minilinde
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:07 am

Mortyman wrote:

The main reason why Norwegian has gotten so popular in Norway is that when SAS insisted on doing long haul from Denmark and Sweden, but not Norway, Norwegian made a point that they would start longhaul from Norway and more generally take up the competition with SAS. SAS basically had monopoly in Norway at the time and had forced many other airlines in Norway out of business thanks to government financial backing and favourability etc. At the time, the Norwegian and long haul part of SAS were the only parts of SAS that had a surpluss and the surpluss from the Norwegian part, payed for the debt in the Swedish and Danish parts of SAS. Needless to say, Norwegians in Norway got frustrated with this. SAS Norway made the most money, but Norway got little in return for it. Sweden had the main office, Denmark had the main hub, while the Norwegian part got less and less. No long haul, the technical facilties wich was the best got moved from Norway, Norwegians were forced to transfer through either Arlanda or Copenhagen especially when going longhaul etc etc. In the end the hatred toward SAS got so big, that when Norwegian announced that they would take up the competition and promised long haul from Norway, they got very popular.

Norwegian might have to let go of the long haul part and maybe close all together, but giving up the long haul. part is most likely the part that the ceo Bjørn Kjos wants to give up the least.

But Norway is still problematic for long haul operations.. and DY are not really proving it to be a commercial success.
SAS has a daily EWR and 1-2 weekly MIA, but other than that, ARN & CPH are still much better for SAS for long haul. Denmark and Sweden are are focused around the capitals, where as Norway is much more spread out, and other airlines have entered the market. Especially KLM is a hard competition for SK, as they have a much more intensive network out of Amsterdam, then SK will ever have out of any hub.

Christmas greetings from Copenhagen
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:03 am

Statement from Norwegian this morning:

Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (“the Company”) would like to give the financial market a year-end update. To meet the competitive environment in a period with seasonally lower demand in Europe, the Company has made several changes to its route portfolio as well as adjusted its capacity. Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019.

In addition, the Company has launched an extensive cost savings program, #Focus2019, which will contribute to estimated savings of minimum NOK 2 billion in 2019. Six weeks into the program, we have already identified significant savings. The Company will update the market with results from #Focus2019 in connection with the announcement of the results for the first quarter of 2019.

As previously communicated, Norwegian’s long-haul operation has been disrupted by challenges with the Rolls-Royce engines on the Dreamliners. The Company has now reached an agreement with Rolls-Royce which will have a positive effect from the first quarter of 2019. The commercial terms of the agreement remain confidential.

The Company is pleased to announce that the financing for all aircraft deliveries for the first half of 2019 is secured. This also includes refinancing of one of the delivered Dreamliners, resulting in a positive liquidity effect of NOK 275 million in December 2018.

The process of divesting aircraft continues, and we experience significant interest in our existing fleet as well as future deliveries. The Company recently signed a letter of intent for the sale of two aircraft with delivery in the first quarter of 2019. The discussions about forming a joint venture for aircraft ownership also continues with full force.
 
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Faro
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:22 am

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
The Company is pleased to announce that the financing for all aircraft deliveries for the first half of 2019 is secured. This also includes refinancing of one of the delivered Dreamliners, resulting in a positive liquidity effect of NOK 275 million in December 2018.


This is good news for DY...its creditors have not lost confidence in the airline...or at least not yet...hope they pull through...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
787Driver
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:09 pm

Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.
 
THS214
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:14 pm

787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.
 
axiom
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:21 pm

THS214 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.
 
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AAR
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:27 pm

I wonder why NAS does not say how they predict a Hard Brexit almost ½ of the long haul fleet based in Gatwick, Danske Bank is one of the daily banks for Norwegian Air Shuttle ...

The statement from Norwegian Air Shuttle does not calm me in any way...
 
tommy1808
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:37 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
It is extremely hard for airline to die. If we look at Air Berlin they were flying in red for nearly 10 years before they went bankrupt. So Norwegian probably has more time than analysts actually expect. 787 is killing them, unfortunately. :cry:


Air Berlin survived that long because Ethiad poured money into them, for a while seemingly without limit, because they wanted to repeat Swissair's mistake with a crowbar.
Does DY have a suicidal investor too?

