA and IB to retain their respective nationalities (and rights). While IB is 100% owned by IAG, it is controlled by a Spanish company holding 50,1% of voting rights.

But again....


In my experience everyones always called IAG a Spanish run group, but i can see why people would think it’s British being listed in London.

GSK plc is listed on the NYSE, but it doesnt make it American!
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:40 pm

hz - trade agreements are notoriously difficult even in the best of circumstances. GB needs to do dozens of them with dozens of countries. Some of us doubt that GB has the workforce of technicians, legal staff, diplomats to do this expeditiously. It somehow will get mostly done, but not well and it will not be pretty.
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:47 pm

BA0197 wrote:
Scaremongering, nothing more. Funnily enough BA will be absolutely untouched from what I can see in the event of no deal (other than the Level service they codeshare through Openskies' ORY-EWR service).

This seems to be a great example of what the EU has to lose if it doesn't get an agreement with the UK government.


BA as every other airline in the UK will be limited to their 2018 number of frequencies to EU states. Admittedly it is a relatively minor nuisance compared to what the EU could have chosen to do in case of a no deal.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:51 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

I get what you are trying to say, but Y2K was a very legitimate series of problems that were largely avoided through millions of dollars of over thinking and hype.


Yeah, funny isn't it. Legions of IT guys flag up real problems for the business world and work frantically to fix them - successfully - then get called out for "crying wolf" because they did a good job... :roll:
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EI564
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:55 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
hz - trade agreements are notoriously difficult even in the best of circumstances. GB needs to do dozens of them with dozens of countries. Some of us doubt that GB has the workforce of technicians, legal staff, diplomats to do this expeditiously. It somehow will get mostly done, but not well and it will not be pretty.


Exactly. The recent EU-Japan trade deal took 5 years to construct (I believe) and it certainly wasn't as emotive as Brexit is to the UK.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:00 pm

BA0197 wrote:
Luftymatt wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

:checkmark: Exactly, well said.

capshandler wrote:
It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.


This doesn't make any sense to me, IB are a Spanish registered airline that can't fly in Spain because of Brexit??? Am I missing something here? If the article means flying between Spain and the UK, then are all countries IB fly's to within the EU? No of course they're not.


I think the EU's foreign ownership laws would restrict any airline holding company (i.e. IAG) being more than 50% owned and controlled by investors from outside the EU (i.e. the UK in the case of Brexit). In the event of a "no-deal" Brexit, IAG will be majority owned by persons outside the EU by non-EU citizens. However that is taking the law at it's absolute word and seeing as they have already guaranteed an "extension" in the case of no deal, we can see the word of law within the EU = the political will of the EU.

Scaremongering, nothing more. Funnily enough BA will be absolutely untouched from what I can see in the event of no deal (other than the Level service they codeshare through Openskies' ORY-EWR service).

This seems to be a great example of what the EU has to lose if it doesn't get an agreement with the UK government.

The EU doesn’t need to have an agreement with the UK. The UK decided to leave and become a 3rd party country. Why would the UK have more rights than the US, SA or Australia?! This feeling of superiority of the Brits is just rediculous since they have shaped the EU as it is to today. They must have known the consequences. Unless another agreement comes into place, the EU has to be fair to 3rd party countries. And the UK is one of them. If they don’t like it, bad luck.
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:03 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

I get what you are trying to say, but Y2K was a very legitimate series of problems that were largely avoided through millions of dollars of over thinking and hype.


Yeah, funny isn't it. Legions of IT guys flag up real problems for the business world and work frantically to fix them - successfully - then get called out for "crying wolf" because they did a good job... :roll:

This y2k as a hard Brexit sends all of Europe into a bad recession. It would hurt borrowing in France, but pretty much stop it in Spain, Italy, and Greece. Of course the UK will be majorly impacted, but most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.

So there is either a solution or not. The cost of staying in the EU became too high.

Either both sides compromise or neither.

This is like the mid-East. To an outsider, grow up and move forward. Jobs can be destroyed far faster than they move. There is certain business that isn't going to move.

So IB will be able to fly in Spain or the Spanish evonomy collapses destroying the Euro in the process. It is hard for me to take seriously any other solution.

