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Finn350
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:01 pm

Revelation wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

So, they were over Kamchatka when they started descending? Why not just land there?


I can’t think any other reason than that the engine issue apparently wasn’t severe enough to force diversion to the nearest suitable aerodrome. They flew quite a bit over sea to reach the Aleutians.

We've had this discussion before on a.net, and "nearest suitable aerodrome" is perhaps a bit more open ended than the words suggest.

For instance the wording isn't "nearest viable aerodrome" and that leaves room for discretion as to what makes one aerodrome suitable and another not.

Also a lot of things need to happen from top of descent to landing so a fair amount of the time would be taken up in the course of events.

We don't know the nature of the engine problem so we don't know the level of concern.

I presume since we haven't seen tons of social media posts that the problem wasn't very dramatic.


As you say, they certainly had fair amount of time for the landing, as after starting the descend, it took 2 hours and over 1000 km to land
 
777Mech
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:47 pm

Revelation wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

So, they were over Kamchatka when they started descending? Why not just land there?


I can’t think any other reason than that the engine issue apparently wasn’t severe enough to force diversion to the nearest suitable aerodrome. They flew quite a bit over sea to reach the Aleutians.

We've had this discussion before on a.net, and "nearest suitable aerodrome" is perhaps a bit more open ended than the words suggest.

For instance the wording isn't "nearest viable aerodrome" and that leaves room for discretion as to what makes one aerodrome suitable and another not.

Also a lot of things need to happen from top of descent to landing so a fair amount of the time would be taken up in the course of events.

We don't know the nature of the engine problem so we don't know the level of concern.

I presume since we haven't seen tons of social media posts that the problem wasn't very dramatic.


The issue was an engine rollback in cruise. I'm not familiar with the QRH for that issue, but I'm going to say that SYA's 10,000 foot runway played a huge part in the decision to go there.
 
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Finn350
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:52 pm

777Mech wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Finn350 wrote:

I can’t think any other reason than that the engine issue apparently wasn’t severe enough to force diversion to the nearest suitable aerodrome. They flew quite a bit over sea to reach the Aleutians.

We've had this discussion before on a.net, and "nearest suitable aerodrome" is perhaps a bit more open ended than the words suggest.

For instance the wording isn't "nearest viable aerodrome" and that leaves room for discretion as to what makes one aerodrome suitable and another not.

Also a lot of things need to happen from top of descent to landing so a fair amount of the time would be taken up in the course of events.

We don't know the nature of the engine problem so we don't know the level of concern.

I presume since we haven't seen tons of social media posts that the problem wasn't very dramatic.


The issue was an engine rollback in cruise. I'm not familiar with the QRH for that issue, but I'm going to say that SYA's 10,000 foot runway played a huge part in the decision to go there.


Per Wikipedia, Yelizovo Airport (PKC / UHPP) in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, has a 3,400 m (11,200 ft) runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavl ... ky_Airport
 
Chugach
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:57 pm

Finn350 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Revelation wrote:
We've had this discussion before on a.net, and "nearest suitable aerodrome" is perhaps a bit more open ended than the words suggest.

For instance the wording isn't "nearest viable aerodrome" and that leaves room for discretion as to what makes one aerodrome suitable and another not.

Also a lot of things need to happen from top of descent to landing so a fair amount of the time would be taken up in the course of events.

We don't know the nature of the engine problem so we don't know the level of concern.

I presume since we haven't seen tons of social media posts that the problem wasn't very dramatic.


The issue was an engine rollback in cruise. I'm not familiar with the QRH for that issue, but I'm going to say that SYA's 10,000 foot runway played a huge part in the decision to go there.


Per Wikipedia, Yelizovo Airport (PKC / UHPP) in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, has a 3,400 m (11,200 ft) runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavl ... ky_Airport


Even with the remoteness of Shemya, I’m guessing it was logistically easier to land at SYA instead of PKC assuming it was within any safety specifications.
 
Chugach
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:00 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
nh767300 wrote:
DL website says December 24 DL 128 from PEK to SEA diverts to SYA (Shemya)... must have been an amazing place to land in late December....

Shemya is a damn interesting place to even Have to land so they must have been well south of there before they turned to Land or they could have made it back to Anchorage now that Adak is closed, If they were south of Shemya they were in ETOPS diversion limits of Hokiado Japan. I flew those areas while in the Nave flying the P3C Orion.


Adak is still open, even though the Naval base is closed. A couple hundred people live on the island and AS sends a 737 in from ANC twice a week.

No idea if this was a factor, but SYA has a longer runway than ADK.
 
