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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:43 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
klm617 wrote:
First of all EI on DTW-DUB is not unrealistic you tell me how an airport can land an daily EI flight when they can't even maintain year round Europe service outside of skyteam. A market that can't even carry a year round flight to one of the largest business centers in Europe Frankfurt which Detroit has carried 30 years now, Please don't sight the impending business deal with some Irish company either because based on that logic now that Ford and VW hooked up Detroit should be in line for Berlin flight with all the tech traffic that link up is going to create. Sorry in my mind that doesn't add up.

I never said EI was unrelastic. I just don't get so butthurt over the fact it hasn't happened yet.
You can't seem to grasp logical arguments that everyone else on a.net makes to all your replies, nevermind turning around a discussion about your lack of perceived commitment by NK to DTW, now somehow turns into a discussion about why you can't understand why EI hasn't started DTW yet.

You are unbelievable in your record-repeating sound-bytes about how DTW is slighted by everyone.


My reply stems for this comment you made "You've been fighting the good fight on a.net for over 2 years but nothing has really changed and you seem to have unrealistic expectations on what DL, NK, the WCAA, WW, EI, or any airline could offer for DTW."
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:17 pm

Only bad part about MCO right now is vulnerability during the next recession. Granted, its not nearly as bad as the west coast, but itll play effect on tourism.
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flyinryan99
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:29 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Anyways....heard something about a frozen pipe bursting today in the North Terminal, flooding the FIS area and leading to delays for WW?

I was told it was in D9 - D10 area where the FIS escalators are there. Sounds like it was a big mess....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:39 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Only bad part about MCO right now is vulnerability during the next recession. Granted, its not nearly as bad as the west coast, but itll play effect on tourism.

That's true of almost everywhere though, and got to jump on the opportunities while times are good. MCO is the type of market that will always bounce back though. Its one of the few markets that has almost bottomless market stimulation opportunities.


I started digging more into DL schedule changes (hey, my work is super slow now that I'm back in DTW and we are frozen-in)
- As compensateme mentioned, looks like the last few MD-90s on routes to ATL & PHL convert to other a/c types in mid-June, removing the MD-90 from DTW for the time being

- This summer, ATL will peak at 13 flights/day on Mondays.
This includes morning departures at 0530, 0600, 0630, 0730, 0850, 1015, 1130, 1230, 1349, 1600, 1750, 1925, 2025
(The 5:30am flight being one of the earliest departures I've seen from DL, and 4 ATL flights before 7:30am may be a new peak)

- Did not realize that DTW-ORD had gone all mainline sometime in 2018, but is still showing all mainline for summer 2019

- DL still has not loaded any mainline for DTW-TVC this summer, which would be a change for years past, still all CR2/7/9 flights through June/July. Which is strange still since they have 717 RON flight that runs through May; assuming its still a default placeholder schedule

- IND gets a A321 RON this summer

- DFW goes all-mainline effective in May with the last of the CR9 / E75s upgauging to A220s; - 5x A220, 1x 717
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:44 pm

I know DL extended SRQ through August on Saturdays, but someone is going to have to do it with a more regular schedule. We already know F9 wont do it, or else they would've already added it. G4 doesn't fly to DTW, so they won't do it. This leaves NK as the only realistic option left.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:45 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I know DL extended SRQ through August on Saturdays, but someone is going to have to do it with a more regular schedule. We already know F9 wont do it, or else they would've already added it. G4 doesn't fly to DTW, so they won't do it. This leaves NK as the only realistic option left.


See this is the type of growth I'm talking about that isn't happening at NK in Detroit. DTW to SRQ/VPS should be givens as other cities smaller than the Detroit market have service to them.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:52 pm

ORD went all-717 last year when they trimmed a flight. DL’s since upgauged select flights to the 319 and 320, as well as the occassional 739.

And around last mid-decade, PMDL operated a 4:30AM departure to ATL on the CRJ (at the time, the only non-mainline equipment flown on the route). Likely the earliest scheduled flight I’ve ever been on... unless you count those 2:30AM LAX-DTW flights on NW, but I consider those to be late night departures :) .
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:53 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I know DL extended SRQ through August on Saturdays, but someone is going to have to do it with a more regular schedule. We already know F9 wont do it, or else they would've already added it. G4 doesn't fly to DTW, so they won't do it. This leaves NK as the only realistic option left.


See this is the type of growth I'm talking about that isn't happening at NK in Detroit. DTW to SRQ/VPS should be givens as other cities smaller than the Detroit market have service to them.


Except that's not how Network Planning works, which you're well aware of. Carriers to include NK are obligated to deploy capacity where it is already or has in the future the best chance at being profitable, and just because cities smaller than Detroit have service to places does not mean profitable capacity can be deployed to those places from Detroit.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:05 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I know DL extended SRQ through August on Saturdays, but someone is going to have to do it with a more regular schedule. We already know F9 wont do it, or else they would've already added it. G4 doesn't fly to DTW, so they won't do it. This leaves NK as the only realistic option left.


See this is the type of growth I'm talking about that isn't happening at NK in Detroit. DTW to SRQ/VPS should be givens as other cities smaller than the Detroit market have service to them.


