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whywhyzee wrote:keesje wrote:Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com
Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.
whywhyzee wrote:keesje wrote:Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com
Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.
whywhyzee wrote:the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.
keesje wrote:whywhyzee wrote:keesje wrote:Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com
Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/
NG263 wrote:VonRichtofen wrote:Anybody know if these 321's are containerized or bulk loaded?
All Wow 320s & 321s are bulk loaded.
whywhyzee wrote:Anyone have any idea when they might arrive?
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:keesje wrote:whywhyzee wrote:
Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/
I see your point however Rouge is just a sort of department of Air Canada for which there's no public financial, yield or load data, as far as I know. Thus it's AC that decides all the goals and means for RV, which could explain why Rouge wasn't mentioned in the report.
Thenoflyzone wrote:That link doesn't specify where the frames are going. It's most likely headed to Rouge.
longhauler wrote:
For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.
Thenoflyzone wrote:^ Yeah, saw that.longhauler wrote:
For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.
What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?
keesje wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:^ Yeah, saw that.longhauler wrote:For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.
What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?
For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..
whywhyzee wrote:Bag loading aside, I wouldn’t be shocked to see these frames get so,e domestic work in combination with traditional rouge routes. Destinations like YQB and YYG have benefitted from moving to larger jets or Q’s, and I imagine more could follow.
Sidebar, I just did a 5.5hr segment in a Rouge A319 in Y, and I’ve done 9 hours in the 767, also in Y, no complaints whatsoever, I think it’s pretty fair that the Rouge product is realistically not different from most other offerings, so I say, keep the expansion going.
Revelation wrote:keesje wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:^ Yeah, saw that.
What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?
For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..
I guess that undermines the guess that everything gets homogenized upon induction to the airline.
Dominion301 wrote:whywhyzee wrote:Bag loading aside, I wouldn’t be shocked to see these frames get so,e domestic work in combination with traditional rouge routes. Destinations like YQB and YYG have benefitted from moving to larger jets or Q’s, and I imagine more could follow.
Sidebar, I just did a 5.5hr segment in a Rouge A319 in Y, and I’ve done 9 hours in the 767, also in Y, no complaints whatsoever, I think it’s pretty fair that the Rouge product is realistically not different from most other offerings, so I say, keep the expansion going.
Assuming the 5 'new' 321s do go to Rouge, I could see them displacing 319s over the summer, who in-turn could be used to upgauge the likes of YQM to Rouge.
In wonder what new Q400 routes could be opened up? Either that or those extra Qs add an extra frequency to somewhere like YFC and YSJ.
Newbiepilot wrote:Revelation wrote:keesje wrote:
For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..
I guess that undermines the guess that everything gets homogenized upon induction to the airline.
Some airlines standardize everything and others don’t. Passenger experience items in the cabin will almost always be standardized at a major airline. The flight deck is usually standardized too as much as possible so that there are no differences that pilots have to deal with. The rest of the plane is based on whether standardized configurations have a positive business case. I don’t know if the cargo hold is something Air Canada feels justified in standardizing.
My guess is that Air Canada is prioritizing getting the seating configuration matching Rouge as well as reconfiguring the flight deck such as metric vs English units, electronic flight bag/iPad , nav databases, HUDs, etc. those things are far more important to the airline than the cargo hold.
yyz717 wrote:aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.
No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
Noise wrote:yyz717 wrote:aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.
No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
Oh wow.
Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
Noise wrote:yyz717 wrote:aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.
No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
Oh wow.
Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
Newbiepilot wrote:EChid wrote:Newbiepilot wrote:They must also be willing to take some risk. I don’t imagine WOW investing a lot in their airplanes.
I don't think that should be a significant concern. These are planes operating in a developed country to developed countries, all with stringent safety standards. Their maintenance procedures would have been maintained properly since losing certification or developing an unsafe rep would absolutely be the final nail in the coffin.
I was referring to more financial risk than safety risk. Airlines in financial duress are less likely to stay on top of reliability upgrades. There also may be structural repairs that may need to be reworked or replaced to avoid repetitive inspections. There may be PMA parts from lower cost vendors or components may be repaired at vendors that dont include OEM upgrades which can affect reliability. Airlines getting planes repossesed also can scavenge life limited parts or parts recently overhauled. Air Canada may end up with planes with completely worn out brakes, tires etc.
Lessors charge maintenance reserves for a reason. Their A321s that came from Air France may be in better condition than WOW or Air Berlin. Everything can be cleaned up and addressed in a thorough C Check, but it may be expensive.
lightsaber wrote:Noise wrote:yyz717 wrote:aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.
No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
Oh wow.
Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
Well managed airlines are buying used.
Is it production delays transitioning to new engines/airframes or values in used airframes?
mcg wrote:Newbiepilot wrote:EChid wrote:I don't think that should be a significant concern. These are planes operating in a developed country to developed countries, all with stringent safety standards. Their maintenance procedures would have been maintained properly since losing certification or developing an unsafe rep would absolutely be the final nail in the coffin.
I was referring to more financial risk than safety risk. Airlines in financial duress are less likely to stay on top of reliability upgrades. There also may be structural repairs that may need to be reworked or replaced to avoid repetitive inspections. There may be PMA parts from lower cost vendors or components may be repaired at vendors that dont include OEM upgrades which can affect reliability. Airlines getting planes repossesed also can scavenge life limited parts or parts recently overhauled. Air Canada may end up with planes with completely worn out brakes, tires etc.
Lessors charge maintenance reserves for a reason. Their A321s that came from Air France may be in better condition than WOW or Air Berlin. Everything can be cleaned up and addressed in a thorough C Check, but it may be expensive.
Wouldn't Air Canada simply inspect the airplanes before purchase to determine their condition? The final price would reflect the condition of the aircraft. It's not that hard really.
Thomaas wrote:[twoid][/twoid]Noise wrote:yyz717 wrote:aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.
No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
Oh wow.
Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.
Dominion301 wrote:Thomaas wrote:[twoid][/twoid]Noise wrote:
Oh wow.
Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.
How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?
whywhyzee wrote:Dominion301 wrote:Thomaas wrote:[twoid][/twoid]
My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.
How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?
It's tied to mainline, for every mainline addition, Rouge is permitted a certain addition. I cannot recall the exact numbers.
whywhyzee wrote:Dominion301 wrote:Thomaas wrote:[twoid][/twoid]
My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.
How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?
It's tied to mainline, for every mainline addition, Rouge is permitted a certain addition. I cannot recall the exact numbers.
TriniA340 wrote:Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?
Whiteguy wrote:One narrow body at Rouge for every narrow body added to mainline, and 2 narrow bodies for every wide body added at mainline.
TriniA340 wrote:Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?
TriniA340 wrote:Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?
longhauler wrote:Yes and over the next year or two, it looks like almost unlimited narrow body growth at Rouge will be allowed.
As the E190s were not included in the "base line" total of mainline, every time an A220 replaces an E190 (which will happen 25 times) another narrow body can be added to Rouge even though technically mainline totals would be the same.
YYZLGA wrote:That's a loophole you could fly an A380 through. So it seems we could end up seeing Rouge replace a lot of domestic flying?
longhauler wrote:I don't like the concept of Rouge, but I acknowledge the reason for its existance. This gives Air Canada full capability of using (narrow body) Rouge to its fullest.
But what about us behind your back? WildcatYXU wrote:You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge.
longhauler wrote:WildcatYXU wrote:You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge.
Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.
I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.
I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.
aemoreira1981 wrote:workhorse wrote:The planes covered under this deal are currently registered TF-MOM, DAD (with sharklets), SON, and KID (without sharklets).
longhauler wrote:WildcatYXU wrote:You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge.
Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.
I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.
I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.
aemoreira1981 wrote:longhauler wrote:WildcatYXU wrote:You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge.
Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.
I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.
I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.
Aren't they also under different AOCs as well? Mainline (and Express) is AC, but Rouge is RV.
Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID (Skyliner)
Skyliner:
Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID
Airbus A321 -211 5733 C-GHPJ Air Canada regd 30jan19 prior delivery ex KEF ex TF-SON
danipawa wrote:Skyliner:
Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID
Airbus A321 -211 5733 C-GHPJ Air Canada regd 30jan19 prior delivery ex KEF ex TF-SON
So arriving home soon