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
787Driver
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:45 pm

AAR wrote:
I wonder why NAS does not say how they predict a Hard Brexit almost ½ of the long haul fleet based in Gatwick, Danske Bank is one of the daily banks for Norwegian Air Shuttle ...

The statement from Norwegian Air Shuttle does not calm me in any way...


They recently moved 180 B787 pilots from Gatwick to Copenhagen and they are re-registering several aircraft.
Last edited by 787Driver on Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
THS214
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:46 pm

axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


No it doesn't. It's all about future. "Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019." What I wrote was a response for what I queted.
 
axiom
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:55 pm

THS214 wrote:
axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:

That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


No it doesn't. It's all about future. "Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019." What I wrote was a response for what I queted.


Yes, it does. The DY statement makes several forward-looking claims which are intended to address concerns about their current financial health (costs, debt, equity).
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:57 pm

axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


It's a vague description of planned improvements. It says nothing about current cash position nor does it cite the cost savings value of planned improvements.
 
a350lover
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:04 pm

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
To meet the competitive environment in a period with seasonally lower demand in Europe, the Company has made several changes to its route portfolio as well as adjusted its capacity. Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019.


Which changes? Can at least name one?
 
axiom
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:

That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


It's a vague description of planned improvements. It says nothing about current cash position nor does it cite the cost savings value of planned improvements.


Welcome to every forward looking financial statement ever. It's not a statutory filing.

Love the a.net armchair financial analysts.
 
axiom
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:20 pm

a350lover wrote:
LuxuryTravelled wrote:
To meet the competitive environment in a period with seasonally lower demand in Europe, the Company has made several changes to its route portfolio as well as adjusted its capacity. Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019.


Which changes? Can at least name one?


There is a thread about DY network changes (i.e. BCN).

I'm no DY defender, but I sure wish folks would do their homework before parsing words with pitchforks.
 
THS214
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:25 pm

axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:
axiom wrote:

What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


No it doesn't. It's all about future. "Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019." What I wrote was a response for what I queted.


Yes, it does. The DY statement makes several forward-looking claims which are intended to address concerns about their current financial health (costs, debt, equity).


You are right that they make forward-looking claims. My point is that it doesn't affect FY 2018.

Those claims include savings but also reducing capacity (reading between the lines). They don't say how much of the savings come from reducing capacity etc. We must wait at least Q1 to see how much we can trust this statement.

Devil is in the details. "Six weeks into the program, we have already identified significant savings." Without saying what those savings are it means nothing. They can save 2 billion NOK by reducing their operations by 2 billion NOK yet that doesn't change their results.
 
skystar767
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:46 pm

It’s sad reading all the negative things about DY on here. Why so many of you dislike DY? What did the airline and the brand do to any of you? I look at DY as the 747 of our time. DY made traveling cheaper for the average hard working European or American to travel. Before the 747 came out the price of a ticket was above the reach of the average person to take a plane ride. With DY your flying on brand new airplanes not old second hand charter airlines. so to the low lifes on here wishing for the closing of DY you should learn about free market and how the big US 3 and the big EU3 are ***** you over every time. That I phone or Mac your writing your dislike on for DY if it was not for cheap labor half of you could not afford that iPhone or Mac or what ever phone or computer your on now.
Last edited by skystar767 on Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RexBanner
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:50 pm

It’s because they’re selling their product below cost (and they undoubtedly are looking at their financials). In the process they’re undercutting not just the other airlines but the staff at those other airlines whose Terms and Conditions get benchmarked against Norwegian’s which are unrealistically low. Perpetuating the downward spiral for conditions in this industry.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:56 pm

This has been all over social media, it will have had an impact on consumer confidence and forward bookings, forcing them to sell below cost for longer than they had planned.
 
