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crazyplane1234
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:58 am

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:03 am

workhorse wrote:
Either that or they cannot take local passengers on PVG-WNZ-PVG section.

Otherwise, on PVG-WNZ you would have local Chinese passengers arriving into the international terminal and going through passport control (while they possibly don't even have a passport), and on WNZ-PVG, in addition to that problem, you could also in theory have people flying to Europe without a visa (just buy a WNZ-PVG ticket and stay on the plane in PVG).

If they don't take local passengers, it means you have a half empty 332 flying between PVG and WNZ with international pax onboard only, which does not help the flight's finanicals a lot.


My assumption is that passengers only flying on the domestic sector will be required to provide passports. (Unless China handles things in a different manner?)
Also, passengers will be forced to disembark at each stop.

zakuivcustom wrote:
I'm making the statement just b/c there are far too many a.nutter crying about how 787 is not a "point-to-point" plane, that it's the same old, same old, that everyone especially in China should buy 100x A380-1000ULR. But yes, Chinese do love their A330s.


The reason they claim it is not a "point-to-point" plane is because Paris is still a hub. A more accurate term would be "hub-to-point."
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:44 am

crazyplane1234 wrote:
The reason they claim it is not a "point-to-point" plane is because Paris is still a hub. A more accurate term would be "hub-to-point."


Umm...when did CDG become a hub for HU? (HU is the main carrier flying all these P-P routes on 787). It's hard to argue that CKG, SZX, and XIY are hubs for HU, either. At best they're focus cities (HU only have one true international hub anyway and that's PEK).
 
crazyplane1234
Posts: 89
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:10 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
crazyplane1234 wrote:
The reason they claim it is not a "point-to-point" plane is because Paris is still a hub. A more accurate term would be "hub-to-point."


Umm...when did CDG become a hub for HU? (HU is the main carrier flying all these P-P routes on 787). It's hard to argue that CKG, SZX, and XIY are hubs for HU, either. At best they're focus cities (HU only have one true international hub anyway and that's PEK).


Does it count as point-to-point if you fly to someone else's hub?
 
workhorse
Posts: 834
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:41 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...when did CDG become a hub for HU? (HU is the main carrier flying all these P-P routes on 787). It's hard to argue that CKG, SZX, and XIY are hubs for HU, either. At best they're focus cities (HU only have one true international hub anyway and that's PEK).


Well, I would respectfully disagree with this one. I think XIY is a hub for HU too.

It all boils down to what we call "hub". For me, a hub is an airport where the airline routinely makes its passengers connect from one flight to another on the same ticket, without the need to re-check in and without the need to collect luggage (unless necessary for custom inspection). XIY definitely fits the description for HU. CDG, of course, does not.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:50 pm

workhorse wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...when did CDG become a hub for HU? (HU is the main carrier flying all these P-P routes on 787). It's hard to argue that CKG, SZX, and XIY are hubs for HU, either. At best they're focus cities (HU only have one true international hub anyway and that's PEK).


Well, I would respectfully disagree with this one. I think XIY is a hub for HU too.

It all boils down to what we call "hub". For me, a hub is an airport where the airline routinely makes its passengers connect from one flight to another on the same ticket, without the need to re-check in and without the need to collect luggage (unless necessary for custom inspection). XIY definitely fits the description for HU. CDG, of course, does not.


To be really fair, HU domestic network (Actually CZ/CA/MU also) contains a tons of P2P flights, making it possible for connecting in various airports even though some of them are not necessarily hub.

Of course, it can be argued that with One Route One Carrier, HU doesn't really have a choice but to operate quasi P-P long-haul routes if they want to fly to LON or PAR, so it may not be just b/c of 787.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Cunard wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Well it's about time. The chinese money is pouring to Paris instead of London.


And do you have any particular reason as to why you think that it's about time that Chinese money is pouring to Paris instead of London?

Walking through the streets of central London which I do every week it's like as if it's a secondary Chinese city, they are there in huge amounts spending their money I can assure you with spending at the luxury stores at an all time high and buying up property at every opportunity inflating the prices of new builds throughout the city so much so that they are far beyond the reach of the indigenous Londoner.

Paris has always been a popular destination for the Chinese as has London but Paris doesn't have a ''China Town'' like London has, walking through the streets you'd be forgiven in thinking you were actually in a Chinese city, if you haven't yet visited I recommend that you do at some point as it might well enlighten you.

There are direct flights from Jakarta to LHR if your interested in visiting the great capital city of London and even Paris can't claim that honour ;-)


Well, the fact that currently the possibility of hard-brexit started to look more plausible, it make sense for many Major cities in mainland Europe to start attracting more chinese investors to their own cities.
Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Madrid, Barcelona, Dublin, etc.
It's only logical. And I'm pretty sure the French Government won't mind the extra help.

And if you guys think for a second that foreign investors are the only one hiking up the property taxes for the "Indigenous residence of said city" (Hello Native Americans and Aboriginals Australians!)
Well, look no further to other countries that doesn't allow foreigners to purchase property like Indonesia (the capital city Jakarta), the price still goes up every year even though the locals are the one buying it up.

