davidjohnson6
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:12 pm

I am surprised that while August domestic traffic at ARN was down about 10 %, September is down just 3 %
Assuming the numbers are correct I can only guess that tax and flygskam are affecting primarily leisure travel, but those flying for work have not been affected in the same way

I am also wondering whether flygskam will have same effect in the middle of winter with snow on the ground, as in July.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:29 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I'm a little dubious HEL will overtake ARN by 2022. The population in the Stockholm metropolitan area is significantly greater than Helsinki and the country is not exactly poor.


Well despite Stockholm being the largest city in the Nordic region, ARN is still only the third largest airport in passengers numbers. Why? Connections aren't a huge thing there and besides that they are a pain in the arse. Despite being in Schengen and the EU, domestic flights operate from separate terminals and there are no airside walkways to make the transfers seamless. Even OSL, being outside the EU, has installed an airside customs border so you can transfer from international to domestic flights without having to go through security again, or rechecking your luggage. At CPH domestic and intra-Schengen flights operate from the same area.

At ARN I've always said that Terminal 4 should just be made part of Terminal 5 with an airside walkway constructed in Sky City. Then domestic and intra-Schengen flights can operate from the same area and transfers are made easier. There is precedent for this in Sweden: at GOT all domestic and intra-Schengen flights operate from the same area within the terminal.

HEL is huge on connections, which I imagine is the main driver in pushing its passenger numbers upwards. OSL has a large number of connections from international to domestic flights and vice versa and CPH serves both a huge metropolitan area (Sjælland + Skåne) and is big connecting hub.

ARN has an airside bus between terminals.
 
JCCLAG
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:38 pm

Isnt flygskam primarily a leisure thing? People want to post on Facebook and say they took the train or selected a vacation in Sweden instead? Doesn’t give you that many likes on Facebook if you do the same for some work related thing. I guess flygskam might have a longer term effect on business travel as well. The companies wants to send the same signals and change their travel policies. Question is if these new travel policies is just to win some points on social media or if they will be implemented. Seen many cases of people saying one thing and doing something else, stordalen is my favourite
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3038
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:13 pm

JCCLAG wrote:
Isnt flygskam primarily a leisure thing? People want to post on Facebook and say they took the train or selected a vacation in Sweden instead? Doesn’t give you that many likes on Facebook if you do the same for some work related thing. I guess flygskam might have a longer term effect on business travel as well. The companies wants to send the same signals and change their travel policies. Question is if these new travel policies is just to win some points on social media or if they will be implemented. Seen many cases of people saying one thing and doing something else, stordalen is my favourite


Leisure travel is massive in Scandinavia. Generally poor weather and too much money ensures that it isn't uncommon for Scandinavians to go on holiday twice or more a year. It will make up a far greater percentage than in the rest of Europe.
 
kanye
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:37 pm

Someone83 wrote:
ARN September

Domestic 450 046 (-3%)
International 1 881 233 (-2%)
Total 2 331 279 (-2%)

ARN keeps falling. However, if SAS claims their domestic Swedish traffic is up, others must be losing?



Probably Norwegian. They stopped flying to Skellefteå and reduced Kiruna.
I also think Norwegian increased their prices in Scandinavia to compensate for all other money burning operations they are doing around the world. That’s probably why SAS selling more tickets to a higher price domestically.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:23 pm

Someone83 wrote:
ARN September

Domestic 450 046 (-3%)
International 1 881 233 (-2%)
Total 2 331 279 (-2%)

ARN keeps falling. However, if SAS claims their domestic Swedish traffic is up, others must be losing?


Norwegian has cut routes, and the financial state of Norwegian might have led people to prefer SAS.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:27 pm

Blerg wrote:
Anyone know why CPH had such a minimal growth this year?


Wild guess: SAS pilot strike?
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 pm

JCCLAG wrote:
Isnt flygskam primarily a leisure thing? People want to post on Facebook and say they took the train or selected a vacation in Sweden instead? Doesn’t give you that many likes on Facebook if you do the same for some work related thing. I guess flygskam might have a longer term effect on business travel as well. The companies wants to send the same signals and change their travel policies. Question is if these new travel policies is just to win some points on social media or if they will be implemented. Seen many cases of people saying one thing and doing something else, stordalen is my favourite


How is it with flygskam (=fly shame) in Denmark, Norway, Iceland? It hasn't really hit Finland, not yet at least, other climate/enviromental issues like meat comsumption and plastic waste get much more attention. Finland is practically an island, it's complicated to get anywhere further abroad without flying, not much choices for the business travellers especially. For many a holiday in warmer climates, 1-2 times a year, is seen as a fundamental right. I can fully understand this, you need to break the winter darkness somehow.

VSMUT wrote:
Leisure travel is massive in Scandinavia. Generally poor weather and too much money ensures that it isn't uncommon for Scandinavians to go on holiday twice or more a year. It will make up a far greater percentage than in the rest of Europe.


Isn't it much the same in all of the Northern Europe? People in the Nordics, UK, Netherlands, Germany etc still need their sun therapy, for most flying is the only practical option. My friends in France take a train to the beach.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6976
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
Anyone know why CPH had such a minimal growth this year?

CPH is the local airport for much of Sweden. Sweden's 3rd largest city is much closer to CPH than Stockholm is to ARN.

A substantial part of the more densely part of Sweden has CPH as the natural hub.

That way Swedish "flyskam" hits CPH as well. Then there was the strikes.

CPH is still the major Danish hub, but for western Denmark it is losing ground to especially AMS. SAS strikes were very good for KLM and AMS.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:34 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Anyone know why CPH had such a minimal growth this year?

CPH is the local airport for much of Sweden. Sweden's 3rd largest city is much closer to CPH than Stockholm is to ARN.

A substantial part of the more densely part of Sweden has CPH as the natural hub.

That way Swedish "flyskam" hits CPH as well. Then there was the strikes.

CPH is still the major Danish hub, but for western Denmark it is losing ground to especially AMS. SAS strikes were very good for KLM and AMS.


Thank you, I didn't know flyskam was that big of a deal.

Anyone know how Malmo is performing this year?
 
Oykie
Posts: 1864
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:52 am

Blerg wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Anyone know why CPH had such a minimal growth this year?

CPH is the local airport for much of Sweden. Sweden's 3rd largest city is much closer to CPH than Stockholm is to ARN.

A substantial part of the more densely part of Sweden has CPH as the natural hub.

That way Swedish "flyskam" hits CPH as well. Then there was the strikes.

CPH is still the major Danish hub, but for western Denmark it is losing ground to especially AMS. SAS strikes were very good for KLM and AMS.


Thank you, I didn't know flyskam was that big of a deal.

Anyone know how Malmo is performing this year?


I still believe that a slowdown in the Swedish economy is more important to the decline of flying, than actual flygskam. Might be proven wrong eventually if the economy comes back and the flying does not increase again.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:01 am

Oykie wrote:
Blerg wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
CPH is the local airport for much of Sweden. Sweden's 3rd largest city is much closer to CPH than Stockholm is to ARN.

A substantial part of the more densely part of Sweden has CPH as the natural hub.

That way Swedish "flyskam" hits CPH as well. Then there was the strikes.

CPH is still the major Danish hub, but for western Denmark it is losing ground to especially AMS. SAS strikes were very good for KLM and AMS.


Thank you, I didn't know flyskam was that big of a deal.

Anyone know how Malmo is performing this year?


I still believe that a slowdown in the Swedish economy is more important to the decline of flying, than actual flygskam. Might be proven wrong eventually if the economy comes back and the flying does not increase again.


I didn't know the Swedish economy is underperforming. I guess we have to wait and see what happens this winter.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3038
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:14 am

MareBorealis wrote:
Isn't it much the same in all of the Northern Europe? People in the Nordics, UK, Netherlands, Germany etc still need their sun therapy, for most flying is the only practical option. My friends in France take a train to the beach.


No, they do really travel much less, and for the Germans and Dutch, taking the car, train and bus is often just as convenient.
I've seen a number of graphs on this subject, and the Scandinavian countries along with Finland tend to top them out. France is the only other European country that even appeared in the top 10, and then it was clearly domestic travels.
 
JCCLAG
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:30 am

Blerg wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Thank you, I didn't know flyskam was that big of a deal.

Anyone know how Malmo is performing this year?


I still believe that a slowdown in the Swedish economy is more important to the decline of flying, than actual flygskam. Might be proven wrong eventually if the economy comes back and the flying does not increase again.


I didn't know the Swedish economy is underperforming. I guess we have to wait and see what happens this winter.


With the risk that this turns in to an economic forum I would say the Swedish economy is considered by some to be at risk of going in to a slump. GDP growth was 0,1 in Q2 and the number that is interesting -GDP/Capita- Sweden with its increasing population is expected to have the third lowest number in the EU in 2019. And a weak currency doesn’t help the will to travel abroad.

Agree with previous comments that for now it is just guesses if it is flygskam or the economy that makes people less willing to fly. However comparing Sweden and Denmark I would say flygskam gets far more attention in Sweden. I would say occasionally it is out of proportions.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:20 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I am surprised that while August domestic traffic at ARN was down about 10 %, September is down just 3 %
Assuming the numbers are correct I can only guess that tax and flygskam are affecting primarily leisure travel, but those flying for work have not been affected in the same way

I am also wondering whether flygskam will have same effect in the middle of winter with snow on the ground, as in July.


While it probably only explains part of the difference between August and September: I assume the traffic pattern is somewhat similar in Sweden and Norway. And in Norway, there is a significant slump in domestic traffic on Saturdays. Basically no business traffic, and those going away for the weekend, usually travels on Fridays and Sundays. And in August 2019, there was one of those months containing 5 Saturdays, which makes a small "dent" in the domestic traffic, usually a few percentages.

International traffic, is a little more stable during the week
 
Someone83
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:58 am

Widerøe and BRA is teaming up on a new TRF-BMA routes. Starting March 30 with up to 3x daily (16x weekly), with both BRA with ATR-72-600 and Widerøe with Q400 operating the route

In Norwegian:
https://www.wideroe.no/om-selskapet/med ... lm-2929399
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:54 am

Someone83 wrote:
Widerøe and BRA is teaming up on a new TRF-BMA routes. Starting March 30 with up to 3x daily (16x weekly), with both BRA with ATR-72-600 and Widerøe with Q400 operating the route

In Norwegian:
https://www.wideroe.no/om-selskapet/med ... lm-2929399


It's one of five international routes BRA has announced. The other are:

BMA – RIX
BMA – TLL
GOT – TXL
MMX – TXL

That means, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be five airlines competing on the Tallinn-Stockholm route.
 
minilinde
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:59 am

Bostrom wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Widerøe and BRA is teaming up on a new TRF-BMA routes. Starting March 30 with up to 3x daily (16x weekly), with both BRA with ATR-72-600 and Widerøe with Q400 operating the route

In Norwegian:
https://www.wideroe.no/om-selskapet/med ... lm-2929399


It's one of five international routes BRA has announced. The other are:

BMA – RIX
BMA – TLL
GOT – TXL
MMX – TXL

That means, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be five airlines competing on the Tallinn-Stockholm route.


Source?
EDIT: found it https://via.tt.se/pressmeddelande/bra-s ... Id=3262653
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:21 am

MMX-TXL? That's going to be a very short flight. I wonder how successful it will be with flights from CPH.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Blerg wrote:
MMX-TXL? That's going to be a very short flight. I wonder how successful it will be with flights from CPH.


That was my thoughts as well. But time will tell I guess.
 
mchei
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 pm

VSMUT wrote:
MareBorealis wrote:
Isn't it much the same in all of the Northern Europe? People in the Nordics, UK, Netherlands, Germany etc still need their sun therapy, for most flying is the only practical option. My friends in France take a train to the beach.


No, they do really travel much less, and for the Germans and Dutch, taking the car, train and bus is often just as convenient.
I've seen a number of graphs on this subject, and the Scandinavian countries along with Finland tend to top them out. France is the only other European country that even appeared in the top 10, and then it was clearly domestic travels.


I live in the north of Germany and have been to Finland a couple of times. While it can be significant colder up in Finland I think the biggest issue is about light. When there’s only a couple of hours of light during the day I fully understand that people need to take a break from that. And from Tampere for example they can easily take Ryanair. I also know a couple of people that travel far using the excellent Asian routes Finnair offers.
Germany is easy though. Palma de Mallorca, Crete, Antalya, Djerba, Canary Islands - it’s important they find themselves among people that are similar ;)
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
EFHK
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:37 pm

armchairceonr1 wrote:
AY's development in Asia is very worrying. Maybe they don't have enough feeding capacity or they have added too much capacity to Asia. Or both together.


Any specific reason why you find it very worrying? I agree that the decrease in load factor is not a good sign, but traffic still increased +3,8% (much less than the capacity +10,8% though). However, I'm willing to bet that the situation in HKG has a considerably negative effect on this - much of the added capacity was allocated to HKG. (Going double daily vs last year.)

Bostrom wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Widerøe and BRA is teaming up on a new TRF-BMA routes. Starting March 30 with up to 3x daily (16x weekly), with both BRA with ATR-72-600 and Widerøe with Q400 operating the route

In Norwegian:
https://www.wideroe.no/om-selskapet/med ... lm-2929399


It's one of five international routes BRA has announced. The other are:

BMA – RIX
BMA – TLL
GOT – TXL
MMX – TXL

That means, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be five airlines competing on the Tallinn-Stockholm route.


This is definitely very interesting! I hope these routes will be successful! I love the experience of going through BMA compared to ARN from Stockholm City.

However, usually when you see a financially troubled airline going for a growth spree....it has rarely been a good sign. I hope that situation at BRA is not that bad though.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:06 pm

EFHK wrote:

This is definitely very interesting! I hope these routes will be successful! I love the experience of going through BMA compared to ARN from Stockholm City.

However, usually when you see a financially troubled airline going for a growth spree....it has rarely been a good sign. I hope that situation at BRA is not that bad though.


However, a lot of this new flights (not all though) seems to be centered around off-peak periods during mid-day. So they probably have some spare capacity that is better used here, that flying "empty" domestic runs
 
EFHK
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Someone83 wrote:
EFHK wrote:

This is definitely very interesting! I hope these routes will be successful! I love the experience of going through BMA compared to ARN from Stockholm City.

However, usually when you see a financially troubled airline going for a growth spree....it has rarely been a good sign. I hope that situation at BRA is not that bad though.


However, a lot of this new flights (not all though) seems to be centered around off-peak periods during mid-day. So they probably have some spare capacity that is better used here, that flying "empty" domestic runs


Ah, well that's clever! I like it how BRA flies in the same sense UME for AY, as well as WF from BGO, TOS & TRD to HEL. It's a win-win, something for the regionals to do during the mid-day crunch, while giving AY additional Asian connections without the need to fly the return sectors.
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:26 am

mchei wrote:
I live in the north of Germany and have been to Finland a couple of times. While it can be significant colder up in Finland I think the biggest issue is about light. When there’s only a couple of hours of light during the day I fully understand that people need to take a break from that. And from Tampere for example they can easily take Ryanair. I also know a couple of people that travel far using the excellent Asian routes Finnair offers.
Germany is easy though. Palma de Mallorca, Crete, Antalya, Djerba, Canary Islands - it’s important they find themselves among people that are similar ;)


Yes I recognice that, you can handle the cold but the lack of natural light is the problem in winter. The light therapy lamp helps a bit but can't beat the real sun :sun:
I just listened a radio program on this subject, they said no big changes in the travel habbits in Finland, the most popular winter destinations still are Spain & Canaries and Thailand. I learnt Norwegians are the biggest travellers in Europe with an average 2.0 outbound trips per person per year, followed by Finns and Swedes.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:18 am

According to Wikipedia, Ryanair will be discontinuing Budapest-Tampere from 23.10.2019 but will be launching Budapest-Lappeenranta on the same day. Wonder what's the rationale behind this decision.

Wizz Air will be discontinuing Budapest-Stavanger flights at about the same time.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4390
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:44 am

OSL September 2019

Domestic: 1.100.611 +0,5%
International: 1.553.530 +3,7%
Total: 2.655.050 +2,3%
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
According to Wikipedia, Ryanair will be discontinuing Budapest-Tampere from 23.10.2019 but will be launching Budapest-Lappeenranta on the same day. Wonder what's the rationale behind this decision.


TMP has been struggling with Ryanair, zero flights this winter. Little LPP is a bit of an oddbal, it's not a Finavia airport but owned by the city. It relies on Ryanair, Laudamotion to VIE coming nest spring, zero domestic services. A large part of the passengers have been Russians, LPP is located near the border.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:22 am

MareBorealis wrote:
Blerg wrote:
According to Wikipedia, Ryanair will be discontinuing Budapest-Tampere from 23.10.2019 but will be launching Budapest-Lappeenranta on the same day. Wonder what's the rationale behind this decision.


TMP has been struggling with Ryanair, zero flights this winter. Little LPP is a bit of an oddbal, it's not a Finavia airport but owned by the city. It relies on Ryanair, Laudamotion to VIE coming nest spring, zero domestic services. A large part of the passengers have been Russians, LPP is located near the border.


I looked online and Tampere is really underserved, not many airlines fly there. I see that Turku is some 160 km away and they have received a lot of attention from airlines, especially Wizz Air. Could they be taking away some passengers from them?
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:09 am

Blerg wrote:
I looked online and Tampere is really underserved, not many airlines fly there. I see that Turku is some 160 km away and they have received a lot of attention from airlines, especially Wizz Air. Could they be taking away some passengers from them?


Probably some effect but it's especially HEL (170km) that vacuums the passengers from the Tampere region (300K inhabitants). TMP had big hopes for Ryanair, a low cost terminal was refurbished for them but the business has dried out now. The passengers numbers in TMP have come down from the record 700K to 200K in ten years.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:25 am

MareBorealis wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I looked online and Tampere is really underserved, not many airlines fly there. I see that Turku is some 160 km away and they have received a lot of attention from airlines, especially Wizz Air. Could they be taking away some passengers from them?


Probably some effect but it's especially HEL (170km) that vacuums the passengers from the Tampere region (300K inhabitants). TMP had big hopes for Ryanair, a low cost terminal was refurbished for them but the business has dried out now. The passengers numbers in TMP have come down from the record 700K to 200K in ten years.


So what's the future of this airport? Can it be sustainable in the long run?
 
YIMBY
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:26 am

MareBorealis wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I looked online and Tampere is really underserved, not many airlines fly there. I see that Turku is some 160 km away and they have received a lot of attention from airlines, especially Wizz Air. Could they be taking away some passengers from them?


Probably some effect but it's especially HEL (170km) that vacuums the passengers from the Tampere region (300K inhabitants). TMP had big hopes for Ryanair, a low cost terminal was refurbished for them but the business has dried out now. The passengers numbers in TMP have come down from the record 700K to 200K in ten years.


The number of low cost airlines and routes in Finland is generally very small, unless you count Norwegian as one. I compare it with AY and SK in terms of price and service (well, networks are different, particularly because Norwegian refuses to sell two stop flights, and AY and SK excel in the handling of problems, but all other is quite equal).
 
MareBorealis
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:30 am

Blerg wrote:
So what's the future of this airport? Can it be sustainable in the long run?


Tampere region is big enough to support feeding traffic to HEL and ARN, there's also AirBaltic to RIX and odd charters. But they would need LCCs to grow and thats hard. A pilot traning company Patria operates in TMP (+Cordoba, Spain), they just made a deal with Turkish Airlines.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:50 am

Finnair and Fiji Airways to commence codeshare partnership on October 27, 2019, allowing passengers to complete an around-the-world trip with Finnair flight numbers. This is also the 5th codeshare agreement AY has signed this year (Jetstar Airways, China Southern, Juneyao, LATAM and now Fiji Airways).

Finnair
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:11 am

As mentioned in other thread, DY increases frequencies in several Europe–U.S routes. However, these are the only additions from the Nordics:

Fort Lauderdale-Oslo Three weekly flights (up from twice weekly)
Oakland-Oslo Three weekly flights (up from twice weekly)

So, no additions to ARN or CPH. It seems that these additions are possible to implement partially due to the reductions at CPH and ARN. It's also possible that now seasonal Trans-Atlantic routes from CPH and ARN won't even return in S20.

amp.mynewsdesk.com
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Blerg
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:35 am

Does DY offer connections via OSL? Maybe they will focus on that like SK is in CPH?
 
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QuawerAir
Posts: 890
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:06 am

QuawerAir wrote:
As mentioned in other thread, DY increases frequencies in several Europe–U.S routes. However, these are the only additions from the Nordics:

Fort Lauderdale-Oslo Three weekly flights (up from twice weekly)
Oakland-Oslo Three weekly flights (up from twice weekly)

So, no additions to ARN or CPH. It seems that these additions are possible to implement partially due to the reductions at CPH and ARN. It's also possible that now seasonal Trans-Atlantic routes from CPH and ARN won't even return in S20.

amp.mynewsdesk.com

More flights to the USA on sale from Oslo: LAX, OAK, JFK, MCO and FLL (previously only JFK, LAX and FLL were on sale). None from ARN, only MCO from CPH.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:21 am

Blerg wrote:
Does DY offer connections via OSL? Maybe they will focus on that like SK is in CPH?


Yes, they «always» have done this

And also connections via other airports. I have myself flown Norwegian with connections via CPH and BGO also
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:29 am

SAS has won the contract with the Norwegian Armed Forces. Currently Norwegian has this contract

In addition to more passengers, it will mean SAS will replace Norwegian on OSL-BDU. Currently it is flown up to 3x daily on weekdays
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:35 am

Someone83 wrote:
SAS has won the contract with the Norwegian Armed Forces. Currently Norwegian has this contract

In addition to more passengers, it will mean SAS will replace Norwegian on OSL-BDU. Currently it is flown up to 3x daily on weekdays


What aircraft will SK use? A regional jet or something larger? I mean is there really that much demand to fill a B738?
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:39 am

Blerg wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
SAS has won the contract with the Norwegian Armed Forces. Currently Norwegian has this contract

In addition to more passengers, it will mean SAS will replace Norwegian on OSL-BDU. Currently it is flown up to 3x daily on weekdays


What aircraft will SK use? A regional jet or something larger? I mean is there really that much demand to fill a B738?


Norwegian uses 737-800 on their 3x daily today

There is probably a certain capacity requirement in the contract
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:34 am

CPH September: 2.804.077 (+0,4%)

Other Danish airports:
BLL: 369.954 +6,8%
AAR: 50.219 -5,0%
AAL: 146.488 -11,3%
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:52 pm

Norwegian will be closing their three routes from TRF: ALC, AGP and LPA
 
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QuawerAir
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:09 am

The following Norwegian's routes will not (apparently) return in S20:

Following routes not listed on/after 29MAR20:
Copenhagen – Fort Lauderdale
Copenhagen – Los Angeles
Copenhagen – New York JFK

Stockholm Arlanda – Fort Lauderdale
Stockholm Arlanda – Los Angeles
Stockholm Arlanda – New York JFK (per route map)
Stockholm Arlanda – Oakland

Routesonline


All long-haul routes from OSL on sale.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:36 am

From the 2020 summer season, airBaltic will be returning to Bergen (3 weekly) and Trondheim (3 weekly).

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... rk-in-s20/
 
Someone83
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:45 am

QuawerAir wrote:
All long-haul routes from OSL on sale.


With both FLL and OAK increasing from 2x til 3x weekly
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:40 am

Good news for TMP! Ryanair will continue BUD in S20!

(Link in Finnish):

http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/ryanai ... a_budapest
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:16 am

All long-haul routes from OSL on sale.


So does this mean Norwegian is trying to centralise it's Scandinavian long-haul at OSL? It makes sense from an operations point of view and OSL - after the renovations - is a great passenger experience. Once the new non-Schengen pier is completed hopefully they will establish US pre-clearance making it even more attractive.
Base: BRU
 
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QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:00 am

SKAirbus wrote:
All long-haul routes from OSL on sale.


So does this mean Norwegian is trying to centralise it's Scandinavian long-haul at OSL? It makes sense from an operations point of view and OSL - after the renovations - is a great passenger experience. Once the new non-Schengen pier is completed hopefully they will establish US pre-clearance making it even more attractive.

Norwegian's Andres Hjørnholm assured to Check-in.dk that U.S routes from CPH will resume in S20 but let's see... No mention of ARN.

Centralising all Scandinavian long-haul routes to OSL would actually make sense at the moment since Danish, Swedish and Finnish passengers can easily transfer through OSL. From my point of view, there's really no need to have long-haul flights to same cities from three airports so close to each other (CPH, OSL and ARN) given Norwegian's current financial situation. It may be wise to move capacity to routes with better yields and where demand is higher (although I have no idea whether yields actually are higher or lower at LGW, CDG etc. than at CPH or ARN).
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
JCCLAG
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 pm

Makes sense to centralise to OSL but isn’t the whole idea of a LCC to spot the unserved routes or uncovered market areas. It is build in point to point to to take those market shares and not to build up a hub activity?

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