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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:16 pm

AirFiero wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
AS DAL-PDX SEP 1.0>3[1.0]
AS DAL-SAN SEP 1.0>2[1.0]
AS DAL-SEA SEP 2>4[2]
AS DAL-SFO SEP 3>4[3]
AS DAL-SJC SEP 1.0>3[1.0]

But, but, but...AS will pull out of DAL any day now! (So they said) ;)


I wouldn’t hold my breath on these. September is a long ways away so you have to ask yourself why? Is it to show that they “will” be fully using the slots by a certain date? It’s easy to announce now and drop later - they can even lament that it happened because of big, bad DL/WN - but not before getting something else they want.

Who knows. I’d love to think that DAL is a goldmine, but I don’t think a limited schedule would allow a carrier like AS to see that payoff. Arguably, DL would make better sense for network reasons, but too bad for DL I guess.


While they are increasing it, and not cutting it, DAL remains an active place for AS until it is not. So all the speculation they will cut will remain speculation.

Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:22 pm

enilria wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I wouldn’t hold my breath on these. September is a long ways away so you have to ask yourself why? Is it to show that they “will” be fully using the slots by a certain date? It’s easy to announce now and drop later - they can even lament that it happened because of big, bad DL/WN - but not before getting something else they want.

Who knows. I’d love to think that DAL is a goldmine, but I don’t think a limited schedule would allow a carrier like AS to see that payoff. Arguably, DL would make better sense for network reasons, but too bad for DL I guess.


While they are increasing it, and not cutting it, DAL remains an active place for AS until it is not. So all the speculation they will cut will remain speculation.

Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.


Maybe WN will buy it as a gift to DL (and themselves)? Probably not legal.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:05 pm

FA9295 wrote:
enilria wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
1). MKE was daily
2). I'm sure enilria is talking about the greater picture, not just this week. I agree, AS had more adds than drops at PDX this week--but given that they dropped STL, DTW, ATL, and reduced a bunch of routes to seasonal since the new management came in...

Yes, there has been a trend out of long-haul markets. Also, I don't believe the new DAL flights will happen (not just to PDX).

Once Alaska starts its 4x daily SEA-DAL schedule (if that ever pans out), then SEA-Dallas will be at 18 daily flights (9x AA, 7x AS, 1x NK, 1x WN). That seems like WAY too much. I find it funny how lots of people on here have said that SEA-DFW/DAL is Delta's largest hole at their SEA hub network, but given this kind of schedule, there would be absolutely no room for them at all. Not to mention that Delta's overall yields at Seattle are already terrible.

Regarding Alaska's transition out of long-haul ops at PDX, I believe that this mostly has to do with their rapidly changing strategy overall, which most likely has to do with the VX merger. Yields are much more important to them now then ever before, since they have to deal with VX's weaker route network and competition with UA at SFO (on top of competition with DL at SEA), and if they can find that certain aircraft are more useful elsewhere, then they won't hesitate to move them wherever they need to in order to make as much money as possible. Now that LAX and SFO are larger hubs for AS, they have more options of places where said aircraft could be more useful at. It seems like most of the planes are getting moved to SEA and SAN, while PDX and SJC are continuously seeing more and more cuts/reductions overtime.



O&D SEA-DFW/DAL may be over served, but AS has a high load factor DFW-SEA, AA has a very high load factor.
I've flown NK 6 times now this summer and I don't think any of the flights were over 60% full. Can't beat a last minute fare of $296.40 including a big front seat vs the $900+ I pay on AA. Before the VX merger, I routinely paid $900+ last minute on AS metal. That's with using gold 75K instant upgrade fares.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:05 pm

Nothing in there about EI moving MSP-DUB up a week? At least they did on their website.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:14 pm

enilria wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I wouldn’t hold my breath on these. September is a long ways away so you have to ask yourself why? Is it to show that they “will” be fully using the slots by a certain date? It’s easy to announce now and drop later - they can even lament that it happened because of big, bad DL/WN - but not before getting something else they want.