Sidenote, 13 arrondissement is the answer for your question. Not as big as the one in London or fresco.
Also, no, Jakarta to London is dreadful since GA can't compete efficiently on the market. I know this as someone who lived back and forth between Jakarta.
 
Cunard
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:24 pm

It's San Francisco and if your going to refer to it as ''Fresco'' your be aware that its actually ''Frisco''.

You must also be fully aware that those that live in San Francisco do not refer to the city as Frisco in fact they totally despise the term and it's tended to be used by those who don't actually live in the city especially tourists.

The prices of property are obviously going up year by year in Jakarta as Indonesia being an emerging economy and the country and more importantly the capital is reaping the benefits of that as property prices are naturally going to rise as the populations confidence and personal incomes increase, that's how economies grow.

13 arrondissement has already been quoted by myself and several other posters so your rather late, no one had posed a question regarding that I don't see why you need to think that it was needed as an answer!

The use of the term indigenous is an appropriate term and it can apply to citizens of a city such as London or Paris as much as it can describe Aboriginal Australians or Native Americans or even Pribumi as in Native Indonesians ;-)

I wasn't suggesting that GA can't compete efficiently on the Jakarta to London market I was suggesting that you visit London and I was just reminding you that you can take the direct route from GA, it was meant as a slightly sarcastic comment.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:29 am

I believe many of the arrivals to Paris from SE Asia were of Chinese ancestry (Viet Hoa and Cambodian chinese), so they are still ethnic Chinese.

Cunard wrote:
WPvsMW

Despite it's status as Paris ''China Town'' the neighborhood is significantly of Cambodian, Laotian and Vietnamese origin.

The Paris China Town is as your aware situated in the southeast of the 13th Arrondessement in an area that contains many high-rise apartment buildings and is the largest commercial and cultural centre for the Asian community in Paris.

The area surrounding the Paris China Town is Europes largest by population only with approximately 50,000 inhabitants most from Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam it was because of this that the area was originally called the ''Vietnamese Quarter''.
 
workhorse
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:42 pm

jcancel wrote:
I believe many of the arrivals to Paris from SE Asia were of Chinese ancestry (Viet Hoa and Cambodian chinese), so they are still ethnic Chinese.


That's right. Not the majority, but a good part. The reason is that in pre-war and pre-revolution Vietnam, Laos and especially Cambodia, the ethnic Chinese constituted a rather wealthy group of business owners, so as "capitalists" and "foreigners" at the same time, they were a prime target for the Khmers Rouges, Viet Cong etc.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:18 pm

Cunard wrote:
It's San Francisco and if your going to refer to it as ''Fresco'' your be aware that its actually ''Frisco''.

You must also be fully aware that those that live in San Francisco do not refer to the city as Frisco in fact they totally despise the term and it's tended to be used by those who don't actually live in the city especially tourists.

The prices of property are obviously going up year by year in Jakarta as Indonesia being an emerging economy and the country and more importantly the capital is reaping the benefits of that as property prices are naturally going to rise as the populations confidence and personal incomes increase, that's how economies grow.

13 arrondissement has already been quoted by myself and several other posters so your rather late, no one had posed a question regarding that I don't see why you need to think that it was needed as an answer!

The use of the term indigenous is an appropriate term and it can apply to citizens of a city such as London or Paris as much as it can describe Aboriginal Australians or Native Americans or even Pribumi as in Native Indonesians ;-)

I wasn't suggesting that GA can't compete efficiently on the Jakarta to London market I was suggesting that you visit London and I was just reminding you that you can take the direct route from GA, it was meant as a slightly sarcastic comment.


Oops, I'm thinking about food, sorry about that.

Anyway, Price of property are obviously going up by year in London or Paris as the economy of said country or economy of said city is in increase too. Foreign investment might help increase the bubble, but honestly, the price of property here in Jakarta is soo high, it feels like there's actually lots of foreigners buying up the property, even though they're not.

Also, the indigenous thing, that's the joke, the native americans and stuff....

Anyway, back to the main topic. The thing is, many cities in mainland Europe. Especially major one like Paris would defo welcome this move. And the corrupt politicians or rich business people probably lobbying it so they could find another place to transfer their money (can't really blame them with the situation in China).

We would probably see the same thing happen when other countries like India started to get richer and richer. Many flights from secondary cities in India would suddenly have better connectivity to major cities in Europe or NA.

And the thing with the 13 arrondissement. Let's look at it in a different way. Naturally, the non-rich Chinese mainlanders who migrated to work in Paris would probably lived and build their community around these areas. It's only logical, cause it's easier.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:07 pm

Zoedyn wrote:

If approved, the services would elevate Paris as THE European gateway to China


Paris is already THE European (excluding Russia) gateway to China with 100 weekly departing flights this summer, around 15 more than #2 London.

On a side note, SE (XL airways France) recently anounced and change in their strategy and that they would now focus on flight to secondary chinese markets.

I wonder if they'd launch a flight to Wenzhou as there are over 400 000 Wenzhounese in France, most of them in the Paris area. Sounds crazy to me that this flight does not exist yet.

