ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

I'll add that people I've met outside of NZ find the Air NZ livery brilliant. It's striking in a see of common patterns. I think globally the thing that really makes it stand out is the fern on the aft fuselage. If it was solid black it would blend in too much with all the other airilnes doing that now.

And I totally agree on the Koru. It has to stay while they're called Air NZ. Like the Kangaroo for Qantas or the Crane for Lufthansa or the bird for Singapore. It's a core part of the brand history.

Gasman wrote:

Megatop747-412 wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

Maybe off topic, but I always argue with people over the 70's v 80's livery and that it's different. Many I've spoken with think it stayed the same for a very long time where in fact it's actually very different

Which do you prefer, I'm a massive fan of the early 80's and 90's but love the black nose of the 70's.

Vs

A tough decision for me to decide which do I prefer, but having said that, the B762 in the 80's livery will ALWAYS hold a special place in me. NZ's (TE at the time) B762 ZK-NBA was the 1st time ever that I've travelled inside an airplane, so that was pretty special. I remember seeing it in Singapore's Changi Airport back in the day and thought that it was a stunner...

The 762 in that 80's livery looked like a well tailored suit. As did the DC-8 in the 1960's Southern Cross livery.

The 762 was a great aircraft. Very clean lines, relatively quiet and technically very advanced (at the time) - it was the first aircraft for NZ to have a glass cockpit and the first widebody for NZ to have a two person crew. It was also - very significantly at the time - the first widebody for NZ that "fitted" WLG. As a Wellingtonian at the time, this was huge and we loved seeing it fly in over the harbour at the end of a trans Tasman trip. The internal ergonomics were also excellent - something we can only reminisce about today.

NTLDaz wrote:

Gasman wrote:

Megatop747-412 wrote:

A tough decision for me to decide which do I prefer, but having said that, the B762 in the 80's livery will ALWAYS hold a special place in me. NZ's (TE at the time) B762 ZK-NBA was the 1st time ever that I've travelled inside an airplane, so that was pretty special. I remember seeing it in Singapore's Changi Airport back in the day and thought that it was a stunner...

The 762 in that 80's livery looked like a well tailored suit. As did the DC-8 in the 1960's Southern Cross livery.

The 762 was a great aircraft. Very clean lines, relatively quiet and technically very advanced (at the time) - it was the first aircraft for NZ to have a glass cockpit and the first widebody for NZ to have a two person crew. It was also - very significantly at the time - the first widebody for NZ that "fitted" WLG. As a Wellingtonian at the time, this was huge and we loved seeing it fly in over the harbour at the end of a trans Tasman trip. The internal ergonomics were also excellent - something we can only reminisce about today.

To think at one point the only international flight out of Wellington was a QF 747SP.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Looking at QF’s schedules for AKL for NS19 it looks like they will add an additional daily A330 SYD-AKL at the expense of MEL-AKL which gets a 3rd 738 and 1 A330. They also look to be stopping the red eye MEL-AKL which I’ve always thought was for utilisation purposes and probably a freight run. They are adding an early afternoon ex MEL in its place.

I did wonder weather something like that might happen but I thought maybe they would do 2 daily A330’s AKL-BNE over the NS given BNE’s warmer climate.

NZ6 wrote:

It's interesting when I see a widebody offshore, I don't mind the livery as much. It certainly stands out and looks like a modern stylish design. When I see a row of A320/ATR/Q300 at AKL, WLG or even CHC it becomes overkill very quickly.

LamboAston wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

It's interesting when I see a widebody offshore, I don't mind the livery as much. It certainly stands out and looks like a modern stylish design. When I see a row of A320/ATR/Q300 at AKL, WLG or even CHC it becomes overkill very quickly.

I definitely agree there.

Whoopeecock wrote:

Must of been a horrible flight, pretty unusual for an airline to refund fares when they got where they were supposed to be going.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-t ... aN7HSYjhjI

PA515 wrote:

Air NZ has added a 789 to OOL on Sundays during the July 2019 school holidays.

AKL-OOL 0910/1055 320 Daily
OOL-AKL 1155/1655 320 Daily
AKL-OOL 1130/1315 789 Sun (07 Jul, 14 Jul, 21 Jul)
OOL-AKL 1430/1930 789 Sun (07 Jul, 14 Jul, 21 Jul)

The 789 does not connect with the IAH, ORD, YVR, SFO, LAX (NZ6) & EZE flights, but an interesting development.

PA515

ZK-NBT wrote:

That is interesting, are you sure the A320’s aren’t A321’s? I only ask because I’ve noticed the A321’s weren’t showing in the schedules. Do NZ even have a weekly schedule display now?

ZK-NBT wrote:

I wonder if we will see more 789’s in future peak periods, mainly school holidays etc if there is a spare frame? Probably not really J demand for it to be year round?

PA515 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

That is interesting, are you sure the A320’s aren’t A321’s? I only ask because I’ve noticed the A321’s weren’t showing in the schedules. Do NZ even have a weekly schedule display now?

A maximum of three of the five A321NEOs delivered by July 2019 are showing in the schedule, including one out of CHC. Looks to me like they are waiting until closer to the date before deciding which flights will be 320s and which will be 321NEOs. I expect most of the AKL-OOL 320s will be 321NEOs.

ZK-NBT wrote:

I wonder if we will see more 789’s in future peak periods, mainly school holidays etc if there is a spare frame? Probably not really J demand for it to be year round?

AKL-ADL had the occasional 763 around Xmas for a couple of years, so maybe a similar pattern. A certain resident of the Gold Coast thought there was potential for premium travel via AKL.

PA515

ZK-NBT wrote:

PA515 wrote:

Air NZ has added a 789 to OOL on Sundays during the July 2019 school holidays.PA515

I wonder if we will see more 789’s in future peak periods, mainly school holidays etc if there is a spare frame? Probably not really J demand for it to be year round?

PA515 wrote:

Air NZ has added a 789 to OOL on Sundays during the July 2019 school holidays.

AKL-OOL 0910/1055 320 Daily
OOL-AKL 1155/1655 320 Daily
AKL-OOL 1130/1315 789 Sun (07 Jul, 14 Jul, 21 Jul)
OOL-AKL 1430/1930 789 Sun (07 Jul, 14 Jul, 21 Jul)

The 789 does not connect with the IAH, ORD, YVR, SFO, LAX (NZ6) & EZE flights, but an interesting development.

PA515

Gasman wrote:

Whoopeecock wrote:

Must of been a horrible flight, pretty unusual for an airline to refund fares when they got where they were supposed to be going.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-t ... aN7HSYjhjI

And contrary to popular belief, those regional flights operate close to the margins, so if they're handing out refunds the flight will probably operate at a loss. Kudos.

I was once on an NZ AKL-LAX flight in Y+ on the upper deck. There were two people in the cabin who were antisocial, bordering on psychopathic. The crew didn't do much to manage them inflight (there wasn't much they could have done) but everyone else in that cabin got an apology and a couple of free lounge passes. NZ often do do damage control well.

DavidByrne wrote:

I'd have thought that there would be even less demand for J on short-haul Pacific flights too, but somehow AKL-NAN and AKL-RAR seem to be dominated by WBs rather than NBs, Personally, I think that there should be demand in the longer term for OOL residents to take NZ flights to Canada, the USA and South America, and that a WB makes sense to give a better customer experience for both J and Y passengers - and PE. Gold Coast is a pretty decent sized city now - bigger than Wellington or Christchurch.

NZ6 wrote:

Gasman wrote:

Whoopeecock wrote:

Must of been a horrible flight, pretty unusual for an airline to refund fares when they got where they were supposed to be going.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-t ... aN7HSYjhjI

And contrary to popular belief, those regional flights operate close to the margins, so if they're handing out refunds the flight will probably operate at a loss. Kudos.

I was once on an NZ AKL-LAX flight in Y+ on the upper deck. There were two people in the cabin who were antisocial, bordering on psychopathic. The crew didn't do much to manage them inflight (there wasn't much they could have done) but everyone else in that cabin got an apology and a couple of free lounge passes. NZ often do do damage control well.

It's interesting, I've seen this in 3 or 4 different forums and places now, it seems the commentary is more focused on how NZ managed this with a refund over why they decided to fly in this weather aka 'Dangerous or Unsafe conditions'.

Well managed?

Will be interesting to get an unofficial Pilots opinion on it

ZK-NBT wrote:

I wonder if we will see more 789’s in future peak periods, mainly school holidays etc if there is a spare frame? Probably not really J demand for it to be year round?

Gasman wrote:

NZ6 wrote:

Gasman wrote:

And contrary to popular belief, those regional flights operate close to the margins, so if they're handing out refunds the flight will probably operate at a loss. Kudos.

I was once on an NZ AKL-LAX flight in Y+ on the upper deck. There were two people in the cabin who were antisocial, bordering on psychopathic. The crew didn't do much to manage them inflight (there wasn't much they could have done) but everyone else in that cabin got an apology and a couple of free lounge passes. NZ often do do damage control well.

It's interesting, I've seen this in 3 or 4 different forums and places now, it seems the commentary is more focused on how NZ managed this with a refund over why they decided to fly in this weather aka 'Dangerous or Unsafe conditions'.

Well managed?

Will be interesting to get an unofficial Pilots opinion on it

A cynic might suggest they are handing out refunds to remove the microscope from the actual flight, yes.

Gasman wrote:

eta unknown wrote:

Gasman wrote:

I take your point, but to me they're all the same livery with minor evolutionary teeaks.

Nothing will ever trump the DC10 as NZ's best looking aircraft in my view. Followed very closely by the 1960's Southern Cross DC8

I'd go further and say an unfortunate tweak, but nothing more than a tweak. Plus I always thought the revision never looked quite right on the 747.

Agreed - but it wasn't exactly a clanger on the 747, and I felt it looked fine on the 744 - not so much the 742. Actually the thing that irritated me most about the 742 was the RB211 engines - not just for the fact NZ was politically coerced into buying them whereas they would've had GE; but also for the fact with the bare aluminium they looked really ugly.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-New- ... D6IyPjo%3D

aerokiwi wrote:

Gasman wrote:

eta unknown wrote:

I'd go further and say an unfortunate tweak, but nothing more than a tweak. Plus I always thought the revision never looked quite right on the 747.

Agreed - but it wasn't exactly a clanger on the 747, and I felt it looked fine on the 744 - not so much the 742. Actually the thing that irritated me most about the 742 was the RB211 engines - not just for the fact NZ was politically coerced into buying them whereas they would've had GE; but also for the fact with the bare aluminium they looked really ugly.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-New- ... D6IyPjo%3D

The RB211s irked me too. Not so much the bare metal but their tiny, stumpy look.

Meanwhile, the NZ liveries...

1. My first memories of NZ were the red and orange domestic 737s during the transition from NAC. There must've been one or two leftover in the early-mid 1980s when I was a wee tot, schlepping from Auckland to Invercargill on our annual family trek. Loved that look but probably more nostalgia than anything - especially on a wet day walking up the stairs into a warm, lolli-coloured interior (remember those seat patterns?), with the strong scent of avgas. Ahhhhh!

2. The current livery: actually really like the font; the black to white transition on the fuselage is clumsy; and the government-issued fern logo is awkwardly treated. The latter two issues could be fixed by using the Immigration NZ fern as the border itself between two colours, with the white conponents over the black paint and vice versa. How much longer is the relationship with the government for use of the fern logo? And the black... sigh... that's not my home.

3. There was a brilliant concept on that aviation livery database of an NZ 787 with the top 3/4 of the fuselage in a dark teal-like colour with koru swirls integrated in another shade of teal and a bold white koru on the tail and the font in white. It was quite magnificent and reflected NZ's treatment of branding in terminals at the time, making me wonder if it was on the shortlist or a little more official than let on. It really did make the current livery look amateur and tokenistic.

Anyway, my thoughts. Sorry for not including photos, which would make this post a lot more interesting, but struggle with that on a desktop, let alone a mobile phone.

Gasman wrote:

I think NZ ditching the teal was a wrong move. It was such an integral part of NZs feel and brand - right up there with QF red and LH blue and yellow. It didn't need to go.

DavidByrne wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

PA515 wrote:

Air NZ has added a 789 to OOL on Sundays during the July 2019 school holidays.PA515

I wonder if we will see more 789’s in future peak periods, mainly school holidays etc if there is a spare frame? Probably not really J demand for it to be year round?

I'd have thought that there would be even less demand for J on short-haul Pacific flights too, but somehow AKL-NAN and AKL-RAR seem to be dominated by WBs rather than NBs, Personally, I think that there should be demand in the longer term for OOL residents to take NZ flights to Canada, the USA and South America, and that a WB makes sense to give a better customer experience for both J and Y passengers - and PE. Gold Coast is a pretty decent sized city now - bigger than Wellington or Christchurch.

Birdiey wrote:

Hi, quick unrelated question, but is anyone aware of all the routes Air New Zealand's Boeing 747-200 fleet operated over the years?

ZK-NBT wrote:

Birdiey wrote:

Hi, quick unrelated question, but is anyone aware of all the routes Air New Zealand's Boeing 747-200 fleet operated over the years?

We could add what we no, heaps of 2-3 stops to LAX.

AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE/CNS/PER
AKL-APW/NAN/RAR/PPT
AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX
AKL-HNL-LAX
AKL-HNL
AKL-NAN-LAX
AKL-LAX
AKL-LAX-LGW
AKL-LAX-LHR
AKL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-LAX-LGW
AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-NAN-NRT
AKL-NRT
AKL-NRT-CHC-AKL
AKL-KIX
AKL-KIX-CHC-AKL
AKL-HKG (Kaitak)
AKL-SIN
CHC-SYD/MEL/BNE
CHC-NAN-HNL-LAX
CHC-HNL-LAX

Probably a few others or I may have missed added some stops that didn’t happen.

DavidByrne wrote:

Just booked my AKL-IVC flight for some time in late Oct - at the Grabaseat price of $59 couldn’t afford not to.

Wondering how long this flight will last though. At the moment there are 186 seats out of IVC each morning before 8.15. The addition of an A320 is an increase of about 90%. Hmm . . . challenging.

ZKSUJ wrote:

Funny all this talk about the colours. I also prefer teal and everything is now black with NZ yet I notice alot of pilots, cabin crew and ground staff wearing yellow high vis vests inside the terminal. I noticed the 2 ladies (customer facing) at baggage services in the domestic terminal in bright yellow yesterday sitting at their computers... Do they think they are Freedom air

ZKSUJ wrote:

Funny all this talk about the colours. I also prefer teal and everything is now black with NZ yet I notice alot of pilots, cabin crew and ground staff wearing yellow high vis vests inside the terminal. I noticed the 2 ladies (customer facing) at baggage services in the domestic terminal in bright yellow yesterday sitting at their computers... Do they think they are Freedom air

SelandiaBaru wrote:

ZKSUJ wrote:

Funny all this talk about the colours. I also prefer teal and everything is now black with NZ yet I notice alot of pilots, cabin crew and ground staff wearing yellow high vis vests inside the terminal. I noticed the 2 ladies (customer facing) at baggage services in the domestic terminal in bright yellow yesterday sitting at their computers... Do they think they are Freedom air

We're now not allowed to walk anywhere outside the terminal, even on designated walkways without our invincibility cloaks. Unless we have boarding pass to provide optimum protection and then it's fine. Thoughts are the new uniform will include higher visibility built in to solve the rigmarole of trying to achieve the opposing goals of workplace health & safety and the uniform policy.

Deepinsider wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Birdiey wrote:

Hi, quick unrelated question, but is anyone aware of all the routes Air New Zealand's Boeing 747-200 fleet operated over the years?

We could add what we no, heaps of 2-3 stops to LAX.

AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE/CNS/PER
AKL-APW/NAN/RAR/PPT
AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX
AKL-HNL-LAX
AKL-HNL
AKL-NAN-LAX
AKL-LAX
AKL-LAX-LGW
AKL-LAX-LHR
AKL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-LAX-LGW
AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-NAN-NRT
AKL-NRT
AKL-NRT-CHC-AKL
AKL-KIX
AKL-KIX-CHC-AKL
AKL-HKG (Kaitak)
AKL-SIN
CHC-SYD/MEL/BNE
CHC-NAN-HNL-LAX
CHC-HNL-LAX

Probably a few others or I may have missed added some stops that didn’t happen.

For a while there was a LAX-YVR- HNL (one way) pattern
If you wanted to go to YVR, you went via LAX
If you wanted to go to AKL, you went via HNL
It was soon superseded by a 762 weekly return from HNL

DavidByrne wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Birdiey wrote:

Hi, quick unrelated question, but is anyone aware of all the routes Air New Zealand's Boeing 747-200 fleet operated over the years?

We could add what we no, heaps of 2-3 stops to LAX.

AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE/CNS/PER
AKL-APW/NAN/RAR/PPT
AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX
AKL-HNL-LAX
AKL-HNL
AKL-NAN-LAX
AKL-LAX
AKL-LAX-LGW
AKL-LAX-LHR
AKL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-LAX-LGW
AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-NAN-NRT
AKL-NRT
AKL-NRT-CHC-AKL
AKL-KIX
AKL-KIX-CHC-AKL
AKL-HKG (Kaitak)
AKL-SIN
CHC-SYD/MEL/BNE
CHC-NAN-HNL-LAX
CHC-HNL-LAX

Probably a few others or I may have missed added some stops that didn’t happen.

Did NZ ever operate CHC-HNL-LAX, though? I don’t recall that one. And I thought that the route via NAN was actually CHC-AKL-NAN -HNL-LAX. Open to correction . . .

AviatorNZ wrote:

DavidByrne wrote:

Just booked my AKL-IVC flight for some time in late Oct - at the Grabaseat price of $59 couldn’t afford not to.

Wondering how long this flight will last though. At the moment there are 186 seats out of IVC each morning before 8.15. The addition of an A320 is an increase of about 90%. Hmm . . . challenging.

A lot of the Auckland traffic that was connecting via CHC and WLG will probably now move onto the direct flight.

Gasman wrote:

SelandiaBaru wrote:

ZKSUJ wrote:

Funny all this talk about the colours. I also prefer teal and everything is now black with NZ yet I notice alot of pilots, cabin crew and ground staff wearing yellow high vis vests inside the terminal. I noticed the 2 ladies (customer facing) at baggage services in the domestic terminal in bright yellow yesterday sitting at their computers... Do they think they are Freedom air

We're now not allowed to walk anywhere outside the terminal, even on designated walkways without our invincibility cloaks. Unless we have boarding pass to provide optimum protection and then it's fine. Thoughts are the new uniform will include higher visibility built in to solve the rigmarole of trying to achieve the opposing goals of workplace health & safety and the uniform policy.

Madness. The same thing is happening at aero clubs. These decisions are made on the flimsiest of evidence by some committee with a need to feel important.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Birdiey wrote:

Hi, quick unrelated question, but is anyone aware of all the routes Air New Zealand's Boeing 747-200 fleet operated over the years?

We could add what we no, heaps of 2-3 stops to LAX.

AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE/CNS/PER
AKL-APW/NAN/RAR/PPT
AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-HNL-LAX
AKL-RAR-PPT-LAX
AKL-HNL-LAX
AKL-HNL
AKL-NAN-LAX
AKL-LAX
AKL-LAX-LGW
AKL-LAX-LHR
AKL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-LAX-LGW
AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA
AKL-HNL-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA-LAX-HNL-AKL
AKL-NAN-NRT
AKL-NRT
AKL-NRT-CHC-AKL
AKL-KIX
AKL-KIX-CHC-AKL
AKL-HKG (Kaitak)
AKL-SIN
CHC-SYD/MEL/BNE
CHC-NAN-HNL-LAX
CHC-HNL-LAX

Probably a few others or I may have missed added some stops that didn’t happen.

TaniTaniwha wrote:

I was on a Flight back from LAX in 1988 that did LAX-HNL-NAN-AKL

Zkpilot wrote:

As for the turbulence flight, nothing unsafe about it per se. Aircraft are built to handle it provided it’s not bad close to the ground. Unusual to do the refunds but is a nice gesture and good PR certainly.

SelandiaBaru wrote:

ZKSUJ wrote:

Funny all this talk about the colours. I also prefer teal and everything is now black with NZ yet I notice alot of pilots, cabin crew and ground staff wearing yellow high vis vests inside the terminal. I noticed the 2 ladies (customer facing) at baggage services in the domestic terminal in bright yellow yesterday sitting at their computers... Do they think they are Freedom air

We're now not allowed to walk anywhere outside the terminal, even on designated walkways without our invincibility cloaks. Unless we have boarding pass to provide optimum protection and then it's fine. Thoughts are the new uniform will include higher visibility built in to solve the rigmarole of trying to achieve the opposing goals of workplace health & safety and the uniform policy.

planemanofnz wrote:

Does anyone know how NZ's EZE service is going? Argentina's economy is a bit of a disaster right now - last year, GDP declined 2% and the currency lost half its value (against the USD), while the IMF forecasts the economy will shrink again this year. Obviously in-bound tourism, and connections from Brazil are still in growth mode though.

Cheers,

C.

NZ6 wrote:

Zkpilot wrote:

As for the turbulence flight, nothing unsafe about it per se. Aircraft are built to handle it provided it’s not bad close to the ground. Unusual to do the refunds but is a nice gesture and good PR certainly.

Don't take this the wrong way but are you qualified to confirm this? i.e are you a qualified Pilot or similar or is this just a general perception based on the common knowledge that aircraft, in general, can structurally handle being thrown around in high winds?

I've heard a rumour that the extreme winds (to this extent) were unexpected and the flight would not have gone ahead if it was known, hence the refund and positive PR

Also are looking at "safety" from an aircraft limits perspective or customer safety from airline standards, for example, we all know airlines operate their aircraft well below their operational limits with regards to such things like climb rate, bank angles etc for customer comfort and safety. Just highlighting there are two different ways to look at this 'issue'