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Polot
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Re: 757s in Vail

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:14 pm

trueblew wrote:
Flighty wrote:
seabosdca wrote:

Which A319s? I assume the new-build AA ones? It's hard to imagine that US would have gone for a hot rod configuration to tootle around the east coast.


I never heard US or AA A319 struggle to do a mission, short of perhaps PHX-ANC full bags. Like the 73G, the 319 have plenty of power and a big wing. AA flies them to DFW and ORD and LAX. This is not a surprise imo

EGE seems to require the "high performance" jets, 752, A319, 73G, E75. The CR7 would qualify too. (edit: and yes, AA/SkyWest fly PHX-EGE on CR7, and DL/SkyWest fly SLC-EGE on CR7)

Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.


I'd imagine the A220 will have the performance to fly to JFK from EGE?

Biggest issue for A220 would be baggage space.
 
CALMSP
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Re: 757s in Vail

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:15 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
I'm assuming DL could use their 737-700's if needed, given their performance specs? Yeah, big capacity cut if it was a 1/1 replacement, but just asking in the capability aspect.


you would still be payload restricted. CO ran the 73G EGE-EWR and capped the capacity to 12 / 94 i believe it was. Need the lift in the event you lose an engine on climb out in order to get over the mountain.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: 757s in Vail

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:42 pm

FA9295 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
So when the 757s are all retired, what will be the successor aircraft?

A321.

You’re joking right? The thrust to weight ratio of the 757 is far superior and the wing on the A321 is small relative to the length of the body.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:04 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
AA uses the A319 during off peak times as well as supplemental capacity during the busy season. They're also using A319s to other intermountain destinations that were 757 heavy destinations such as Rifle, Gunnison, Jackson Hole and Steamboat Springs.


There is no airline service to Rifle.

'902
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us330
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:34 pm

AA has indicated that the A319 will be their 757 replacement on the ski routes, which will probably mean an increase in frequency to make up for a lack of seats. During peak times, DFW-EGE is served 4x per day, 3x A319, 1x757. Given the unique mission and operating requirements, it's plausible that MIA-EGE could be one of the last 757 routes for AA.

CRJ-700s have no issues operating from EGE. They are the only commercial type scheduled from Aspen--an airport that has tighter operating parameters than EGE--and are operated from ASE to destinations as close as Denver and as far off as Atlanta.
 
airbazar
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:01 pm

Flighty wrote:
Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.

B6 seems to be aligning itself with Alterra's Ikon Pass rather than Vail Resorts so you're probably right that we won't be seeing B6 in EGE but for different reasons. The A321NEO should be good out of EGE.
Bobloblaw wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
So when the 757s are all retired, what will be the successor aircraft?

A321.

You’re joking right? The thrust to weight ratio of the 757 is far superior and the wing on the A321 is small relative to the length of the body.

I know the poster typed "A321" but since we're talking future I'm assuming the poster meant A321neo.
Unless my math is wrong the A321neo has a better thrust to weight ration than the 752. The wing loading might be a different story.
A321neo (35,000lbf x2)/206,000lbs = .339
757-200 w/ RR engines, (41000lbf x2)/255,000lbs = .321
757-200 w/ PW engines, (36000lbf x2)/255,000lbs= .282
I think the biggest problem for the A321neo out of EGE might be the 9,000ft rwy because it doesn't seem to have any problems out of MEX which is at a higher altitude but also has a longer runway.
 
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Polot
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:18 pm

airbazar wrote:
You’re joking right? The thrust to weight ratio of the 757 is far superior and the wing on the A321 is small relative to the length of the body.
I know the poster typed "A321" but since we're talking future I'm assuming the poster meant A321neo.
Unless my math is wrong the A321neo has a better thrust to weight ration than the 752. The wing loading might be a different story.
A321neo (35,000lbf x2)/206,000lbs = .339
757-200 w/ RR engines, (41000lbf x2)/255,000lbs = .321
757-200 w/ PW engines, (36000lbf x2)/255,000lbs= .282
I think the biggest problem for the A321neo out of EGE might be the 9,000ft rwy because it doesn't seem to have any problems out of MEX which is at a higher altitude but also has a longer runway.

Max thrust for RR 752 is 43100 lbs, max thrust for PW 752 is 41700 lbf. MTOW of the A321neo is now (or will soon be) 213,800 lbs. Obviously airlines may not commit to that for A321neo domestic use...but they may not be using the full 255 lb of the 757 either.