skystar767
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:02 pm

Who set market price? The CEO of the big airlines. They meet once a year in the USA or some other part of the world to set the price for the next time few years. This last meeting was In the Caribbean if am not mistaken. Listen DY is shaking up the market like southwest did. My friend market price are set by greedy people who are looking to screw you over every chance they can. Don’t buy in to the bs the big 6 are trying to feed you. In the end it’s all about the share holders and the top one % who smiles all the way to the bank
 
skystar767
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:09 pm

The reporter who wrote that article should be fired. This is what media and social media has come to. Reporters who don’t check or go to the source of the news to find out the truth. That is one of the reason Trump makes the news media a fool at every turn and call them FAKE NEWS. reporters need to stop reading face book or Twitter and go out and find out from the source if something is fake or real.
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:17 pm

skystar767 wrote:
The reporter who wrote that article should be fired. This is what media and social media has come to. Reporters who don’t check or go to the source of the news to find out the truth. That is one of the reason Trump makes the news media a fool at every turn and call them FAKE NEWS. reporters need to stop reading face book or Twitter and go out and find out from the source if something is fake or real.


So you have been to this meeting, or how did you find out? You need to go out and check your facts. Claiming illegal behavior can be a criminal charge in some jurisdictions btw.
 
Eikie
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:00 pm

RexBanner wrote:
It’s because they’re selling their product below cost (and they undoubtedly are looking at their financials). In the process they’re undercutting not just the other airlines but the staff at those other airlines whose Terms and Conditions get benchmarked against Norwegian’s which are unrealistically low. Perpetuating the downward spiral for conditions in this industry.

And don't forget the shady pratices with using foreign crew based in a country they don't fly from just to profit from tax deals.
While they are not the only one (or even the only industry), in my book, it still counts as not done and makes it harder for airlines paying taxes in the country they are based to honestly make a buck.
 
a350lover
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:05 pm

axiom wrote:
Which changes? Can at least name one?


There is a thread about DY network changes (i.e. BCN).

I'm no DY defender, but I sure wish folks would do their homework before parsing words with pitchforks.[/quote]

I couldn’t find that thread. Did you mean one about the cancellation of several short haul routes from BCN?
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:10 pm

Are they referring to the Scottish/Irish MAX routes to America? The cancellation of Gatwick - Singapore? Or the changes from OAK to SFO, and FLL to MIA?

Could also refer to reductions in short haul - notably Birmingham and Edinburgh, but also to other parts of Europe.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:11 pm

skystar767 wrote:
The reporter who wrote that article should be fired. This is what media and social media has come to. Reporters who don’t check or go to the source of the news to find out the truth. That is one of the reason Trump makes the news media a fool at every turn and call them FAKE NEWS. reporters need to stop reading face book or Twitter and go out and find out from the source if something is fake or real.


I wouldnt go as far as FAKE NEWS. However, to publish something like this on the back of one source is a tad risky.
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:20 pm

skystar767 wrote:
Who set market price? The CEO of the big airlines. They meet once a year in the USA or some other part of the world to set the price for the next time few years. This last meeting was In the Caribbean if am not mistaken. Listen DY is shaking up the market like southwest did. My friend market price are set by greedy people who are looking to screw you over every chance they can. Don’t buy in to the bs the big 6 are trying to feed you. In the end it’s all about the share holders and the top one % who smiles all the way to the bank


You are mistaken and please take some economics classes, you are embarrassing yourself.

Even a Keynesian would say you are completely off base.

And the price to fly on an inflation adjusted basis is still at historically low levels and Southwest’s prices are not significantly lower that the “Big 3” in the USA.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:08 pm

skystar767 wrote:
It’s sad reading all the negative things about DY on here. Why so many of you dislike DY? What did the airline and the brand do to any of you? I look at DY as the 747 of our time. DY made traveling cheaper for the average hard working European or American to travel. Before the 747 came out the price of a ticket was above the reach of the average person to take a plane ride. With DY your flying on brand new airplanes not old second hand charter airlines. so to the low lifes on here wishing for the closing of DY you should learn about free market and how the big US 3 and the big EU3 are ***** you over every time. That I phone or Mac your writing your dislike on for DY if it was not for cheap labor half of you could not afford that iPhone or Mac or what ever phone or computer your on now.


DY is my favorite short haul airline in Europe. I don't dislike them. I just think their financial situation has been unsustainable for a long time and they're not going to live for very long.
 
