Tokyo777
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:13 pm

Why would there be an engineless A350? Was this a flight test frame that will never see commercial service?
 
rutankrd
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:37 pm

UnitedIsBae wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
Iran Air could have used these planes


What market does Iran Air have that can sell 600, 700 or 800 seats ? None I can think of, Iran Air would also have a huge y cabin and small J cabin. An A380 is too big and too complicated for Iran Air, does Tehran even have any A380 capable gates ? There are few if any good airlines for used A380's, it works well for airlines with large J class cabins but dogs when those J seats are replaced with Y seats and the seat count goes to 700 or more.

To Saudi Arabia for religious flights? I know Malaysian flies large widebodies there. But I might have heard of some political issues between Iran and Saudi Arabia.


Iranians mainly from the Shia Islam faith aren’t welcome in Saudi Arabia and there are currently no regular flights between Saudi Arabia and Iran whatsoever.

Yes politics again. Saudi Arabia and Iran are actively fighting a moral war of minds across the region and more actual proxy war in Yemen.

Right now Iran Air/ Mahran would have zilch use for them period.

Whilst Islam obligates pilgrimage once in a life time for Shia followers Najaf is in fact more visited.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:39 pm

Tokyo777 wrote:
Why would there be an engineless A350? Was this a flight test frame that will never see commercial service?

Yes, MSN 1-4 were all test frames.

https://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/th ... -timeline/ says:

MSN4 joined the A350 flight test fleet for external noise and lightning tests, avionics development and certification and training for first customer pilots and maintenance teams.

If it never sees commercial service, that would be a shame.

MSN 5 and later are all in commercial service.
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OldAeroGuy
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:58 pm

marcelh wrote:
parapente wrote:
Flew in and out of this airport about 6 weeks ago.What struck me was the rows and rows of Airbus - all quads - all the different shapes and sizes ( inc 380).Such an odd decision to continue developing them over and over again.Their first ( hairdryer) model yup ok there was fair logic ( and enough-just- sales).But beyond this? The writing was there for all to see.
The A300/310/330/NEO have been a magnificent family of aircaft.But how much better might they have been had they poured their considerable resources into this WB twin concept which ironically Airbus pioneered in the first place.Somewhat perverse imho.


Perhaps Airbus wanted a bigger A333, but the only available engine was a “Boeing only”.


At the time of the A333 launch, there was no 777 size engine. If one had existed, I doubt it would have been "Boeing only". In addition, you can't over look the desire of Lufthansa for four engine long range airplanes. The A330/A340 2/4 engine configurations were seemly the perfect solution.
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musman9853
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:20 pm

rutankrd wrote:
UnitedIsBae wrote:
jfk777 wrote:

What market does Iran Air have that can sell 600, 700 or 800 seats ? None I can think of, Iran Air would also have a huge y cabin and small J cabin. An A380 is too big and too complicated for Iran Air, does Tehran even have any A380 capable gates ? There are few if any good airlines for used A380's, it works well for airlines with large J class cabins but dogs when those J seats are replaced with Y seats and the seat count goes to 700 or more.

To Saudi Arabia for religious flights? I know Malaysian flies large widebodies there. But I might have heard of some political issues between Iran and Saudi Arabia.


Iranians mainly from the Shia Islam faith aren’t welcome in Saudi Arabia and there are currently no regular flights between Saudi Arabia and Iran whatsoever.

Yes politics again. Saudi Arabia and Iran are actively fighting a moral war of minds across the region and more actual proxy war in Yemen.

Right now Iran Air/ Mahran would have zilch use for them period.

Whilst Islam obligates pilgrimage once in a life time for Shia followers Najaf is in fact more visited.


Lol there's tons of Iranians doing umrah/hajj
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Stitch
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Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:31 pm

smartplane wrote:
There would be a significant balloon payment falling due at end of lease, payable by SQ. If the intention is to part out, the leasor retains that payment, and applies against the residual debt.