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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:12 pm

capshandler wrote:
Some news from Spanish Financial Times ‘Expansión’

(Link in Spanish only)
http://www.expansion.com/empresas/trans ... b47a2.html

It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.

We’re reaching extreme nonsense levels...

Cheers


Not nonsensical at all. If you operate within one country using another country as your base and if that's not allowed, it's not allowed. Brexit changes the rules of engagement, and GB can't cherry pick to make it work for itself. You can't be half divorced, and there will be casualties.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
I get what you are trying to say, but Y2K was a very legitimate series of problems that were largely avoided through millions of dollars of over thinking and hype.


Yeah, funny isn't it. Legions of IT guys flag up real problems for the business world and work frantically to fix them - successfully - then get called out for "crying wolf" because they did a good job... :roll:

This y2k as a hard Brexit sends all of Europe into a bad recession. It would hurt borrowing in France, but pretty much stop it in Spain, Italy, and Greece. Of course the UK will be majorly impacted, but most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.

So there is either a solution or not. The cost of staying in the EU became too high.

Either both sides compromise or neither.

This is like the mid-East. To an outsider, grow up and move forward. Jobs can be destroyed far faster than they move. There is certain business that isn't going to move.

So IB will be able to fly in Spain or the Spanish evonomy collapses destroying the Euro in the process. It is hard for me to take seriously any other solution.

Lightsaber

There was a deal on the table. The UK parliament didn’t like it. Their problem. I think everyone in the continent is fed up with this entitlement attitude of the UK. While in the EU they had the best deal in form of opt outs. Now they want out but with many opt ins. That would be unfair to the likes of Norway and Iceland. And don’t worry the EU won’t implode because of Brexit.
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JayinKitsap
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:00 pm

There is no trade agreement between the EU and the USA, it was tried several times but the EU couldn't get all on their side to agree. With BREXIT trade with the EU will follow WTO rules.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 pm

On the other side of the coin, what happens to FR UK ops?
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:25 am

AIR MALTA wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Yeah, funny isn't it. Legions of IT guys flag up real problems for the business world and work frantically to fix them - successfully - then get called out for "crying wolf" because they did a good job... :roll:

This y2k as a hard Brexit sends all of Europe into a bad recession. It would hurt borrowing in France, but pretty much stop it in Spain, Italy, and Greece. Of course the UK will be majorly impacted, but most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.

So there is either a solution or not. The cost of staying in the EU became too high.

Either both sides compromise or neither.

This is like the mid-East. To an outsider, grow up and move forward. Jobs can be destroyed far faster than they move. There is certain business that isn't going to move.

So IB will be able to fly in Spain or the Spanish evonomy collapses destroying the Euro in the process. It is hard for me to take seriously any other solution.

Lightsaber

There was a deal on the table. The UK parliament didn’t like it. Their problem. I think everyone in the continent is fed up with this entitlement attitude of the UK. While in the EU they had the best deal in form of opt outs. Now they want out but with many opt ins. That would be unfair to the likes of Norway and Iceland. And don’t worry the EU won’t implode because of Brexit.


The real problem is that within the UK there is absolutely no agreement at all on what they want. Actually, in the rest of Europe Brexit is not a big deal dominating the headlines but a sideshow where everyone is looking at a slow motion British car crash. Yes it affects GDP of all parties negatively (both UK and EU) but no the sky will not come down and everything will be resolved in the end. But I can assure that IAG has a huge legal headache.
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sevenair
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:35 am

Wow. I can’t keep up! So Iberia can’t fly in Spain ‘because of brexit’ as its British owned and ‘British Airways will be Spanish’ after brexit Perhaps they can just have a good old swap over? Iberia becomes BA and BA become Iberia. Simples. The only thing is ‘flights will be grounded’ anyway for the British airline according to the latest. It’s going to be interesting having an Iberico ham baguette and cava for breakfast on UK domestic!

I just find it funny how one minute IAG are Spanish and BA will become Spanish or will remain British and will be grounded. But then we are told IAG and therefore Iberia are actually British and Iberia won’t be able to fly in Spain.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:55 am

capshandler wrote:
Some news from Spanish Financial Times ‘Expansión’

(Link in Spanish only)
http://www.expansion.com/empresas/trans ... b47a2.html

It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.

We’re reaching extreme nonsense levels...

Cheers


I cannot read the article as I do not have any Spanish, but who exactly 'informed' IB of this? Does the article cite any source?

Why are the Spanish scaremongering over Brexit? To what end?
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BrianDromey
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:17 am

lightsaber wrote:
So IB will be able to fly in Spain or the Spanish evonomy collapses destroying the Euro in the process. It is hard for me to take seriously any other solution. Lightsaber


There is what you wish would happen and what will actually happen, economic collapse in Spain and the death of the Euro is far less likely than UK recession and serial devaluations in Sterling. Spain will continue to be connected to the rest of Europe Ryanair (an EU airline) is the market leader in short-haul capacity to Spain, they will fly regardless. The Spanish economy will not 'collapse' after Brexit, British tourism is important but far from the only economic output in Spain. For intercontinental flights an airline like AirNostrum, which is at least 75% owned by a Spanish building materials group, could be the legal operator and wet-lease capacity from Iberia. Individual governments remain the 'sovereign' right to licence airlines into and out of their national territories. The Spanish may find it most convenient to allow UK airlines to operate domestically within Spain and to/from non-EU destinations.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:28 am

I wonder where the sense for reality the British had for so many centuries has gone.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:28 am

hz747300 wrote:
I feel like Brexit is the new Y2K. Some of the stories about ATM cards are a joke...like the global systems would stop working for British cards only. And this nonsense is being retweeted by people who should have some semblance of intelligence.

The Y2K problem was only averted by the years if warning ahead thus appropriate changes or workaround on critical systems can be made. How much lead time di we have now?
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sevenair
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:58 am

vhtje wrote:
capshandler wrote:
Some news from Spanish Financial Times ‘Expansión’

(Link in Spanish only)
http://www.expansion.com/empresas/trans ... b47a2.html

It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.

We’re reaching extreme nonsense levels...

Cheers


I cannot read the article as I do not have any Spanish, but who exactly 'informed' IB of this? Does the article cite any source?

Why are the Spanish scaremongering over Brexit? To what end?


The Spanish like to stir the pot. Particularly when it comes to Gibraltar and it’s hypocrisy over Ceuta and Melilla.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:22 pm

I would imagine there are enough dual citizens that can count for ownership to maintain a majority of both UK and EU owned. How much does WW own personally?

Regardless, don't both BA and IB require majority local ownership already to comply with existing bilaterals that predate the common aviation market?
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
I would imagine there are enough dual citizens that can count for ownership to maintain a majority of both UK and EU owned. How much does WW own personally?

Regardless, don't both BA and IB require majority local ownership already to comply with existing bilaterals that predate the common aviation market?


I don't believe that WW has dual citizenship, just Irish. At most he owns 0.05% of IAG, if he has exercised all his share options over the years he will have something in the region on 1,000,000 shares. The share capital of IAG is 1,992,178,634. So not much, relatively. easyJet might have a unique advantage in that 33% (at least) is owned by dual EU-UK citizens, but this very unusual.

I do think this is probably a storm in a teacup. Companies like AF/KL, LH and IAG are operating to countries without an EU Openskies agreement, seemingly without issue. There might have to be a bit of creative leasing within the IAG group, but it's hardly beyond the wit of aviation entrepreneurs. There are rumours elsewhere of Norwegian re-engaging with IAG with regards to investment/assett-stripping/merger. It's hard to image that IAG would tackle Norwegian (with its significant UK market) and Brexit at the same time.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:47 pm

The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.
 
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:55 pm

philabos wrote:
On the other side of the coin, what happens to FR UK ops?

The first aircraft is G-RUKA and the airline Ryanair UK commences operations in January 2019.

So it's all in hand. Home base will be at STN naturally.
 
Kadish
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:00 pm

The Spanish like to stir the pot. Particularly when it comes to Gibraltar and it’s hypocrisy over Ceuta and Melilla.[/quote]

Before saying anything read a bit of history and then you will realize that you are utterly wrong here.

But, if someone is being hypocrite, is the uk, I want to be out but with previleges....the old kingdom times has gone long ago. Face reality.
 
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enilria
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:01 pm

capshandler wrote:
Some news from Spanish Financial Times ‘Expansión’

(Link in Spanish only)
http://www.expansion.com/empresas/trans ... b47a2.html

It seems that Iberia has already been informed that in case a no deal Brexit, they’d have a temporary extension of their flying permit but limited to one year so they can have time to base their operations in the EU.

We’re reaching extreme nonsense levels...

Cheers

I wonder if AA will complain about their 5th freedom? Nah...
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:17 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.

Do you really believe that? Or is that what the comments section in the Daily Mail says? Weren't BMW, Mercedes and VW already have convinced the EU to make a deal by now? Thats the trouble with depending on others - they may not share your perspective.

Over the past 40 years the EU (and its predecessor entities) have built a complex series of treaties and agreements to align nations on a number of fronts. There are positives and negatives to this, but these are irrelevant at this stage. The point now is that on the 31st of March the UK cases to be a party to any of the EU agreements. The UK becomes a 3rd country and has no agreements with the EU. What the UK government have not been doing over the past 3 years is tackling that difficult fact and preparing for the changed legal landscape. The UK parliament has been too busy arguing over who's "silly" to come up with a negotiation plan. The EU were quite clear that there would be no cake and eating it. They've stuck to their position. Is that bullying?
 
EI564
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:19 pm

[url][/url]
WaywardMemphian wrote:
The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.


The EU has already agreed a deal with the UK's PM. But it seems 25% of her party wants to bully her to make a harder deal and the other 25% want's a softer deal. Its up to the UK to make up its mind up what it wants. Maybe when it realises that there is pounds at play and the EU isn't going to give the UK all the benefits of membership, without it being an actual member.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:28 pm

EI564 wrote:
[url][/url]
WaywardMemphian wrote:
The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.


The EU has already agreed a deal with the UK's PM. But it seems 25% of her party wants to bully her to make a harder deal and the other 25% want's a softer deal. Its up to the UK to make up its mind up what it wants. Maybe when it realises that there is pounds at play and the EU isn't going to give the UK all the benefits of membership, without it being an actual member.


Because they know the EU would have to cave in with more favorible terms. There's been too much dictating of terms from Brussels. They need to know there's take it or leave it. That is why you are seeing these little side deals and stop gapstarting to pop up. It shows you they know money and it's making is the most important thing in the end.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:54 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
EI564 wrote:
[url][/url]
WaywardMemphian wrote:
The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.


The EU has already agreed a deal with the UK's PM. But it seems 25% of her party wants to bully her to make a harder deal and the other 25% want's a softer deal. Its up to the UK to make up its mind up what it wants. Maybe when it realises that there is pounds at play and the EU isn't going to give the UK all the benefits of membership, without it being an actual member.


Because they know the EU would have to cave in with more favorible terms.


Oh for... no they won't!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46594341

There's been too much dictating of terms from Brussels.


No there hasn't. They've been unbelievably patient with the petulant, tantrum-throwing toddler that is the UK.

They need to know there's take it or leave it.


Directed at the UK government...

That is why you are seeing these little side deals and stop gapstarting to pop up. It shows you they know money and it's making is the most important thing in the end.


?!?

I've seen no side-deal from any EU countries at all. What I have been seeing recently is *Brexiteers* suggesting they can happen (which they can't). Show me an ACTUAL deal!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
AIR MALTA
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:57 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
The EU is trying to bully the UK into remaining. If there's a hard Brexit, their posture will change dramatically. Too many Pounds, Euros, Dollars at play.

This has changed. If you talk to people in the continent, most of the people want the UK out and asap. Enough time wasted with with the arrogant England (everyone has a soft spot for Scots). The internal market and the fairness between members of the EU and those of the EEA are way more
Important than a 3rd party country to be like the UK.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:13 pm

Legal issues have a way of sorting themselves out, so I sincerely doubt there would be any issues with IB not being able to operate. Worst case scenario would be that IAG sells a percentage of IB to a European partner, but it's not clear it would need to go that far.
 
philabos
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:11 pm

Channex757 wrote:
philabos wrote:
On the other side of the coin, what happens to FR UK ops?

The first aircraft is G-RUKA and the airline Ryanair UK commences operations in January 2019.

So it's all in hand. Home base will be at STN naturally.

Thanks.
Should have known they had a Plan B.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
I get what you are trying to say, but Y2K was a very legitimate series of problems that were largely avoided through millions of dollars of over thinking and hype.


Yeah, funny isn't it. Legions of IT guys flag up real problems for the business world and work frantically to fix them - successfully - then get called out for "crying wolf" because they did a good job... :roll:

This y2k as a hard Brexit sends all of Europe into a bad recession. It would hurt borrowing in France, but pretty much stop it in Spain, Italy, and Greece. Of course the UK will be majorly impacted, but most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.

So there is either a solution or not. The cost of staying in the EU became too high.

Either both sides compromise or neither.

This is like the mid-East. To an outsider, grow up and move forward. Jobs can be destroyed far faster than they move. There is certain business that isn't going to move.

So IB will be able to fly in Spain or the Spanish evonomy collapses destroying the Euro in the process. It is hard for me to take seriously any other solution.

Lightsaber


Great post. You are right, most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.
 
YYZYYT
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:02 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Legal issues have a way of sorting themselves out, so I sincerely doubt there would be any issues with IB not being able to operate. Worst case scenario would be that IAG sells a percentage of IB to a European partner, but it's not clear it would need to go that far.


Obviously.

I'm sure that there are rules which limit an airline's ability to operate based on foreign ownership, and these will clearly apply to IB. However (even aside form the extension granted) I'm also pretty sure that IAG has - or can find - some smart lawyers somewhere to read those rules, and to advise how to get around them. And, unlike the Brexit / May v. parliament / "I got my popcorn, on with the show" fiasco, restructuring can happen in a matter of days (if needed).

I'd chalk this story up as scaremongering myself.
 
EI564
Posts: 264
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Great post. You are right, most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.

Interesting. I don't think anyone told the continent. Or they didn't believe anyone who did.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:01 pm

Arion640 wrote:
most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.


Either you're trolling like nobody's business or you are deluded beyond what I thought was possible.

Tell me honestly, have you ever lived outside the UK? Have you ever even spent much time outside the UK?
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:04 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.


Either you're trolling like nobody's business or you are deluded beyond what I thought was possible.

Tell me honestly, have you ever lived outside the UK? Have you ever even spent much time outside the UK?


Who said I lived in the UK?
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14262
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:01 am

The biggest shareholders of a publicly traded company are publicly known. For IAG :

Qatar Airways Luxembourg Sarl 20.010%
Collective investment institutions managed by Capital Research and Management Company 9.967%
Funds and accounts managed by investors controlled by BlackRock Inc 3.121%
Collective investment institutions managed by Lansdowne Developed Markets Master Fund Ltd 0.491%
Pension funds and mutual benefit societies managed by Invesco Limited and its subsidiaries 1.986%
Funds managed by Lansdowne Partners (UK) LLP 1.971%

So Qatar US US US UK UK.

It seems very likely IAG is more than 50% non-EU owned if the UK is put into the non-EU category, which it will be on Brexit day.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:21 am

Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
most of the economic destruction will be on the continent.


Either you're trolling like nobody's business or you are deluded beyond what I thought was possible.

Tell me honestly, have you ever lived outside the UK? Have you ever even spent much time outside the UK?


Who said I lived in the UK?

Then you are even more clueless on what Brexit entails for Continental Europe and for the UK...
 
Cunard
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Re: Brexit: ‘IB wouldn’t be able to fly in Spain in case of no deal’

Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:01 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Either you're trolling like nobody's business or you are deluded beyond what I thought was possible.

Tell me honestly, have you ever lived outside the UK? Have you ever even spent much time outside the UK?


Who said I lived in the UK?

Then you are even more clueless on what Brexit entails for Continental Europe and for the UK...


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