ben175
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ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:05 am

After months of rumours, NH has finally confirmed it will launch daily direct flights from Perth to Tokyo-Narita from September 1 next year.

Service to operate 7 x weekly with a 184 seat Boeing 787-8 aircraft. Schedule is as followed (flight numbers TBA)

NRT 1110 PER 2015
PER 2145 NRT 0825

Absolutely fantastic news for Perth and Western Australia. The new service is expected to bring in an additional 76,000 Japanese tourists a year.
The last time we had a direct service was QF's PER-NRT service on a 763, which was discontinued in 2010.

https://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/ana-to-start-direct-perthtokyo-flights-from-september/news-story/2a599c38dfc48edfd9dc09632be5876d
 
waoz1
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:09 am

ben175 wrote:
After months of rumours, NH has finally confirmed it will launch daily direct flights from Perth to Tokyo-Narita from September 1 next year.

Service to operate 7 x weekly with a 184 seat Boeing 787-8 aircraft. Schedule is as followed (flight numbers TBA)

NRT 1110 PER 2015
PER 2145 NRT 0825

Absolutely fantastic news for Perth and Western Australia. The new service is expected to bring in an additional 76,000 Japanese tourists a year.
The last time we had a direct service was QF's PER-NRT service on a 763, which was discontinued in 2010.

https://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/ana-to-start-direct-perthtokyo-flights-from-september/news-story/2a599c38dfc48edfd9dc09632be5876d


Glad its happening. QF missed out there, will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Hopefully it gets upgraded to a -9 tho flight times are really good.
 
jfk777
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:31 am

Outside of Melbourne and Sydney, Japan to Australia services seem almost none existent. If Canberra works for Qatar and Singapore is it too exotic for JAL or ANA ?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:41 am

jfk777 wrote:
Outside of Melbourne and Sydney, Japan to Australia services seem almost none existent. If Canberra works for Qatar and Singapore is it too exotic for JAL or ANA ?


"Works for QR and SQ" as in both having to fly there one-stop (QR, via SYD) or triangular routing (SQ, SIN-SYD-CBR-SIN)? SQ tried SIN-CBR-WLG and that went nowhere (Seriously, CBR is a tiny market). I would expect BNE getting another flight before CBR will even be mention.

Anyway, congrats to PER. I'm a little bit surprised that it's NH, not JL that will fly the route, but it's definitely a long time coming.

Next will be KE to ICN?
 
NTLDaz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:43 am

jfk777 wrote:
Outside of Melbourne and Sydney, Japan to Australia services seem almost none existent. If Canberra works for Qatar and Singapore is it too exotic for JAL or ANA ?


There are also flights from CNS and OOL to Japan and I think Brisbane. So once PER starts it'll be 6 Australian cities so not exactly almost non existent.

I'd give Canberra a 1000-1 shot. QR only fly there to get around bilateral restrictions.
 
smi0006
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:57 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Outside of Melbourne and Sydney, Japan to Australia services seem almost none existent. If Canberra works for Qatar and Singapore is it too exotic for JAL or ANA ?


"Works for QR and SQ" as in both having to fly there one-stop (QR, via SYD) or triangular routing (SQ, SIN-SYD-CBR-SIN)? SQ tried SIN-CBR-WLG and that went nowhere (Seriously, CBR is a tiny market). I would expect BNE getting another flight before CBR will even be mention.

Anyway, congrats to PER. I'm a little bit surprised that it's NH, not JL that will fly the route, but it's definitely a long time coming.

Next will be KE to ICN?


I doubt KE, they dropped MEL many years ago. I’d expect KE or OZ in MEL first. My thoughts would be MU to PVG next.

Surprised at such a low config, but pleased to see PER growing. Hoping for QF to JNB or CPT next!
 
ben175
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:08 am

I'd say an MU announcement to PVG is a matter of when, not if. They did tentatively announce "trial flights" but nothing eventuated - maybe this announcement will give them the kick they need to get the ball rolling.

I'm also surprised NH is jumping in straight to daily, which is a positive sign. Even though it's a low density configuration, the fact that this aircraft only carries slightly more passengers than a 737 means they can obtain the yields needed.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:17 am

The daily flight is on a 788, with under 200 seats to fill. It’s a good move to attract corporate traffic, and may be subsidised early on to provide some confidence in building the market.

As for MU, things have cooled on China-Australia expansion so not sure it will come anytime soon for PER. The appetite hasn’t exactly been great to service the WA market, with so much focus has been on SYD and MEL in particular.

PVG would be a solid addition though, but they seem in no rush to launch flights to PER.
 
hoons90
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:25 am

smi0006 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Next will be KE to ICN?


I doubt KE, they dropped MEL many years ago. I’d expect KE or OZ in MEL first. My thoughts would be MU to PVG next.


Australia is not the strongest market for KE, and has extreme seasonality (Nothing larger than an A330-300 during the off-peak season.) As such, I would be surprised if KE adds more service to Australia. When KE flew to MEL, I don't ever recall it being anything more than a 3x weekly A330 service.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:27 am

PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.
 
F100Flyer
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:47 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.
 
iflyabunch
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:57 am

Too bad the timing doesn’t connect with the majority of the westbound flights from the US that land around 2-4 pm. I would’ve thought they would try to capture that market too.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:29 am

hoons90 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Next will be KE to ICN?


I doubt KE, they dropped MEL many years ago. I’d expect KE or OZ in MEL first. My thoughts would be MU to PVG next.


Australia is not the strongest market for KE, and has extreme seasonality (Nothing larger than an A330-300 during the off-peak season.) As such, I would be surprised if KE adds more service to Australia. When KE flew to MEL, I don't ever recall it being anything more than a 3x weekly A330 service.


I didn't realized that there's not even a ICN-MEL flight right now. Not too surprising myself (S. Korea-Australia traffic is pretty much all O&D, similar to Japan-Australia).

F100Flyer wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.


Or HKG (Ok, not DEN and ATL, but all the other one are one-stop on CX already).
 
NTLDaz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:34 am

F100Flyer wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.


I don't think people realise that going to east coast USA from PER via ME is a legitimate way to travel

Yes it's further than via HKG but either way is a helluva trip.

West Coast USA is a different story though.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:37 am

I wonder what's behind this...it'll be near 100% local given the NRT->PER schedule. Is there a mining traffic to Tokyo?
F100Flyer wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.

Plus it doesn't connect roundtrip on NH.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I wonder what's behind this...it'll be near 100% local given the NRT->PER schedule. Is there a mining traffic to Tokyo?


From Japanese news source:
https://www.sankei.com/economy/news/181 ... 03-n1.html

Accord to Mr. Katanozaka (President of ANA), it's definitely targeting business traffic, especially in the mining sector, to/from Perth. He also expect Japan-Australia traffic to increase as TPP comes into play. It also targets any Western Australian tourists going to Japan (Hokkaido is specifically mention in the article).

The mining-related traffic I would say would be Japanese businesses investing in WA.

BTW, it's NH881 from NRT to PER, and NH882 from PER to NRT:
https://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/163470

MaverickM11 wrote:
Plus it doesn't connect roundtrip on NH.


Indeed. Pretty much all NH N. America flight arrives at NRT around 3-4pm, and leaves 5-6pm. Which means around 19 hours layover on one side, and something like 9 hrs layover on the way back.
 
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qf789
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:51 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I wonder what's behind this...it'll be near 100% local given the NRT->PER schedule. Is there a mining traffic to Tokyo?
F100Flyer wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.

Plus it doesn't connect roundtrip on NH.


FWIW Japan is Western Australia's second biggest exporter from the state, coming in after China at number 1. While the mining sector plays a role here, particularly in Iron ore, the car industry is another sector that will benefit considering the amount of Japanese made cars there are here, it will also attract new business in agriculture and tourism. I see the crayfish industry (rock lobsters) eyeing the Japanese market with direct flights. Tourism will play a major role at both ends, those from WA to Japan and vice versa. Since the start of the Quokka route earlier this year there has been particular interest from visitors here in the Quokka and I believe that may be front and centre of tourism promotions along with other destinations within WA

The other thing I would like to see from this announcement is some sort of codeshare arrangement between NH and VA, I think both could benefit from such an arrangement
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a19901213
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:56 am

I work in a Japanese firm with huge influence in regards to iron ore in WA and people would be surprised how huge the business demand there is between WA and Japan.

As long as they are able to sell partial seats to inbound tourist from Japan I’m pretty sure business demand and outbound tourist would take care of the rest.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:33 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I wonder what's behind this...it'll be near 100% local given the NRT->PER schedule. Is there a mining traffic to Tokyo?
F100Flyer wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.


...majority of which already exists with EK via DXB.

Plus it doesn't connect roundtrip on NH.


I'd be very surprised if connecting traffic was much of a consideration.

Whether it works or not is something we'll see. Let's not forget that this will connect the 4th largest city in in one of the World's richest countries with the largest city in one of the World's richest countries.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:01 am

Sorry but I don't see it.
Granted, a B788 is not a lot of capacity but daily service is overkill especially with lack of connections. 4-5 weekly is more than sufficient and even that is doubtful
I also don't see their new HND-VIE flight working out, what a waste of a slot when BRU and DUS are craving for an upgrade to HND.
ANA is in full expansion mode, but it looks mostly random and not thought through.
 
TC957
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:40 am

Think QF missed a trick by not doing a PER - NRT flight of their own and re-instating the dropped service.
I expect some more new NH flights in 2019 since once the A380's are established on the HNL route 2 789's and a 777 will be freed up. Perhaps AMS & ARN ?
 
melpax
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:46 am

qf789 wrote:
the car industry is another sector that will benefit considering the amount of Japanese made cars there are here,


Wouldn't be much auto-industry traffic to PER. Toyota, Nissan, Honda & Mazda all have their HQ's in MEL, while Mitsubishi is in ADL. Even with the end of car making, most of the Auto industry is still run out of MEL, PER is all about mining.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
c933103
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:09 am

melpax wrote:
qf789 wrote:
the car industry is another sector that will benefit considering the amount of Japanese made cars there are here,


Wouldn't be much auto-industry traffic to PER. Toyota, Nissan, Honda & Mazda all have their HQ's in MEL, while Mitsubishi is in ADL. Even with the end of car making, most of the Auto industry is still run out of MEL, PER is all about mining.

That said, there're still no direct flight from ADL to Japan?
And given the emphasis on tourism to Hokkaido, isn't it kinda strange that there are still no flight from Australia to Hokkaido direct?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:25 am

Daily from the get go, and without US connections? I am very skeptical.

IIRC, PER can't even sustain daily year-round flights to Mainland China.

Cheers,

C.
 
raylee67
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:00 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
PER becomes a one change of plane route from Boston nyc dc ATL ord dia sea yyz- I wonder if that would amount contribute to any increase in traffic.

You can already fly to PER with one stop at HKG via CX from BOS, NYC, DC, ORD, SEA (starting soon) and YYZ.

And I think ANA doesn't fly to ATL and YYZ. It flies to SJC and IAH though.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
waoz1
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:02 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Daily from the get go, and without US connections? I am very skeptical.

IIRC, PER can't even sustain daily year-round flights to Mainland China.

Cheers,

C.


Not sure what point your trying to make.
WA people dont go to Gangzhou for a holiday to transit to somewhere else maybe. Its a completely different market. Japan on the otherhand there are a lot tourists in both directions and business ties. Im not sure NH would start a service without doing a business case. Obviously they feel daily can work.

Its a bit like saying daily flight to johannesburg shouldnt work because theres a three times a week mauritius flight.

Just cannot see the logic in the proposition.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:33 am

waoz1 wrote:
Not sure what point your trying to make. Japan ... a lot tourists in both directions and business ties.

There are greater business and tourism ties between WA and China, than there are between WA and Japan.

China has, compared to Japan:
- 3-4x the amount of two-way trade with WA
- 2x the amount of out-bound tourists to WA

Yet, I'm surprised that Japan can supposedly sustain a daily year-round flight to WA, but Mainland China can't.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I know it may not be as simple as that, though. I wish NH the best of luck.

Cheers,

C.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:18 pm

ben175 wrote:
Absolutely fantastic news for Perth and Western Australia. The new service is expected to bring in an additional 76,000 Japanese tourists a year.

How? With 184 seats daily they cannot transport more than 67,160 people a year. And I don't think all business class passengers are tourists. Something doesn't add up here. Maybe the stated seat count is incorrect?
 
MartijnNL
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:28 pm

iflyabunch wrote:
Too bad the timing doesn’t connect with the majority of the westbound flights from the US that land around 2-4 pm. I would’ve thought they would try to capture that market too.

Then the flight schedule would have to look something like this:

NRT 1710 PER 0215
PER 0345 NRT 1425

Who wants to arrive or leave in the middle of the night?
 
soectre99
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:45 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Sorry but I don't see it.
Granted, a B788 is not a lot of capacity but daily service is overkill


It's not overkill. I have a fortnightly to monthly commute Perth-Tokyo, normally via SIN or HKG (most ex PER flights are at capacity). A huge amount of passengers that I have chatted to are employed by INPEX or Mitsui and fly premium. If you do some research, there is a massive amount of Japanese corporate interest in Western Australia.

The NH analysts have done their research and DD. Anything but a rash move IMO.
 
SeoulIncheon
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:25 pm

soectre99 wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
Sorry but I don't see it.
Granted, a B788 is not a lot of capacity but daily service is overkill


It's not overkill. I have a fortnightly to monthly commute Perth-Tokyo, normally via SIN or HKG (most ex PER flights are at capacity). A huge amount of passengers that I have chatted to are employed by INPEX or Mitsui and fly premium. If you do some research, there is a massive amount of Japanese corporate interest in Western Australia.

The NH analysts have done their research and DD. Anything but a rash move IMO.


I second soectre99's opinion. NH is also one of the most conservative airlines in Asia in terms of expansion. I'm sure NH did a lot of research before launching - and decided that the market is definitely there.

I wonder how this route will perform - NRT is a bit too east for Kangaroo route to PER and bit too north for US connections. Looks like the route will be O&D heavy with some connections from Korea.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:00 pm

SeoulIncheon wrote:
I wonder how this route will perform - NRT is a bit too east for Kangaroo route to PER and bit too north for US connections. Looks like the route will be O&D heavy with some connections from Korea.


Except the outbound flight doesn't connect well with flights from S. Korea, either. The only early flights (Arrived before 1000) are on 7C and TW. NH has a early flight from Seoul, but that goes to HND (from GMP). The first OZ flight to NRT doesn't arrive until 1120.

No luck from PUS either - unless somehow you can book a ticket on JL and transit to NH. Even that's really close also (The JL flight arrives at NRT at 0945).

The flight does connect from ITM, NGO, CTS, FUK, and SDJ on the outbound leg, although for inbound it's a long wait for ITM and NGO (Probably quicker to just hop on N'EX->Shinkansen). The outbound leg doesn't really connect to anything internationally, though (The only early morning arrivals into NRT are from SE Asia, and for those cities it's a lot quicker to just connect at SIN).

In another word, it's definitely targeting Japanese O&D, specifically, all the Japanese business interest in the mining sector based around PER, and perhaps Australian outbound tourist traffic here and there (Those are just not that big in number), but not much else. Ultimately, it's still just a 184 seats 788, which is not really that hard to fill up.
 
klakzky123
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:17 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Daily from the get go, and without US connections? I am very skeptical.

IIRC, PER can't even sustain daily year-round flights to Mainland China.

Cheers,

C.


Does anyone go to Australia from the US via TYO anymore? The Chinese and Southeast Asian airlines almost always offer a cheaper product and the American and Australian/NZ airlines offer options directly to Australia. Northwest couldn't even make the fifth freedom flights to Australia work back in the day because no one from the US wanted to go to Sydney via Japan.

This has to be timed to maximize O&D from Tokyo. The flights from the US come in the afternoon so you'd have to fly later in the day and arrive in Perth in the middle of the night to make connections work. You'd lose a lot of local traffic if you tried that.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:28 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Sorry but I don't see it.
Granted, a B788 is not a lot of capacity but daily service is overkill especially with lack of connections. 4-5 weekly is more than sufficient and even that is doubtful
I also don't see their new HND-VIE flight working out, what a waste of a slot when BRU and DUS are craving for an upgrade to HND.
ANA is in full expansion mode, but it looks mostly random and not thought through.

Of course, HND-VIE can work excellent! VIE attracts a lot more premium passengers than BRU and DUS, besides VIE is one of the most important diplomatic capitals in the world and especially Vienna is one of the most visited cities in the world, the amount of Japanese tourists visiting Austria is important
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
NTLDaz
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:47 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Daily from the get go, and without US connections? I am very skeptical.

IIRC, PER can't even sustain daily year-round flights to Mainland China.

Cheers,

C.


Does anyone go to Australia from the US via TYO anymore? The Chinese and Southeast Asian airlines almost always offer a cheaper product and the American and Australian/NZ airlines offer options directly to Australia. Northwest couldn't even make the fifth freedom flights to Australia work back in the day because no one from the US wanted to go to Sydney via Japan.

This has to be timed to maximize O&D from Tokyo. The flights from the US come in the afternoon so you'd have to fly later in the day and arrive in Perth in the middle of the night to make connections work. You'd lose a lot of local traffic if you tried that.


Having flown NW to NYC in 1993 from SYD I can tell you this flight was never about US - Australia traffic. My wife and I were about the only non Japanese on the flight up to Osaka. It was all about capturing Japanese traffic. The flight was doomed when the Australian Government put limits on the amount of seats which could be sold Aus-Japan.

It was a 742 to Osaka and then a 744 to JFK. Unfortunately we got diverted to MSP due to a massive snow storm down the whole US East Coast.
 
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Velocity7
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:12 pm

qf789 wrote:

The other thing I would like to see from this announcement is some sort of codeshare arrangement between NH and VA, I think both could benefit from such an arrangement


I agree. Japan is a bit of a 'blackhole' in VA's partner line up with the only real option (outside of their Chinese partners) being SQ via SIN which is just a bit too far west from the East Coast. Granted from PER it likely makes a bit more sense. A VA/NH codeshare would be a good add.
NH offer a solid product. Good to see some expansion from them in Australia
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:15 pm

NH flies daily to SEA, SJC and some European cities with 788, I strongly doubt the traffic to PER will ever be the same compare to those destinations. All Asian carriers basically serve MEL or BNE before coming to PER.
 
rbavfan
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:34 pm

waoz1 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
After months of rumours, NH has finally confirmed it will launch daily direct flights from Perth to Tokyo-Narita from September 1 next year.

Service to operate 7 x weekly with a 184 seat Boeing 787-8 aircraft. Schedule is as followed (flight numbers TBA)

NRT 1110 PER 2015
PER 2145 NRT 0825

Absolutely fantastic news for Perth and Western Australia. The new service is expected to bring in an additional 76,000 Japanese tourists a year.
The last time we had a direct service was QF's PER-NRT service on a 763, which was discontinued in 2010.

https://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/ana-to-start-direct-perthtokyo-flights-from-september/news-story/2a599c38dfc48edfd9dc09632be5876d


Glad its happening. QF missed out there, will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Hopefully it gets upgraded to a -9 tho flight times are really good.


-8/-9 no real difference other than more seats. If the -8 works best, all the better.
 
c933103
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Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:21 pm

NTLDaz wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Daily from the get go, and without US connections? I am very skeptical.

IIRC, PER can't even sustain daily year-round flights to Mainland China.

Cheers,

C.


Does anyone go to Australia from the US via TYO anymore? The Chinese and Southeast Asian airlines almost always offer a cheaper product and the American and Australian/NZ airlines offer options directly to Australia. Northwest couldn't even make the fifth freedom flights to Australia work back in the day because no one from the US wanted to go to Sydney via Japan.

This has to be timed to maximize O&D from Tokyo. The flights from the US come in the afternoon so you'd have to fly later in the day and arrive in Perth in the middle of the night to make connections work. You'd lose a lot of local traffic if you tried that.


Having flown NW to NYC in 1993 from SYD I can tell you this flight was never about US - Australia traffic. My wife and I were about the only non Japanese on the flight up to Osaka. It was all about capturing Japanese traffic. The flight was doomed when the Australian Government put limits on the amount of seats which could be sold Aus-Japan.

It was a 742 to Osaka and then a 744 to JFK. Unfortunately we got diverted to MSP due to a massive snow storm down the whole US East Coast.

I thought it was the Japanese government that say no more than 50% non-transiting passengers
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
GRJGeorge
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:51 pm

Could NH connect at PER with alliance partner SAA to JNB?
I know it's a bit of a detour, but could be option
 
a19901213
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:33 pm

It’s definitely not a easy route but worth a shot, I believe this is what ANA has concluded in their internal review.

ANA has made clear in their mid term business strategy that they are continuously aiming to increase their share in international market.

ANA tends to fly to the places that has either 1. Japanese corporate demand or 2. Japanese community first.

I also believe they must be getting subsidy from WA government so how much inbound tourist they can develop in Japan is crucial to maintain this route.
 
B1168
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:35 pm

The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?
 
a19901213
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:59 pm

B1168 wrote:
The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?


China is really a different scenario. China is so big their demand is spread out across the country, if you combine these business demand yes they are huge but they don't really all come from a same city.
Hence CX is so success on making money from transiting passenger from China to Australia(At least in the past), it's way easier to transit in HK instead of flying to PVG or CAN to go abroad.

Tokyo on the other hand is totally different story, Japan is notoriously renowned for centralising too much resources in Tokyo.
All Top 3 Japanese banks and top 4 international trading companies (which invested heavily in WA) are all based in Tokyo, business demand is huge.

Having said that it's still not an easy route to operate but at least it worth a shot.
 
LondonXtreme
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:00 pm

a19901213 wrote:
It’s definitely not a easy route but worth a shot, I believe this is what ANA has concluded in their internal review.

ANA has made clear in their mid term business strategy that they are continuously aiming to increase their share in international market.

ANA tends to fly to the places that has either 1. Japanese corporate demand or 2. Japanese community first.

I also believe they must be getting subsidy from WA government so how much inbound tourist they can develop in Japan is crucial to maintain this route.

The NH aircraft is premium heavily configured, and the tourists are mostly price sensitive. So, my question is that is there enough business traffic to fill the front cabin of NH's 787 daily between Japan and WA?
 
B1168
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:07 pm

a19901213 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?


China is really a different scenario. China is so big their demand is spread out across the country, if you combine these business demand yes they are huge but they don't really all come from a same city.
Hence CX is so success on making money from transiting passenger from China to Australia(At least in the past), it's way easier to transit in HK instead of flying to PVG or CAN to go abroad.

Having said that it's still not an easy route to operate but at least it worth a shot.


PVG doesn’t have a flight to PER... nor do they have flight to CHC and ADL. AF/KL could feel that pain for ignoring DL ignoring CZ.
Fairly, CAN is much friendlier for transfer operated by CZ, but not if you are connecting flights in different itineraries.
That answer is helpful. However, is the sudden influx for second tier Chinese cities to Australia a part of the contributor?
Let’s admit, the concentration of resources are completely true, though.
 
a19901213
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:09 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
It’s definitely not a easy route but worth a shot, I believe this is what ANA has concluded in their internal review.

ANA has made clear in their mid term business strategy that they are continuously aiming to increase their share in international market.

ANA tends to fly to the places that has either 1. Japanese corporate demand or 2. Japanese community first.

I also believe they must be getting subsidy from WA government so how much inbound tourist they can develop in Japan is crucial to maintain this route.

The NH aircraft is premium heavily configured, and the tourists are mostly price sensitive. So, my question is that is there enough business traffic to fill the front cabin of NH's 787 daily between Japan and WA?


I guess that's the thing that we can't really know until the route commenced.
Lots of people from my HQ in Tokyo travel often to WA regularly and as far as I know people in BHP travel even more than us to Tokyo but whether these demands are sufficient, I have no idea.
 
waoz1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:19 pm

B1168 wrote:
The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?


It has little to do with China, flights to Japan.
However most west aussies would fly SQ or CX before CZ and that it is what it is.

As for sustaining barely one flight a day you should only be referring to CZ. Last time i checked Hong Kong is in China and during peak goes double daily.

Me thinks some people are trying to make something out of nothing.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:26 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
NH flies daily to SEA, SJC and some European cities with 788, I strongly doubt the traffic to PER will ever be the same compare to those destinations. All Asian carriers basically serve MEL or BNE before coming to PER.


Let's not forget that even though Pert is geographically isolated it is a fairly large city in one of the richest countries on Earth.

ANA obviously think they can make it work. Time will tell.
 
B1168
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:30 pm

waoz1 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?


It has little to do with China, flights to Japan.
However most west aussies would fly SQ or CX before CZ and that it is what it is.

As for sustaining barely one flight a day you should only be referring to CZ. Last time i checked Hong Kong is in China and during peak goes double daily.

Me thinks some people are trying to make something out of nothing.


SQ was forgotten by me. I shouldn’t, since there are lots of flights to both China and Australia. Are there any visa-free policy that exempt Chinese nationals’ visas when transiting in Singapore? That is a fundamental issue that can change regular people’s decisions, because they would rather transit within Australia instead for the trouble.

Also, my apologies for failing to include “mainland” before China.

One question: what’s made out of nothing?
 
waoz1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: ANA launches NRT-PER

Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:02 am

B1168 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
The problem remains. How come China has 3x demand yet is barely sustaining 1 daily (iirc, that shall start next year)? Is it just because they chose HKG for more flights, or did they chose to make use of those insanely cheap subsidized flights from 2 tier cities?


It has little to do with China, flights to Japan.
However most west aussies would fly SQ or CX before CZ and that it is what it is.

As for sustaining barely one flight a day you should only be referring to CZ. Last time i checked Hong Kong is in China and during peak goes double daily.

Me thinks some people are trying to make something out of nothing.


SQ was forgotten by me. I shouldn’t, since there are lots of flights to both China and Australia. Are there any visa-free policy that exempt Chinese nationals’ visas when transiting in Singapore? That is a fundamental issue that can change regular people’s decisions, because they would rather transit within Australia instead for the trouble.

Also, my apologies for failing to include “mainland” before China.

One question: what’s made out of nothing?


Sorry the last one was more making a point wasn't directed at you personally. However there are some as soon as the word Perth comes up there has to be a negative spin on it.
Why CZ even came up is beyond me we didnt have the same argument when Perth-London started.

Seems they know more about it than ANA, if there wasn't a business case or demand it wouldn't be happening at all.

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