GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:02 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Excellent article by our airpot's news site on the AA MD-80 retirement
https://blueskypit.com/2019/08/30/final ... of-an-era/

Still remember the silver Mad Dogs being a fixture at the end of Concourse D (and later Concourse B) for years.


I also remember those few awkward years where AA parked seemingly roughly 25% of their entire small CR7 fleet on DFW-PIT (I think it peaked at like 7x daily) so they could save money by eliminating their extremely senior staff at PIT.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:47 am

GSP psgr wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Excellent article by our airpot's news site on the AA MD-80 retirement
https://blueskypit.com/2019/08/30/final ... of-an-era/

Still remember the silver Mad Dogs being a fixture at the end of Concourse D (and later Concourse B) for years.


I also remember those few awkward years where AA parked seemingly roughly 25% of their entire small CR7 fleet on DFW-PIT (I think it peaked at like 7x daily) so they could save money by eliminating their extremely senior staff at PIT.


Most of the senior staff will be gone in a few years once they hit retirement. AA is just waiting them out
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2000
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:03 am

Senior AA staff....not US staff....almost all of the senior AA people are long gone, they were laid off in early 2006.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:37 am

The Port Authority is considering 24 hour bus service to the airport (as well as to a few other areas):
https://www.wesa.fm/post/plans-24-hour-bus-routes-works-parts-allegheny-county#stream/0
FLYi
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:45 am

Curious about LSG SkyChefs at PIT. I believe this is the only deep-frown manufacturing facility for them in the US, servicing the US, Caribbean, and South American markets. Supposedly this site also produces sandwiches for 7-Eleven stores. Any idea how this business is doing? Any expansion plans?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:10 am

flyPIT wrote:
The Port Authority is considering 24 hour bus service to the airport (as well as to a few other areas):
https://www.wesa.fm/post/plans-24-hour-bus-routes-works-parts-allegheny-county#stream/0


PAT has always seemed to lag behind cities like Baltimore, Cleveland and Detroit - each of which have 24-hour bus service. Took them long enough...
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:21 am

I don't know, I was a PAT hater for years but this new wave of management really seems to get it. They've done quite a lot of major stuff within their crazy budget constraints that deserves some applause. It started with connect cards, then continued with the real-time GPS tracking, digital boards downtown with arrival times, and redesigned mapping from the same designer MTA and London. Some of this is catch-up, but some of it is also light-years ahead of cities of similar size. I'm pretty harsh sometimes but theyre pressing all the right buttons the last few years. Would love to see them get ahold of a proper budget in a few years, but that's probably a pipe dream with our PA legislature that tilts rural.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:59 am

flyPIT wrote:
The Port Authority is considering 24 hour bus service to the airport (as well as to a few other areas):
https://www.wesa.fm/post/plans-24-hour-bus-routes-works-parts-allegheny-county#stream/0


Honestly, I'd settle for a 28X that skipped Robinson Township Mall.....
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:24 am

GSP psgr wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
The Port Authority is considering 24 hour bus service to the airport (as well as to a few other areas):
https://www.wesa.fm/post/plans-24-hour-bus-routes-works-parts-allegheny-county#stream/0


Honestly, I'd settle for a 28X that skipped Robinson Township Mall.....


Also agreed. At least the newest articulated buses have small luggage racks.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:06 pm

Agree, the PAT transit system seems to have shaken their 'we drive buses' mentality and operational thinking.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:43 am

Air Canada has modified their YYZ-PIT schedule. Will operate with 1x daily Jazz Q400 and 3x daily Air Georgian CRJ2s for September, go all Jazz CRJs in October, then drop down to 3x daily in November.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:53 pm

So for those who are keeping track, with the exception of the next two and a half weeks when the Q400 operates one of the flights, capacity will mirror that of last year as well as what is loaded for next year through August..

The Q400 will increase capacity by 28 seats. Interesting the block times are only one minute longer with the Q400 on the flight.


Spirit has been upgauging PIT-LAX to an A320 the past few days and as of now the A320 is scheduled on the route for the next two months.
FLYi
 
JamesRenard
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm

From today's OAG thread, WN has slightly beefed up service to DAL, FLL and RSW for December.
Potential for permanent x2 daily to DAL next year?
 
Delta28L
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:07 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
From today's OAG thread, WN has slightly beefed up service to DAL, FLL and RSW for December.
Potential for permanent x2 daily to DAL next year?


FLL and RSW must be a response to NK increasing their offering due to SWA MAX cuts. SWA probably doesn’t want to lose to much market share.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:07 pm

Due to the pilots strike, BA171/170 will not operate this upcoming Tuesday.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:10 am

And it looks like BA170 tonight has been cancelled, so we currently have a 787 stuck here for the time being.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA170
 
kpitrrat
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:51 pm

Runway28L wrote:
And it looks like BA170 tonight has been cancelled, so we currently have a 787 stuck here for the time being.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA170


FWIW they have known about the upcoming strike for a while now and it was planned that 170 would terminate on Sun and go back out on Tuesday as 171.
 
Gsasala
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:48 am

Looks like Omni air is sending a 767-200 from Shannon
OY565 from Shannon to Pittsburgh https://fr24.com/OAE565/220a30de
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 pm

Ms. Cassotis continues to grease the wheels with Akbar al Baker, CEO of Qatar airways at various conferences, the latest being The Trinity Forum which is the industry's premier conference dealing with commercial revenues at airports.

"Delegates will have outstanding networking opportunities during the event. There will be a golf event on the afternoon before the conference begins (29 October), a city tour on the morning of 30 October and the Opening Cocktail event, sponsored by Diageo, on the evening of 30 October. The Forum will conclude on the evening of 31 October with a Gala Dinner hosted by Hamad International Airport, Qatar Airways and Qatar Duty Free, with spirits and wines kindly provided by Pernod Ricard. "
https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/alibaba-duo-and-other-industry-heavyweights-join-powerful-speaker-line-up-for-the-trinity-forum/

Some very nice fringe benefits at these conferences no doubt but as long as the networking bears fruit in the years ahead then I'm all for it.

This actually looks like a good event for that purpose; what I noticed is Alibaba will have some higher ups there too. Alibaba is developing its own air network much like Amazon has done and will no doubt offer flights to the US at some point.
FLYi
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5363
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:37 pm

Blue sky question: If somehow a PIT-CLE-CHI highspeed rail line were built, do existing or probable rights of way support a way to include PIT (the airport) on such a system?

The most probable CLE-CHI rail line passes about 2000ft from CLE (the airport) and the Amtrak BWI stop is used by a LOT of DC and Wilmington air passengers. A PIT stop on such a line would probably be popular.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:56 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Blue sky question: If somehow a PIT-CLE-CHI highspeed rail line were built, do existing or probable rights of way support a way to include PIT (the airport) on such a system?

The most probable CLE-CHI rail line passes about 2000ft from CLE (the airport) and the Amtrak BWI stop is used by a LOT of DC and Wilmington air passengers. A PIT stop on such a line would probably be popular.


It's interesting to think about and PIT airport is certainly in a perfect position northwest of Pittsburgh to make this something to consider. Plus, PIT has plenty of land and parking. The problem is Pittsburgh's topography makes high speed and rail an oxymoron unless there are to be lots and lots of tunnels and bridges. But here again PIT airport could be the terminus of a Pittsburgh line with more conventional mass transit to connect the airport with the city.
FLYi
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:16 pm

WW is coming back. First route is KEF-IAD.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... ik-route-/
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:04 am

Going through United's schedule this month, it appears they will be running twice daily mainline on PIT-EWR during Sundays.

