JCCLAG
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:24 am

YIMBY wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Has Sweden made huge investments in railway network? I thought that area had been neglected for a long time. isn't that what we read in the papers every year?. I know some politicians wants to invest more but that have not yet been materialised. I am thinking of the expensive and symbolic fast train tracks, but also more more “boring” investments in pure maintained such as switches and tracks.
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:17 am

MartijnNL wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Sichuan Airlines flight 3U8271 has departed for HEL with a seven-minute delay.

Estimated arrival time is 05.28 local, thirty minutes ahead of schedule, four hours and twenty minutes from now.


The inaugural was pretty much full, around 280 pax out of 290 seats. 50 deboarded at HEL, the rest continued to CPH.
 
EFHK
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:05 pm

HELFAN wrote:
Sorry if this has been discussed earlier, but does anyone know the reason why there is no competition on the HEL-BRU route. Finnair has had monopoly on the route for years and prices are very high compared to other similar routes. Now that Finland is chairing EU, European Commission issued an official instruction to the officials that they should avoid Finnair whenever possible on that route because the prices are so high. There is also a substantial Finnish community living in Brussels area due to EU. I'm wondering why there aren't any other airlines interested. Brussels Airlines and Blue 1 did fly the route but long time ago.


Could the reason be that other airlines have tried and flown the route before, but found it unprofitable/unsustainable?

HEL-BRU is a route with only so much O/D demand - it's not like HEL-LON, HEL-PAR or HEL-FCO where lower prices can stimulate significantly more demand.

HEL-BRU probably is a good performer for Finnair now. The only thing a competitor would be likely to achieve is causing a price war, that would make the route a poor performer for both. And it's not like the more price-sensitive consumers couldn't already choose cheaper one-stop options already now.
 
cityairline
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:29 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:37 pm

JCCLAG wrote:
15% for Gothenburg, that is very much.

Yes it is, indeed. And the reason to this is that Gothenburg is the only major city where high speed rail can really compete from Stockholm, with many rides at only 3 hours! Malmö still takes 4,5 hours by train, thus less people who are willing to give up flying for trains. Umeå and Luleå still takes even longer by train. And since Stockholm is 90% of domestic travel from GOT, the result is not surprising...

That’s why we are lucky at GOT to have international traffic that is still growing (to compensate for the loss of domestic), which unfortunately can’t be said about ARN, MMX...
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:39 pm

EFHK wrote:
Could the reason be that other airlines have tried and flown the route before, but found it unprofitable/unsustainable?

HEL-BRU is a route with only so much O/D demand - it's not like HEL-LON, HEL-PAR or HEL-FCO where lower prices can stimulate significantly more demand.

HEL-BRU probably is a good performer for Finnair now. The only thing a competitor would be likely to achieve is causing a price war, that would make the route a poor performer for both. And it's not like the more price-sensitive consumers couldn't already choose cheaper one-stop options already now.


It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.
Base: BRU
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:14 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
EFHK wrote:
Could the reason be that other airlines have tried and flown the route before, but found it unprofitable/unsustainable?

HEL-BRU is a route with only so much O/D demand - it's not like HEL-LON, HEL-PAR or HEL-FCO where lower prices can stimulate significantly more demand.

HEL-BRU probably is a good performer for Finnair now. The only thing a competitor would be likely to achieve is causing a price war, that would make the route a poor performer for both. And it's not like the more price-sensitive consumers couldn't already choose cheaper one-stop options already now.


It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.


Isn't AY codesharing with SN? As they did when SN was still operating the route. I'm sure there would be demand for additional one or two daily flights.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:33 pm

ilari wrote:
SKAirbus wrote:
EFHK wrote:
Could the reason be that other airlines have tried and flown the route before, but found it unprofitable/unsustainable?

HEL-BRU is a route with only so much O/D demand - it's not like HEL-LON, HEL-PAR or HEL-FCO where lower prices can stimulate significantly more demand.

HEL-BRU probably is a good performer for Finnair now. The only thing a competitor would be likely to achieve is causing a price war, that would make the route a poor performer for both. And it's not like the more price-sensitive consumers couldn't already choose cheaper one-stop options already now.


It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.


Isn't AY codesharing with SN? As they did when SN was still operating the route. I'm sure there would be demand for additional one or two daily flights.

They don't, at least not anymore. Some competition is needed though.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:40 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
ilari wrote:
SKAirbus wrote:

It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.


Isn't AY codesharing with SN? As they did when SN was still operating the route. I'm sure there would be demand for additional one or two daily flights.

They don't, at least not anymore. Some competition is needed though.


Some 12 years ago I used to fly to BRU a few times a year, with all: AY, SN and KF. They were all almost always at least 75% full.
 
EFHK
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:41 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
ilari wrote:
SKAirbus wrote:

It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.


Isn't AY codesharing with SN? As they did when SN was still operating the route. I'm sure there would be demand for additional one or two daily flights.

They don't, at least not anymore. Some competition is needed though.


From the consumer's point of view, some competition is definitely needed, yes. There's no doubt about that.

But is it also needed from the airline's point of view? That's what determines if a certain route will be operated.

ilari wrote:

Some 12 years ago I used to fly to BRU a few times a year, with all: AY, SN and KF. They were all almost always at least 75% full.


And 75% full means that the flights were profitable? :)

12 years ago AY had three flights to BRU per weekday, while SN flew two. The companies code-shared. Currently, AY flies four flights per weekday.

SN run a billboard campaign in Helsinki area, promoting rather cheap onward connections to places like Nice. That was a pretty radical effort for a company flying a couple of Avros per day to HEL.

KF European flying, if I recall correctly, was a financial disaster and didn't last long.

Currently LH group is probably perfectly happy with funneling traffic to/from BRU through their German hubs, unless SN suddenly needs more places to expand. Maybe they could give a shot for Eurowings on the route at some point.

SK is probably perfectly happy funneling traffic through their Scandinavian hubs.

Norwegian? Even if they were to open the route, they would have to fly at least daily, if not even twice to be a relevant option for the business/government traffic on the route (that currently pays the highest premiums). Only way they could fill those flights would be by offering deep discounts, to which AY would surely retaliate. Lose - lose for both.

The question was, why is there no competition flying (directly) between the cities, and I'm just doing my best to explain. :)
 
HELFAN
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:56 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:47 am

Yes, LH is offering very good prices via FRA and MUC and KL is nowadays a lucrative option too but you lose quite a bit of time especially when travelling on a short trip. IIRC FR tried the CRL - TMP route at some point and now that FR has presence at BRU, maybe they could try it from there again. Also Eurowings could be an option. After all, there seems to be quite a lot of demand. AY is even using A330 on the route
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:26 am

HELFAN wrote:
Yes, LH is offering very good prices via FRA and MUC and KL is nowadays a lucrative option too but you lose quite a bit of time especially when travelling on a short trip. IIRC FR tried the CRL - TMP route at some point and now that FR has presence at BRU, maybe they could try it from there again. Also Eurowings could be an option. After all, there seems to be quite a lot of demand. AY is even using A330 on the route


I think it was CRL-TKU. Now that FR is leaving TMP for good I don't think they risk trying new routes.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1864
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:50 pm

I believe this might explain why Sweden has a decline in the passengers domestically. It seems like their whole economy is worsening in Sweden. The decline may not be only flygskam. The aviation sector is a good indicator of the underlying financial market in a region.

From FT:

The seasonally adjusted rate rose in August to 7.4 per cent, compared with the earlier figure of 7.1 per cent, Statistics Sweden said on Tuesday. Economists had forecast 6.8 per cent, according to a Reuters poll.


https://www.ft.com/content/997578bc-d91 ... 216ebe1f17
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:08 am

Per onemileatatime.com, Virgin Atlantic has unveiled a massive growth plan, under which the British carrier will become a large global airline. Among several other European destinations, Virgin Atlantic plans to arrive at CPH, HEL, GOT, ARN and OSL with flights from London Heathrow.

Image
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:10 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Per onemileatatime.com, Virgin Atlantic has unveiled a massive growth plan, under which the British carrier will become a large global airline. Among several other European destinations, Virgin Atlantic plans to arrive at CPH, HEL, GOT, ARN and OSL with flights from London Heathrow.


Well, first the 3rd runway at LHR has to be built
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:14 am

Someone83 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Per onemileatatime.com, Virgin Atlantic has unveiled a massive growth plan, under which the British carrier will become a large global airline. Among several other European destinations, Virgin Atlantic plans to arrive at CPH, HEL, GOT, ARN and OSL with flights from London Heathrow.


Well, first the 3rd runway at LHR has to be built

Yes. I understood that this plan will be implemented after the 3rd runway at LHR is finished.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
minilinde
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:51 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Per onemileatatime.com, Virgin Atlantic has unveiled a massive growth plan, under which the British carrier will become a large global airline. Among several other European destinations, Virgin Atlantic plans to arrive at CPH, HEL, GOT, ARN and OSL with flights from London Heathrow.


Well, first the 3rd runway at LHR has to be built

Yes. I understood that this plan will be implemented after the 3rd runway at LHR is finished.


Wow, that's ambitious! But 3rd runway at LHR is pretty far off? They would also need to acquire a rather large short haul fleet..
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:59 am

What has Virgin Atlantic to do with Nordic Aviation?

The Nordic countries are, Denmark (including Farör and Greenland) Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden.
 
User avatar
Peeter
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:05 am

mjoelnir wrote:
What has Virgin Atlantic to do with Nordic Aviation?

The Nordic countries are, Denmark (including Farör and Greenland) Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden.


It is relevant to Nordic aviation in that Virgin Atlantic is envisioning routes to OSL, CPH, HEL, GOT, and ARN, no?
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:07 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Per onemileatatime.com, Virgin Atlantic has unveiled a massive growth plan, under which the British carrier will become a large global airline. Among several other European destinations, Virgin Atlantic plans to arrive at CPH, HEL, GOT, ARN and OSL with flights from London Heathrow.

Image


VS hot air... nothing more..
They had the opportunity once to buy BD, but offered such a low low price, that BA reaped the rewards.

VS nowadays stands for ..
Viscously Screaming ( Hard Done by)
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:27 pm

Peeter wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
What has Virgin Atlantic to do with Nordic Aviation?

The Nordic countries are, Denmark (including Farör and Greenland) Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden.


It is relevant to Nordic aviation in that Virgin Atlantic is envisioning routes to OSL, CPH, HEL, GOT, and ARN, no?


But most of the expansion has exactly nothing to do with the Nordic countries. A British airline thinking of expanding all over Europe, as the map clearly demonstrates.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:43 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Peeter wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
What has Virgin Atlantic to do with Nordic Aviation?

The Nordic countries are, Denmark (including Farör and Greenland) Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden.


It is relevant to Nordic aviation in that Virgin Atlantic is envisioning routes to OSL, CPH, HEL, GOT, and ARN, no?


But most of the expansion has exactly nothing to do with the Nordic countries. A British airline thinking of expanding all over Europe, as the map clearly demonstrates.


And in that major expansion there are Nordic destinations so it's appropriate to post it in this forum, don't see why that concept is difficult to grasp.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:44 pm

The Swedish Accident Investigation Authority has held a press conference today about the preliminary findings from the crash outside Umeå in July. The preliminary findings show that the plane was a bit heavy and also tail heavy. The full report is expected in the spring 2020.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:30 am

While their -600 soon are gone, SAS has started retire their -700 as well. Gater almost 20 years with SAS, LN-RNN is sent for scrapping today

Boeing 737 -783 28315 464 LN-RNN SAS ferried 19sep19 OSL-ENS, for part-out & scrap
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:40 am

leghorn wrote:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0902/1073240-norwegian-air-bonds/

Norwegian wishes to delay repayment of bonds. Offer landing slots as security.

I'm not sure that if I were a bondholder I'd like this as they could burn through a lot of cash between now and then and landing slots at Heathrow while valuable might not be worth in future depending on the fortunes of the British economy.


It seems like the bondholders accepted the plan. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel ... -plan/amp/
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:53 am

Oykie wrote:
I believe this might explain why Sweden has a decline in the passengers domestically. It seems like their whole economy is worsening in Sweden. The decline may not be only flygskam. The aviation sector is a good indicator of the underlying financial market in a region.

From FT:

The seasonally adjusted rate rose in August to 7.4 per cent, compared with the earlier figure of 7.1 per cent, Statistics Sweden said on Tuesday. Economists had forecast 6.8 per cent, according to a Reuters poll.


https://www.ft.com/content/997578bc-d91 ... 216ebe1f17


On the other hand SJ is doing well, during Q1 2019 they saw an 8% increase in passenger numbers.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1864
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Oykie wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
Oykie wrote:
I believe this might explain why Sweden has a decline in the passengers domestically. It seems like their whole economy is worsening in Sweden. The decline may not be only flygskam. The aviation sector is a good indicator of the underlying financial market in a region.

From FT:



https://www.ft.com/content/997578bc-d91 ... 216ebe1f17


On the other hand SJ is doing well, during Q1 2019 they saw an 8% increase in passenger numbers.


Good call! Have the total amount of travelers still gone down?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:29 pm

Oykie wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

On the other hand SJ is doing well, during Q1 2019 they saw an 8% increase in passenger numbers.


Good call! Have the total amount of travelers still gone down?


I don't know. But SJ seems to think the future is bright, they recently announced a 12 billion kr investment in new trains and refurbishment of the current ones.
 
kanye
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:50 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

On the other hand SJ is doing well, during Q1 2019 they saw an 8% increase in passenger numbers.


Good call! Have the total amount of travelers still gone down?


I don't know. But SJ seems to think the future is bright, they recently announced a 12 billion kr investment in new trains and refurbishment of the current ones.



And today i read in media the German Railway company Flixtrain wants to start Stockholm - Gothenburg and Stockholm - Malmö with trains.
Fares already went down significantly since MTR Express entered the market in 2015 and now comes a third operator.
 
Begues
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:07 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
It's a bloody nightmare - I travel from Brussels to Helsinki quite a lot for work and usually have to travel with KL via AMS, LHR via FRA/MUC or SK via OSL/CPH/ARN. I can't believe that AY get away with charging so much on that route - it is often up towards €1,000 return.


Still, it is nowhere near as bad as SAS ticket prices on ARN-LHR in the 1980s. Converted to todays consumer price index it would be well over 2000 euro flying in economy class during the yuppie era. At one point the then head of SAS claimed in a radio interview that it was perfectly reasonable to charge 8000 SEK in economy, I think it was in 1986 or 87 if I don't remember wrong.
 
Begues
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:47 pm

YIMBY wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So what's the reason for this drop? Why are there so many fewer passengers? Are people switching to trains or was market artificially stimulated through too much competition?


Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Not really, in the last 20 years there have been 3 major railway projects with a combined cost of around $5 billion, (Botniabanan costing $2 billion, Citybanan in Stockholm costing $2 billion and Citytunneln in Malmö costing $1 billion). Sweden has spent more than that on immigration every year for the last several years. The Hallandsåstunneln I don't count as that was a 1990s project that should have finished in 1997.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:25 pm

Begues wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So what's the reason for this drop? Why are there so many fewer passengers? Are people switching to trains or was market artificially stimulated through too much competition?


Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Not really, in the last 20 years there have been 3 major railway projects with a combined cost of around $5 billion, (Botniabanan costing $2 billion, Citybanan in Stockholm costing $2 billion and Citytunneln in Malmö costing $1 billion). Sweden has spent more than that on immigration every year for the last several years. The Hallandsåstunneln I don't count as that was a 1990s project that should have finished in 1997.


And a lot of minor projects, and those things add up.
 
YIMBY
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:24 am

Begues wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So what's the reason for this drop? Why are there so many fewer passengers? Are people switching to trains or was market artificially stimulated through too much competition?


Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Not really, in the last 20 years there have been 3 major railway projects with a combined cost of around $5 billion, (Botniabanan costing $2 billion, Citybanan in Stockholm costing $2 billion and Citytunneln in Malmö costing $1 billion). Sweden has spent more than that on immigration every year for the last several years. The Hallandsåstunneln I don't count as that was a 1990s project that should have finished in 1997.


Malmö-Copenhagen bridge, "HST" Stockholm-Malmö/Gothenburg/Oslo, Arlandabanan,... are they really older than 20 years? Cannot believe that.

Count also investments in the rolling stock.

(P.S. Was the main purpose of your message to find an excuse to criticize the Swedish immigration policy?)
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:22 am

YIMBY wrote:
Begues wrote:
YIMBY wrote:

Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Not really, in the last 20 years there have been 3 major railway projects with a combined cost of around $5 billion, (Botniabanan costing $2 billion, Citybanan in Stockholm costing $2 billion and Citytunneln in Malmö costing $1 billion). Sweden has spent more than that on immigration every year for the last several years. The Hallandsåstunneln I don't count as that was a 1990s project that should have finished in 1997.


Malmö-Copenhagen bridge, "HST" Stockholm-Malmö/Gothenburg/Oslo, Arlandabanan,... are they really older than 20 years? Cannot believe that.

Count also investments in the rolling stock.

(P.S. Was the main purpose of your message to find an excuse to criticize the Swedish immigration policy?)


Arlandabanan opened in 1999 (and killed a lot of shorter domestic flight routes), Öresundsbron opened in 2000, so within the last 20 years or so. If you by "HST" mean the X2000, they have been used since 1990.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 804
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:25 am

BRA has ordered four new ATR72-600s, which will be used to retire three ATR72-500s.
 
cityairline
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:29 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:39 am

Begues wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So what's the reason for this drop? Why are there so many fewer passengers? Are people switching to trains or was market artificially stimulated through too much competition?


Sweden has made huge investments in their railway network. I cannot say if the current trains can be described as luxury, but previously the trains were a misery.


Not really, in the last 20 years there have been 3 major railway projects with a combined cost of around $5 billion, (Botniabanan costing $2 billion, Citybanan in Stockholm costing $2 billion and Citytunneln in Malmö costing $1 billion). Sweden has spent more than that on immigration every year for the last several years. The Hallandsåstunneln I don't count as that was a 1990s project that should have finished in 1997.

You’re forgetting the biggest ongoing project right now, the West Link Tunnel (Västlänken) through Gothenburg with three underground stops, at the price tag of $5 billion.
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:48 am

Next summer season, Transavia is increasing ORY-KEF to 5 weekly.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:58 am

Apparently, this hasn't been posted yet:

OSL August 2019 statistics

Domestic: 1,022,958 (-2.7%)
International: 1,640,960 (+1%)
Total: 2,664,999 (-0.4%)

YTD total: 19,240,271 (+0.3%)
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:11 am

KEF August 2019 statistics

Total: 840,173 (-29,4%)

YTD total: 5,156,884 (-23.5%)
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:18 pm

Per Lentoposti, Laudamotion opens a new route from VIE to LPP on March 29, 2020. Will be operated twice a week. Great to see more routes from LPP!

According to their Twitter page, Lauda will also open VIE–HEL/TLL along with other 15 routes, but this hasn't been officially announced yet.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Adria Airways has been grounded for a few days now, they have until 02.10 to come up with a rescue plan otherwise their AOC will be suspended. Since there is zero chance of that happening, let's see if anyone steps in on CPH-LJU.
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:12 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Lauda will also open VIE–HEL/TLL along with other 15 routes, but this hasn't been officially announced yet.


According to unofficial news VIE-HEL will be daily. The first time HEL gets anything related to Ryanair? ;)
 
Someone83
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:18 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Per Lentoposti, Laudamotion opens a new route from VIE to LPP on March 29, 2020. Will be operated twice a week. Great to see more routes from LPP!.


Is there actually a demand between the two cities, if they also will fly til HEL?
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:56 pm

Someone83 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Per Lentoposti, Laudamotion opens a new route from VIE to LPP on March 29, 2020. Will be operated twice a week. Great to see more routes from LPP!.


Is there actually a demand between the two cities, if they also will fly til HEL?


Russia has a significant role in LPP, around 1/3 of the passengers have been Russians/going to Russia, the airport is situated close to the border. This winter LPP is the only airport in Finland getting Ryanair flights, not much other operators seen there, zero domestic services. The growing group are the European tourists coming to Lake Finland in summer.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:44 am

MareBorealis wrote:

Russia has a significant role in LPP, around 1/3 of the passengers have been Russians/going to Russia, the airport is situated close to the border. This winter LPP is the only airport in Finland getting Ryanair flights, not much other operators seen there, zero domestic services. The growing group are the European tourists coming to Lake Finland in summer.


Thanks for the info
 
finnishway
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:37 am

Interesring move from Ryanair to start HEL. They have years said that HEL is too expensive to fly to and Finavia which run the airport has said that prices are same for every airline, Ryanair will not get discounts they are asking for.

Of course competition in Vienna is though at the moment and probably drives competing airlines to try every possible route that possibly makes money. Finland is also one of those final frontiers in Europe where is space and for more airlines and routes, but its a bit far away from the rest of Europe. It has been more lucrative for LCCs to fly shorter routes in Europe.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:53 am

finnishway wrote:
Interesring move from Ryanair to start HEL. They have years said that HEL is too expensive to fly to and Finavia which run the airport has said that prices are same for every airline, Ryanair will not get discounts they are asking for.

Of course competition in Vienna is though at the moment and probably drives competing airlines to try every possible route that possibly makes money. Finland is also one of those final frontiers in Europe where is space and for more airlines and routes, but its a bit far away from the rest of Europe. It has been more lucrative for LCCs to fly shorter routes in Europe.

Agree, Lauda is a good way to bypass finnish government. 56 km south (Tallinn) the same route (tll-vie) was operated by Nordica (LOT) and now only by BT, so it's good for the competition (and prices) to have a second choice.
 
User avatar
teme82
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:38 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:27 pm

MareBorealis wrote:
The growing group are the European tourists coming to Lake Finland in summer.

Do tell me how much LPP has the real traffic? I bet majority of the tourist will fly to HEL ...
Flying high and low
 
Someone83
Posts: 4391
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:12 pm

Norwegian in closing MAD-CPH, ARN and KEF
 
Blerg
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:35 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian in closing MAD-CPH, ARN and KEF


What were the frequencies on these routes? Are they being cut with the rest of the routes they announced some weeks ago?
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:32 am

Air Canada increases capacity to CPH in S20:

Toronto – Copenhagen
01MAY20 – 31MAY20 A330-300 replaces 787-9
eff 01JUN20 450-seater 777-300ER replaces 400-seater

Routesonline


I find it slightly weird that AC has this much capacity on CPH route while that HEL, ARN or OSL does not even have routes to YYZ. This can also explain the high capacity on YYZ-CPH though...
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos