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waoz1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:03 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Could.ypu be better served however if the airport could let you or other users fly direct to say CDG and FRA? So your experience is not as good as it could be?


Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.


But QF aren't asking PAPL to "fork out on something", they want to use their existing facilities.


T3 is owned by the airport, the state government stumped up $14 million with QF/PAPL or just PAPL the rest (that wasnt made clear at the time). So expanding services out of T3 will need some additional works at some stage if they want to add services.
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1650
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:07 am

waoz1 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
To be honest being a local using the airport and not working for an airline or airport. I find Perth airport as a passenger a good experience and thats what should count.


Could.ypu be better served however if the airport could let you or other users fly direct to say CDG and FRA? So your experience is not as good as it could be?


Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.


Even if SYD and MEL are served direct by QF to LHR/CDG/FRA, in my view there would still be a reasonable connecting market from say CNS, BNE, CBR, HBA, ADL, DRW and ASP etc to help fill the plane that QF would promote over Asia or other connections. he significant BHP et al mining presence alone should be a pretty decent PER origin feed. Combined, these would help keep the LHR flights and perhaps 3pw flying to CDG/FRA (though bilateral would need revision as a daily SYD flight would IIRC use the whole bilateral).

To me the Project Sunrise aircraft are about taking market share back from competitors rather than redeploying their current market share. T
 
getluv
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:42 am

waoz1 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
waoz1 wrote:

Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.


But QF aren't asking PAPL to "fork out on something", they want to use their existing facilities.


T3 is owned by the airport, the state government stumped up $14 million with QF/PAPL or just PAPL the rest (that wasnt made clear at the time). So expanding services out of T3 will need some additional works at some stage if they want to add services.


Jesus. What are you talking about?

QF have not asked for additional works to be done. All QF is proposing is adding routes using its existing facilities in T3. QF would not be entertaining adding additional services from PER if it was not physically possible.
I'm that bad type.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 am

qf2220 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Could.ypu be better served however if the airport could let you or other users fly direct to say CDG and FRA? So your experience is not as good as it could be?


Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.


Even if SYD and MEL are served direct by QF to LHR/CDG/FRA, in my view there would still be a reasonable connecting market from say CNS, BNE, CBR, HBA, ADL, DRW and ASP etc to help fill the plane that QF would promote over Asia or other connections. he significant BHP et al mining presence alone should be a pretty decent PER origin feed. Combined, these would help keep the LHR flights and perhaps 3pw flying to CDG/FRA (though bilateral would need revision as a daily SYD flight would IIRC use the whole bilateral).

To me the Project Sunrise aircraft are about taking market share back from competitors rather than redeploying their current market share. T


I have to agree, not to mention project sunrise for LHR/JFK/GRU- SYD/MEL is maybe 4-5hwars away at the earliest, if successful then I could see FRA/CDG-SYD/MEL we are now talking 10years away. At which point I agree that potential between PER and other connections a 3-4 PER service would to viable in its own right. Not to mention who can predict what shape EY will be in at that point.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:28 am

qf2220 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Could.ypu be better served however if the airport could let you or other users fly direct to say CDG and FRA? So your experience is not as good as it could be?


Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.


Even if SYD and MEL are served direct by QF to LHR/CDG/FRA, in my view there would still be a reasonable connecting market from say CNS, BNE, CBR, HBA, ADL, DRW and ASP etc to help fill the plane that QF would promote over Asia or other connections. he significant BHP et al mining presence alone should be a pretty decent PER origin feed. Combined, these would help keep the LHR flights and perhaps 3pw flying to CDG/FRA (though bilateral would need revision as a daily SYD flight would IIRC use the whole bilateral).

To me the Project Sunrise aircraft are about taking market share back from competitors rather than redeploying their current market share. T


HBA would need QF to serve PER non-stop for that; but yes, in principle there appears to be sufficient connecting traffic as well as O&D passengers going by the breakdown of the PER-LHR figures, which I realise include transfers from flights other than QF9.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4981
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:04 am

waoz1 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
To be honest being a local using the airport and not working for an airline or airport. I find Perth airport as a passenger a good experience and thats what should count.


Could.ypu be better served however if the airport could let you or other users fly direct to say CDG and FRA? So your experience is not as good as it could be?


Well this is the thing, if we are talking QF not like they have really looked after Perth intentionally over the years. For a while there we had no services at all. I think most in the West would have the feeling if they added CDG and FRA for a while then they could use an aircraft that could go SYD direct... Perth would be dropped in a second. So I could see why PAPL would be reluctant to fork out on something that in all probability wouldnt last.

That's what contracts & agreements are for. I am sure an agreement could be worked out to satisfy both parties requirements, although neither may like the price, in which case they don't get what they want. It is something like this that would be the result of Commonwealth government intervention, if it happens.

Gemuser
 
brucetiki
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:55 am

AVB wrote:
Dafydd wrote:
Can anyone provide some insight as to why Flypelican is ceasing its NTL - ADL flights in April?
The article states its not a viable service, and I can't find any published load factor statistics.

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5825 ... ide-route/

It must have been a big jump for them from operating 19 seat turboprops to having flights operated by Alliance with F100/70


Non daily schedule and inconsistent departure times made it unapealling. The loads just weren’t there.


13kg luggage allowance on the base fare wouldn't have helped either.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:33 am

Yesterday's QF55/56 BNE-LAX was cancelled due to ZNH going tech

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b787- ... cal-issue/
Forum Moderator
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:15 am

Hey guys,
With the seemingly never-ending drama between Qantas and Perth Airport, and before then Qantas and Canberra Airport, it will be interesting to see how things go between Qantas and Sydney West's management team.
Apparently John Borghetti came out again recently in the Sydney print media stating that both Virgin Australia and Tigerair will operate from SWZ, with him seemingly much more upbeat about SWZ than Alan Joyce.
I expect SWZ to be a 'topic' during NSW state and Australian federal elections in the first half of 2019... And I still believe that generally speaking the airport has the support of 'Mr and Mrs Average' in western Sydney. It certainly does with all of my family, friends and business contacts who live and/or work in western Sydney.
Cheers,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
moa999
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:39 am

Not sure if there is much difference between the parties on Badgerys. Both want to build it and it takes time with land clearing, flattening and site prep.

The Libs (well at least when MT was leading it) have committed to having a rail connection to St.Marys when it opens, and Labor has also supported rail links though don't think committed to an actual plan.

Details are still being worked on but personally think a Metro that could ultimately be extended to Schofields and Tallawong to connect to the NW Metro would be sensible.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3190
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:14 am

JB may well have said that VA and TT will operate from the new airport, but there’s a couple of points to be raised there:

1/ He is stepping down soon from his role, so that decision may change with new management
2/ Aviation changes quite fast, which could well see significant changes occur in that time. Whether VA and/or TT are still flying in their same form at that point is just as likely to be a consideration.

The new airport presents new opportunities, but for the most part it is likely the more premium carriers will still be focusing on the existing airport, which is closer to the higher yielding traffic generators, with LCC’s to be a main user of the new facility.
 
waoz1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:11 am

Qantas to start x4 weekly
Sydney-Nadi flights

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-direct- ... ource=hero
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:17 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
With the seemingly never-ending drama between Qantas and Perth Airport, and before then Qantas and Canberra Airport, it will be interesting to see how things go between Qantas and Sydney West's management team.
Apparently John Borghetti came out again recently in the Sydney print media stating that both Virgin Australia and Tigerair will operate from SWZ, with him seemingly much more upbeat about SWZ than Alan Joyce.
I expect SWZ to be a 'topic' during NSW state and Australian federal elections in the first half of 2019... And I still believe that generally speaking the airport has the support of 'Mr and Mrs Average' in western Sydney. It certainly does with all of my family, friends and business contacts who live and/or work in western Sydney.
Cheers,
Bunumuring


Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3390
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:35 am

aviationaware wrote:
bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
With the seemingly never-ending drama between Qantas and Perth Airport, and before then Qantas and Canberra Airport, it will be interesting to see how things go between Qantas and Sydney West's management team.
Apparently John Borghetti came out again recently in the Sydney print media stating that both Virgin Australia and Tigerair will operate from SWZ, with him seemingly much more upbeat about SWZ than Alan Joyce.
I expect SWZ to be a 'topic' during NSW state and Australian federal elections in the first half of 2019... And I still believe that generally speaking the airport has the support of 'Mr and Mrs Average' in western Sydney. It certainly does with all of my family, friends and business contacts who live and/or work in western Sydney.
Cheers,
Bunumuring


Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.


I live in the Eastern Suburbs and I'm wholeheartedly for closing SYD entirely and building a proper, large, 24/7 facility at Badgeries. Connect it to a future HSR with Express Rail connections from places like Central and we're good to go on a Sydney for the 21st Century. The most unfortunate thing about Sydney, and NSW in general, though is that it will never happen because Governments at all levels are manifestly incapable of properly planning anything or articulating any sort of vision. (Unless we're talking Stadiums and poorly built apartment highrises but I think that's for the Non-Av forum!).
 
MooLor
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:17 am

Sydscott wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
With the seemingly never-ending drama between Qantas and Perth Airport, and before then Qantas and Canberra Airport, it will be interesting to see how things go between Qantas and Sydney West's management team.
Apparently John Borghetti came out again recently in the Sydney print media stating that both Virgin Australia and Tigerair will operate from SWZ, with him seemingly much more upbeat about SWZ than Alan Joyce.
I expect SWZ to be a 'topic' during NSW state and Australian federal elections in the first half of 2019... And I still believe that generally speaking the airport has the support of 'Mr and Mrs Average' in western Sydney. It certainly does with all of my family, friends and business contacts who live and/or work in western Sydney.
Cheers,
Bunumuring


Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.


I live in the Eastern Suburbs and I'm wholeheartedly for closing SYD entirely and building a proper, large, 24/7 facility at Badgeries. Connect it to a future HSR with Express Rail connections from places like Central and we're good to go on a Sydney for the 21st Century. The most unfortunate thing about Sydney, and NSW in general, though is that it will never happen because Governments at all levels are manifestly incapable of properly planning anything or articulating any sort of vision. (Unless we're talking Stadiums and poorly built apartment highrises but I think that's for the Non-Av forum!).


Long way to run on the SYD lease - another 80 years? I'd think by the time it comes to an end SWZ will have been expanded to become THE Sydney airport as you describe - Sydney's 'Changi'. SYD to fill a 'London City' role, or be turned into yet another Sydney apartment farm.

Long time though 80 years - I wonder what the aviation industry will look like by then.
 
vhebb
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:03 am

In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice
 
Qantas16
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:27 am

vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


Those are some big changes. A daily year round A330 is a massive increase on a previously unserved route. I wonder if QF's presence is hurting JQ though or if it's mostly stimulating new demand or taking away from VA/GA....

Great news that CGK and MNL are increasing and presumably CGK will be daily year round soon as well.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:42 am

Qantas16 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


Those are some big changes. A daily year round A330 is a massive increase on a previously unserved route. I wonder if QF's presence is hurting JQ though or if it's mostly stimulating new demand or taking away from VA/GA....

Great news that CGK and MNL are increasing and presumably CGK will be daily year round soon as well.


Indeed very interesting, hopefully the 737 on MEL-DPS might see A330s in the peak season. I wonder if they have also thought about 737s from PER or BNE up to DPS.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 235
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:49 am

PER-BNE is way too saturated for QF to have a presence at this point. Another question is there enough "cashed up" people (apart from miners) willing to pay for the recliners?

BNE, I'm guessing QF may fly BNE-DPS with 737s only seasonally during 'peak' season (November-January?) with a late afternoon departure to compliment the daily JQ 787 (equipped with the J-class recliners).
 
QF742
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:54 am

vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


It’s pretty amazing how some of these leisure markets have developed over the last decade. I never thought I would see QF return to Bali when the routes were handed over to Australian Airlines, then JQ. Would love to see the QF A330 on the MEL-DPS flights. I recently booked flights to DPS and chose the JQ 788 over the QF 738. It may be irrational, but a narrow body over 4-5 hours starts feeling a bit claustrophobic!
 
oskarclare
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:20 am

vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


Additionally BNE-NOU will see an increase to 2x weekly flights, with a Tuesday flight being added from 2/4/19 with 738.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:26 am

MooLor wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
aviationaware wrote:

Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.


I live in the Eastern Suburbs and I'm wholeheartedly for closing SYD entirely and building a proper, large, 24/7 facility at Badgeries. Connect it to a future HSR with Express Rail connections from places like Central and we're good to go on a Sydney for the 21st Century. The most unfortunate thing about Sydney, and NSW in general, though is that it will never happen because Governments at all levels are manifestly incapable of properly planning anything or articulating any sort of vision. (Unless we're talking Stadiums and poorly built apartment highrises but I think that's for the Non-Av forum!).


Long way to run on the SYD lease - another 80 years? I'd think by the time it comes to an end SWZ will have been expanded to become THE Sydney airport as you describe - Sydney's 'Changi'. SYD to fill a 'London City' role, or be turned into yet another Sydney apartment farm.

Long time though 80 years - I wonder what the aviation industry will look like by then.


Whilst I’d love to see this, I just don’t think Australia in any state is capable of any infrastructure developments of that scale. We won’t ever have our own Changi, DOH or HKG, we are too short sighted and can’t even plan for longer term expansion yet alone build the capacity to start with. Best we can hope for is all AU airports start to at least improve their band aird style solutions to something a bit more practical and user friendly. Nice will have to do, world class I out of reach.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:39 am

vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


Some interesting changes. I hope we see QF continue their 737 international expansion with MEL-NAN. Wonder how VA will cope with the competition, wonder how much QF cooperates with FJ given they still own 50%.

Great to see MNL go daily, and CGK edge closer. Be good to see 3weekly ex-MEL to CGK, and perhaps even PVG. I know QF and MU have a JBA but some QF FF would still rather QF metal over MU. QF seem to be holding their own to Asia these days. What other holes do they have that need plugging? ADL-SIN? PER-HKG?
 
getluv
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:00 am

QF742 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


It’s pretty amazing how some of these leisure markets have developed over the last decade. I never thought I would see QF return to Bali when the routes were handed over to Australian Airlines, then JQ. Would love to see the QF A330 on the MEL-DPS flights. I recently booked flights to DPS and chose the JQ 788 over the QF 738. It may be irrational, but a narrow body over 4-5 hours starts feeling a bit claustrophobic!


On some days the 737s have 30+ odd blocked seats so the chances of having an empty seat next to you are pretty good.

smi0006 wrote:
What other holes do they have that need plugging? ADL-SIN? PER-HKG?


I would say PER-HKG is more unlikely than ADL-SIN given that QF now code shares on CX.

I'm expecting additional flights to SIN to be announced once they've upgraded/added more lounges in SIN; I know the third SYD-SIN service has done really well and I would say ADL-SIN must be on the radar for the short-medium term. However, as QF do not have an A330 base in ADL it does make it more difficult schedule and work economically.
Last edited by getluv on Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm that bad type.
 
moa999
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:07 am

smi0006 wrote:
Whilst I’d love to see this, I just don’t think Australia in any state is capable of any infrastructure developments of that scale. We won’t ever have our own Changi, DOH or HKG, we are too short sighted and can’t even plan for longer term expansion yet alone build the capacity to start with. Best we can hope for is all AU airports start to at least improve their band aird style solutions to something a bit more practical and user friendly. Nice will have to do, world class I out of reach.


Longer term Changi has issues as a hub as the narrow bodies get greater range so you get more overflight. The Australian airports don't have the same geographical advantage.

Privately owned airports also have a harder time funding expansions.
Governments can borrow cheaper and get other side benefits (eg. Taxes from greater employment, % of additional GDP from tourists)

It's no wonder the Australian airports predominately spend in areas with quick profit - retail outlets and carparks.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:43 am

getluv wrote:
QF742 wrote:
vhebb wrote:
In addition to the new QF SYD-NAN-SYD service QF has made some other international changes:

*The 4th weekly SYD-NOU-SYD has been made permanent year round

*SYD-DPS-SYD will see permanent A330s replacing B73Hs from March 2019 onwards

*SYD-CGK-SYD will see service increases from March 2019 (Daily flights during some months)

*QF will be daily year round SYD-MNL-SYD

*B744s on the SYD-HNL route, and A330s on the PER-SIN route will both remain until futher notice


It’s pretty amazing how some of these leisure markets have developed over the last decade. I never thought I would see QF return to Bali when the routes were handed over to Australian Airlines, then JQ. Would love to see the QF A330 on the MEL-DPS flights. I recently booked flights to DPS and chose the JQ 788 over the QF 738. It may be irrational, but a narrow body over 4-5 hours starts feeling a bit claustrophobic!


On some days the 737s have 30+ odd blocked seats so the chances of having an empty seat next to you are pretty good.

smi0006 wrote:
What other holes do they have that need plugging? ADL-SIN? PER-HKG?


I would say PER-HKG is more unlikely than ADL-SIN given that QF now code shares on CX.

I'm expecting additional flights to SIN to be announced once they've upgraded/added more lounges in SIN; I know the third SYD-SIN service has done really well and I would say ADL-SIN must be on the radar for the short-medium term. However, as QF do not have an A330 base in ADL it does make it more difficult schedule and work economically.


