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chonetsao
Posts: 677
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:48 pm

winginit wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
winginit wrote:
In fact, at some carriers I've seen nonrev privileges gamified with full backing of the carrier. Who can rack up the most miles this weekend and not miss work on Monday? Winner gets lunch. Who can fly all equipment types in the fleet first this year? It's commonplace and often fully endorsed by the carrier.


I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travellers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.


Again, complete nonsense; and as someone who has had AA nonrev privileges for going on forty years I'd go as far as to say your AA retiree friend lied to you outright or withheld part of the story. There is no such thing, and has never been such a thing, as someone losing nonrev benefits for 'flying too much' if rules are otherwise not broken. I can attest to that personally.


Which part is 'nonsense'? Someone got travel privilege revoked? Or this person told me lies? And if so, what is your prove?

Of course this person might not tell me the whole story, but without prove, I can only take this person's word in face value, then warn the reader that, I state, there could be something else I was not told, in my post. So is that nonsense? or you would rather me to write to AA HR to ask for the old case file?

I have admitted that this was a Chinese whisper, thus made the remark that there might be information missing. I don't see how that could be nonsense. If you were accusing my point being nonsense, the reality is that you don't know how this said person's travel privilege got revoked neither, so how can you attest for people you don't know and the fact you don't know?
 
wn676
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:16 pm

chonetsao wrote:
winginit wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

I personally knew an AA retiree from west Florida, whose flight privilege was taken away because this person had abused the non-rev system. While most non-rev travellers are fine and would never thought about the word of 'abuse' the system. But there were few people got caught. Believe in me, the said person did not gain anything monetary wise, just flew too much (in the said person's own word), for personal pleasure. There could be something else I was not told. But from what I heard from this said person, that was why I would like to know what is the fine line between abuse the non-rev system and to be nice to family members.


Again, complete nonsense; and as someone who has had AA nonrev privileges for going on forty years I'd go as far as to say your AA retiree friend lied to you outright or withheld part of the story. There is no such thing, and has never been such a thing, as someone losing nonrev benefits for 'flying too much' if rules are otherwise not broken. I can attest to that personally.


Which part is 'nonsense'? Someone got travel privilege revoked? Or this person told me lies? And if so, what is your prove?

Of course this person might not tell me the whole story, but without prove, I can only take this person's word in face value, then warn the reader that, I state, there could be something else I was not told, in my post. So is that nonsense? or you would rather me to write to AA HR to ask for the old case file?

I have admitted that this was a Chinese whisper, thus made the remark that there might be information missing. I don't see how that could be nonsense. If you were accusing my point being nonsense, the reality is that you don't know how this said person's travel privilege got revoked neither, so how can you attest for people you don't know and the fact you don't know?


Those of us that actually have access to NRSA travel policies of several airlines, including American, are telling you that what that person told you is incorrect. In other words, nonsense. There are many ways you can have your travel privileges revoked, but simply “flying too much for pleasure” is absolutely not one of them.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
winginit
Posts: 2943
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:23 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Which part is 'nonsense'? Someone got travel privilege revoked? Or this person told me lies? And if so, what is your prove?


First off, it's proof, not prove.

The part that's nonsense is that someone got their AA nonrev privelages revoked for using them too much. If you were told that - it was a lie.

chonetsao wrote:
Of course this person might not tell me the whole story, but without prove, I can only take this person's word in face value, then warn the reader that, I state, there could be something else I was not told, in my post. So is that nonsense? or you would rather me to write to AA HR to ask for the old case file?


It's proof, not prove. And again, you were misled. AA nonrev privelages cannot be taken away for over-utilization. The proof that backs that claim is me having had AA nonrev for going on 40 years backed by others on this forum - some of whom work at AA today and are well versed on policy and protocol.

chonetsao wrote:
I have admitted that this was a Chinese whisper, thus made the remark that there might be information missing. I don't see how that could be nonsense. If you were accusing my point being nonsense, the reality is that you don't know how this said person's travel privilege got revoked neither, so how can you attest for people you don't know and the fact you don't know?


