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Heinkel
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:31 pm

PW100 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
Past glory.

Virtually all the men (an maybee a few women) who designed and built these great engines in the past are dead now. No one is working for PW anymore. Success in years gone by is no guaranty for success today and in future.



Yes, those "great engines of past glory" (your words) were (much) less reliable than todays GTF. And it's not even close, but by a wide margin, like a full order of magnitude . . .


Correct but in those years, they were the best engines money could buy. No other manufacturer had more reliable or more powerful engines.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:11 am

Another engine failure in 10 days I think??

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... ies/342176
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:30 pm

I think PW/6E should keep one IL76 with spare engines, tooling and AOG team on standby.
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 2446
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:00 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
A KE A220 had a major melt down in a GTF on the 26/12/18, but that version of the GTF has had nowhere near the problems of NEO version. It may well have something to do with the way it's mounted on the NEO, but if it was that simple, you would've thought a fix would have been relatively easy to work out.

All GTF family members share a similar core. So it is logical that the highest power engines would see the most problems. Any bearing issue for instance would see more problems on the A320 version. The A220 engines the bearing would have a lower load.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 26744
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:03 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Another engine failure in 10 days I think??

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... ies/342176

Indeed. Government to review problems with Airbus A320neo aircraft says:

The government will meet various stakeholders and review the repeated problems with Pratt & Whitney’s engines equipped on Airbus A320neo aircraft on Tuesday, a senior government official told The Indian Express. The development comes after an IndiGo flight on Thursday from Chennai to Kolkata had to return mid-air after an engine glitch that was followed by “loud bang and sparks” from the power plant and smoke leading to heavy vibrations of the engine, according to sources.

This was the third incident in the last one month involving an IndiGo flight where smoke was observed during a flight. On December 10, an IndiGo aircraft made emergency landing in Kolkata after its cabin was filled with smoke. After this, on December 23, an Airbus A320neo aircraft operated by IndiGo to Kolkata from Port Blair reportedly suffered mid-air engine failure.

It's been a terrible EIS for 6E and PW.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Revelation wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Another engine failure in 10 days I think??

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... ies/342176

Indeed. Government to review problems with Airbus A320neo aircraft says:

The government will meet various stakeholders and review the repeated problems with Pratt & Whitney’s engines equipped on Airbus A320neo aircraft on Tuesday, a senior government official told The Indian Express. The development comes after an IndiGo flight on Thursday from Chennai to Kolkata had to return mid-air after an engine glitch that was followed by “loud bang and sparks” from the power plant and smoke leading to heavy vibrations of the engine, according to sources.

This was the third incident in the last one month involving an IndiGo flight where smoke was observed during a flight. On December 10, an IndiGo aircraft made emergency landing in Kolkata after its cabin was filled with smoke. After this, on December 23, an Airbus A320neo aircraft operated by IndiGo to Kolkata from Port Blair reportedly suffered mid-air engine failure.

It's been a terrible EIS for 6E and PW.


Some questions are being asked if the DGCA will suspend PW A320neo deliveries to India

“Ministry has taken serious note (of the incident) and we will review it on Tuesday,” Civil Aviation Secretary R N Choubey said in response to a PTI query.

He was asked whether the ministry will direct the aircraft maker Airbus and US-based engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney to stop deliveries unless all issues are fixed.


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/P0Kj ... oud-b.html
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:01 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Revelation wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Another engine failure in 10 days I think??

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... ies/342176

Indeed. Government to review problems with Airbus A320neo aircraft says:

The government will meet various stakeholders and review the repeated problems with Pratt & Whitney’s engines equipped on Airbus A320neo aircraft on Tuesday, a senior government official told The Indian Express. The development comes after an IndiGo flight on Thursday from Chennai to Kolkata had to return mid-air after an engine glitch that was followed by “loud bang and sparks” from the power plant and smoke leading to heavy vibrations of the engine, according to sources.