EGE’s problem isn’t just elevation/runway length, there are terrain issues as well (making sure you have enough clearance in engine out situation).

I know that PW and CFM have committed to the 35k thrust bump, when will those be available?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:44 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
So when the 757s are all retired, what will be the successor aircraft?

the B737-700/800 the A319/A320

The A320NEOSHARP would be an excellent fit. Same with the -8MAX. There are too few routes that require 757 capacity and short field performance. Added frequency or routes is better anyway (passenger schedule and yield).

Do not discount the A220. The amazing hot/high performance will open many routes and will allow direct flights at such a reduced cost per flight new routes will be opened.

I'd say the same about the E2-190, but there are no US sales...

Lightsaber
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IAHFLYR
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:56 pm

joeljack wrote:
Just flew out of EGE Wednesday to IAH. Flight was late because there were no gates available. On the ground were 2x757 American, 3x737-700 United, 1xE175 United, 1xCR9 Delta. Lady said they have issues with the 737 to Houston all the time with too many bags, she said they need to change it to a 757 like the EWR flight so they won’t have any issues. Ski equipment is heavy also to IAH, my flight was 1/3rd Hispanic connecting internationally, seemed to all have lots of luggage checking in.

Btw, The new terminal can’t come soon enough. I’ve never seen an airplane terminal so crowded in my life!! No place to stand let alone sit!

On a side note, you can buy beer and drink it anywhere in the terminal!! Super nice! All airports should be that way!!!


Back in the day probably mid 90's Continental flew the IAH-EGE route with a B752, but they changed it before the UA merger to the B737 IIRC. I'd much rather pay more to fly into EGE for skiing in Summit County rather than make the drive from DEN, particularly after Stapleton closed.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ACKattack
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:53 pm

I remember flying out in March of '05 or '06 after Cystic Fibrosis Celebrity Ski event (which AA was the title sponsor and flight provider) and pulling up to EGE with 5 or 6 AA 757 in row, waiting to take all the participants back home. I once had a photo of them lined up, glistening in the morning sun, but that photo was lost on an old computer's hard drive.

Also, the flights in were amazing. They were regularly scheduled flights, but at least half the people on them were going to the event and knew each other. It was like a flying cocktail party.
 
airbazar
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:11 am

Polot wrote:
Max thrust for RR 752 is 43100 lbs, max thrust for PW 752 is 41700 lbf. MTOW of the A321neo is now (or will soon be) 213,800 lbs. Obviously airlines may not commit to that for A321neo domestic use...but they may not be using the full 255 lb of the 757 either.

I thought the 43.1K and 41.7K lbf were only available on 753, not for the 752.
Nevertheless I made the adjustments and the A321neo isn't significantly worse than the RR and is equal to the PW.
757-200 w/ RR engines, (43100lbf x2)/255,000lbs = .338
757-200 w/ PW engines, (41700lbf x2)/255,000lbs= .327
A321neo (35,000lbf x2)/213,800lbs = .327
 
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seabosdca
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:58 am

Thrust/weight doesn't tell you much without wing loading. And wing loading is the A321's Achilles' heel when it's asked for extreme performance, as it has a small wing for an airliner of its weight and payload capacity. Realistic takeoff weights from Eagle's runway (not taking terrain avoidance into account) are around 96 t for the 752 and 78 t for the A321 at normal winter temperatures. The 757 in this situation will have wing loading of around 510 kg/m^2, and the A321 around 645 kg/m^2. With similar thrust/weight and those wing loading numbers, you can imagine that the 752 is going to take less of a payload hit to accommodate terrain avoidance needs.

If Airbus really wanted to make the A321 into a hot/high aircraft it would have needed a new wing or at least a wing root extension.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:48 am

HPRamper wrote:
planecane wrote:
I'm sure an A319 can do the mission. However, even if they can fly with no payload restrictions, there are only 128 seats. The 752s, when I've been a passenger, have had 150+ passengers. The route seems to have too much demand for 1 A319 but not nearly the demand for 2 A319s.

Not a lot of seats, and a very small forward belly that I don't believe can fit skis, at least not effectively.


Then you would fly 1 A319 and up the prices and use the other A319 elsewhere.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:00 am

trueblew wrote:
Flighty wrote:
seabosdca wrote:

Which A319s? I assume the new-build AA ones? It's hard to imagine that US would have gone for a hot rod configuration to tootle around the east coast.


I never heard US or AA A319 struggle to do a mission, short of perhaps PHX-ANC full bags. Like the 73G, the 319 have plenty of power and a big wing. AA flies them to DFW and ORD and LAX. This is not a surprise imo

EGE seems to require the "high performance" jets, 752, A319, 73G, E75. The CR7 would qualify too. (edit: and yes, AA/SkyWest fly PHX-EGE on CR7, and DL/SkyWest fly SLC-EGE on CR7)

Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.


I'd imagine the A220 will have the performance to fly to JFK from EGE?


If the A220 (BCS3) can easily do JFK-EGE without significant restrictions, they might just chase AA off of another route from JFK. But the other rub could be: could the BCS3 do JFK-ASE, as an alternative to JFK-EGE? (The problem though is ASE is 1300 feet higher than EGE.)
 
blink182
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:10 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Flighty wrote:

I never heard US or AA A319 struggle to do a mission, short of perhaps PHX-ANC full bags. Like the 73G, the 319 have plenty of power and a big wing. AA flies them to DFW and ORD and LAX. This is not a surprise imo

EGE seems to require the "high performance" jets, 752, A319, 73G, E75. The CR7 would qualify too. (edit: and yes, AA/SkyWest fly PHX-EGE on CR7, and DL/SkyWest fly SLC-EGE on CR7)

Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.


I'd imagine the A220 will have the performance to fly to JFK from EGE?


If the A220 (BCS3) can easily do JFK-EGE without significant restrictions, they might just chase AA off of another route from JFK. But the other rub could be: could the BCS3 do JFK-ASE, as an alternative to JFK-EGE? (The problem though is ASE is 1300 feet higher than EGE.)


Doubtful. ASE is not only higher, but it’s runway is shorter and thinner and may require a turn around at the end depending on traffic. A 73S BBJ just went in and apparently was an incredibly tight squeeze even if it was within legal parameters. Given the traffic volume that ASE gets, even if an A220 can fit, it’s size may be disruptive to operations that can quickly go haywire even on good days.

The CR7 works at ASE as best available commercial aircraft, but let’s remember that the BAe146 was traditionally the optimal aircraft.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
KICT
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:16 am

It wasn't a BBJ that just flew into ASE (which would imply it was a NG), rather a 737-500 converted into a business jet. These were never marketed as "BBJ". The -500s wingspan is apparently 3 inches shy of the limit for ASE, meaning any NG (even one without winglets) would not work there.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
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Polot
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:27 am

KICT wrote:
It wasn't a BBJ that just flew into ASE (which would imply it was a NG), rather a 737-500 converted into a business jet. These were never marketed as "BBJ". The -500s wingspan is apparently 3 inches shy of the limit for ASE, meaning any NG (even one without winglets) would not work there.

That means the A220 is a no go at ASE, since it’s wingspan is ~21 feet wider than the 737 Classic’s, and about 20 ft wider than ASE’s 95’ limit.

Remember the A220 is small in capacity, not in stature.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:45 am

sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
This year, AA left the NYC EGE market after many years of flying it.

Historically it was EWR EGE daily, Saturday only LGA EGE

Then it was JFK EGE daily.

This year I didnt see anything

Another route cut


AA never cut vail, just seasonal, they added LGA-EGE on saturdays to say the least, JFK-EGE makes a lot of money for AA and they don't even code share on it, all local traffic



Upon further checking...it doesnt run daily.
 
Chuska
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:14 pm

For the record, the Aspen Airways timetable from June 12, 1983 shows DEN-Rifle-Aspen-DEN service, Convair 580.

Flew an AA 757 DFW-EGE in late September one year. The approach goes slightly north over Kremmling, CO then we got the best show of fall colors I've ever seen. Many thanks to the captain on that one.
 
airbazar
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:11 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Thrust/weight doesn't tell you much without wing loading. And wing loading is the A321's Achilles' heel when it's asked for extreme performance, as it has a small wing for an airliner of its weight and payload capacity. Realistic takeoff weights from Eagle's runway (not taking terrain avoidance into account) are around 96 t for the 752 and 78 t for the A321 at normal winter temperatures. The 757 in this situation will have wing loading of around 510 kg/m^2, and the A321 around 645 kg/m^2. With similar thrust/weight and those wing loading numbers, you can imagine that the 752 is going to take less of a payload hit to accommodate terrain avoidance needs.

If Airbus really wanted to make the A321 into a hot/high aircraft it would have needed a new wing or at least a wing root extension.


Yup, wing loading is a big issue indeed however I think the A321 take-off performance gets a bad rap around here and is made to look worse than it actually is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ8EhXtjD-Q
By the way the A321neo is already a very capable hot and high aircraft, although "hot" is irrelevant in this scenario :) It may not be for all high altitude airports but there are quite a few airlines operating it from hot&high airports such as MEX and BOG. Here's one taking off from MED at 7,000ft alt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iazi5cd9yYc
No way of knowing how much runway it used or how heavy it was. AV is one airline that replaced all of their 752s with A321s and they operate out of a lot of hot and high airports.
 
KICT
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:55 pm

Needless to say it was an incredible day of spotting yesterday.
Watching these 757s depart KEGE "in their element" was incredible.
Hope to have some in the database soon.

Image

This location is https://goo.gl/maps/zbau3LM4Ub32, by the way.
Requires a short hike (and some snow shoes this time of year) but it's easy enough to get to.
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planecane
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
planecane wrote:
I'm sure an A319 can do the mission. However, even if they can fly with no payload restrictions, there are only 128 seats. The 752s, when I've been a passenger, have had 150+ passengers. The route seems to have too much demand for 1 A319 but not nearly the demand for 2 A319s.

Not a lot of seats, and a very small forward belly that I don't believe can fit skis, at least not effectively.


Then you would fly 1 A319 and up the prices and use the other A319 elsewhere.


The fares now aren't exactly a bargain. I fly it to avoid connection issues and driving from DEN in winter. If the fares get much higher I won't be able to afford it.
 
Shanasta
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Re: 757s in Vail

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:26 pm

codc10 wrote:
The 757 was the mainline jet of choice because it was pretty much the only type that could carry a reasonable payload on the resort-subsidized routes like LGA/EWR, ORD, MIA, ATL. Mainline United mostly flew 737-300s to DEN and LAX (when not operating as UAX with Air Wisky 146s). These days, the 73G and A319 have replaced many 757s as their numbers have diminished.

Here's a cool shot from 2004 or so with the standard Saturday 757 lineup... AA, US, CO, DL, NW and the oddball UAX 146.

Image



Outstading photo. I remember those days very well. I'm surprised I had never run off I-70 watching 757s rotating out of EGE.
 
sargester
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:41 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
This year, AA left the NYC EGE market after many years of flying it.

Historically it was EWR EGE daily, Saturday only LGA EGE

Then it was JFK EGE daily.

This year I didnt see anything

Another route cut


AA never cut vail, just seasonal, they added LGA-EGE on saturdays to say the least, JFK-EGE makes a lot of money for AA and they don't even code share on it, all local traffic



Upon further checking...it doesnt run daily.


it is daily, maybe no towards the end of the sky eason but JFK-vail is a daily service by AA in the peak months, and LGA is saturday service only
 
timh4000
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:59 pm

I keep reading about the impending end of the 757. Is it fuel economy that is driving this? The 757 is among pilots and ATC favourites, and pax don't typically complain too much about it either. It just seems to me they could put more efficient engines in them and keep flying them. .maybe even Bring back production of them.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:09 pm

Flighty wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
MO11 wrote:
American operates the "hot-and-high" version of the A319, which is the one that serves Eagle.


Which A319s? I assume the new-build AA ones? It's hard to imagine that US would have gone for a hot rod configuration to tootle around the east coast.


I never heard US or AA A319 struggle to do a mission, short of perhaps PHX-ANC full bags. Like the 73G, the 319 have plenty of power and a big wing. AA flies them to DFW and ORD and LAX. This is not a surprise imo

EGE seems to require the "high performance" jets, 752, A319, 73G, E75. The CR7 would qualify too. (edit: and yes, AA/SkyWest fly PHX-EGE on CR7, and DL/SkyWest fly SLC-EGE on CR7)

Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.

The America West and American A319s are very capable while the US A319s are the lower weight, lower thrust variants.

PHX-ANC has been done on both A319 and A320 with no restrictions. The A319 went out at about 150,000lbs while the A320 usually departed closer to 155,000lbs. They can fly either to EGE from DFW, LAX and ORD. MIA, JFK and LGA will have to be A319 or 757 unless MoM on the low end has the performance of the 757.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
N649DL
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:12 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
UA has also scheduled a 757 on the EWREGE run, which I believe hasn't been the case for many years, I would say at least since 2011 or 2012 since UA has sent a 757 to EGE. So that's really nice to see


For many years AA flew EWR-EGE on a 757 seasonally which for the life of me I can't understand as to why. They moved it to JFK post 2010, I wanna say 2011-2012.
 
Boof02671
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:14 pm

US use to fly seasonal CLT-EGE with the 752.
 
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STT757
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:39 pm

N649DL wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
UA has also scheduled a 757 on the EWREGE run, which I believe hasn't been the case for many years, I would say at least since 2011 or 2012 since UA has sent a 757 to EGE. So that's really nice to see


For many years AA flew EWR-EGE on a 757 seasonally which for the life of me I can't understand as to why. They moved it to JFK post 2010, I wanna say 2011-2012.


AA used to have some interesting EWR flights that they didn't offer from LGA or Kennedy. The other that comes to mind is Quebec City.

http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p80.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
WayexTDI
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:55 pm

Polot wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Flighty wrote:

I never heard US or AA A319 struggle to do a mission, short of perhaps PHX-ANC full bags. Like the 73G, the 319 have plenty of power and a big wing. AA flies them to DFW and ORD and LAX. This is not a surprise imo

EGE seems to require the "high performance" jets, 752, A319, 73G, E75. The CR7 would qualify too. (edit: and yes, AA/SkyWest fly PHX-EGE on CR7, and DL/SkyWest fly SLC-EGE on CR7)

Since JetBlue does not operate any of these types, JetBlue would not be serving EGE anytime soon.


I'd imagine the A220 will have the performance to fly to JFK from EGE?

Biggest issue for A220 would be baggage space.

Couldn't they put the skis on a roof rack? :rotfl:
 
WayexTDI
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:58 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
So when the 757s are all retired, what will be the successor aircraft?

A321.

You’re joking right? The thrust to weight ratio of the 757 is far superior and the wing on the A321 is small relative to the length of the body.

It's not because the thrust-to-weight ratio is higher on the 757 that the A321 is not capable of flying out of that airport.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: 757s in Vail

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:04 pm

N649DL wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
UA has also scheduled a 757 on the EWREGE run, which I believe hasn't been the case for many years, I would say at least since 2011 or 2012 since UA has sent a 757 to EGE. So that's really nice to see


For many years AA flew EWR-EGE on a 757 seasonally which for the life of me I can't understand as to why. They moved it to JFK post 2010, I wanna say 2011-2012.


New Jersey is a HUGE ski population of experienced skiers. Most schools in Northern NJ have ski clubs and do after school night skiing. Large population of skiers and kids who want to go somewhere better. Easy place to fill a plane from for a week vacation as the percentage of people who ski is high, and incomes are high to pay for it all.

Vail Resorts revenue guaranteed the flight, but i don't think they ever needed it or rarely in the worst years. Vail resorts was the one who wanted EWR and AA did all their flying. EWR is a huge ski population that could fill the flights to Eagle pretty easily. AA did all the vail resort flying. Vail resorts agreed to move it to JFK since United flys to EWR daily with no guarantee but it seems to have no problem for them filling it at much higher prices than DEN would get.
 
N649DL
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:47 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
UA has also scheduled a 757 on the EWREGE run, which I believe hasn't been the case for many years, I would say at least since 2011 or 2012 since UA has sent a 757 to EGE. So that's really nice to see


For many years AA flew EWR-EGE on a 757 seasonally which for the life of me I can't understand as to why. They moved it to JFK post 2010, I wanna say 2011-2012.


New Jersey is a HUGE ski population of experienced skiers. Most schools in Northern NJ have ski clubs and do after school night skiing. Large population of skiers and kids who want to go somewhere better. Easy place to fill a plane from for a week vacation as the percentage of people who ski is high, and incomes are high to pay for it all.

Vail Resorts revenue guaranteed the flight, but i don't think they ever needed it or rarely in the worst years. Vail resorts was the one who wanted EWR and AA did all their flying. EWR is a huge ski population that could fill the flights to Eagle pretty easily. AA did all the vail resort flying. Vail resorts agreed to move it to JFK since United flys to EWR daily with no guarantee but it seems to have no problem for them filling it at much higher prices than DEN would get.


I grew up in NJ and lived in Colorado for a bit but I can safely say that while we do have a lot residents who ski, our mountains are a joke compared to VT, ME, NH at least ones that we had access to in and around PA. I used to work inside the Vail Resorts building in Broomfield, CO a few years back (woof, talk about a terrible company with miserable people working there) but I believe they would do something like that involving AA to fly EGE-EWR. Or perhaps it was for the folks who worked at Vail Resorts to get home faster if they're from NJ.

We did have February break and went skiing in NH mainly but many schools in my area *didn't* have a break. Hence why we never got MLK day off because that break would always eat up time from the other holidays.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6012
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 pm

sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
sargester wrote:

AA never cut vail, just seasonal, they added LGA-EGE on saturdays to say the least, JFK-EGE makes a lot of money for AA and they don't even code share on it, all local traffic



Upon further checking...it doesnt run daily.


it is daily, maybe no towards the end of the sky eason but JFK-vail is a daily service by AA in the peak months, and LGA is saturday service only



Try buying tickets on Tues or Wed in January
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:51 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
UA has also scheduled a 757 on the EWREGE run, which I believe hasn't been the case for many years, I would say at least since 2011 or 2012 since UA has sent a 757 to EGE. So that's really nice to see


For many years AA flew EWR-EGE on a 757 seasonally which for the life of me I can't understand as to why. They moved it to JFK post 2010, I wanna say 2011-2012.


New Jersey is a HUGE ski population of experienced skiers. Most schools in Northern NJ have ski clubs and do after school night skiing. Large population of skiers and kids who want to go somewhere better. Easy place to fill a plane from for a week vacation as the percentage of people who ski is high, and incomes are high to pay for it all.

Vail Resorts revenue guaranteed the flight, but i don't think they ever needed it or rarely in the worst years. Vail resorts was the one who wanted EWR and AA did all their flying. EWR is a huge ski population that could fill the flights to Eagle pretty easily. AA did all the vail resort flying. Vail resorts agreed to move it to JFK since United flys to EWR daily with no guarantee but it seems to have no problem for them filling it at much higher prices than DEN would get.


Every affluent High School in the NY BOS metro area has ski clubs.

There is nothing large nor impressive about NJs ski population. A state with no mountains and the closest realish mountains (if you consider the catskills real) are 3 hours away.

Notice im not even acknowledging Vernon Valley (or its name DuJour) or the Poconos.

Any affluent metro area in a cold weather climate is going to have a skiing population.


Notice I say affluent. Unless you are a local in a ski town, skiing has become a rich mans sport.
 
KICT
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:53 pm

Image
Worth the hike up the mountain...
People are saying. Believe me.
 
BrodieBruce
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:14 pm

Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:15 pm

Those pictures are outstanding KICT. Wow.
 
KICT
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Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:31 pm

BrodieBruce wrote:
Those pictures are outstanding KICT. Wow.


I appreciate that! Love capturing them in their natural habitat.
KHDN is next on my list.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
DDR
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:16 pm

Thanks for the pics KICT. They are stunning! Congrats on the photo work. Hope you weren't too cold out there on the mountains.
 
BrodieBruce
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:01 pm

KICT wrote:
BrodieBruce wrote:
Those pictures are outstanding KICT. Wow.


I appreciate that! Love capturing them in their natural habitat.
KHDN is next on my list.

That's a fun little airport too. I have some land out by there, so I visit periodically.
 
xjetflyer2001
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Re: 757s in Vail

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:53 pm

KICT wrote:
Needless to say it was an incredible day of spotting yesterday.
Watching these 757s depart KEGE "in their element" was incredible.
Hope to have some in the database soon.

Image

This location is https://goo.gl/maps/zbau3LM4Ub32, by the way.
Requires a short hike (and some snow shoes this time of year) but it's easy enough to get to.


Great photos KICT, I hope to get some photos even half that good, also thanks for the location coordinates, I would have thought you would have been higher up the mountain. Parking on the side of the road I assume is not a problem?
 
KAUSavgeek
Posts: 37
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Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:02 am

I have flown into KEGE for around 8 years, and the loads are going up more and more. I remember when AA used to fly the 752 to DFW in the summer, and did EGE-DEN-MIA on the 752 as well. The 757 is a great plane for EGE, but the lack of them at AAL/UAL and most of them being sked on flights to south America/ western EU, I could see a change in aircraft here.

A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...
 
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seabosdca
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Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:48 am

The 763 is indeed an underappreciated field performer. But it's awfully hard to park and handle at these small airports without very drastic changes.
 
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ADent
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Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:01 am

timh4000 wrote:
I keep reading about the impending end of the 757. Is it fuel economy that is driving this? The 757 is among pilots and ATC favourites, and pax don't typically complain too much about it either. It just seems to me they could put more efficient engines in them and keep flying them. .maybe even Bring back production of them.

The 757 was introduced in 1983, the 737NG in 1997, and the 737Max in 2017. The newer planes have much newer and more efficient engines. The 737 (and A320 family) are significantly lighter and use smaller engines than the 757s. Each generation is also designed to be easier to maintain.
 
airbazar
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Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:28 pm

KAUSavgeek wrote:
A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...

The 752 and 763 are of the exact same generation. In fact they are the same family with a common type rating. And there are are even fewer 763's than there are 752's. Both of them will be phased out over time, together.
 
Kno
Posts: 560
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Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:10 pm

KAUSavgeek wrote:
I have flown into KEGE for around 8 years, and the loads are going up more and more. I remember when AA used to fly the 752 to DFW in the summer, and did EGE-DEN-MIA on the 752 as well. The 757 is a great plane for EGE, but the lack of them at AAL/UAL and most of them being sked on flights to south America/ western EU, I could see a change in aircraft here.

A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...


I was once in EGE in the late 90s and noticed a delta 767 there, notably larger than the 757s there and at the time I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was parked closer to the hanger than usual. I’ve wondered since if my mind was playing tricks on me but I’ll say I feel 75% sure. I’d imagine one has come in as a sub at some point regardless but if they do not have a loader or a tow bar I’m not sure what they’d do.
 
KAUSavgeek
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 am

Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:38 pm

airbazar wrote:
KAUSavgeek wrote:
A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...

The 752 and 763 are of the exact same generation. In fact they are the same family with a common type rating. And there are are even fewer 763's than there are 752's. Both of them will be phased out over time, together.


Well, AAL has a decent amount of 767's. and far more than their 752's
 
KAUSavgeek
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 am

Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:39 pm

Kno wrote:
KAUSavgeek wrote:
I have flown into KEGE for around 8 years, and the loads are going up more and more. I remember when AA used to fly the 752 to DFW in the summer, and did EGE-DEN-MIA on the 752 as well. The 757 is a great plane for EGE, but the lack of them at AAL/UAL and most of them being sked on flights to south America/ western EU, I could see a change in aircraft here.

A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...


I was once in EGE in the late 90s and noticed a delta 767 there, notably larger than the 757s there and at the time I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was parked closer to the hanger than usual. I’ve wondered since if my mind was playing tricks on me but I’ll say I feel 75% sure. I’d imagine one has come in as a sub at some point regardless but if they do not have a loader or a tow bar I’m not sure what they’d do.


They do have a tow bar, I know that for sure
 
KAUSavgeek
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 am

Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:42 pm

I would not be surprised if AAL uses the 737MAX for the MIA-EGE route, and UAL with the MAX9 on the IAH-EGE route
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: 757s in Vail

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:08 pm

KAUSavgeek wrote:
airbazar wrote:
KAUSavgeek wrote:
A few months ago I had a good conversation with the Chief pilot of the 752/763 fleet, and he said the 767 could 100% fly out of EGE, they just don't have the loaders for it, and the capacity to handle it on the terminal side, but with loads and the actual performance of the aircraft hot and heavy, it is possible that we could see that in the distant future. AAL loads the 763 up and uses the 7000 foot runway at PHOG for a 9 hour flight, so EGE isn't a far shot...

The 752 and 763 are of the exact same generation. In fact they are the same family with a common type rating. And there are are even fewer 763's than there are 752's. Both of them will be phased out over time, together.


Well, AAL has a decent amount of 767's. and far more than their 752's

They don't have that many of either type to begin with because they are further ahead on the 757/767 replacement plan. AA's 763's will be completely gone in 2021. So much for that plan :)
KAUSavgeek wrote:
I would not be surprised if AAL uses the 737MAX for the MIA-EGE route, and UAL with the MAX9 on the IAH-EGE route

Unless I'm confusing the MAX9 with the -900ER, the MAX9 has worse takeoff performance than the A321neo. If the A321 can't fly out of EGE as some people claim, neither will the Max9.

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