What I do know is that this person's nonrev privelages were not removed strictly for over-utilization, so I am, again, claiming that their story is nonsense. You were mislead. Know that.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:27 pm

estorilm wrote:
Flighty wrote:
4engines4lnghll wrote:

First off you’re over thinking it. Secondly, It’s called NONREV for a reason. You’re a non revenue passenger just filling in empty seats. I have a parent who flight for one of the US3, and that’s the whole damn point of nonrev travel. It’s for pleasure. There are deferent codes for people on the standby list that determines their place on the list. It’s not abusing anything. I’ve had a captain run back up to the gate agent to tell her to let the tower know (I think) about aircraft weight just to get ME on! It was a 757 DFW-LIM. Bottom line the whole point of the perks of working for an airline is that you can travel anywhere, anytime, and however many times you want.


He might have prevented other people from getting home for Christmas. I can remember being in that boat before, got shut out Christmas Eve, family was pretty disappointed, then made it Christmas Day. Nice story about the 757, it is always a good day when you make it on, people going the extra mile. I remember an Alaska ticket agent stayed after midnight to help all the nonrevs who got bumped from the midnight SEA flight. It probably happens every night. Not her job, but she got us rebooked, stayed there past 12am. I still remember it 10 years later, sometimes it makes a difference. I did the same too. One time I got the last seat on the last flight out, a regional. Somebody's elderly mom was right behind me, gave her my seat, so I was stuck, but I was much more equipped to figure it out (I had the skills). When you know the right thing to do, you consider yourself lucky and you do it. Can't blame the guy for wanting to be with his daughter.

Another circular and contradictory opinion by Flighty.

I think you missed the point of that poster - the ticket codes determine the order in which people are bumped, there's no way he prevented ANY paying customer from "getting home to their families" as you put it, rather sensationally I might add. No way.

I flew an old WWII warbird CJR - NAS JAX to work an airshow as I'm mx/flight crew, but had to non-rev back home to work on monday JAX - IAD (our plane was doing a show in Pensacola and prop inspection in NC afterwards). One of our mechanics works for AA so I was able to get a ticket back through him (it's all non-profit so we try to save money when possible) and I got bumped on FIVE FLIGHTS including paying for a hotel the first night because of this. I absolutely didn't complain and just dealt with it - I was grateful for the option. That was actually a PAID nonrev ticket at the reduced rate as well. It is what it is, but I watched probably 50 paying passengers bump me for various reasons - so no way, a nonrev will NOT bump paying pax lol.


I didn't mean he would bump paying passengers, I meant nonrevs. I even used myself as an example of a nonrev who was bumped off a Christmas flight. It depends how the seniority works.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:39 pm

1, Should you really spend time with your relative while your relative really should concentrate on working to serve 150X6=900 passengers in the day. And all the flying, to achieve what?


I'm sure she wasn't chit chatting with Dad the whole way, on all six flights. I'm sure she had to carry her weight and do her duties like the rest of the cabin crews. She looks pretty young and junior, from the photos on-line, so I heavily doubt that she'd be senior enough to loaf around and get away with it, even if she was of a mind to do so.

2, As I said in one of my previous post, mainline employee parents have higher priority than regional employee (at least for the airline I knew personally). Every seat this dad took on his trips would theoretically mean one regional employee's chance is gone down by one to go back home or to see his/her family, while this dad had the luxury to watching her daughter working 6 flights in a row.


We don't know that, and again, Delta was fine with it. If there was a problem or some abuse or unfairness going on, or an improper effect on other employees and their families, then Delta management would be the ones to act. They didn't, so again, not an issue.

Call me a negative person.


Actually, I resemble that remark! Seriously, I can find away to make a glass half empty! Its just that this story is a great one which warms even my Grinch-like heart, and since Delta is okay with it, I think that we all should be, too. I'll stop talking from here on. I think we've all said our views. I hope you have had a Merry Christmas and here's to a super New Year!

Bob
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7880
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:05 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Of course this person might not tell me the whole story

Bingo :thumbsup:
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7880
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:10 pm

chonetsao wrote:

Call me a negative person. But I always have two concerns:
1, Should you really spend time with your relative while your relative really should concentrate on working to serve 150X6=900 passengers in the day. And all the flying, to achieve what? Just watching her doing her job, or take her to the galley and chat all the way? Spend few hours I understand, but 6 flights? Come on, where is the working ethic gone? We are talking about an adult worker who has an important job to look after passengers' well being and safety, not a teenager girl going to a party. I personally believe 6 flights following your adult daughter is too much. There is a better way to do this.
2, As I said in one of my previous post, mainline employee parents have higher priority than regional employee (at least for the airline I knew personally). Every seat this dad took on his trips would theoretically mean one regional employee's chance is gone down by one to go back home or to see his/her family, while this dad had the luxury to watching her daughter working 6 flights in a row. I won't know if any regional employee could not get on a flight as a result, but there is a possibility there, and I am sure people know how priority works between mainline employee and regional employee would understand.

I am really happy for DL to be open about this issue. Of course DL will have to be positive on this news due to the holiday spirit, and frankly, there was no written language to prevent this to happen. But, as a non-rev passengers myself, my view is different from many people here. And I believe my two concerns above is legitimate from a personal point of view. And I will stop here.

Well, hello there Mr. Grinch. So nice you can make your yearly appearance down in Whoville!

Seriously, what your issue with this story? First you go on about this being an "abuse" of flight passes. You lost that argument. Now you start ranting on about work ethics? Jealous they have a pass and you don't?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5033
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Flightguy123 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Question: Did he travel non-rev or actually bought the revenue ticket?

I have to ask because he would qualify for non-rev travel as a parent. But using non-rev to follow family member 6 flights in a day is in a grey area of non-rev ticket usage.

No matter how he travelled it is a great father-daughter love example. But I would like to know as I am curious.


Why would that be in the grey area of a non-rev policy with DL... As long as it is not for business purposes or he isnt making money off of the nonrev ticket then he is fine. A lot of people have their spouse or a family member follow them on their legs to their overnight or back to their base. More then likely she sent him her rotation as well?

I worked for United and there wasn't a problem of I did it Non-rev. You just can't take out a revenue passenger. But? Maybe he didn't. Did you think of that??
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15744
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:55 am

Cho -

Your friend didn’t tell you the whole story. You can’t over-use non rev travel; you only get it revoked for using it to conduct non-airline business, conducting yourself in a poor manner/being abusive toward customers or co-workers while traveling.

What this dad did was fully compliant with non-rev travel policies; there was no wrongdoing. And I say this as someone who has been non-revving for over 45 years.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:39 am

chonetsao wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
Delta was apparently just fine with this, so it wasn't abuse. Delta management (some level of it) is the body that would determine abuse and they have said it was fine, and have even touted the story. So, no abuse, and nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for.

I just can't understand why some folks have to find something negative in what is a very warm and loving story about a father wanting to spend time with his daughter on Christmas, and her employer helping to make it happen.


Call me a negative person. But I always have two concerns:
1, Should you really spend time with your relative while your relative really should concentrate on working to serve 150X6=900 passengers in the day. And all the flying, to achieve what? Just watching her doing her job, or take her to the galley and chat all the way? Spend few hours I understand, but 6 flights? Come on, where is the working ethic gone? We are talking about an adult worker who has an important job to look after passengers' well being and safety, not a teenager girl going to a party. I personally believe 6 flights following your adult daughter is too much. There is a better way to do this.
2, As I said in one of my previous post, mainline employee parents have higher priority than regional employee (at least for the airline I knew personally). Every seat this dad took on his trips would theoretically mean one regional employee's chance is gone down by one to go back home or to see his/her family, while this dad had the luxury to watching her daughter working 6 flights in a row. I won't know if any regional employee could not get on a flight as a result, but there is a possibility there, and I am sure people know how priority works between mainline employee and regional employee would understand.

I am really happy for DL to be open about this issue. Of course DL will have to be positive on this news due to the holiday spirit, and frankly, there was no written language to prevent this to happen. But, as a non-rev passengers myself, my view is different from many people here. And I believe my two concerns above is legitimate from a personal point of view. And I will stop here.


Things like this happen everyday. She’s obviously doing her job right if she’s still a FA. I’ve flown with my mom many many times (even on holidays) and just because I’m there doesn’t mean she’s gojng to turn a blind eye to the other 250 passengers. You’re being ridiculous, and stand-by travel with airline employees (with my airline) is a game of check-in time and your relation to the employee (i.e. standby codes). If you really think your safety is at risk because a flight attendant or pilots family member is onboard then you need a serious reality check. Stop whining and your comment smells like some weird jealousy or just wanting to be a hater.
4engines4lnghll
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:40 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Cho -

Your friend didn’t tell you the whole story. You can’t over-use non rev travel; you only get it revoked for using it to conduct non-airline business, conducting yourself in a poor manner/being abusive toward customers or co-workers while traveling.

What this dad did was fully compliant with non-rev travel policies; there was no wrongdoing. And I say this as someone who has been non-revving for over 45 years.


THANK YOU!
4engines4lnghll
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:29 am

chonetsao wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
Delta was apparently just fine with this, so it wasn't abuse. Delta management (some level of it) is the body that would determine abuse and they have said it was fine, and have even touted the story. So, no abuse, and nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for.

I just can't understand why some folks have to find something negative in what is a very warm and loving story about a father wanting to spend time with his daughter on Christmas, and her employer helping to make it happen.


Call me a negative person. But I always have two concerns:
1, Should you really spend time with your relative while your relative really should concentrate on working to serve 150X6=900 passengers in the day. And all the flying, to achieve what? Just watching her doing her job, or take her to the galley and chat all the way? Spend few hours I understand, but 6 flights? Come on, where is the working ethic gone? We are talking about an adult worker who has an important job to look after passengers' well being and safety, not a teenager girl going to a party. I personally believe 6 flights following your adult daughter is too much. There is a better way to do this.
2, As I said in one of my previous post, mainline employee parents have higher priority than regional employee (at least for the airline I knew personally). Every seat this dad took on his trips would theoretically mean one regional employee's chance is gone down by one to go back home or to see his/her family, while this dad had the luxury to watching her daughter working 6 flights in a row. I won't know if any regional employee could not get on a flight as a result, but there is a possibility there, and I am sure people know how priority works between mainline employee and regional employee would understand.

I am really happy for DL to be open about this issue. Of course DL will have to be positive on this news due to the holiday spirit, and frankly, there was no written language to prevent this to happen. But, as a non-rev passengers myself, my view is different from many people here. And I believe my two concerns above is legitimate from a personal point of view. And I will stop here.


I doubt it was much of a distraction. And being Christmas, the mood would just be different anyhow.

FWIW, I had somewhat of the same thought as you - that his choosing to follow her around likely meant somebody else was prevented from non-reving to see their family member (or get home). I tend to skew to the more considerate side on things and would probably have done a few flights but felt bad taking space from someone else.

Having said that, it’s clear that the bottom line is that airlines won’t care because it doesn’t affect them in the least. Employees apparently are good with it because it’s a benefit and they will use it as they see fit within the rules. Seniority is a dog-eat-dog system and so you aren’t going to change any minds in that regard.

Aside from that, I’m not sure why you continue to let it bother you? It’s the system, it’s not considered an abuse, and the employees all appear to be hunky dory with it. Might as well lick the wounds and let it go.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:14 am

There is no "need" system or requirement in non revving. You can use your pass benefits as you see fit as long as you are following the rules that the company has set out for non revving. It doesn't matter that you may be bumping some other non rev. It is meant for pleasure travel. What is pleasure for one person may be different than for another. Yes, he may have bumped lower priority non revs trying to get home or on vacation but for him, spending the day with his daughter was his idea of pleasure travel. It is in no way less deserving than any other non rev that has plans.

Unless otherwise specified in the rules, non rev travel is generally unlimited at American carriers. Some fly multiple legs on every day off they have. As long as you follow the rules, the airline does't care. You are simply taking a seat that would have been empty anyways. Non rev benefits do have their detractors amongst some airline upper management who would like everyone on the plane to be paying customers but even they acknowledge that the reason they keep the benefit is because it is an important benefit that allows the retention of talented employees who stay long term due to the flight benefits. Many who are not passionate about aviation would leave for other, more stable industries without the benefits.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Dad books 6 flights to spend Xmas with FA daughter.

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:47 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
There is no "need" system or requirement in non revving. You can use your pass benefits as you see fit as long as you are following the rules that the company has set out for non revving. It doesn't matter that you may be bumping some other non rev. It is meant for pleasure travel. What is pleasure for one person may be different than for another. Yes, he may have bumped lower priority non revs trying to get home or on vacation but for him, spending the day with his daughter was his idea of pleasure travel. It is in no way less deserving than any other non rev that has plans.

This is an important point. One person's "need" does not trump someone else's. Everyone has a reason to be on the plane, no one's is more important.

Where I fly, there are however a limited number of "super seniority" passes alloted to employees. They are normally kept for special occasions or vacations, etc. Also, there are "compassionate" passes for sick or deceased family. Documention is not normally requested, but if it is ever found to be abused, then that employee will lose their non-rev priveleges and risk termination.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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