KarlB737
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:18 pm

klm617 wrote:
Detroit deserves more than Delta Airlines..


OK since ORD has two major airlines present at that hub what other airline might set up shop at DTW IF additional concourses were established once the Smith Terminal is removed and replaced with additional concourse and gate capacity. Notice I said IF.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:10 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Detroit deserves more than Delta Airlines..


OK since ORD has two major airlines present at that hub what other airline might set up shop at DTW IF additional concourses were established once the Smith Terminal is removed and replaced with additional concourse and gate capacity. Notice I said IF.


For starters EI and EK. Getting NK to have a deeper commitment to Detroit like MSP has with SY.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:18 am

Since B6 cut FLL, the Morning BOS flight now leaves out of D17 vs. D18 in the morning. (FLL used to leave out of 17 with BOS at 18). Viva has a RON on Saturday night and uses D18 for RON space. With Sunwing starting service next week, (x6 weekly) I will have to see if they’ve also will use D18 as RON space. Plenty of Spirit here, and the summer we will see around 35 flights a day. I’ve noticed that prices have skyrocketed on HNL as well. From below 400 to over 800.
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:20 am

On the wiki page it says that apple vacations serves CZM and Freeport, but that’s not true. As of now they only serve MBJ and PUJ, with Viva serving CUN once weekly. Sun Country does 1-2 charters a week mostly to GPT, with Swift doing another flight to ACY.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:55 pm

DL needs to give up on this HNL experiment. Add SJO or ANC, maybe even expand PUJ to daily. I feel like those would've been more punctual.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:53 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL needs to give up on this HNL experiment. Add SJO or ANC, maybe even expand PUJ to daily. I feel like those would've been more punctual.


I'm hind sight it is a very odd add for Detroit let's see if it makes it out of September. One would have that that year round GRU would have created better revenue than DTW-HNL. But let's face it DL route planners know more than us but ANC or MAN on a 757 might have been a better experiment.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:25 pm

So back in 2013 the Boston India traffic was o/d 199 passengers a day and in 2015 the Detroit India traffic was 140 passengers each day . With that being said how does Boston India get 3 ME3 flights a day but yet Detroit can't get a 5 weekly flight from one of the ME3 carriers. Not to mention those numbers have probably grown by now to. I'm telling you guys this airport needs an effective marketing firm to handle getting new options and additional traffic into DTW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:50 pm

"Feeder stations don't deserve non-stops" is a global phenomenon by hub dwellers enjoying the feed. Every effort will be made that the feed is not lost. Sleepy WCAA doesn't help either.

There is a lesson WCAA can learn by studying VGA-SIN route viability gap funding. An Indian state underwriting $5 Million/year for a 2 weekly VGA-SIN service because no one wants to start that route and traffic was fed to other hubs. That state paid $0 in subsidy since the service started because the loads exceeded anyone's expectation. I don't think any US airport offered $5 Million/year incentive to any carrier to start a route, even a daily ULH route. Risk has its own rewards.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:54 pm

klm617 wrote:
So back in 2013 the Boston India traffic was o/d 199 passengers a day and in 2015 the Detroit India traffic was 140 passengers each day . With that being said how does Boston India get 3 ME3 flights a day but yet Detroit can't get a 5 weekly flight from one of the ME3 carriers. Not to mention those numbers have probably grown by now to. I'm telling you guys this airport needs an effective marketing firm to handle getting new options and additional traffic into DTW.


For the airport to use taxpayer dollars to pay a marketing firm to try and lure the ME3 into serving DTW nonstop would be a waste of public funds.

Again, all the marketing in the world isn't going to convince a carrier to invest in a route if their modeling shows them that there are superior alternatives for that investment.

Dating all the way back to 2012 the DTW Airport Authority was collecting signatures to try and woo Emirates into serving DTW. It didn't work. Also in 2012, Al-Baker said that QR would serve DTW. They didn't. It's clear based on those decisions that the modeling simply didn't imply that the route was the best choice for an add.

Times, economies, and airline leadership all change; and it's still not far-fetched to think that an ME3 carrier might take a stab at Detroit given changing circumstances. What won't change the modeling or its interpretation, however, is a marketing campaign paid for by the taxpayers.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:12 am

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
So back in 2013 the Boston India traffic was o/d 199 passengers a day and in 2015 the Detroit India traffic was 140 passengers each day . With that being said how does Boston India get 3 ME3 flights a day but yet Detroit can't get a 5 weekly flight from one of the ME3 carriers. Not to mention those numbers have probably grown by now to. I'm telling you guys this airport needs an effective marketing firm to handle getting new options and additional traffic into DTW.


For the airport to use taxpayer dollars to pay a marketing firm to try and lure the ME3 into serving DTW nonstop would be a waste of public funds.

Again, all the marketing in the world isn't going to convince a carrier to invest in a route if their modeling shows them that there are superior alternatives for that investment.

Dating all the way back to 2012 the DTW Airport Authority was collecting signatures to try and woo Emirates into serving DTW. It didn't work. Also in 2012, Al-Baker said that QR would serve DTW. They didn't. It's clear based on those decisions that the modeling simply didn't imply that the route was the best choice for an add.

Times, economies, and airline leadership all change; and it's still not far-fetched to think that an ME3 carrier might take a stab at Detroit given changing circumstances. What won't change the modeling or its interpretation, however, is a marketing campaign paid for by the taxpayers.


Interesting snippet from this article that even Joe agrees with me an airport has to market itself effectively and airlines respond to that marketing. But again it's seven years later and nothing out of the airport about their ambitions to land an ME3 carrier strange don't you think him saying these kinds of things need to be done yet the airport is public about nothing since the 2012 petition mums the word out of the WCAA.

In an interview to Detroit Free Press, Joe Cambron, director of air service development, said: "We've actually had meetings with the airlines already to talk to them about the possibility of service, but obviously I'd rather have a large number of people sign the petition."
He added: “These days, routes are not set up just based on backroom discussions. Airlines like to see people responding to online petitions.”
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FA9295
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:34 am

WOW is closing all of their U.S. stations except for 4 of them, and it looks like DTW is safe for now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 573229002/
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:55 am

FA9295 wrote:
WOW is closing all of their U.S. stations except for 4 of them, and it looks like DTW is safe for now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 573229002/


I can't even begin to tell you how shocked I am but pleased that Detroit made the cut. So what is it that WOW Air sees in Detroit that all of a.net and commercial aviation doesn't by not even giving Detroit a chance when it comes to adding to their networks. Yet we beat out the likes of ORD and other international heavy weights when it comes to attracting new service. My guess on ORD would be the congestion their and the difficulty of doing one day turns in a timely matter to stay on schedule. I suspect that Ann Arbor and Lansing contribute a lot to the WOW loads.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:17 am

FA9295 wrote:
WOW is closing all of their U.S. stations except for 4 of them, and it looks like DTW is safe for now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 573229002/


In the article WOW indicates some of the markets it cut performed well last summer, but a reduction in fleet size necessitated the cuts. One can conclude that DTW was likely one of WOW’s top six performing routes (along with YYZ, YUL, EWR, BOS and BWI). That’s good news, and not entirely surprising when you consider that DTW was the largest Atlantic market without low cost competition.
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winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
WOW is closing all of their U.S. stations except for 4 of them, and it looks like DTW is safe for now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 573229002/


I can't even begin to tell you how shocked I am but pleased that Detroit made the cut. So what is it that WOW Air sees in Detroit that all of a.net and commercial aviation doesn't by not even giving Detroit a chance when it comes to adding to their networks. Yet we beat out the likes of ORD and other international heavy weights when it comes to attracting new service. My guess on ORD would be the congestion their and the difficulty of doing one day turns in a timely matter to stay on schedule. I suspect that Ann Arbor and Lansing contribute a lot to the WOW loads.


compensateme wrote:
In the article WOW indicates some of the markets it cut performed well last summer, but a reduction in fleet size necessitated the cuts. One can conclude that DTW was likely one of WOW’s top six performing routes (along with YYZ, YUL, EWR, BOS and BWI). That’s good news, and not entirely surprising when you consider that DTW was the largest Atlantic market without low cost competition.


It's probably not a coincidence that the four remaining WW routes to the US are the four shortest lengths of haul. As alluded to, these are likely the four routes that allow them to make timely single day turns
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:36 pm

NK adds a daily RDU flight. Here's a summary of flights for a random Friday in June:

BOS 1x A320, LGA 2x A320, PHL 1x A320, BWI 1x A319, RDU 1x A320, ATL 3x (2) A320 (1) A319, MYR 1x A320, JAX 1x A320, MCO 3x (2) A320 (1) A321, TPA 1x A320, RSW 1x A319, FLL 2x A321, MSY 1x A320, IAH 1x A321, MCI 1x A320, MSP 1x A320, DFW 2x A319, AUS 1x A320, DEN 1x A321, LAS 3x (2) A320 (1) A321, SAN 1x A320, LAX 2x A320, OAK 1x A320, SEA 1x A320
= 34

Saturday only to CUN using an A319, which is subtracted from one of the 3 ATL flights.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:02 pm

What is F9 and now NKs schedule going to be for RDU?

I know DL is at 4x all mainline on RDU for summer 2019 but wouldn’t be surprised to see them add a 5th flight. Frequency used to be as high as 6 per day but that was when it was mostly RJs
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:28 pm

Using Friday Jun 21 as an example, lets do the outbound RDU flights.

DTW-RDU:
F9 9:10PM-11:02PM 4x weekly (M, W, F, S) A320
NK 10:20AM-12:00PM Daily A319 < (aircraft sits for a while, maybe it'll do BDL)
DL 7:31AM-9:12AM A319
DL 10:15AM-12:04PM 717
DL 3:15PM-5:08PM 717
DL 8:20PM-8:03PM A320

RDU-DTW:
F9 6:00AM-8:01AM 4x weekly (M, W, F, S) A320
NK 6:00am- 7:35AM Daily A319
DL 6:00AM-7:49AM A320
DL 9:52AM-11:40AM A319
DL 12:45PM-2:36PM 717
DL 5:47PM-7:40PM 717
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:39 pm

Well I wouldn’t now be surprised to see DL put some 739 / 321s on to RDU now, or at the very least up gauge 319/717 to 150 seaters 320/738/M90
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:59 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
WOW is closing all of their U.S. stations except for 4 of them, and it looks like DTW is safe for now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 573229002/


I can't even begin to tell you how shocked I am but pleased that Detroit made the cut. So what is it that WOW Air sees in Detroit that all of a.net and commercial aviation doesn't by not even giving Detroit a chance when it comes to adding to their networks. Yet we beat out the likes of ORD and other international heavy weights when it comes to attracting new service. My guess on ORD would be the congestion their and the difficulty of doing one day turns in a timely matter to stay on schedule. I suspect that Ann Arbor and Lansing contribute a lot to the WOW loads.


compensateme wrote:
In the article WOW indicates some of the markets it cut performed well last summer, but a reduction in fleet size necessitated the cuts. One can conclude that DTW was likely one of WOW’s top six performing routes (along with YYZ, YUL, EWR, BOS and BWI). That’s good news, and not entirely surprising when you consider that DTW was the largest Atlantic market without low cost competition.


It's probably not a coincidence that the four remaining WW routes to the US are the four shortest lengths of haul. As alluded to, these are likely the four routes that allow them to make timely single day turns


Uh, DTW wasn’t blocked less than CVG, CLE, PIT of JFK (there may be others I’m missing). PIT even came with an incentive package WOW relinquished.

Try again.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:02 pm

compensateme wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:

I can't even begin to tell you how shocked I am but pleased that Detroit made the cut. So what is it that WOW Air sees in Detroit that all of a.net and commercial aviation doesn't by not even giving Detroit a chance when it comes to adding to their networks. Yet we beat out the likes of ORD and other international heavy weights when it comes to attracting new service. My guess on ORD would be the congestion their and the difficulty of doing one day turns in a timely matter to stay on schedule. I suspect that Ann Arbor and Lansing contribute a lot to the WOW loads.


compensateme wrote:
In the article WOW indicates some of the markets it cut performed well last summer, but a reduction in fleet size necessitated the cuts. One can conclude that DTW was likely one of WOW’s top six performing routes (along with YYZ, YUL, EWR, BOS and BWI). That’s good news, and not entirely surprising when you consider that DTW was the largest Atlantic market without low cost competition.


It's probably not a coincidence that the four remaining WW routes to the US are the four shortest lengths of haul. As alluded to, these are likely the four routes that allow them to make timely single day turns


Uh, DTW wasn’t blocked less than CVG, CLE, PIT of JFK (there may be others I’m missing). PIT even came with an incentive package WOW relinquished.

Try again.


My mistake on JFK, but you're blatantly incorrect re: CVG, CLE, and PIT per the schedule.

WW US Destination block times from KEF per OAG:

BOS: 365
JFK: 375
EWR: 375
DTW: 385
CLE: 390
PIT: 395
ORD: 400
CVG: 410
STL: 440
SFO: 550
LAX: 560

Please don't spread misinformation.
Last edited by winginit on Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:06 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Using Friday Jun 21 as an example, lets do the outbound RDU flights.

DTW-RDU:
F9 9:10PM-11:02PM 4x weekly (M, W, F, S) A320
NK 10:20AM-12:00PM Daily A319 < (aircraft sits for a while, maybe it'll do BDL)
DL 7:31AM-9:12AM A319
DL 10:15AM-12:04PM 717
DL 3:15PM-5:08PM 717
DL 8:20PM-8:03PM A320

RDU-DTW:
F9 6:00AM-8:01AM 4x weekly (M, W, F, S) A320
NK 6:00am- 7:35AM Daily A319
DL 6:00AM-7:49AM A320
DL 9:52AM-11:40AM A319
DL 12:45PM-2:36PM 717
DL 5:47PM-7:40PM 717



Another great add by NK. So glad they are showing faith and keeping Delta's feet to the fire in Detroit. My question is what makes DTW-RDU a better option than DTW-SRQ/VPS were there would be no direct competition. DTW-RDU like AUS seems like an odd market to have 3 carriers operating it.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:08 pm

Good news for the Detroit Germany market this alliance should stimulate the market a bit.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/15/business ... index.html
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winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:17 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just curious what do these numbers mean in terms of flying time.


It's block time
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:21 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Just curious what do these numbers mean in terms of flying time.


It's block time


Are those in minutes then I assume ?
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:43 pm

I think DTW was chosen for 2 reasons by WOW Air DTW has pricing power for them plus Detroit is not delay prone allowing WW to keep their some what small fleet on time.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:57 pm

winginit wrote:
WW US Destination block times from KEF per OAG:

BOS: 365
JFK: 375
EWR: 375
DTW: 385

Your wish may very well come true as DTW next on the chopping block.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:14 pm

Looking at WW frame rotation, 6 frames doing an additional EU turnaround after finishing NA turnaround within 24 hours. That leaves 5 frames just for EU turns.

I sincerely doubt the theory of WW is capping NA to 6hr 30min blocks. Actually pushing it longer gives better crew productivity, assuming those stations have higher yields.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:42 pm

I had forgotten that DL was operating DTW-FRA with an A350 this week until I walked based the flight boarding at the gate today. The upgauge coincides with the auto show industry/media week when the global industry converges in Detroit.

Also, SkyClub renovations have progressed in the main club since I last stopped in before holidays. They've removed the check-in / agent desks from the top of the escalator and now have them all downstairs. They have added a lot of new furniture throughout the club and added many student-union style tables & chairs where the old check in desk was upstairs.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:29 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I had forgotten that DL was operating DTW-FRA with an A350 this week until I walked based the flight boarding at the gate today. The upgauge coincides with the auto show industry/media week when the global industry converges in Detroit.

Also, SkyClub renovations have progressed in the main club since I last stopped in before holidays. They've removed the check-in / agent desks from the top of the escalator and now have them all downstairs. They have added a lot of new furniture throughout the club and added many student-union style tables & chairs where the old check in desk was upstairs.


Curious if you might know off hand which flight that the A350 was taken off of to do DTW-FRA is it the AMS A350 ? Never mind I see Delta 134 has been downgraded to a 767
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:26 pm

It appears that in March, NK will be operating a 5th MCO flight and 3rd FLL flight. So if you look on March 30th it looks like 8 DL, 5 NK, 1 F9, 1 WN = 15 total flights. 7 of the 8 flights on DL are 757s and the 8th is an A321. 4 of 5 NK flights are A320s and the 5th is an A321. F9 is an A321 and WN is a 737-800. I think it's worth noting that everyone but DL is running 90s LF. DL is running high 80s. WN does well which makes me question why they cant do it daily at least for the winter. If B6 does the route theyll need to be prepared to use an A321 in the winter to match CASMs with everyone else.

FLL is a mix of A321s and 757s for DL, 2 A321s and an A320 for NK. They must've back filled the lost capacity from B6.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Just out of curiosity does anyone have access to the numbers to compare NK capacity at DTW vs SY capacity at MSP ?
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:00 pm

Delta restarts Bozeman for the summer, itll be Saturday only on the A319. Glad to see that this service was good enough to keep instead of limited time.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:57 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Delta restarts Bozeman for the summer, itll be Saturday only on the A319. Glad to see that this service was good enough to keep instead of limited time.


It's time for Detroit to get more connected to Canada. Think about this Detroit is the largest US boarder with Canada yet it only has flights to YUL, YYZ and YOW.

The Detroit–Windsor region is not recognized formally as a single metropolitan area by either the U.S. or Canadian government. If it were, the region would be the eighth most populous urban region in North America.
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FA9295
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:30 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Delta restarts Bozeman for the summer, itll be Saturday only on the A319. Glad to see that this service was good enough to keep instead of limited time.


It's time for Detroit to get more connected to Canada. Think about this Detroit is the largest US boarder with Canada yet it only has flights to YUL, YYZ and YOW.

The Detroit–Windsor region is not recognized formally as a single metropolitan area by either the U.S. or Canadian government. If it were, the region would be the eighth most populous urban region in North America.

I could see Delta starting DTW-YVR. I think a daily A319 or 737-800 would have sufficient pax loads. And if that's successful, then maybe that would increase the chances of WestJet starting flights at DTW.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just out of curiosity does anyone have access to the numbers to compare NK capacity at DTW vs SY capacity at MSP ?


Not really a revelant comparison. SY is a community airline that struggled for profitability outside its charter flying. Its former owner gave up waiting for his IPO payday, and sold the carrier to an equity firm that’s transitioning SY to an ULCC. If successful, I doubt there will be as much MSP flying several years from now.
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master14225
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Isn't there already a seasonal DTW-YVR by DL? I feel that ATL-YVR needs to be year round so that it can compete with WS new YYC-ATL service as YVR is a way bigger market than YYC.

FA9295 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Delta restarts Bozeman for the summer, itll be Saturday only on the A319. Glad to see that this service was good enough to keep instead of limited time.


It's time for Detroit to get more connected to Canada. Think about this Detroit is the largest US boarder with Canada yet it only has flights to YUL, YYZ and YOW.

The Detroit–Windsor region is not recognized formally as a single metropolitan area by either the U.S. or Canadian government. If it were, the region would be the eighth most populous urban region in North America.

I could see Delta starting DTW-YVR. I think a daily A319 or 737-800 would have sufficient pax loads. And if that's successful, then maybe that would increase the chances of WestJet starting flights at DTW.
 
NCAD95
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:59 pm

master14225 wrote:
Isn't there already a seasonal DTW-YVR by DL? I feel that ATL-YVR needs to be year round so that it can compete with WS new YYC-ATL service as YVR is a way bigger market than YYC.

FA9295 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It's time for Detroit to get more connected to Canada. Think about this Detroit is the largest US boarder with Canada yet it only has flights to YUL, YYZ and YOW.

The Detroit–Windsor region is not recognized formally as a single metropolitan area by either the U.S. or Canadian government. If it were, the region would be the eighth most populous urban region in North America.

I could see Delta starting DTW-YVR. I think a daily A319 or 737-800 would have sufficient pax loads. And if that's successful, then maybe that would increase the chances of WestJet starting flights at DTW.



Detroit has very poor coverage compared to MSP as far as Canada goes. Very little mainline and only flights to YOW, YUL and YYZ. YVR is summer only on Saturday. I think WS needs to come into Detroit and at the very least serve YVR year round and this would not directly compete with YQG-YYC on WS. YVR is at least as big as YYZ and YUL yet DTW is not connected to it while MSP is connected to both YYZ and YUL.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:49 am

NCAD95 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Isn't there already a seasonal DTW-YVR by DL? I feel that ATL-YVR needs to be year round so that it can compete with WS new YYC-ATL service as YVR is a way bigger market than YYC.

FA9295 wrote:
I could see Delta starting DTW-YVR. I think a daily A319 or 737-800 would have sufficient pax loads. And if that's successful, then maybe that would increase the chances of WestJet starting flights at DTW.



Detroit has very poor coverage compared to MSP as far as Canada goes. Very little mainline and only flights to YOW, YUL and YYZ. YVR is summer only on Saturday. I think WS needs to come into Detroit and at the very least serve YVR year round and this would not directly compete with YQG-YYC on WS. YVR is at least as big as YYZ and YUL yet DTW is not connected to it while MSP is connected to both YYZ and YUL.


YVR is not as big as YUL and no where near as big as YYZ. It’s also considerably further away and can be served over MSP or SEA, both of which are closer and larger markets to YVR.

Jeremy
 
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flymco753
Posts: 3271
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:44 am

SESGDL wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Isn't there already a seasonal DTW-YVR by DL? I feel that ATL-YVR needs to be year round so that it can compete with WS new YYC-ATL service as YVR is a way bigger market than YYC.




Detroit has very poor coverage compared to MSP as far as Canada goes. Very little mainline and only flights to YOW, YUL and YYZ. YVR is summer only on Saturday. I think WS needs to come into Detroit and at the very least serve YVR year round and this would not directly compete with YQG-YYC on WS. YVR is at least as big as YYZ and YUL yet DTW is not connected to it while MSP is connected to both YYZ and YUL.


YVR is not as big as YUL and no where near as big as YYZ. It’s also considerably further away and can be served over MSP or SEA, both of which are closer and larger markets to YVR.

Jeremy
The only reason the YVR route exists is because of cruises. There's a better chance of getting YYC than extending YVR.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
NCAD95
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:05 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Quite a few international capacity decreases for S19 including the significant drawdown of the A330. I'll compare.

TATL:
LHR '18: 2x 332 - LHR '19: 1x 76W, 1x 332
CDG '18: 1x 76W, 1x 332, 1x 777 - CDG '19: 2x 76W, 1x 789
AMS '18: 1x 359, 3x 333 - AMS '19: 1x 359, 3x 333
FRA '18: 1x 76W - FRA '19: 1x 76W
MUC '18: 1x 76W - MUC '19: 1x 76W
FCO '18: 1x 333 - FCO '19: 1x 76W

Asia capacity remains the same aside from an increase in NGO frequency, South America service is gone, and no service to Africa, Australia, or the Middle East will ever cross anyone's mind for Delta.

RJ seems to have permanently adjusted AMM to an evening departure and arrival shortly after LH leaves.

Here's a harsh reality, nobody is ever going to consider flying to Africa or Australia from DTW, lets leave those two continents off the table for good. The only remote possibility of additional Middle East service is going to be EK in which they can serve India. We're still talking 5 to 10 years before that could even come in the picture.

DTW is most likely in line for some new Europe flights, KEF traffic has doubled since service began, which has tripled since 2016. DUB should be in the lineup of stuff to see soon. BCN is hard, there's not a lot of premium traffic, I don't expect it or MAD any time soon. The only other remote possibility for a new European city will have to be DUS, even then it'll be very summer seasonal. Lets face the fact that BA isn't coming, LOT has no interest, and the amount of travel between DTW and MAN is considered "laughable" compared to MCO or NYC.

I imagine some Central and South America service could be possible, SJO is a pretty decent vacation destination. Perhaps that can come soon on a 757 seasonally. Expanded MBJ & PUJ service is likely. Would like to see someone get into STT or SXM. As for South America, the only possibility I see is DL starting BOG because they can use a 75W. Anything else is way too small for a 76W or 339 type aircraft. No South American carrier is going to want to touch DTW soil in terms of regularly scheduled flights.

Harsh reality that we as fanboys (like myself) or residents have to deal with, there's not really anywhere else to go. There's a huge cement wall in the way and that makes someones job marketing the airport probably 50x harder than it's supposed to be.


I actually see the switch to more 767's internationally at Detroit as a good thing. The more 767 flight we have here the more flexibility Delta has with that aircraft in Detroit. This may mean that they will add more TATL flying from Detroit with the 767. The A330 is just too big for places like DUB, MAN and BCN but the 767 is a good fit not as good as a 757 but better than an A330. It also means it no longer becomes an issue to place a 767 spare at Detroit with less issue. I really don't have a big issue with down gauging on a route as long as it's not to shift traffic from Detroit to support another hub like what was done with the 747 retirement. So I see this as a really good thing for Detroit. Time will tell how it plays out.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:19 pm

flymco753 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:


Detroit has very poor coverage compared to MSP as far as Canada goes. Very little mainline and only flights to YOW, YUL and YYZ. YVR is summer only on Saturday. I think WS needs to come into Detroit and at the very least serve YVR year round and this would not directly compete with YQG-YYC on WS. YVR is at least as big as YYZ and YUL yet DTW is not connected to it while MSP is connected to both YYZ and YUL.


YVR is not as big as YUL and no where near as big as YYZ. It’s also considerably further away and can be served over MSP or SEA, both of which are closer and larger markets to YVR.

Jeremy
The only reason the YVR route exists is because of cruises. There's a better chance of getting YYC than extending YVR.

No way YVR goes year-round, it Saturday summer seasonal to support Alaska cruise traffic.

YYC maybe summer seasonal. Looks like we are getting BZN for Summer 2019 which is the first year summer seasonal mountain west market in awhile.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Cold morning out DTW. Lows were -5 and hear reports of RON aircraft with frozen water lines and door locks.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Cold morning out DTW. Lows were -5 and hear reports of RON aircraft with frozen water lines and door locks.


I remember when NW used additional staffing during the winter to keep the DC-9s warm. FL did the same with the 717 (at DTW).
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7091
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:46 am

Roads are pretty bad and most schools districts are closed. The weather turned to the worse during auto show week, hope attendance will not fall too much. Glad, show being moved to June.
 
Puissance
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:43 pm

YVR has a leakage issue. Many people fly to Seattle and then take the Quick Shuttle right from the airport.
 
dtw107
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:22 pm

Chaos at airport! Luckily it was just opened in the last hour. So many flights have been cancelled or delayed. Just had to reschedule my flight for later. The issue was because of too much ice on runway that could not be removed.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:35 am

Just for us geeks -

Yesterday’s DTW-ICN cancellation (which wasn’t weather related) forced the cancellation of ICN-ATL. To reset, the 359 was pulled from AMS, and subbed an evening DTW-ATL flight to set-up this evening’s ATL-ICN. Meanwhile, a 77L (operational spare? I didn’t research it) subbed an afternoon ATL-DTW flight and subbed for the 359 to AMS.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
UppinhereP
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:39 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:19 am

compensateme wrote:
Just for us geeks -

Yesterday’s DTW-ICN cancellation (which wasn’t weather related) forced the cancellation of ICN-ATL. To reset, the 359 was pulled from AMS, and subbed an evening DTW-ATL flight to set-up this evening’s ATL-ICN. Meanwhile, a 77L (operational spare? I didn’t research it) subbed an afternoon ATL-DTW flight and subbed for the 359 to AMS.



Thank you for that update. It's impressive how they are adapt to rotate aircraft around to make schedules work. I really look forward to the Wide-Body fleet update to see the "subs"! But, I'm just a geek... lol :)
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:06 pm

Everything back to normal at DTW Thursday morning. I generally enjoy traveling this time of the year since it’s the slowest travel period and airports and sky clubs tend to be far more relaxed.
 
klm617
Posts: 4430
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:41 pm

As an avgeek myself I'd like to see KLM take over one of the DTW-AMS flights.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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