This was the third incident in the last one month involving an IndiGo flight where smoke was observed during a flight. On December 10, an IndiGo aircraft made emergency landing in Kolkata after its cabin was filled with smoke. After this, on December 23, an Airbus A320neo aircraft operated by IndiGo to Kolkata from Port Blair reportedly suffered mid-air engine failure.

It's been a terrible EIS for 6E and PW.


Some questions are being asked if the DGCA will suspend PW A320neo deliveries to India

“Ministry has taken serious note (of the incident) and we will review it on Tuesday,” Civil Aviation Secretary R N Choubey said in response to a PTI query.

He was asked whether the ministry will direct the aircraft maker Airbus and US-based engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney to stop deliveries unless all issues are fixed.


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/P0Kj ... oud-b.html

Blessing in disguise if that happens
 
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Balerit
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:34 pm

DocLightning wrote:
reltney wrote:
Yup, damn those engines on all those DC-9s 737-100/200s 707s, DC-8s, 747s, 767s,757s, 727s, Mercure, all the fighter jets powered by the J-57 and variants! Something about all those radial engines like the R-2800 in the Corsair, Thunderbolt, Bearcat, hellcat, tigercat, And the R-4360 on the B-36, c-97, B337, C-74,C124, .........well, I am tired of naming 3/4 of the airplanes in the world. Damn those at Pratt and Whitney for not knowing anything about aircraft engines. Wait, I flew F-16 and could accelerate thru Mach going strait up on a PW engine....DAMN, who wants to do that.... thanks PW for nothing......


Welcome to 2018.

Pratt & Whitney, once one of the foremost aircraft engine manufacturers in the world, a company with almost hundred years of history, a country that has powered some of the most iconic flights of all times, a company that built an engine that can accelerate through Mach 1 while flying straight up, seems to have forgotten how to design and build an engine. They messed up the casing, forgot to account for rotor bow, the bearings, and the seals. The only thing they haven't messed up is the planetary gearbox.

I was a fanboy, but it's awfully hard lately.

It has been three years since EIS and these issues are still not worked out. This isn't "teething." This is incompetence.


There was an article by Lt. Col. Fred "Spanky" Clifton who said that the P&W engines were rubbish, they flamed out if you tried to go vertical, the GE was a better engine.

Accelerating straight up? That's a myth. First off, the old coal-burning Pratt F100-100 proved troublesome. When the throttles were pushed into afterburner you weren't 100% sure if the flame would come out of the back end or the front end. Sometimes, it came out of both ends. I've flown a twin-engine glider, meaning that both engines, while still operating but producing no thrust, as they had stalled.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:18 pm

Balerit wrote:
There was an article by Lt. Col. Fred "Spanky" Clifton who said that the P&W engines were rubbish, they flamed out if you tried to go vertical, the GE was a better engine.

Accelerating straight up? That's a myth. First off, the old coal-burning Pratt F100-100 proved troublesome. When the throttles were pushed into afterburner you weren't 100% sure if the flame would come out of the back end or the front end. Sometimes, it came out of both ends. I've flown a twin-engine glider, meaning that both engines, while still operating but producing no thrust, as they had stalled.

Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F ... _structure ) has some pretty stark commentary on PW vs GE on F-14:

The F-14 was initially equipped with two Pratt & Whitney TF30 (or JTF10A) augmented turbofan engines, each rated at 20,900 lb (93 kN) of thrust, which enabled the aircraft to attain a maximum speed of Mach 2.34.[41]
...
The performance of the TF30 engine became an object of criticism. John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy in the 1980s, told the U.S. Congress that the TF30/F-14 combination was "probably the worst engine/airframe mismatch we have had in years" and that the TF30 was "a terrible engine";[38][40] 28% of all F-14 accidents were attributed to the engine. A high frequency of turbine blade failures led to the reinforcement of the entire engine bay to limit damage from such failures. The engines also had proved to be extremely prone to compressor stalls, which could easily result in loss of control, severe yaw oscillations, and could lead to an unrecoverable flat spin. At specific altitudes, exhaust produced by missile launches could cause an engine compressor stall. This led to the development of a bleed system that temporarily blocks the frontal intake ramp and reduces engine power during missile launch. With the TF30, the F-14's overall thrust-to-weight ratio at maximum takeoff weight is around 0.56, considerably less than the F-15A's ratio of 0.85; when fitted with the General Electric F110 engine, an improved thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.73 at maximum weight and 0.88 at normal takeoff weight was achieved.[41] Despite having large differences in thrust, the F-14A, F-14B, and later F-14D with the newer GE F-110 engines were rated at the same top speed.[43][44]

GE 110 was basically 20 years newer technology but still the PW TF30 really held back the F-14.

The Navy originally could have moved a bit forward and used the PW F100 that went on to F-15 but chose to go with the "proven" tech and in the end it really held back the F-14.

The GE 110 had the same core technology designed for the B-1 that ended up being the core of the CFM-56. Needless to say it was a great advance.
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1613
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:21 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Revelation wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Another engine failure in 10 days I think??

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... ies/342176

Indeed. Government to review problems with Airbus A320neo aircraft says:

The government will meet various stakeholders and review the repeated problems with Pratt & Whitney’s engines equipped on Airbus A320neo aircraft on Tuesday, a senior government official told The Indian Express. The development comes after an IndiGo flight on Thursday from Chennai to Kolkata had to return mid-air after an engine glitch that was followed by “loud bang and sparks” from the power plant and smoke leading to heavy vibrations of the engine, according to sources.

This was the third incident in the last one month involving an IndiGo flight where smoke was observed during a flight. On December 10, an IndiGo aircraft made emergency landing in Kolkata after its cabin was filled with smoke. After this, on December 23, an Airbus A320neo aircraft operated by IndiGo to Kolkata from Port Blair reportedly suffered mid-air engine failure.

It's been a terrible EIS for 6E and PW.


Some questions are being asked if the DGCA will suspend PW A320neo deliveries to India

“Ministry has taken serious note (of the incident) and we will review it on Tuesday,” Civil Aviation Secretary R N Choubey said in response to a PTI query.

He was asked whether the ministry will direct the aircraft maker Airbus and US-based engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney to stop deliveries unless all issues are fixed.


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/P0Kj ... oud-b.html


Can P&W be blamed for the series of incidents affecting Indigo flights? Have any other airlines operating the A320NEO with PW engines faced similar issues? Another Indian LCC GoAir also operates the same aircraft/engine combo and we havent heard of them facing the issue.

Could it be something specific to Indigo and its maintenance practices? There should be a thorough, unbiased investigation into these incidents to get to the root of the problem. Till the completion of the investigation, all A320neo with PW engines should be grounded. After all, peoples lives are at stake. Are we going to wait for fatalities (god forbid) before we take action?

There is precedence for this sort of action by the DGCA/AAIB. All A320's were grounded following the crash of Indian Airlines IC605 in Bangalore in 1990. Back then, the aircraft was blamed for the crash. But subsequent investigation showed the reasons to be pilot error. Major changes were incorporated into training procedures for advanced FBW aircraft like the A320 which went on to have an illustrious career in the Indian Aviation market.

Lets not jump to conclusions on a serious issue like this. We need to focus our attention on and put pressure for a thorough investigation into the cause.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:37 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Indeed. Government to review problems with Airbus A320neo aircraft says:


It's been a terrible EIS for 6E and PW.


Some questions are being asked if the DGCA will suspend PW A320neo deliveries to India

“Ministry has taken serious note (of the incident) and we will review it on Tuesday,” Civil Aviation Secretary R N Choubey said in response to a PTI query.

He was asked whether the ministry will direct the aircraft maker Airbus and US-based engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney to stop deliveries unless all issues are fixed.


