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JerseyFlyer
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Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:05 pm

Production likely to be impacted for several months. Tens of millions of Euros damage.

"Airbus, meanwhile, said it would take several months until parts produced in Augsburg could be finished and added to airplanes."

https://www.dw.com/en/airbus-jet-delays ... a-46890711

https://www.newsarticleinsiders.com/aug ... um-aerotec
 
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Revelation
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:30 pm

Wow, that's a shocker.

Please, no conspiracy theory posts without any proof/evidence.

The 2nd link says:

The Augsburg-based work provides, in particular, fuselage parts for civil and military aircraft at Airbus. Is a specialized factory to lightweight components made of carbon fiber.

That suggests A350 ramp up will be most impacted?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:37 pm

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article1 ... zeuge.html

According to this article, no serious delivery problems are expected for Airbus.

Premium Aerotec is also a big supplier for Boeing.
Last edited by mjoelnir on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bigjku
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:39 pm

Revelation wrote:
Wow, that's a shocker.

Please, no conspiracy theory posts without any proof/evidence.

The 2nd link says:

The Augsburg-based work provides, in particular, fuselage parts for civil and military aircraft at Airbus. Is a specialized factory to lightweight components made of carbon fiber.

That suggests A350 ramp up will be most impacted?


Is there an A350 ramp up? It seems like they have gotten close to 10 a month. Any indications they are actually going to move beyond that?

That being said I expect Airbus to adapt. Their producting is quite dispersed so that helps a bunch.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:42 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article186272476/Augsburg-Feuer-Raetsel-beim-wichtigen-Zulieferer-fuer-Airbus-Flugzeuge.html

According to this article, no serious delivery problems are expected for Airbus.

Premium Aerotec is also a big supplier for Boeing.

Google Translate gives:

While it was initially said the fire could affect Airbus production, a spokeswoman said the all-clear on Saturday night. According to initial findings of a crisis team "we currently do not assume that we as suppliers for our customer Airbus supply shortages will generate," said a company spokeswoman on WELT request.

So it seems to be saying don't assume delays will arise as opposed to saying we know no delays will arise.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:56 pm

Do we have details about how bad the fire actually was and what is manufactured in that location?
 
rlwynn
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:39 pm

It says the damage is over 10 Million€

The make rear fuselage and floors,

https://www.premium-aerotec.com/en/products/
Last edited by rlwynn on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
marcelh
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:42 pm

Revelation wrote:

Please, no conspiracy theory posts without any proof/evidence.


It won’t hurt Boeing......
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:59 pm

Revelation wrote:
Google Translate gives:

According to initial findings of a crisis team "we currently do not assume that we as suppliers for our customer Airbus supply shortages will generate," said a company spokeswoman on WELT request.


Wow, didn’t know that Yoda works for google translate...

PS.: sorry, couldn’t resist
 
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Channex757
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:10 pm

rlwynn wrote:
It says the damage is over 10 Million€

The make rear fuselage and floors,

https://www.premium-aerotec.com/en/products/

Ten million could be as little as one machine. Specialist tooling isn't cheap or off the shelf.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:42 pm

Revelation wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article186272476/Augsburg-Feuer-Raetsel-beim-wichtigen-Zulieferer-fuer-Airbus-Flugzeuge.html

According to this article, no serious delivery problems are expected for Airbus.

Premium Aerotec is also a big supplier for Boeing.

Google Translate gives:

While it was initially said the fire could affect Airbus production, a spokeswoman said the all-clear on Saturday night. According to initial findings of a crisis team "we currently do not assume that we as suppliers for our customer Airbus supply shortages will generate," said a company spokeswoman on WELT request.

So it seems to be saying don't assume delays will arise as opposed to saying we know no delays will arise.


So what exactly is the difference between, no serious delivery problems are expected and don't assume delays will arise.

I did not say: we know no delays will arise.

The fire was in an area that is used for surface treatment of metal parts. I assume, that it is possible to outsource that work.
 
sxf24
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:51 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article186272476/Augsburg-Feuer-Raetsel-beim-wichtigen-Zulieferer-fuer-Airbus-Flugzeuge.html

According to this article, no serious delivery problems are expected for Airbus.

Premium Aerotec is also a big supplier for Boeing.


The largest Boeing statement of work, the aft pressure bulkhead for the 787-8, was already moved to another supplier in Europe.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:35 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
So what exactly is the difference between, no serious delivery problems are expected and don't assume delays will arise.

Don't assume delays will arise allows for the possibility that serious possibilities may arise. It's a classic press release tactic. If they wanted to say "no serious delivery problems are expected" they would have just said that.

mjoelnir wrote:
The fire was in an area that is used for surface treatment of metal parts. I assume, that it is possible to outsource that work.

The first link in the thread starter said:

According to media reports, the fire broke out in an surface treatment area of the factory in Augsburg, 30 kilometers (19 miles) northwest of Munich.

No one was in the building when the fire broke out; the cause of the blaze is still unknown.

It doesn't say it was only in that area.

TFA also says:

Airbus, meanwhile, said it would take several months until parts produced in Augsburg could be finished and added to airplanes.

Sorry but the glass may be half empty instead of half full.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:57 pm

Revelation wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
So what exactly is the difference between, no serious delivery problems are expected and don't assume delays will arise.

Don't assume delays will arise allows for the possibility that serious possibilities may arise. It's a classic press release tactic. If they wanted to say "no serious delivery problems are expected" they would have just said that.

mjoelnir wrote:
The fire was in an area that is used for surface treatment of metal parts. I assume, that it is possible to outsource that work.

The first link in the thread starter said:

According to media reports, the fire broke out in an surface treatment area of the factory in Augsburg, 30 kilometers (19 miles) northwest of Munich.

No one was in the building when the fire broke out; the cause of the blaze is still unknown.

It doesn't say it was only in that area.

TFA also says:

Airbus, meanwhile, said it would take several months until parts produced in Augsburg could be finished and added to airplanes.

Sorry but the glass may be half empty instead of half full.


The article I provided is in German. I believe my translation is better than google.

The article clearly states were the fire was:

Nach Angaben einer Premium-Aerotec-Sprecherin gab es in der Nacht von Donnerstag auf Freitag einen Brand im Bereich Oberflächenbearbeitung/Galvanik, also im Metallbereich und nicht bei den Rumpfbauteilen aus Faserverbundmaterial.

translated: According to a spokeswoman at Premium Aerotec was a fire from Thursday to Friday night in the area surface treatment / galvanic, so in the metal sector and not at the fuselage part sector from fiber composite material.

I have to cut down your hope for serious trouble at Airbus.

In regards to Boeing, Premium Aerotec produces parts for the 737.
 
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caoimhin
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:29 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Revelation wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
So what exactly is the difference between, no serious delivery problems are expected and don't assume delays will arise.

Don't assume delays will arise allows for the possibility that serious possibilities may arise. It's a classic press release tactic. If they wanted to say "no serious delivery problems are expected" they would have just said that.

mjoelnir wrote:
The fire was in an area that is used for surface treatment of metal parts. I assume, that it is possible to outsource that work.

The first link in the thread starter said:

According to media reports, the fire broke out in an surface treatment area of the factory in Augsburg, 30 kilometers (19 miles) northwest of Munich.

No one was in the building when the fire broke out; the cause of the blaze is still unknown.

It doesn't say it was only in that area.

TFA also says:

Airbus, meanwhile, said it would take several months until parts produced in Augsburg could be finished and added to airplanes.

Sorry but the glass may be half empty instead of half full.


The article I provided is in German. I believe my translation is better than google.

The article clearly states were the fire was:

Nach Angaben einer Premium-Aerotec-Sprecherin gab es in der Nacht von Donnerstag auf Freitag einen Brand im Bereich Oberflächenbearbeitung/Galvanik, also im Metallbereich und nicht bei den Rumpfbauteilen aus Faserverbundmaterial.

translated: According to a spokeswoman at Premium Aerotec was a fire from Thursday to Friday night in the area surface treatment / galvanic, so in the metal sector and not at the fuselage part sector from fiber composite material.

I have to cut down your hope for serious trouble at Airbus.

In regards to Boeing, Premium Aerotec produces parts for the 737.


Why is it so important for you that this incident affect Boeing?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:34 pm

caoimhin wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Don't assume delays will arise allows for the possibility that serious possibilities may arise. It's a classic press release tactic. If they wanted to say "no serious delivery problems are expected" they would have just said that.


The first link in the thread starter said:


It doesn't say it was only in that area.

TFA also says:


Sorry but the glass may be half empty instead of half full.


The article I provided is in German. I believe my translation is better than google.

The article clearly states were the fire was:

Nach Angaben einer Premium-Aerotec-Sprecherin gab es in der Nacht von Donnerstag auf Freitag einen Brand im Bereich Oberflächenbearbeitung/Galvanik, also im Metallbereich und nicht bei den Rumpfbauteilen aus Faserverbundmaterial.

translated: According to a spokeswoman at Premium Aerotec was a fire from Thursday to Friday night in the area surface treatment / galvanic, so in the metal sector and not at the fuselage part sector from fiber composite material.

I have to cut down your hope for serious trouble at Airbus.

In regards to Boeing, Premium Aerotec produces parts for the 737.


Why is it so important for you that this incident affect Boeing?


Well, not to mention that if we are talking about 737ng then there's not a very big backlog left and if it's 737max the engines are the bottleneck and disruptions to the fuselage supply chain wouldn't hurt anymore than the existing engine shortage.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:37 pm

Can we keep this thread on topic please, things are not getting better for Airbus no matter which other manufacturer will be affected by this.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:46 pm

I don’t think we know what the scope of the damage and impact is yet.

The aviation industry supplier Premium Aerotec is the result of a fire, a loss of at least tens of millions of euros. The fire broke out, according to the Airbus, a subsidiary of so far unknown cause in the field of surface processing. The Augsburg-based work provides, in particular, fuselage parts for civil and military aircraft at Airbus. Is a specialized factory to lightweight components made of carbon fiber.

The fire have an impact on the production at the Augsburg plant, said a Aerotec spokeswoman. It is virtually all Airbus models were affected. Concrete statements can be made about delays in delivery could not be made. Airbus announced in Toulouse, it takes several months before the Augsburg-produced parts are processed further and, ultimately, airplanes were built. Together we will find solutions.


https://www.newsarticleinsiders.com/aug ... um-aerotec

Supply chain issues may have a downstream affect. It will take time for final assembly and spare parts inventory to be affected. I’m sure contingency plans will be put in to place to have work done elsewhere and repair the facility. If actual inventory was damaged, there likely will be a downstream impact, but whether it is noticeable is hard to predict. Production lines continue even when there are parts shortages. It adds rework, but it may or may not affect any deliveries.

I think blog posts/articles saying that airplane deliveries are likely to be delayed are premature: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-factory-fire/
A major fire at an Airbus subsidiary factory overnight on Friday has caused millions of euros worth of damage and could impact on the plane maker’s ability to hit targets in aircraft delivery.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:51 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I don’t think we know what the scope of the damage and impact is yet.

The aviation industry supplier Premium Aerotec is the result of a fire, a loss of at least tens of millions of euros. The fire broke out, according to the Airbus, a subsidiary of so far unknown cause in the field of surface processing. The Augsburg-based work provides, in particular, fuselage parts for civil and military aircraft at Airbus. Is a specialized factory to lightweight components made of carbon fiber.

The fire have an impact on the production at the Augsburg plant, said a Aerotec spokeswoman. It is virtually all Airbus models were affected. Concrete statements can be made about delays in delivery could not be made. Airbus announced in Toulouse, it takes several months before the Augsburg-produced parts are processed further and, ultimately, airplanes were built. Together we will find solutions.


https://www.newsarticleinsiders.com/aug ... um-aerotec

Supply chain issues may have a downstream affect. It will take time for final assembly and spare parts inventory to be affected. I’m sure contingency plans will be put in to place to have work done elsewhere and repair the facility. If actual inventory was damaged, there likely will be a downstream impact, but whether it is noticeable is hard to predict. Production lines continue even when there are parts shortages. It adds rework, but it may or may not affect any deliveries.

I think blog posts/articles saying that airplane deliveries are likely to be delayed are premature: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-factory-fire/

A major fire at an Airbus subsidiary factory overnight on Friday has caused millions of euros worth of damage and could impact on the plane maker’s ability to hit targets in aircraft delivery.


The article in German quoted above is from yesterday, so we can expect it is more up to date compared to the one you are quoting from which is two days old.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:27 pm

caoimhin wrote:
Why is it so important for you that this incident affect Boeing?

The attacks on others for being partisans is done in a way that makes it clear that the attacker himself is a partisan, yet that removes the basis for complaining about partisanship, which says a lot about the attacker.

For the record, I do not "hope for serious trouble at Airbus", but of course there's no way for me to convince certain people of that, and that's why forum rules say that such personal attacks are supposed to be deleted.
 
Bradin
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:29 pm

As I read https://samchui.com/2018/12/30/major-fi ... CpPKYyIaf0, I understand it as “we are barely beginning the investigation and cause of the fire. As soon as the investigation can permit insurance adjusters and other entities to figure out the costs, timelines to repair, and figure out what was damaged or destroyed in the fire or from fighting the fire, they will have a better idea on timelines towards recovery and resuming normal operations.”
 
godsbeloved
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:10 pm

This is what Airbus has said about the subject...

"A fire at Airbus’s Premium Aerotec subsidiary in Augsburg, Germany, isn’t expected to have any impact on jetliner deliveries. Airbus is assessing the situation and will work with the aerostructures manufacturer on mitigation measures if necessary, Schaffrath said."

"The blaze at Premium Aerotec damaged machinery worth at least 10 million euros ($11.4 million) and will disrupt the unit’s own production, according to spokeswoman Barbara Sagel. Options for mitigation include switching some output to other sites at the unit, according to Airbus. Those comprise four other plants in Germany and one in Romania."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-28/airbus-pulling-out-all-stops-to-reach-800-plane-delivery-target
 
mham001
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:32 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Well, not to mention that if we are talking about 737ng then there's not a very big backlog left and if it's 737max the engines are the bottleneck and disruptions to the fuselage supply chain wouldn't hurt anymore than the existing engine shortage.


The 737 engine issues are currently not having a significant impact on production. It is quite possible a missing fuselage part could. Do you know otherwise?
 
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kanban
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:36 pm

suggest we meet at Otti's Old B17 Bar across the street from the plant and solve the medias vagueness with a beer or two
 
rlwynn
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:52 pm

Across the street is where they made planes to shoot down the B17.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Major fire at Airbus fuselage component plant

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:27 pm

Channex757 wrote:
rlwynn wrote:
It says the damage is over 10 Million€

The make rear fuselage and floors,

https://www.premium-aerotec.com/en/products/

Ten million could be as little as one machine. Specialist tooling isn't cheap or off the shelf.

It could be 20% of one machine. The high spool friction welders (unlikely), large CFRP weaving, and 3D printing (unlikely) can cost $50 million+. Remember the good old days when a million dollar forge was a big deal?

This sounds solvable. Lots of overtime and some workers in hotels at company expense.

I'm glad no one was hurt.

Lightsaber

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