Who knows. I’d love to think that DAL is a goldmine, but I don’t think a limited schedule would allow a carrier like AS to see that payoff. Arguably, DL would make better sense for network reasons, but too bad for DL I guess.


While they are increasing it, and not cutting it, DAL remains an active place for AS until it is not. So all the speculation they will cut will remain speculation.

Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.


There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
rainaviation
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:39 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Nothing in there about EI moving MSP-DUB up a week? At least they did on their website.


Question about this route... Will it be on an A321 or 757? I have heard differing answers!
 
wedgetail737
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:42 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

While they are increasing it, and not cutting it, DAL remains an active place for AS until it is not. So all the speculation they will cut will remain speculation.

Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.


There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


You always have naysayers when something unorthodox happens like AS flying to DAL. AS wouldn't be looking at increasing DAL without doing some sort of significant homework. If it doesn't work out, then that's the industry.

Maybe in the light of DAL, AS might consider flying to HOU...eventually. Sure...WN is a damn formidable competitor, but AS has been messing with WN in many ways already. They already have announced ELP.

I would love to see additional cities, but IMHO, AS should concentrate on strengthening their existing markets, which I've seen them doing lately.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:06 am

rainaviation wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Nothing in there about EI moving MSP-DUB up a week? At least they did on their website.


Question about this route... Will it be on an A321 or 757? I have heard differing answers!

As of now they’ll be using a 757. But I suppose that could change at anytime. It’s roughly the same seating capacity.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
DDR
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:20 am

EA CO AS wrote:
There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


I tend to agree with you. AS isn't stupid. They aren't going to operate flights that they think will lose money just to keep DL from getting a gate. If the flights end up not working out, they will get cut. AS isn't some unknown airline anymore. They operate lots of flights beyond the west coast now.

We all know that no matter what happens, DL isn't going to be kicked out of DAL. Room will be made somewhere to accommodate them. They may end up operating every flight out of a different gate, but they will still be there. I honestly think Delta's obsession with serving DAL is them just trying to be difficult. They have plenty of flights down the road at DFW. You don't see AA and UA obsessing over DAL.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:22 am

ryanrap1 wrote:
Alaska is adding a second SAT - SEA flight ❤️


Same with PHL-SEA!
 
n7371f
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:37 am

DL will be running the A220 when it starts SEA-DFW - and that thing will eat any E75's lunch on that route. And it's going to happen.

FA9295 wrote:
enilria wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
1). MKE was daily
2). I'm sure enilria is talking about the greater picture, not just this week. I agree, AS had more adds than drops at PDX this week--but given that they dropped STL, DTW, ATL, and reduced a bunch of routes to seasonal since the new management came in...

Yes, there has been a trend out of long-haul markets. Also, I don't believe the new DAL flights will happen (not just to PDX).

Once Alaska starts its 4x daily SEA-DAL schedule (if that ever pans out), then SEA-Dallas will be at 18 daily flights (9x AA, 7x AS, 1x NK, 1x WN). That seems like WAY too much. I find it funny how lots of people on here have said that SEA-DFW/DAL is Delta's largest hole at their SEA hub network, but given this kind of schedule, there would be absolutely no room for them at all. Not to mention that Delta's overall yields at Seattle are already terrible.

Regarding Alaska's transition out of long-haul ops at PDX, I believe that this mostly has to do with their rapidly changing strategy overall, which most likely has to do with the VX merger. Yields are much more important to them now then ever before, since they have to deal with VX's weaker route network and competition with UA at SFO (on top of competition with DL at SEA), and if they can find that certain aircraft are more useful elsewhere, then they won't hesitate to move them wherever they need to in order to make as much money as possible. Now that LAX and SFO are larger hubs for AS, they have more options of places where said aircraft could be more useful at. It seems like most of the planes are getting moved to SEA and SAN, while PDX and SJC are continuously seeing more and more cuts/reductions overtime.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:47 am

EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

While they are increasing it, and not cutting it, DAL remains an active place for AS until it is not. So all the speculation they will cut will remain speculation.

Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.


There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


Seems there is a very vocal contingent of a.netters that really want to see AS fail at DAL. If they are hurting as bad as some beleive, they'd just pack up and stay at DFW. If you are losing money on routes, gate sitting makes zero sense.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
AirFiero
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:01 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
Look, if they were increasing it due to demand, they would not be increasing in September. It is a ploy related to the gate situation. I've heard that they were in danger of having to give a gate to DL for free that they/VX paid dearly for. My guess is they are hoping DL will now offer cash instead of hoping to be awarded the gate.


There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


Seems there is a very vocal contingent of a.netters that really want to see AS fail at DAL. If they are hurting as bad as some beleive, they'd just pack up and stay at DFW. If you are losing money on routes, gate sitting makes zero sense.


Exactly. If they weren’t making enough at DAL, and were on their way out, why lose MORE money adding flights just so they can bail out fairly soon after? It makes no business sense.
 
joeblow10
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:17 am

AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


Seems there is a very vocal contingent of a.netters that really want to see AS fail at DAL. If they are hurting as bad as some beleive, they'd just pack up and stay at DFW. If you are losing money on routes, gate sitting makes zero sense.


Exactly. If they weren’t making enough at DAL, and were on their way out, why lose MORE money adding flights just so they can bail out fairly soon after? It makes no business sense.


I haven't been involved in this discussion... but I tend to believe that the main debate here is whether there is any way for them to make money with such a massive increase in capacity (i.e. they may be making money now, but will they be able to make more when they essentially double capacity?)

Agreed there are a certain amount of DAL/AS detractors on here... I'm no detractor, but I'm definitely skeptical that these moves will be revenue positive. Tend to believe it's more leverage than anything, but obviously, I don't have access to the profitability data
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:24 am

joeblow10 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:

Seems there is a very vocal contingent of a.netters that really want to see AS fail at DAL. If they are hurting as bad as some beleive, they'd just pack up and stay at DFW. If you are losing money on routes, gate sitting makes zero sense.


Exactly. If they weren’t making enough at DAL, and were on their way out, why lose MORE money adding flights just so they can bail out fairly soon after? It makes no business sense.


I haven't been involved in this discussion... but I tend to believe that the main debate here is whether there is any way for them to make money with such a massive increase in capacity (i.e. they may be making money now, but will they be able to make more when they essentially double capacity?)

Agreed there are a certain amount of DAL/AS detractors on here... I'm no detractor, but I'm definitely skeptical that these moves will be revenue positive. Tend to believe it's more leverage than anything, but obviously, I don't have access to the profitability data


They better be revenue positive. More seats should almost always equal more revenue. I’m dubious they’ll be profitable. The struggle is likely on the Dallas point of sale since they only go West and aren’t very well known locally.
 
cschleic
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:25 am

spinotter wrote:
khinstorff wrote:
UA starting EUG-ORD is a shock.


ORD-RDM is even more of a shock.


And on top of that, looking at a random date (7/7/18), both flights to ORD are red-eyes. I can understand the flights from ORD to RDM and EUG...both leave about 7:30 pm and arrive around 9:45pm. But then the departures back are about two hours later. Is there that much traffic going from RDM and EUG to SFO or SEA or wherever in the evening that transfers to a red-eye east?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:26 am

AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


Seems there is a very vocal contingent of a.netters that really want to see AS fail at DAL. If they are hurting as bad as some beleive, they'd just pack up and stay at DFW. If you are losing money on routes, gate sitting makes zero sense.


Exactly. If they weren’t making enough at DAL, and were on their way out, why lose MORE money adding flights just so they can bail out fairly soon after? It makes no business sense.


It’s really no different than investing in your business. Lose $5M on these routes short-term to get something worth significantly more long term. What that is, we don’t know. It could be something innocuous or it could be something a bit more nefarious. Ultimately, we can’t “know” but we can make educated guesses.

In fairness to AS, offering additional frequencies and connectivity may improve their standing with business customers and improve their performance. Again, though, I’m not holding my breath.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
32andBelow
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:28 am

rainaviation wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
crescent wrote:
Well if AS had only 1 PDX-ORD and 1 PDX-MKE per day, I would make it 2 & 0 too.


One wonders if it is only a matter of time before AS pulls out of MKE entirely. One daily flight to SEA doesn't seem worth the effort for AS.

enilria wrote:

SY ANC-MSP JUL 0>1.9[1.7] AUG 0>1.9[1.4] SEP 0>1.9[0.1]


I thought this deserved an asterisk. With Sun Country adding double daily to ANC, and with Delta's three daily, there will be FIVE daily flights to ANC from MSP this summer!!


SY had double daily last summer if I remember right, and on certain days it was also three daily with a red-eye. I see they are also expanding into September though. I can't believe how big the MSP-ANC market is.

I actually know a pilot that works for SY that ONLY flew MSP-ANC-MSP, for the whole summer.

It’s not. Going to MSP on delta is the gateway for the entire east coast and Europe from Alaska. Going to Seattle is way out of the way
 
joeblow10
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:39 am

cschleic wrote:
spinotter wrote:
khinstorff wrote:
UA starting EUG-ORD is a shock.


ORD-RDM is even more of a shock.


And on top of that, looking at a random date (7/7/18), both flights to ORD are red-eyes. I can understand the flights from ORD to RDM and EUG...both leave about 7:30 pm and arrive around 9:45pm. But then the departures back are about two hours later. Is there that much traffic going from RDM and EUG to SFO or SEA or wherever in the evening that transfers to a red-eye east?


You wouldn't think so... but UA has been running some weird redeyes for some time: GEG-ORD, ONT-IAH, etc... I guess they can make them work (though GEG-ORD doesn't look to be coming back as a redeye next summer, but it's operating for Xmas)
 
rainaviation
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:46 am

32andBelow wrote:
rainaviation wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:

One wonders if it is only a matter of time before AS pulls out of MKE entirely. One daily flight to SEA doesn't seem worth the effort for AS.



I thought this deserved an asterisk. With Sun Country adding double daily to ANC, and with Delta's three daily, there will be FIVE daily flights to ANC from MSP this summer!!


SY had double daily last summer if I remember right, and on certain days it was also three daily with a red-eye. I see they are also expanding into September though. I can't believe how big the MSP-ANC market is.

I actually know a pilot that works for SY that ONLY flew MSP-ANC-MSP, for the whole summer.

It’s not. Going to MSP on delta is the gateway for the entire east coast and Europe from Alaska. Going to Seattle is way out of the way


I understand, I meant I can't believe the amount of traffic between MSP and ANC. I know that it is mostly connecting traffic, but with 6 flights per day and only 1 in the winter, it is definitely a very seasonal demand.
 
32andBelow
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Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:05 am

rainaviation wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
rainaviation wrote:

SY had double daily last summer if I remember right, and on certain days it was also three daily with a red-eye. I see they are also expanding into September though. I can't believe how big the MSP-ANC market is.

I actually know a pilot that works for SY that ONLY flew MSP-ANC-MSP, for the whole summer.

It’s not. Going to MSP on delta is the gateway for the entire east coast and Europe from Alaska. Going to Seattle is way out of the way


I understand, I meant I can't believe the amount of traffic between MSP and ANC. I know that it is mostly connecting traffic, but with 6 flights per day and only 1 in the winter, it is definitely a very seasonal demand.

Yes for sure that’s just life in Alaskan tourism. I almost feel like delta could keep that 757 going to Japan in the summer.
 
khinstorff
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:04 am

cschleic wrote:
spinotter wrote:
khinstorff wrote:
UA starting EUG-ORD is a shock.


ORD-RDM is even more of a shock.


And on top of that, looking at a random date (7/7/18), both flights to ORD are red-eyes. I can understand the flights from ORD to RDM and EUG...both leave about 7:30 pm and arrive around 9:45pm. But then the departures back are about two hours later. Is there that much traffic going from RDM and EUG to SFO or SEA or wherever in the evening that transfers to a red-eye east?


From personal experience, yes. I went to college in Eugene and would go home to Wisconsin for breaks. I can’t tell you how many students would be using SFO & SEA for red-eyes.
 
EvanWSFO
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:50 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Exactly. If they weren’t making enough at DAL, and were on their way out, why lose MORE money adding flights just so they can bail out fairly soon after? It makes no business sense.


I haven't been involved in this discussion... but I tend to believe that the main debate here is whether there is any way for them to make money with such a massive increase in capacity (i.e. they may be making money now, but will they be able to make more when they essentially double capacity?)

Agreed there are a certain amount of DAL/AS detractors on here... I'm no detractor, but I'm definitely skeptical that these moves will be revenue positive. Tend to believe it's more leverage than anything, but obviously, I don't have access to the profitability data


They better be revenue positive. More seats should almost always equal more revenue. I’m dubious they’ll be profitable. The struggle is likely on the Dallas point of sale since they only go West and aren’t very well known locally.


My employer has it's HQ in Dallas. I have many friends there. We've been seeing AS planes in Dallas since the old interchange days. AS is quite well known.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
evank516
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:53 pm

*WG DAB-YYZ JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0] SEP 0>0.3[0]


Thought this was seasonal through May. Guessing bookings are going well?
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:21 pm

9X DSI-MEM JAN 0.3>0.0[0.3] FEB 0.3>0[0.2]



I would be shocked if they pick it back up in the summer as well with Allegiant flights to VPS now a thing
 
evank516
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:36 pm

DDR wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


I tend to agree with you. AS isn't stupid. They aren't going to operate flights that they think will lose money just to keep DL from getting a gate. If the flights end up not working out, they will get cut. AS isn't some unknown airline anymore. They operate lots of flights beyond the west coast now.

We all know that no matter what happens, DL isn't going to be kicked out of DAL. Room will be made somewhere to accommodate them. They may end up operating every flight out of a different gate, but they will still be there. I honestly think Delta's obsession with serving DAL is them just trying to be difficult. They have plenty of flights down the road at DFW. You don't see AA and UA obsessing over DAL.


I don't really think Delta is trying to be difficult. DAL fits in with their normal strategy of serving both primary and secondary airports in certain markets. They fly to IAH and HOU as well as ORD and MDW, and they're the only one of the big three to fly to each of those secondary airports (yes, I know AA flies to HOU). You see them at every airport in the LAX basin, all three major NYC Area Airports plus HPN and SWF (only ISP is missing), you see them at SFO, OAK, and SJC as well. Based on all of that, I don't think the gate cap at DAL is the reason DL is flying there. They'd be there regardless.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:46 pm

evank516 wrote:
DDR wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


I tend to agree with you. AS isn't stupid. They aren't going to operate flights that they think will lose money just to keep DL from getting a gate. If the flights end up not working out, they will get cut. AS isn't some unknown airline anymore. They operate lots of flights beyond the west coast now.

We all know that no matter what happens, DL isn't going to be kicked out of DAL. Room will be made somewhere to accommodate them. They may end up operating every flight out of a different gate, but they will still be there. I honestly think Delta's obsession with serving DAL is them just trying to be difficult. They have plenty of flights down the road at DFW. You don't see AA and UA obsessing over DAL.