Except that's not how Network Planning works, which you're well aware of. Carriers to include NK are obligated to deploy capacity where it is already or has in the future the best chance at being profitable, and just because cities smaller than Detroit have service to places does not mean profitable capacity can be deployed to those places from Detroit.
CLE has 2 carriers to SRQ because they're both sub daily, DTW would be a daily service market. There's almost no point into flying 3 or 4x a week on this market in a seasonal manner. NK only does it with PBI because resources are allocated to split PBI and MBJ with the same aircraft.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:06 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I know DL extended SRQ through August on Saturdays, but someone is going to have to do it with a more regular schedule. We already know F9 wont do it, or else they would've already added it. G4 doesn't fly to DTW, so they won't do it. This leaves NK as the only realistic option left.


See this is the type of growth I'm talking about that isn't happening at NK in Detroit. DTW to SRQ/VPS should be givens as other cities smaller than the Detroit market have service to them.


Except that's not how Network Planning works, which you're well aware of. Carriers to include NK are obligated to deploy capacity where it is already or has in the future the best chance at being profitable, and just because cities smaller than Detroit have service to places does not mean profitable capacity can be deployed to those places from Detroit.
CLE has 2 carriers to SRQ because they're both sub daily, DTW would be a daily service market. There's almost no point into flying 3 or 4x a week on this market in a seasonal manner. NK only does it with PBI because resources are allocated to split PBI and MBJ with the same aircraft.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:24 pm

I'm not trying to bash CLE here, I'm going to use them as a comparative measure to show y'all how suppressed some of these Atlantic Coast/Gulf Coast markets are from DTW.

CLE-CHS is flown on 3 carriers (F9, G4, UA) F9 and G4 will fly 2x a week each. F9 uses a high density A321 and G4 uses a high density A320. UA flies a 50 seat E145 once a week. That translates to 460 per week on F9, 354 per week on G4, and 50 per week on UA, totaling 864 seats per week. DTW-CHS is suspended until March, at that point there will be 2 CRJ-700's every day sans Saturday. Lets use the summer as a comparison. 3x E175 sans Saturday in which it's 2. That's 1520 seats per week. That's not a very far gap in terms of a market that is nearly twice the size.

CLE-SAV will be flown daily by G4 this summer on an A320. That translates to 1239 seats per week. DTW-SAV will be flown once daily sans Saturday in which it will be flown twice, so 8x CR9's per week, which translates to only 608 seats per week. DTW-SAV, a market nearly 1/4 the size of CLE-SAV.

CLE-SRQ will be flown 4x per week. Twice by Frontier and twice by Allegiant. F9 will be 2x weekly with the A321, G4 2x weekly with the A320. Reduce 50 from the amount of CHS seats above, that's how many seats are going to be flown between CLE-SRQ. DTW-SRQ will be flown once a week on the MD-90 until August. Only 158 seats compared to 859 seats per week. Be it known, DTW-SRQ is slightly larger even during the quarters when a nonstop flight is offered, but those numbers are offset because of the one nonstop with the rest being connecting.

DTW-JAX is at a level that the market is at. There's a ULCC and a legacy that feeds, so there's no reason the same can be done with CHS, SAV, and SRQ. DL probably charges enough on JAX that the plane can leave with 25 or 30 seats open, they could fill those with connections. NK needs to rely off the local passengers, they are filling seats, where'd this excess capacity come from? SAV and CHS are already 100+ PDEW markets, SRQ could end up that way should another carrier offer nonstop service. The DTW-Florida market is healthy enough where RSW and TPA wouldn't lose out much, if any, should more SRQ seats be offered.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:51 pm

Textbook markets that are ripe for ULCC stimulation.

DTW-CHS & SAV were never even flown until mid-2000s when NW started service with CRJs at 1-2 a day max. NW was very weak in smaller markets in the Southeast until they started opening up new markets with CRJ service in the mid-2000s to markets like SAV, CHS, CAE, etc. Basically anything that was too far from DTW or MEM for the SF3 and couldn't support DC-9 service was untouched by NW until the CRJ. Granted this was DL country down there so hence the merger was complementary but hasn't lead to a significant increase in service from DTW to most of these seconary markets, particularly more leisure/tourism oriented markets.

One has to wonder if F9 and G4 don't want to foray much into these DTW markets because they know that DL & NK will ultimately run them out of the market. Both has the resources to do so with adding capacity and the brand awareness in the DTW market.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:43 pm

Since NK acknowledges it’s been successful in attracting frugal business travelers, I’d love to see BHM added. For years, DL refused to fly nothing but the CRJ on the route - but when there was an occasional CR7, it seemed like nearly everybody on the flight was standing by for First.

Then again, advanced purchase fares have really plummeted recently...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:53 pm

It seems like F9’s has difficulties at DTW. It doesn’t help that their schedule is confusing, departure/arrival times often suck, and markets come and go like clientele at a whore house. I have to reference Wikipedia to remember where they fly to, and if they’re still flying there.

20+ years of name recognition for NK likely doesn’t help...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:54 pm

BHM is actually larger than Charleston in a yearly pax avg but CHS swings a tad higher in the summer months. The problem is, G4 and F9, even SY probably feel DL is the largest threat. F9 goes in twice a week with BHM on an A319 and mysteriously, DL will pull an A320 out of nowhere to do the evening departure and morning arrival. I'd think the same goes for SAV & CHS too. We will see if NK hurts F9 with AUS and RDU.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:52 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I'm not trying to bash CLE here, I'm going to use them as a comparative measure to show y'all how suppressed some of these Atlantic Coast/Gulf Coast markets are from DTW.

CLE-CHS is flown on 3 carriers (F9, G4, UA) F9 and G4 will fly 2x a week each. F9 uses a high density A321 and G4 uses a high density A320. UA flies a 50 seat E145 once a week. That translates to 460 per week on F9, 354 per week on G4, and 50 per week on UA, totaling 864 seats per week. DTW-CHS is suspended until March, at that point there will be 2 CRJ-700's every day sans Saturday. Lets use the summer as a comparison. 3x E175 sans Saturday in which it's 2. That's 1520 seats per week. That's not a very far gap in terms of a market that is nearly twice the size.

CLE-SAV will be flown daily by G4 this summer on an A320. That translates to 1239 seats per week. DTW-SAV will be flown once daily sans Saturday in which it will be flown twice, so 8x CR9's per week, which translates to only 608 seats per week. DTW-SAV, a market nearly 1/4 the size of CLE-SAV.

CLE-SRQ will be flown 4x per week. Twice by Frontier and twice by Allegiant. F9 will be 2x weekly with the A321, G4 2x weekly with the A320. Reduce 50 from the amount of CHS seats above, that's how many seats are going to be flown between CLE-SRQ. DTW-SRQ will be flown once a week on the MD-90 until August. Only 158 seats compared to 859 seats per week. Be it known, DTW-SRQ is slightly larger even during the quarters when a nonstop flight is offered, but those numbers are offset because of the one nonstop with the rest being connecting.

DTW-JAX is at a level that the market is at. There's a ULCC and a legacy that feeds, so there's no reason the same can be done with CHS, SAV, and SRQ. DL probably charges enough on JAX that the plane can leave with 25 or 30 seats open, they could fill those with connections. NK needs to rely off the local passengers, they are filling seats, where'd this excess capacity come from? SAV and CHS are already 100+ PDEW markets, SRQ could end up that way should another carrier offer nonstop service. The DTW-Florida market is healthy enough where RSW and TPA wouldn't lose out much, if any, should more SRQ seats be offered.


The main reason is because Delta needs the Detroit passenger fed through ATL as much as possible to keep their hourly flights to Florida viable. The more traffic that gets diverted away from ATL-Florida the lower their load factors would be. So if there were nonstop to SRQ or VPS the problem for Delta is two fold first the Detroit passenger would no longer be connecting in ATL plus Detroit could then offer connections further deteriorating their loads out of ATL. So as long as there is no other convenient option out of Detroit to some of these markets than the Detroit traveler is subject to that grueling connection through ATL unless they use a different carrier for an alternative connection hub. To say these markets are not viable from Detroit is a joke because they are as has been proven by all the addition JAX capacity it this is where NK is if failing in the Detroit market because SRQ and VPS daily are doable. Lets face it a new SRQ or VPS link is better than adding something that already has two carriers on it.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:14 pm

klm617 wrote:
The main reason is because Delta needs the Detroit passenger fed through ATL as much as possible to keep their hourly flights to Florida viable. The more traffic that gets diverted away from ATL-Florida the lower their load factors would be. So if there were nonstop to SRQ or VPS the problem for Delta is two fold first the Detroit passenger would no longer be connecting in ATL plus Detroit could then offer connections further deteriorating their loads out of ATL.


Okay, so you're saying here that Delta needs DTW passenger feed over ATL to keep ATL-SRQ/VPS viable, so that's why they can't increase capacity from DTW to SRQ/VPS.

klm617 wrote:
To say these markets are not viable from Detroit is a joke because they are as has been proven by all the addition JAX capacity it this is where NK is if failing in the Detroit market because SRQ and VPS daily are doable. Lets face it a new SRQ or VPS link is better than adding something that already has two carriers on it.


Wait a minute, to say that DTW-SRQ/VPS capacity adds aren't viable is a joke but didn't you just state your opinion above that DTW-SRQ/VPS capacity increases aren't viable because DL needs DTW to feed ATL-SRQ/VPS?

Aren't you contradicting yourself within that post? Does DL need DTW feed to keep ATL-SRQ/VPS viable or not?
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:05 pm

To an extent klm617 is right, however, it's skewed a little. In regards to SRQ, yes, a lot of traffic is purposely driven through ATL. I'm looking at some CHS, SAV, & BHM flights right now, and almost every search includes an ATL connection at or lower than the nonstop ticket price. From ATL you're offered an aircraft with PTV's for a flight that's less than an hour, whilst a flight from DTW is a regional jet of some sort. Don't get me wrong, DL has a great regional product, but that suppresses capacity.

ATL is a good airport to connect in without a doubt, but suppression is becoming more real as we see markets like CLE, IND, PIT, and CVG get service and more capacity to places that might be half or a quarter smaller than DTW's market.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:18 pm

compensateme wrote:
It seems like F9’s has difficulties at DTW. It doesn’t help that their schedule is confusing, departure/arrival times often suck, and markets come and go like clientele at a whore house. I have to reference Wikipedia to remember where they fly to, and if they’re still flying there.

20+ years of name recognition for NK likely doesn’t help...

Very true, and thats not necessarily viable for many either. I often have no clue of their current service since it changes so frequently and you remember a press release about it starting but never hear about it ending or going seasonal or switching days of the week of operation.

compensateme wrote:
Since NK acknowledges it’s been successful in attracting frugal business travelers, I’d love to see BHM added. For years, DL refused to fly nothing but the CRJ on the route - but when there was an occasional CR7, it seemed like nearly everybody on the flight was standing by for First.

Then again, advanced purchase fares have really plummeted recently...

BMH is up to 3x CR9 at least for the time being and they got the CR2 and CR7s out of there. BHM does have automotive traffic particularly for a lot of suppliers that have facilities down in Northern Alabama along the I-65 corridor. For some of facilities I've had to visit down there its a wash between BNA or BHM and often BNA was easier with better schedules, larger planes, and cheaper fares than BHM (although BNA has a nasty rush-hour and all the highways and roads around the airport get choked during evening rush).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:35 pm

flymco753 wrote:
To an extent klm617 is right, however, it's skewed a little. In regards to SRQ, yes, a lot of traffic is purposely driven through ATL. I'm looking at some CHS, SAV, & BHM flights right now, and almost every search includes an ATL connection at or lower than the nonstop ticket price. From ATL you're offered an aircraft with PTV's for a flight that's less than an hour, whilst a flight from DTW is a regional jet of some sort. Don't get me wrong, DL has a great regional product, but that suppresses capacity.

ATL is a good airport to connect in without a doubt, but suppression is becoming more real as we see markets like CLE, IND, PIT, and CVG get service and more capacity to places that might be half or a quarter smaller than DTW's market.


At a high level yes, but its a bit more complex than that and a lot of it comes down to yield management practices at DL.

DL has a relatively high threshold for profit margin than it has committed to make across its network. There are obviously individual flights and markets that fall well above or well below those levels but at the end of the day averages out to a 10-12% margin. Flights and markets that don't have to have have some type of strategic value, be of benefit for the broader good, or viewed as an investment for the future (e.g. think product development).

ATL works very well for DL since it can move enormous volume of passengers primarily on large narrowbody aircraft. This gives them a lot more degrees of freedom to manage yields between any given markets and direct flows where appropriate to leave seats in other markets available for higher margin, often closer-in booking passengers.

Smaller markets in the Southeast like SAV, CHS, CAE, etc. often face strong competition and low fares from AA (CLT, DCA, PHL) and even UA (IAD) where the lowest fare flights are often on connections over these hubs from DTW. To the tune of several hundred dollars less than the nonstop and maybe slightly cheaper than DL over ATL. Thus, price conscious traffic and advanced booking that want price over schedule are buying these flights/fares.

DL has the point-of-sale traffic in those southern markets flowing over ATL for majority of connections. DL is going after the DTW O&D and connections that make sense over DTW but not going to fire-sale prices that AA is offering over CLT connections. Thus going for the business travelers, and DL loyal passengers.
DL will go after some of the lower fare traffic but often try to flow that over ATL hub and keep higher margins on the DTW nonstops.

Soon as someone like NK starts nonstop service, DL will increase capacity and go head-to-head, but they limit capacity to keep their margins higher on the nonstop flights.

At least CHS has a morning flight most of the year. SAV puzzles me since the only flight is a evening RON, which is telling that if they were targeting more leisure/tourism oriented passengers they would have a morning departure to SAV / afternoon return (like how NW scheduled it). I used to visit Hilton Head frequently, and the SAV nonstop didn't work, so would fly recently to CHS and drive down from there.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:02 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
To an extent klm617 is right, however, it's skewed a little. In regards to SRQ, yes, a lot of traffic is purposely driven through ATL. I'm looking at some CHS, SAV, & BHM flights right now, and almost every search includes an ATL connection at or lower than the nonstop ticket price. From ATL you're offered an aircraft with PTV's for a flight that's less than an hour, whilst a flight from DTW is a regional jet of some sort. Don't get me wrong, DL has a great regional product, but that suppresses capacity.

ATL is a good airport to connect in without a doubt, but suppression is becoming more real as we see markets like CLE, IND, PIT, and CVG get service and more capacity to places that might be half or a quarter smaller than DTW's market.


At a high level yes, but its a bit more complex than that and a lot of it comes down to yield management practices at DL.

DL has a relatively high threshold for profit margin than it has committed to make across its network. There are obviously individual flights and markets that fall well above or well below those levels but at the end of the day averages out to a 10-12% margin. Flights and markets that don't have to have have some type of strategic value, be of benefit for the broader good, or viewed as an investment for the future (e.g. think product development).

ATL works very well for DL since it can move enormous volume of passengers primarily on large narrowbody aircraft. This gives them a lot more degrees of freedom to manage yields between any given markets and direct flows where appropriate to leave seats in other markets available for higher margin, often closer-in booking passengers.

Smaller markets in the Southeast like SAV, CHS, CAE, etc. often face strong competition and low fares from AA (CLT, DCA, PHL) and even UA (IAD) where the lowest fare flights are often on connections over these hubs from DTW. To the tune of several hundred dollars less than the nonstop and maybe slightly cheaper than DL over ATL. Thus, price conscious traffic and advanced booking that want price over schedule are buying these flights/fares.

DL has the point-of-sale traffic in those southern markets flowing over ATL for majority of connections. DL is going after the DTW O&D and connections that make sense over DTW but not going to fire-sale prices that AA is offering over CLT connections. Thus going for the business travelers, and DL loyal passengers.
DL will go after some of the lower fare traffic but often try to flow that over ATL hub and keep higher margins on the DTW nonstops.

Soon as someone like NK starts nonstop service, DL will increase capacity and go head-to-head, but they limit capacity to keep their margins higher on the nonstop flights.

At least CHS has a morning flight most of the year. SAV puzzles me since the only flight is a evening RON, which is telling that if they were targeting more leisure/tourism oriented passengers they would have a morning departure to SAV / afternoon return (like how NW scheduled it). I used to visit Hilton Head frequently, and the SAV nonstop didn't work, so would fly recently to CHS and drive down from there.


We can justify what Delta does all day long but it in no way benefits the customer or the airport. I understand your theory but Detroit is a loyal Delta market and they need to do a bit better. Why not offer nonstop at a price some where between the AA fare and their high end Nonstop fare that way everybody wins the airport gains a few more connection passengers, the customer gets nonstop service and Delta wins customers back from AA now that for maybe $50 to $100 more get a nonstop instead of connecting at CLT. Again if there is no money to be made from offering nonstop service in these markets why offer nonstop when NK steps up and offers flights.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:15 pm

klm617 wrote:
We can justify what Delta does all day long but it in no way benefits the customer or the airport.


Delta exists for the primary purpose of maximizing shareholder wealth; thus, shareholder well-being trumps the interests of the customer or the airport.

klm617 wrote:
I understand your theory but Detroit is a loyal Delta market and they need to do a bit better.


One might argue that Detroit is a loyal Delta market because Delta has shown loyalty to the customer base by having a hub there.

klm617 wrote:
Why not offer nonstop at a price some where between the AA fare and their high end Nonstop fare that way everybody wins


Again, Delta is not in business so that 'everybody' can win. They are in business so that their shareholders win.

Look I can appreciate your romantic view of how businesses should operate, but maybe it's time to be a bit realistic as to whose interests come first in capitalism.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:54 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
We can justify what Delta does all day long but it in no way benefits the customer or the airport.


Delta exists for the primary purpose of maximizing shareholder wealth; thus, shareholder well-being trumps the interests of the customer or the airport.

klm617 wrote:
I understand your theory but Detroit is a loyal Delta market and they need to do a bit better.


One might argue that Detroit is a loyal Delta market because Delta has shown loyalty to the customer base by having a hub there.

A few posters on this forum sould like AOC, Warren, Harris, and Booker. DTW is entitled to service at the expense of the richer neighbors (BOS,JFK, LGA, ORD, etc.).

klm617 wrote:
Why not offer nonstop at a price some where between the AA fare and their high end Nonstop fare that way everybody wins


Again, Delta is not in business so that 'everybody' can win. They are in business so that their shareholders win.

Look I can appreciate your romantic view of how businesses should operate, but maybe it's time to be a bit realistic as to whose interests come first in capitalism.


Several posters in this forum are clearly in suppprt of AOC, Warren, Harris, Sanders, and Booker by supporting government control of every aspect of human life.

Transfer this to aviation and you tax ATL, BOS, CLT, DCA, DEN, DFW, IAH, JFK, LAX, LGA, MIA, ORD, and SFO for being rich and give it to DTW. The rich become poor and DTW gets a handout for contributing nothing to society except complaining about not being a billionaire.


You have that a bit backwards Detroiters pay higher than average fares to support the over saturation in the major markets of the US and the low fares that are offered their by the abundance of competition. Try living in a city like DSM and OMA and flying a legacy carrier and then your tune might change. But we know you are based out of ORD where there is no shortage of low fares to be had.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
You have that a bit backwards Detroiters pay higher than average fares to support the over saturation in the major markets of the US and the low fares that are offered their by the abundance of competition. Try living in a city like DSM and OMA and flying a legacy carrier and then your tune might change. But we know you are based out of ORD where there is no shortage of low fares to be had.


It's called supply and demand my friend. No where in the constitution is affordable air transportation established as a right of the people.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:00 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
We can justify what Delta does all day long but it in no way benefits the customer or the airport.


Delta exists for the primary purpose of maximizing shareholder wealth; thus, shareholder well-being trumps the interests of the customer or the airport.

klm617 wrote:
I understand your theory but Detroit is a loyal Delta market and they need to do a bit better.


One might argue that Detroit is a loyal Delta market because Delta has shown loyalty to the customer base by having a hub there.

klm617 wrote:
Why not offer nonstop at a price some where between the AA fare and their high end Nonstop fare that way everybody wins


Again, Delta is not in business so that 'everybody' can win. They are in business so that their shareholders win.

Look I can appreciate your romantic view of how businesses should operate, but maybe it's time to be a bit realistic as to whose interests come first in capitalism.


To you last comment and that is why the WCAA has to stop catering to Delta and it's whims in the Detroit market. It's time to start pursuing more LCC service her and force Delta's hand to improve Detroit options at least the folks in MSP get that. Sorry I don't buy into the belief that the rich should get as rich as they can at the expense of the well being of others. You may have been schooled to believe that way but I am more for a fare and equitable system the helps everyone not just those at the top of the income level.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:03 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
You have that a bit backwards Detroiters pay higher than average fares to support the over saturation in the major markets of the US and the low fares that are offered their by the abundance of competition. Try living in a city like DSM and OMA and flying a legacy carrier and then your tune might change. But we know you are based out of ORD where there is no shortage of low fares to be had.


It's called supply and demand my friend. No where in the constitution is affordable air transportation established as a right of the people.


Bring that supply into the Detroit market and watch that demand grow. It's a known fact in aviation that more service stimulates growth. Let NK start DTW-SRQ and watch that capacity jump within weeks again JAX is proof that there was demand. From one CR7 to 3 mainline how does a market magically grow 4 fold over night. SRQ and VPS are the same. No where in the constitution does it say that people from Detroit have to pay double the fare to support a flight from ORD, JFK or BOS because there is too much competition to charge higher prices. Of course there is more demand because fares are artificially low in those markets.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:51 am

klm617 wrote:
You have that a bit backwards Detroiters pay higher than average fares to support the over saturation in the major markets of the US and the low fares that are offered their by the abundance of competition.


What if DL actually said something like this during an earnings call. How quickly would major financial institutions short the stock???
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:26 pm

klm617 wrote:
To you last comment and that is why the WCAA has to stop catering to Delta and it's whims in the Detroit market. It's time to start pursuing more LCC service her and force Delta's hand to improve Detroit options at least the folks in MSP get that.


To imply that the Director of the WCAA Air Service Development Team, who worked for both Frontier and US Airways in Network Planning for years, is not actively pursuing LCCs (with great success) for DTW and is somehow in the pocket of Delta is pretty unappreciative. You should be thanking him each and every day.

klm617 wrote:
Bring that supply into the Detroit market and watch that demand grow. It's a known fact in aviation that more service stimulates growth. Let NK start DTW-SRQ and watch that capacity jump within weeks again JAX is proof that there was demand.


Is there, in your mind, someone who is preventing NK from doing that?

adamh8297 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
You have that a bit backwards Detroiters pay higher than average fares to support the over saturation in the major markets of the US and the low fares that are offered their by the abundance of competition.


What if DL actually said something like this during an earnings call. How quickly would major financial institutions short the stock???


... uh... my guess would be none of them? Major financial institutions who invest in Delta for the purposes of profiting are well versed on the dynamics of supply, demand, and revenue premiums in this industry.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:07 am

I'll just remind users that comments relating to politics belong in the Non Aviation Forum. That is the only place political comments are permitted on this site.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:36 pm

RJ AMM-DTW JUN 0.2>0.4[0.2]

WOW Royal Jordanian is adding a third flight this summer more good news on the international front in Detroit. Flights no operate on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday

Thursday

02:45
Amman (AMM)

07:55
Detroit (DTW) -

Tuesday and Friday

10:35
Amman (AMM)

15:45
Detroit (DTW) - Terminal N
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:07 pm

Nice to see AA bring back the A321 to CLT and PHX in May. I'll most certainly use it on occasion to travel between Florida and DTW.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
dtw9
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:42 pm

As a side note. The A220’s start familiarization flights tomorrow morning

Ship 8101 dl A220 will be in tomorrow flt 9967 @ 0900 and depart @ 1200

Ship 8102 will be in the 5th flt 9962 @ 1815 and depart @ 1900, Be back on the 6th flt 9961 @1000 and depart @ 1040

8104 as of right now will be in the 5th flt 9960 @ 1000 depart @ 1040
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:25 pm

B6 is going 4x on BOS at the end of September. 3x E90 1x 320. The two morning flights are E90s, the last flight is an E90, and the 320 will fly in mid day/early afternoon.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:30 pm

07:55 arrival on Tuesday? That’s interesting. YUL still stands at x2 weekly
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:33 pm

I wonder why they are flying an A320 on the third flight as the evening flight will see more connections on EK, QR, TK.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:28 am

BenflysDTW wrote:
I wonder why they are flying an A320 on the third flight as the evening flight will see more connections on EK, QR, TK.


These are the flight times of the A320 so I'm assuming it's for all the onward international connections at BOS



3:58 PM

DTW

Detroit, MI (DTW)


Flight number 2336 Aircraft A320


5:50 PM

BOS

Boston, MA (BOS)

1h 52m
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
blockski
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:28 pm

Hi there, Detroiters - I connected through DTW this weekend on Delta, and had the unfortunate experience of having to walk the entire length of the A concourse without the use of the tram. Made the connection just fine, but had to hustle.

Hope they get that thing fixed soon.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:48 pm

Tram is down until early-April for planned maintenance and software upgrades.

That said, I do agree at first glance it seems like a lengthy shutdown, but I don't know all the specifics of the duration and effort necessary to perform such work.

While is saves a bunch of walking, the tram generally doesn't save a significant amount of time when you consider having to navigate up/down the escalators at each station, wait for the train, etc. If you just miss a tram at one of the end stations, its faster to the mid-station with a brisk walk and moving sidewalks than waiting for the next tram.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:53 pm

blockski wrote:
Hi there, Detroiters - I connected through DTW this weekend on Delta, and had the unfortunate experience of having to walk the entire length of the A concourse without the use of the tram. Made the connection just fine, but had to hustle.

Hope they get that thing fixed soon.


Why didn't you use moving walkways? With just 3 stops tram is not always the perfect option to reduce walking.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:25 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Tram is down until early-April for planned maintenance and software upgrades.

That said, I do agree at first glance it seems like a lengthy shutdown, but I don't know all the specifics of the duration and effort necessary to perform such work.

While is saves a bunch of walking, the tram generally doesn't save a significant amount of time when you consider having to navigate up/down the escalators at each station, wait for the train, etc. If you just miss a tram at one of the end stations, its faster to the mid-station with a brisk walk and moving sidewalks than waiting for the next tram.


I have never used the tram because as you say the up and down and then waiting for it to arrive it's just as convenient as the moving walkways and really doesn't save any measure of time.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
blockski
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:14 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
blockski wrote:
Hi there, Detroiters - I connected through DTW this weekend on Delta, and had the unfortunate experience of having to walk the entire length of the A concourse without the use of the tram. Made the connection just fine, but had to hustle.

Hope they get that thing fixed soon.


Why didn't you use moving walkways? With just 3 stops tram is not always the perfect option to reduce walking.


I did use every single one of them. Walking the entire length of the concourse, with bags and a stroller, is still a lot.

I'm not complaining about the sheer distance; but the combo of distance and time was almost a challenge. Fix that tram.
 
timf
Posts: 527
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:31 pm

I can see the tram being out of service being an issue for connecting passengers who are looking to go the full length of the concourse. As O&D passengers, we never need to use the tram to go beyond the midpoint. It takes virtually the same amount of time to walk from an end station to the center station if you just missed the train as it takes to wait for it and to ride it. However, the train would be the far faster option to go from one end station to the other, even if you had to wait 4 minutes for it to return.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:13 pm

timf wrote:
I can see the tram being out of service being an issue for connecting passengers who are looking to go the full length of the concourse. As O&D passengers, we never need to use the tram to go beyond the midpoint. It takes virtually the same amount of time to walk from an end station to the center station if you just missed the train as it takes to wait for it and to ride it. However, the train would be the far faster option to go from one end station to the other, even if you had to wait 4 minutes for it to return.


You really have to hustle to beat the tram, and if you’re traveling with small children or elderly relatives, that’s just not possible. Heck, I had an instance a little more than a year ago where I knew I wasn’t going to make the tram (it was pulling into the station as I passed the escalator) so I walked as fast as I could. But I encountered a couple “obstacles” (re: people who can’t read stand and walk) on the moving walkways and the next tram clearly beat me by at least at minute (favoring in the exit; maybe two)... and the gate agent was literally closing the door to the flight as I walked up. A full 15 minutes before departure, and 30 minutes before the aircraft pushed back. Frustrating.

Now, the good news is that I was in economy and the GA confirmed me to F on the next flight, instead of making me standby for an economy seat (completely full, and 40+ names on F standby list... noway would I have gotten that seat... take that, FlyerTalk). But I still would’ve preferred to have gotten home three hours earlier (wait- three hours of life instead of F? Take that again, FlyerTalk).
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:43 am

On one hand, I wonder why I bother to post this since it will probably cause a riot and flame war, but I would rather debate data than hyperpole.

Year-End 2018 DTW Stats were released today.
Largest passenger count since 2007, prior to the Great Recession.
#18 for passenger count in the US.

Here is the write-up from the Freep:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/busin ... 770242002/

Here is my summary of the data from the WCAA website - using passenger emplanements. (I apologize in advance for any minor math or rounding errors:

Enplanements % Change YOY
Jan 1,210,885 -0.9%
Feb 1,177,863 -1.7%
Mar 1,531,911 1.8%
Apr 1,421,253 1.8%
May 1,541,626 1.1%
Jun 1,606,965 3.1%
July 1,651,636 5.0%
Aug 1,670,225 3.9%
Sep 1,429,444 1.0%
Oct 1,540,458 0.1%
Nov 1,421,027 1.3%
Dec 1,403,955 2.2%

2018 YTD 17,608,382 1.6%
Last edited by PSU.DTW.SCE on Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7229
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:44 am

Brand Carrier 2018 Total 2018 % of Total 2017 Total 2017 % of Total YOY Change
Delta (Combined) 12,761,293 72.5% 12,632,658 72.9% 1.0%
Delta 8,900,442 50.5% 8,735,132 50.4% 1.9%
Delta/Compass - #VALUE! 93,950 0.5% #VALUE!
Delta/Endeavor 1,162,729 6.6% 1,137,462 6.6% 2.2%
Delta/ExpressJet 84,209 0.5% 384,501 2.2% -78.1%
Delta/GoJet 1,058,049 6.0% 881,949 5.1% 20.0%
Delta/Republic 213,525 1.2% 159,711 0.9% 33.7%
Delta/Shuttle America - #VALUE! 12,629 0.1% #VALUE!
Delta/SkyWest 1,342,339 7.6% 1,227,324 7.1% 9.4%

Spirit Spirit 1,685,762 9.6% 1,477,044 8.5% 14.1%

American (Combined) 1,001,441 5.7% 1,119,012 6.5% -10.5%
American 649,501 3.7% 719,829 4.2% -9.8%
American/Air Wisconsin 0 0.0% 33,134 0.2% -100.0%
American/Envoy 39,829 0.2% 42,621 0.2% -6.6%
American/Piedmont 26,440 0.2% 10,505 0.1% 151.7%
American/PSA 81,762 0.5% 108,589 0.6% -24.7%
American/Republic 90,071 0.5% 113,293 0.7% -20.5%
American/SkyWest 113,838 0.6% 84,556 0.5% 34.6%
American/Trans State - #VALUE! 6,485 0.0% #VALUE!

Southwest Southwest 835,474 4.7% 848,897 4.9% -1.6%

United (Combined) 623,914 3.5% 579,667 3.3% 7.6%
United 188,095 1.1% 213,474 1.2% -11.9%
United Express/ExpressJet 1,539 0.0% 4,056 0.0% -62.1%
United Express/GoJet 28,950 0.2% 7,397 0.0% 291.4%
United Express/Mesa 153,874 0.9% 150,198 0.9% 2.4%
United Expres/Republic 179,621 1.0% 144,714 0.8% 24.1%
United Express/Shuttle America - #VALUE! 579 0.0% #VALUE!
United Express/SkyWest 71,605 0.4% 57,789 0.3% 23.9%
United Express/TransStates 230 0.0% 1460 0.0% -84.2%

Frontier Frontier 154,127 0.9% 193,778 1.1% -20.5%

JetBlue JetBlue 138,602 0.8% 142,408 0.8% -2.7%

Alaska Alaska 94,259 0.5% 82,860 0.5% 13.8%

Lufthansa Lufthansa 93,163 0.5% 79,344 0.5% 17.4%

Air France Air France 76,796 0.4% 73,544 0.4% 4.4%

AeroMexico (Combined) 55,797 0.3% 28,888 0.2% 93.1%
AeroMexico 28,442 0.2% 28,888 0.2% -1.5%
AeroMexico Connect 27,355 0.2% - 0.0% #DIV/0!

Air Canada/Air Georgian Air Canada/Air Georgian 46,745 0.3% 42,359 0.2% 10.4%

WOWair WOWair 23,581 0.1% 0 0.0% #DIV/0!

Royal Jordanian Royal Jordanian 16,994 0.1% 14,728 0.1% 15.4%

Miscellaneous Carriers Miscellaneous Carriers 434 0.0% 2,799 0.0% -84.5%

Virgin Atlantic Virgin Atlantic 0 0.0% 7,614 0.0% -100.0%

Grand Total Totals 17,608,382 100.0% 17,325,600 100.0% 1.6%
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:46 am

Key takeways -

Delta up 1%
Spirit up 14%
American down 10.5%
Southwest down 1.5%
United up 7.6% (despite mainline down 11.9%)

Everyone else makes up a combined 4% of emplanements.
 
seanpmassey
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:00 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Tram is down until early-April for planned maintenance and software upgrades.

That said, I do agree at first glance it seems like a lengthy shutdown, but I don't know all the specifics of the duration and effort necessary to perform such work.

While is saves a bunch of walking, the tram generally doesn't save a significant amount of time when you consider having to navigate up/down the escalators at each station, wait for the train, etc. If you just miss a tram at one of the end stations, its faster to the mid-station with a brisk walk and moving sidewalks than waiting for the next tram.


I've only used the tram once, and that was when my inbound flight from Vegas was delayed, and we only had about 10-15 minutes to catch our connecting flight. And since it was the last bank of the night, we didn't want to miss that connection.

Otherwise, I usually just walk the concourse with some assistance from the walkways. Over the last six months, most of my inbounds have been on CR2s anyway, so I usually arrive in B and come out at the midpoint, so the the tram wouldn't save me that much time.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:07 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
On one hand, I wonder why I bother to post this since it will probably cause a riot and flame war, but I would rather debate data than hyperpole.

Year-End 2018 DTW Stats were released today.
Largest passenger count since 2007, prior to the Great Recession.
#18 for passenger count in the US.

Here is the write-up from the Freep:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/busin ... 770242002/

Here is my summary of the data from the WCAA website - using passenger emplanements. (I apologize in advance for any minor math or rounding errors:

Enplanements % Change YOY
Jan 1,210,885 -0.9%
Feb 1,177,863 -1.7%
Mar 1,531,911 1.8%
Apr 1,421,253 1.8%
May 1,541,626 1.1%
Jun 1,606,965 3.1%
July 1,651,636 5.0%
Aug 1,670,225 3.9%
Sep 1,429,444 1.0%
Oct 1,540,458 0.1%
Nov 1,421,027 1.3%
Dec 1,403,955 2.2%

2018 YTD 17,608,382 1.6%


Thank you for sharing this data. I like the fact that international travel is way up at DTW meaning that only more of the same will stimulate more growth at DTW. Still not happy about the 1.6 growth rate as Delta could do better as far as making Detroit more connection friendly but that's another story. The truth growth at DTW is going to come from new carriers entering Detroit which in turn will force Delta growth at DTW. Detroit with it's world class faculty should be able to crack the top 15 and while it may have had it's best record since 2007 it still has not kept pace with the growth of other airline hubs.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:15 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Key takeways -

Delta up 1%
Spirit up 14%
American down 10.5%
Southwest down 1.5%
United up 7.6% (despite mainline down 11.9%)

Everyone else makes up a combined 4% of emplanements.


I think the bigger surprise is LH being up 17% and RJ up 4%. Yes Delta up only 1% is a shock they should be at at least 5% growth rate at DTW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3280
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:40 pm

For the summer stretch (beginning in early June and terminating in early September), the Super 80 will make a cameo appearance on a daily flight from DFW for AA. By that point, there should be fewer than 20 remaining in the fleet, and given they’ll be phased out by the end of the year, it’s the final call...

Oh boy, I feel like a kid in high school again when AA was flying its new generation F-100, MD-82/83 and 738 to ORD, DFW and MIA and all of a sudden they randomly put a 72S on a DFW run and I had to be on it - even though I had previously went out of my way to avoid it.
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