fusionliner
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:03 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:47 am

airlinebuilder wrote:
PAL for the time being is too conservative from fleet expansion to network expansion - for some reason, they need to poke the executive who are seated at the board for the convenience more than what is needed to be done. Objectively opportunities abound for PAL but ..... they opt to miss the ride


Hard to be in aggressive expansion mode when you have a hub in Manila that can barely support its existing operations. Yes, they could order a bunch of planes and fly them long haul from CEB or CRK, but MNL is still the most cost effective, risk-averse option. Come 2020-2022 when New Clark Airport and partial operability of the NSCR/Airport Express from Manila goes online, they might be more aggressive.

If Vivienne Tan becomes the new President/COO from her OIC title, I can see how she might have a more vibrant and new approach to the overall direction of the airline especially reading more about her education (double major in Math & Comp Sci, with a post grad certificate in Fashion & Merchandising) and her passion for entrepreneurship, fashion and ambition to build a business more successful than my father’s. Her data driven skill sets and consumer facing approach, might be just what the doctor ordered. But who knows

https://peopleasia.ph/?p=15048
https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/27831/vivienne-tan-%E2%80%98i-always-look-forward%E2%80%99/ (old interview from 2011)
 
Bobby27ph
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:39 pm

RE: Cebu Pacific A321XLR

They do need them for Australia flights, as they tend to fill their new planes with seats.

If you pack an A321LR with 240 seats, it coupd only do Sydney-Bali (roughly). It can’t even reach Manila.

That’s why even Aussie carriers are ordering the XLR.

PAL being cautious on ordering very specific types is good for their balance sheet. Eg of they can fly non-ULR version of the A350 to JFK, they won’t order for the ULR then.

XLR would be useful (for PAL) if it is able to reach Auckland, and if pax load is always below 200 (average).

And as mentioned, if they intend to pack A321neo with 240 pax on long flights, then XLR is useful!

Cebu Pacific did some research before ordering them
PFSG Member

Avsim.net keyword: Bobby Santos
 
Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:51 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/flyroyalair/photos/pcb.418224618908326/418224458908342
Apparently Royal Air has some kind of partnership with AirAsia. Does anyone know the details of this?


AirAsia operates some of Royal Air's flights using Z2 metal but under the Royal Air callsign.
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Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:53 am

Should they open SGL, I wonder how they will design the SID/STARs to prevent conflict with NAIA's traffic flow. I'm picturing turns toward Manila Bay on departure before being vectored to the first waypoint.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:59 pm

The XLR aren't useful for PAL at all,because noone wants to fly 9h in a single aisle narrowbody.they'll only loose connecting Passengers that way.its not comfortable at all! We have seen it on syd, how people have responded to the A321neo flying that distance.now they are finally changing back again to the roomier A330.PAL should just wait for the 797 or order the b787-8 instead, if theres a need.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:59 pm

This is the biggest joke ever! They better stay in london!

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:45 pm

PR77W wrote:
I'm not against PAL ordering the A338 like others said. if it will fit in there fleet then they will order it.

The CAPA article above gives the best justification yet of the A338's suitability for PR's fleet -- provides a right-priced, right-sized solution to PR's over-capacity dilemma...which could be had at the right time when their two-class CEOs come off lease...very handy should market conditions improve sufficiently for them to revisit their network plans.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-AKL/CD ... /YVR&DU=nm

As it is, 5J could beat them to the punch.....

Quote:
"While the A330-900neo is not capable of operating nonstop from Manila to the US west coast in Cebu Pacific's 460-seat configuration the airline has the flexibility to convert to the A330-800neo, which would be able to operate to the US west cost in high density all economy configuration without payload restrictions."


Until Airbus' difficulty in cutting A350 production costs to be more competitive with the 789 is solved, PR's over-capacity problem stays. And while the A35K remains attractive for their bread and butter LAX and SFO routes, the touted 10-abreast 'Y' seating is very off-putting and inconsistent with their A359's (or indeed their refurbed regional A330's) products. :crowded:

Quote:
"PAL has been considering retrofitting its 777-300ERs with lie-flat business seats and premium economy. However, so far the airline has decided against a retrofit project due to the high cost. Due to the high costs of retrofits PAL is better off returning the 777-300ERs and replacing them with A350s (or 777Xs) that could feature the same premium products as its six existing A350s."