February 2019 Intl LF

AC
PIT-YUL 54% YUL-PIT 49%
*Data for YYZ not available*

DL
PIT-CUN 97% CUN-PIT 92%

G4
PIT-CUN 79% CUN-PIT 87%
PIT-POP 79% POP-PIT 67%
PIT-PUJ 92% PUJ-PIT 80%

*Data for Sunwing (WG) to/from PUJ not available*

May 2019 Domestic LF

WN
PIT-ATL 81% ATL-PIT 75%
PIT-BWI 83% BWI-PIT 71%
PIT-MDW 79% MDW-PIT 72%
PIT-DAL 83% DAL-PIT 91%
PIT-DEN 88% DEN-PIT 85%
PIT-FLL 96% FLL-PIT 93%
PIT-RSW 71% RSW-PIT 95%
PIT-HOU 78% HOU-PIT 84%
PIT-LAS 89% LAS-PIT 87%
PIT-LAX 92% LAX-PIT 88%
PIT-BNA 81% BNA-PIT 91%
PIT-MSY 45% MSY-PIT 87%
PIT-MCO 91% MCO-PIT 92%
PIT-PHX 89% PHX-PIT 94%
PIT-STL 86% STL-PIT 92%
PIT-TPA 90% TPA-PIT 93%

AA
PIT-CLT 86.5% CLT-PIT 88.5%
PIT-ORD 80.5% ORD-PIT 79.5%
PIT-DFW 84% DFW-PIT 86%
PIT-MIA 90% MIA-PIT 90.5%
PIT-JFK 86% JFK-PIT 72%
PIT-LGA 73.67% LGA-PIT 70.25%
PIT-PHL 84% PHL-PIT 86.75%
PIT-PHX 91% PHX-PIT 93%
PIT-RDU 96.5% RDU-PIT 93%
PIT-DCA 67.3% DCA-PIT 77.3%

DL
PIT-ATL 85% ATL-PIT 88%
PIT-BOS 77.5% BOS-PIT 71%
PIT-DTW 72.5% DTW-PIT 74.3%
PIT-MSP 76.67% MSP-PIT 78.5%
PIT-JFK 82% JFK-PIT 70%
PIT-LGA 65.5% LGA-PIT 63.5%
PIT-SLC 93% SLC-PIT 92%

UA
PIT-ORD 85% ORD-PIT 80.75%
PIT-DEN 87% DEN-PIT 91%
PIT-IAH 82% IAH-PIT 88.5%
PIT-EWR 83.5% EWR-PIT 80.5%
PIT-SFO 90% SFO-PIT 88%
PIT-IAD 88.5% IAD-PIT 85%

G4
PIT-AUS 91% AUS-PIT 93%
PIT-CHS 79% CHS-PIT 76%
PIT-JAX 87% JAX-PIT 90%
PIT-TYS 62% TYS-PIT 62%
PIT-MYR 69% MYR-PIT 57%
PIT-MSY 82% MSY-PIT 85%
PIT-PGD 86% PDG-PIT 92%
PIT-SFB 89% SFB-PIT 88%
PIT-SRQ 87% SRQ-PIT 92%
PIT-SAV 83% SAV-PIT 74%
PIT-PIE 89% PIE-PIT 92%
PIT-VPS 82% VPS-PIT 74%

NK
PIT-FLL 88% FLL-PIT 90%
PIT-RSW 38% RSW-PIT 88% *only one flight in each direction operated that month*
PIT-LAS 95% LAS-PIT 94%
PIT-LAX 94% LAX-PIT 88%
PIT-MYR 76% MYR-PIT 79%
PIT-MCO 91% MCO-PIT 94%
PIT-TPA 68% TPA-PIT 95% *only one flight in each direction operated that month*

B6
PIT-BOS 78% BOS-PIT 76%

AS
PIT-SEA 95% SEA-PIT 86%

F9
PIT-DEN 96% DEN-PIT 95%

9X
PIT-AOO 30% AOO-PIT 27%
PIT-BFD 33% BFD-PIT 32%
PIT-DUJ 27% DUJ-PIT 21%
PIT-FKL 20% FKL-PIT 20%
PIT-HGR 44% HGR-PIT 37%
PIT-LNS 50% LNS-PIT 49%
PIT-MGW 30% MGW-PIT 30%

4B
PIT-JST 52% JST-PIT 57%
 
acentauri
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:43 am

masseybrown wrote:
Blue sky question: If somehow a PIT-CLE-CHI highspeed rail line were built, do existing or probable rights of way support a way to include PIT (the airport) on such a system?