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AAR
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:19 pm

The press release today cannot be checked up it is Christmas Holiday in Scandinavia - even SAS does not fly from either CPH or ARN or OSL all journalists are on Christmas Holidays.. The fact is Norwegian has lost almost 12billionNOK over the last 15months and made a profit of 1,5billionNOK in the 3Q. Norwegian sell tickets below production price therefore the deficit. Norwegian sold more shares in the Spring those money seems to be lost - come and ask for another 5billionNOK just to save the time for the Summer.. The Airbus order will be difficult to sell with the PW1100 engines. Why do British Airways/Virgin/Air New Zealand not come up with the same problems with RR they have the type of planes.... I have noticed that DY fly more direct now over the Atlantic than they did months back related to the ETOPS issue - the planes have been fixed... I am agree the savings on 2billionNOK does not say how and where they will save. And I still wait for an answer on how NAS see a hard Brexit how it will affect the business
 
winginit
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:40 pm

skystar767 wrote:
Who set market price? The CEO of the big airlines. They meet once a year in the USA or some other part of the world to set the price for the next time few years. This last meeting was In the Caribbean if am not mistaken.


What on earth are you talking about? Do you realize you're accusing the CEOs of "the big airlines" of criminal violations of anti-trust law?

skystar767 wrote:
Listen DY is shaking up the market like southwest did.


But unlike Southwest, Norwegian does not have a sustainable business model.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:47 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
skystar767 wrote:
Who set market price? The CEO of the big airlines. They meet once a year in the USA or some other part of the world to set the price for the next time few years. This last meeting was In the Caribbean if am not mistaken. Listen DY is shaking up the market like southwest did. My friend market price are set by greedy people who are looking to screw you over every chance they can. Don’t buy in to the bs the big 6 are trying to feed you. In the end it’s all about the share holders and the top one % who smiles all the way to the bank


You are mistaken and please take some economics classes, you are embarrassing yourself.

Even a Keynesian would say you are completely off base.

And the price to fly on an inflation adjusted basis is still at historically low levels and Southwest’s prices are not significantly lower that the “Big 3” in the USA.


Lol. I'm beginning to wonder if the ridiculous false assumptions pervasive in patrickz80 and skystar767's posts just mean that they are being written by the same person.

Amazing that one can blindly believe their own conjecture formed without any real reference.
SuperTwin
 
winginit
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:58 pm

787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


Was it uneducated and undocumented speculation that tanked Norwegian's stock today -6.42% ?

The carrier's dire financial straits are well documented to the point where you hardly need an educated view to realize the current path is unsustainable.
 
787Driver
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:20 pm

winginit wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


Was it uneducated and undocumented speculation that tanked Norwegian's stock today -6.42% ?

The carrier's dire financial straits are well documented to the point where you hardly need an educated view to realize the current path is unsustainable.


It was uneducated and undocumented claiming that Norwegian will collapse on January 1st, yes.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:06 am

RexBanner wrote:
It’s because they’re selling their product below cost (and they undoubtedly are looking at their financials). In the process they’re undercutting not just the other airlines but the staff at those other airlines whose Terms and Conditions get benchmarked against Norwegian’s which are unrealistically low. Perpetuating the downward spiral for conditions in this industry.


There is nothing unethical for a market challenger to sell their product below cost, unless they cheat their funders. If the owners agree to finance it - as their hobby or whatever reason to conquer the world - outsiders have nothing to complain. It is a different story if the carrier in a dominant market position wants to outcompete market entrants, and that is illegal at least in EU.

The Terms and Conditions for Norwegian pilots are still significantly better than those of average workers. It is that the Terms and Conditions of Legacy airlines are from another planet. Remember, it is the poor passengers who pay the extra high salaries of pilots and other staff.

If Norwegian finds a creative though legal way to reduce the costs, it is welcome, as long as they do not play with safety [that should be illegal anyway].
 
tommy1808
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:12 am

skystar767 wrote:
. DY made traveling cheaper for the average hard working European or American to travel.


I am still waiting to see DY offering a competitive price for any flight I want to go on. At least when there is hubbing involved they are not cheap at all.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:14 am

SuperTwin wrote:
Lol. I'm beginning to wonder if the ridiculous false assumptions pervasive in patrickz80 and skystar767's posts just mean that they are being written by the same person.

Amazing that one can blindly believe their own conjecture formed without any real reference.


I can assure you this is not the case. In fact, I disagree with skystar767 here as I also don't believe in this staged conspiracy. I do believe the legacies are too expensive because of their too high cost base, and because they all have that same too high cost base they're all in the same position. Any airline with a lower cost base can beat them.

To get a lower cost base it takes creativity, out-of-the-box thinking. Not doing the same as everybody else, doing it differently. It's sad to see that Norwegian is not doing that enough. Part of them wants to, look at their flights to Stewart and Providence. That's one thing good about Norwegian. However this isn't seen back in the rest of their organization. They're becoming too much of a legacy, doing the same as everybody else and therefor getting that same high cost base as everybody else. That's killing them.
 
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Faro
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:18 am

THS214 wrote:
axiom wrote:
THS214 wrote:

That Norwegian statement doesn't have anything to do with their current financial situation. All the speculation can easily be verified by their financial reports.


What? That Norwegian statement has -everything- to do with their current financial situation.

Seems they've bought more time.


No it doesn't. It's all about future. "Combined, these measures should improve the financial performance from the start of 2019." What I wrote was a response for what I queted.



They have secured financing for their aircraft purchases over the first semester of 2019...that in a nutshell tells you everything you need to know...the creditors still have confidence...at least until 30.06.2019...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
senatorflyer
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:05 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:
Lol. I'm beginning to wonder if the ridiculous false assumptions pervasive in patrickz80 and skystar767's posts just mean that they are being written by the same person.

Amazing that one can blindly believe their own conjecture formed without any real reference.


I can assure you this is not the case. In fact, I disagree with skystar767 here as I also don't believe in this staged conspiracy. I do believe the legacies are too expensive because of their too high cost base, and because they all have that same too high cost base they're all in the same position. Any airline with a lower cost base can beat them.

To get a lower cost base it takes creativity, out-of-the-box thinking. Not doing the same as everybody else, doing it differently. It's sad to see that Norwegian is not doing that enough. Part of them wants to, look at their flights to Stewart and Providence. That's one thing good about Norwegian. However this isn't seen back in the rest of their organization. They're becoming too much of a legacy, doing the same as everybody else and therefor getting that same high cost base as everybody else. That's killing them.


Lol clearly you don’t know what you are talking about.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:30 am

senatorflyer wrote:
Lol clearly you don’t know what you are talking about.


And you do? I got the feeling you're stuck in the box, stuck in a pattern of how things "should" be done. In your eyes, everything that doesn't match that pattern is doomed to fail. However there are countless examples of success because people dared to break the pattern.

Of course not everything outside the box will succeed, but that doesn't mean you have to stay inside it all the time. It just means you got to find your own way, which sometimes takes a little steering-by. It's unexplored territory. It might work or it might not, there's only one way to find out. I just don't believe in people who say upfront that it won't work because it's out of the box, out of their way of thinking.

I'm thinking of this "out of the box" territory as a swamp. You might stay away from it, or you might find your way through it. Stay away from it and you'll be safe, but it takes you more effort to get to the other side. Find your way through it you risk drowning, but if you succeed you can beat the ones staying away from it. Comparing this to airlines, legacy airlines stay away from the swamp. They just take the extra effort of getting around it for granted, for unavoidable costs. The ones going through the swamp are able to shave off a good bit of those costs the legacies took for granted.
 
senatorflyer
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:57 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
senatorflyer wrote:
Lol clearly you don’t know what you are talking about.


And you do? I got the feeling you're stuck in the box, stuck in a pattern of how things "should" be done. In your eyes, everything that doesn't match that pattern is doomed to fail. However there are countless examples of success because people dared to break the pattern.

Of course not everything outside the box will succeed, but that doesn't mean you have to stay inside it all the time. It just means you got to find your own way, which sometimes takes a little steering-by. It's unexplored territory. It might work or it might not, there's only one way to find out. I just don't believe in people who say upfront that it won't work because it's out of the box, out of their way of thinking.

