Great story:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ohi ... 34668.html

Delta FA's Dad didn't want her to be alone on Christmas. WOW!

What a wonderful thing for a father to do.

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I'm not sure if he non-revved but it was apparently a surprise so he might have just paid for his tickets. Can you imagine trying to non-rev at Christmas? He was on all 6 flights so my guess would be NO.

OzarkD9S wrote:

I'm not sure if he non-revved but it was apparently a surprise so he might have just paid for his tickets. Can you imagine trying to non-rev at Christmas? He was on all 6 flights so my guess would be NO.

He was a nonrev, from the article,
"“He made it on every flight and even got first class RSW-DTW (Christmas miracle),” Pierce continued."
"Levy met Hal on a flight from Fort Myers to Detroit. He also told the outlet that Hal had a challenging time catching each flight, but had a great time overall."
Buying a ticket would be too risky on the holidays as she could get rerouted as crews run short during the holidays..

Flightguy123 wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

I'm not sure if he non-revved but it was apparently a surprise so he might have just paid for his tickets. Can you imagine trying to non-rev at Christmas? He was on all 6 flights so my guess would be NO.

He was a nonrev, from the article,
"“He made it on every flight and even got first class RSW-DTW (Christmas miracle),” Pierce continued."
"Levy met Hal on a flight from Fort Myers to Detroit. He also told the outlet that Hal had a challenging time catching each flight, but had a great time overall."
Buying a ticket would be too risky on the holidays as she could get rerouted as crews run short during the holidays..

Good catch, I admit I skimmed the article, but liked the gesture.

OzarkD9S wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:

I'm not sure if he non-revved but it was apparently a surprise so he might have just paid for his tickets. Can you imagine trying to non-rev at Christmas? He was on all 6 flights so my guess would be NO.

He was a nonrev, from the article,
"“He made it on every flight and even got first class RSW-DTW (Christmas miracle),” Pierce continued."
"Levy met Hal on a flight from Fort Myers to Detroit. He also told the outlet that Hal had a challenging time catching each flight, but had a great time overall."
Buying a ticket would be too risky on the holidays as she could get rerouted as crews run short during the holidays..

Good catch, I admit I skimmed the article, but liked the gesture.

I need this fathers luck when it comes to nonrevving... Guy made it on 6 flights on Christmas Eve

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

There is nothing wrong with this. There is a reason why nonrev is called "Space Available". Also in the grand scheme of working for a company like Delta, his daughter looks quite young on the seniority totem pole.

Please stop trying to find a problem where a problem doesn't exist.

mantistobogn wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

Please stop trying to find a problem where a problem doesn't exist.

Thank You. I grew up as an airline brat and non-revved so many times I couldn't count them all. It's not the intention of your journey its the space available. Just a perk of the job.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

What on earth are you talking about? Non-rev travel is exactly for personal pleasure and is part of the compensation package that every employee receives from the company. There is no grey area here. There are numerous dependents from numerous airlines, who use their NRSA benefits to try to hit every city their respective airlines fly. Using pass travel benefits for monetary gains is against the rules. Traveling on 6 legs with the primary beneficiary is not an abuse of privileges. Get out of here with that nonsense.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

There was no ‘abuse’ of the system, I don’t understand why you think there was, it makes no sense


As a non rev if there’s space you get on, if not you don’t, pretty simple, you’re not ‘taking advantage’ of anyone just using the pass benefits you work so hard for whether
it’s you or your family



I guess if Delta had seen it as ‘abuse’ they wouldn’t have stated what a wonderful story they thought it was



Good for both of them

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

My goodness. The guy made a nice gesture to spend time with his daughter on the biggest family day of the year. Stop trying to find a reason to nail him for it. I bet the DL PR department is going bonkers in excitement over this story

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

I’ve flown to AMS to have breakfast and then turned around and gotten back on the same plane I flew in on back to the US. Is that abusing the “good will” of the airlines?

As long as you’re not somehow profiting off using your passes or using them for business purposes, if there’s seats available you or your dependent could theoretically fly nonstop for a week straight and the company couldn’t say anything. It’s the beautiful part of unlimited space available pass privileges.

chonetsao wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

What complete nonsense. Like many others on this forum, I grew up with nonrev privileges and continue to have them as a product of my spouse's employment and at times, my own consulting assignments. There's no such thing as excessive usage of the nonrev privilege so long as no rules or policies are violated. period.

In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

It's only abuse if you displace a paying passenger as a non-rev.

I envy those who have non-rev benefits. I remember a friend who is ex-MH telling me about his day trip to LHR and about how his colleague went to HKG on a whim for lunch one weekend. Unless you're made of money, there's no way you can do that as a normal flyer.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

FIrst of all, it does not matter if every father, mother or daughter starts to do the same thing. You only clear the flight if there is a seat available after all revenue passengers (and higher priority non-revs) have been accommodated. Secondly, airlines expect their employees/pass holders to use their flight benefits for personal pleasure. Do you really think that you would be flying standby on your passes for official company business?

If the airline feels that there should be a limit of how many passes can be used, they will make it a policy. I believe most airlines do not have such limits (Most US/Canadian majors don't), so I'm guessing that abundant use of passes is not considered to be problematic by most airlines. Hell, many airline employees rely on these passes to get to/from work.

While airlines shouldn't tolerate actual abuse of flight benefits or breach of policy (such as selling buddy passes on eBay, or missing a shift because return flight didn't clear etc.), I think it would be a terrible idea to introduce a cap on flight passes. No need to look further than the staff turnover rate at third-party ground handlers with no flight benefits.

Former major US airline employee, still enjoy flight benefits as my wife is retired from a major US carrier. Absolutely no limit on the number of non rev flights permitted on any given day, week, month, or year. Back in the day, I would fly across the country just to get a free breakfast and lunch on the way back. Literally. I have flown on 5 or 6 flights in a day just because I could. It is simply one of the perks of the job. In fact, I would make the argument that free, unlimited flight benefits make up for what at times can be lower pay than what someone could earn in another industry.

As others have said, as long as there is no monetary gain from taking the flights all is well. When I travel for business now, it is always on a paid, revenue ticket. Just do not sell your passes, or use them to take a trip related to your non airline job and you are fine. End of story.

In Asia, I don't think airlines allow unlimited passes for non rev. And during peak travel times, they don't stand a chance always to get seats. It's all full to the brim after all the upgrades etc. If they are on a positioning flight, thats different, the airline has to take care of that aspect and ensure they get seats. But for personal reasons, airline can't guarantee that on peak times, and their chances are very less actually as flights run packed.
This looks like it was staged by Delta for PR purposes most likely. Hence the guranteed 6 sector first class travel on Xmas Eve, with all flights having his daughter as FA.

Are the non-rev passes free in the USA ? At all the Airlines I have worked for in Europe you pay for standby tickets (ID90). It used to be pretty cheap though until they started taxing them like normal tickets. In the end you could get a normal ticket for not much less than taking a chance on a standby !

Depends on the carrier, but generally speaking, yes, domestic economy class travel is *kostenlos*; premium cabins have a service charge of sorts (not all carriers); international trips come with taxes.

winginit wrote:

In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.

I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travellers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.

hoons90 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

FIrst of all, it does not matter if every father, mother or daughter starts to do the same thing. You only clear the flight if there is a seat available after all revenue passengers (and higher priority non-revs) have been accommodated. Secondly, airlines expect their employees/pass holders to use their flight benefits for personal pleasure. Do you really think that you would be flying standby on your passes for official company business?

If the airline feels that there should be a limit of how many passes can be used, they will make it a policy. I believe most airlines do not have such limits (Most US/Canadian majors don't), so I'm guessing that abundant use of passes is not considered to be problematic by most airlines. Hell, many airline employees rely on these passes to get to/from work.

While airlines shouldn't tolerate actual abuse of flight benefits or breach of policy (such as selling buddy passes on eBay, or missing a shift because return flight didn't clear etc.), I think it would be a terrible idea to introduce a cap on flight passes. No need to look further than the staff turnover rate at third-party ground handlers with no flight benefits.

First of all, I think I was confused with the term of 'personal use' or 'use for personal reasons' and 'personal pleasure'. There is nothing against personal usage. But, use for pure 'personal pleasure', could be different. Although almost all travel could be at personal pleasure, but there always had a thing about too much is not a good thing. And where this line should be drawn?

Second, it does matter how many pass you use. For example, there might be a lower priority stand by passenger is flying from his/her residence city to another city to see his/her grand children or lover or family or sick relatives that day, and because of this dad flying around the country with higher priority, he/she could not get on the plane. Especially for non mainline employee, their priority is lower than mainline employee. What if one of them got stuck in airport because the last space is taken by this jet trotting dad. What if this employee really needs to be with his/her family for Xmas. What if this employee did not see his/her family for year and counting on this Xmas/

Third, there is no abundant supply of free seats. During peak times, you are lucky to have 3-6 seats open in any given flight, sometimes none or even over sold. There is limited seats for non-rev. Every seat you took, there would be one seat gone for others. That is why airline warns you in their non-rev guide to use your pass wisely.

Fourth, airlines have said clearly in their non-rev guide, that no one should misuse the non-rev privilege. Some of the misuse is outlined in the actual language. But airline has the right to suspend or revoke the privilege any time when it sees one traveller deemed to 'misuse' the privilege. Thus my question.

Fifth, it does matter (at least for some airlines) that if every father, every mother or every daughter is doing the same thing. Because I knew at least one airline gives its employee and family one fifth off revenue fares any time. When there were too many stand-by people, some of them would seek to purchase the revenue ticket using the discount. That would cause airline lose of revenue.

Of course, when space is available, do enjoy the non-rev flight. And like I said many times, I personally do not think this dad did anything wrong. However, I asked a question, what is the fine line between abuse the system and what this dad is doing. No one had considered the possibility of the scenario in my second point, that is sad.

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

Awww, that is actually very sweet... Very nice of that father! what a daddy! Thumbs up!!!!

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

I could be overthinking. But the problem is not me. It is this dad taking his 'adventure' to the mass media, it will only take one DL executive to 'overthink' to cause changes to the non-rev policy.

avier wrote:

In Asia, I don't think airlines allow unlimited passes for non rev. And during peak travel times, they don't stand a chance always to get seats. It's all full to the brim after all the upgrades etc. If they are on a positioning flight, thats different, the airline has to take care of that aspect and ensure they get seats. But for personal reasons, airline can't guarantee that on peak times, and their chances are very less actually as flights run packed.
This looks like it was staged by Delta for PR purposes most likely. Hence the guranteed 6 sector first class travel on Xmas Eve, with all flights having his daughter as FA.

She says he made first class just from RSW-DTW. This isn’t a PR stunt. This happens literally all the time but you don’t hear about it because it’s not Christmas and no one is making a Facebook post about it. This probably just started out as a conversation with this passenger.

chonetsao wrote:

hoons90 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

FIrst of all, it does not matter if every father, mother or daughter starts to do the same thing. You only clear the flight if there is a seat available after all revenue passengers (and higher priority non-revs) have been accommodated. Secondly, airlines expect their employees/pass holders to use their flight benefits for personal pleasure. Do you really think that you would be flying standby on your passes for official company business?

If the airline feels that there should be a limit of how many passes can be used, they will make it a policy. I believe most airlines do not have such limits (Most US/Canadian majors don't), so I'm guessing that abundant use of passes is not considered to be problematic by most airlines. Hell, many airline employees rely on these passes to get to/from work.

While airlines shouldn't tolerate actual abuse of flight benefits or breach of policy (such as selling buddy passes on eBay, or missing a shift because return flight didn't clear etc.), I think it would be a terrible idea to introduce a cap on flight passes. No need to look further than the staff turnover rate at third-party ground handlers with no flight benefits.

Second, it does matter how many pass you use. For example, there might be a lower priority stand by passenger is flying from his/her residence city to another city to see his/her grand children or lover or family or sick relatives that day, and because of this dad flying around the country with higher priority, he/she could not get on the plane. Especially for non mainline employee, their priority is lower than mainline employee. What if one of them got stuck in airport because the last space is taken by this jet trotting dad. What if this employee really needs to be with his/her family for Xmas. What if this employee did not see his/her family for year and counting on this Xmas/

Third, there is no abundant supply of free seats. During peak times, you are lucky to have 3-6 seats open in any given flight, sometimes none or even over sold. There is limited seats for non-rev. Every seat you took, there would be one seat gone for others. That is why airline warns you in their non-rev guide to use your pass wisely.

That’s how the game works. Sorry bud. When there’s standby travel and flights are full its every man for himself. If you need to be somewhere that bad you can buy a ticket.

chonetsao wrote:

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

I could be overthinking. But the problem is not me. It is this dad taking his 'adventure' to the mass media, it will only take one DL executive to 'overthink' to cause changes to the non-rev policy.

Delta released a statement saying they were happy her father got to spend the holidays with her. I don’t think this would mark change for nonrev pax

Very nice story !

What was his routing during this 2 days ?

Chone u are wrong. DL nonrev passescan be used as you choose as long as u aren’t violating the T&C. Which this individual did not. So not really concerned with how you interpret the privelage. He was and is within his rights. And to answer one of the members question, yes you can travel as much as you want on DL as an active pass holder. There is a yearly fee which is very small. Very small.

If you have to non rev this week, xmas day is the day to do it. NYE is another day to do it.

Light travel day as most people are in place.

I have been on several xmas day flights and there are always empty seats.

Two things could that could mess up non revs...reduced schedule and winter wx

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

Flightguy123 wrote:

Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

He might have prevented other people from getting home for Christmas. I can remember being in that boat before, got shut out Christmas Eve, family was pretty disappointed, then made it Christmas Day. Nice story about the 757, it is always a good day when you make it on, people going the extra mile. I remember an Alaska ticket agent stayed after midnight to help all the nonrevs who got bumped from the midnight SEA flight. It probably happens every night. Not her job, but she got us rebooked, stayed there past 12am. I still remember it 10 years later, sometimes it makes a difference. I did the same too. One time I got the last seat on the last flight out, a regional. Somebody's elderly mom was right behind me, gave her my seat, so I was stuck, but I was much more equipped to figure it out (I had the skills). When you know the right thing to do, you consider yourself lucky and you do it. Can't blame the guy for wanting to be with his daughter.

Another circular and contradictory opinion by Flighty.

I guess if I have a family member who works at a restaurant, I should eat at the restaurant for all three meals to spend time with them. Then it will make it to national news, right?

chonetsao wrote:

So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure

You’re right it shouldn’t be used exclusively for a pleasure trip. As long as you have a business reason too for traveling it’s ok, or if it’s purely a business trip.

chonetsao wrote:

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

I could be overthinking. But the problem is not me. It is this dad taking his 'adventure' to the mass media, it will only take one DL executive to 'overthink' to cause changes to the non-rev policy.

I believe the problem may be you.


This dad did NOT take this to the mass media.
reading is fundamental. Comprehension is key. The passenger Sitting NEXT to the father took picture and posted it.

There’s no such thing as too many non-rev flights, for example. My dad works for a US3 airline, I’m sitting on the tarmac at JFK waiting to take off on my 405th NRSA flight for me this year.

Great way to spend a buffer year between high school and college.

Flighty wrote:

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

He might have prevented other people from getting home for Christmas. I can remember being in that boat before, got shut out Christmas Eve, family was pretty disappointed, then made it Christmas Day. Nice story about the 757, it is always a good day when you make it on, people going the extra mile. I remember an Alaska ticket agent stayed after midnight to help all the nonrevs who got bumped from the midnight SEA flight. It probably happens every night. Not her job, but she got us rebooked, stayed there past 12am. I still remember it 10 years later, sometimes it makes a difference. I did the same too. One time I got the last seat on the last flight out, a regional. Somebody's elderly mom was right behind me, gave her my seat, so I was stuck, but I was much more equipped to figure it out (I had the skills). When you know the right thing to do, you consider yourself lucky and you do it. Can't blame the guy for wanting to be with his daughter.

Another circular and contradictory opinion by Flighty.

I think you missed the point of that poster - the ticket codes determine the order in which people are bumped, there's no way he prevented ANY paying customer from "getting home to their families" as you put it, rather sensationally I might add. No way.

I flew an old WWII warbird CJR - NAS JAX to work an airshow as I'm mx/flight crew, but had to non-rev back home to work on monday JAX - IAD (our plane was doing a show in Pensacola and prop inspection in NC afterwards). One of our mechanics works for AA so I was able to get a ticket back through him (it's all non-profit so we try to save money when possible) and I got bumped on FIVE FLIGHTS including paying for a hotel the first night because of this. I absolutely didn't complain and just dealt with it - I was grateful for the option. That was actually a PAID nonrev ticket at the reduced rate as well. It is what it is, but I watched probably 50 paying passengers bump me for various reasons - so no way, a nonrev will NOT bump paying pax lol.

chonetsao wrote:

winginit wrote:

In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.