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/P0Kj ... oud-b.html


Can P&W be blamed for the series of incidents affecting Indigo flights? Have any other airlines operating the A320NEO with PW engines faced similar issues? Another Indian LCC GoAir also operates the same aircraft/engine combo and we havent heard of them facing the issue.

Could it be something specific to Indigo and its maintenance practices? There should be a thorough, unbiased investigation into these incidents to get to the root of the problem. Till the completion of the investigation, all A320neo with PW engines should be grounded. After all, peoples lives are at stake. Are we going to wait for fatalities (god forbid) before we take action?

There is precedence for this sort of action by the DGCA/AAIB. All A320's were grounded following the crash of Indian Airlines IC605 in Bangalore in 1990. Back then, the aircraft was blamed for the crash. But subsequent investigation showed the reasons to be pilot error. Major changes were incorporated into training procedures for advanced FBW aircraft like the A320 which went on to have an illustrious career in the Indian Aviation market.

Lets not jump to conclusions on a serious issue like this. We need to focus our attention on and put pressure for a thorough investigation into the cause.


IndiGo is by far the biggest A320neo operator. Since they have more planes than anyone else, statistics favor them seeing more issues than other airlines.
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1613
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:03 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
IndiGo is by far the biggest A320neo operator. Since they have more planes than anyone else, statistics favor them seeing more issues than other airlines.


Ofcourse! But in cases like these, it is important to go into the details without systemic bias. It is important to a thorough root-cause analysis. Lives are at stake here and we cannot afford to ignore any angle.

If other operators are also facing these same issues, then P&W will have a lot of answering and course-correction to do. If however, we are seeing incidents only at one airline and not the others, perhaps the reasons lie elsewhere?

Possibility no?
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 2446
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:04 am

If parts are failing due to wear, friction and overheating then the hot climate could be a contributing factor.

I know sand in the middle east has been a problem in the past.
 
Newbiepilot
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:12 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
IndiGo is by far the biggest A320neo operator. Since they have more planes than anyone else, statistics favor them seeing more issues than other airlines.


Ofcourse! But in cases like these, it is important to go into the details without systemic bias. It is important to a thorough root-cause analysis. Lives are at stake here and we cannot afford to ignore any angle.

If other operators are also facing these same issues, then P&W will have a lot of answering and course-correction to do. If however, we are seeing incidents only at one airline and not the others, perhaps the reasons lie elsewhere?

Possibility no?


I agree proper investigation is required. I don’t make any specific assumptions on cause. However typically V2500 and CFM56 engines are not removed this early in their life. I would be surprised if it maintenance procedures at a specific airline would be the root cause for engine failures/shutdowns with less than 10,000 hours on them. Everything is still within the warranty period still .
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:19 am

RJMAZ wrote:
If parts are failing due to wear, friction and overheating then the hot climate could be a contributing factor.

I know sand in the middle east has been a problem in the past.



That is a possibility. Perhaps the PW GTF engines are having trouble with the tropical weather extremes in India.

But then this should have an impact on GoAir too which operates the same engine on their A320NEO. So far atleast, we havent heard of such news from them.


One pattern I have observed in the incidents so far - almost all cases the aircraft was departing from a coastal station. Could the combination of high temperatures, humidity and salinity be affecting the engine?
 
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CALTECH
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:21 am

reltney wrote:
Yup, damn those engines on all those DC-9s 737-100/200s 707s, DC-8s, 747s, 767s,757s, 727s, Mercure, all the fighter jets powered by the J-57 and variants! Something about all those radial engines like the R-2800 in the Corsair, Thunderbolt, Bearcat, hellcat, tigercat, And the R-4360 on the B-36, c-97, B337, C-74,C124, .........well, I am tired of naming 3/4 of the airplanes in the world. Damn those at Pratt and Whitney for not knowing anything about aircraft engines. Wait, I flew F-16 and could accelerate thru Mach going strait up on a PW engine....DAMN, who wants to do that.... thanks PW for nothing......


Hey, you forgot all those B-52s, KC-135s and C-141s. Don't leave the bombers, tankers and transports out of the list. They received some P & W love too....
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:17 am

Go Air in India has also had its share of troubles.

IndiGo, GoAir Ground 9 A320 Neos Due To Engine Trouble

: Days after a fire scare, yet another Airbus A-320 new engine option (Neo) with Pratt and Whitney engines made an emergency landing
in Delhi after an engine problem on Tuesday morning. GoAir's Mumbai-Delhi flight (G8 329) with 183 passengers on board experienced a technical
snag on one of the engines of the A-320 Neo.
"The captain of flight G8 329 did a normal landing at Delhi airport. However due to a technical snag on the air bleed system he had to reduce the
power on left engine and he requested for emergency assistance during landing. The aircraft landed safely at 8.06am with 183 passengers. After initial
inspection the snag was rectified by replacing a component. The aircraft has been cleared for operations," a statement by GoAir said.
...


GoAir's A320 neo plane faces glitch

GoAir grounds 4 Airbus 320neo aircraft in Delhi

Yet another Pratt engine snag forces GoAir A320 Neo to returnto Delhi soon after take off

Now, vibrations on Pratt engine force GoAir A-320 Neo to return to Bangalore soon after take off
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:45 am

It is not clear how many of the 511 delivered A32Xs are GTF.

Indigo - 52
Go Air - 19
Lufthansa - 13 (not sure if all are GTF)
Rest of the double-digit deliveries are to lease companies making it difficult to find GTF operators.

2017-18 A20N engine issue incidents based on avherald.

Indigo - 15 (52 frames)
Go Air - 1 (19 frames)
Lufthansa - 1(13 frames)
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:12 am

Go Air has grounded 7 planes waiting for P&W engine replacements...

GoAir grounds 7 P&W engines-powered A320 Neos

MUMBAI: The recurring glitches on the Pratt & Whitney-powered Airbus planes have forced the Wadia group-run budget carrier GoAir to ground as many as seven A320 Neos, a source said Monday.

The city-headquartered airline has 49 planes in the fleet and 30 of them are Airbus A320 Neos.


...

GoAir is unable to operate seven of its A320 Neos due to the P&W engine problems. Currently, these planes are grounded and awaiting engine replacements," a source close to the development told PTI.

Most of these aircraft are grounded in Mumbai while some are parked in Delhi, the source said.
...
 
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usair330
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:48 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:52 am

reltney wrote:
Yup, damn those engines on all those DC-9s 737-100/200s 707s, DC-8s, 747s, 767s,757s, 727s, Mercure, all the fighter jets powered by the J-57 and variants! Something about all those radial engines like the R-2800 in the Corsair, Thunderbolt, Bearcat, hellcat, tigercat, And the R-4360 on the B-36, c-97, B337, C-74,C124, .........well, I am tired of naming 3/4 of the airplanes in the world. Damn those at Pratt and Whitney for not knowing anything about aircraft engines. Wait, I flew F-16 and could accelerate thru Mach going strait up on a PW engine....DAMN, who wants to do that.... thanks PW for nothing......


Hilarious!
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3646
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:40 am

BawliBooch wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
If parts are failing due to wear, friction and overheating then the hot climate could be a contributing factor.

I know sand in the middle east has been a problem in the past.



That is a possibility. Perhaps the PW GTF engines are having trouble with the tropical weather extremes in India.

But then this should have an impact on GoAir too which operates the same engine on their A320NEO. So far atleast, we havent heard of such news from them.


One pattern I have observed in the incidents so far - almost all cases the aircraft was departing from a coastal station. Could the combination of high temperatures, humidity and salinity be affecting the engine?



Looks like we know GoAir is grounding planes. If the unique actions being done by IndiGo causing inflight shutdowns is that they actually fly their airplanes, I can’t really blame IndiGo. It is hard to make a $300,000 lease payments when not flying planes.


blrsea wrote:
Go Air has grounded 7 planes waiting for P&W engine replacements...

GoAir grounds 7 P&W engines-powered A320 Neos

MUMBAI: The recurring glitches on the Pratt & Whitney-powered Airbus planes have forced the Wadia group-run budget carrier GoAir to ground as many as seven A320 Neos, a source said Monday.

The city-headquartered airline has 49 planes in the fleet and 30 of them are Airbus A320 Neos.


...

GoAir is unable to operate seven of its A320 Neos due to the P&W engine problems. Currently, these planes are grounded and awaiting engine replacements," a source close to the development told PTI.

Most of these aircraft are grounded in Mumbai while some are parked in Delhi, the source said.
...


How many PW A320neos are currently grounded worldwide?
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1613
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:48 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Looks like we know GoAir is grounding planes. If the unique actions being done by IndiGo causing inflight shutdowns is that they actually fly their airplanes, I can’t really blame IndiGo. It is hard to make a $300,000 lease payments when not flying planes.


There is a big difference. GoAir has pre-emptively grounded 7 out of 19 NEO aircraft to make safety checks. This is pre-emptive action. Indigo's approach is to damn safety and fly the planes till one of them pops a seal. Tells you a lot about the differing ethical and safety standards at both airlines.

Since when is lack of respect for passenger safety become a good thing? When did we become THAT society?

While Indigo with 59 NEO's has had over 30 incidents on its NEO fleet so far, GoAir with 19 NEO's has had ONE - one of ther A320's departing IXL (alt 10000ft+) had an inflight shutdown. But look at the differing approach between the airlines towards public safety! Stunning!

Another reason, I will never step aboard an Indigo aircraft.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:26 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
If parts are failing due to wear, friction and overheating then the hot climate could be a contributing factor.

I know sand in the middle east has been a problem in the past.



That is a possibility. Perhaps the PW GTF engines are having trouble with the tropical weather extremes in India.

But then this should have an impact on GoAir too which operates the same engine on their A320NEO. So far atleast, we havent heard of such news from them.


One pattern I have observed in the incidents so far - almost all cases the aircraft was departing from a coastal station. Could the combination of high temperatures, humidity and salinity be affecting the engine?



Looks like we know GoAir is grounding planes. If the unique actions being done by IndiGo causing inflight shutdowns is that they actually fly their airplanes, I can’t really blame IndiGo. It is hard to make a $300,000 lease payments when not flying planes.


blrsea wrote:
Go Air has grounded 7 planes waiting for P&W engine replacements...

GoAir grounds 7 P&W engines-powered A320 Neos

MUMBAI: The recurring glitches on the Pratt & Whitney-powered Airbus planes have forced the Wadia group-run budget carrier GoAir to ground as many as seven A320 Neos, a source said Monday.

The city-headquartered airline has 49 planes in the fleet and 30 of them are Airbus A320 Neos.


...

GoAir is unable to operate seven of its A320 Neos due to the P&W engine problems. Currently, these planes are grounded and awaiting engine replacements," a source close to the development told PTI.

Most of these aircraft are grounded in Mumbai while some are parked in Delhi, the source said.
...


How many PW A320neos are currently grounded worldwide?

Do the 7 of 30 have the botched seal replacement?

Lightsaber
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:56 am

blrsea wrote:
Go Air in India has also had its share of troubles.

IndiGo, GoAir Ground 9 A320 Neos Due To Engine Trouble

: Days after a fire scare, yet another Airbus A-320 new engine option (Neo) with Pratt and Whitney engines made an emergency landing
in Delhi after an engine problem on Tuesday morning. GoAir's Mumbai-Delhi flight (G8 329) with 183 passengers on board experienced a technical
snag on one of the engines of the A-320 Neo.
"The captain of flight G8 329 did a normal landing at Delhi airport. However due to a technical snag on the air bleed system he had to reduce the
power on left engine and he requested for emergency assistance during landing. The aircraft landed safely at 8.06am with 183 passengers. After initial
inspection the snag was rectified by replacing a component. The aircraft has been cleared for operations," a statement by GoAir said.
...


GoAir's A320 neo plane faces glitch

GoAir grounds 4 Airbus 320neo aircraft in Delhi

Yet another Pratt engine snag forces GoAir A320 Neo to returnto Delhi soon after take off

Now, vibrations on Pratt engine force GoAir A-320 Neo to return to Bangalore soon after take off


There has been at least four incidents in Go Air too over the last few months. And there is no report on whether the aircraft is grounded for preemptive maintenance, or grounded due to advise from P&W, in which case all airlines would follow it.

Indigo has a strong agreement with P&W which includes penalties for engine issues, as can be seen from their previous annual reports. So there is a good chance P&W might be attending to Indigo first compared to Go Air
 
dtw2hyd
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:06 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Looks like we know GoAir is grounding planes. If the unique actions being done by IndiGo causing inflight shutdowns is that they actually fly their airplanes, I can’t really blame IndiGo. It is hard to make a $300,000 lease payments when not flying planes.


There is a big difference. GoAir has pre-emptively grounded 7 out of 19 NEO aircraft to make safety checks. This is pre-emptive action. Indigo's approach is to damn safety and fly the planes till one of them pops a seal. Tells you a lot about the differing ethical and safety standards at both airlines.


Actually, Go Air has 30 NEOs per planespotters, (Wiki had a wrong number 19). One recorded engine incident with 30 frames is actually good (vs) 15 incidents with 52 frames.
 
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:42 pm

blrsea wrote:
Go Air has grounded 7 planes waiting for P&W engine replacements...

GoAir grounds 7 P&W engines-powered A320 Neos

MUMBAI: The recurring glitches on the Pratt & Whitney-powered Airbus planes have forced the Wadia group-run budget carrier GoAir to ground as many as seven A320 Neos, a source said Monday.

The city-headquartered airline has 49 planes in the fleet and 30 of them are Airbus A320 Neos.


...

GoAir is unable to operate seven of its A320 Neos due to the P&W engine problems. Currently, these planes are grounded and awaiting engine replacements," a source close to the development told PTI.

Most of these aircraft are grounded in Mumbai while some are parked in Delhi, the source said.
...


I wonder if this is related to India to question Airbus, IndiGo, others on Pratt & Whitney engine woes -sources which says:

Indian carriers IndiGo and GoAir, aircraft manufacturer Airbus and engine maker Pratt & Whitney will meet Indian civil aviation ministry officials on Tuesday to discuss ongoing issues with engines fitted to A320neo planes, three people familiar with the matter told Reuters.

IndiGo, India’s biggest carrier by market share, and rival GoAir were forced to ground Airbus A320neo aircraft on several occasions over the past year due to problems with the planes’ Pratt & Whitney engines.

And:

The government officials at the meeting may ask the airlines to refrain from putting into service further planes fitted with the engines - and even ground existing ones - until problems are resolved, the Economic Times newspaper reported earlier on Tuesday, citing an unidentified source.

Note both airlines will be represented at the meeting.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:56 pm

Looks like PW is prioritizing 6E engine swaps while G8 frames waiting long term on the ground. Both have brand new planes with engines under warranty, but probably G8 has a sloppy contract. Meanwhile, G8 is getting "lack of spares" treatment as if it is its own fault.

Also, no one seems to have a summary of how many NEO/GTFs were delivered and how many engine incidents occurred by the operator. Numbers are all over the place.

DGCA/MoCA decision will be based on what 6E wants to do, if it wants to continue to add capacity, the government will have no issue giving them their seal of approval. It if wants to slow down capacity addition, the government will put a stop to deliveries.
 
dtw2hyd
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Another PW engine fails in A320 Neo aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:32 am

As expected after a lengthy review of DGCA/MoCA of India expressed satisfaction with GTF engine safety. IFSD rates are well within limits, no issues.

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