CHRISBA35X
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:15 am

MrHMSH wrote:
CHRISBA35X wrote:

Cue lots of frothing Boeing fans all wetting their pants about the sight of an A350 going for scrap.

As for SKC my first A380 flight was on her, LHR-SIN way back in 2008. She was an absolute marvel. I couldn't get over how quiet and spacious she was. Probably my all time favourite flight in economy ever, I would say. Sad to see her go so quickly.


Pedant's note:

The former 9V-SKC is still flying, it's the HiFly A380 (9H-MIP). The A380s being scrapped are 9V-SKA and SKB. SKC is my favourite as I flew in J on her which was simply wonderful. I've flown all the first 6 SQ A380s, they are great for fliers.



that's lovely to note - and what a lovely scheme too!
 
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Revelation
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:03 pm

moa999 wrote:
At the time it was launched the CASM was fine versus the 772/773 if you could fill it, but it's a limited set of routes that can fill it.

But it struggles going forward against the 777X and 350neo without a new engine and other enhancements, and any future sales would be even less so Airbus couldn't justify the investment unless it priced the aircraft unsustainably.

I think it says a lot that Airbus + RR could not get a NEO to pencil out in 2014-6 even with EK begging them to do so, publicly shaming them for not doing so, and dangling a big launch order in front of them to try to induce them to do so. Airbus said they would not do a NEO just for EK which suggests no other A380 customer was willing to buy even a token amount of NEOs to preserve the future of the product even if they put new engines on it and did some of the other optimizations being demoed as "A380 Plus".

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Cue lots of frothing Boeing fans all wetting their pants about the sight of an A350 going for scrap.

One can be a fan of A350 without being a fan of A380, like me. A350 sales numbers show that Airbus did a great job at product specification and we have hard data showing Airbus executed the design, test and production of the aircraft at the highest level. Our famous A350 vs 789 thread shows how closely matched the products are. It's sad they can't find a good use for this early bird. Hopefully some museum saves it before it gets scrapped.
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Stitch
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:37 pm

CHRISBA35X wrote:
Cue lots of frothing Boeing fans all wetting their pants about the sight of an A350 going for scrap.


Well Airbus fans have been "wetting their pants" at the 787s that have gone to scrap so 'sauce for the goose', I guess. :frown:


Revelation wrote:
One can be a fan of A350 without being a fan of A380, like me.


And one can be a fan of both the A350 and A380 while accepting one found great success in the marketplace while one did not.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:06 am

From the cradel to the grave... We have been following MSN 003's history from its birth, it's first revenue-flight and now it's time to say good-bye. Some additional pictures from an article published by aero.de:

Image
Image
Source: https://www.aero.de/news-33227/Erster-A ... rlegt.html

Not only the production of an A380 seems to be a huge challenge, even dismantling an A380 needs some additional efforts.. as one can see from this vehicle under MSN 003's fuselage... :-/
 
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Revelation
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:22 pm

N14AZ wrote:
From the cradel to the grave... We have been following MSN 003's history from its birth, it's first revenue-flight and now it's time to say good-bye. Some additional pictures from an article published by aero.de:

Image
Image
Source: https://www.aero.de/news-33227/Erster-A ... rlegt.html

Not only the production of an A380 seems to be a huge challenge, even dismantling an A380 needs some additional efforts.. as one can see from this vehicle under MSN 003's fuselage... :-/

Thanks for the post, N14AZ , the pictures are very impressive!
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Ronaldo747
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:28 pm

Not a A380 fan, but it does not matter, especially the first photo makes me very sad.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Stitch wrote:
And one can be a fan of both the A350 and A380 while accepting one found great success in the marketplace while one did not.

I agree the market acceptance is the main differentiation and is an art not a science. IMO Airbus wasn't very artful with their approach to the A380's marketplace. To some the issue of marketplace acceptance is not very relevant, they'd be happy if only a handful ever got built and they got a chance to experience it regardless of the economic damage it caused its makers and its operators. To others it is a central issue, one so central it impacts their "fandom". IMO there's no right answer, there's no accounting for taste.

Ronaldo747 wrote:
Not a A380 fan, but it does not matter, especially the first photo makes me very sad.

Yes, it is a sad occasion to see this, or any other airplane, get scrapped.

Although we know it is the inevitable fate of the large majority of airplanes we'll ever see to end up being scrapped, it is still hard to accept.

They represent a huge amount of work on the behalf of their creators and operators, and a lot of happy memories for a lot of travelers.

In the end, though, we do have to accept that this is how it ends for most aircraft.
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Antaras
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:33 pm

Sad ending for those A380 airframes, especially when those are just less or more than 12 years old :(.
Airbus needs to start to think about what to do with more than a dozen airframes which are planned to be retired in the next few years. At least, AIB shouldn't be sitting there and say sth kinda like "we still believe that there are places for the A380s in the sEcoNd hAnD maRkEt" :D
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ei146
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:26 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Not only the production of an A380 seems to be a huge challenge, even dismantling an A380 needs some additional efforts.. as one can see from this vehicle under MSN 003's fuselage... :-/


That's just a SPMT or Self Propelled Modular Transporter, the industry standard for moving heavy and oversized loads. Somehow you have to get her out of the hangar without the landing gear...
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:46 pm

(As good a place as any to ask this, I did check the archives...)

Is "Dr." a German abbreviation for another word? Or is the company known in English as "Doctor Peters"? Wikipedia didn't help.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:51 pm

Google helped. I assume it's this guy

https://www.dr-peters.de/en/asset-manag ... aft/#c1234
 
USAirKid
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:36 am

smokeybandit wrote:
Google helped. I assume it's this guy

https://www.dr-peters.de/en/asset-manag ... aft/#c1234


That is the company, but it doesn't elucidate how the company got its name.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:51 am

I appears from the latest pictures that the movable and some minor fuselage parts that are easily removable and with the best chance of resale have been removed. I am quite sure internal parts that have value have been removed for resale or scrap. The early production models have wiring and other components almost exclusive to them, not worth much but scrap, a key factor in the entire scrapping of these A380's.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:09 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
(As good a place as any to ask this, I did check the archives...)

Is "Dr." a German abbreviation for another word? Or is the company known in English as "Doctor Peters"? Wikipedia didn't help.


Dr. is a legal German abbreviation, prefixing the name of a person who completed their Ph.D. or equivalent.
Legal in a way that once a person in question has attained their Ph.D. paperwork, the title "Dr." becomes part of their legal last name, and is mandatory to appear on their documents.

Renaming companies while shifting between languages -- that practice appears to have died off some time ago. Unless of course you are shifting between writing systems: Latin-Greek-Cyrillic-Hebrew-Arabic-Chinese-Hindi etc. -- there the name change is apparently par for the course. Otherwise, the whole thing would become messy -- I gather you would have difficulties with identifying "Luft Frankreich" or "Chemins de l'Air de Bretagne" as Air France and British Airways. So, company names stay what they are.
Last edited by Phosphorus on Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Momo1435
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:13 am

It's indeed Doktor Peters Group, but I have no idea why they picked that name.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Revelation wrote:
[To some the issue of marketplace acceptance is not very relevant, they'd be happy if only a handful ever got built and they got a chance to experience it regardless of the economic damage it caused its makers and its operators. To others it is a central issue, one so central it impacts their "fandom". IMO there's no right answer, there's no accounting for taste.


You are describing some other aircraft? Perhaps the 777-200LR or 757-300? 747-8i? Don't know how this is relevant in thread about the A380. What is relevant is these people are not aviation fans but accountants and it is surprising these people fool around here and not Bloomberg.
 
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robby31
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:55 pm

Anybody can explain why the customized structure (on the photo below) carrying the empty remaining body of the dead SKA aircraft has been granted that many wheels (72 apparently) vs the original aircraft which I guess was much much heavier ? Strange no ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:42 pm

robby31 wrote:
Anybody can explain why the customized structure (on the photo below) carrying the empty remaining body of the dead SKA aircraft has been granted that many wheels (72 apparently) vs the original aircraft which I guess was much much heavier ? Strange no ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?


Original aircraft was a carefully designed vehicle, properly balanced, full of diagnosing sensors and computing power, with a limited amount of wheels attached to carefully selected and reinforced points by landing gear -- and that gear is an engineering marvel in itself.

The dead hulk lays on its belly, and that belly was definitely designed with priorities other, than allowing the entire frame to rest on it, while being towed. Also, nobody controls the center of gravity. And the wheels on aircraft landing gear are somewhat different from the wheels of the platform that carries the hulk.

That's some of the fairly basic stuff.
Maybe somebody with education in aerostructures can come up with a few reasons more.
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:02 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
robby31 wrote:
Anybody can explain why the customized structure (on the photo below) carrying the empty remaining body of the dead SKA aircraft has been granted that many wheels (72 apparently) vs the original aircraft which I guess was much much heavier ? Strange no ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?


Original aircraft was a carefully designed vehicle, properly balanced, full of diagnosing sensors and computing power, with a limited amount of wheels attached to carefully selected and reinforced points by landing gear -- and that gear is an engineering marvel in itself.

The dead hulk lays on its belly, and that belly was definitely designed with priorities other, than allowing the entire frame to rest on it, while being towed. Also, nobody controls the center of gravity. And the wheels on aircraft landing gear are somewhat different from the wheels of the platform that carries the hulk.

That's some of the fairly basic stuff.
Maybe somebody with education in aerostructures can come up with a few reasons more.

It also spreads the weight out over a greater area leading to a much lower point load on the ground. This would eliminate the risk of damage to nonA380 specialized hangar floors and taxiways.
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lhrnue
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:25 pm

Did Dr. Peter's investors make money out of their investment. Those A380 investments where once the big thing after ship investments declined.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:34 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Who paid $600 million for them ?

When SQ bought them, they listed for something like $325 million. Don't know how much SQ paid for each frame, but it was just an estimate.


I see that in 2011 and 2012 Doric bought several A380's: MSN077, 090, 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, all at the price of $234 million. All these frames were leased to Emirates. Source: https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/londo ... t/81206750

I guess SQ would have paid considerably less (launch operator discount + ordered when the list price was lower + late delivery discount + non-standard wiring discount).
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:16 pm

art wrote:

I guess SQ would have paid considerably less (launch operator discount + ordered when the list price was lower + late delivery discount + non-standard wiring discount).


Just because SQ may have bought them for cheap doesn't necessarily mean that they will sell to leasing companies cheap. It's a very common tactic for airlines to book gains by selling at a higher price on these sales, which will effectively be amortized with higher rents in the lease.

That being said, whoever is performing jedi mind tricks for lessors to give SQ short leases on widebodies (10 years for an A380, even shorter for smaller widebodies) needs to be retained and protected at all costs.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:51 pm

I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

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ei146
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:10 pm

robby31 wrote:
Anybody can explain why the customized structure (on the photo below) carrying the empty remaining body of the dead SKA aircraft has been granted that many wheels (72 apparently) vs the original aircraft which I guess was much much heavier ? Strange no ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?


That is no customized structure. As I wrote earlier this is an Self-propelled modular transporter (SPMT). Look it up in the net, you will see thousends of pictures and videos. You can rent them by the hour or day, and as they are modular exactly tailored to your task.
In this case I think they are far from their maximum load. The number of modules and thus number of axles is probably determined by the required size of the flatbed.
As the SPMTs provide a flat surface to place the load the blue supporting structures visible in the pictures are probably customized. They can be used again, there will be more A380 coming to their shop.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:15 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

Lightsaber


And Air France retired F-HPJB today. Flew off to Malta to be returned to the lessor.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjb
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:24 pm

I really don't get how these young frames get totally retired so soon. There must be a lot of room to negotiate better leasing deals. And leasing companies must have a high interest to keep the fleet going.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:35 pm

Noshow wrote:
I really don't get how these young frames get totally retired so soon. There must be a lot of room to negotiate better leasing deals. And leasing companies must have a high interest to keep the fleet going.

It seems Dr. Peters was pretty generous on their return conditions, or AF was losing so much money on A380 it was best for them to get out from under the A380 at an early date.
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
Noshow wrote:
I really don't get how these young frames get totally retired so soon. There must be a lot of room to negotiate better leasing deals. And leasing companies must have a high interest to keep the fleet going.

It seems Dr. Peters was pretty generous on their return conditions, or AF was losing so much money on A380 it was best for them to get out from under the A380 at an early date.

I'm guessing that, with most of the fleet still in service and few retirements so far, there is a robust market for spare parts and that dictated the lowest leasing cost Dr. Peters Group was willing to offer. Neither DPG nor AF have an interest in losing money. If another airline offers more than the scrap value, DPG will happily lease (or potentially sell) it to them.
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:55 pm

art wrote:
I guess SQ would have paid considerably less (launch operator discount + ordered when the list price was lower + late delivery discount + non-standard wiring discount).


SQ leased their first three frames direct from Airbus Financial Services. In January 2008, Doric Asset Finance purchased the frames from AFS for $198.6 million each and entered into a 10 year lease with SQ at $1.7 million per month with a two year extension option. German bank Nord LB provided debt through a 12-year loan, an equity bridge, and an extra back-up facility. Equity distribution was with with Dr Peters, who sourced the funds from individual German investors. Doric also purchased the next two frames for SQ under identical terms (so the two deals encompassed MSN003 / 9V-SKA, MSN005 / 9V-SKB, MSN006 / 9V-SKC, MSN008 / 9V-SKD, MSN010 / 9V-SKE).
 
smartplane
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:59 pm

Revelation wrote:
Noshow wrote:
I really don't get how these young frames get totally retired so soon. There must be a lot of room to negotiate better leasing deals. And leasing companies must have a high interest to keep the fleet going.

It seems Dr. Peters was pretty generous on their return conditions, or AF was losing so much money on A380 it was best for them to get out from under the A380 at an early date.

Always options to terminate leases early, at a cost to the lessee.

The fact this aircraft has flown to Malta, either for tax and / or re-paint, suggests a life other than parts is possible, unless just for decal removal. Or the early lease termination isn't amicable, and the lessee is re-painting instead of agreeing a cash sum in lieu, as part of the EOL payment. If scrapping, usually the lessor and lessee agree a cash sum, lower than the cost of a re-paint.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:04 pm

Wow. A $600 million airplane becomes the value of an E175.
 
MADPYRO
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:44 pm

dcajet wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

Lightsaber


And Air France retired F-HPJB today. Flew off to Malta to be returned to the lessor.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjb


This is the first of the AF A380s to go?

Also, anyone got a retirement schedule for the AF birds?
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
smartplane
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:10 pm

Stitch wrote:
art wrote:
I guess SQ would have paid considerably less (launch operator discount + ordered when the list price was lower + late delivery discount + non-standard wiring discount).


SQ leased their first three frames direct from Airbus Financial Services. In January 2008, Doric Asset Finance purchased the frames from AFS for $198.6 million each and entered into a 10 year lease with SQ at $1.7 million per month with a two year extension option. German bank Nord LB provided debt through a 12-year loan, an equity bridge, and an extra back-up facility. Equity distribution was with with Dr Peters, who sourced the funds from individual German investors. Doric also purchased the next two frames for SQ under identical terms (so the two deals encompassed MSN003 / 9V-SKA, MSN005 / 9V-SKB, MSN006 / 9V-SKC, MSN008 / 9V-SKD, MSN010 / 9V-SKE).

As these are blind leases, we don't have the full picture in respect of Terms & Conditions, nor side agreements.

For example, do retrospective credits relating to these specific air frames, accruing on the total AF purchase of A380's (and possibly other Airbus types too), belong to the lessor, lessee, or were shared?
Is there a buyback agreement between the lessor and AFS or another related Airbus party?
What is the value of the 'End of Lease' payment/s?
 
dcajet
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:31 pm

MADPYRO wrote:
dcajet wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

Lightsaber


And Air France retired F-HPJB today. Flew off to Malta to be returned to the lessor.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjb


This is the first of the AF A380s to go?

Also, anyone got a retirement schedule for the AF birds?


Yes it is.
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USAirKid
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:54 am

dcajet wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

Lightsaber


And Air France retired F-HPJB today. Flew off to Malta to be returned to the lessor.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjb


I'm guessing AF didn't take anything or much from the interior. It was flying in revenue service earlier this week.
 
foxtrotbravo21
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:17 am

For RR there were be a surplus of A380 engines from the stored and scrapped planes - wonder what can RR do with the engnes as they are made for the A380s and probably worth half or less of their value.
 
smartplane
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:09 am

foxtrotbravo21 wrote:
For RR there were be a surplus of A380 engines from the stored and scrapped planes - wonder what can RR do with the engnes as they are made for the A380s and probably worth half or less of their value.

EA will have a similar issue.

Some customers opt to prepay PBTH, and others will have committed to a specific period, usually the lease term plus 2 years. In the case of RR, the engines in some cases are owned by RR and leased to the lessor / operator.

The engine OEM's will either negotiate an early termination of the contract if the lessee relationship is valued, or insist on compliance / payment if not.

Engine OEM's are probably in a better place than Airbus, so don't get the violins out too soon.
Last edited by smartplane on Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
HB-IWC
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:09 am

Somewhat related to this thread, does anyone know what is up with SQ's A388 9V-SKT. This aircraft is the last one of the first batch of 19 aircraft and has not flown for 10 months. Its last commercial flight was in January of this year. Is it permanently stored?
 
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:53 pm

HB-IWC wrote:
Somewhat related to this thread, does anyone know what is up with SQ's A388 9V-SKT. This aircraft is the last one of the first batch of 19 aircraft and has not flown for 10 months. Its last commercial flight was in January of this year. Is it permanently stored?


No idea. Would like to know also !
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:49 pm

USAirKid wrote:
dcajet wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I noticed Dr. Peters leases A380 to AirFrance. At least per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Peter ... nvestments
This investment might not have the best return...

Lightsaber


And Air France retired F-HPJB today. Flew off to Malta to be returned to the lessor.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/f-hpjb


I'm guessing AF didn't take anything or much from the interior. It was flying in revenue service earlier this week.


The AF A380 has a crusty old product onboard that they haven’t invested in for years, so I don’t think many of the interior fittings would hold much value even as spares for the remaining frames.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:01 pm

lhrnue wrote:
Did Dr. Peter's investors make money out of their investment. Those A380 investments where once the big thing after ship investments declined.


I believe about a 5 percent return for subsidiary DS Aviation. DP Aircraft is a separate division of Dr. Peters Group that leases Dreamliners, two B788s each to Norwegian and Thai Airways International. Also, keep in mind that the lease that SQ signed was with Airbus directly...probably to get these non-standard frames off the hands of Airbus. The leases were then traded around before ending up with DS Aviation.

Now, as for the Air France A380 draw-down, those planes don't really make money for them except to the slot-restricted JFK...however, if AF could add a fifth daily CDG-JFK flight on a 5-class B77W, or partner DL upgauges JFK-CDG to an A359 (the largest DL plane), that could replace that capacity.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:40 am

Some more information from Dr. Peters about the parting-out:

Wie steht es um die Fonds von Dr. Peters im Detail? Zwei A380 werden seit Ende 2018 zerlegt und sollen in Einzelteilen verkauft werden. Dies betrifft die Fonds DS 129 und DS 130. Mittlerweile seien alle verwertbaren Teile der beiden Flugzeuge ausgebaut, geprüft, verpackt sowie eingelagert und würden nun innerhalb des Komponentenverkaufs vermarktet, sagt Sebastian Podwojewski, Sprecher von Dr. Peters. Seit dem Verkaufsbeginn im Dezember 2018 hätten so schon mehr als 500 Teile veräußert werden können, wie die Fahrwerke sowie wesentliche Teile der Kabine und der Bordcomputer.

„Mit diesem Auftakt sind wir zufrieden“, sagt Podwojewski. Auch der erzielte Verkaufserlös von bislang zusammen gut 35 Millionen Dollar sei solide. Da der Komponentenverkauf auf mindestens zwei Jahre angelegt sei, könne man aber derzeit noch kein abschließendes Urteil abgeben. Hinzu kämen monatliche Einnahmen von rund 480.000 Dollar für jedes Flugzeug aus dem Vermieten der Triebwerke an den Motorenhersteller Rolls Royce.

Source: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/me ... 06974.html

Rough translation:
- parting-out started at the end of 2018
- now all utilizable parts have been removed, checked, packed and stored and are available on the market
- since December 2019 more than 500 parts have been sold, e.g. MLG, cabin and bord computers
- revenues so far 35 million US$
- however, process not yet completed, so final numbers for the revenues from parts not yet available
- on top, monthly revenues in the amount of 480,000 $ for the engines

aemoreira1981 wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Did Dr. Peter's investors make money out of their investment. Those A380 investments where once the big thing after ship investments declined.