For Doric's Emirates A380 deals, there are two balloon payments, one in USD and one in Euros. For MS077, the amounts (in USD at current rates) is 12.77 million and 15.36 million. They will be due in late 2011 provided EK does not extend the lease (they have a two year option).

I am guessing that as a percentage, Doric / Dr. Peters deal with SQ was similar, so we're probably looking at something in the USD 20 million range.


smartplane wrote:
We don't know the compensation paid by Airbus for late delivery, most likely received as a credit, and partly / fully transferred to the leasor.


At least some of the compensation to SQ was in the form of subsidized lease rates on new A330-300s.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Beyond the lack of a suitable engine to power a twin with an MTOW between 250,000 and 300,000kg, we need to remember that Airbus had long-planned a dual two-engine regional and quad-engine long-haul frame going back to the TA9 (twin) and TA11 (quad) concepts of the early 1970s, which had themselves been revisions of plans to offer a larger A300 (the A300-B9) to compete with the initial low gross weight versions of the DC-10 and L-1011 and the quad-powered A300-B11 to replace the long-range 707 and DC-8 models (and later, the HGW DC-10 and L-1011 models). So even once the GE90 became available, it did not fit into Airbus' strategy of the time (which was now known as the A330 and A340 families).
 
smartplane
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Re:

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:52 pm

Stitch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
There would be a significant balloon payment falling due at end of lease, payable by SQ. If the intention is to part out, the leasor retains that payment, and applies against the residual debt.


For Doric's Emirates A380 deals, there are two balloon payments, one in USD and one in Euros. For MS077, the amounts (in USD at current rates) is 12.77 million and 15.36 million. They will be due in late 2011 provided EK does not extend the lease (they have a two year option).

I am guessing that as a percentage, Doric / Dr. Peters deal with SQ was similar, so we're probably looking at something in the USD 20 million range.

Leases have head and secondary components, with the latter primarily the residual. Most EK leases are in USD / GBP respectively, not USD / EUR.

There are fixed and variable components to end of lease (EOL) payments. Variable components include accrued maintenance and inspections related to actual hours / cycles flown, history and condition.

Leasees do everything in their powers to mitigate EOL payments, and when that fails, use a new lease to obtain concessions on the old.

For example, a leasee may mitigate EOL payments by completing all EOL formalities in-house, as and when required by the leasor.

Unless every single valuation, term and condition is disclosed and financial impact known, starting with how the original book and projected residual values were established, tax status of the participants, and residual protection liability (in respect to leasee and OEM), it's very difficult to reach a conclusion.
 
smartplane
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Re:

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:56 pm

Stitch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
We don't know the compensation paid by Airbus for late delivery, most likely received as a credit, and partly / fully transferred to the leasor.


At least some of the compensation to SQ was in the form of subsidized lease rates on new A330-300s.

Or was that for the wiring and/or out of service time for the wing mod?
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:31 pm

Please keep the thread on topic.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 pm

Anyone have a finger on when the first EK frames will hit the secondary market?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:58 pm

UPlog wrote:
Anyone have a finger on when the first EK frames will hit the secondary market?

These are on 12 year leases, so mid next year, which means that the first frame could be taken out of service early next year in preparation for lease return.
 
smartplane
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:47 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Anyone have a finger on when the first EK frames will hit the secondary market?

These are on 12 year leases, so mid next year, which means that the first frame could be taken out of service early next year in preparation for lease return.

Not all A380's are leased, and not all leases are disclosed (where participants and financiers agree).

First EK A380 was delivered in July 2008, so if on a 12 year lease from day one, the lease would expire in July 2020.

On a delivered from new lease, it's normal to withdraw the aircraft from commercial service 2-3 months early, to complete all end of lease obligations. Even earlier, if the aircraft is nearing maximum cycles, or more likely hours, after which additional hours attract a surcharge.

Most leases permit EK to complete end of lease (EOL) work in-house, at a date mutually agreed between the leasor and EK, and continue to operate the aircraft on an on-demand hourly rate basis, in return for free storage.

If the leasor hasn't got a new customer lined up, then expect it to remain at DXB or DWC, in EK livery. If the leasor has got a new customer, then expect EK to apply a new livery, or if sold for parts, then livery removal.

Also, interesting to see how much equity Airbus (or related parties) still have in the aircraft, which will be a factor in it's after life. If significant, and no new operator, will sit with EK or in Europe until parts and depreciated values are about equal, and then scrapped.
 
Strato2
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
parapente wrote:
Flew in and out of this airport about 6 weeks ago.What struck me was the rows and rows of Airbus - all quads - all the different shapes and sizes ( inc 380).Such an odd decision to continue developing them over and over again.Their first ( hairdryer) model yup ok there was fair logic ( and enough-just- sales).But beyond this? The writing was there for all to see.
The A300/310/330/NEO have been a magnificent family of aircaft.But how much better might they have been had they poured their considerable resources into this WB twin concept which ironically Airbus pioneered in the first place.Somewhat perverse imho.

At the time of the A380 launch, I was working the A305, a very 787 like plane, but less range as it was advanced aluminum instead of CFRP and an A320 re-engine for TATL range on the A321. :scratchchin:

Obviously the A380 camp won.


Obviously. Obviously this mythical A305 lost also to the A350. This Flight Global story reports industry sources saying the A305 could be done after the A380 but it never happened. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... e7-162645/
In the meantime Airbus sold 800 A330's which this A305 would in part have cannibalised. Also would have been bad to launch a aluminium fuselage clean sheet couple of years earlier than the drug rush like 787. I reckon a worse mistake than a four engined A340 (500/600) against the 777 ever was.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:10 am

fpetrutiu wrote:
You know, this is kind of sad. This comes from a Boeing guy. A second hand A380 I thought it could have made itself profitable on low yield tourist routes at low frequency to destinations like MCO in a sardine can config. With relatively low acquisition cost, could potentially work for a new type of airline based in MCO or LAS flying 2x weekly frequencies to gateways around the world mainly targeting vacation goers.

I mean MCO-Gatwick sees a B772, B744, and an B788 daily.


I guess we'll see that in the not so distant future, mainly by leased by tour operators linking big tourist markets and for cruise traffic as well.

Hi density 747's have been used on that purpose for years, I remember Air Pullmantur flying 742's out of MAD to the likes of HAV, MIA, PUJ and some cities in the coast of Brazil.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:51 am

fpetrutiu wrote:
You know, this is kind of sad. This comes from a Boeing guy. A second hand A380 I thought it could have made itself profitable on low yield tourist routes at low frequency to destinations like MCO in a sardine can config. With relatively low acquisition cost, could potentially work for a new type of airline based in MCO or LAS flying 2x weekly frequencies to gateways around the world mainly targeting vacation goers.

I mean MCO-Gatwick sees a B772, B744, and an B788 daily.

I do SO not want to be the next international arrival after that high density A380 pulls up at the gate, imagine the nightmare of the MCO CBP line which is bad enough now. :cry2:
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upperdeckfan
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:56 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
fpetrutiu wrote:
You know, this is kind of sad. This comes from a Boeing guy. A second hand A380 I thought it could have made itself profitable on low yield tourist routes at low frequency to destinations like MCO in a sardine can config. With relatively low acquisition cost, could potentially work for a new type of airline based in MCO or LAS flying 2x weekly frequencies to gateways around the world mainly targeting vacation goers.

I mean MCO-Gatwick sees a B772, B744, and an B788 daily.

I do SO not want to be the next international arrival after that high density A380 pulls up at the gate, imagine the nightmare of the MCO CBP line which is bad enough now. :cry2:


Would you rather be on the next int'l arrival or ON the high density A380 coming from LGW? LOL
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
parapente
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pm

https://www.abcdlist.nl/a380f/a380f.html

This website gives all the builds and deliveries of A380's to date.
What it shows is that Emirates were by no means the 'first movers' of this aircaft in any meaningful numbers.The first 'main batch' came at the very end of 2012 and mainly 2013. This ties in well ( for them ) with the present slow production rate - they are in no hurry.

Furthermore their first 10-15 ish would have been the ones that were many tons overweight and also the engines were pre PIP. So not particularly attractive perhaps.In addition to this they were also pre the latter wing twist which improved AFC.That did not happen until ( I think) 2013.
As stated it's impossible to know which aircaft were leased or not and whether Airbus had/has any interest in them.There are possibly about 30 Emirates a380's that they might be happy to let go when/ if leases expire. ( less if they own them outright which they may for some of them)Which sounds about right compared to their orders and maintaining an operational fleet of 100-120 aircraft that are the best they could be.
Be Yong that? If there is no NEO version then one imagines they will continue to maintain this fleet -which clearly they could do for at least a further 12 years or more.It is after all the bedrock of their whole positioning.If India ( as it appears) is going to relax they bi lateral constraints then Emirates will certainly fly more A380's in and out of India.
Mind you,if Emirates were to offer to slap a 100a/c order in for an A380 NEO in say 2024for delivery starting in 2027 then it's very likely it will happen imho.RR will have developed the 'Ultra' by then ( Right power band) and we know Airbus have developed a further wing twist and blended winglets to go with it.That would easily offer a 15% + sfc improvement over the T900/std wing without any densification which is also available as well.
All of which depends entirely on Emirates business model working at least as well as it is today.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:30 pm

parapente wrote:
Mind you,if Emirates were to offer to slap a 100a/c order in for an A380 NEO in say 2024for delivery starting in 2027 then it's very likely it will happen imho.RR will have developed the 'Ultra' by then ( Right power band) and we know Airbus have developed a further wing twist and blended winglets to go with it.That would easily offer a 15% + sfc improvement over the T900/std wing without any densification which is also available as well.
All of which depends entirely on Emirates business model working at least as well as it is today.

Meanwhile, EK still hasn't closed the engine deal it said it would close by the end of October, and even that date was later then the date needed to avoid gaps in the production line.

Without the engine deal, the 20+16 airframe order is in limbo.

And even reaching that deal required Leahy to float the idea that Airbus would start the process of shutting down the line if EK didn't agree to terms ( ref: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1EL11L ).

I don't think people in TLS are spending too much energy thinking about A380neo.
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parapente
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:49 pm

I agree.Of course everything rests on closing the existing engine deal. Without it the slow process of 'winding down' will happen, simply becUse it has to,there are no further orders beyond the circa 30 yet to be built for the present order.
Indeed the 'NEO' aspect may indeed be the present stumbling block.The plane -indeed a 'plus' version of the plane is available.But it's the engines that matter of course.
With this order the timing falls into place based on RR estimates for the Ultra.But that does not mean they are prepared to commit to it for the 380.Could be the old 'chicken and egg'.The engine first -or - the order commitment.
At the future glacial production rates I can't see that they are tripping over lead times yet or anything close.But none the less it has to be sorted one way or the other.
As the article stated it's not Armageddon they will have enough aircraft to keep them going for another decade or so.
It's hard for RR to make a binding commitment when the engine does not even exist.
 
Noshow
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:18 pm

EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection? Don't they agree to some ballpark number about the engine pricing before? Does EK want out of the entire deal somehow?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:59 pm

Noshow wrote:
EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection?


If I am remembering past threads correctly, EK is not pleased with what they feel is a too-low On-Wing time for the RR engines due to the sandy environment of Dubai and have been pressuring RR to improve it before placing a new order.
 
smartplane
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:21 pm

Stitch wrote:
Noshow wrote:
EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection?


If I am remembering past threads correctly, EK is not pleased with what they feel is a too-low On-Wing time for the RR engines due to the sandy environment of Dubai and have been pressuring RR to improve it before placing a new order.

EK signed a conditional contract with Airbus. Conditional on engine contract. Conditional on finance. Conditional on agreeing T&C's.

RR engines are on PBTH, so on wing time (or lack thereof) is a cost for RR, and an inconvenience for EK. They will start to have access to on demand ex-lease aircraft from mid-2020. RR presumably already paying penalties on 'excess hour' early delivery EA-powered A380's, picking up the RR ground time.

Issue with RR engines around performance degradation (environment?) and the PiP promised to rectify, and a further PiP to raise performance.

More importantly, EK are still bundling the 787, 777X and A380 engine deals. Obviously no RR option on the X, but still leaverage to get EA back on the A380 with a PiP, as quid pro quo for 787 order. And to get Boeing's attention, even the possible reduction or loss of the X, which Airbus would dearly love to facilitate as payback for Boeing's A330NEO shenanigans.

Not difficult to see how the fortunes of Boeing have become intertwined with GE, and Airbus with RR and PW. Ownership, other than current equity interest via nominees, becomes more likely every day.
 
ScottB
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:09 pm

parapente wrote:
https://www.abcdlist.nl/a380f/a380f.html

This website gives all the builds and deliveries of A380's to date.
What it shows is that Emirates were by no means the 'first movers' of this aircaft in any meaningful numbers.The first 'main batch' came at the very end of 2012 and mainly 2013. This ties in well ( for them ) with the present slow production rate - they are in no hurry.


That list absolutely shows that EK was one of the first movers on the A380. They took three of the first ten A380s delivered to customers and five of the first twenty. The only larger operator in early days was SQ.

parapente wrote:
If there is no NEO version then one imagines they will continue to maintain this fleet -which clearly they could do for at least a further 12 years or more.It is after all the bedrock of their whole positioning.


As long as manufacturer support continues on commercially acceptable terms, I see no reason why EK couldn't continue to operate its existing A380 fleet for another 25 to 30 years. The practice of scrapping aircraft after 12 years and replacing them with aircraft with only modestly better operating efficiency is baffling to me.

parapente wrote:
Mind you,if Emirates were to offer to slap a 100a/c order in for an A380 NEO in say 2024for delivery starting in 2027 then it's very likely it will happen imho.RR will have developed the 'Ultra' by then ( Right power band) and we know Airbus have developed a further wing twist and blended winglets to go with it.That would easily offer a 15% + sfc improvement over the T900/std wing without any densification which is also available as well.


Airbus isn't going to do a neo for just a 100-plane order from EK, unless EK is willing to cover the cost of the re-engine/re-design as well as a better margin with the line running at maybe 10 frames per year -- unless there's some sort of payment with respect to RLI which they can push further out or avoid by extending the program. The A380 line isn't making money at that low of a delivery rate so essentially Airbus assumes billions of dollars/euros of risk if for some reason EK doesn't take delivery of a substantial portion of that order. RR isn't going to spend billions chasing an order for 400 or so engines, either, when there's far more money to be made in other segments of the market -- like a future re-engine of the A350.
 
BN747
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:22 pm

So which two are the white whales in the pic?

9V-SKA ...judging by discussion.

9V-SKB?
9V-SKC?

I checked the article, no regs listed.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
aviationaware
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:28 pm

BN747 wrote:
So which two are the white whales in the pic?

9V-SKA ...judging by discussion.

9V-SKB?
9V-SKC?

I checked the article, no regs listed.

BN747


SKC is with HiFly now as 9H-MIP. Should be A and B on the graveyard.
 
Western727
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:40 pm

n471wn wrote:
Does anyone know hours and cycles on the two aircraft being scrapped?


Like to know as well. Do any of you know the figures for the two 380s? TIA.
Jack @ AUS
 
pygmalion
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:26 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
marcelh wrote:
parapente wrote:
Flew in and out of this airport about 6 weeks ago.What struck me was the rows and rows of Airbus - all quads - all the different shapes and sizes ( inc 380).Such an odd decision to continue developing them over and over again.Their first ( hairdryer) model yup ok there was fair logic ( and enough-just- sales).But beyond this? The writing was there for all to see.
The A300/310/330/NEO have been a magnificent family of aircaft.But how much better might they have been had they poured their considerable resources into this WB twin concept which ironically Airbus pioneered in the first place.Somewhat perverse imho.


Perhaps Airbus wanted a bigger A333, but the only available engine was a “Boeing only”.


At the time of the A333 launch, there was no 777 size engine. If one had existed, I doubt it would have been "Boeing only". In addition, you can't over look the desire of Lufthansa for four engine long range airplanes. The A330/A340 2/4 engine configurations were seemly the perfect solution.


The A330-300 and the 777-200 both used the PW4000 series core. The A330-300 with a 100" fan (PW4168) and the 777-200 with a 112" fan (PW4084). So the engines were out there. GE offered Airbus the GE90 but Airbus turned them down as they decided to go "4 engines for long haul" and wasn't going to go for a larger sized long haul twin. So the A330-300 got the GE 80C2-E1 that GE developed for the A333.

The larger engines were available though. The A333 made its first flight in 1992, the 772 in 1994... 2 years, barely a blip in time in an aircraft development cycle
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:33 am

fpetrutiu wrote:
You know, this is kind of sad. This comes from a Boeing guy. A second hand A380 I thought it could have made itself profitable on low yield tourist routes at low frequency to destinations like MCO in a sardine can config. With relatively low acquisition cost, could potentially work for a new type of airline based in MCO or LAS flying 2x weekly frequencies to gateways around the world mainly targeting vacation goers.

I mean MCO-Gatwick sees a B772, B744, and an B788 daily.


Perhaps 800 seats per day to a leisure destination would kill already low yields on such flights?
 
n471wn
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:52 am

Western727 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Does anyone know hours and cycles on the two aircraft being scrapped?


Like to know as well. Do any of you know the figures for the two 380s? TIA.


See my note above on one of them and souls assume the other is close to the numbers I noted
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:35 am

aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:
So which two are the white whales in the pic?

9V-SKA ...judging by discussion.

9V-SKB?
9V-SKC?

I checked the article, no regs listed.

BN747


SKC is with HiFly now as 9H-MIP. Should be A and B on the graveyard.

That’s correct:
9V-SKA, MSN 003, SQ #1, was transferred to Tarbes in November 2017.

9V-SKB, MSN 005, SQ #2, was transferred to Tarbes in November 2018.

As already stated by Aviationware, 9V-SKC, MSN 006, SQ #3 became HiFly‘s 9H-MIP.
 
parapente
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:39 am

Re ScottB.
My comments were a little off thread so will be brief.
No Airbus/RR would never do a NEO just for the A380.It would only possibly happen as a spin off for something far more important such as you say a NEO 350.Indeed this would only happen imho if the engine -The Ultra geared fan engine -was positioned to power the 789/10-11?
as well as the 350.
If such an RR engineering project was announced in the ( quite distant) future then it would be possible ( same general power requirements) to consider a 380NEO just as they did back when the XWB engine was first launched.
Of course may never happen at all.Indeed production rates as you mention is a key parameter.Simply this is the only way the project as a whole could continue.
As agreed its not the end of the World for Emirates either way,they would ( by then) be shot of all early build aircaft and could simply double or triple the operational life of the existing very large fleet.
 
brindabella
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:40 pm

Stitch wrote:
Noshow wrote:
EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection?


If I am remembering past threads correctly, EK is not pleased with what they feel is a too-low On-Wing time for the RR engines due to the sandy environment of Dubai and have been pressuring RR to improve it before placing a new order.


Hmmm,

RR is up to its' a...hole in alligators,

And STC wants them to fix the current product and simultaneously promise an entirely new engine.
With guarantees, of course.
:bouncy:

And if RR miss?

You betcha STC will kick the bejesus out of them.


So the attraction for RR in this scenario is ... what ... exactly?
:sarcastic:

cheers
Billy
 
brindabella
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:52 pm

smartplane wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Noshow wrote:
EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection?


If I am remembering past threads correctly, EK is not pleased with what they feel is a too-low On-Wing time for the RR engines due to the sandy environment of Dubai and have been pressuring RR to improve it before placing a new order.

EK signed a conditional contract with Airbus. Conditional on engine contract. Conditional on finance. Conditional on agreeing T&C's.

RR engines are on PBTH, so on wing time (or lack thereof) is a cost for RR, and an inconvenience for EK. They will start to have access to on demand ex-lease aircraft from mid-2020. RR presumably already paying penalties on 'excess hour' early delivery EA-powered A380's, picking up the RR ground time.

Issue with RR engines around performance degradation (environment?) and the PiP promised to rectify, and a further PiP to raise performance.

More importantly, EK are still bundling the 787, 777X and A380 engine deals. Obviously no RR option on the X, but still leaverage to get EA back on the A380 with a PiP, as quid pro quo for 787 order. And to get Boeing's attention, even the possible reduction or loss of the X, which Airbus would dearly love to facilitate as payback for Boeing's A330NEO shenanigans.



Not difficult to see how the fortunes of Boeing have become intertwined with GE, and Airbus with RR and PW. Ownership, other than current equity interest via nominees, becomes more likely every day.



I always enjoy your posts - however- it would seem to me that EK dumping 777X orders would do at least as much damage to EK as it might to BA?

cheers
Billy
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:55 pm

ScottB wrote:
Airbus isn't going to do a neo for just a 100-plane order from EK, unless EK is willing to cover the cost of the re-engine/re-design as well as a better margin with the line running at maybe 10 frames per year -- unless there's some sort of payment with respect to RLI which they can push further out or avoid by extending the program. The A380 line isn't making money at that low of a delivery rate so essentially Airbus assumes billions of dollars/euros of risk if for some reason EK doesn't take delivery of a substantial portion of that order. RR isn't going to spend billions chasing an order for 400 or so engines, either, when there's far more money to be made in other segments of the market -- like a future re-engine of the A350.

Re: RLI crash out: What we've seen Airbus do in the past (in particular with the A400M program) is bring the governmental stake holders in a room and try to negotiate better terms. They could make the point that they could just follow the strategy of keeping the line open at the lowest possible rate but it'd be better for everyone involved (esp Airbus itself) if a stretched pay out could be arranged. Since DE, FR and ES hold stakes it won't be too hard to convince them. I think the UK RLI is with Rolls so that won't be Airbus's problem to solve, but Airbus may have some too.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Western727
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:46 pm

n471wn wrote:
Western727 wrote:
n471wn wrote:
Does anyone know hours and cycles on the two aircraft being scrapped?


Like to know as well. Do any of you know the figures for the two 380s? TIA.


See my note above on one of them and souls assume the other is close to the numbers I noted


Ah!! Thank you, kindly. I was afraid I might've missed it, and I did...
Jack @ AUS
 
nonrev
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:30 am

Surprised there is no clamour for the first in service A380 to be preserved in some way.
 
travelhound
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:48 am

There are probably quite a few people who would love to see the end of the first in service plane.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:35 am

pygmalion wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
marcelh wrote:

Perhaps Airbus wanted a bigger A333, but the only available engine was a “Boeing only”.


At the time of the A333 launch, there was no 777 size engine. If one had existed, I doubt it would have been "Boeing only". In addition, you can't over look the desire of Lufthansa for four engine long range airplanes. The A330/A340 2/4 engine configurations were seemly the perfect solution.


The A330-300 and the 777-200 both used the PW4000 series core. The A330-300 with a 100" fan (PW4168) and the 777-200 with a 112" fan (PW4084). So the engines were out there. GE offered Airbus the GE90 but Airbus turned them down as they decided to go "4 engines for long haul" and wasn't going to go for a larger sized long haul twin. So the A330-300 got the GE 80C2-E1 that GE developed for the A333.

The larger engines were available though. The A333 made its first flight in 1992, the 772 in 1994... 2 years, barely a blip in time in an aircraft development cycle


Thanks, very informative.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:46 pm

smartplane wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Noshow wrote:
EK signed the new A380 contract with Airbus, at least that was announced. RR is the likely engine supplier. So what exactly is delaying their formal engine selection?


If I am remembering past threads correctly, EK is not pleased with what they feel is a too-low On-Wing time for the RR engines due to the sandy environment of Dubai and have been pressuring RR to improve it before placing a new order.

RR engines are on PBTH, so on wing time (or lack thereof) is a cost for RR, and an inconvenience for EK. They will start to have access to on demand ex-lease aircraft from mid-2020. RR presumably already paying penalties on 'excess hour' early delivery EA-powered A380's, picking up the RR ground time.

Issue with RR engines around performance degradation (environment?) and the PiP promised to rectify, and a further PiP to raise performance.

Not sure if this piece of information has already posted in another thread (the thread viewtopic.php?t=1405701&start=350 would have been a better place but has been locked already):

Trent 900 Issues
Issues with the Trent 900 engine for the Airbus A380 are linked to thermal erosion in high-pressure turbine blades, for which a new design was introduced in early 2017. In addition, a further re-design has been scheduled for 2020 that should fully solve durability issues and return those engines to originally specified inspection limits. As a result, some A380 operators are experiencing higher than anticipated inspections and maintenance costs.

Source, article from yesterday: https://airinsight.com/solving-multiple ... lls-royce/
 
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Revelation
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:21 pm

N14AZ wrote:

Thanks! The author (Ernest Arvai) did a very good job of summarizing the issues facing the T900 (and T1000 as well).

It sounds like if STC really wants a fix before signing the contract he needs to wait till 2020 for the scheduled redesign.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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robby31
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:30 pm

Some (sad) pics of the 4 ex SIA A380's in Tarbes today
[https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/46547201604_9bd3a4e134_h.jpg][/https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7818/46547205584_66fa36b52c_h.jpg]
[/https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/47218574882_24f3357cdd_h.jpg]
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:44 pm

robby31 wrote:
Some (sad) pics of the 4 ex SIA A380's in Tarbes today
[https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/46547201604_9bd3a4e134_h.jpg][/https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7818/46547205584_66fa36b52c_h.jpg]
[/https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/47218574882_24f3357cdd_h.jpg]

Sad. indeed.

Image

Image

Image
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
marcelh
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:21 pm

Revelation wrote:
Sad. indeed.

Really? I alwaya had the impression you would like to see the whale fail. I must have read something wrong...
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:10 pm

What are the other aircraft there, besides what looks like an A320, B744 ex-SV, and the two DS-owned A388s?
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:11 pm

marcelh wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Sad. indeed.

Really? I alwaya had the impression you would like to see the whale fail. I must have read something wrong...

Think of a movie critic: They might have critical comments with regard to a given production or even genre, but they don't want to see them fail.

It's sad to see such young aircraft rotting in the sun as parts slowly get stripped off them, but their fate was determined before their first flight.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:49 pm

Always sad to see derelict aircraft, especially so against such a magnificent background. I drove past Mojave's boneyard once and for an airliner enthusiast it was heartbreaking.
707/717/727/737-100,200,300,400,500,700,800/747-200,300,400/757-200,300/767-300,400
772/788&9/DC3/DC6/DC8/DC9/DC10/MD80s/L1011/A300/A319,320,321/A332&3/A343/A359/A388/
BAE146/ATP/ATR42/DHC2,3,7,8/S340B/CRJ200,700,900/E140,145,175,190/F70,100/B1900
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:21 pm

In terms of potential future use of these airframes. Has Dr Peters gone for lunch with Dr Peppers yet ?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:48 pm

ClipperYankee wrote:
Always sad to see derelict aircraft, especially so against such a magnificent background. I drove past Mojave's boneyard once and for an airliner enthusiast it was heartbreaking.

Don't do that. Something is heart wrenching about seeing the huge fleet doomed there. It used to be my favorite and least favorite part of the trip to Mammoth.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
itisi
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:49 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Chop chop.

Two of many more to come. Folks at Tarbes will be busy with A380s in coming years.


Try to control your excitement...
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)

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