The most probable CLE-CHI rail line passes about 2000ft from CLE (the airport) and the Amtrak BWI stop is used by a LOT of DC and Wilmington air passengers. A PIT stop on such a line would probably be popular.

I'd speculate that MOST Wilmington air passengers use PHL, including Biden (when in DE) - I actually sat in front of him on a flight from Philly several years ago. Why would they use BWI, which is 4 x further (PHL is less than 20 mi from Wilmington) and offers significantly fewer options than PHL, particularly international. Unless of course, you're in LOVE with LUV. Just my :twocents:
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:59 am

flyPIT wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
Blue sky question: If somehow a PIT-CLE-CHI highspeed rail line were built, do existing or probable rights of way support a way to include PIT (the airport) on such a system?

The most probable CLE-CHI rail line passes about 2000ft from CLE (the airport) and the Amtrak BWI stop is used by a LOT of DC and Wilmington air passengers. A PIT stop on such a line would probably be popular.


It's interesting to think about and PIT airport is certainly in a perfect position northwest of Pittsburgh to make this something to consider. Plus, PIT has plenty of land and parking. The problem is Pittsburgh's topography makes high speed and rail an oxymoron unless there are to be lots and lots of tunnels and bridges. But here again PIT airport could be the terminus of a Pittsburgh line with more conventional mass transit to connect the airport with the city.


I agree with FlyPIT's remark that it would probably be better/more feasible to have a rail line linking Downtown Pittsburgh with Cleveland and Chicago, providing direct access via Port Authority to the airport. That said, I don't think such a rail line will ever happen. Chicago to Cleveland perhaps is more realistic, but sadly I see Pittsburgh being left out. It's a shame because personally I feel Pittsburgh ties in more with the Midwest than the Northeast.

On WW restarting, I just hope they're smarter/wiser with their expansion plans.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:46 pm

Runway28L wrote:
May 2019 Domestic LF
WN PIT-LAX 92% LAX-PIT 88%

Nice to see WN take a page out of F9's book and drop a route with 90% LFs

DL PIT-BOS 77.5% BOS-PIT 71%
B6 PIT-BOS 78% BOS-PIT 76%

Looks like all the added capacity to BOS is slowly but surely being absorbed.

G4 PIT-AUS 91% AUS-PIT 93%

Like I said the previous month this route needs more capacity not less.

F9 PIT-DEN 96% DEN-PIT 95%

Not sure how F9 is sustaining this route with such loads :sarcastic:



steeler83 wrote:
I agree with FlyPIT's remark that it would probably be better/more feasible to have a rail line linking Downtown Pittsburgh with Cleveland and Chicago, providing direct access via Port Authority to the airport.

Actually I suggested the exact opposite. Its a moot point anyway as there will never be high speed rail anywhere near Pittsburgh.

It's a shame because personally I feel Pittsburgh ties in more with the Midwest than the Northeast.

I think you're in the minority here; most people in Pittsburgh associate Pittsburgh with the Northeast more than the Midwest.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Terminating any kind of high speed transit at the airport would never make it off the drawing boards. Kinda defeats the purpose of rail transit (which is city center to city center, linking with as many transit lines as possible).

Oddly enough, if anything seems to have steam at all, it's the Chicago – Columbus – Pittsburgh Hyperloop proposal, mostly because of the financial push from the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission.
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190806/ ... rloop-tour

Still a pipe dream.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 858
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:30 pm

flyPIT wrote:
I think you're in the minority here; most people in Pittsburgh associate Pittsburgh with the Northeast more than the Midwest.


I'm not quite sure where Pittsburgh and Buffalo stand. They're not really Northeast, Mid-Atlantic or East Coast. Not really Midwest either. I've live in both regions and most individuals don't consider either city as a part of these groups. I know the US Government considers Pittsburgh and Buffalo NE because they are in NE states but they aren't East Coast like Philly and NYC.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5363
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:47 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Terminating any kind of high speed transit at the airport would never make it off the drawing boards.


My putative HSR route was Pittsburgh - PIT Airport - Akron or Youngstown - Cleveland - CLE airport - Toledo - Ft. Wayne or South Bend - Chicago. Adding the two airports would provide a nice boost to ridership at little time cost, as EWR and BWI stops do in the NYC-WAS corridor. I never meant to suggest the airport as a terminus.

I agree with all posters that any rail route is a tough proposition, Lately though the state governments of PA, IN, and IL have supported rail and OH's new governor has a rail-friendly past; so it might not be as Sisyphean a task as before.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:07 pm

masseybrown wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Terminating any kind of high speed transit at the airport would never make it off the drawing boards.


My putative HSR route was Pittsburgh - PIT Airport - Akron or Youngstown - Cleveland - CLE airport - Toledo - Ft. Wayne or South Bend - Chicago. Adding the two airports would provide a nice boost to ridership at little time cost, as EWR and BWI stops do in the NYC-WAS corridor. I never meant to suggest the airport as a terminus.

I agree with all posters that any rail route is a tough proposition, Lately though the state governments of PA, IN, and IL have supported rail and OH's new governor has a rail-friendly past; so it might not be as Sisyphean a task as before.


I like your optimism, and wish I could be more of one on this subject. The problem with PA's governor is that he's a bit powerless to our heavily gerrymandered state legislature. It's dominated by rural conservatives who think that they give too much money to the cities to subsidize transit already (which isn't the case). I do love the idea of connecting the airport on this line though, it would kill two birds with one stone if the rail line could be built to support regular service between downtown PGH and the airport, replacing the 28X bus.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:45 pm

masseybrown wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Terminating any kind of high speed transit at the airport would never make it off the drawing boards.


My putative HSR route was Pittsburgh - PIT Airport - Akron or Youngstown - Cleveland - CLE airport - Toledo - Ft. Wayne or South Bend - Chicago. Adding the two airports would provide a nice boost to ridership at little time cost, as EWR and BWI stops do in the NYC-WAS corridor. I never meant to suggest the airport as a terminus.

I agree with all posters that any rail route is a tough proposition, Lately though the state governments of PA, IN, and IL have supported rail and OH's new governor has a rail-friendly past; so it might not be as Sisyphean a task as before.

I guess Kasich is no longer the governor? Come to think of it, I do seem to remember him getting voted out. I remember when he took office, the first think he did was kill the Ohio rail hub proposal. Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati was to be the first corridor, with other corridors linking Cleveland with Detroit, Chicago, and Pittsburgh coming later.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:46 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I like your optimism, and wish I could be more of one on this subject. The problem with PA's governor is that he's a bit powerless to our heavily gerrymandered state legislature. It's dominated by rural conservatives who think that they give too much money to the cities to subsidize transit already (which isn't the case)

"Rural conservatives" already give a disproportionate amount to the big city's transit agencies. The rural areas - which in most cases have zero mass transit - pay state taxes which help fund PAT and SEPTA. Then add the travesty that is ACT 44 in which the PA Turnpike must fork over $450 million every year to PennDot in order to help fund mass transit.

Even in Allegheny County only 7% of residents use mass transit (which is actually a high number compared to peer cities) yet 100% of taxpayers are in one form or another funding PAT.

I'm all for mass transit in the big cities but expecting the rural areas to increase their burden isn't the way about it.
FLYi
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:03 pm

Today's tragic crash in Toledo reminds me of a little known crash that happened with a Shorts Skyvan as it approached PIT this month in 1996.

This aircraft....

...being flown single pilot was operating a feeder flight for UPS from CKB when it ran out of gas on approach to 10L. It miraculously landed at dusk or night on a road a few miles short of the runway and no one was killed.


Crash of a Short SC.7 Skyvan Variant in Pittsburgh
Date & Time: Sep 16, 1996 at 2200 LT
Type of aircraft: Short SC.7 Skyvan Variant
Operator: North Star Air Cargo
Registration: N10DA
Flight Phase: Landing (descent or approach)
Flight Type: Cargo
Survivors: Yes
Site: Airport (less than 10 km from airport)
Schedule: Clarksburg-Pittsburgh
MSN: 1873
YOM: 1969
Flight number: SBX1215
Location: Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
Country: United States of America
Region: North America
Crew on board: 1
Crew fatalities:
Pax fatalities:
Other fatalities:
Total fatalities: 0
Captain / Total flying hours: 11000
Captain / Total hours on type: 1100.00
Aircraft flight hours: 18553


https://www.baaa-acro.com/operator/north-star-air-cargo

What I remember about this is how miraculously fortunate the pilot was, and I remember a picture in the paper of the scene (which I am unable to find) showing this Skyvan converted to a van with clipped wings sitting on a narrow country road.

Whoever updates the PIT wikipedia page should probably add this one to the "Accidents and Incidents" section.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:11 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"Rural conservatives" already give a disproportionate amount to the big city's transit agencies. The rural areas - which in most cases have zero mass transit - pay state taxes which help fund PAT and SEPTA. Then add the travesty that is ACT 44 in which the PA Turnpike must fork over $450 million every year to PennDot in order to help fund mass transit.

Even in Allegheny County only 7% of residents use mass transit (which is actually a high number compared to peer cities) yet 100% of taxpayers are in one form or another funding PAT.

I'm all for mass transit in the big cities but expecting the rural areas to increase their burden isn't the way about it.



This keeps getting trotted out to squash investment in new transit, yet PennDOT themselves have come out and said that rural roads are subsidized at a higher rate than mass transit, and most of that funding comes from taxpayers in urban areas:
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/ ... s-transit/

“We actually subsidize rural roads at a much higher rate than we subsidize mass transit. If you think about a two lane road – if it doesn’t carry at least 10,000 vehicles a day, it’s being subsidized.”

Schoch says most rural roads carry fewer than 2-thousand vehicles. And he says most of Penn Dot’s revenue comes from vehicle fees and gas taxes; the lion’s share of which is paid by residents in Pennsylvania’s urban areas.


Every citizen pays into mass transit because it helps everyone – actual proper transit equals less cars on the roads.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:27 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
"Rural conservatives" already give a disproportionate amount to the big city's transit agencies. The rural areas - which in most cases have zero mass transit - pay state taxes which help fund PAT and SEPTA. Then add the travesty that is ACT 44 in which the PA Turnpike must fork over $450 million every year to PennDot in order to help fund mass transit.

Even in Allegheny County only 7% of residents use mass transit (which is actually a high number compared to peer cities) yet 100% of taxpayers are in one form or another funding PAT.

I'm all for mass transit in the big cities but expecting the rural areas to increase their burden isn't the way about it.



Except this is not true, yet it keeps getting trotted out to squash investment in new transit. PennDOT themselves have come out and said that rural roads are subsidized at a higher rate than mass transit, and most of that funding comes from taxpayers in urban areas:
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/ ... s-transit/


But now you're comparing the funding of transit AND roads in rural areas. It's not like transit doesn't use roads in urban areas. We can go back and forth all day but the reality is there will never be true financial equality when it comes to collecting and spending taxpayer money. Right or wrong some people contribute more, some benefit more. Back to the topic I fail to see how taxing rural areas even more for mass transit in the big cities will get support (or even if it should get support). Spending should come as part of an infrastructure spending plan at the federal level in conjunction with a dedicated tax on the County level.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:47 pm

flyPIT wrote:
But now you're comparing the funding of transit AND roads in rural areas. It's not like transit doesn't use roads in urban areas. We can go back and forth all day but the reality is there will never be true financial equality when it comes to collecting and spending taxpayer money. Right or wrong some people contribute more, some benefit more. Back to the topic I fail to see how taxing rural areas even more for mass transit in the big cities will get support (or even if it should get support). Spending should come as part of an infrastructure spending plan at the federal level in conjunction with a dedicated tax on the County level.


It's all linked. I agree that there won't be full financial equality. But if we are talking about an interstate rail/tube transportation proposal linking many nodes (some big cities, some small cities, some airports), it benefits everyone just like an airport – even rural folks who will drive to the next county to hop the HSR/hyperloop to Chicago. Ideally all three levels of government would join forces, but realistically we just need to get it done however we can. If the federal government is useless, then it's in these state's best interests to figure it out together. You can't just leave it up to the counties that the rail line passes through – it will take state approval to get it built.

So yes, I do think our state legislature needs to get over this debate and fund these things. In order to pull this off, we have to put to rest this notion that rural folks' money is being taken from them and squandered on mass transit spending. It effects everyone, especially the overall economic wellbeing of the whole state.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:43 pm

My point is rural folks are ALREADY contributing to mass transit spending in urban areas yet they have none of their own, nor do they need it. Yes, urban folks are funding roads in rural areas but the reciprocal is also true. I think you are overstating the benefits to rural areas as well. Take hyperloop for example. In no way will it stop in every county. If it is truly going to go from Pittsburgh to Columbus in 30 minutes then the only way that will happen is if it is nonstop. The Zanesvilles and Newarks of Ohio get bypassed and the farmers have this ugly suspended tube cutting across their farms that they can't access. Pgh to Chi in under an hour and a half? United, American, and Southwest will do that. It boggles the mind that potentially billions might be spent on a system that offers less utility than an airliner (unlike hyperloop tubes, airplanes can be rescheduled to meet demand somewhere else) for the same or less speed, as well as substantially less accessibility than interstates or even conventional HSR. The "city center to city center" argument doesn't hold water either as like air travel the majority of users of HSR/hyperloop will come from outside the downtowns. For half the metro area it is easier to get to the airport than it is downtown and that will increase once the beltway is complete.
FLYi
 
Flaps
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:42 pm

Set aside all funding and policy issues when it comes to HSR and PIT. It's not going to happen simply because Pittsburghs tortured topography makes both construction and operation astronomically expensive. It will never be economically viable.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:05 pm

Yet it somehow works in Switzerland…and parts of China that are very mountainous.

Don’t disagree with your point flaps but our infrastructure is so severely lagging.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:51 am

ncflyer wrote:
Yet it somehow works in Switzerland…and parts of China that are very mountainous.

Don’t disagree with your point flaps but our infrastructure is so severely lagging.


I lived in Switzerland. The system works very well. The Alps are far more challenging than Pittsburgh's hills. All the nay-sayers sound like old Pittsburgh talking.....grandparents, great-grandparents. It's a matter of priorities. Governments are still in love with cars and trucks. Look at the billions spent on the next congestion headache, the southern beltway. Once all of those interchanges are built up, same problems as now with the other highways. Imagine the money spent on transit. The Pittsburgh area transit system would be doing well. People will choose transit over the car, if the system is built with the population in mind. There is also the generational change happening. Cars ownership will be declining. Even GM admits that will happen and will be shutting down more assembly plants. Build for the future.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:00 pm

"Wider runway at Arnold Palmer airport depends on FAA funding"
https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/wider-runway-at-arnold-palmer-airport-depends-on-faa-funding/


"Business To Support Jamestown Airport"
"The county’s business community has pledged the financial support needed to possibly return federal funding for commercial air service to the Chautauqua County-Jamestown Airport"
https://www.post-journal.com/news/local-news/2019/09/business-to-support-jamestown-airport/
FLYi
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:00 pm

That runway widening project looks rather intriguing. When they shut down the runway for 16 weeks, I'm guessing NK will shift ops temporarily over to PIT?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2837
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:06 pm

steeler83 wrote:
That runway widening project looks rather intriguing. When they shut down the runway for 16 weeks, I'm guessing NK will shift ops temporarily over to PIT?


It is 16 DAYS. Guessing Spirit just wont run for those 2 weeks.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:19 pm

steeler83 wrote:
That runway widening project looks rather intriguing. When they shut down the runway for 16 weeks, I'm guessing NK will shift ops temporarily over to PIT?


There were plans to convert the taxi way into a temporary runway so the airport could still function. Other airports have done it and plus LBE isn’t that busy during the day where they can land on the temp runway and back taxi down to the ramp.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:28 pm

Delta28L wrote:
There were plans to convert the taxi way into a temporary runway so the airport could still function. Other airports have done it and plus LBE isn’t that busy during the day where they can land on the temp runway and back taxi down to the ramp.


Source? I have never read anything to suggest anything of the sort. At only 50' wide such a scheme would be limited to non-commercial VFR operations. Would be easier to get approval to re-open the existing secondary runway to allow the general aviation operations to continue.
FLYi
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
That runway widening project looks rather intriguing. When they shut down the runway for 16 weeks, I'm guessing NK will shift ops temporarily over to PIT?


It is 16 DAYS. Guessing Spirit just wont run for those 2 weeks.

:banghead:

My bad... meant to put days instead of weeks. Argh!!

Well in any event, if they're going to convert the taxiway to a temporary runway while they do extensive construction work on the runway that probably won't impact NK too much...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:44 pm

steeler83 wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Terminating any kind of high speed transit at the airport would never make it off the drawing boards.


My putative HSR route was Pittsburgh - PIT Airport - Akron or Youngstown - Cleveland - CLE airport - Toledo - Ft. Wayne or South Bend - Chicago. Adding the two airports would provide a nice boost to ridership at little time cost, as EWR and BWI stops do in the NYC-WAS corridor. I never meant to suggest the airport as a terminus.

I agree with all posters that any rail route is a tough proposition, Lately though the state governments of PA, IN, and IL have supported rail and OH's new governor has a rail-friendly past; so it might not be as Sisyphean a task as before.

I guess Kasich is no longer the governor? Come to think of it, I do seem to remember him getting voted out. I remember when he took office, the first think he did was kill the Ohio rail hub proposal. Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati was to be the first corridor, with other corridors linking Cleveland with Detroit, Chicago, and Pittsburgh coming later.


If I’m not mistaken, Kasich was term limited and couldn’t run for a third term.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:53 pm

Oh ok. Wow, didn't realize he served from 2011 to this year. Man, I thought the Ohio hub proposal was more recent than that. So, that goes back at least 10 or so years. I vividly remember him killing this proposal very early on in his first term.

It is pretty pathetic that only two (as far as I know) of our nation's biggest airports (EWR and BWI) are directly served by Amtrak. (I especially find it interesting that BWI Amtrak is busier than EWR according to wiki.) A few years back, a group of urban planning students at Penn put out a proposal to reroute Amtrak through Center City, which would include a new train station servicing PHL. While I love the idea of linking Amtrak with another major airport, I'm not in favor of rerouting high speed trains away from 30th Street Station, one of Amtrak's busiest stations.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:16 pm

steeler83 wrote:
That runway widening project looks rather intriguing. When they shut down the runway for 16 weeks, I'm guessing NK will shift ops temporarily over to PIT?

NK will indeed temporarily shift all of their LBE flights to PIT while the runway is closed next September. That is the latest word. This likely means PIT-MCO/FLL/MYR will see extra frequencies during that period.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:31 pm

6 out of 8 C-17s now on property at the 911th Airlift Wing.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos