User avatar
seahawks7757
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:43 pm

unmlobo wrote:
It's a shame if there are destinations cut from DAL, I always consider AS when I am flying to the west coast. I haven't flown them since the switch to regional jets back in November, if the frequencies were there I would consider status matching from WN, especially if they were at least occasional mainline back in the rotation (even if only to PDX).



With the exception of the A321NEO. I’d say the 175’s are the nicest/most comfortable planes in the AS fleet right now. It’s not like the CRJ.
 
sxf24
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:18 am

enilria wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
enilria wrote:
I can only guess that there are fewer and fewer things from VX so they feel a need to hold on/make this work to justify the merger (?).

I think the DAL airport as a geographic location is valuable and they are more worried about the competition with AA than WN. That doesn't mean it will work.


Airports in the USA are owned by the government with few exceptions. The land is owned by the government. The terminals in nearly every case, that sits on government land, are owned by the government. So, yes I do realize they do not "own" the gates. Do you realize that pretty much no gate in the whole of the U.S. is "owned" by an airline? I guess not. That does not stop a leasehold interest from being sold as has happened 1000s of times in the history of U.S. airline aviation. So if such a thing exists, link to the lease terms that say that Alaska may not sell a leasehold or sublet on those gates. To my knowledge nobody has ever posted any proof that is the case, although it has come up over and over again. At best I was told that DOT/DOJ would "frown upon it" if it occurred within a couple of years of the 2014 transaction and have to review a transfer. BUT you seem to have secret info that Alaska cannot profit from the sublet or sale of a leasehold interest. Please post proof of this.


AS doesn’t even have a lease on the gates - it’s a sublease from AA.

It's a forced sub-lease. Again, I'll repeat. Sub-lease or not. Show me where they do not have the right to transfer the sub-lease or sub-sub-lease to another party for money. You could argue they already are doing that with Skywest, although most airports don't consider that a sub-lease. It is also not uncommon for a sub-lessor to then grant another carrier to use the gate for money if the sub-lease is exclusive.


Generally subleases do not permit further sublease, particularly at rates above the sublease. Therefore, it is not possible for AS to financially enrich themselves by selling/subleasing/transferring the gates to DL or another airline.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Topic Author
Posts: 15370
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:19 am

sxf24 wrote:
Generally subleases do not permit further sublease, particularly at rates above the sublease. Therefore, it is not possible for AS to financially enrich themselves by selling/subleasing/transferring the gates to DL or another airline.


You really ought to re-read this; based on only a generalization you’re prepared to make a definitive statement of fact?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
altbg
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:10 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:39 am

seahawks7757 wrote:
With the exception of the A321NEO. I’d say the 175’s are the nicest/most comfortable planes in the AS fleet right now. It’s not like the CRJ.


Agreed. The E175 is my favorite RJ if you can even call it that. I'm very sad to see SJC-DAL go as that is one route I fly a couple of times a year. I guess it's a good thing I didn't book a flight over Thanksgiving two weeks ago.
 
sxf24
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:54 am

EA CO AS wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
Generally subleases do not permit further sublease, particularly at rates above the sublease. Therefore, it is not possible for AS to financially enrich themselves by selling/subleasing/transferring the gates to DL or another airline.


You really ought to re-read this; based on only a generalization you’re prepared to make a definitive statement of fact?


Yes. I’ve read the stupid lease.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:12 am

altbg wrote:
seahawks7757 wrote:
With the exception of the A321NEO. I’d say the 175’s are the nicest/most comfortable planes in the AS fleet right now. It’s not like the CRJ.


Agreed. The E175 is my favorite RJ if you can even call it that. I'm very sad to see SJC-DAL go as that is one route I fly a couple of times a year. I guess it's a good thing I didn't book a flight over Thanksgiving two weeks ago.


How were the loads on the flights?
 
altbg
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:10 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:54 am

AirFiero wrote:
How were the loads on the flights?


I'd say almost full if not completely full but I'm sure that's not a good indicator.

Fares were always much lower than AA on SJC-DFW, or even WN. So perhaps they didn't make much money on that route - if any.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1063
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:01 am

Hopefully this doesn’t continue to prove that AS is just retrenching to SEA and PDX. If they really cut SAN and SJC then it’s going to be harder to take AS seriously for loyal fliers in those two metros. I get that it’s only Dallas but that would be a huge loss.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:26 am

There it is! It is quite clear Alaska is cutting all California flying. They’re probably going to go bankrupt for not operating these routes. This loss is just too much.

lol
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:59 am

phxa340 wrote:
Hopefully this doesn’t continue to prove that AS is just retrenching to SEA and PDX. If they really cut SAN and SJC then it’s going to be harder to take AS seriously for loyal fliers in those two metros. I get that it’s only Dallas but that would be a huge loss.

I agree completely. These 2 CA cities are not just outstations of AS; they are focus cities and in CA each with around 50 daily departures. AS is hopefully growing cores of frequent flyers and corporate travelers in both cities who don't want to fly WN. Dropping this route (and others) from focus cities seems like a poor way to build a corporate base.

I don't necessarily view this as the beginning of the end of focus ops at the largest non-hub cities on AS's network but it's a trend that I sure don't like to see. I admit that I don't know what AS has in mind and what might happen next in their network but this move is certainly worrisome to me.

bb
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:47 pm

SANFan wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Hopefully this doesn’t continue to prove that AS is just retrenching to SEA and PDX. If they really cut SAN and SJC then it’s going to be harder to take AS seriously for loyal fliers in those two metros. I get that it’s only Dallas but that would be a huge loss.

I agree completely. These 2 CA cities are not just outstations of AS; they are focus cities and in CA each with around 50 daily departures. AS is hopefully growing cores of frequent flyers and corporate travelers in both cities who don't want to fly WN. Dropping this route (and others) from focus cities seems like a poor way to build a corporate base.

I don't necessarily view this as the beginning of the end of focus ops at the largest non-hub cities on AS's network but it's a trend that I sure don't like to see. I admit that I don't know what AS has in mind and what might happen next in their network but this move is certainly worrisome to me.

bb


How many Max does AS have, and what percentage is that of their fleet (including their regional partners)? Before we overreact to these cuts, I think the MAX situation should be considered. The news today is that a new issue has come up with the Max, and that they will remain grounded until at least September. This *has* to have an impact on AS and its plans.

U.S. regulator cites new flaw on grounded Boeing 737 MAX
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclu ... spartanntp
 
737max8
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:57 pm

I don't care if they need planes elsewhere to cover MAX flying, you still pick the low performers to get rid of to reallocate.

I will just be sad there's not as many AS flights to save your butt nonreving out of DAL (in first class usually no less) while WN is full.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
User avatar
jbpdx
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:03 pm

AirFiero wrote:

How many Max does AS have, and what percentage is that of their fleet (including their regional partners)? Before we overreact to these cuts, I think the MAX situation should be considered. The news today is that a new issue has come up with the Max, and that they will remain grounded until at least September. This *has* to have an impact on AS and its plans.

U.S. regulator cites new flaw on grounded Boeing 737 MAX
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclu ... spartanntp



Alaska doesn’t have any MAX. They have 32 on order.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:49 pm

SANFan wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Ummmm, AS never claimed to be interested in DAL-SJC/SAN at the time of the sale as VX never flew those routes. At 13 flights a day, they are still flying as many flights a day from DAL as VX did at the time of the sale.

Ummmmm, then why did they start flying between DAL and their 2 focus cities? It's nice to learn that they weren't really interested in the 2 routes. What difference does it make what Virgin flew from Love Field -- they didn't fly to SEA or PDX either but they did fly to the east coast. And AUS.

That's fine. WN does seem interested in serving SAN and SJC -- to DAL and lots of other places. Perhaps AS's new Network Planners will just scrap the whole 'focus city' idea and get back to their comfort zone -- SEA to everywhere, along with DL. I hope it works out well for them...

bb


You really should re-read what I wrote and not just laser in on the SAN part and totally block out everything else. What I said is that AS did not say they were interested in the SAN/SJC-DAL routes at the time of the sale because those routes didn't even exist as part of the Virgin network at the time. I was not making a statement about what they did or didn't do later. The poster to whom I was replying was making a statement that AS claimed to be interested in those routes as part of the larger VX network - if I was reading their post correctly. Since they weren't part of the larger VX network at that time, I'm simply saying that wasn't true. With all respect, you really should dial it down a notch with respect to AS and SAN. AS has expanded in a HUGE way at SAN, to become the second largest carrier there. They've upgauged and added service to SAN pretty much continually, while the larger cities of LAX and SFO have remained fairly stagnant for AS. The loss of once daily service on a EMJ to DAL is not indicative of any change in their commitment to the SAN market. I'm sure you'll see continued expansion at SAN by AS as the years go on. It's become an important market for AS.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1063
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:19 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
SANFan wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Ummmm, AS never claimed to be interested in DAL-SJC/SAN at the time of the sale as VX never flew those routes. At 13 flights a day, they are still flying as many flights a day from DAL as VX did at the time of the sale.

Ummmmm, then why did they start flying between DAL and their 2 focus cities? It's nice to learn that they weren't really interested in the 2 routes. What difference does it make what Virgin flew from Love Field -- they didn't fly to SEA or PDX either but they did fly to the east coast. And AUS.

That's fine. WN does seem interested in serving SAN and SJC -- to DAL and lots of other places. Perhaps AS's new Network Planners will just scrap the whole 'focus city' idea and get back to their comfort zone -- SEA to everywhere, along with DL. I hope it works out well for them...

bb


You really should re-read what I wrote and not just laser in on the SAN part and totally block out everything else. What I said is that AS did not say they were interested in the SAN/SJC-DAL routes at the time of the sale because those routes didn't even exist as part of the Virgin network at the time. I was not making a statement about what they did or didn't do later. The poster to whom I was replying was making a statement that AS claimed to be interested in those routes as part of the larger VX network - if I was reading their post correctly. Since they weren't part of the larger VX network at that time, I'm simply saying that wasn't true. With all respect, you really should dial it down a notch with respect to AS and SAN. AS has expanded in a HUGE way at SAN, to become the second largest carrier there. They've upgauged and added service to SAN pretty much continually, while the larger cities of LAX and SFO have remained fairly stagnant for AS. The loss of once daily service on a EMJ to DAL is not indicative of any change in their commitment to the SAN market. I'm sure you'll see continued expansion at SAN by AS as the years go on. It's become an important market for AS.


Just curious and not attacking you but by market share AS is actually 5th at San Diego, are you going by number of flights ?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1276
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:21 am

jbpdx wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

How many Max does AS have, and what percentage is that of their fleet (including their regional partners)? Before we overreact to these cuts, I think the MAX situation should be considered. The news today is that a new issue has come up with the Max, and that they will remain grounded until at least September. This *has* to have an impact on AS and its plans.

U.S. regulator cites new flaw on grounded Boeing 737 MAX
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclu ... spartanntp



Alaska doesn’t have any MAX. They have 32 on order.


Ah ok, so no cuts due to the Max at AS. Thanks.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:26 pm

phxa340 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
AS has expanded in a HUGE way at SAN, to become the second largest carrier there.

Just curious and not attacking you but by market share AS is actually 5th at San Diego, are you going by number of flights ?


'Flyer is totally correct about the growth at SAN by AS and their rank at the airport.

I have absolutely no idea how to post an image but if you follow this link to the SAN.org Air Traffic Report for May 2019
https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Brin ... &TabId=403
and scroll to page 2 you'll see a pie chart showing "May 2019 Airline Market Share" with WN leading SAN at 38.0% and AS second with 14.3%. The remaining airlines are shown as well. (BTW, you can look at earlier Reports and see that AS has been 2nd at SAN for all of 2019 and long time before that!)

And FYI, AS does rank 2nd at SAN in # of departures as well: in June they are at 53 departures to 31 destinations, 2nd only to WN's 121 departures to 34 destinations. AS should continue to rank 2nd in the fall when the departures are reduced and the number of destinations, I assume, will fall to 29 with the loss of service to both BWI and DAL...

Out of curiosity PHX', where did you see that AS is ranked 5th in market share at SAN? I'd bet that's rather old data.

bb.
 
phxa340
Posts: 1063
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:37 pm

SANFan wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
AS has expanded in a HUGE way at SAN, to become the second largest carrier there.

Just curious and not attacking you but by market share AS is actually 5th at San Diego, are you going by number of flights ?


'Flyer is totally correct about the growth at SAN by AS and their rank at the airport.

I have absolutely no idea how to post an image but if you follow this link to the SAN.org Air Traffic Report for May 2019
https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Brin ... &TabId=403
and scroll to page 2 you'll see a pie chart showing "May 2019 Airline Market Share" with WN leading SAN at 38.0% and AS second with 14.3%. The remaining airlines are shown as well. (BTW, you can look at earlier Reports and see that AS has been 2nd at SAN for all of 2019 and long time before that!)

And FYI, AS does rank 2nd at SAN in # of departures as well: in June they are at 53 departures to 31 destinations, 2nd only to WN's 121 departures to 34 destinations. AS should continue to rank 2nd in the fall when the departures are reduced and the number of destinations, I assume, will fall to 29 with the loss of service to both BWI and DAL...

Out of curiosity PHX', where did you see that AS is ranked 5th in market share at SAN? I'd bet that's rather old data.

bb.


Arg , should have never trusted it but Wikipedia for SAN. Thanks for the info, this is great, thank you !
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:09 pm

SANFan wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
AS has expanded in a HUGE way at SAN, to become the second largest carrier there.

Just curious and not attacking you but by market share AS is actually 5th at San Diego, are you going by number of flights ?


'Flyer is totally correct about the growth at SAN by AS and their rank at the airport.

I have absolutely no idea how to post an image but if you follow this link to the SAN.org Air Traffic Report for May 2019
https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Brin ... &TabId=403
and scroll to page 2 you'll see a pie chart showing "May 2019 Airline Market Share" with WN leading SAN at 38.0% and AS second with 14.3%. The remaining airlines are shown as well. (BTW, you can look at earlier Reports and see that AS has been 2nd at SAN for all of 2019 and long time before that!)

And FYI, AS does rank 2nd at SAN in # of departures as well: in June they are at 53 departures to 31 destinations, 2nd only to WN's 121 departures to 34 destinations. AS should continue to rank 2nd in the fall when the departures are reduced and the number of destinations, I assume, will fall to 29 with the loss of service to both BWI and DAL...

Out of curiosity PHX', where did you see that AS is ranked 5th in market share at SAN? I'd bet that's rather old data.

bb.


It's probably little consolation to the loss of a destination for AS at SAN but, unless it changes, I noticed that MSP and AUS both stay mainline through the winter. I was under the impression that the upgauge to mainline was only for the summer but it's sticking - so that's a good thing. I also wouldn't be surprised to see more new destinations at SAN and increased frequencies once AS begins to ramp up their growth again. SAN is a very important market for AS and I think the growth there will continue.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:12 pm

AirFiero wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

How many Max does AS have, and what percentage is that of their fleet (including their regional partners)? Before we overreact to these cuts, I think the MAX situation should be considered. The news today is that a new issue has come up with the Max, and that they will remain grounded until at least September. This *has* to have an impact on AS and its plans.

U.S. regulator cites new flaw on grounded Boeing 737 MAX
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclu ... spartanntp



Alaska doesn’t have any MAX. They have 32 on order.


Ah ok, so no cuts due to the Max at AS. Thanks.


I don't know if there have been any cuts due to the Max. Although there are none on the property as yet, they were scheduled to come online in June and they were already on the schedule - so it is possible that there are cuts related to the Max. There were supposed to be 3 of them in the fleet by the end of 2019 - not sure what's going on now.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:32 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
It's probably little consolation to the loss of a destination for AS at SAN but, unless it changes, I noticed that MSP and AUS both stay mainline through the winter. I was under the impression that the upgauge to mainline was only for the summer but it's sticking - so that's a good thing. I also wouldn't be surprised to see more new destinations at SAN and increased frequencies once AS begins to ramp up their growth again. SAN is a very important market for AS and I think the growth there will continue.

Thanks for the positive insight 'Flyer..

The loss of one destination is bad enough but two is, well, twice as bad! SAN-BWI is uncertain but it appears gone for October and I'm assuming that when the Nov 5 skeds are updated/released, that route to DC will stay gone for at least a while.

SAN has a history with AS of very few dropped routes over the years so since I learned about both lost routes within a 2-week period I was temporarily quite bothered.

Also, MCI and STL were slated for mainline upgrades in late August but those sere reversed and I'd bet a buck that it was due to the MAX issues. There have to be some network effects -- near-term anyway -- for AS due the uncertainly of all those new mainline aircraft that were due to start arriving in-house in July...

bb
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:40 am

SANFan wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
It's probably little consolation to the loss of a destination for AS at SAN but, unless it changes, I noticed that MSP and AUS both stay mainline through the winter. I was under the impression that the upgauge to mainline was only for the summer but it's sticking - so that's a good thing. I also wouldn't be surprised to see more new destinations at SAN and increased frequencies once AS begins to ramp up their growth again. SAN is a very important market for AS and I think the growth there will continue.

Thanks for the positive insight 'Flyer..

The loss of one destination is bad enough but two is, well, twice as bad! SAN-BWI is uncertain but it appears gone for October and I'm assuming that when the Nov 5 skeds are updated/released, that route to DC will stay gone for at least a while.

SAN has a history with AS of very few dropped routes over the years so since I learned about both lost routes within a 2-week period I was temporarily quite bothered.

Also, MCI and STL were slated for mainline upgrades in late August but those sere reversed and I'd bet a buck that it was due to the MAX issues. There have to be some network effects -- near-term anyway -- for AS due the uncertainly of all those new mainline aircraft that were due to start arriving in-house in July...

bb


Anything can change but I still see SAN-BWI on the schedules after October. Hopefully it stays. I think the STL/MCI move up to mainline equipment was super short lived. They reversed course on that really quickly. Honestly, I'm glad to see them stick around and if they need a little more time on the E175 to help them mature a bit then I say, take that time... I want those routes to stay. I'm really surprised OMA-SAN has stuck around, to be honest, but good for SAN... and OMA.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:51 am

phxa340 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
phxa340 wrote:

Just curious and not attacking you but by market share AS is actually 5th at San Diego, are you going by number of flights ?


'Flyer is totally correct about the growth at SAN by AS and their rank at the airport.

I have absolutely no idea how to post an image but if you follow this link to the SAN.org Air Traffic Report for May 2019
https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Brin ... &TabId=403
and scroll to page 2 you'll see a pie chart showing "May 2019 Airline Market Share" with WN leading SAN at 38.0% and AS second with 14.3%. The remaining airlines are shown as well. (BTW, you can look at earlier Reports and see that AS has been 2nd at SAN for all of 2019 and long time before that!)

And FYI, AS does rank 2nd at SAN in # of departures as well: in June they are at 53 departures to 31 destinations, 2nd only to WN's 121 departures to 34 destinations. AS should continue to rank 2nd in the fall when the departures are reduced and the number of destinations, I assume, will fall to 29 with the loss of service to both BWI and DAL...

Out of curiosity PHX', where did you see that AS is ranked 5th in market share at SAN? I'd bet that's rather old data.

bb.


Arg , should have never trusted it but Wikipedia for SAN. Thanks for the info, this is great, thank you !


AS has been the second fiddle at SAN for many years, I can almost 100% assure you that AS does not wish to diminish it's presence there. It's been a great place o spread their wings from. AS is happy moving forward, but this VX merge, as should be expected, has changed the way AS does certain things. One of the things we are seeing, is less "unique" routes & more core flying.

We talked about the AS plans for 2019 & most people understood 2019 would not have the expansion that 2017 & 2018 saw. We were right y'all & the growth next year is modest, even with more E-175's coming on property. SEA will be defended at all costs, that is where they will find a way to co-exist & not compete in some markets.

DL has shown that with some regret, that they tried too many duplicate routes owned by AAG & in a few examples they plain lost & in others DL has made a dent in the market.

That said, with zero offense taken please. Not one of us should quote Wikipedia as anything but "possible" fact. After seeing on some 60 minutes type show on a major network, just one guy is responsible for about 1/3 of Wikipedia's content, you are not the only member being impaled upon their own remarks after a quick read on Wikipedia.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:20 pm

Over on the OAG thread this morning, there was some movement on the DAL question for AS.

According to that thread, SJC and SAN to DAL are indeed gone as of Nov 5. No surprise from me as per the recent discussion on this thread of the past few days.

What I find interesting is that apparently nothing has been filed yet in the SEA/PDX - DAL markets for Nov or later so those key markets, for now, remain a mystery.

Finally, LA and SF to DAL are showing reduced service in the markets from Nov onward, looking like from 4 to 3 daily r/t.

What's apparent is that AS is reducing service at Love Field as of November; to what extent is still unclear.

Stay tuned?

bb
 
alfa164
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:28 pm

SANFan wrote:
Over on the OAG thread this morning, there was some movement on the DAL question for AS. According to that thread, SJC and SAN to DAL are indeed gone as of Nov 5. No surprise from me as per the recent discussion on this thread of the past few days. What I find interesting is that apparently nothing has been filed yet in the SEA/PDX - DAL markets for Nov or later so those key markets, for now, remain a mystery.

Finally, LA and SF to DAL are showing reduced service in the markets from Nov onward, looking like from 4 to 3 daily r/t. What's apparent is that AS is reducing service at Love Field as of November; to what extent is still unclear. Stay tuned?
bb


Maybe it is time to change the title of the thread to read: "AS claimed it would expand its presence at DAL but it was all a lie"

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:39 pm

SANFan wrote:
Over on the OAG thread this morning, there was some movement on the DAL question for AS.

According to that thread, SJC and SAN to DAL are indeed gone as of Nov 5. No surprise from me as per the recent discussion on this thread of the past few days.
What I find interesting is that apparently nothing has been filed yet in the SEA/PDX - DAL markets for Nov or later so those key markets, for now, remain a mystery.
Finally, LA and SF to DAL are showing reduced service in the markets from Nov onward, looking like from 4 to 3 daily r/t.

What's apparent is that AS is reducing service at Love Field as of November; to what extent is still unclear.
bb

I have a correction to make. There were no changes listed on the OAG thread to SEA/PDX to DAL frequencies after October but that probably simply means that what was already published in those markets has not changed. Therefore, I revise my statement by saying that it appears SEA will have 4x daily r/t in the market and PDX 3x daily from November onward.

Bottom line, however, remains the same. With those 2 markets remaining where they were, and SAN and SJC gone -- that's 5 daily r/t -- and both SFO and LAX down by 1 r/t each, it looks like DAL will lose ~7 daily AS r/t as of Nov. And I don't for a minute believe that to be seasonal reductions.

It sure does sound like AS will be able do their business at Love Field out of 1 gate starting this fall... Temporary or permanent? That's the question.

bb
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:50 pm

I have WN suspicion regarding AS’s motivations and possibly some sort of follow through agreement regarding another airport similar to the DFW DAL situation.

Love Field is Southwest turf. A hard place for other airlines to get a toe hold into.

Didn’t Continental pre United even pull out of DAL if I remember correctly? We have seen other legacies retreat to strictly hub service from a competitors fortress hub, so I am sensing this may be the case with AS here too, among other gentleman’s agreements.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5028
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:09 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
This is being done strategically due to ongoing litigation in Dallas that is threatening the likelihood of being able to use both gates, so rather than having to possibly cancel and reschedule guests later - and reduce staffing levels after ramping them up - the decision was made to be proactive in the face of this uncertainty and adjust the schedules now, just in case.

OK, I've come full circle on this thread and I apologize for jumping off in many ranting directions (mostly involving SAN's service) but since the dust has settled a bit, and the OAG thread has yielding a bit more evidence regarding post-November service levels by AS at DAL, it seems that EA CO AS, as usual, needs to be listened to.

As I've mentioned up-thread very recently, AS seems to be trimming 7 flights from their offerings at Love Field as of November. It appears 13 flights remain. Whether that's one gate's worth of flying or not, it is a substantial cut of ~1/3 of their flights.

According to the above-noted post, the question seems to be if that's all permanent or temporary, pending whatever. I guess we wait and see what happens -- nothing new about that strategy here on A.net, or elsewhere....

At least I feel like I understand the whole mess better. Maybe a few other folks see things more clearly as well?

bb
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1471
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: AS expands presence at DAL

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:22 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I have WN suspicion regarding AS’s motivations and possibly some sort of follow through agreement regarding another airport similar to the DFW DAL situation.

Love Field is Southwest turf. A hard place for other airlines to get a toe hold into.

Didn’t Continental pre United even pull out of DAL if I remember correctly? We have seen other legacies retreat to strictly hub service from a competitors fortress hub, so I am sensing this may be the case with AS here too, among other gentleman’s agreements.

It was post merger UA that pulled out of DAL and leased their gates to WN to help this big fight get started.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos