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trexel94
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MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:41 pm

I stumbled across an archived news letter from 1999 with the topic about MCI and Lufthansa representatives meeting in Germany to discuss potential flight opportunities to Kansas City. Yes, i'm well aware airlines and airports discuss things on a regular basis with nothing resulting but it still caught my eye. The first meet was a bit of a dud but a second meet in 2000 garnered more interest. However since 2000 I haven't come across any updates regarding this.

Of course this was nearly 20 years ago and the aviation world was much different. However, with the success of Icelandair, the growth in population and economy of the Kansas City metro and with Frankfurt still being a top target city by MCI officials I wonder if Lufthansa would still be interested? Maybe not through LH but perhaps by Condor? KC seems to fit their profile.

Funny thing. I actually remember this topic years ago in 2000 when I was 6 at the time and overheard a few passengers discussing how Lufthansa was looking at flying to Kansas City. Even though I was excited by the possibility I thought to my 6 year old self, "where would they park such a large plane?" lol!

In addition, Jetblue considered MCI in 2003. I'm disappointed this never worked out as they would have done well particularly to FLL and MCO but B6 flying to Kansas City seems to have more traction than LH and I have faith they'll eventually land in the City of Fountains :)

If anyone would be willing to shed some light on these subjects it would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ocus5.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ily11.html
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:48 pm

Meeting with JetBlue in 2003 isnt that surprising. Meeting with LH in 1999 is. Perhaps they were inspired by KLM on AMS-MEM.
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evank516
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:00 pm

I don't think B6 in MCI is very far off. You'll most likely see IND first, but MCI and STL probably won't be far behind. They'll probably be flights to BOS though.
 
Jshank83
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:04 pm

Airlines are talking to airports all the time about service. I wouldn't be surprised if they have been talking to these airlines constantly for a long time. It doesn't mean they will come anytime soon. I would expect Condor before LH though. LH doesn't really go into smaller markets.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:16 pm

Does the Condor 757-300 have enough range to fly to MCI?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:29 pm

evank516 wrote:
I don't think B6 in MCI is very far off. You'll most likely see IND first, but MCI and STL probably won't be far behind. They'll probably be flights to BOS though.


I think a lot of us would have been surprised in 2003 to be told that in 15 years MCI would still not be on the B6 route map. Or STL, CMH, CVG, MKE, etc.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
strangeplanes
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:43 pm

I can confirm that LH officials toured MCI a few months back.
Last edited by strangeplanes on Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
paullam
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:43 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the Condor 757-300 have enough range to fly to MCI?


No, not even the -200 could reach that far.
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strangeplanes
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:44 pm

I can confirm that LH officials toured MCI a few months back (2018).
 
trexel94
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:45 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the Condor 757-300 have enough range to fly to MCI?


I don't think Condor flies their 753s across the pond. Plus their 767s have fewer seats.
 
evank516
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:06 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I don't think B6 in MCI is very far off. You'll most likely see IND first, but MCI and STL probably won't be far behind. They'll probably be flights to BOS though.


I think a lot of us would have been surprised in 2003 to be told that in 15 years MCI would still not be on the B6 route map. Or STL, CMH, CVG, MKE, etc.


Well, yes and no. Back then if you saw jetBlue enter these markets it would have been from JFK. Now with the route network they have with big hubs/focus cities in BOS, NYC, FLL, and MCO, they have more to play with. Back then they barely had much going on in BOS IIRC.
 
Hirnie
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:14 pm

Don`t want to offend anybody here but it is unbelievable how many people in this forum still think that Condor belongs to LH. For many, many years now, Condor belongs to Thomas Cook and not to LH. In fact they are competitors on many routes.
 
jplatts
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:16 pm

trexel94 wrote:
In addition, Jetblue considered MCI in 2003. I'm disappointed this never worked out as they would have done well particularly to FLL and MCO but B6 flying to Kansas City seems to have more traction than LH and I have faith they'll eventually land in the City of Fountains :)


WN had added MCI-BOS nonstop service in 2013 and MCI-LGA nonstop service in 2015, and WN adding MCI-BOS and MCI-LGA nonstop service has lessened the need for B6 to start service out of MCI.
 
trexel94
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:29 pm

Does anyone know what the PDEW is between MCI and FRA? I know that overall PDEW for Europe is around 300 per day which goes up to 500 during summer but i've read around here that Condor for example launched MSY with less than 50 Germany bound passengers.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:48 pm

MCI can talk to anybody. Remember that "China Cargo HUB" STL was "supposed" to get? Whatever they can land, good for them, but don't hold your breath.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
F27500
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:27 pm

I could see some B6 BOS, JFK, MCO and maybe a FLL flight.
 
krsw757
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:04 am

Hirnie wrote:
Don`t want to offend anybody here but it is unbelievable how many people in this forum still think that Condor belongs to LH. For many, many years now, Condor belongs to Thomas Cook and not to LH. In fact they are competitors on many routes.



I don’t think anyone came close to stating they were. Just simply saying if there were to be a German carrier to fly to MCI it would be Condor, not Lufthansa.
 
midway7
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:28 pm

I believe for some time, in the early 2000's, STL actually had a gate built out for B6, with NY ads and all. Some type of welcoming stunt. This was one of the new E gates, along the former D gates, that has since been taken by Southwest.
 
evank516
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:10 pm

jplatts wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
In addition, Jetblue considered MCI in 2003. I'm disappointed this never worked out as they would have done well particularly to FLL and MCO but B6 flying to Kansas City seems to have more traction than LH and I have faith they'll eventually land in the City of Fountains :)


WN had added MCI-BOS nonstop service in 2013 and MCI-LGA nonstop service in 2015, and WN adding MCI-BOS and MCI-LGA nonstop service has lessened the need for B6 to start service out of MCI.


DL was flying LGA-MCI well before WN entered the market. They were flying JFK-MCI for a while too. One could also say that there was no need for WN to add the flights as well but they did. I don't think WN has anything to do with what B6 wants to do. If anything they would capture a different market.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:30 pm

midway7 wrote:
I believe for some time, in the early 2000's, STL actually had a gate built out for B6, with NY ads and all. Some type of welcoming stunt. This was one of the new E gates, along the former D gates, that has since been taken by Southwest.



They were 24 hours from announcing it.

Shenanigans at the airport with fees scuttled it.
 
jplatts
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

evank516 wrote:
DL was flying LGA-MCI well before WN entered the market. They were flying JFK-MCI for a while too. One could also say that there was no need for WN to add the flights as well but they did. I don't think WN has anything to do with what B6 wants to do. If anything they would capture a different market.


WN already operates some nonstop routes out of LGA, EWR, and ISP that are in competition with B6 nonstop routes out of JFK, including LGA-ATL, LGA-MDW, LGA-DEN, LGA-MSY, LGA-TPA, EWR-AUS, EWR-MDW, EWR-DEN, EWR-MCO, EWR-OAK, EWR-PHX, EWR-SAN, ISP-FLL, ISP-MCO, ISP-TPA, and ISP-PBI.

I agree that B6 would capture a different market from WN if B6 enters MCI, even though any nonstop routes that would be added out of B6 out of MCI would be in competition with WN nonstop routes out of MCI. B6 would also be targeting frequent flyers in the Northeast who prefer to fly on B6 over the big 4 US carriers if it adds service to MCI.
 
evank516
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
midway7 wrote:
I believe for some time, in the early 2000's, STL actually had a gate built out for B6, with NY ads and all. Some type of welcoming stunt. This was one of the new E gates, along the former D gates, that has since been taken by Southwest.



They were 24 hours from announcing it.

Shenanigans at the airport with fees scuttled it.


They would have axed it back then anyway just like they did with CMH and BNA.
 
jplatts
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:26 pm

evank516 wrote:
They would have axed it back then anyway just like they did with CMH and BNA.


Even though B6 had previously pulled out of BNA and ATL, B6 had reentered BNA in 2016 and ATL in 2017.

CMH is the only former B6 destination in the contiguous U.S. that B6 hasn't re-entered. B6 will also be pulling out of IAD on January 8th, but B6 will continue to serve DCA and BWI in the Baltimore/Washington market after B6 pulls out of IAD.
 
pmanni1
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:34 pm

This summer DL will have 2x daily to BOS and WN 1x daily. Doubtful MCI could support a 3rd carrier. WN will have 5x daily STL-BOS and not sure B6 would want to deal with that either.
 
evank516
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:47 pm

jplatts wrote:
evank516 wrote:
They would have axed it back then anyway just like they did with CMH and BNA.


Even though B6 had previously pulled out of BNA and ATL, B6 had reentered BNA in 2016 and ATL in 2017.

CMH is the only former B6 destination in the contiguous U.S. that B6 hasn't re-entered. B6 will also be pulling out of IAD on January 8th, but B6 will continue to serve DCA and BWI in the Baltimore/Washington market after B6 pulls out of IAD.


Yes, I know. They would have probably done the same with STL as they did back in 2008 with CMH and BNA.

B6 is yanking 3 destinations from their route map after January 7 (DAB, IAD, STX) so your statement will soon be inaccurate.
 
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kczombie
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:49 pm

MCI is due for a total demo and rebuild.

https://www.flykci.com/newsroom/terminal-master-plan/

I personally will hate to see it go....
 
OSL777FLYER
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:13 pm

trexel94 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does the Condor 757-300 have enough range to fly to MCI?


I don't think Condor flies their 753s across the pond. Plus their 767s have fewer seats.


As far as I know, Condor flies to Halifax, Canda with their B753s.

As some have mentioned, Condor is not part of LH anymore. LH could maybe look for a seasonal service? Either with own metal or Eurowings. Might choose own metal since Eurowings is not really well known in the US.

As far as going back in time. I am not sure, but I could definitely see a scenario where LH would talk to MCI about services. In 1999 I believe MCI was still a large hub for TWA and they were not in an alliance. In fact Star Alliance was just 2 years old, OW was "born" that year and Skyteam formed in 2000, so what might have been............
 
Jshank83
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:11 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:

As far as going back in time. I am not sure, but I could definitely see a scenario where LH would talk to MCI about services. In 1999 I believe MCI was still a large hub for TWA and they were not in an alliance. In fact Star Alliance was just 2 years old, OW was "born" that year and Skyteam formed in 2000, so what might have been............


I am pretty sure TWA moved the hub from MCI to STL in the early 80s.
 
Dominion301
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Re: MCI had talks with Lufthansa in 1999? Jetblue in 2003?

Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:29 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does the Condor 757-300 have enough range to fly to MCI?


I don't think Condor flies their 753s across the pond. Plus their 767s have fewer seats.


As far as I know, Condor flies to Halifax, Canda with their B753s.

As some have mentioned, Condor is not part of LH anymore. LH could maybe look for a seasonal service? Either with own metal or Eurowings. Might choose own metal since Eurowings is not really well known in the US.

As far as going back in time. I am not sure, but I could definitely see a scenario where LH would talk to MCI about services. In 1999 I believe MCI was still a large hub for TWA and they were not in an alliance. In fact Star Alliance was just 2 years old, OW was "born" that year and Skyteam formed in 2000, so what might have been............


Occasional subs aside, DE has always operated 763s to YHZ. In fact YHZ-FRA is increasing this summer to 5x weekly.

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