I believe about a 5 percent return for subsidiary DS Aviation. DP Aircraft is a separate division of Dr. Peters Group that leases Dreamliners, two B788s each to Norwegian and Thai Airways International. Also, keep in mind that the lease that SQ signed was with Airbus directly...probably to get these non-standard frames off the hands of Airbus. The leases were then traded around before ending up with DS Aviation.

That figure (5% vs. 7.25% as initally planned) has been mentioned in that article as well:

Auf diese Weise hätten beide Fondsgesellschaften im Sommer schon vollständig entschuldet werden können. Zudem hätten diese Fonds im Herbst ihre Auszahlungen mit 5 Prozent wieder aufnehmen können. Prospektgemäß hätten es jedoch 7,25 Prozent sein müssen. Im Frühjahr 2020 seien ebenfalls 5 Prozent vorgesehen. Die tatsächliche Auszahlung hänge aber von den Verkaufserlösen ab.
 
JustSomeDood
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:32 pm

Less than 20% RV (assuming $200M purchase price) in 10 years, that's pretty screwed up right there. Hopefully their fund depreciated this thing accordingly or that's a gigantic write-off.

This is the equivalent of a Lessor buying A321neos for 60M a pop and then finding in 10 years it's worth 12M and no second airline will lease them. Nobody will do an operating lease with those sort of prospects.
 
moa999
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:46 pm

All depends. In a 0% rate environment, the 5% return is probably just OK.
 
CFRPwingALbody
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:58 am

N14AZ wrote:
From the cradel to the grave... We have been following MSN 003's history from its birth, it's first revenue-flight and now it's time to say good-bye. Some additional pictures from an article published by aero.de:

Image
Image
Source: https://www.aero.de/news-33227/Erster-A ... rlegt.html

Not only the production of an A380 seems to be a huge challenge, even dismantling an A380 needs some additional efforts.. as one can see from this vehicle under MSN 003's fuselage... :-/


Sorry but AFAIK there are several parts still attached that can be taken of as spare parts.
To me this parted out aircraft looks ready to try some A380 improvements. EASA AD ...
Hopefully Airbus can make this work, otherwise they might try a A380NEW rebuild program, but that would require several billions to develop.
This was one of the Wrong wired planes, getting a decade of service out of it isn't that bad considering the fate of the 787 early tens.
If Airbus can prove a A380 fix with it, it has been very well used in my opinion.
Last edited by CFRPwingALbody on Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Polot
Posts: 9733
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:02 pm

CFRPwingALbody wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
From the cradel to the grave... We have been following MSN 003's history from its birth, it's first revenue-flight and now it's time to say good-bye. Some additional pictures from an article published by aero.de:

Image
Image
Source: https://www.aero.de/news-33227/Erster-A ... rlegt.html

Not only the production of an A380 seems to be a huge challenge, even dismantling an A380 needs some additional efforts.. as one can see from this vehicle under MSN 003's fuselage... :-/


Sorry but AFAIK there are several parts still attatched that can be taken of as spare parts.
To me this parted out aircraft looks ready to try some A380 improvements. EASA AD ...


No one said they were finished parting it out...

Airbus has their own A380 they can use for testing improvements (MSN1). But at this point with production ending and many airlines indicating retirements Airbus is not going to sink a lot of time and money into any significant performance enhancing improvements. The ROI is not there.

Also EASA (and FAA) issues AD to correct problems that may effect airworthiness (quality control issue, cracks, etc), not for optional performance enhancements.
Last edited by Polot on Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CFRPwingALbody
Posts: 303
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:05 pm

Polot, I was thinking about a fleet survival improvement. Do some searching EASA A380 AD.
 
Western727
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Re: Dr. Peters begins scrapping of two ex-SIA A380s

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:31 pm

What a sad tale. I've never been on one, so I'm grateful to be booked in March on EK IAH-DXB, roundtrip. Worth the nonstop since we're taking our boys of ages 14 and 11 with us, even if the passenger window design on the lower level is meh.

I'm hopeful that our selected row 49 (2nd row forward of doors 2L/R) will make it possible to see both engine spinners on either side.
Jack @ AUS

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