This NAIA people mover scheme on SkyscraperCity seems feasible...except it will require the LRT1 extension to backtrack to T1 so the former could connect to it.....

posted by: @auticzon
Image
https://assets.rappler.com/612F469A6EA8 ... 58482E.jpg

Is the Super Consortium still building that big terminal at the Nayong Pilipino area :?:


On a different note, the NMIA in Bulakan thread disappeared from that forum...did SMC not appreciate the unflattering comments there about its project :confused: :spin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:17 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
This is the biggest joke ever! They better stay in london!

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183


While in this case they case they make might be credible since the words came from Bautista himself, CAPA has had a mixed record before. Generally, CAPA seems to be very positive about LCCs and not so much with FSCs. They were even bullish before on airlines such as Fastjet in Africa, despite Fastjet's struggles (and now they barely even exist anymore).
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:21 am

Devilfish wrote:
PR77W wrote:
I'm not against PAL ordering the A338 like others said. if it will fit in there fleet then they will order it.

The CAPA article above gives the best justification yet of the A338's suitability for PR's fleet -- provides a right-priced, right-sized solution to PR's over-capacity dilemma...which could be had at the right time when their two-class CEOs come off lease...very handy should market conditions improve sufficiently for them to revisit their network plans.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-AKL/CD ... /YVR&DU=nm

As it is, 5J could beat them to the punch.....

Quote:
"While the A330-900neo is not capable of operating nonstop from Manila to the US west coast in Cebu Pacific's 460-seat configuration the airline has the flexibility to convert to the A330-800neo, which would be able to operate to the US west cost in high density all economy configuration without payload restrictions."


Until Airbus' difficulty in cutting A350 production costs to be more competitive with the 789 is solved, PR's over-capacity problem stays. And while the A35K remains attractive for their bread and butter LAX and SFO routes, the touted 10-abreast 'Y' seating is very off-putting and inconsistent with their A359's (or indeed their refurbed regional A330's) products. :crowded:

Quote:
"PAL has been considering retrofitting its 777-300ERs with lie-flat business seats and premium economy. However, so far the airline has decided against a retrofit project due to the high cost. Due to the high costs of retrofits PAL is better off returning the 777-300ERs and replacing them with A350s (or 777Xs) that could feature the same premium products as its six existing A350s."



This NAIA people mover scheme on SkyscraperCity seems feasible...except it will require the LRT1 extension to backtrack to T1 so the former could connect to it.....

posted by: @auticzon
Image
https://assets.rappler.com/612F469A6EA8 ... 58482E.jpg

Is the Super Consortium still building that big terminal at the Nayong Pilipino area :?:


On a different note, the NMIA in Bulakan thread disappeared from that forum...did SMC not appreciate the unflattering comments there about its project :confused: :spin:


Remember that so far only two or three airlines have actually ordered the A330-800 so I really doubt PAL will order them anytime soon, if ever. If you really really really really want that type to succeed (since you seem to be obsessed with it), you better pray that CebPac converts part of their A330-900 order at some point as it's pretty much your best shot.
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:47 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
This is the biggest joke ever! They better stay in london!

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183


CAPA has never been optimistic about PAL. But they love Cebu Pacific.
 
PR77W
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:05 pm

LurveBus wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
This is the biggest joke ever! They better stay in london!

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183


CAPA has never been optimistic about PAL. But they love Cebu Pacific.


I've watch a video on youtube about WOW Air and mentioned that CAPA awarded them airlines of the year (2018), just as the airline was falling apart and completely collapsed just this year!

Link to the video:
https://youtu.be/cAVCVC0t4SU
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:07 pm

LurveBus wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
This is the biggest joke ever! They better stay in london!

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183


CAPA has never been optimistic about PAL. But they love Cebu Pacific.


The impression I have is that they tend to go negative on full-service carriers (regardless of their financial performance) and generally positive on LCCs, even the ones that lost money. The Fastjet example I gave above is a prime example, but there are other examples. They also keep saying that the Philippine market is price sensitive, which might not be wholly accurate since PR's domestic and regional operations (where 5J is their primary competition) are actually profitable, meaning they seem to underestimate premium demand in the Philippines.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:08 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Remember that so far only two or three airlines have actually ordered the A330-800 so I really doubt PAL will order them anytime soon, if ever. If you really really really really want that type to succeed (since you seem to be obsessed with it), you better pray that CebPac converts part of their A330-900 order at some point as it's pretty much your best shot.

I don't seem to have a lot of pull upstairs. :devil: You are much too hung-up on the A338 for someone who calls himself an avgeek. :geek: Does my liking it trigger something in you :confused: Chill, man. 8-)


LurveBus wrote:
CAPA has never been optimistic about PAL. But they love Cebu Pacific.

There have been some objective CAPA analyses before on PR and Philippine aviation in general...if we only curb our appetite for platitudes to see. Balance is the key.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:18 pm

One thing to remember about the CAPA piece: their source is Mr. Bautista, who has now retired. We don’t really know the direction of new management.

I do know that PAL wanted a partnership with AF. And that they even got CDG slots. They were ready to launch CDG and FCO this year... then they got cold feet. 2019 was supposed to be another year of expansion, and it all stopped. Even DEL was scrapped. Perhaps the new management has something to do with it?
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:26 pm

They need a stronger presence in british tv.they must push themselves to take peoples attention.
They'll lose more by opening a route to paris.the aviation hub of europe is london.people will be upset again.i hope they will not open new routes to europe, just to stay in london.
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:38 pm

SleeplessInZh wrote:
They need a stronger presence in british tv.they must push themselves to take peoples attention.
They'll lose more by opening a route to paris.the aviation hub of europe is london.people will be upset again.i hope they will not open new routes to europe, just to stay in london.


Paris is in the schengen zone and has rail connections to large population centres. The schengen part is very important to Pinoys with visa issues; it allows them to self-connect within the schengen zone. A Filipino worker based in Nice or even Barcelona can take a train or a budget flight to Paris without visa issues. They can’t do that in LHR without a visa. In any case, LHR is a congested hub with no airline willing to partner with PAL, not to mention the backtracking. And this is even before Brexit.

The hub in choice in Europe for PAL is actually neither LHR nor CDG. It’s AMS. There’s a reason why KLM still flies to Manila. AMS is accessible to the Pinoys in continental Europe, and is especially accessible to the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp for the numerous Filipino seafarers. But alas, AMS has no available slots whatsoever as they’re artificially constrained.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:48 pm

You are right lurvebus.i forgot that stupid schengen.
But i want to say that london is their biggest market.
About amsterdam, thats one logical point.
So a partnership, with air france and the 'always helping hand' of klm, will lead them to skyteam if they'll find an european partner in one of these airlines.so sad, i dont like skyteam with their strange members...
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:23 pm

LurveBus wrote:
I do know that PAL wanted a partnership with AF. And that they even got CDG slots. They were ready to launch CDG and FCO this year... then they got cold feet. 2019 was supposed to be another year of expansion, and it all stopped. Even DEL was scrapped. Perhaps the new management has something to do with it?

I tend to view the 'retreat' as ANA having more 'influence' on the matter than what its single board seat at PAL would suggest. Talking of slots, I understand PR got their LHR ones for a not inconsiderable sum. Those are very valuable assets that other airlines may want. I wonder if PR would lease them out (if possible) or simply sell the rights :?:

And speaking of their new management...anecdotal trivia in SkyscraperCity had the new OIC or another Tan daughter as a pilot. Should be a plus in steering PAL's new course. :airplane:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
FT15
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:24 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
They also keep saying that the Philippine market is price sensitive, which might not be wholly accurate since PR's domestic and regional operations (where 5J is their primary competition) are actually profitable, meaning they seem to underestimate premium demand in the Philippines.


Isn't this the general sentiment about the Philippines here on A.net as well? When other A.netters (non-Filipinos) talk about the Philippine market, it's as if they think no sane airline should ever fly to the Philippines anymore because they wouldn't make any money here at all due to "low yields" or
"low premium demand". Going by their logic, CX (with seven or eight daily flights) and SQ (with four daily flights) are insane, then.

A lot of these sentiments are also due to outdated knowledge or pre-conceived notions about the country, too.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:26 am

Klm and Philippine Aviation, especially PAL has shared a long history together.one of KLMs longest routes
was and is manila.it was KLMs 'pride',not to give up that manila route. so i'm 50/50 about that 'seafarers' story after my research.
And YES Speaking about HISTORY, because this is also an important thing to mention about Airline Routes...
Its a very important factor for Airlines...
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:39 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
You are right lurvebus.i forgot that stupid schengen.
But i want to say that london is their biggest market.
About amsterdam, thats one logical point.
So a partnership, with air france and the 'always helping hand' of klm, will lead them to skyteam if they'll find an european partner in one of these airlines.so sad, i dont like skyteam with their strange members...


Just because they partner with certain airlines doesn't automatically guarantee they will join "said" alliance. Look at Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia for example.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:48 am

I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago,his name was diego and has now a filipina girlfriend:) :) good for him.he told me,they will not have flights to manila in near future, with their new B777,because they rank manila as a low yield
market.bangkok was just profitable enough to deploy the B777s.
This is from the Swiss side,i can share to FT15.and this not a joke.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:02 am

SCFlyer wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
You are right lurvebus.i forgot that stupid schengen.
But i want to say that london is their biggest market.
About amsterdam, thats one logical point.
So a partnership, with air france and the 'always helping hand' of klm, will lead them to skyteam if they'll find an european partner in one of these airlines.so sad, i dont like skyteam with their strange members...


Just because they partner with certain airlines doesn't automatically guarantee they will join "said" alliance. Look at Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia for example.


I don't look to Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia.all i can say is that, they both have extremely beautiful cabins though airline reviews.respect.thank you for the education,yep... still guessing what alliance, they'll belong to, they make a secret of ANYTHING. It became so ridiculous!transperency is definetly not PAL.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:36 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago,his name was diego and has now a filipina girlfriend:) :) good for him.he told me,they will not have flights to manila in near future, with their new B777,because they rank manila as a low yield
market.bangkok was just profitable enough to deploy the B777s.
This is from the Swiss side,i can share to FT15.and this not a joke.


Southeast Asia is generally a low-yielding market for European carriers due to intense competition, and only Singapore and Thailand really work as markets. Malaysia and Vietnam probably mainly have their flights more due to prestige if anything, same for PR and GA.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:12 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago,his name was diego and has now a filipina girlfriend:) :) good for him.he told me,they will not have flights to manila in near future, with their new B777,because they rank manila as a low yield
market.bangkok was just profitable enough to deploy the B777s.
This is from the Swiss side,i can share to FT15.and this not a joke.


Southeast Asia is generally a low-yielding market for European carriers due to intense competition, and only Singapore and Thailand really work as markets. Malaysia and Vietnam probably mainly have their flights more due to prestige if anything, same for PR and GA.


BKK and Thailand in general are low yielding markets with lesser premium demand, partly the reason why the ULR flights to USA ports failed. SIN and HKG work because they have high O&D and more premium demand to subsidise the "low yielding" VFR customers.

If there was an aircraft suited for a Low Cost Carrier (LCC) that can fly LR at "full payload" which is all economy or mostly economy with a small premium cabin for a Thailand based airline, perhaps it may work. However, a long-haul aircraft suited for a LCC is a very very long while (if ever) off.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:18 am

SCFlyer wrote:
BKK and Thailand in general are low yielding markets with lesser premium demand, partly the reason why the ULR flights to USA ports failed.

Strange then that PR's North America services still survive despite the Philippines being said to be a low yielding market, perhaps even moreso than Thailand. I know the diaspora and O&D, but still. Meanwhile VN is only about to start non-stops to the US; sure their long time under Cat 2 was a factor, but even before that they didn't have non-stops to the US unlike PR.
Last edited by filipinoavgeek on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
SkyHigher
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:19 am

Devilfish wrote:
And speaking of their new management...anecdotal trivia in SkyscraperCity had the new OIC or another Tan daughter as a pilot. Should be a plus in steering PAL's new course. :airplane:


It's the other daughter, obviously not Vivienne who is reportedly a PAL pilot. So I think, it may not be an advantage on the post-JJB era of PAL to have a pilot daughter on one of LT's children.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 am

[email protected] filipinoAvGeek
 
Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:00 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
BKK and Thailand in general are low yielding markets with lesser premium demand, partly the reason why the ULR flights to USA ports failed.

Strange then that PR's North America services still survive despite the Philippines being said to be a low yielding market, perhaps even moreso than Thailand. I know the diaspora and O&D, but still. Meanwhile VN is only about to start non-stops to the US; sure their long time under Cat 2 was a factor, but even before that they didn't have non-stops to the US unlike PR.


There's probably the cargo factor as well, demonstrated by the tech stops in GUM during Christmas :P

filipinoavgeek wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago,his name was diego and has now a filipina girlfriend:) :) good for him.he told me,they will not have flights to manila in near future, with their new B777,because they rank manila as a low yield
market.bangkok was just profitable enough to deploy the B777s.
This is from the Swiss side,i can share to FT15.and this not a joke.


Southeast Asia is generally a low-yielding market for European carriers due to intense competition, and only Singapore and Thailand really work as markets. Malaysia and Vietnam probably mainly have their flights more due to prestige if anything, same for PR and GA.


The prestige thing is what I'm worried about. While a a ULR service brings prestige, they might go down the drain like MH after its heyday in the late 90s/early 2000s. Personally, I'm all for simplification of the fleet. While the article said that the 77Ws are too expensive to refit, hopefully they can refit some of the frames that would be the last to go. They can also do most of the work in house to reduce cost.

SleeplessInZh wrote:
They need a stronger presence in british tv.they must push themselves to take peoples attention.
They'll lose more by opening a route to paris.the aviation hub of europe is london.people will be upset again.i hope they will not open new routes to europe, just to stay in london.


Brexit may also create some economic headwinds. Might as well focus on other markets, and as said by other users, within the Schengen zone to provide an easier reach.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:22 pm

SkyHigher wrote:
It's the other daughter, obviously not Vivienne who is reportedly a PAL pilot. So I think, it may not be an advantage on the post-JJB era of PAL to have a pilot daughter on one of LT's children.

Aah...thank you. I thought it could also be one of her many accomplishments listed above...being technically savvy and all.


Philippine747 wrote:
While the article said that the 77Ws are too expensive to refit, hopefully they can refit some of the frames that would be the last to go. They can also do most of the work in house to reduce cost.

I wonder if LTP is certified for that kind of work...and if they were, would they be inclined to give PR a generous discount -- by virtue of LTG's partial ownership of MacroAsia? :scratchchin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
azyazy
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:09 am

Devilfish, LTP did the rework/refurbish of PAL’s monoclass to triclass. I wonder too, if they are qualified to do it on their B777s
 
Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:32 am

Devilfish wrote:
I wonder if LTP is certified for that kind of work...and if they were, would they be inclined to give PR a generous discount -- by virtue of LTG's partial ownership of MacroAsia? :scratchchin:


azyazy wrote:
Devilfish, LTP did the rework/refurbish of PAL’s monoclass to triclass. I wonder too, if they are qualified to do it on their B777s


The 777 is an entirely different ballgame, and most of the work was done by Boeing before delivery. I wonder if Singapore would also be a good option, some of the major Western carriers send their aircraft to Paya Lebar for maintenance.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:26 am

Philippine747 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
BKK and Thailand in general are low yielding markets with lesser premium demand, partly the reason why the ULR flights to USA ports failed.

Strange then that PR's North America services still survive despite the Philippines being said to be a low yielding market, perhaps even moreso than Thailand. I know the diaspora and O&D, but still. Meanwhile VN is only about to start non-stops to the US; sure their long time under Cat 2 was a factor, but even before that they didn't have non-stops to the US unlike PR.


There's probably the cargo factor as well, demonstrated by the tech stops in GUM during Christmas :P

filipinoavgeek wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago,his name was diego and has now a filipina girlfriend:) :) good for him.he told me,they will not have flights to manila in near future, with their new B777,because they rank manila as a low yield
market.bangkok was just profitable enough to deploy the B777s.
This is from the Swiss side,i can share to FT15.and this not a joke.


Southeast Asia is generally a low-yielding market for European carriers due to intense competition, and only Singapore and Thailand really work as markets. Malaysia and Vietnam probably mainly have their flights more due to prestige if anything, same for PR and GA.


The prestige thing is what I'm worried about. While a a ULR service brings prestige, they might go down the drain like MH after its heyday in the late 90s/early 2000s. Personally, I'm all for simplification of the fleet. While the article said that the 77Ws are too expensive to refit, hopefully they can refit some of the frames that would be the last to go. They can also do most of the work in house to reduce cost.

SleeplessInZh wrote:
They need a stronger presence in british tv.they must push themselves to take peoples attention.
They'll lose more by opening a route to paris.the aviation hub of europe is london.people will be upset again.i hope they will not open new routes to europe, just to stay in london.