I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travelers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.

Delta, United and American have ZERO policies regarding how many flights an employee or primary pass traveler fly.

Buddy passes have limits IE - 16 total available segments for buddy pass riders. If you have 8 buddy pass riders, you could take every single one with you on a flight and back but then zero buddy passes available for the rest of the year.

Retiree possibly different but I doubt it.

If anything they would have received a lecture for booking flights and then deciding to cancel them/no showing at the gate

chonetsao wrote:

First of all, I think I was confused with the term of 'personal use' or 'use for personal reasons' and 'personal pleasure'.

Here's an airline that spells it out.

http://www.flyzed.info/AA
"Employees may use ZED tickets for personal pleasure travel only. ZED tickets may not be used for any kind of business-related travel."

chonetsao wrote:

There is nothing against personal usage. But, use for pure 'personal pleasure', could be different. Although almost all travel could be at personal pleasure, but there always had a thing about too much is not a good thing. And where this line should be drawn?

So an airline employee cannot use their passes for going on vacation? Because I would consider that pleasure.

chonetsao wrote:

Second, it does matter how many pass you use. For example, there might be a lower priority stand by passenger is flying from his/her residence city to another city to see his/her grand children or lover or family or sick relatives that day, and because of this dad flying around the country with higher priority, he/she could not get on the plane. Especially for non mainline employee, their priority is lower than mainline employee. What if one of them got stuck in airport because the last space is taken by this jet trotting dad. What if this employee really needs to be with his/her family for Xmas. What if this employee did not see his/her family for year and counting on this Xmas/

There is no triage system for standby pass travel that's based on someone's personal needs. It's either based on seniority or a first-come-first-serve basis, depending on the airline. Some airlines give you an annual allotment of higher priority passes (with an extra service charge), that you can use to bypass other standbys if you really need to.
Pass holders that really need to be somewhere will be astute enough to purchase a confirmed revenue ticket. Some flights are full even without any standby pax.

chonetsao wrote:

Third, there is no abundant supply of free seats. During peak times, you are lucky to have 3-6 seats open in any given flight, sometimes none or even over sold. There is limited seats for non-rev. Every seat you took, there would be one seat gone for others. That is why airline warns you in their non-rev guide to use your pass wisely.

The only seat that would be "gone" would be a seat that would otherwise go out empty. It's not the pass traveller's responsibility to ensure that all other pass travellers are accommodated.

chonetsao wrote:

Fourth, airlines have said clearly in their non-rev guide, that no one should misuse the non-rev privilege. Some of the misuse is outlined in the actual language. But airline has the right to suspend or revoke the privilege any time when it sees one traveller deemed to 'misuse' the privilege. Thus my question.

Once again, an abundant use of passes does not constitute abuse, otherwise every airline would be quick to impose caps on pass travel.
Abuse is when you're deriving monetary gain from your passes (by selling them), or if pass travel causes you to miss work.

chonetsao wrote:

Fifth, it does matter (at least for some airlines) that if every father, every mother or every daughter is doing the same thing. Because I knew at least one airline gives its employee and family one fifth off revenue fares any time. When there were too many stand-by people, some of them would seek to purchase the revenue ticket using the discount. That would cause airline lose of revenue.

It's the airline's responsibility to set policies that minimize revenue loss. It's unreasonable to expect passholders to arbitrarily limit themselves in the absence of an official limit. Everyone will have a different idea of what is sufficient.

chonetsao wrote:

Of course, when space is available, do enjoy the non-rev flight. And like I said many times, I personally do not think this dad did anything wrong. However, I asked a question, what is the fine line between abuse the system and what this dad is doing. No one had considered the possibility of the scenario in my second point, that is sad.

The fine line is pretty clear: Whatever that is set forth in the airline's non-rev travel policy. If there's no numerical limit delineated there, then the airline can't go after a passholder simply for using their passes a lot.

Great story, and a great thing for a father to do.

chonetsao wrote:

4engines4lnghll wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I know what you mean. But one should use ones non rev as a privilege, not entitlement. So one should not use non rev just for personal pleasure or to an extent that abuse the good will of airlines. I am only concerned that it could be seen by some one as an excessive usage of non rev privilege to fly 6 sectors in a day to be with family. What if every father or mother or daughter start to do the same thing?

As I said it is a great thing he did. And I appreciate dads motive. But my question is where to draw the line between a normal non rev that wants to be with family in holiday times and someone that use non rev privilege to the extend that seemed to be abusing the system. Just one of my innocent questions on this story.

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.

I could be overthinking. But the problem is not me. It is this dad taking his 'adventure' to the mass media, it will only take one DL executive to 'overthink' to cause changes to the non-rev policy.

DL is not going to change the non-rev policy based on one executive "overthinking." For one, that's not how decisions are made at DL. And more significantly, the unions would pull every fire alarm imaginable on that one. I think perhaps the problem with this discussion is underthinking, not overthinking.

Delta was apparently just fine with this, so it wasn't abuse. Delta management (some level of it) is the body that would determine abuse and they have said it was fine, and have even touted the story. So, no abuse, and nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for.

I just can't understand why some folks have to find something negative in what is a very warm and loving story about a father wanting to spend time with his daughter on Christmas, and her employer helping to make it happen.

chonetsao wrote:

winginit wrote:

In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.

I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travellers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.

Again, complete nonsense; and as someone who has had AA nonrev privileges for going on forty years I'd go as far as to say your AA retiree friend lied to you outright or withheld part of the story. There is no such thing, and has never been such a thing, as someone losing nonrev benefits for 'flying too much' if rules are otherwise not broken. I can attest to that personally.

chonetsao wrote:

that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.

The fine line is not so fine. It is very simple. Pass priveleges are for personal/pleasure use only. Period.

Passes may not be used for monetary gain, that is they can not be "sold" nor can they be used for your "business".

The instances noted above where people's pass priveleges have been revoked have crossed that very simple line.

But, using your passes to visit friends, visit family, attend reunions, go on vacation, fly on interesting aircraft, spend time with your daughter when she is working, going from air-show to air-show, or air museum to air museum, or simply fly to Paris for lunch on La Tour Eiffel, etc etc etc are all fine and well within the guidelines. The concept is that non-revs are using seats that would otherwise be empty when the entry door closes at departure.

I see no abuse of non rev priveledges. Delta appreciated the publicity.


Delta confirmed the news in a statement saying, "We appreciate all of our employees for working during the holidays to serve Delta customers, and love seeing this awesome Dad having the chance to spend Christmas with his daughter – even while crisscrossing the country at 30,000 feet."

chonetsao wrote:

winginit wrote:

In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.

I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travellers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.

You are not going to lose privileges for just flying around. If there is an open seat you get it, if there is not you dont, it's very clear. If this person lost their privileges there had to be some money or other compensation being exchanged (having a friend who still works for the airline book fake reservations in the system so there are open seats on the flight) or possibly this ex employee gave an agent some attitude and the agent reported them, this could also lead to a loss of privileges.

Aptivaboy wrote:

Delta was apparently just fine with this, so it wasn't abuse. Delta management (some level of it) is the body that would determine abuse and they have said it was fine, and have even touted the story. So, no abuse, and nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for.

I just can't understand why some folks have to find something negative in what is a very warm and loving story about a father wanting to spend time with his daughter on Christmas, and her employer helping to make it happen.

Call me a negative person. But I always have two concerns:
1, Should you really spend time with your relative while your relative really should concentrate on working to serve 150X6=900 passengers in the day. And all the flying, to achieve what? Just watching her doing her job, or take her to the galley and chat all the way? Spend few hours I understand, but 6 flights? Come on, where is the working ethic gone? We are talking about an adult worker who has an important job to look after passengers' well being and safety, not a teenager girl going to a party. I personally believe 6 flights following your adult daughter is too much. There is a better way to do this.
2, As I said in one of my previous post, mainline employee parents have higher priority than regional employee (at least for the airline I knew personally). Every seat this dad took on his trips would theoretically mean one regional employee's chance is gone down by one to go back home or to see his/her family, while this dad had the luxury to watching her daughter working 6 flights in a row. I won't know if any regional employee could not get on a flight as a result, but there is a possibility there, and I am sure people know how priority works between mainline employee and regional employee would understand.

I am really happy for DL to be open about this issue. Of course DL will have to be positive on this news due to the holiday spirit, and frankly, there was no written language to prevent this to happen. But, as a non-rev passengers myself, my view is different from many people here. And I believe my two concerns above is legitimate from a personal point of view. And I will stop here.