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enilria
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OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:33 pm

FAQ

AS OF JULY 2018 THERE ARE CHANGES TO THE FORMAT OF THIS REPORT...SEE BELOW

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares departures for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...prior year departures are now shown in brackets e.g. [0].

THE SCHEDULES SHOWN HERE CHANGE AFTER YOU POST???
-To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often---Winston Churchill. This is data the carriers filed at the point in time it was captured. It's changed since then. You are just going to have to live with it.

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4]
XXX Departure IATA code, YYY Arrival IATA code, Month, Average Departures/Day over the month for sale as of last week, Average Departures/Day over the month for sale as of this week, in brackets is the number of Average Departures/Day over the month that were scheduled one year earlier. So, it means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. It also means that there were 4 roundtrips the prior year in each month. No other months were changed. I average two directions.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
NEW CHANGE-Sometimes airlines do not load their schedules for the entire 330 day standard sales window. Southwest and many LCCs load their schedules for as little as 5 months into the future. When these flight are extended into a new sales month, it becomes a "schedule change". Previously, I have manually deleted these in many cases and replaced them with a Year-Over-Year compare. Effective immediately, this will now change. When a flight is loaded from 0 departures X departures, where X was the same the prior year, the record will not be shown. For example, if Delta loaded ATL-EGE MAR 0>1(1), it would not be shown because this additional flight does not represent a real year-over-year addition. Similarly, if B6 extended their schedule a record like this ATL-BOS JUL 0>4(4) would not be shown. It will be shown if the flight frequency changed from the prior year. So B6 ATL-BOS JUL 0>3(4) would be shown. If a partial month was loaded in a core schedule that became a full schedule month, those changes may be shown under this logic. For example, WN BNA-SEA 0.3>2(2). Because only a fraction of the month was previously loaded for sale, these changes will not be filtered out. I may, however, manually remove them to declutter.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month. The following criteria are used to show a change: 1) The change must be at least 6 roundtrips per month with no exceptions, 2) changes of at least 6/week are always shown, 3) routes that are added or dropped are shown subject to the change minimum, and 4) in all other cases routes must change by 20% to be shown. For example, if a route changed from 21/week to 18/week it would not be shown because the change is -14.3%. This is done to filter minor changes that occur in large numbers.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. If the route has more than 2 daily flights, departures are rounded, but in cases of less than 2 departures per day a fraction is shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
Seats are not shown. That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard or overlapping schedule periods that see the same flight number in two places at once. These cause flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

SHORT with the holiday, but quite a few interesting things...

9V BLA-MIA JAN 0.7>0.9[0.9] FEB 0.7>0.4[1.0] MAR 0.7>0.4[1.0] APR 0.7>0.4[1.0] MAY 0.7>0.5[1.0] JUN 0.7>0.4[1.0] JUL 0.7>0.4[1.0] AUG 0.7>0.5[1.0] SEP 0.7>0.4[1.0]
9V CCS-MIA FEB 0.9>0.1[1.0] MAR 0.9>0.2[1.0] APR 0.8>0.1[1.0] MAY 0.9>0.2[1.0] JUN 0.9>0.1[1.0] JUL 0.8>0.1[1.0] AUG 0.9>0.2[1.0] SEP 0.9>0.1[1.0]

AV LAX-SAL JAN 2>3[3]

CA PEK-SFO APR 1.0>1.4[1.0] MAY 1.0>1.5[1.0] JUN 1.0>1.4[1.0] JUL 1.0>1.4[1.0] AUG 1.0>1.4[1.0] SEP 1.0>1.4[1.0]