Brexit may also create some economic headwinds. Might as well focus on other markets, and as said by other users, within the Schengen zone to provide an easier reach.


Ultimately, what the CAPA article doesn’t capitalize on is that PAL revenues have been growing steadily year on year. It’s the costs that have to be controlled.

They can suspend London, but it provides J-class feed throughout their network. To disconnect it now would also mean cutting off that revenue. PAL’s current approach has also narrowed its losses, considering that they have been paying for RSA’s narrowbody over-orders.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:45 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
If there was an aircraft suited for a Low Cost Carrier (LCC) that can fly LR at "full payload" which is all economy or mostly economy with a small premium cabin for a Thailand based airline, perhaps it may work.

:psst: I could point out one to you but I'd rather not.... :wink2:


SCFlyer wrote:
However, a long-haul aircraft suited for a LCC is a very very long while (if ever) off.

Scuttlebutt was the first one would EIS in 2020...albeit not in LCC configuration. :arrow:



SleeplessInZh wrote:
I talked to the marketing chef of swiss a year ago, has now a filipina girlfriend :) good for him. he told me they will not have flights to manila in near future with their new B777, because they rank manila as a low yield market.

Good that he has a Pinay gf...or that their 777 was not flying to MNL :?: Perhaps the chef did not approve of the onboard menu..... :snooty: ;)



LurveBus wrote:
Ultimately, what the CAPA article doesn’t capitalize on is that PAL revenues have been growing steadily year on year. It’s the costs that have to be controlled.

They can suspend London, but it provides J-class feed throughout their network. To disconnect it now would also mean cutting off that revenue.

Apparently, we jumped the gun regarding PR's upper management changes.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... nsion.html

PAL Confirms Long Haul Expansion

Quote:
"Philippine Airlines (PAL) Board of Directors has approved the retirement of Jaime J. Bautista as PAL president and chief operating officer, to take effect on June 30 but denied the appointment of PAL Executive Vice President/Treasurer and Chief Administrative Officer Vivienne K. Tan to replace him, PAL statement said Monday.

Ms. Tan instead is directed to work closely with Bautista for a smooth and orderly transition of management until a new President and COO is appointed, the PAL statement said.

The Board has decided to form a search committee to hire a new president and COO, according to PAL Vice Chairman Lucio “Bong” Tan Jr. who authored such proposal and carried by the board.

PAL Board said they need a 'professional manager' to steer the airline to new heights because 'it has 98 planes and it has a lot of long-range destinations planned'."



Love how stir was used in the headline :!: If true, it would really shake things up a bit. :stirthepot: :biggrin:


LurveBus wrote:
PAL’s current approach has also narrowed its losses, considering that they have been paying for RSA’s narrowbody over-orders.

And for widebodies too. :airplane:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 244
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:34 pm

What I don't get is why CAPA seems so negative on PAL in the first place. They never seem to say anything positive about the airline, to CAPA everything they do is wrong. Whether it was the LCC-ing during the SMC era, or the improvements in the Tan era 2.0. Meanwhile, other than CebPac's short-lived expansion in the Middle East, CebPac has received mostly praise from CAPA. It's like CAPA has a bias against FSCs in favor of LCCs, and similar sentiments have been shared by them in other markets as well. Sometimes they even contradict themselves: they say that Filipino flyers are price sensitive, but at the same time noting that PAL's strength is short-haul routes (because if price sensitivity really 100% mattered, you'd expect that PAL would be struggling even worse in short-haul than they are in long haul).
 
x1234
Posts: 504
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:41 pm

Just saw this: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183

PAL is better off launching Paris & Frankfurt which actually has PDEW demand to the Philippines with Frankfurt first. There is A LOT of German business in the Philippines.
 
PR77W
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Devilfish wrote:
LurveBus wrote:
Ultimately, what the CAPA article doesn’t capitalize on is that PAL revenues have been growing steadily year on year. It’s the costs that have to be controlled.

They can suspend London, but it provides J-class feed throughout their network. To disconnect it now would also mean cutting off that revenue.

Apparently, we jumped the gun regarding PR's upper management changes.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... nsion.html

PAL Confirms Long Haul Expansion

Quote:
"Philippine Airlines (PAL) Board of Directors has approved the retirement of Jaime J. Bautista as PAL president and chief operating officer, to take effect on June 30 but denied the appointment of PAL Executive Vice President/Treasurer and Chief Administrative Officer Vivienne K. Tan to replace him, PAL statement said Monday.

Ms. Tan instead is directed to work closely with Bautista for a smooth and orderly transition of management until a new President and COO is appointed, the PAL statement said.

The Board has decided to form a search committee to hire a new president and COO, according to PAL Vice Chairman Lucio “Bong” Tan Jr. who authored such proposal and carried by the board.

PAL Board said they need a 'professional manager' to steer the airline to new heights because 'it has 98 planes and it has a lot of long-range destinations planned'."


Love how stir was used in the headline :!: If true, it would really shake things up a bit. :stirthepot: :biggrin:


Looks like a power struggle is about to insue question is who is going to replaced JBB as the president of PAL.
 
LurveBus
Posts: 319
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

x1234 wrote:
Just saw this: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183

PAL is better off launching Paris & Frankfurt which actually has PDEW demand to the Philippines with Frankfurt first. There is A LOT of German business in the Philippines.


The numbers show that the European station with the largest volume of traffic to Manila is still LHR. FRA comes behind AMS/CDG/FCO/MXP.

There may be a lot of German business in Manila, but the one German company that has been badly burned thanks to Filipino oligarchs including the owner of PAL is Fraport.

It doesn’t help that traffic from Germany to Manila isn’t concentrated at any one point. The ME3 offer so many connections to HAM/TXL/MUC. Unless PAL can get a good agreement with LH and somehow make peace with Fraport, FRA is a no-go.
 
PR77W
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:35 am

Looks like we can expect some changes once a new president is appointed at the helm of PAL.

Quote:
“The plan is she (Tan) is just here for the interim,” Mison said.

Mison, however, said no schedule has been determined yet as to when a new president and COO will be named and appointed.

PAL’s board of directors last Monday approved the request for retirement of Bautista as PAL president and COO which will be effective June 30.


For the meantime, Tan is expected to steer the company in a new direction.

Asked if there will be big changes in PAL, Tan said: “Yes, a lot.”

Tan, daughter of taipan and PAL chairman Lucio Tan, earlier said she intends to work on a plan that would be aligned with attaining her father’s vision for the flag carrier.

However, she said she has to get all the information first to plan correctly, adding that “definitely we will make use of all the good people and talents of PAL.”

Wonder if it means making cuts on some of PAL soft product? :shakehead: I guess it also means RIP 5 stars! :tombstone:


Read more at: https://www.philstar.com/business/2019/ ... 8hkf9PT.99
 
Bobby27ph
Posts: 11
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:50 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
What I don't get is why CAPA seems so negative on PAL in the first place. They never seem to say anything positive about the airline, to CAPA everything they do is wrong


I disagree.

CAPA awarded PAL Most Improved Airline even before PAL became 4-star airline.

PAL is a business, and they hire consultants to rationalize their operations.

CAPA is one of the most reliable sources in the industry. The stats they publish is highly accurate.

Their analysts don’t care if London is an iconic destination. If it is unprofitable, then axe it.

I believe CAPA is a Singapore-based firm. They know what they are talking about.
PFSG Member

Avsim.net keyword: Bobby Santos
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:29 am

Bobby27ph wrote:
I believe CAPA is a Singapore-based firm. They know what they are talking about.

Actually, IIRC, they're based in Australia.
 
SleeplessInZh
Posts: 340
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:46 am

I ranked PAL @ 34 last year,somewhere between China Airlines and MAS.it exceeded my expectations.
For next year,i'll rank PAL at 17.but not yet a five star airline.
We don't know much about skytrax,but it is still a celebration for the Airline Staff,the CHEFS^^ and all the people behind an airline,for the hard working employees and dedication,that gave their fullest.its also a commercial plattform for the airlines.
Okay josh?Also seeing this from another perspective.
 
J343
Posts: 238
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:49 am

LurveBus wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Just saw this: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... don-478183

PAL is better off launching Paris & Frankfurt which actually has PDEW demand to the Philippines with Frankfurt first. There is A LOT of German business in the Philippines.


The numbers show that the European station with the largest volume of traffic to Manila is still LHR. FRA comes behind AMS/CDG/FCO/MXP.

There may be a lot of German business in Manila, but the one German company that has been badly burned thanks to Filipino oligarchs including the owner of PAL is Fraport.

It doesn’t help that traffic from Germany to Manila isn’t concentrated at any one point. The ME3 offer so many connections to HAM/TXL/MUC. Unless PAL can get a good agreement with LH and somehow make peace with Fraport, FRA is a no-go.


Looking at the UK's CAA statistics, LHR-MNL pax sees an increase every year. If I'm not mistaken, PR carried more passengers than Vietnam Airlines who serves Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi.

PR is seeing a rise in popularity here in the UK; mainly to Filipinos who travel beyond MNL i.e DVO, CEB etc. I work with a lot of Filipinos and they often tell me that they have to stay a night or two in Manila before heading to their respective hometowns. PR's entry was seen as a relief to some. However, most Filipinos; Luzon residents in particular still go with CX, SQ, EK, QR and EY. I have done some research myself and PR prices are significantly higher than the ones I've mentioned.

PR only started serving LHR in 2014 and it will take a while before the route matures. Passenger numbers are increasing and it's only a matter of time before PR can turn LHR into a profitable route. Having said that, competition for UK-PH market is fierce I believe. Established and strong players like CX, SQ and the ME3 are amongst the strongest players in the market with KE and OZ seeing a rise in popularity, particularly for Filipinos residing in CEB.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:13 am

A very enlightening final interview on CAPA with the retiring PAL president..... :chat: ....

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... tista-1096


https://blueswandaily.com/the-final-wor ... -bautista/
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Bobby27ph
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:36 pm

PAL adjusted the timing, ac type etc to accomodate for LHR paxs.

Even if MNL-LHR vv is a popular route, many take Gulf carriers instead.

Even the family members of cabin/tech crew would rather take EK/QR staff travel ($350 roundtrip), than paying full-fare on PAL.

EU also invented levies (carbon footprint), another burden for Asian airlines. Not to mention ever-changing NOTAMS over Indian, Iranian, and Ukranian airspace.
PFSG Member

Avsim.net keyword: Bobby Santos
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:16 pm

azyazy wrote:
LTP did the rework/refurbish of PAL’s monoclass to triclass.

Hmmn...now that the trash is back where it came from, that actually makes we wonder whether LTP is up to the challenge of outfitting a "green" A221 into a state transport if ever one got funded for the PAW :?: ... Nothing as fancy like shown below...but merely as described in #487 upthread... :scratchchin: ...

Image
https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6219/62 ... 3ce7_b.jpg

Otherwise, would it be much cheaper and easier to simply hand it over to other completion centers or BBD for conversion? Could make an apt sign of rapprochement after the quite dramatic diplomatic spectacles recently. :cheerful:



Over in Bulakan...it is now July 2nd and still nary a peep in the media regarding the much ballyhooed NMIA Gateway Swiss challenge...what gives..... :confused:


Ditto for the NAIA Modernization proposal..... :boggled:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SleeplessInZh
Posts: 340
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:08 pm

Mr. Ramon Ang SMC,this is how to design an airport
Beijings second international airport: Daxing International

https://youtu.be/PeCzNVxzJ4s
 
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Devilfish
Posts: 6501
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:43 pm

As if on cue, the DOTr is said to be awarding the NMIA 50-year concession contract to SMC.....(scooping the major dailies as usual)..... :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign:

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... o-smc.html



Meanwhile, the department's secretary stands pat on its decision that the Clark template should be followed for NAIA's redevelopment so the project could move forward..... :arrow: .....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2019/ ... rtium-told



From SkyscraperCity -- three recent photos at NAIA T3..... :camera: .....

Image
https://i.ibb.co/QmPw0TW/9.jpg

Image
https://i.ibb.co/n7hY8mJ/4.jpg

Image
https://i.ibb.co/5RN71zP/3.jpg

posted by: @absinthe_888
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
jteruel06
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:38 am

KE announced plans to CRK with a start in the end of October.

http://www.flightsinasia.com/article/4469
Jeffrey Teruel
Programmer, Publisher, Aviation Geek
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Further to the DOTr's stand on the NAIA Redevelopment proposal, PhilStar has issued this report explaining the matter..... :old: .....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2019/ ... tium-offer


Kudos to the agency for seeing through the proponents' obfuscation of the terms and conditions...and for putting the Government's and the people's best interests to the fore! :yes:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

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