I don't really think Delta is trying to be difficult. DAL fits in with their normal strategy of serving both primary and secondary airports in certain markets. They fly to IAH and HOU as well as ORD and MDW, and they're the only one of the big three to fly to each of those secondary airports (yes, I know AA flies to HOU). You see them at every airport in the LAX basin, all three major NYC Area Airports plus HPN and SWF (only ISP is missing), you see them at SFO, OAK, and SJC as well. Based on all of that, I don't think the gate cap at DAL is the reason DL is flying there. They'd be there regardless.


I agree. This is how DL operates, going into multiple airports.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:32 pm

DDR wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
There you go again, assuming AS has no place at DAL, can't possibly compete, and anything they do there can't be demand-based. Why can't you just admit you may have been wrong about AS competing at DAL and see where things go?


I tend to agree with you. AS isn't stupid. They aren't going to operate flights that they think will lose money just to keep DL from getting a gate. If the flights end up not working out, they will get cut. AS isn't some unknown airline anymore. They operate lots of flights beyond the west coast now.

We all know that no matter what happens, DL isn't going to be kicked out of DAL. Room will be made somewhere to accommodate them. They may end up operating every flight out of a different gate, but they will still be there. I honestly think Delta's obsession with serving DAL is them just trying to be difficult. They have plenty of flights down the road at DFW. You don't see AA and UA obsessing over DAL.


This isn't a very intelligent post. So AS isn't stupid and doesn't do things that don't make them money, but DL, the world's most profitable airline, is just trying to be difficult? How do you reconcile those two? Perhaps DL is also making money in DAL, and thus, doesn't want to discontinue service there... Hmmm... :?

Jeremy
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1988
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:52 pm

New planning leadership at AS doesn't seem to like PDX very much
**AS MKE-PDX JUN 0.8>0[0.6] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.8>0[0.8]
AS ORD-PDX JUN 1.0>1.8[1.0] JUL 1.0>2[1.0] AUG 1.2>2.0[1.2]
AS PDX-RNO JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3]

While I enjoy perusing your weekly posting, I don't always enjoy your personal commentary Enrilia. The quote above being a perfect example. Yes, I know...I don't have to read it. But I find the minutia of the airline biz interesting so I suppose I must take the good with the not-so-good.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15287
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:27 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
New planning leadership at AS doesn't seem to like PDX very much
**AS MKE-PDX JUN 0.8>0[0.6] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.8>0[0.8]
AS ORD-PDX JUN 1.0>1.8[1.0] JUL 1.0>2[1.0] AUG 1.2>2.0[1.2]
AS PDX-RNO JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3]

While I enjoy perusing your weekly posting, I don't always enjoy your personal commentary Enrilia. The quote above being a perfect example. Yes, I know...I don't have to read it. But I find the minutia of the airline biz interesting so I suppose I must take the good with the not-so-good.


It’s more about the unreasonable bias; AS posts large capacity increases at DAL, and those are overlooked- first, treated as though they didn’t exist, then acknowledged with a comment along the lines of, “Well, I didn’t include those because I think something else is going on that aligns with my multi-year belief that AS has no business trying to make DAL work.”

I too appreciate the work that goes into this but the commentary and blatant anti-AS bias diminishes it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/23/2018:9X Adds PBI-TPA;AA Drops AMA-PHX;AS Drops MKE-PDX;DL Adds BOS-CLE

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:48 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
New planning leadership at AS doesn't seem to like PDX very much
**AS MKE-PDX JUN 0.8>0[0.6] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.8>0[0.8]
AS ORD-PDX JUN 1.0>1.8[1.0] JUL 1.0>2[1.0] AUG 1.2>2.0[1.2]
AS PDX-RNO JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3]

While I enjoy perusing your weekly posting, I don't always enjoy your personal commentary Enrilia. The quote above being a perfect example. Yes, I know...I don't have to read it. But I find the minutia of the airline biz interesting so I suppose I must take the good with the not-so-good.


I agree. It's not a matter of management (of any kind) likes PDX or not. If the numbers don't support the service, AS management is not going to keep it.

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