MU flies from Wenzhou to Rome as there are also about 350 000 Whenzhounese in Italy.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3067
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:14 am

 
jcancel
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:35 am

I believe a lot of the SE Asians who came were ethnic Chinese

Cunard wrote:
WPvsMW
Despite it's status as Paris ''China Town'' the neighborhood is significantly of Cambodian, Laotian and Vietnamese origin.

The Paris China Town is as your aware situated in the southeast of the 13th Arrondessement in an area that contains many high-rise apartment buildings and is the largest commercial and cultural centre for the Asian community in Paris.

The area surrounding the Paris China Town is Europes largest by population only with approximately 50,000 inhabitants most from Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam it was because of this that the area was originally called the ''Vietnamese Quarter''.
 
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Zoedyn
Topic Author
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:50 am

Not just secondary city connectivity spike now

Per a CAAC filing released just days ago, Air China is planning to introduce a 3rd daily flight on PEK-PAR from March 2020, which I believe is clearly a fightback in response to China Eastern's reported PAR flights flown from PKX later this year

So, Louvre is bound to be ever more crowded with hordes of Chinese visitors that keep coming on Chinese metals
 
ewt340
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:00 pm

I really want to see which city would spring into number 1 after the no-deal brexit, this would be extremely interesting.

Seems like Paris would be the new "gateway" for many Chinese.
 
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Zoedyn
Topic Author
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:23 pm

http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/TZTG/2 ... 745359.pdf

Paris is sure to continue its strong momentum of Chinese connectivity growth in 2019/2020


Per CAAC filing today Mar 13, Chinese carriers are proposing to CAAC for route authority to the following new/additional flights

MU/CZ: PKX-PAR, 7x weekly

CA: PEK-PAR, 7x weekly

MU/CA: PVG-PAR (CA: 3x weekly; MU: 7x weekly)

CZ: CAN-PAR, 7x weekly


MU's proposed Paris routes for secondary Chinese cities:

Nanchang/KHN-PAR, 3x weekly

Wenzhou/WNZ-PAR, 3 weekly

NKG-PAR, 4x weekly


Additionally, there is Shanghai Airlines' 4x weekly PVG-Nice/NCE


Image
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:37 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/TZTG/201903/P020190313565047745359.pdf

Paris is sure to continue its strong momentum of Chinese connectivity growth in 2019/2020


Per CAAC filing today Mar 13, Chinese carriers are proposing to CAAC for route authority to the following new/additional flights

MU/CZ: PKX-PAR, 7x weekly

CA: PEK-PAR, 7x weekly

MU/CA: PVG-PAR (CA: 3x weekly; MU: 7x weekly)

CZ: CAN-PAR, 7x weekly


MU's proposed Paris routes for secondary Chinese cities:

Nanchang/KHN-PAR, 3x weekly

Wenzhou/WNZ-PAR, 3 weekly

NKG-PAR, 4x weekly


Additionally, there is Shanghai Airlines' 4x weekly PVG-Nice/NCE


Image


How should we see the Shanghai-Nice route? Is there any large sum of demand out there or is that a decision that just jumped into mind?
 
Thibault973
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:02 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
B1168 wrote:
http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/TZTG/201812/P020181221530051604356.pdf

Latest update from CAAC. This is a scoring file for newly applied flights.
TAO-CDG:65.66
WUH-CDG:57.97
KWE-CDG:34.90

Laughs in Spanish.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Seriously zero surprises here, though. I mean, KWE can't even sustain daily flights to major SE Asia airports (BKK, KUL, and zero flights to SIN) despite its location in SW China.

.


So out of the three, it's the odd one out, KWE-CDG that's actually launching ;)

Any news on TAO-CDG and WUh-CDG on CZ ?
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:18 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
B1168 wrote:
http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/TZTG/201812/P020181221530051604356.pdf

Latest update from CAAC. This is a scoring file for newly applied flights.
TAO-CDG:65.66
WUH-CDG:57.97
KWE-CDG:34.90

Laughs in Spanish.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Seriously zero surprises here, though. I mean, KWE can't even sustain daily flights to major SE Asia airports (BKK, KUL, and zero flights to SIN) despite its location in SW China.

.


So out of the three, it's the odd one out, KWE-CDG that's actually launching ;)

Any news on TAO-CDG and WUh-CDG on CZ ?


Not yet. But since TAO already have flights to FRA and LHR, and AF has WUH-CDG(even in 77E), I will not be surprised that at least one of them get forfeited.
 
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Zoedyn
Topic Author
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Re: Paris saw sudden spike in connectivity with secondary cities in China

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:09 pm

MU opened TAO-CDG

China Eastern inaugurated Qingdao-Paris service yesterday on June 19.
The flights are 3 times a week using A330 on Tue, Thu, Sat.

Qingdao is a charming coastal city in eastern China that has in recent years seen quite a few intercontinental longhaul services to destinations in Oceania, North America and Europe, eg, FRA, SYD, SEA, YVR, LAX, MEL, LHR, SVO

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