I'm thinking of this "out of the box" territory as a swamp. You might stay away from it, or you might find your way through it. Stay away from it and you'll be safe, but it takes you more effort to get to the other side. Find your way through it you risk drowning, but if you succeed you can beat the ones staying away from it. Comparing this to airlines, legacy airlines stay away from the swamp. They just take the extra effort of getting around it for granted, for unavoidable costs. The ones going through the swamp are able to shave off a good bit of those costs the legacies took for granted.


I am not stuck in a box but I do know how a market works, how a business operates and the cost associated to it.

Your so called creativity and out of the box thinking can be applied to some back office functions and some smaller contracts with vendors. You can also pay your staff peanuts if you like. But that’s where it ends. All other expenditure will be in the same region like a legacy carrier. Legacy carriers are not standing around and watch a LCC grow on their turf anymore. They will fight them. And naturally, the bigger player will win, especially if you start a fight with not much cash at your hands.
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 5700
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:02 am

AAR wrote:
I wonder why NAS does not say how they predict a Hard Brexit almost ½ of the long haul fleet based in Gatwick, Danske Bank is one of the daily banks for Norwegian Air Shuttle ...

The statement from Norwegian Air Shuttle does not calm me in any way...



Because no one really knows what happens with a hard Brexit with any airline. However as I have posted before in this thread:

Mortyman wrote:
AAR wrote:
The interest goes up - Hard Brexit ahead - not sold the 140 frames yet... Norwegian sees a hard time ahead... The Airbus order ?


i don't really think that a hard Brexit will be a problem. Norwegian has operation in both Scandinavia, the UK and the EU. The company has air licenses in all three, and thus does not need to apply for any new license.

Norwegian has also secured US permits for both its Norwegian, Irish and British companies, which would initially ensure that the company could continue to fly after brexit.

Because of a possible hard Brexit I believe they are also working on pilot and crew licenses both for UK and EU for all pilots and cew.


But no one really knows what will happen, but I don't think that Norwegian is the only one who will possibly have problems.
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:49 am

Since it's a fact that IAG would like to own them,it must also be a fact ( surely) that Norwegian would turn to them in the face of any imminent collapse.What would the advantage be in actually collapsing? A better deal from someone else? Unlikely as it would have happened by now if there was one.
 
SKCPH
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:50 am

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:52 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:


To get a lower cost base it takes creativity, out-of-the-box thinking. Not doing the same as everybody else, doing it differently. It's sad to see that Norwegian is not doing that enough. Part of them wants to, look at their flights to Stewart and Providence. That's one thing good about Norwegian. However this isn't seen back in the rest of their organization. They're becoming too much of a legacy, doing the same as everybody else and therefor getting that same high cost base as everybody else. That's killing them.


I think they have done all they can and it still isn't enough. Ones disdain for legacies can't be allowed to cloud ones judgement when it comes to a workable business model. Norwegians problem seems to be one of debt, they have overextended themselves. I actually think that they are onto something, they just need to dial it back.
Rgds,

SKCPH
 
BA777FO
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:52 am

YIMBY wrote:
The Terms and Conditions for Norwegian pilots are still significantly better than those of average workers. It is that the Terms and Conditions of Legacy airlines are from another planet. Remember, it is the poor passengers who pay the extra high salaries of pilots and other staff.


Really?! Trying to equate a pilot to an "average worker" is never going to enhance your argument - it's not an "average" job. How do you justify conditions for legacy pilots are "from another planet"? Genuinely curious of the thought-process here.
 
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hOMSaR
Posts: 2198
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:08 pm

Faro wrote:

They have secured financing for their aircraft purchases over the first semester of 2019...that in a nutshell tells you everything you need to know...the creditors still have confidence...at least until 30.06.2019...


Faro


It tells me that the creditors have confidence in the fleet having some value (787s are a hot commodity and so if they had to find a new taker, it wouldn’t be too hard). If we knew the terms of the financing, that would say exactly how much confidence the creditors had in Norwegian itself.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Faro wrote:
LuxuryTravelled wrote:
The Company is pleased to announce that the financing for all aircraft deliveries for the first half of 2019 is secured. This also includes refinancing of one of the delivered Dreamliners, resulting in a positive liquidity effect of NOK 275 million in December 2018.


This is good news for DY...its creditors have not lost confidence in the airline...or at least not yet...hope they pull through...


Faro


With oil's rapid decent from it's unwarrented run up, most airlines should be sitting pretty for Summer 2019 fuel prices. Norwegian and it's long hual ops should be no exception. Will they take their first A321LR this Summer?
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:50 pm

winginit wrote:
787Driver wrote:
Great news! Now can we lock the thread is the topic is based on uneducated and undocumented speculation.


Was it uneducated and undocumented speculation that tanked Norwegian's stock today -6.42% ?

The carrier's dire financial straits are well documented to the point where you hardly need an educated view to realize the current path is unsustainable.


Everything is tanking if you haven't noticed.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:00 pm

skystar767 wrote:
It’s sad reading all the negative things about DY on here. Why so many of you dislike DY? What did the airline and the brand do to any of you? I look at DY as the 747 of our time. DY made traveling cheaper for the average hard working European or American to travel. Before the 747 came out the price of a ticket was above the reach of the average person to take a plane ride. With DY your flying on brand new airplanes not old second hand charter airlines. so to the low lifes on here wishing for the closing of DY you should learn about free market and how the big US 3 and the big EU3 are ***** you over every time. That I phone or Mac your writing your dislike on for DY if it was not for cheap labor half of you could not afford that iPhone or Mac or what ever phone or computer your on now.


You are absolutely wrong about this. You either havent researched why NAI is hated by airline employees, or you’re just simply ignoring it. No one, including myself is against free market competition. What NAI is doing though is not that at all. They’re using the flag of convienence model, an underhanded loophole approach to gain significant cost advantage over other airlines. Registering their aircraft and employees in what ever country has the least regulatory oversight and lowest labor standards to gain an advantage. All you need to do is look at the demise of the US maritime industry to understand the impact of flag of convinence. We don’t want to see our airline industry follow suit. So yes, down with Norwegian!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:36 pm

It's a crazy Industry , almost any company can go under. Delta, AA, united, frontier have all filed for bankruptcy. All are flying.

This does seem like a end of year, piece they were working on publish now article as filler. The Norweigan sky is falling people are going on years. "Norweigan won't make it thru 2017". "no way is Norweigan flying in summer 2018" Could happen but, let's wait till there are some real news to panic on a new Norweigan will go under thread LOL
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

Re: Reuters/Norwegian Media: DY at Risk of Collapse

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:00 pm

ABEguy wrote:
skystar767 wrote:
It’s sad reading all the negative things about DY on here. Why so many of you dislike DY? What did the airline and the brand do to any of you? I look at DY as the 747 of our time. DY made traveling cheaper for the average hard working European or American to travel. Before the 747 came out the price of a ticket was above the reach of the average person to take a plane ride. With DY your flying on brand new airplanes not old second hand charter airlines. so to the low lifes on here wishing for the closing of DY you should learn about free market and how the big US 3 and the big EU3 are ***** you over every time. That I phone or Mac your writing your dislike on for DY if it was not for cheap labor half of you could not afford that iPhone or Mac or what ever phone or computer your on now.


You are absolutely wrong about this. You either havent researched why NAI is hated by airline employees, or you’re just simply ignoring it. No one, including myself is against free market competition. What NAI is doing though is not that at all. They’re using the flag of convienence model, an underhanded loophole approach to gain significant cost advantage over other airlines. Registering their aircraft and employees in what ever country has the least regulatory oversight and lowest labor standards to gain an advantage. All you need to do is look at the demise of the US maritime industry to understand the impact of flag of convinence. We don’t want to see our airline industry follow suit. So yes, down with Norwegian!


Three of their five AOCs are in expensive countries: Norway and the UK. A forth is Irish, with that unit having <70 aircraft. The fifth is in Argentina. So, only one - Irish - is really in question. Funnily enough, Scandinavian Airlines Ireland has existed since 2017, yet received very little attention.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."

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