https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

Maybe covers adaptations to land-based power generation apps, off-shore oil rigs, ship-board power plants, etc?

Revelation wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

Maybe covers adaptations to land-based power generation apps, off-shore oil rigs, ship-board power plants, etc?

No just engines for the A330., all built in Derby England.

RB211trent wrote:

Revelation wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

Maybe covers adaptations to land-based power generation apps, off-shore oil rigs, ship-board power plants, etc?

No just engines for the A330., all built in Derby England.

Yes, I was just there in October.

Turns out one of my relatives works there.

Unfortunately we couldn't go in for "show and tell", he says that isn't allowed except on special family days.

He works on machines that make the turbine blades, so he's been kept very busy lately!

RB211trent wrote:

No just engines for the A330, all built in Derby England.

So, the T700 is second only to the GE90 in terms of one make of engine on one widebody jet airliner. And that includes all GE90s from the -76 to the -115. Not bad for the first RR engine to get on an Airbus.

Revelation wrote:

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Without comparable numbers for other makes / models, is it out of line?

Perhaps some poetic licence on 'deliveries' (excludes / includes development engines)? Destroyed in testing? Worn out (the engine has been flying commercially for 20 plus years)? Airbus hacks? Has a canny customer negotiated a buy X get Y free deal?

Perhaps a contributor at RR can provide a breakdown of the 2,000.

PM wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

No just engines for the A330, all built in Derby England.

So, the T700 is second only to the GE90 in terms of one make of engine on one widebody jet airliner. And that includes all GE90s from the -76 to the -115. Not bad for the first RR engine to get on an Airbus.

Slight difference though, as any T700 can go on any RR A330 where the GE90-115 variant is basically a different engine from the early model.

RB211trent wrote:

PM wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

No just engines for the A330, all built in Derby England.

So, the T700 is second only to the GE90 in terms of one make of engine on one widebody jet airliner. And that includes all GE90s from the -76 to the -115. Not bad for the first RR engine to get on an Airbus.

Slight difference though, as any T700 can go on any RR A330 where the GE90-115 variant is basically a different engine from the early model.

I thought I'd leave that for someone else to point out.

smartplane wrote:

Revelation wrote:

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Without comparable numbers for other makes / models, is it out of line?

Perhaps some poetic licence on 'deliveries' (excludes / includes development engines)? Destroyed in testing? Worn out (the engine has been flying commercially for 20 plus years)? Airbus hacks? Has a canny customer negotiated a buy X get Y free deal?

Perhaps a contributor at RR can provide a breakdown of the 2,000.

The 2000 are purely production engines, some obviously have been scrapped due to in service events or parted out but not many. The first production engine is still flying. Although it’s probably like triggers broom for people in the uk.

RB211trent wrote:

all built in Derby England.

Good luck getting directions there if you're a speaker of American English, though!

ScottB wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

all built in Derby England.

Good luck getting directions there if you're a speaker of American English, though!

Even more luck is needed if one is an American driving a 'hire car' in the area, I should know.

I had to do a 'suicide squeeze' between a bus blocking one side of the road and oncoming traffic on the other.

I have to say I nearly shat myself after that one.

Also I can tell you taking the last bus out of town on a weekend (party) night was a pretty crazy experience.

I hung out with my cousin for a week and I could understand him and all his mates just fine.

I met many of them at several very enjoyable pub sessions.

The only place I was truly lost language-wise is when we went in to a auto parts store and he was talking with the guy at the counter.

Lord I didn't understand a single thing the other guy was saying.

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

At work.

That is a high ratio. About one spare for 8 in service is normal for Pratt.

Lightsaber

Revelation wrote:

ScottB wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

all built in Derby England.

Good luck getting directions there if you're a speaker of American English, though!

Even more luck is needed if one is an American driving a 'hire car' in the area, I should know.

I had to do a 'suicide squeeze' between a bus blocking one side of the road and oncoming traffic on the other.

I have to say I nearly shat myself after that one.

Also I can tell you taking the last bus out of town on a weekend (party) night was a pretty crazy experience.

I hung out with my cousin for a week and I could understand him and all his mates just fine.

I met many of them at several very enjoyable pub sessions.

The only place I was truly lost language-wise is when we went in to a auto parts store and he was talking with the guy at the counter.

Lord I didn't understand a single thing the other guy was saying.

I hop you and a Wonderfull time Though. I must say, I love the British humor. Awesome you know someone who works at RR.

LewisNEO wrote:

I hop you and a Wonderfull time Though. I must say, I love the British humor. Awesome you know someone who works at RR.

Thanks! It was great to hang out with my cousin and get the local's view of life.

Revelation wrote:

The only place I was truly lost language-wise is when we went in to a auto parts store and he was talking with the guy at the counter.

Lord I didn't understand a single thing the other guy was saying.

Well I had a slightly simpler intent in that the pronunciation of "Derby" is different in New England as opposed to Old England...

ScottB wrote:

Well I had a slightly simpler intent in that the pronunciation of "Derby" is different in New England as opposed to Old England...

Yes, that went over my head by a mile!

I think there's a good reason for it.

My father and his two sisters fled post-WW2 Europe at about the same time.

Fate took his two sisters to Derby, England whereas it took my dad to about a dozen and a half miles away from Derby, CT, USA.

I learned to switch pronunciations depending on who I was talking to at the time.

Therefore the whole Derby/Darby/whatever pronunciation thing is something I sorted out decades ago.

Revelation wrote:

My father and his two sisters fled post-WW2 Europe at about the same time.

Fate took his two sisters to Derby, England whereas it took my dad to about a dozen and a half miles away from Derby, CT, USA.

I learned to switch pronunciations depending on who I was talking to at the time.

So the whole Derby/Darby/whatever pronunciation thing is something I sorted out decades ago.

So I mainly know this because I have friends in Derby, CT, USA, and I had set Siri to use the U.K. English voice just for fun. U.K. English Siri has NO idea where "Durby" is!

ScottB wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

all built in Derby England.

Good luck getting directions there if you're a speaker of American English, though!

Tourist - Is there a B&B in Derby ?

Local - Noooo, D-E-R-B-Y !

Maybe you don't start with that many spares but as your fleet ages you need to swap engines for overhauls etc. and get a couple more spares ?

lightsaber wrote:

That is a high ratio.

Lightsaber

That's what I thought.

And how about this?

"As indicated in our statement on 26 October 2018, we expect to deliver around 500 large engines to our customers in 2018."

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press ... pdate.aspx

Swoon!

PM wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

That is a high ratio.

Lightsaber

That's what I thought.

And how about this?

"As indicated in our statement on 26 October 2018, we expect to deliver around 500 large engines to our customers in 2018."

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press ... pdate.aspx

Swoon!

500? That includes all Trents? 1000, XWB, 7000? Actually... they would fit on 250 twins. With 90 A3590s delivered, 1 A330-900 and still some in the line, how many 787s powered by RRs are left? Boeing expects to deliver 147 787s in 2018. Are they also meant as replacements?

Revelation wrote:

The only place I was truly lost language-wise is when we went in to a auto parts store and he was talking with the guy at the counter.

Lord I didn't understand a single thing the other guy was saying.

Haha, this reminds me of a scene from Top Gear (a British car show) where the presenter is in Texas and can't understand anything the auto-shop guy says in southern accent so he had to get the mayor of the town to translate

zeke wrote:

ScottB wrote:

RB211trent wrote:

all built in Derby England.

Good luck getting directions there if you're a speaker of American English, though!

Tourist - Is there a B&B in Derby ?

Local - Noooo, D-E-R-B-Y !

That's a good one!

My cousin refers to his own home town as "Drabby".

That's strange since he's spent over five decades living there or near by and hasn't bothered moving away.

Solid engines which take a lot of abuse. We've currently got a 20 year old loaner engine from RR which spent most of its life with Emirates.

LewisNEO wrote:

PM wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

That is a high ratio.

Lightsaber

That's what I thought.

And how about this?

"As indicated in our statement on 26 October 2018, we expect to deliver around 500 large engines to our customers in 2018."

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press ... pdate.aspx

Swoon!

500? That includes all Trents? 1000, XWB, 7000? Actually... they would fit on 250 twins. With 90 A3590s delivered, 1 A330-900 and still some in the line, how many 787s powered by RRs are left? Boeing expects to deliver 147 787s in 2018. Are they also meant as replacements?

You seem to have missed T700 powered A330s.....it’s what this thread was about and T900s on the A380

RB211trent wrote:

LewisNEO wrote:

PM wrote:

That's what I thought.

And how about this?

"As indicated in our statement on 26 October 2018, we expect to deliver around 500 large engines to our customers in 2018."

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press ... pdate.aspx

Swoon!

500? That includes all Trents? 1000, XWB, 7000? Actually... they would fit on 250 twins. With 90 A3590s delivered, 1 A330-900 and still some in the line, how many 787s powered by RRs are left? Boeing expects to deliver 147 787s in 2018. Are they also meant as replacements?

You seem to have missed T700 powered A330s.....it’s what this thread was about and T900s on the A380

Thnx, that clears things, because the RR site refers to 500 of all types.

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

PM wrote:

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

MaxiAir wrote:

PM wrote:

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

Fair question. I honestly have no idea. Perhaps someone else here can tell us how it works.

You'd think the engines would be sent to Airbus / Boeing on consignment and handed over to the customer on delivery of the aircraft.

In reality there could be hundreds of iterations on how an engine is delivered to the customer.

MaxiAir wrote:

PM wrote:

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

6 X T7000 at least.

On the 24th December TAP had already officially received two more A339 but the planes are still in TLS and will fly to LIS in January.

AECM wrote:

MaxiAir wrote:

PM wrote:

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

6 X T7000 at least.

On the 24th December TAP had already officially received two more A339 but the planes are still in TLS and will fly to LIS in January.

Wow, did you count by hand, because I couldn't find any data. Thank you for the overview. This amount sounds quite plausible, it had to be max 500 of all types, not only the T700. And I guess we are not sure how many engines have been shipped to the manufacturers and also as a replacement or stationary supply. So the expected amount of 500 shipped engines in 2018 could be in sight.

Revelation wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

Maybe covers adaptations to land-based power generation apps, off-shore oil rigs, ship-board power plants, etc?

The Industrial Trent is based on the T800 core and not the T700 core.

PM wrote:

MaxiAir wrote:

PM wrote:

My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

Fair question. I honestly have no idea. Perhaps someone else here can tell us how it works.

Purchasing commercial aircraft engines works along the same lines as purchasing an aircraft, either complete with engines, or air frame only.

The air frame OEM and customer agree delivery dates, and then work backwards, establishing a series of milestones, at which point usually (though not always), a payment falls due.

If the transaction is for an aircraft and engines, the air frame OEM usually collects all milestone payments and makes disbursements to suppliers. TAP would be in this category.

Sometimes the air frame or engine OEM is in a position to offer low hour, used engines, in lieu of new. For example, the QR test mules. Apart from lower acquisition cost, milestone payments will be later.

Very large customers negotiate with the engine OEM's direct. In this case, milestones, timings and percentages can be quite different than if supplied via A or B.

lightsaber wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

That is a high ratio. About one spare for 8 in service is normal for Pratt.

Lightsaber

A bit more to chuck into the mix.

The 2018 RR Annual Report states that 469 large engines were delivered. (Down from 483 in 2017 which is also interesting.) 434 of those were delivered as deliveries of new widebodies. So the remainder (35) must be spares. But that's all across the product range (T700, T900, T1000, TWXB, T7000).

But, for what it's worth, that gives us one "spare" for every 13.4 new engines.

(Then again, if I apply the same calculation to RR large engines in 2017, I get one "spare" for every 4.8 new engines.)

This is complicated!

They mentioned about 50 spares in the earnings call, and a similar number for 2019.

DfwRevolution wrote:

Revelation wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

Maybe covers adaptations to land-based power generation apps, off-shore oil rigs, ship-board power plants, etc?

The Industrial Trent is based on the T800 core and not the T700 core.

Industrial Trents aren’t built by RR, industrial was sold to Siemens with the tech under license I think. Also I don’t think there are any orders but I’m not sure.

travelhound wrote:

You'd think the engines would be sent to Airbus / Boeing on consignment and handed over to the customer on delivery of the aircraft.

In reality there could be hundreds of iterations on how an engine is delivered to the customer.

Spare engines are shipped directly to the customer.

PM wrote:

MaxiAir wrote:

PM wrote:

As best I can tell, by 24th December RR had delivered...

180 x XWB
114 x T1000
76 x T700
44 x T900
2 x T7000

That's 416. My numbers may be "out" by a couple here or there but it can't be by much. Doubtless, there will be a flurry of last-minute deliveries in the next couple of days but we'll get nowhere near 500. So the balance, one assumes, is spares or replacements.

Its probably how you count? You mentionend 2 delivered Trent 7000, because only 1 330neo was delivered to TAP, but for RR delivered probably means shipped to Airbus, I’d assume?!

Fair question. I honestly have no idea. Perhaps someone else here can tell us how it works.

If it’s shipped to airbus/Boeing etc it’s classed as delivered. Engines passed test but not shipped have also at times been included in the figures.

PM wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

That is a high ratio. About one spare for 8 in service is normal for Pratt.

Lightsaber

A bit more to chuck into the mix.

The 2018 RR Annual Report states that 469 large engines were delivered. (Down from 483 in 2017 which is also interesting.) 434 of those were delivered as deliveries of new widebodies. So the remainder (35) must be spares. But that's all across the product range (T700, T900, T1000, TWXB, T7000).

But, for what it's worth, that gives us one "spare" for every 13.4 new engines.

(Then again, if I apply the same calculation to RR large engines in 2017, I get one "spare" for every 4.8 new engines.)

This is complicated!

Spare engine percentages may sometimes look squed as spare engines are normally delivered to new operators before there first delivery, with many new A350/787 operators spare engines need delivering up front.

RB211trent wrote:

If it’s shipped to airbus/Boeing etc it’s classed as delivered. Engines passed test but not shipped have also at times been included in the figures.

I'm not sure that is necessarily true. On page 2 of the Annual Report, it states:

"Civil Aerospace: 469 large engines invoiced, with an additional 11 shipped to OEMs."

Those eleven are now in Seattle or Toulouse, I assume, but don't count as 2018 deliveries. Am I missing something?

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

I think you miscount the A330 with T700 engines I am getting around 890, at the time of the RR article. Frames with T700, but not all delivered. Some working up, including Beluga XL that will not be delivered. There will always be a timing mismatch, between the engine delivered and the frame delivered.

890 frames, 1780 engines, 220 spares, That would mean one spare for every 8 engines hanging on the wing on an A330.

mjoelnir wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

I think you miscount the A330 with T700 engines I am getting around 890, at the time of the RR article. Frames with T700, but not all delivered. Some working up, including Beluga XL that will not be delivered. There will always be a timing mismatch, between the engine delivered and the frame delivered.

890 frames, 1780 engines, 220 spares, That would mean one spare for every 8 engines hanging on the wing on an A330.

I'm sure you are right. My original post was more than two months ago.

PM wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

PM wrote:

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media.aspx

Airbus have delivered around 870 A330s with Trent 700s (-200, -300, -F, MRTT) so that would be 1,740 engines. The other 260 must be spares. I've no idea but is that about right? One spare for every 6.5 delivered?

So you buy 13 A330s (=26 engines) but you also buy four spares?

Seems a lot.

Lightsaber - where are you?!

I think you miscount the A330 with T700 engines I am getting around 890, at the time of the RR article. Frames with T700, but not all delivered. Some working up, including Beluga XL that will not be delivered. There will always be a timing mismatch, between the engine delivered and the frame delivered.

890 frames, 1780 engines, 220 spares, That would mean one spare for every 8 engines hanging on the wing on an A330.

I did not count deliveries today, but on the date of the RR article.

I'm sure you are right. My original post was more than two months ago.

I did look at the frames delivered, working up and owned by Airbus at the date of the RR article, the 18th of December 2018.