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drjlm
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Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:35 pm

I flew into Paris CDG last week and was transferring for an onward flight from ORY.

I was thinking how cool it would be if two airports within a metropolitan area had an interconnected baggage handling system or were at least directly connected by a dedicated light rail service for passengers such that bags could be checked through to destination in the same manner as when they travel through a transfer airport.

Does anything of this nature exist anywhere in the world?

I'm not sure at what speed bags move in handling systems (although in the videos on YouTube, it looks pretty significant), but I can imagine that the distances they have to travel when being moved between terminals within a large airport, such as JFK, could be quite significant. Some major transport hubs (JFK and LaGuardia) are located within 10 miles of one another and presumably the baggage tagging system is standardized.

Is this a crazy idea or something that could conceivably be achieved with the right infrastructure?
 
klakzky123
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:35 pm

That's a good way to ruin an airline's margins on bag fees and it would seemingly add a lot of unnecessary liability for the airlines given the need to transport bags rather quickly between airports in order to enable proper connections.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:52 pm

I would think that if a city was at the point where they needed to rely on connecting between two airports (unlike a situation like NYC where all 3 serve different purposes) that it may be time to look at building a new airport outside the city that can adequately handle the capacity needed.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:03 pm

The OP really ought to look at the number of inter-airport transfers LGA-JFK and CDG-ORY. He also ought to recognize that LGA and JFK don't even have DIRECT TRAINS FOR PEOPLE TO MANHATTAN. There's no way this is economically feasible, at least for the NYC and PAR airports.
 
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seat55a
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:33 pm

Is there even any interlining within CDG between T1 and the T2 complex?

In the early 2000s my mom several times transfered between US and AF at CDG and never understood why her bags didn't make it although she had seen them in Paris. As far as I can tell the US agents at her origin didn't realize they couldn't tag them through.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:07 pm

In the 90s, BA used to offer through tagging for connections from LHR-LGW, the bag tags had to be hand written, and the connecting segment had the 'flight number' VAN.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The OP really ought to look at the number of inter-airport transfers LGA-JFK and CDG-ORY. He also ought to recognize that LGA and JFK don't even have DIRECT TRAINS FOR PEOPLE TO MANHATTAN. There's no way this is economically feasible, at least for the NYC and PAR airports.


New York is a really different case than Paris.

In Paris, both Charles de Gaulle and Orly are Air France hubs. There are exceptions, but mostly Charles de Gaulle is for international flights and Orly is for domestic flights. There are several destinations that are only served from Charles de Gaulle and several other destinations that are only served from Orly.

Let's say a passenger wants to go from Figari to Los Angeles. Figari is only served from Orly and Los Angeles only from Charles de Gaulle. Air France does offer this option with a change of airports in Paris. How you get from one airport to the other is up to you and this goes for your luggage as well. You have to retrieve it at Orly and check-in again at Charles de Gaulle.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:06 pm

The only remotely close thing I can think of is the former Check-in facility in Madrid centre when the subway was extended to the airport. There was a check in area in the “public area” of the subway station where you could check in as normal. Bags were then loaded on the same subway trains (different compartment) used by the passengers. When T4 opened at MAD and the subway wasn’t extended to the terminal, IB ceased to use the facility and was soon closed claiming high costs for the low number of passengers using it.
 
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seat55a
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:34 pm

City baggage check-in certainly existed in various cities. There was the East Side Airlines Terminal in NYC, from 1954 to some time in the 70s.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:20 pm

Heathwick was a high-speed rail link proposal between LHR and LGW. The response was underwhelming with little support from the major airlines.
 
Naincompetent
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:07 am

Interestingly, if you buy a combined train/plan ticket with AF, you will check in your bags at the train station's AF counter, get into your seat on the train, then receive your bag at yous final destination.
For example, if you buy a SXB-CDG-JFK, you will check in your bags in Strasbourg, get on the train to CDG, transfer to your plane (security, passports, ...) and collect your checked-in bags only at destination.
For the return however you have to get your bags at CDG for customs issues.
 
Lofty
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:46 am

Heathrow and Gatwick used to have station check-in where the bags used to go on the Heathrow / Gatwick Express, the great thing was you could check-in anytime on the day of departure, so could check-in and spend the day in London without your bags. The "BA Van" between Heathrow and Gatwick was bonded so international bags could be through checked. Like most things all the above become expensive to run and where stopped.

Maybe one day we will see the rail link to Staines which would then allow Heathrow to Gatwick direct rail link and with BA's operation at Gatwick increasing we may see bag transfers between them.

I did work on a project a number of years ago about connecting Heathrow with Paris using an extension to Eurostar and check-in would be carried out on board the train.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:12 am

Slightly OT, when I worked for TK it made for some awkward conversations and puzzled looks when i would tell people that theyd fly into IST and make their connection on another continent (SAW).

So Istanbul with IST/SAW is in the same category with Paris for having 2 airports with hubs for the same airline.
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9w748capt
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:46 pm

Aisak wrote:
The only remotely close thing I can think of is the former Check-in facility in Madrid centre when the subway was extended to the airport. There was a check in area in the “public area” of the subway station where you could check in as normal. Bags were then loaded on the same subway trains (different compartment) used by the passengers. When T4 opened at MAD and the subway wasn’t extended to the terminal, IB ceased to use the facility and was soon closed claiming high costs for the low number of passengers using it.


Uh... Hong Kong?
 
drjlm
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The OP really ought to look at the number of inter-airport transfers LGA-JFK and CDG-ORY. He also ought to recognize that LGA and JFK don't even have DIRECT TRAINS FOR PEOPLE TO MANHATTAN. There's no way this is economically feasible, at least for the NYC and PAR airports.


Yes, I assumed this was wildly unfeasible, to be honest, but was still interested to know whether a project of this nature had ever been attempted anywhere in the world.

I mean, I wonder if you had two airports just a few miles apart and you somehow had the budget to tunnel the baggage under whatever lay behind them whether the two baggage handling systems could interconnect.
 
drjlm
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:07 pm

Bhoy wrote:
In the 90s, BA used to offer through tagging for connections from LHR-LGW, the bag tags had to be hand written, and the connecting segment had the 'flight number' VAN.


Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was looking to hear.

Do you have any idea what the logistics were?

Did BA rush the bags between the airports by road / train in order to make the connections (I'm guessing VAN is a hint at the mode of transport used!)?
 
drjlm
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:10 pm

Aisak wrote:
The only remotely close thing I can think of is the former Check-in facility in Madrid centre when the subway was extended to the airport. There was a check in area in the “public area” of the subway station where you could check in as normal. Bags were then loaded on the same subway trains (different compartment) used by the passengers. When T4 opened at MAD and the subway wasn’t extended to the terminal, IB ceased to use the facility and was soon closed claiming high costs for the low number of passengers using it.


Interesting!

I presume (for security reasons) that there would have to be careful regulation around what kind of staff had access to the luggage compartment of the subway while it was in transit.

I believe the London Underground also reaches out to LHR but such an idea as you describe has never been attempted AFAIK.
 
kimshep
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:54 am

In years to come it will be interesting to see how cost-effective and scalable Elon Musk's 'Hyperloop' system will become. Naturally, luggage transfer would be a fascinating case study in moving objects quickly over comparatively short distances, with minimum human intervention. First step could be inter-terminal within the same airport, next step being between two separate airports within the same city.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:30 am

Aisak wrote:
The only remotely close thing I can think of is the former Check-in facility in Madrid centre when the subway was extended to the airport. There was a check in area in the “public area” of the subway station where you could check in as normal. Bags were then loaded on the same subway trains (different compartment) used by the passengers. When T4 opened at MAD and the subway wasn’t extended to the terminal, IB ceased to use the facility and was soon closed claiming high costs for the low number of passengers using it.

This still exists in Vienna, albeit rather than a Subway, it's a dedicated nonstop Express Train. https://www.cityairporttrain.com/en/home#city-check-in
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:36 am

Not exactly an interconnected baggage system.
But MH used to have a 'terminal' in SIN where you checked in your luggage and then proceeded to catch a 'MH bus' to JHB (Senai airport). Was pretty useful. At the causeway-(border between Singapore and Malaysia) passengers had to point out our luggage to custom staff who could choose to inspect the luggage, but they never inspected mine. To be fair, they focused on those that looked liked labourers from India or Indonesia and not expats or Malaysians/Singaporeans.
That service was very popular by those in the petroleum industry, who used it for their travel to Sarawak or KB in Brunei. Back then there were no flights to MYY/BTU etc from SIN but JHB had morning non-stops that saved a fair bit of time. I did that trip so often that I knew the SIN check in agents by their first name. MH really had a quality organisation where service was top notch, back then.

I assume that the MH terminal in SIN got canned when the lowcosts became prevalent in Asean.
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Aesma
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:30 am

There is no direct rail link between the two Paris airport and no talk of building one. A better rail link to CDG is being built, CDG Express, amid some controversy.

If you have lots of luggage/want a simple experience, Air France offers LE BUS DIRECT Paris Aéroport (formerly CARS AIR FRANCE), there is a direct line between the airports for a reasonable fee and unlimited luggage.

Orly is the airport closest to its capacity limit so there is no incentive to use it to relieve CDG, on the contrary.
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yeginleduc
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:59 am

HKG kinda works to this idea. The In-City Check In bags travel on the last car of the Airport Express trains to the airport to be sorted.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Airports with interconnected baggage systems?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:09 am

The amount of baggage that does a transfer like this is probably pretty low each day that couldn't go via a single airport.

As stated there is not even passengers trains between most airports within a city, so a dedicated baggage train makes zero sense. Most connections just pass thru airports that don't require a transfer like united EWR hub, FRA, AMS, LHR etc etc. If people choose to do an airport transfer it should be on a last choice only basis, there are so many places that can do it within the same airport.

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