A330s to ADL could easily be rotated through Singapore, although im not sure how much spare capacity there is in the A330 fleet?

Could possibly be a contender for JQ A321LR.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3390
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:48 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF742 wrote:

It’s pretty amazing how some of these leisure markets have developed over the last decade. I never thought I would see QF return to Bali when the routes were handed over to Australian Airlines, then JQ. Would love to see the QF A330 on the MEL-DPS flights. I recently booked flights to DPS and chose the JQ 788 over the QF 738. It may be irrational, but a narrow body over 4-5 hours starts feeling a bit claustrophobic!


On some days the 737s have 30+ odd blocked seats so the chances of having an empty seat next to you are pretty good.

smi0006 wrote:
What other holes do they have that need plugging? ADL-SIN? PER-HKG?


I would say PER-HKG is more unlikely than ADL-SIN given that QF now code shares on CX.

I'm expecting additional flights to SIN to be announced once they've upgraded/added more lounges in SIN; I know the third SYD-SIN service has done really well and I would say ADL-SIN must be on the radar for the short-medium term. However, as QF do not have an A330 base in ADL it does make it more difficult schedule and work economically.


A330s to ADL could easily be rotated through Singapore, although im not sure how much spare capacity there is in the A330 fleet?

Could possibly be a contender for JQ A321LR.


That's exactly what I was going to say. A JQ or 3K A321LR is, in my opinion, the most likely candidate to be placed on ADL-SIN and to open up something like CNS-SIN for the Group.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:23 am

aviationaware wrote:
bunumuring wrote:
And I still believe that generally speaking the airport has the support of 'Mr and Mrs Average' in western Sydney. It certainly does with all of my family, friends and business contacts who live and/or work in western Sydney.
Cheers,
Bunumuring


Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.


Sydney will have 2 airports though, SYD aint going nowhere.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:05 am

Scoot TR7 OOL-SIN diverted to SYD today... would presume for mechanical reasons. Plane initially filed to return to OOL and was at only ~7000feet when it then decided (presumably company orders) to divert to SYD instead!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TGW ... /YBCG/YSSY
 
TaniTaniwha
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 am

MooLor wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
aviationaware wrote:

Can say the exact opposite for anyone living in the Eastern Suburbs like myself. Can't imagine anything more stupid than moving the airport to the outback.


I live in the Eastern Suburbs and I'm wholeheartedly for closing SYD entirely and building a proper, large, 24/7 facility at Badgeries. Connect it to a future HSR with Express Rail connections from places like Central and we're good to go on a Sydney for the 21st Century. The most unfortunate thing about Sydney, and NSW in general, though is that it will never happen because Governments at all levels are manifestly incapable of properly planning anything or articulating any sort of vision. (Unless we're talking Stadiums and poorly built apartment highrises but I think that's for the Non-Av forum!).


Long way to run on the SYD lease - another 80 years? I'd think by the time it comes to an end SWZ will have been expanded to become THE Sydney airport as you describe - Sydney's 'Changi'. SYD to fill a 'London City' role, or be turned into yet another Sydney apartment farm.

Long time though 80 years - I wonder what the aviation industry will look like by then.


You'd think having competition between Sydney's two airports is just one of the many benefits of a second airport. Along with that, there's also for those living in the Eastern Suburbs doesn't necessarily mean you have to go the the "outback" to catch your flight. In fact, it should make the Eastern Suburbs NIMBY's grateful a second airport relives them of current and potential Aircraft noise
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:08 am

Maybe it was previously discussed and I missed it, but when looking at flights to HKG for October I was surprised to see that QF117 is going to be an overnight flight north-bound.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:13 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe it was previously discussed and I missed it, but when looking at flights to HKG for October I was surprised to see that QF117 is going to be an overnight flight north-bound.


That was announced late last year. QF117 will operate as an overnight flight, aircraft will sit on the ground all day in HKG before departing HKG in the evening.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:56 am

qf789 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe it was previously discussed and I missed it, but when looking at flights to HKG for October I was surprised to see that QF117 is going to be an overnight flight north-bound.


That was announced late last year. QF117 will operate as an overnight flight, aircraft will sit on the ground all day in HKG before departing HKG in the evening.


Seems inefficient, must be a high yielding flight time. I wonder if longer term, they can somehow rotate the aircraft in and out off other routes?
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:21 am

Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:47 am

Sydscott wrote:

I live in the Eastern Suburbs and I'm wholeheartedly for closing SYD entirely and building a proper, large, 24/7 facility at Badgeries. Connect it to a future HSR with Express Rail connections from places like Central and we're good to go on a Sydney for the 21st Century. The most unfortunate thing about Sydney, and NSW in general, though is that it will never happen because Governments at all levels are manifestly incapable of properly planning anything or articulating any sort of vision. (Unless we're talking Stadiums and poorly built apartment highrises but I think that's for the Non-Av forum!).


I live in the inner city and I'm all for SYD to stay where it is for the foreseeable future :D

Not only is it a short 20-30 min cab ride away, but if SYD was to be closed, the thing I will probably miss most is seeing planes climb out over the inner west/CBD off 16R/34L. My desk at work in the CBD looks out west over Darling Harbour/Balmain and the Parramatta River, and depending upon the runway direction on a particular day, I get to see the QF A380's/747's turn right over Sydney Harbour as they climb out towards the US. If I look carefully enough, I can also get a glimpse of the other widebodies as they fly out North towards Asia, NW towards SE Asia/Middle East. Of course those living under the flight path would disagree wholeheartedly :lol:

I also never get tired of seeing the Sydney CBD/Harbour Bridge on approach (if coming in and landing from the North), and for first time visitors to Australia, you always get the priceless moment when everyone looks out the windows to see Sydney from the air. Landing at SWZ will be a far less visually appealing view.
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
qantas747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:00 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.


I wonder if its a slot issue. QF may be just waiting a little until they can get a suitable daytime slot to come back.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:49 am

qantas747 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.


I wonder if its a slot issue. QF may be just waiting a little until they can get a suitable daytime slot to come back.

Could be both, but just on a sidenote on my personal (i.e. non-scientific) observation CX seems to always sells the daytime HKG-AU at the cheapest so this could be some hint regarding the load. Although I do admit CX benifits from the European connection.

Michael
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:27 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.



From a reliable source, I understand A330s will be rotated on QF117/118 for maintenance in HKG.
I'm that bad type.
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:38 am

BITRE domestic figures for November have been released at https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/domestic_airline_activity-monthly_publications.aspx.

MEZ-SYD had an 89.4% load factor - you've got to be kidding me! In fact, the lowest load factor of the top nine routes was ADL-MEZ with 85.0%.

I'd say there's some serious coin being made; but surely being too full starts to cost you at some point? It will be interesting to see whatcapacity levels get deployed in NW19-20.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:43 am

getluv wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.



From a reliable source, I understand A330s will be rotated on QF117/118 for maintenance in HKG.


That would make some sense, but what happen to engineers in Brisbane if the A330 maintenance was outsourced? Line maintenance for the 787 fleet?
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:52 am

qf789 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Maybe it was previously discussed and I missed it, but when looking at flights to HKG for October I was surprised to see that QF117 is going to be an overnight flight north-bound.


That was announced late last year. QF117 will operate as an overnight flight, aircraft will sit on the ground all day in HKG before departing HKG in the evening.


Thanks for that, not sure how I missed it.

This seems highly inefficient unless maintenance is completed, as suggested above. QF117/118 goes from requiring one frame to 1.5
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getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:50 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
getluv wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Announced last November, see https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-shakes- ... ht-flights, and yes it's very strange that QF117 SYD-HKG leg is overnight but QF118 HKG-SYD leg is also overnight, so the aircraft spends all day on the ground. I would have thought that making QF118 into a daytime flight would have been a popular alternative to an overnight. I can't see how QF can do anything with the aircraft but park it at HKG.



From a reliable source, I understand A330s will be rotated on QF117/118 for maintenance in HKG.


That would make some sense, but what happen to engineers in Brisbane if the A330 maintenance was outsourced? Line maintenance for the 787 fleet?


My understanding is that the contract went to Haeco which would explain why CX and QF's relationship is continuing to grow at present as Haeco is 100% owned by Swire. I'm not 100% on the specifics but given that the A330s are doing more international flying they needed an international base to do A-checks. The only lengthy downtime the A330s get outside of Australia is the six hours overnight in AKL from SYD which would not be enough time to perform an A-check.
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:53 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
Scoot TR7 OOL-SIN diverted to SYD today... would presume for mechanical reasons. Plane initially filed to return to OOL and was at only ~7000feet when it then decided (presumably company orders) to divert to SYD instead!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TGW ... /YBCG/YSSY


Diverted due to disruptive passenger

https://twitter.com/airportwebcams/stat ... 64837?s=21
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VA82
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Scoot TR7 OOL-SIN diverted to SYD today... would presume for mechanical reasons. Plane initially filed to return to OOL and was at only ~7000feet when it then decided (presumably company orders) to divert to SYD instead!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TGW ... /YBCG/YSSY


Diverted due to disruptive passenger

https://twitter.com/airportwebcams/stat ... 64837?s=21


There's a video of the brawl caused by said disruptive passenger (other passengers report that he was drinking excessively before hand) here:
https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/22/06/ ... gold-coast
 
aerohottie
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:49 pm

TasFlyer wrote:
BITRE domestic figures for November have been released at https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/domestic_airline_activity-monthly_publications.aspx.

MEZ-SYD had an 89.4% load factor - you've got to be kidding me! In fact, the lowest load factor of the top nine routes was ADL-MEZ with 85.0%.

I'd say there's some serious coin being made; but surely being too full starts to cost you at some point? It will be interesting to see what capacity levels get deployed in NW19-20.


With SYD being so congested you'd think the case for larger aircraft and less frequency could be made. 737-10's or A321's at the very least, but hopefully something bigger still in the future
What?
 
Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:32 pm

TasFlyer wrote:
BITRE domestic figures for November have been released at https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/domestic_airline_activity-monthly_publications.aspx.

MEZ-SYD had an 89.4% load factor - you've got to be kidding me! In fact, the lowest load factor of the top nine routes was ADL-MEZ with 85.0%.

I'd say there's some serious coin being made; but surely being too full starts to cost you at some point? It will be interesting to see whatcapacity levels get deployed in NW19-20.

MEZ-SYD??? Wouldn't think there would be a lot of traffic Messina South Africa to Sydney! I assume you meant MEL, if so I don't think they are particularly high on an historical basis, they seem to be in the same ball park as Ansett & TAA got.

Gemuser
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:00 pm

aerohottie wrote:
With SYD being so congested you'd think the case for larger aircraft and less frequency could be made. 737-10's or A321's at the very least, but hopefully something bigger still in the future


QF has previously mentioned interest in the still to be launched 797 for domestic routes (it's optimised for lower length journeys) - effectively replacing 332s and 737s.

I'd think any larger narrow body is more likely to be used on thinner routes to Asia with a better Business Class product.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:45 pm

moa999 wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
With SYD being so congested you'd think the case for larger aircraft and less frequency could be made. 737-10's or A321's at the very least, but hopefully something bigger still in the future


QF has previously mentioned interest in the still to be launched 797 for domestic routes (it's optimised for lower length journeys) - effectively replacing 332s and 737s.

I'd think any larger narrow body is more likely to be used on thinner routes to Asia with a better Business Class product.


I'm still unsure what the 797 is to be optimised for. Is it shorter distances with greater seating (effectively targeting the A310/A321 market) or is it longer narrow routes replacing the 757 market? There is also the issue of wingspan. Longer range will probably mean a wider wingspan which could be an issue fitting into gates currently designed for A320/737s. Folding wingtips are an option but probably not ideal where fast turnarounds are needed.
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moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:10 am

Well it's still in development as Boeing tries to define (it's most profitable) market.

I think it's generally accepted it's being targeted at shorter routes, given almost every other widebody 333neo, 350, 777x, 787 is targeted at longer routes.

But seems to be a push from US airlines for a 4000 mile range so it can fly east coast US to Europe.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 166
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:50 am

Gemuser wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
BITRE domestic figures for November have been released at https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/domestic_airline_activity-monthly_publications.aspx.

MEZ-SYD had an 89.4% load factor - you've got to be kidding me! In fact, the lowest load factor of the top nine routes was ADL-MEZ with 85.0%.

I'd say there's some serious coin being made; but surely being too full starts to cost you at some point? It will be interesting to see whatcapacity levels get deployed in NW19-20.

MEZ-SYD??? Wouldn't think there would be a lot of traffic Messina South Africa to Sydney! I assume you meant MEL, if so I don't think they are particularly high on an historical basis, they seem to be in the same ball park as Ansett & TAA got.

Gemuser


I pilfered JQ's MEZ code for 'All Melbourne Airports' because the figures for 'Melbourne-Sydney' include AVV-SYD.
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