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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:02 am

kavok wrote:
Enilria’s weekly OAG thread shows that DTW-HNL has been loaded for January 2020. I mention that because many, myself included, wondered if the route would survive past Summer 2019. Glad to see it is reappearing in the winter.


It was already included in the February and March scheduled loads. That it was added for January is good news; January is historically a slow month for leasiure travel, and typically a great time to score cheap flights, hotels, transfers and discounted activities. That DL is adding service in January, when SLC is scheduled to return to the 333 and WN is launching service from the West Coast, is showing its confidence in the Hawaii market.

I say good, and not great, news because there’s still plenty of time for it to be reversed.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:40 am

flymco753 wrote:
Since it's most likely we'll be waking up to a locked thread tomorrow, thank y'all for teaching me about the Detroit market. I've learned quite a bit and I intend to continue learning about it.


Good morning everyone everything in Detroit is alive and well.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:42 am

compensateme wrote:
kavok wrote:
Enilria’s weekly OAG thread shows that DTW-HNL has been loaded for January 2020. I mention that because many, myself included, wondered if the route would survive past Summer 2019. Glad to see it is reappearing in the winter.


It was already included in the February and March scheduled loads. That it was added for January is good news; January is historically a slow month for leasiure travel, and typically a great time to score cheap flights, hotels, transfers and discounted activities. That DL is adding service in January, when SLC is scheduled to return to the 333 and WN is launching service from the West Coast, is showing its confidence in the Hawaii market.

I say good, and not great, news because there’s still plenty of time for it to be reversed.


I like that fact that it's an A333 that there shows confidence too.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jetlanta
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:48 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
It will be interesting to see what gems the WCAA comes away with from the Hannover meetings.
As a heads up these wont be immediate. The earliest something happens is August for a spring 2020 start.


Understood I suspect that DTW will come out of those meetings with at least two new European routes for summer 2020 and one new carrier anything above that will be a bonus.


Routes events don't typically result in these sort of outcomes, so you are likely to be disappointed. Sometimes carriers and airports will "save" an announcement to be made in conjunction with a Routes event, but that is rare except for the host market.

Thee meetings are 25 minutes long and are never the "full pitch". What they do help with is opening and maintaining the lines of communication. You aren't likely ever to be able to attribute a new route to a Routes Europe meeting, but it is certainly part of the process.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:23 pm

Image
Here's what I learned about the SRQ-DTW market now that family has moved there. It's a mile burning market. Nearly half of the A320 I was on seemed to be mile burners for a winter vacation or burning miles to visit their older families. That explains that this route is strictly VFR and no business. If any expansion is going to happen in this market, it's going to have to come from a low cost carrier. I've attached the LF's for 2018 since data is only available until September of 2018, but once 2019 is available, we can't tell if there's any meaningful growth since DL expanded the route to nearly year round at once per week.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:58 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Image
Here's what I learned about the SRQ-DTW market now that family has moved there. It's a mile burning market. Nearly half of the A320 I was on seemed to be mile burners for a winter vacation or burning miles to visit their older families. That explains that this route is strictly VFR and no business. If any expansion is going to happen in this market, it's going to have to come from a low cost carrier. I've attached the LF's for 2018 since data is only available until September of 2018, but once 2019 is available, we can't tell if there's any meaningful growth since DL expanded the route to nearly year round at once per week.



The more I think about it I think that Allegiant really needs to come in and pick up routes like DTW to SAV/SRQ/VPS and the like because NK is not growing their network out of Detroit when we get new flights it's because they are opening a new station and F9 just isn't that committed to Detroit so Allegiant could fill that void out of DTW very nicely.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:35 pm

klm617 wrote:
As of now you can only compare 2017 to 2018.


That's an interesting claim. So even though 1Q 2019 has already happened I can't compare 1Q2019 with 1Q2018? I'll bet you I can. Let's take a look!

DL, DTW-STL capacity:


1Q2019: 946 flights, 69,823 seats
1Q2018: 820 flights, 69,381 seats

There you have it buddy you can rest easy. DL is increasing both frequencies and capacity between DTW and STL.

klm617 wrote:
His data comes directly from the OAG just like where you get yours so what makes his information less valid than yours ?


The two of us use the same source, but as he lays out in his thread he looks at a very narrow monthly window.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:03 pm

beerbus wrote:
DL operated four daily CRJ's to CVG, and 5x 757 & 1x CR7 to ATL. .


Is this referring to JAX or SRQ?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:04 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
As of now you can only compare 2017 to 2018.


That's an interesting claim. So even though 1Q 2019 has already happened I can't compare 1Q2019 with 1Q2018? I'll bet you I can. Let's take a look!

DL, DTW-STL capacity:


1Q2019: 946 flights, 69,823 seats
1Q2018: 820 flights, 69,381 seats

There you have it buddy you can rest easy. DL is increasing both frequencies and capacity between DTW and STL.

klm617 wrote:
His data comes directly from the OAG just like where you get yours so what makes his information less valid than yours ?


The two of us use the same source, but as he lays out in his thread he looks at a very narrow monthly window.



But let's see 2017 year end results compared to 2018 year end results. Then you have a valid point.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
KarlB737
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
The more I think about it I think that Allegiant really needs to come in and pick up routes like DTW to SAV/SRQ/VPS....


1. Are your listed destinations noted above available from DTW through ATL or to another hub from another airline?
2. Maybe Allegiant doesn't want to go up against Delta.
3. Maybe Allegiant doesn't want to pay the higher cost for gates unlike the portable stairs used at some of their other destinations.
4. Much of Allegiant's destinations from potential DTW service might be seasonal at best.
5. They may figure that FNT fits their cost and geographic structure better.

Since you are significantly interested in their presence at DTW or even DET you should contact them and get their actual reasons.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:47 pm

klm617 wrote:
But let's see 2017 year end results compared to 2018 year end results. Then you have a valid point.


Looks like I have a valid point.

DL, DTW-STL

2017: 3634 Frequencies, 313,536 Seats
2018: 3638 Frequencies, 313,881 Seats

Rest easy. The sky is not falling.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:08 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
But let's see 2017 year end results compared to 2018 year end results. Then you have a valid point.


Looks like I have a valid point.

DL, DTW-STL

2017: 3634 Frequencies, 313,536 Seats
2018: 3638 Frequencies, 313,881 Seats

Rest easy. The sky is not falling.


I never said you didn't. Thank you again for your insight and wisdom my friend it is always appreciated when it is shared in a positive context. By the way no the sky is not falling Detroit it fell a long time ago LOL
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:26 pm

klm617 wrote:
Thank you again for your insight and wisdom my friend it is always appreciated when it is shared in a positive context.


You're welcome - but positivity is in the eye of the beholder - it's subjective. Data is just data.
 
dtw9
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:34 pm

KLM. Have you ever included in your thought process the travel habits of Southeast Michigan? 80 percent of tourisum in Michigan are Michiganders. Boat ownership is 3rd in the country. 5 of the top 12 counties in the country for second home ownership are,you guessed it, in Michigan. Or the fact that Michigan’s population has remained relatively stagnant for the last twenty years at 10 million give or take 100k. When you add all of these up I think Southeast Michigan should be damn happy with the level of air service that we do have. Could we use a budget carrier to Europe,sure we could. WOW showed that at the right price you can stimulate people to take that trip they’ve dreamed of a little sooner then planned. To continue to act like the sky is falling every time there’s a small change in Delta’s flight schedule is crazy.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:13 pm

dtw9 wrote:
KLM. Have you ever included in your thought process the travel habits of Southeast Michigan? 80 percent of tourisum in Michigan are Michiganders. Boat ownership is 3rd in the country. 5 of the top 12 counties in the country for second home ownership are,you guessed it, in Michigan. Or the fact that Michigan’s population has remained relatively stagnant for the last twenty years at 10 million give or take 100k. When you add all of these up I think Southeast Michigan should be damn happy with the level of air service that we do have. Could we use a budget carrier to Europe,sure we could. WOW showed that at the right price you can stimulate people to take that trip they’ve dreamed of a little sooner then planned. To continue to act like the sky is falling every time there’s a small change in Delta’s flight schedule is crazy.


You illustrate my point perfectly what good is the level of service Delta operates here if it's unaffordable to the middle class average working person so they hop in their car and go up north and again WOW proved that there is a market to be served so why not try to get that void filled at DTW. The thing is when there is growth everywhere in commercial aviation and yet a basic flat line when it comes to DTW that's a problem people don't see it now but with ever pair of dots that are connected to other hubs DTW becomes less relevant and service get's cut and we have seen that now in about 30 markets out of Detroit. That's less dollars for the airport for every passenger that is lost to another hub and most recently Delta is reducing it's presence in the upper Midwest. You guys can believe what you want but DTW is not keeping pace with the air traffic growth in the USA and as a major hub it should be growing at a better rate.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:18 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Thank you again for your insight and wisdom my friend it is always appreciated when it is shared in a positive context.


You're welcome - but positivity is in the eye of the beholder - it's subjective. Data is just data.


Again data can be brought into the picture to serve ones purpose you can bring data into the conversation that supports positivity in this market that choice is up to you what data you chose to present. We can take the WOW data and prove that their loads were better than some stations FI currently serves meaning FI should be in Detroit. If you looked at the O/D for DTW-KEF before WOW entered and after they stimulated the market you get a whole different picture and the same will be true for DUB you will see should EI have the cohones to start Detroit in 2020. Data is just as subjective as positivity we can make it anything we want
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw9
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:37 pm

klm617 wrote:
dtw9 wrote:
KLM. Have you ever included in your thought process the travel habits of Southeast Michigan? 80 percent of tourisum in Michigan are Michiganders. Boat ownership is 3rd in the country. 5 of the top 12 counties in the country for second home ownership are,you guessed it, in Michigan. Or the fact that Michigan’s population has remained relatively stagnant for the last twenty years at 10 million give or take 100k. When you add all of these up I think Southeast Michigan should be damn happy with the level of air service that we do have. Could we use a budget carrier to Europe,sure we could. WOW showed that at the right price you can stimulate people to take that trip they’ve dreamed of a little sooner then planned. To continue to act like the sky is falling every time there’s a small change in Delta’s flight schedule is crazy.


You illustrate my point perfectly what good is the level of service Delta operates here if it's unaffordable to the middle class average working person so they hop in their car and go up north and again WOW proved that there is a market to be served so why not try to get that void filled at DTW. The thing is when there is growth everywhere in commercial aviation and yet a basic flat line when it comes to DTW that's a problem people don't see it now but with ever pair of dots that are connected to other hubs DTW becomes less relevant and service get's cut and we have seen that now in about 30 markets out of Detroit. That's less dollars for the airport for every passenger that is lost to another hub and most recently Delta is reducing it's presence in the upper Midwest. You guys can believe what you want but DTW is not keeping pace with the air traffic growth in the USA and as a major hub it should be growing at a better rate.



Until you can convince people to give up their second homes up north and keep Mama and the kids home all summer or sell the family boat,you’re going to just have to accept the level of air service we have. When it’s a choice of spending 3 months in the summer up at the cottage or taking a week or two long trip to Europe dragging pain in the butt kids, which one do you think is going to win out every time. Been that way all of my 64 years in Michigan
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:36 pm

dtw9 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
dtw9 wrote:
KLM. Have you ever included in your thought process the travel habits of Southeast Michigan? 80 percent of tourisum in Michigan are Michiganders. Boat ownership is 3rd in the country. 5 of the top 12 counties in the country for second home ownership are,you guessed it, in Michigan. Or the fact that Michigan’s population has remained relatively stagnant for the last twenty years at 10 million give or take 100k. When you add all of these up I think Southeast Michigan should be damn happy with the level of air service that we do have. Could we use a budget carrier to Europe,sure we could. WOW showed that at the right price you can stimulate people to take that trip they’ve dreamed of a little sooner then planned. To continue to act like the sky is falling every time there’s a small change in Delta’s flight schedule is crazy.


You illustrate my point perfectly what good is the level of service Delta operates here if it's unaffordable to the middle class average working person so they hop in their car and go up north and again WOW proved that there is a market to be served so why not try to get that void filled at DTW. The thing is when there is growth everywhere in commercial aviation and yet a basic flat line when it comes to DTW that's a problem people don't see it now but with ever pair of dots that are connected to other hubs DTW becomes less relevant and service get's cut and we have seen that now in about 30 markets out of Detroit. That's less dollars for the airport for every passenger that is lost to another hub and most recently Delta is reducing it's presence in the upper Midwest. You guys can believe what you want but DTW is not keeping pace with the air traffic growth in the USA and as a major hub it should be growing at a better rate.



Until you can convince people to give up their second homes up north and keep Mama and the kids home all summer or sell the family boat,you’re going to just have to accept the level of air service we have. When it’s a choice of spending 3 months in the summer up at the cottage or taking a week or two long trip to Europe dragging pain in the butt kids, which one do you think is going to win out every time. Been that way all of my 64 years in Michigan


Well I'll tell you I have a cottage up north and I'm always looking to go to Europe on a budget. People who have cottages up north have the ability to take a week long trip to Europe when they can get back and forth for $700 to $800 round trip rather than the $1500 $2000 going rate for the summer months out of Detroit. Discount Euro service works out of every major US market and it has proven to work out of Detroit now it's up to the airport to get that service back. The airport even stated that it is looking for a replacement carrier for DTW-KEF let's see who much they mean that. DUB is the same because it can be had at reasonable prices for a vacation and it's high on most people's travel lists. It hasn't been that way for 64 years during the summer in the 70's, 80's and the 90's Detroit had summer flights to most European cities. Up until the late 2000's Detroit had more diversity to Europe than it has now. DTW had KL, AF, LH , BA, RJ and NW. Now we are down to RJ, DL, AF and LH almost half. It's only been in the last 10 years or so that Detroit is going backwards.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:42 pm

dtw9 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
dtw9 wrote:
KLM. Have you ever included in your thought process the travel habits of Southeast Michigan? 80 percent of tourisum in Michigan are Michiganders. Boat ownership is 3rd in the country. 5 of the top 12 counties in the country for second home ownership are,you guessed it, in Michigan. Or the fact that Michigan’s population has remained relatively stagnant for the last twenty years at 10 million give or take 100k. When you add all of these up I think Southeast Michigan should be damn happy with the level of air service that we do have. Could we use a budget carrier to Europe,sure we could. WOW showed that at the right price you can stimulate people to take that trip they’ve dreamed of a little sooner then planned. To continue to act like the sky is falling every time there’s a small change in Delta’s flight schedule is crazy.


You illustrate my point perfectly what good is the level of service Delta operates here if it's unaffordable to the middle class average working person so they hop in their car and go up north and again WOW proved that there is a market to be served so why not try to get that void filled at DTW. The thing is when there is growth everywhere in commercial aviation and yet a basic flat line when it comes to DTW that's a problem people don't see it now but with ever pair of dots that are connected to other hubs DTW becomes less relevant and service get's cut and we have seen that now in about 30 markets out of Detroit. That's less dollars for the airport for every passenger that is lost to another hub and most recently Delta is reducing it's presence in the upper Midwest. You guys can believe what you want but DTW is not keeping pace with the air traffic growth in the USA and as a major hub it should be growing at a better rate.



Until you can convince people to give up their second homes up north and keep Mama and the kids home all summer or sell the family boat,you’re going to just have to accept the level of air service we have. When it’s a choice of spending 3 months in the summer up at the cottage or taking a week or two long trip to Europe dragging pain in the butt kids, which one do you think is going to win out every time. Been that way all of my 64 years in Michigan


WOW did exactly that convinced people to take a trip to Europe.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:14 am

Instead of rehashing the same weekly debates and diatribes, here are my updates in and out of DTW over the past 48 hours:

- Flew into the North Terminal Saturday night for the first time in over a year, the baggage claim was a war-zone littered with empty wheelchairs, tubs, carts, and unclaimed luggage.
- The Terminal-to-Terminal shuttle has pretty lackluster timing/spacing, particularly later in evening, despite that being the peak arrivals period over at the North Terminal (may have been attributed to the MSU game), I wanted almost 30 minutes and then 2 showed-up back-to-back. Only reason I parked at the McNamera garage going out was since I was coming in hot and didn't want to miss my flight so I paid the $24/day instead of off-site.

- On a Monday morning, again coming in super-hot, thanks to having to return home since I had left behind my work phone, and then catching traffic on I-96, I pulled into the McNamera garage at 7:45am for an 8:22am flight (37 minutes) parked, cleared TSA Pre-Check, and hiked down to A7 and got on-board at about 8:05am and still had overhead bin space on the 717. Sometimes I impress myself with stunts like that. That is something thats not possible on Monday mornings at most major airports.

- This morning again, 7 717s on the lower A gates for the ~8:30am departure bank, plus 1 taxing in while we taxied out, and another 717 being towed to the gate. 9 717s on the ground at the same time this morning. Plus 2 MD-90s on the lower A gates, it looked like good ole NW DC-9 heaven days with all the T-tails.

- LC Smith Concourse demolition continues; Concourse B is completely down and they are in-process of removing debris from the site. Concourse A rotunda is down, but the A corridor remains for now, plus the terminal.

- Earth-moving work and grading has begun at the north end of Concourse D/North Terminal for the additional hardstands and build out of the ramp area to where the 3 additional gates will eventually be.

Unrelated to DTW, but worth nothing:
- As much as the DL 739s get hated on, they are far better seats/interiors/PTVS/wifi than UA's 739s. The only thing better is the mid-cabin lav on the UA 739
- The first class seat on UA 739 was terrible, no PTVS, the wifi didn't work most of the flight and was stupidly slow when it did,
- Flew UAX Trans-State ERJ last week, and it was the most ragged interior I've ever flown on, it was worse than G7's CR7s before they redid those interiors
- DEN has the most rinky-dink operation which amounts to basically storage containers bolted on to the terminal. Customers standing out on the ramp waiting for plane side bags, climbing fire-escape like flights of stairs; Night and day versus UAX operations and their hubs at DEN, IAD, ORD versus DCI operations at their core hubs in DTW, MSP, ATL where they actually have standarized and mainline-like terminal experiences.
 
beerbus
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:30 pm

727LOVER wrote:
beerbus wrote:
DL operated four daily CRJ's to CVG, and 5x 757 & 1x CR7 to ATL. .


Is this referring to JAX or SRQ?



SRQ

Apologies for not providing more detail
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:20 pm

Why does UA love using EJets at DTW? Peer airports are getting A320's & 737's to IAD & IAH yet it seems DTW gets stuck with all of the RJ's.

Meanwhile, AA seems to be moving upward. Seems like not too long ago CLT was almost all RJ but now they've re-introduced the A321 to both CLT & PHX as well as larger EJets to DCA.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:01 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Why does UA love using EJets at DTW? Peer airports are getting A320's & 737's to IAD & IAH yet it seems DTW gets stuck with all of the RJ's.

Meanwhile, AA seems to be moving upward. Seems like not too long ago CLT was almost all RJ but now they've re-introduced the A321 to both CLT & PHX as well as larger EJets to DCA.



The same holds true for Delta and Texas until the A220 came on line there were very few mainline aircraft operating between DTW and DFW and IAH. I can not believe that these two major cities in Texas do not warrant full mainline service.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:51 pm

What peer airports are you comparing against?

Flights between competitor hubs often since this dynamic since point of sale strength and premium traffic heavily skews toward the respective hub.

Better than the old COEx days which saw a lot of ERJs on DTW-IAH
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:53 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
What peer airports are you comparing against?

Flights between competitor hubs often since this dynamic since point of sale strength and premium traffic heavily skews toward the respective hub.

Better than the old COEx days which saw a lot of ERJs on DTW-IAH
I suppose the ones without a fortress hub, which kind of makes sense. To me, IAH isn't making sense anymore. DL was going to introduce the 221 on the route but scrapped plans for smaller CR9 aircraft and is sending those frames now to EWR. I wonder what differentiates EWR & IAH where they'd switch the aircraft. Now that I've learned about the network, I'm shifting focus to capacity planning.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:11 pm

Could be a combination of many factors but one element could be that EWR has the ability to be crewed out of the NYC A220 pilot base.
Could be capacity reasons
Could be aircraft utilization reasons, and a DTW-IAH rotation eats-up almost 8 hours of block time.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:50 pm

Also an interesting note, looks like F9 added the A321 to DEN on Friday's this summer. It appears that the RDU flight on Friday is a turn rather than an RDU-DEN with a tag in DTW.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:43 pm

AM delays the launch of GDL & SLP until June, most likely due to MAX groundings on other routes.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:01 pm

FYI - the tram is out of service for a few more weeks until early May due to the need to do some incremental software updates.
When I arrived last night at 2:30am they were doing testing runs on the tracks.

Last night, there were some very delayed flights operating very late into the night due to the Upper Midwest blizzard and MSP being down for periods of time yesterday.
There are numerous flights that typically route MSP-XXX-DTW throughout the day that had aircraft very delayed.

717 flights from DFW, AUS arrived after 3am.
717 flight departed to MCI at 2:30am
A whole bunch of the stuff that typically arrives between 8-9pm arrived after midnight.

Both of the late flights in from ATL were delayed over 3 hours. My flight that normally arrives at 11:30pm arrived at 2:30am, but at least we arrived at A38 instead of A75 (that used to be oh so typical). However, in typical fashion, the "last chance" restrooms right in the atrium right behind security where closed for cleaning.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:55 pm

Looks like WS is reducing YQG-YYC to only 4 weekly.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:50 pm

DTW looks to have gotten some diversions yesterday.

This morning there was an LH 744 parked over by the old Signature ramp on the east side of the field and an Austrian 777 parked on a hard stand by the old smith terminal.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DTW looks to have gotten some diversions yesterday.

This morning there was an LH 744 parked over by the old Signature ramp on the east side of the field and an Austrian 777 parked on a hard stand by the old smith terminal.

Not sure about the LH flight, I thought that was an A359, but the OS flight from VIE had to RON due to crew over hours.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:31 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DTW looks to have gotten some diversions yesterday.

This morning there was an LH 744 parked over by the old Signature ramp on the east side of the field and an Austrian 777 parked on a hard stand by the old smith terminal.


I believe that was a 748 not a 744 but I could be wrong.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:33 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DTW looks to have gotten some diversions yesterday.

This morning there was an LH 744 parked over by the old Signature ramp on the east side of the field and an Austrian 777 parked on a hard stand by the old smith terminal.

Not sure about the LH flight, I thought that was an A359, but the OS flight from VIE had to RON due to crew over hours.



There were 2 LH arrivals a 748 and a 359 one from FRA and one from MUC
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:08 pm

Wonder if DL would ever consider making one of the SkyClubs with a deck that would sit above either A18 or A68.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:16 pm

I'm going to go with not ever going to happen, due to whole variety of logistical, security, and infrastructure related issues.
Not to mention, the weather in DTW is not well suited for such 6 months out of the year.

That said, there is semi-credible rumors of an expansion to the main center A club, in the sense that they are supposedly going to be opening an "annex" on the north side of the atrium up in the space where the LH club was located when they were in the McNamera terminal. That said, nothing officially announced but rumors out there circulating from people who have spoken with Skyclub employees.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:35 pm

No big deal, would've been neat. I've noticed the tram is a lot quieter with the new updates.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:33 am

flymco753 wrote:
No big deal, would've been neat. I've noticed the tram is a lot quieter with the new updates.


That sucks. It’s not the same without the humming/whooshing of the tram... and the monkey noises... Detroit, Michigan is in the Eastern Time Zone...

- - -

To those who continually whine about “all the DTW threads:”. You’re mistaking DTW for DFW...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:50 am

compensateme wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
No big deal, would've been neat. I've noticed the tram is a lot quieter with the new updates.


That sucks. It’s not the same without the humming/whooshing of the tram... and the monkey noises... Detroit, Michigan is in the Eastern Time Zone...

- - -

To those who continually whine about “all the DTW threads:”. You’re mistaking DTW for DFW...
They changed the voice announcements throughout the terminal too?
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:56 am

The tram sounds the same to me, just quieter since I assume they've got all the wire-rope sheaves back in alignment and balanced again.

I miss the birds flying through the terminal
Also all the graffiti stones that used be in the planters.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:03 am

With the tram not operating, one thing I won't miss when its back again is all the moving sidewalk clutter that makes it difficult to navigate when in a hurry.

Not just a DTW-specific thing, but I am amazed by who so many people in airports move without a sense or purpose, just generally stand in the egress of people, make aburpt dead stops, and/or buried in their phone.

I noticed the moving walkways in MSP appear to be a tad bit wider than DTW, and that additional width makes it easier to pass loafing pedestrians. The additional width is helpful, particularly when pulling a rollerboard.

Sometimes its faster to walk and avoid the moving sidewalk, but that depends if you come across a gate thats boarding and the gate lice of spilled over and blocked the corridor - flights to LAX, LAS, and ORD seem to be the worst offenders.
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:59 am

klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Very much so just as the customers from the Detroit area don't want to have to transfer at Atlanta to get to SRQ and VPS

They don’t have to transfer at ATL to get to SRQ. And how many fly to VPS?

Airlines fly routes which they think will make them money. It’s probably good that you don’t own an airline. You’d lose your shirt trying to fly from DTW to every airport in the world. :lol:


No if I owned an airline I'd fly routes that no one else flies out of Detroit that are viable because my competitor is choking of capacity just to screw the customer.


if you owned an airline, I GUARANTEE we'd have some entertaining new forum topics in here :smile:
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:02 am

Cross-posting from FSDan's Delta Summer 2019 thread, to enable a DTW-focused discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&p=21288623#p21288623

Here is some summary of the data base on departures:

Type: 2014 2018 2019
ERJ 37 0 0
CR2 172 93 86
CR7 43 64 52
E70 1 6 6
E75 11 4 0
CR9 45 90 113
717 18 44 33
221 0 0 7
73G 0 0 0
319 39 21 28
M88 28 0 0
M90 13 21 0
320 21 14 24
738 10 12 2
739 9 32 28
321 0 11 38
752 19 20 21
753 1 7 6
763 8 3 6
764 2 0 1
332 0 2 2
333 4 4 3
772 3 0 0
77L 3 0 0
359 0 5 5
744 2 0 0
TOTAL 489 453 461

By relative gauge / class - since DL tends to schedule some fleet types relatively interchangably based on gauge / capacity:

Class 2014 2018 2019
50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ) 209 93 86
2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75) 100 164 171
Small Narrowbody ~120 seat (73G, 717, 319, 221) 57 65 68
Medium Narrowbody ~150 seat (320, 738, M88, M90) 72 47 26
Large Narrowbody >180 seat (321, 739, 752, 753) 29 70 93
Widebody (332, 333, 359, 744, 777, 77L) 22 14 17
Total 489 453 461
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:10 am

Notable changes:

CRJ relatively similar to last year, but down significantly since 2014
CR9 increased significantly
E75s out for Summer 2019 (mostly replaced by C-Series 221)
717 despite what I thought appeared to be up, is actually down compared to last summer (idk maybe they are heavily clustered on specific departure banks)
M90 out effective early-June, net 21 less MD-90 but more than offset by 321 increases
319/320 is up for Summer 2019, primarily offsetting the M90 removal to ATL, but still down from several years ago
738 down and almost out
739 similar
321 up 27 departures since last summer -> pretty significant upgauging into this fleet type
757 stable

The biggest take-away; fairly significant upgauging for Summer 2019 with fewer medium sized narrowbodies (150 seaters) and significant increase in large narrowbodies (180+ seaters) in line with DL's systemwide trend of increasing seats per departure.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:09 am

More routes than ever before are seeing the 717, however, several formerly high volume 717 routes have been upgauged. For example, a couple falls ago, LGA, EWR, JFK, DCA and MSY accounted for a total of 20 717 departures. This fall, zero. LGA will operate with 320 & 321, DCA will be all 321, MSY all 320 and the 221 (and CR9) replace the 717 to EWR & JFK.

NW operated DCA 9x daily throughout the 2000s, mostly on DC-9 equipment. Post-merger, there was a time period in which DL flew the route primarily with CRJ, CR7 and CR9 equipment. Glad to see it all-321, even if it was cut to 5x daily.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:57 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Cross-posting from FSDan's Delta Summer 2019 thread, to enable a DTW-focused discussion:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p21288623

Here is some summary of the data base on departures:

Type: 2014 2018 2019
ERJ 37 0 0
CR2 172 93 86
CR7 43 64 52
E70 1 6 6
E75 11 4 0
CR9 45 90 113
717 18 44 33
221 0 0 7
73G 0 0 0
319 39 21 28
M88 28 0 0
M90 13 21 0
320 21 14 24
738 10 12 2
739 9 32 28
321 0 11 38
752 19 20 21
753 1 7 6
763 8 3 6
764 2 0 1
332 0 2 2
333 4 4 3
772 3 0 0
77L 3 0 0
359 0 5 5
744 2 0 0
TOTAL 489 453 461

By relative gauge / class - since DL tends to schedule some fleet types relatively interchangably based on gauge / capacity:

Class 2014 2018 2019
50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ) 209 93 86
2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75) 100 164 171
Small Narrowbody ~120 seat (73G, 717, 319, 221) 57 65 68
Medium Narrowbody ~150 seat (320, 738, M88, M90) 72 47 26
Large Narrowbody >180 seat (321, 739, 752, 753) 29 70 93
Widebody (332, 333, 359, 744, 777, 77L) 22 14 17
Total 489 453 461



Not really that bad for the past 3 summers but still way down from the days when DTW was a true hub. I think Delta is gearing DTW more as a O/D than a connecting hub as it continues to reduce the amount of connectivity it gives customers out of Detroit. Just about every market out of ATL is hourly while as it was pointed out that DTW-DCA is only 5 daily like it was back in the day of no hubs when DTW-DCA was operated by UA and NW. I still see the trend of moving DTW more away from it's hub status which say a lot about the Detroit market that it can support almost 500 departures a day with that mindset going forward. Again I'm going to harp on the but the airport has to move away from Delta if it ever wants to grow here and the longer it allows Delta not to be challenged the harder it's going to be to create and environment for competitors to come in and serve the Detroit market. Bringing in airlines that compete with Delta is good for customer and good for the airport. There is a lot of unserved potential here for ULCC and LCC carriers to come in and the WCAA is not doing very well at attracting those types of carriers here.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:58 am

compensateme wrote:
More routes than ever before are seeing the 717, however, several formerly high volume 717 routes have been upgauged. For example, a couple falls ago, LGA, EWR, JFK, DCA and MSY accounted for a total of 20 717 departures. This fall, zero. LGA will operate with 320 & 321, DCA will be all 321, MSY all 320 and the 221 (and CR9) replace the 717 to EWR & JFK.

NW operated DCA 9x daily throughout the 2000s, mostly on DC-9 equipment. Post-merger, there was a time period in which DL flew the route primarily with CRJ, CR7 and CR9 equipment. Glad to see it all-321, even if it was cut to 5x daily.



This is a hub airport and 5 daily to DCA is a joke.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:26 pm

#1 - the data displayed is 2014, 2018, 2019. So you can see the 5 year change and 1 year change.

#2 - DTW-DCA on July 15th, 2019, the date that FSDan pulled the data is at 7x - (6x 319, 1x 321).
I haven't looked too closely, perhaps its a day of the week thing or select weeks, but for reference Monday Oct 21, 2019 is showing DTW-DCA at 6x (319, 320, 4x 321).

The whole reason behind this is that DCA is slot constrained and net result of the whole LGA slot swap. To start the BOS service, they had to pull the DCA slots from somewhere and upgauging is on of the levers they can pull.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 86
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:33 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
#1 - the data displayed is 2014, 2018, 2019. So you can see the 5 year change and 1 year change.

#2 - DTW-DCA on July 15th, 2019, the date that FSDan pulled the data is at 7x - (6x 319, 1x 321).
I haven't looked too closely, perhaps its a day of the week thing or select weeks, but for reference Monday Oct 21, 2019 is showing DTW-DCA at 6x (319, 320, 4x 321).

The whole reason behind this is that DCA is slot constrained and net result of the whole LGA slot swap. To start the BOS service, they had to pull the DCA slots from somewhere and upgauging is on of the levers they can pull.


Thanks for posting this. I looked and found the same thing you did. Also, people forget that AA also offers N/S flights from DTW-DCA, so DL's not the only one flying this route.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:39 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
#1 - the data displayed is 2014, 2018, 2019. So you can see the 5 year change and 1 year change.

#2 - DTW-DCA on July 15th, 2019, the date that FSDan pulled the data is at 7x - (6x 319, 1x 321).
I haven't looked too closely, perhaps its a day of the week thing or select weeks, but for reference Monday Oct 21, 2019 is showing DTW-DCA at 6x (319, 320, 4x 321).

The whole reason behind this is that DCA is slot constrained and net result of the whole LGA slot swap. To start the BOS service, they had to pull the DCA slots from somewhere and upgauging is on of the levers they can pull.


Thanks for posting this. I looked and found the same thing you did. Also, people forget that AA also offers N/S flights from DTW-DCA, so DL's not the only one flying this route.



Yes but USAir also continually operated DTW-DCA alongside NW. Again DTW has to take the hit to support something else.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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