How is Philippines Airlines doing on the JFK - MNL direct flight in terms of the occupancy factor and the yields?

PR's 5th A350 [RP-C3507] has rolled out off the paint shop featuring the "Love Bus" kiss mark.

Source: @Airbus

PR's 5th A350 has rolled out off the paint shop featuring the "Love Bus" kiss mark.

Source: @Airbus on Twitter

carlokiii wrote:

PR's 5th A350 has rolled out off the paint shop featuring the "Love Bus" kiss mark.

Source: @Airbus on Twitter

Well not surprised that it is more of a nose art then a special livery, considering the A300B-4 was in standard livery when it had the love bus logo. Still hoping PAL will introduced a special livery on one of there aircraft in the near future.

MWAH! Love the Love Bus! Mabuhay!

After much speculation, looks like it is NH investing in PR: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-Deals/Japan-s-ANA-to-buy-10-stake-in-Philippine-Airlines-sources

Reports have cited sales of up to a 40% stake, any speculation on who the other investor(s) may be?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pal-targets-stake-sale-to-strategic-investor-by-mid-454906/

PR77W wrote:

Well not surprised that it is more of a nose art then a special livery

It's definitely meant as a "tweak" to update the look a bit. Finally, PR have a splash of color on the bare front end of their aircraft. Although I was thinking there would be a little neutral muted design around the main nose art (red area in the tweet) for background. They have shown remarkable restraint here.

Zephyrhills wrote:

Reports have cited sales of up to a 40% stake, any speculation on who the other investor(s) may be?

That could be it...things might not be conducive for multiple interests. So, would they operate together and share lounges at NAIA Terminal 1 now

Ohhhhh its ANA!

Thehouyhnhnm wrote:

ANA it is

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Busine ... es-sources

ANA = possible *A membership.. goodbye OW?

If it will be *A, curious how SQ and TG collaborations will pan out.

Partnership with UA might be ok for connecting flights to the US, but competition with BR, OZ and NH itself for US bound traffic would be interesting!

Star Alliance procedures IIRC requires all members to unanimously vote in any potential new members.

The question is will SQ, TG, BR vote in favour of PR in if NH tries to sponsor PR into the Star Alliance? May there be a surprise 'veto' from an airline in a different region?
Although if it's only one airline 'veto-ing' and the rest of the Star Alliance group wanted the member in, the sole veto-ing airline would be under heavy pressure.

Quick clarification from PAL re: ANA entry

https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/01/23 ... c-investor

"PAL has always been open to the possibility of a strategic investor. As of date, there is no definite agreement between PAL and any investor," the airline said in a disclosure.

Hmmm.. interesting developments

docjowl wrote:

Quick clarification from PAL re: ANA entry

https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/01/23 ... c-investor

"PAL has always been open to the possibility of a strategic investor. As of date, there is no definite agreement between PAL and any investor," the airline said in a disclosure.

Hmmm.. interesting developments

Judging from the statement it looks like negotiations are still on-going and can still fall through so the statement would make sense IMHO.

SCFlyer wrote:

Star Alliance procedures IIRC requires all members to unanimously vote in any potential new members.

The question is will SQ, TG, BR vote in favour of PR in if NH tries to sponsor PR into the Star Alliance? May there be a surprise 'veto' from an airline in a different region?
Although if it's only one airline 'veto-ing' and the rest of the Star Alliance group wanted the member in, the sole veto-ing airline would be under heavy pressure.

Would like to point up that ANA Holding already owns a minority stake in VN and there members of sky team. So wouldn't yet hold my breath if PAL will join Star.

PR77W wrote:

SCFlyer wrote:

Star Alliance procedures IIRC requires all members to unanimously vote in any potential new members.

The question is will SQ, TG, BR vote in favour of PR in if NH tries to sponsor PR into the Star Alliance? May there be a surprise 'veto' from an airline in a different region?
Although if it's only one airline 'veto-ing' and the rest of the Star Alliance group wanted the member in, the sole veto-ing airline would be under heavy pressure.

Would like to point up that ANA Holding already owns a minority stake in VN and there members of sky team. So wouldn't yet hold my breath if PAL will join Star.

Key difference would be that VN was already an ST member long before NH bought into the airline.

Sharing the review of PAL's A350 Flight MNL-JFK by TPG --> 74/100

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/philip ... 0-economy/

docjowl wrote:

Quick clarification from PAL re: ANA entry

Apparently, it may be a while yet before this matter is finalized with whoever the strategic investor might be.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... na-455206/


PR's president may have been quoted out of context...or he should desist from issuing anymore indefinite statements to the media.

Dear God, please let Emirates invest in Philippine Airlines! As the 2nd final investor.Amen

Or Qatar Airways,or the Casino in Manila (that makes millions of dollars in profits/no sangley airport). Amen

SleeplessInZh wrote:

Dear God, please let Emirates invest in Philippine Airlines! As the 2nd final investor.Amen

Or Qatar Airways,or the Casino in Manila (that makes millions of dollars in profits/no sangley airport). Amen

Much better if QR, IMO if in case PR wants to join OW.

ANA issued a statement regarding the discussions with PAL.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-455236/

Despite the indefinite nature of the talks, non-disclosure agreement and unresolved issues, one winner in this drama seems to be PAL Holdings' stock..... .....

https://business.inquirer.net/264051/ot ... rity-stake



Elsewhere...as one SkyscraperCity member puts it, Panglao International Airport looks like it is 5J's home..... .....

source: @ctto Leslie Chow

https://scontent.fcrk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5CBDDEB1



https://scontent.fcrk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5CCC57A3

posted by: @mrwhitepatch

The Inquirer reveals PR A359's "full monty"..... .....



https://business.inquirer.net/264123/pa ... e-love-bus


Awaiting Airbus' photo tweet for the delivery flight next month. YYZ spotters will have something "fresh" to look forward to.


http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-YYZ&MS=wls&DU=nm

It's quite "interesting" (to say the least) that Flightglobal chose a crowded photo of NAIA Terminal 1's check-in hall for its banner analysis on "megatrends and aviation's future" ..... .....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-454997/


https://d3fod5fkpt74ph.cloudfront.net/c ... 6f5e8c.jpg


Is there really no relief on the horizon

Looks like SGL may be coming online soon: it's scheduled to open in October, and PR will move all turboprop operations there from CRK.

Akiestar wrote:

Looks like SGL may be coming online soon: it's scheduled to open in October, and PR will move all turboprop operations there from CRK.

What's the status of the proposed Sangley Boulevard road widening project that's supposed to be the main access to SGL

http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/PPP/projs/Cavitex_Sangley


http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/sites/defau ... angley.jpg



http://cdn.ibtimes.ph/sites/ph.ibtimes. ... r2uyee.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7469/2830 ... 6972_c.jpg

Unreported on this thread, but 5J's first NEO has entered service last January 23, with its first revenue service as 5J581 from Manila to Cebu.

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

Beautiful lovebus!not too much.i love the livery.

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

I haven't heard this. Why would Lucio Tan want to sell part of PR back to San Miguel, especially considering what happened the last time they invested?

There are a lot of rumors going around that I don't know are true or not and I figured deserve explanation. One particular rumor that caught my eye was in the TPG comments section, where someone said DL considered investing in PR but backed off, leading to a collapse in talks between the two airlines.

Akiestar wrote:

Why would Lucio Tan want to sell part of PR back to San Miguel, especially considering what happened the last time they invested?

He may not want to but having operations split between NAIA and SGL could be more trouble than it's worth to him keeping the turboprop side in the fold (what with 5J also competing for the same passengers). For RSA, he might need to start his own airline (as he was known wanting to previously) perhaps to dominate MPH now that other carriers seem to be dialing back their services there (jets being prohibitive for the time being). Just my .


PR A359 "Love Bus" (msn 280) in the air..... .....

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

I have also heard about this rumor couldn't find any sources online. However I have to also question how this will benefit LTG since GAP operates most of PAL domestic flights with the exception of CEB, DVO and GES. if this push through will PAL once again takeover domestic operations once more, and if RSA bought GAP will they just focus on MPH?
With so many questions however I wouldn't dismissed this rumor unless LTG or RSA offically release any statement about this rumors.

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

Not true, at least according to Arianespace (who is generally a very good source for insider info) - although he says RSA is negotiating for PR to move their operations to Bulacan if/when it is opened.

PR77W wrote:

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

I have also heard about this rumor couldn't find any sources online. However I have to also question how this will benefit LTG since GAP operates most of PAL domestic flights with the exception of CEB, DVO and GES. if this push through will PAL once again takeover domestic operations once more, and if RSA bought GAP will they just focus on MPH?
With so many questions however I wouldn't dismissed this rumor unless LTG or RSA offically release any statement about this rumors.

If this did actually happen, they could always sign a code-sharing agreement so PAL can focus on domestic trunk routes while the hypothetical spun-off PALex/Air Philippines can focus on the rest.

idp5601 wrote:

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

Not true, at least according to Arianespace (who is generally a very good source for insider info) - although he says RSA is negotiating for PR to move their operations to Bulacan if/when it is opened.

PR77W wrote:

azyazy wrote:

Anybody here heard the rumors/gossips with RSA buying 2P from LTG and will be rebranding it back to Air Philippines?

I have also heard about this rumor couldn't find any sources online. However I have to also question how this will benefit LTG since GAP operates most of PAL domestic flights with the exception of CEB, DVO and GES. if this push through will PAL once again takeover domestic operations once more, and if RSA bought GAP will they just focus on MPH?
With so many questions however I wouldn't dismissed this rumor unless LTG or RSA offically release any statement about this rumors.

If this did actually happen, they could always sign a code-sharing agreement so PAL can focus on domestic trunk routes while the hypothetical spun-off PALex/Air Philippines can focus on the rest.

That makes sense and also quite ironic as RSA have plan back in 2012 when he was still ceo of PAL was to have its own airport. Looks like SMC Bulacan Airport will be competing with CRK! additionally with JG Summit involved at the North Luzon Airport Consortium it is likely that 5J will turn CRK as its primary hub in the future? However I have to asked those this effect APG how also have plans to expand operations at CRK?

Only need to cross the t's and dot the i's..... .....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... h-pal.html


Kampai.....

Devilfish wrote:

Akiestar wrote:

Looks like SGL may be coming online soon: it's scheduled to open in October, and PR will move all turboprop operations there from CRK.

What's the status of the proposed Sangley Boulevard road widening project that's supposed to be the main access to SGL

http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/PPP/projs/Cavitex_Sangley


http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/sites/defau ... angley.jpg



http://cdn.ibtimes.ph/sites/ph.ibtimes. ... r2uyee.jpg



https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7469/2830 ... 6972_c.jpg

This proposed Sangley Boulevard connecting CAVITEX to SGL is still a proposal. But CAVITEX Infra Corp. mentioned in an article to BusinessWorld August last year that they would consider building it, as long as there would be positive developments in that airport.

Done deal...time to pour out the sake...or for those who prefer stronger, native libation - lambanog ..... .....


https://assets.rappler.com/612F469A6EA8 ... A3B401.jpg


One thing that interests me most with this collaboration was the statement of PR's president linked in #68 above.....

Quote:
"Bautista said having a large strategic partner was nevertheless beneficial for PAL and its goals to expand globally and to boost profitability.

'Airline margins now are very low so for an airline to be profitable, you really need to reduce costs,' Bautista said. He explained that PAL could tap its partner and enter into joint purchasing agreements to win more favorable terms."


I read that to mean "new aircraft for starting upcoming long-haul routes".....and there seems to be only two suitable candidates within the limits of PR's purse..... .....


https://d3fod5fkpt74ph.cloudfront.net/e ... 57b302.jpg


This could be a tightly contested tender...small size notwithstanding.



And to answer my own question upthread.....

Devilfish wrote:

Is there really no relief on the horizon

With a little modification, the Government could build this SM-esque conceptual design at PVH/Nayong Pilipino area on its own if the concessionaires won't...to provide a neat solution to the NAIA terminals' overcrowding and ample gate number for new aircraft coming on line..... .....


https://scontent.fmnl4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5CCF870B


All it takes is political will and a little less subservience to entrenched interests.

Devilfish wrote:

One thing that interests me most with this collaboration was the statement of PR's president linked in #68 above.....

Quote:
"Bautista said having a large strategic partner was nevertheless beneficial for PAL and its goals to expand globally and to boost profitability.

'Airline margins now are very low so for an airline to be profitable, you really need to reduce costs,' Bautista said. He explained that PAL could tap its partner and enter into joint purchasing agreements to win more favorable terms."


I read that to mean "new aircraft for starting upcoming long-haul routes".....and there seems to be only two suitable candidates within the limits of PR's purse..... .....


https://d3fod5fkpt74ph.cloudfront.net/e ... 57b302.jpg


This could be a tightly contested tender...small size notwithstanding.

Considering that we're talking about NH here, I'm assuming any potential for PR taking advantage of their new partner's favourable deals to get more long-haul planes would involve Boeing aircraft.

Devilfish wrote:

I read that to mean "new aircraft for starting upcoming long-haul routes".....and there seems to be only two suitable candidates within the limits of PR's purse..... .....


https://d3fod5fkpt74ph.cloudfront.net/e ... 57b302.jpg


This could be a tightly contested tender...small size notwithstanding.



And to answer my own question upthread.....

B789 is likely to be chosen by PAL (finally) for some long haul expansion but this should be done for routes outside MNL like CRK and CEB. I don't see A338 to be the best aircraft for PAL on long haul, despite commonality to the existing A333.

CAPA has a premium analysis for the ANA investment in PAL

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... nds-457733

Very interesting concluding statements from CAPA after putting things in perspective:

"While the deal is strategically significantly for PAL, which has been trying to secure a foreign airline investor for years, the stake is small, and the USD95 million investment is pocket change for ANA. The fact that the transaction values PAL at only USD1 billion, despite group revenues of over USD2.5 billion and an extremely attractive slot portfolio at congested Manila, reflects the challenges PAL faces."

idp5601 wrote:

Considering that we're talking about NH here, I'm assuming any potential for PR taking advantage of their new partner's favourable deals to get more long-haul planes would involve Boeing aircraft.

Not exclusively...for sure, both airframers would get an even chance to tender. To wit..... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1414183

SkyHigher wrote:

B789 is likely to be chosen by PAL (finally) for some long haul expansion but this should be done for routes outside MNL like CRK and CEB. I don't see A338 to be the best aircraft for PAL on long haul, despite commonality to the existing A333.

Not necessarily...I was merely speculating that there would be an RFP given the airline's pronouncement on 'global' expansion. That said, MNL will continue to attract most of it, despite major developments in CEB and CRK. While I favored the 789 for PR originally, they have decided on the A359 and that will have a bearing on future choices. The A338's main disadvantage here is its lack of an existing operator base, and indeed the paltry order book. It might surmount these and the slight efficiency edge of the 789 if the "better than expected" test results are borne out in actual service. At the end of the day, it would all come down to pricing and who offers the better deal.

docjowl wrote:

Very interesting concluding statements from CAPA after putting things in perspective:

Without seeing the full analysis, I'd say that is a fairly accurate assessment of the transaction.

docjowl wrote:

"an extremely attractive slot portfolio at congested Manila, reflects the challenges PAL faces"

And that's where an "expeditiously built" terminal like the above at NAIA would have the most positive impact

Devilfish wrote:

idp5601 wrote:

Considering that we're talking about NH here, I'm assuming any potential for PR taking advantage of their new partner's favourable deals to get more long-haul planes would involve Boeing aircraft.

Not exclusively...for sure, both airframers would get an even chance to tender. To wit..... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1414183

I was referring more to long-haul planes, and NH doesn't seem to have any plans to buy any long-haul/widebody Airbus aside from the A380 at the moment anyway.

Speaking of RFI CEB is looking to double its wide-body fleet by the 2020s.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fi-455422/

Delivery is expected to be either late-2020 or in 2021. Possible candidates are either the Airbus A330neo or the Boeing 787 Dreamliners.

idp5601 wrote:

I was referring more to long-haul planes, and NH doesn't seem to have any plans to buy any long-haul/widebody Airbus aside from the A380 at the moment anyway.

I'm trying to recall if the stillborn A358 was ever offered to ANA in competition with the 788 when they were renewing their widebody fleet..... .....


In any case, it is PR who would be needing the additional lift sooner or later.

PR77W wrote:

Speaking of RFI CEB is looking to double its wide-body fleet by the 2020s. Delivery is expected to be either late-2020 or in 2021. Possible candidates are either the Airbus A330neo or the Boeing 787 Dreamliners.

Most interesting are these lines.....

Quote:
"They will support growth in slot-constrained markets rather than the expansion of the airline's long-haul network.

'We are not doubling our widebody fleet to go and fly lots of places long-haul. Yes we will want to do long-haul, yes we may do the [US] west coast, but that is not our priority,' says Szucs.

'Our priority, we see it more as a big bus in these very very slot-constrained markets, where the only way we are going to grow is through extra seat capacity. There will be some long-haul routes for sure, but about 75% of the flying of the widebodies will be in the short-haul regional market around Asia Pacific'."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 19-455414/

Quote:
"The Philippine low-cost carrier says the 236-seat A321neo help it maximise precious airport slots at Manila’s congested Ninoy Aquino International. Its longer range will also allow the carrier explore new destinations in India, Russia, northern Japan and Australia."


These again also highlight the very urgent need for terminal capacity expansion at NAIA

https://www.philstar.com/business/2019/ ... unway-0624

B787-9 are nice.but i wonder if they'll wait for the ultimate, creme de la creme B777x-9s.
They still have options for 6 A359s or 35k.
With the 95 million,they could refurbish their other A330s,if they are not greedy.
I don't think they'll go for the A330neo.even do its one of my favourite plane.
But thinking about the NAIA problem...they might delay their orders.

PR77W wrote:

Speaking of RFI CEB is looking to double its wide-body fleet by the 2020s.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fi-455422/

Delivery is expected to be either late-2020 or in 2021. Possible candidates are either the Airbus A330neo or the Boeing 787 Dreamliners.

With the intended purpose of increasing capacity around Asia rather than any real long-haul flying, this is Airbus' order to lose. With the A339 matching/exceeding the maximum exit limits of all 787 variants, their A333 already in 9-abreast economy, and with real long-haul flying on the back-burner, the 787 family just doesn't offer anything better except for arguably lower CASM.

While the Dreamliner is a great plane and undoubtedly more efficient, the A330 (in CEO or NEO form actually in view of NEO's marginal efficiency gain over the CEO for shorter flights) is just a better fit for 5J's needs.

It would be exciting if it was the 787-9, that would mean a second Boeing model in major airline service in PH. THe A330neo is also good though

ANY new destinations out of CEB besides NGO or new Western Airlines??? Could PR try CEB-HNL?

b777900 wrote:

ANY new destinations out of CEB besides NGO or new Western Airlines??? Could PR try CEB-HNL?

CZ just launched CAN-CEB and Juneyao just launched PVG-CEB. Aside from that, nothing new.

As for PR trying CEB-HNL, I think that's highly unlikely at the moment. If PR wants to do CEB-US again LAX would be their main priority.


On another note, someone on another aviation forum I follow is saying that some Boeing reps are going to travel to the Philippines this month to pitch the 777X to PR.

idp5601 wrote:

On another note, someone on another aviation forum I follow is saying that some Boeing reps are going to travel to the Philippines this month to pitch the 777X to PR.

If ever, I doubt PR would go bigger than the 778...... .....


https://www.airlineratings.com/wp-conte ... 777-8X.jpg


Perhaps after MNL gets its new premier international gateway in Bulakan .....


https://simpleflying.com/wp-content/upl ... ll-169.jpg


I imagine it will have stiff competition in this..... .....


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWAuBDZVoAAFa0A.jpg


Just my .

Devilfish wrote:

idp5601 wrote:

On another note, someone on another aviation forum I follow is saying that some Boeing reps are going to travel to the Philippines this month to pitch the 777X to PR.

If ever, I doubt PR would go bigger than the 778...... .....

I wouldn't entirely write off the 779 as well, to be honest. If I recall correctly, PR had good loads (both pax and cargo) on their 744 on US West Coast routes, and since the 779 is supposedly much more efficient than the 744 and is currently the closest in terms of capacity to said plane that is also practical for PAL, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility for them to purchase it in the near future.

That being said, I believe PR will ultimately end up with the A35K, unless Boeing cuts them an outrageously good offer.