32andBelow
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:56 pm

I’m guessing checklist said land at closest airport and Shemya was closest airport. Cold bay would have been better than either as it has six Day a week commercial service
 
MrBretz
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:04 pm

Does anyone know if the rescue aircraft has left. I looked at DL’s website and see many canceled flights to SYA.
 
travaz
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:47 pm

I like to learn about all of the logistics and what not involved with a diversion like this. I think Shemya has a much more viable runway than Attu. It looks like the weather on the island is good today. Can we please leave the AA VS DL BS out of this thread?
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:03 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
aeromandan wrote:

I'd be surprised if they cancelled anything. Maybe delayed one or two flights at the most, but there likely was a 767 spare somewhere between MSP, SLC, LAX, and SEA. Especially with tomorrow being Christmas Day, there are likely more than a few dozen planes of various aircraft types sitting idle. From a fleet/aircraft routing perspective, I'm not sure there was a better day for this to happen.


Well the rescue 767 came from SEA, so not sure what MSP, SLC or LAX has to do with anything. What am I missing?


What you’re missing is the plane departed SEA, it wasn’t necessarily a spare sitting in SEA. It could have been anywhere in the DL system and flown into SEA. They departed SEA to avoid a crew rest issue in Shemya, same crew in/out back to SEA without needing a layover.

GF


It was sitting in SEA having arrived from CDG earlier. What am I missing that SLC, LAX or MSP are relevant to this?
Last edited by clrd4t8koff on Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Revelation
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:05 pm

Finn350 wrote:
The flight is from PEK to SEA. Shemya was basically on their route.

So maybe pax on tomorrow's SEA-PEK flight can look down and see the stranded PEK-SEA plane.
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LAXLHR
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:15 pm

bourbon wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
N628AU wrote:
Y’all know if this were an AA767 of the same vintage diverting this whole forum would be up in arms about how they need to go to the desert to chopped up immediately and AA is endangering the world population by continuing to fly them. Also Doug Parker should go to prison for not retiring them fast enough.


Exactly, but since its DL...smh.

I would love to know just how many AA, UA and DL diversions happen over the Pacific each year. So far we have 2 Delta emergency landings on this thread, what about the other US carriers?

Zero for UA or AA going to Asia. They are 777 or 787 only to Asia. Hawaii does get 767’s on UA I believe. AA A321, 777 and soon 787’s (they also get the 757 from PHX which might be an A330 at times too)


Thanks, yes I fly on AA's 787s and 777s to Asia a lot, so was just curious from all plane types for the US3 what the rate was.

Interestingly enough I was on an AA 788 to PVG and this lady was having a medical emergency across from me, in the same region of the DL jet and so we were close to declaring a medical emergency. I was in the J class gallery with one of the pilots watching. I was on a tight schedule and was like crap this will eat into my quick stopover in PVG, THEN I realized how selfish my thought was :-( and thought about the lady said a little prayer for her. Must be truly horrible to have a medical emergency in the sky. The lady ended up being ok. DO NOT check-in your medication!!.
BA JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL QQ UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN PC LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
fraT
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 pm

As per flightradar24 the rescue flight just took off.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:12 pm

fraT wrote:
As per flightradar24 the rescue flight just took off.


The rescue flight arrived in SEA about 10p Christmas Eve.

The flight that just took off, DL9978, is the continuation of the crippled plane. Maintenance probably checked it out, crew got rest and off they went.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /PASY/KSEA
 
fraT
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:17 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
fraT wrote:
As per flightradar24 the rescue flight just took off.


The rescue flight arrived in SEA about 10p Christmas Eve.

The flight that just took off, DL9978, is the continuation of the crippled plane. Maintenance probably checked it out, crew got rest and off they went.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /PASY/KSEA


Ah, I see. Thanks for the correction
 
barney captain
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:31 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
fraT wrote:
As per flightradar24 the rescue flight just took off.


The rescue flight arrived in SEA about 10p Christmas Eve.

The flight that just took off, DL9978, is the continuation of the crippled plane. Maintenance probably checked it out, crew got rest and off they went.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /PASY/KSEA



If accurate, this is an interesting twist -

Altitude 10,000 ft (Planned: 10,000 ft)


Disregard......FR24 shows FL410
Southeast Of Disorder
 
strfyr51
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:38 pm

N628AU wrote:
Y’all know if this were an AA767 of the same vintage diverting this whole forum would be up in arms about how they need to go to the desert to chopped up immediately and AA is endangering the world population by continuing to fly them. Also Doug Parker should go to prison for not retiring them fast enough.

Ease up Dude United still flies B767's and Nobody has ever said that! You seem to be compensating for something though I can't imagine what that may be.
 
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A333MSPtoAMS
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:42 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Well the rescue 767 came from SEA, so not sure what MSP, SLC or LAX has to do with anything. What am I missing?


What you’re missing is the plane departed SEA, it wasn’t necessarily a spare sitting in SEA. It could have been anywhere in the DL system and flown into SEA. They departed SEA to avoid a crew rest issue in Shemya, same crew in/out back to SEA without needing a layover.

GF


It was sitting in SEA having arrived from CDG earlier. What am I missing that SLC, LAX or MSP are relevant to this?


I suspect it was mentioned because they're Delta hubs and might more readily have a spare B767 that could be send for the continuation flight.
As of Dec 2018 I've flown 417,862 miles on 250 flights on 51 airplane types with 55 airlines traveling thru 97 airports in 43 countries. I've visited 59 countries. 2019 is looking like a pretty decent year for me.
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CriticalPoint
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:48 pm

Finn350 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Finn350 wrote:

The flight is from PEK to SEA. Shemya was basically on their route. Picture courtesy of FlightRadar24. The plane icon is where they started descending.

Image


So, they were over Kamchatka when they started descending? Why not just land there?


I can’t think any other reason than that the engine issue apparently wasn’t severe enough to force diversion to the nearest suitable aerodrome. They flew quite a bit over sea to reach the Aleutians.


International diversions are significantly more complicated than domestic diversions. Land at nearest suitable airport means just that, nearest suitable airport that your ops specs allows, that airport could be several hours away. Some airports and countries can only be used if continued flight is no longer an option.
 
strfyr51
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:53 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Shemya is a damn interesting place to even Have to land so they must have been well south of there before they turned to Land or they could have made it back to Anchorage now that Adak is closed, If they were south of Shemya they were in ETOPS diversion limits of Hokiado Japan. I flew those areas while in the Nave flying the P3C Orion.


The flight is from PEK to SEA. Shemya was basically on their route. Picture courtesy of FlightRadar24. The plane icon is where they started descending.

[imgp://i67.tinypic.com/jqi337.jpg[/img]


So, they were over Kamchatka when they started descending? Why not just land there?

The base at Kamchatka is a Russian Military base they would have demanded to do the work to fix the airplane, While robbing Delta Blind.
Better they returned to Misawa or Sapporo Japan where Japan Airlines or All Nippon could have helped them. Thee repair bill at Shemya is going to be STEEP as everything will have to be flown in. Mechanics, Parts and Tools.
 
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aeromandan
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:45 am

A333MSPtoAMS wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

What you’re missing is the plane departed SEA, it wasn’t necessarily a spare sitting in SEA. It could have been anywhere in the DL system and flown into SEA. They departed SEA to avoid a crew rest issue in Shemya, same crew in/out back to SEA without needing a layover.

GF


It was sitting in SEA having arrived from CDG earlier. What am I missing that SLC, LAX or MSP are relevant to this?


I suspect it was mentioned because they're Delta hubs and might more readily have a spare B767 that could be send for the continuation flight.


My apologies, my original post unintentionally had gaps in reasoning. I mention SLC, LAX, and MSP because they're the closest hub/pilot base/spare aircraft cities to SEA. Though the rescue aircraft came in to SEA from CDG, it could have potentially been scheduled to route out to another destination. If that were the case, if a 767 spare were sitting in one of those other cities, it could have been positioned in to SEA relatively quickly to keep everything running on time, if not slightly delayed. Point being that there is generally enough flexibility in the Delta fleet to prevent a cancellation. Not always, but generally there is a plan to have spare aircraft positioned strategically around the system.
 
N628AU
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:49 am

strfyr51 wrote:
N628AU wrote:
Y’all know if this were an AA767 of the same vintage diverting this whole forum would be up in arms about how they need to go to the desert to chopped up immediately and AA is endangering the world population by continuing to fly them. Also Doug Parker should go to prison for not retiring them fast enough.

Ease up Dude United still flies B767's and Nobody has ever said that! You seem to be compensating for something though I can't imagine what that may be.


Understand your sarcasm mode button has been MEL’d
 
FlyBitcoin
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:10 am

Bottom line is all things considered, DL pulled off this rescue mission with incredible speed and efficiency.
The original plane is about an hour from reaching SEA right now.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:03 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Finn350 wrote:

The flight is from PEK to SEA. Shemya was basically on their route. Picture courtesy of FlightRadar24. The plane icon is where they started descending.

[imgp://i67.tinypic.com/jqi337.jpg[/img]


So, they were over Kamchatka when they started descending? Why not just land there?

The base at Kamchatka is a Russian Military base they would have demanded to do the work to fix the airplane, While robbing Delta Blind.
Better they returned to Misawa or Sapporo Japan where Japan Airlines or All Nippon could have helped them. Thee repair bill at Shemya is going to be STEEP as everything will have to be flown in. Mechanics, Parts and Tools.


It’s an N-registered plane, all work has to be done by FAA-licensed techs under a FAA repair station. The Russians, no doubt, could have made the clearances for parts, techs, ramp access, etc expensive but their techs weren’t gonna work on the plane.

GF
 
caverunner17
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:30 pm

Does SYA have refueling capabilities? I'd assume the original flight will need additional fuel to make it back (unless they land at ANC to refuel). I believe the 767 would be able to tanker the fuel for SEA-SYA-SEA, especially given the ferry load on the way out.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:04 pm

caverunner17 wrote:
Does SYA have refueling capabilities? I'd assume the original flight will need additional fuel to make it back (unless they land at ANC to refuel). I believe the 767 would be able to tanker the fuel for SEA-SYA-SEA, especially given the ferry load on the way out.

Good question. During a past incident they had to fly in de-icers from MSP. My guess is this facility is pretty bare bones. They probably have fuel, but not much else.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
reality
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:07 pm

Eareckson Air Station

"Eareckson's primary missions are the operation and maintenance of the 10,000 foot airfield supporting the northern Pacific air bridge, and the support of several differing tenant units and non-tenant activities located at Eareckson.

"Its location in the middle of the northern Pacific Ocean makes it an ideal refueling stop for military aircraft flying between North America and Far East Asia. Eareckson also serves as a divert field for in-flight emergencies, and a base for search and rescue efforts in the Northern Pacific."

https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/fa ... shemya.htm


"The station still operates as a radar station and aircraft refueling station with a staff of about 180 people."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemya
 
strfyr51
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:46 pm

Amchi757300 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
KLASM83 wrote:
I wonder what accommodations are going to be like? Since it's a sparsely-populated area, probably some gym with lots of cots? Also wonder what everyone is doing for entertainment while waiting!

Interesting place for a divert, that's for sure!

Probably a lot better than a lot of places like in Eastern Russia or if involved a LCC. Customs/ICE could be an issue unless people are isolated at the airport or some other arrangements made, as well as handling unloading pax baggage for transfer to the replacement plane. Stuff happens and the PIC had to do the diversion for good reason and with consultation with DL's managers.

According to the link to FlightRadar24 posted earlier, the replacement plane won't be leaving SYA until 7 AM Christmas Day, arriving in SEA about 1:30 PM.


Do we think that they even deplane in a place like SYA in the winter time?

Assuming the plane has enough fuel to keep power on or an electrical hook up from the ground of course.

DL is sending a rescue plane relatively quickly.

Shemya though semote is actually fully operationa..l. They don't have Hotels or shopping but food and sleeping quarters are readily available and what needs to be encountered are supplied from ANC
 
32andBelow
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:59 pm

caverunner17 wrote:
Does SYA have refueling capabilities? I'd assume the original flight will need additional fuel to make it back (unless they land at ANC to refuel). I believe the 767 would be able to tanker the fuel for SEA-SYA-SEA, especially given the ferry load on the way out.

Yes they have fuel. Military airplanes and chartered biz jet type planes fly out there weekly
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3132
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:32 pm

32andBelow wrote:
caverunner17 wrote:
Does SYA have refueling capabilities? I'd assume the original flight will need additional fuel to make it back (unless they land at ANC to refuel). I believe the 767 would be able to tanker the fuel for SEA-SYA-SEA, especially given the ferry load on the way out.

Yes they have fuel. Military airplanes and chartered biz jet type planes fly out there weekly


Having both extensively, that surprises me. WTF for, when you can use ANC, Cold Bay, Khabarovsk or Petropavolosk?

GF
 
joeblow10
Posts: 190
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Re: DL 128 diverts to SYA (Shemya, Alaska)

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:37 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
caverunner17 wrote:
Does SYA have refueling capabilities? I'd assume the original flight will need additional fuel to make it back (unless they land at ANC to refuel). I believe the 767 would be able to tanker the fuel for SEA-SYA-SEA, especially given the ferry load on the way out.

Yes they have fuel. Military airplanes and chartered biz jet type planes fly out there weekly


Having both extensively, that surprises me. WTF for, when you can use ANC, Cold Bay, Khabarovsk or Petropavolosk?

GF


The "biz type" planes are usually coming from Elmendorf - so I think its reasonable to infer most ops at SYA are all military related unless there's an aircraft needing to land

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