DL ATL-CHA APR 10>9[9] JUL 9>10[9] AUG 9>10[9]
DL ATL-DEN SEP 8>9[7]
DL ATL-DFW MAR 11>10[10] APR 11>10[11]
DL ATL-EVV SEP 3>4[3]
DL ATL-FLL SEP 13>12[11]
DL ATL-IAD JUL 6>7[6] AUG 6>7[6]
DL ATL-MCI SEP 8>7[7]
Odd they would increase ONTATL in September when it is a new route and SEP is a weak month.
DL ATL-ONT SEP 1.0>1.9[0]
DL ATL-YVR SEP 0.7>0.5[0.4]
DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]
DL BGR-LGA JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3]
DL BNA-SLC JUN 1.8>1.3[1.0]
DL BOS-IND SEP 3>4[2]
DL BOS-SEA SEP 2>3[2]
DL CAE-LGA JUN 0.9>1.4[1.0] JUL 0.8>1.4[0.8] AUG 1.0>1.4[1.0] SEP 0.9>1.7[0.8]
DL CHA-DTW JUN 2>1.8[1.5]
DL CHO-LGA JUN 1.7>2[1.0] JUL 1.6>2[1.0] AUG 1.7>2[1.0] SEP 1.9>3[1.0]
DL CHS-DTW JUN 3>2[2.0]
DL CMH-SLC JUN 0.5>0.3[0]
DL DTW-MCO SEP 6>5[5]
DL HNL-SEA SEP 2>1.5[1.0]
DL IDA-SLC AUG 5>4[5]
DL ISN-MSP JUN 2>3[2] JUL 2>3[2] AUG 2>3[2] SEP 2>3[2]
DL JFK-SAN SEP 4>3[3]
DL JFK-SEA SEP 4>5[5]
DL LAS-SLC SEP 6>5[6]
DL LAX-PDX SEP 5>6[5]
**DL LAX-SAL MAY 1.0>0[0.8] JUN 1.0>0[0.9] JUL 1.0>0[0.9] AUG 1.0>0[0.8] SEP 1.0>0[0.9]
DL LGA-YOW JUN 1.7>2[1.0] JUL 1.6>2[1.0] AUG 1.7>2[1.0]
DL MCO-SEA SEP 0.9>0.7[0.7]
DL RDM-SEA JUN 2>3[2] JUL 2>3[2] AUG 2>3[2] SEP 2>3[2]
**DL SEA-YEG JUN 1.0>0.2[1.9] JUL 1.0>0[2.0] AUG 1.0>0[2] SEP 0.8>0[2]

GV CLP-DLG JAN 1.7>0.9[0.9] FEB 1.7>0.9[0.9] MAR 1.7>0.8[0.8] APR 1.7>0.9[1.7] MAY 1.7>0.9[1.7] JUN 1.7>0.8[1.4] JUL 1.7>0.9[1.4] AUG 1.7>0.9[1.4] SEP 1.7>0.8[1.4]
GV CLP-KMO JAN 0>0.8[0] FEB 0>0.9[0] MAR 0>0.8[0] APR 0>0.9[0] MAY 0>0.9[0] JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>0.9[0] AUG 0>0.9[0] SEP 0>0.8[0]
GV CLP-WSN JAN 1.7>0.1[0.9] FEB 1.7>0[0.9] MAR 1.7>0[0.8] APR 1.7>0[1.7] MAY 1.7>0[1.7] JUN 1.7>0[1.4] JUL 1.7>0[1.4] AUG 1.7>0[1.4] SEP 1.7>0[1.4]
GV DLG-KMO JAN 0>1.5[1.3] FEB 0>1.7[1.3] MAR 0>1.7[1.3] APR 0>1.7[0] MAY 0>1.7[0] JUN 0>1.7[0] JUL 0>1.7[0] AUG 0>1.7[0] SEP 0>1.7[0]
GV DLG-WSN JAN 0>1.5[0] FEB 0>1.7[0] MAR 0>1.7[0] APR 0>1.7[0] MAY 0>1.7[0] JUN 0>1.7[0.9] JUL 0>1.7[0.8] AUG 0>1.7[0.9] SEP 0>1.7[0.8]

JJ FOR-MIA SEP 0.3>0.7[0.4]

OZ ICN-ORD AUG 1.0>0.7[1.0] SEP 1.0>0.7[1.0]

Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]

UA AUA-EWR MAY 1.6>2[1.8] JUN 1.1>1.6[1.3]
UA BZN-SFO JUN 0.7>1.5[1.7] JUL 1.1>2[2] AUG 1.5>2[2]
UA CID-DEN JUN 2>3[2] JUL 2>3[2] AUG 2>3[2]
UA COD-DEN JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 2>3[2]
UA DEN-TPA AUG 3>2[2]
UA EWR-MBJ JUN 1.1>1.4[1.1]
UA EWR-NAS AUG 0.7>1.0[0.7] SEP 0.1>1.0[0.2]
UA EWR-PLS MAY 0.6>1.0[0.6] JUN 0.6>0.8[0.6]
UA EWR-POP JUN 0.7>0.9[0.6]
*UA EWR-POS MAY 0>1.0[0] JUN 0.1>1.0[0.1] AUG 0.6>1.0[0.6] SEP 0>1.0[0]
UA EWR-PUJ JUN 2>3[2]
UA EWR-SDQ MAY 1.0>2[1.0] JUN 1.4>2[1.0] AUG 1.6>2[1.0] SEP 1.0>2[1.0]
UA EWR-SJO JUN 1.3>2.0[1.3] AUG 1.7>2[1.7] SEP 1.0>2[1.0]
UA EWR-SJU JUN 0.9>1.2[0.9]
*UA HDN-IAH JUN 0.4>0[0.1] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.6>0[0.7]
UA IAH-NAS MAY 1.1>2[1.1]
UA IAH-PTY MAY 2>3[2] SEP 2>3[2]
UA IAH-STT JUN 0.2>0.4[0.0]
UA JAC-SFO JUN 0.8>1.1[0.8] JUL 1.0>1.3[1.0] AUG 1.0>1.3[1.0]
UA SFO-SUN JUN 0.8>0.4[0.1]
 
babastud
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:45 pm

CA PEK-SFO APR 1.0>1.4[1.0]

I think this is the first time CA has done more then one daily to SFO?
 
kavok
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:59 pm

Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?
 
tbboko802
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:07 pm

*UA HDN-IAH JUN 0.4>0[0.1] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.6>0[0.7]


This drop does not make a lot of sense to me as the loads had been pretty high (high 70's to mid 80s) for months.
Be Open to Change
 
tbboko802
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:23 pm

*UA HDN-IAH JUN 0.4>0[0.1] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.6>0[0.7]


This drop does not make a lot of sense to me as the loads had been pretty high (high 70's to mid 80s) for months.


My mistake. I did not realized that it is mormally a seasonal route.
Be Open to Change
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:33 pm

kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?

Thanks. And Good point...
tbboko802 wrote:
*UA HDN-IAH JUN 0.4>0[0.1] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 0.6>0[0.7]


This drop does not make a lot of sense to me as the loads had been pretty high (high 70's to mid 80s) for months.


My mistake. I did not realized that it is mormally a seasonal route.

They flew it last Summer as noted. Obviously it is more of a Winter ski route, though.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:38 pm

kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?


Is there sufficient traffic? I believe AS still operates the route, and WS is much more Calgary-centric. I suppose they could throw a DH4 on the route as a test.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
flyfresno
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:48 pm

enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...
 
maverick4002
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:56 pm

Hmm good for Port of Spain to get UA daily in the summer months now. I know they do well from Houston. I wonder why the change now. Most of the diaspora is in the Brooklyn/Queens area.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:56 pm

enilria wrote:
Odd they would increase ONTATL in September when it is a new route and SEP is a weak month.


It was reduced last week, back to where it was before then now
UA DL LH NW AA --- Next IND-ATL-DEN: WN 73G/738
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
usflyguy
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:01 pm

flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


Any chance enilria gets to throw a dig at WN, he does. It's better to just ignore it than try to have dialogue about WN.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:15 pm

Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable. Also, SEA-MCO continues to struggle to maintain daily service.
 
KarlB737
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:20 pm

enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:25 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable.


Struggling with 160 flights a day...
 
panamair
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:29 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable. Also, SEA-MCO continues to struggle to maintain daily service.


And yet with this update, DL at SEA actually has a net INCREASE year over year:

YEG: -2
HNL: +0.5
RDM: +1
BOS: +1
Last edited by panamair on Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
F27500
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:30 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


It is a very silly sounding name .. Kalamazoo .. maybe people are embarrassed to go there? :P
 
MIflyer12
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:30 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


Early death throes of another small airport. AZO travelers can drive an hour to GRR which has more than 10x the passenger count.
 
UALifer
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:37 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


Go back a couple weeks and you’ll notice AA and UA also removed quite a bit of their ORD service in June. I believe AZO is closing for a few weeks in June to do some runway construction.
 
joeblow10
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:41 pm

Uh... SY already runs PDX-HNL
 
many321
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:45 pm

Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.
 
axiom
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:56 pm

UALifer wrote:
KarlB737 wrote:
enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


Go back a couple weeks and you’ll notice AA and UA also removed quite a bit of their ORD service in June. I believe AZO is closing for a few weeks in June to do some runway construction.


Correct. The main runway is closing for two weeks in June for rehabilitation. There are two other runways, but presumably they are not adequate for commercial service.

I was shocked when I saw this decrease, before double checking the news. AZO is a relatively prosperous area, and airfares generally command a healthy premium over GRR. It’s also a great little airport.
 
continental004
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:56 pm

many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


Probably low yields, traffic to SAL is generally low-yield VFR and AV has the upper hand.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:59 pm

flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


Yep. And had scheduled service to London a few years back.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:59 pm

flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


SY flew MSP-YQX-LGW a few summers ago for the express purpose of getting their ETOPS program established and certified.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:00 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable. Also, SEA-MCO continues to struggle to maintain daily service.


Just curious what the evidence is that they struggle in SEA?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
many321
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:07 pm

continental004 wrote:
many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


Probably low yields, traffic to SAL is generally low-yield VFR and AV has the upper hand.
if that's the case, and knowing how DL quickly cuts unprofitable routes, they should had cut it early 2015 since they started the route in summer of 2014. Only thing, I could see that made them cut it is the entry of Volaris.
 
Bingo1
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:26 pm

kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?


When DL added SEA-YEG I was surprised but I was even more surprised when it stayed around and now I'm surprised after 2-3 years they're pulling it.

We won't see WS on this route any time soon. When coming from Northern Alberta I prefer transborder in YEG versus the airport with "little man syndrome" but Westjet routes virtually all transborder through YYC. If Westjet goes to SEA it will be through YVR or YEG.

AS still flies the SEA-YEG route so it remains to be seen if there will be a capacity change. Before DL joined the party they were going thrice a day with a Q400.

Side note. What did NW do different that DL is not doing in regards to Canadian and Western Canadian traffic? They've ceded the bulk of the transborder traffic to UA and given up on many routes and cities since the merger. I only know of one city in Western Canada (YXE) that has similar daily seat counts today compared to pre-merger.
Planecrzy
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
KarlB737 wrote:
enilria wrote:

DL AZO-DTW JUN 5>1.8[5]
DL AZO-MSP JUN 1.7>0.6[1.7]


Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


Early death throes of another small airport. AZO travelers can drive an hour to GRR which has more than 10x the passenger count.

Or SBN.
The Kazoo area is a primary victim of overseas outforcing. Once home to several Fortune 500 hq’s (Whirlpool, Kellogg, Case, etc.) and numerous large factories, it was a wealthy area. All of that is gone now.
Last edited by FlyingElvii on Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avi8
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:57 pm

continental004 wrote:
many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


Probably low yields, traffic to SAL is generally low-yield VFR and AV has the upper hand.


it will be interesting if DL sustains the fight in the GUA-LAX market. Avianca launched a second daily flight and volaris joined the party as well.
avi8

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wedgetail737
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:02 pm

Bingo1 wrote:
kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?


When DL added SEA-YEG I was surprised but I was even more surprised when it stayed around and now I'm surprised after 2-3 years they're pulling it.

We won't see WS on this route any time soon. When coming from Northern Alberta I prefer transborder in YEG versus the airport with "little man syndrome" but Westjet routes virtually all transborder through YYC. If Westjet goes to SEA it will be through YVR or YEG.

AS still flies the SEA-YEG route so it remains to be seen if there will be a capacity change. Before DL joined the party they were going thrice a day with a Q400.

Side note. What did NW do different that DL is not doing in regards to Canadian and Western Canadian traffic? They've ceded the bulk of the transborder traffic to UA and given up on many routes and cities since the merger. I only know of one city in Western Canada (YXE) that has similar daily seat counts today compared to pre-merger.


Yeah...I'm a little surprised that DL is dropping the SEA-YEG route. I kind of wondered if the connection traffic is not there either. If it doesn't provide an opening for WS, does this provide an opportunity for another new SEA route like SEA-DFW? Gate space for DL is pretty scarce, especially with the construction in their areas.
 
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janders
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:05 pm

many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


:old:

Airline rule # 1:
Full plane doesn't mean its a profitable flight



DL probably dropped route for the same reasons AA and UA did in the past -- lack of $$$
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
amcnd
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:09 pm

Maybe most there pax are going east out of YEG. So there MSP flight is good enough...
 
sunking737
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:16 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Uh... SY already runs PDX-HNL


They are extending this service longer. It was to be seasonal.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:22 pm

usflyguy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


Any chance enilria gets to throw a dig at WN, he does. It's better to just ignore it than try to have dialogue about WN.

Thanks. You really don't think it has taken an unusually long time for WN to be able to add Hawaii service? Or code share?

Or effectively sell tickets outside the United States?

2Q2018 % Originating traffic in MEX
AA 38.1%
B6 47.4%
UA 39.2%
WN 24.9%

This is why they gave slots back. I have to wonder how many of those originating tickets were even sold in Pesos. Probably close to zero
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:10 pm

enilria wrote:
usflyguy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


Any chance enilria gets to throw a dig at WN, he does. It's better to just ignore it than try to have dialogue about WN.

Thanks. You really don't think it has taken an unusually long time for WN to be able to add Hawaii service? Or code share?

Or effectively sell tickets outside the United States?

2Q2018 % Originating traffic in MEX
AA 38.1%
B6 47.4%
UA 39.2%
WN 24.9%

This is why they gave slots back. I have to wonder how many of those originating tickets were even sold in Pesos. Probably close to zero


I think the point was that SY has had their ETOPS program for a long time but you chose a random route extension to take a dig at WN. That’s all.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
32andBelow
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:13 pm

janders wrote:
many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


:old:

Airline rule # 1:
Full plane doesn't mean its a profitable flight



DL probably dropped route for the same reasons AA and UA did in the past -- lack of $$$

I can’t think of too many routes that are constantly full that don’t make money.
 
SUNCTRY738
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:15 pm

flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...


That is correct. A good friend and former SY pilot did some Hawaii charter trips for SY.
 
SUNCTRY738
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:16 pm

Delete, duplicate post
 
axiom
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:20 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
KarlB737 wrote:

Whoa !! that's quite a slashing. Is no one using Delta's service.


Early death throes of another small airport. AZO travelers can drive an hour to GRR which has more than 10x the passenger count.

Or SBN.
The Kazoo area is a primary victim of overseas outforcing. Once home to several Fortune 500 hq’s (Whirlpool, Kellogg, Case, etc.) and numerous large factories, it was a wealthy area. All of that is gone now.


Are you both immune to facts? The runway is being closed for repairs. A bit much with the doom and gloom.
 
SUNCTRY738
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:21 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable. Also, SEA-MCO continues to struggle to maintain daily service.


I thought we were past these ridiculous posts about DL failing in SEA. Pretty much every negative prediction made on here since DL started the SEA build up has been wrong.
 
ridgid727
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:36 pm

flyfresno wrote:
enilria wrote:
Took WN like 3 years to add Hawaii and SY does it in a few months? LOL
**SY HNL-PDX MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0]


SY has been doing all kinds of odd overseas charters for years. I would think that they developed their ETOPS program a long time ago...



SY is kinda slow to add cities too. WN started in 71 has 99 destinations served full time and a fleet of 750 aircraft, has never had a change of ownership has bought 2 competitors, and never filed a bankrupcty, and has shown a profit 45 years in a row. On the other hand SY started in 82 has 47 part time destinations and a fleet of 29 and has had a bankruptcy and four owners in that time frame, and only turned a profit in 7 of its existing years. I guess the enilria's LOL should really go to SY.
 
CFWAD
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 pm

YEG-SEA has lost a lot of it's connection potential (Hawaii, SoCal, LAS, PHX) over the years as WS and AC have grown their YVR/YYC/YEG-Transborder routes. In fact, coupled with the economy and poor CAD$, all U.S. carriers serving YEG have slowly been reducing service and/or capacity. It's as cyclical as oil prices.

For many years YEG-Hawaii on AS was a single SEA stop and, if you took the originating flight out of YEG, you could be on the island around noon. Now, at least in winter, you can go non-stop from YEG or have multiple departure times via YVR on WS or AC.

I am surprised of the seemingly lack of demand for connecting passengers: YEG-SEA-PDX/BOZ/YAK/FAT/BOI/SMF/SNA/RNO, etc. and I think this is the first time in a long time (if ever) AS/QX has dropped to only 2x daily.
CaVOK
A300.310.319.320.321.332.333.343.B722.732.733.734.735.736.73G.738.739.742.74M.752.762.763.772.773.779.CR2.CR7.DC9.DC10.DH1.DH3.DH4.E135.E175. E195.MD83
 
Rdh3e
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:17 pm

32andBelow wrote:
janders wrote:
many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


:old:

Airline rule # 1:
Full plane doesn't mean its a profitable flight



DL probably dropped route for the same reasons AA and UA did in the past -- lack of $$$

I can’t think of too many routes that are constantly full that don’t make money.

That's funny, I can think of quite a few. Especially considering the definition of "constantly full" on this board is somewhere in the low 80s.
 
many321
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:26 pm

janders wrote:
many321 wrote:
Can anyone venture on why DL cut LAX-SAL since every time I've taken that flight, it's always been full. I highly doubt it's JV venture with AM.


:old:

Airline rule # 1:
Full plane doesn't mean its a profitable flight



DL probably dropped route for the same reasons AA and UA did in the past -- lack of $$$


I agree. Though, it should had happened in early 2015 or 2016 tops, not now. The only reason I think this occurred is the entry of Y4 cheap fares, and DL stopping their second free checked bagged last year which attracted most people from AV. Now with that gone, some thought, its the same as AV, though with cheaper food options why bother. Let's go with AV instead.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:03 pm

babastud wrote:
CA PEK-SFO APR 1.0>1.4[1.0]

I think this is the first time CA has done more then one daily to SFO?



They flew a few extra weekly SFO-PEK summer before last...
 
Cubsrule
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:13 pm

Bingo1 wrote:
Side note. What did NW do different that DL is not doing in regards to Canadian and Western Canadian traffic? They've ceded the bulk of the transborder traffic to UA and given up on many routes and cities since the merger. I only know of one city in Western Canada (YXE) that has similar daily seat counts today compared to pre-merger.


It’s a “have” more so than a “do.” On NW, western Canada basically had to be served by an Airbus to MSP. DL has three or four hubs and gobs of aircraft from which to choose, so can better match capacity to demand. It’s the same reason NW flew 744s on stuff like DTW-NGO.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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FA9295
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:26 pm

kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?

Probably not.

Can't see why WS would do any better on the route then DL, even with their partnership/codeshare agreements.
 
steex
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:57 pm

FA9295 wrote:
kavok wrote:
Thanks as always Enilria. Does DL dropping SEA-YEG clear the way for an eventual WS add?

Probably not.

Can't see why WS would do any better on the route then DL, even with their partnership/codeshare agreements.


I don't know that WS will add it, but if they did, I assume the swap could be due to the fact that DL does not operate any 50-seat aircraft out of SEA and is heavily E75 focused at the hub, while WS has Q400s buzzing in and out of YEG that could be used to SEA. They could feel the DL E75 can be better used elsewhere if WS has Q400 availability (again, if it even happens).
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:19 pm

ridgid727 wrote:

SY is kinda slow to add cities too. WN started in 71 has 99 destinations served full time and a fleet of 750 aircraft, has never had a change of ownership has bought 2 competitors, and never filed a bankrupcty, and has shown a profit 45 years in a row. On the other hand SY started in 82 has 47 part time destinations and a fleet of 29 and has had a bankruptcy and four owners in that time frame, and only turned a profit in 7 of its existing years. I guess the enilria's LOL should really go to SY.


They bought 3 airlines, are you forgetting Muse Air? They shut that one down and now operate all Muse's old routes basically...but did not integrate Muse into the WN Borg. And don't forget ATA which they didn't actually buy, but asset stripped IIRC.
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
GSP psgr
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Re: OAG Changes 12/30/2018:DL Drops LAX-SAL and SEA-YEG;SY Adds PDX-HNL;UA EWR-POS to Daily,HDN-IAH Dropped for Summer

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:40 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
Delta dropping SEA-YEG is interesting, any idea if it's just going seasonal? They seem to struggle in SEA and I can't help but wonder if their hub there is sustainable. Also, SEA-MCO continues to struggle to maintain daily service.


I've always thought it slightly strange that Delta doesn't do SLC-YEG. Perhaps with the new WestJet partnership and the new SLC terminal complex, we will see it soon.

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