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kpitrrat
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:05 pm

flyPIT wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
The ACAA board approved an $8 million dollar expenditure to add 2 acres of ramp space for the cargo carriers. I assume this will be to the immediate west of the current facilities as was discussed here a few months ago.
https://blueskypit.com/2019/09/23/e-commerce-helps-fuel-cargo-bump-across-airports/?utm_source=PITNewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PITNewsletter+(2019-09-23)&utm_content=featured+image&utm_term=1


I also imagine this would be erected immediately to the west of the current facilities. Are they going to add another hangar/warehouse/distribution facility as well? At first glance, adding 2 acres looks like they'd be making enough room to accommodate 2x 777s/747s.

So one square acre measures 208' x 208'.

The dimensions of a B763 is 156' (wingspan) x 180' (length)
The dimensions of a B748f is 225' (wingspan) x 250' (length)

Therefore a square acre would fit one B763 perfectly and would be way too small for a B748f. Other variables include the actual dimensions of this ramp (most likely not a perfect square) and will it include a taxi lane?

Considering the above I'm inclined to believe it will be large enough for 2 767s or 1 747.


I believe the expansion is simply to add more space. At the end where QR operates it’s extremely tight and there is very little room to maneuver cargo when offloading a full A/C. Expanding the ramp would give that operation more room and would make it easier for push-back as that hillside is rather close to the ramp. It gets a little sketchy pushing back in the dark in that corner.
 
Delta28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:28 pm

kpitrrat wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
steeler83 wrote:

I also imagine this would be erected immediately to the west of the current facilities. Are they going to add another hangar/warehouse/distribution facility as well? At first glance, adding 2 acres looks like they'd be making enough room to accommodate 2x 777s/747s.

So one square acre measures 208' x 208'.

The dimensions of a B763 is 156' (wingspan) x 180' (length)
The dimensions of a B748f is 225' (wingspan) x 250' (length)

Therefore a square acre would fit one B763 perfectly and would be way too small for a B748f. Other variables include the actual dimensions of this ramp (most likely not a perfect square) and will it include a taxi lane?

Considering the above I'm inclined to believe it will be large enough for 2 767s or 1 747.


I believe the expansion is simply to add more space. At the end where QR operates it’s extremely tight and there is very little room to maneuver cargo when offloading a full A/C. Expanding the ramp would give that operation more room and would make it easier for push-back as that hillside is rather close to the ramp. It gets a little sketchy pushing back in the dark in that corner.


If you look at google earth you can see they’ve already expanded the west side of the ramp and built another taxi way to the ramp expansion already.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:48 pm

kpitrrat wrote:
I believe the expansion is simply to add more space. At the end where QR operates it’s extremely tight and there is very little room to maneuver cargo when offloading a full A/C. Expanding the ramp would give that operation more room and would make it easier for push-back as that hillside is rather close to the ramp. It gets a little sketchy pushing back in the dark in that corner.

From the link provided:
"This will position us for future growth,” said Bryan Dietz, vice president of air service development. “This is about ensuring that our ramp infrastructure is not an impediment to growth for existing carriers – FedEx, UPS and Qatar Airways Cargo – and also positions us for new business to able to accommodate the needs of those carriers."

With QR taking the third spot at Cargo 3 there will definitely be constraints for UPS during Peak when they often have at least 3 aircraft on the ground simultaneously. I do wish they would have provided more details about this ramp expansion.
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:07 am

flyPIT wrote:
Some completely unrelated and random thoughts:

- Due to capacity restrictions at their CVG hub DHL is at the very early stages of developing a reliever operation at ORD. See article:
https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/dhl-express-adding-new-daily-ord-flights-to-free-up-cvg-hub-peak-season-capacity/

It will only be a few flights, but even that will allow their road feeder network to expand (diagram in article). Although DHL doesn't even serve PIT perhaps this was something the ACAA should have gone after... if they even knew about DHL searching for a second gateway. OTOH about a year ago I remember reading DHL was considering a second US hub.
.


Keep your eye out, DHL approached IND recently about this, "Due to global increases in the air cargo forwarding business and the need for DHL to establish an additional
location in the Midwest, DHL has identified IND as a location to expand its air cargo business"

Can't help but think they have approached PIT as well
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:25 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Keep your eye out, DHL approached IND recently about this, "Due to global increases in the air cargo forwarding business and the need for DHL to establish an additional
location in the Midwest, DHL has identified IND as a location to expand its air cargo business"

Can't help but think they have approached PIT as well

Yeah I remember that now that you mention it.

As far as DHL approaching PIT, I'm not so sure. PIT seems to be just outside that geographical sweet spot where integrators love to put their hubs. If DHL did in fact approach PIT, PIT would have been stupid not to offer them everything possible at all levels up to and including the State level. Plus, we all know how PIT is not shy about offering subsidies.

It still should have been something PIT should have gone after aggressively. It still offers a good location between the Midwest, Northeast, and Mid-Atlantic; plenty of big runways, land, etc. Makes me wonder if the ACAA even knew DHL was looking for another hub operation.
FLYi
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:07 pm

Wow. Totally forgot that the 777 and 747 were that large. I should have known that but didn't. My bad.

I'm thinking DHL wanted to look for a location that was strictly in the Midwest, which PIT is not (PIT is more or less on the fringe; on the boundary between the Midwest and Northeast.). I'm thinking if DHL did in fact approach PIT there likely would have been a press release about it. Didn't they have any flights into PIT some 10 to 15 years ago? I seem to remember seeing either a DC9 or a 727 in a DHL livery once during one of my visits several years back, and I thought the airport website listed them as a cargo service airline serving PIT.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:49 pm

steeler83 wrote:
Didn't they have any flights into PIT some 10 to 15 years ago? I seem to remember seeing either a DC9 or a 727 in a DHL livery once during one of my visits several years back, and I thought the airport website listed them as a cargo service airline serving PIT.


The first recollections I have of DHL at PIT are of Swearingen Metroliners. Here's a pic I took in the 1980's at the old FBO:

Image

As DHL grew in the US and volume increased, DHL's PIT operation increased with the use of two Air Tahoma Convair 580s.

Airborne Express meanwhile had been serving PIT for many years with DC-9s. After DHL acquired Airborne the Convairs went away and DHL continued to serve PIT with the former Airborne DC-9s as well as their own contracted 727s, both in the newer yellow scheme.

After DHL's plans to offer domestic express service failed miserably, DHL dismantled the entire former Airborne Express operation and returned to their roots by offering only international service to/from the US via their former CVG hub. But at this point flights to PIT never resumed and the Pittsburgh market is served via trucking to this day.

These days DHL seems to be doing very well in the US with their int'l parcel service, as the article suggests and I think they will make a return to PIT with aircraft at some point.

I also remember Kalitta regularly serving PIT in the early 1990's with DC-8s.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:28 am

I just took a look through Vacation Express' booking engine and noticed something. PIT-CUN is scheduled to run June 7-August 2, the normal period it typically operates. However, I'm also seeing February 16-April 5 having nonstops available. I don't recall the service ever operating during the Winter/Spring period, so perhaps this is new capacity being added here?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:53 am

The BlueSky site just had a piece on this:
https://blueskypit.com/2019/10/04/delta ... n-getaway/

OTOH, WN’s schedule to CUN is extremely limited, operating a whopping 6 flights for the year. Reminds me of their old PIT-PBI schedule.
FLYi
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:12 pm

What is DL using on PIT-CUN?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:06 pm

flyPIT wrote:
The BlueSky site just had a piece on this:
https://blueskypit.com/2019/10/04/delta ... n-getaway/

OTOH, WN’s schedule to CUN is extremely limited, operating a whopping 6 flights for the year. Reminds me of their old PIT-PBI schedule.

I don’t think that is confirmed. WN’s schedule right now only goes out to 4/13/20. The flight ran all the way out to August its first year, so I would be very surprised if PIT-CUN doesn’t show up in the next WN schedule extension.

steeler83 wrote:
What is DL using on PIT-CUN?

737-900ER.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:50 pm

Ravens coming in today on an Atlas Air B744.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5Y8086
 
pgh234
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:16 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Ravens coming in today on an Atlas Air B744.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5Y8086


Lol. I saw that 747 fly right over my house and said "WTF?"
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:57 pm

flyPIT wrote:
For those that like maps and layout plans of the airport, I came across this copy. Probably the nicest layout plan of PIT I've seen online:
http://www.iaff1038.org/documents/Fence_Gates.pdf


And here is probably the nicest layout plan I've come across of the airport in its original 1950's form:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71SQUajc%2B%2BL._AC_SL1250_.jpg

Image

A 2'x3' copy if this is available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Antiguos-Maps-Greater-Pittsburgh-Airport/dp/B07TYQVBKN/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Pittsburgh&m=A2YC10C5Q16LM1&qid=1570377579&s=merchant-items&sr=1-2
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:57 pm

According to Alaskaair.com, PIT-SEA is reverting back from the A320 to the B739 effective 2/15/20, but the seat map still shows the updated A320 cabin throughout the entire booking window. I believe it originally showed the route being permanently switched to the Airbus, so who knows what is going on here.

Also, Air Canada is dropping down to 2x daily CRJs in December on PIT-YYZ. Down a frequency compared to Dec 2018 it looks like.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:15 pm

The AC reduction is for two and a half weeks over the Holidays; 3x daily resumes Jan 2.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:34 pm

Anyone know what was up with the A321N flight to PHX today
https://fr24.com/data/flights/aa9671#226a27fc
 
Delta28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:43 pm

Gsasala wrote:
Anyone know what was up with the A321N flight to PHX today
https://fr24.com/data/flights/aa9671#226a27fc


Positioning flight to PHX so it can enter revenue service
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:00 am

Gsasala wrote:
Anyone know what was up with the A321N flight to PHX today
https://fr24.com/data/flights/aa9671#226a27fc

N400AN ferried PHX-PIT on 10/5 for a maintenance entry. Exited this afternoon.

Two new A21Ns should finally show up this week. N405AN and N407AN has their first flights at Hamburg recently after a 3-month long delay in deliveries.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 pm

Deja vu, especially the quotes from the film office.

"Pittsburgh airport lobbying American Airlines for LA nonstop"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2019/10/10/Pittsburgh-International-Airport-American-Airlines-Los-Angeles/stories/201910100150

There are some contradictions such as ....
"In an email to those stakeholders, Tyler Laughlin, government and corporate affairs manager for the Allegheny County Airport Authority, said American has provided feedback that it “is considering serving PIT nonstop to [Los Angeles International Airport] as early as 2020.”"

vs.
"In a statement this week, the airline did not exactly embrace the idea.
“We’re always evaluating our network and looking for new opportunities, but at this time we don’t have any plans to launch nonstop flights between LAX and PIT,” wrote spokesperson Nichelle Barrett.
"


Still hoping DL steps up.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:44 pm

Apologies that this has less to do with PIT overall, but it looks like we should no longer expect a potential announcement from EI anytime soon.

“'Huge issue' - Aer Lingus forced to postpone introduction of new routes between Dublin and US due to Airbus A321LR aircraft delays”
https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 82705.html
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:20 am

March 2019 Intl LF

AC PIT-YUL 63% YUL-PIT 53%
AC PIT-YYZ 70% YYZ-PIT 62%

G4 PIT-CUN 77% CUN-PIT 78%
G4 PIT-POP 81% POP-PIT 87%
G4 PIT-PUJ 89% PUJ-PIT 92%

DL PIT-CUN 91% CUN-PIT 95%

WN PIT-CUN 90% CUN-PIT 79%

April 2019 Intl LF

AC PIT-YUL 72% YUL-PIT 54%
AC PIT-YYZ 65% YYZ-PIT 66%

BA PIT-LHR 71% LHR-PIT 62%

G4 PIT-CUN 73% CUN-PIT 71%
G4 PIT-POP 75% POP-PIT 71%
G4 PIT-PUJ 78% PUJ-PIT 76%

DL PIT-CUN 89% CUN-PIT 89%

WN PIT-CUN 36% CUN-PIT 78% *only one flight in each direction that month*
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:16 am

June 2019 Domestic LF

WN
PIT-ATL 84% ATL-PIT 79%
PIT-BWI 82% BWI-PIT 80%
PIT-MDW 84% MDW-PIT 77%
PIT-DAL 87% DAL-PIT 93%
PIT-DEN 91% DEN-PIT 86%
PIT-FLL 92% FLL-PIT 93%
PIT-RSW 92% RSW-PIT 91%
PIT-HOU 87% HOU-PIT 93%
PIT-LAS 89% LAS-PIT 95%
PIT-LAX 88% LAX-PIT 91%
PIT-BNA 85% BNA-PIT 91%
PIT-MSY 42% MSY-PIT 47% *only one flight in each direction that month*
PIT-MCO 92% MCO-PIT 92%
PIT-PHX 94% PHX-PIT 92%
PIT-STL 88% STL-PIT 86%
PIT-TPA 88% TPA-PIT 88%

AA
PIT-CLT 86.5% CLT-PIT 90.3%
PIT-ORD 81% ORD-PIT 83.5%
PIT-DFW 82% DFW-PIT 84%
PIT-MIA 92.5% MIA-PIT 85%
PIT-JFK 91% JFK-PIT 77%
PIT-LGA 82.25% LGA-PIT 80.25%
PIT-PHL 85.3% PHL-PIT 85.23%
PIT-PHX 96% PHX-PIT 96%
PIT-RDU 93% RDU-PIT 90%
PIT-DCA 72.75% DCA-PIT 81.75

DL
PIT-ATL 89% ATL-PIT 87%
PIT-BOS 77.5% BOS-PIT 71.5%
PIT-DTW 83.4% DTW-PIT 78.2%
PIT-MSP 89% MSP-PIT 88.75%
PIT-JFK 81% JFK-PIT 77%
PIT-LGA 70.5% LGA-PIT 73%
PIT-MCO 93% MCO-PIT 94%
PIT-RDU 84% RDU-PIT 75%
PIT-SLC 97% SLC-PIT 96%

UA
PIT-ORD 80.5% ORD-PIT 86%
PIT-DEN 91% DEN-PIT 91.7%
PIT-IAH 80.5% IAH-PIT 89.3%
PIT-EWR 85% EWR-PIT 83.5%
PIT-SFO 93% SFO-PIT 94%
PIT-IAD 91.5% IAD-PIT 77.5%

G4
PIT-AUS 96% AUS-PIT 97%
PIT-CHS 85% CHS-PIT 86%
PIT-JAX 88% JAX-PIT 91%
PIT-TYS 58% TYS-PIT 55%
PIT-MYR 77% MYR-PIT 70%
PIT-MSY 83% MSY-PIT 87%
PIT-PGD 93% PGD-PIT 86%
PIT-SFB 94% SFB-PIT 90%
PIT-SRQ 91% SRQ-PIT 92%
PIT-SAV 88% SAV-PIT 80%
PIT-PIE 94% PIE-PIT 93%
PIT-VPS 84% VPS-PIT 80%

NK
PIT-FLL 90% FLL-PIT 85%
PIT-LAS 91% LAS-PIT 96%
PIT-LAX 86% LAX-PIT 86%
PIT-MYR 84% MYR-PIT 85%
PIT-MCO 89% MCO-PIT 87%

B6
PIT-BOS 79% BOS-PIT 79%

AS
PIT-SEA 92% SEA-PIT 88%

F9
PIT-DEN 95% DEN-PIT 95%

9X
PIT-AOO 28% AOO-PIT 30%
PIT-BFD 36% BFD-PIT 37%
PIT-DUJ 33% DUJ-PIT 34%
PIT-FKL 23% FKL-PIT 29%
PIT-HGR 53% HGR-PIT 46%
PIT-LNS 52% LNS-PIT 54%
PIT-MGW 26% MGW-PIT 30%

4B
PIT-JST 54% JST-PIT 54%

July 2019 Domestic LF

WN
PIT-ATL 82% ATL-PIT 82%
PIT-BWI 78% BWI-PIT 78%
PIT-MDW 81% MDW-PIT 77%
PIT-DAL 88% DAL-PIT 88%
PIT-DEN 92% DEN-PIT 88%
PIT-FLL 91% FLL-PIT 94%
PIT-RSW 90% RSW-PIT 88%
PIT-HOU 91% HOU-PIT 91%
PIT-LAS 91% LAS-PIT 90%
PIT-LAX 74% LAX-PIT 85%
PIT-BNA 90% BNA-PIT 85%
PIT-MCO 89% MCO-PIT 91%
PIT-PHX 91% PHX-PIT 90%
PIT-STL 91% STL-PIT 84%
PIT-TPA 89% TPA-PIT 86%

AA
PIT-CLT 85% CLT-PIT 86.5%
PIT-ORD 83.5% ORD-PIT 81.5%
PIT-DFW 83% DFW-PIT 84%
PIT-MIA 86.5% MIA-PIT 88%
PIT-JFK 79% JFK-PIT 75%
PIT-LGA 76.5% LGA-PIT 78.75%
PIT-PHL 80.75% PHL-PIT 82.7%
PIT-PHX 86% PHX-PIT 86%
PIT-RDU 88% RDU-PIT 82%
PIT-DCA 65% DCA-PIT 70.5%

DL
PIT-ATL 89% ATL-PIT 88%
PIT-BOS 72% BOS-PIT 73%
PIT-DTW 79.75% DTW-PIT 77.75%
PIT-MSP 90.3% MSP-PIT 91.75%
PIT-JFK 72% JFK-PIT 81%
PIT-LGA 66% LGA-PIT 70.5%
PIT-MCO 87% MCO-PIT 92%
PIT-RDU 85% RDU-PIT 70%
PIT-SLC 96% SLC-PIT 97%

UA
PIT-ORD 87.7% ORD-PIT 86.5%
PIT-DEN 92.7% DEN-PIT 92.7%
PIT-IAH 91.5% IAH-PIT 94.75%
PIT-EWR 68.3% EWR-PIT 82%
PIT-SFO 94% SFO-PIT 92%
PIT-IAD 90% IAD-PIT 88%

G4
PIT-AUS 98% AUS-PIT 93%
PIT-CHS 89% CHS-PIT 91%
PIT-JAX 89% JAX-PIT 92%
PIT-TYS 66% TYS-PIT 64%
PIT-MYR 84% MYR-PIT 78%
PIT-MSY 84% MSY-PIT 80%
PIT-PGD 93% PGD-PIT 93%
PIT-SFB 94% SFB-PIT 90%
PIT-SRQ 91% SRQ-PIT 93%
PIT-SAV 88% SAV-PIT 86%
PIT-PIE 93% PIE-PIT 92%
PIT-VPS 87% VPS-PIT 87%

NK
PIT-FLL 87% FLL-PIT 89%
PIT-LAS 78% LAS-PIT 81%
PIT-LAX 85% LAX-PIT 78%
PIT-MYR 89% MYR-PIT 91%
PIT-MCO 92% MCO-PIT 88%

B6
PIT-BOS 80% BOS-PIT 80%

AS
PIT-SEA 94% SEA-PIT 90%

F9
PIT-DEN 97% DEN-PIT 95%

9X
PIT-AOO 35% AOO-PIT 33%
PIT-BFD 46% BFD-PIT 48%
PIT-DUJ 39% DUJ-PIT 41%
PIT-FKL 30% FKL-PIT 32%
PIT-HGR 58% HGR-PIT 53%
PIT-LNS 54% LNS-PIT 50%
PIT-MGW 33% MGW-PIT 38%

4B
PIT-JST 54% JST-PIT 55%
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:26 am

The ones I'm noticing off the bat: DL is nailing it on SLC, UA on both SFO and IAD have really matured. AA seems to be sagging comparatively?

I'd really love to know how most of the LAX-bound traffic is flowing, connection wise.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:36 pm

Runway28L wrote:
March 2019 Intl LF
G4 PIT-POP 81% POP-PIT 87%

I'm pleasantly surprised at this, I thought POP wasn't doing quite that well.



Runway28L wrote:
Domestic LF
WN
PIT-PHX 94% PHX-PIT 92%
PIT-PHX 91% PHX-PIT 90%
AA
PIT-PHX 96% PHX-PIT 96%
PIT-PHX 86% PHX-PIT 86%

I'm still surprised G4 hasn't added Phoenix-Mesa from PIT


UA
PIT-SFO 93% SFO-PIT 94%
PIT-SFO 94% SFO-PIT 92%

Awesome to see UA do so well with their 2 daily flights. Yet LAX is still a bigger market.


G4
PIT-AUS 96% AUS-PIT 97%
PIT-AUS 98% AUS-PIT 93%

Just like prior months, this route is begging for more service. 2x weekly for 6 months? G4 can do better. We know F9 has some sort of aversion to PIT (97% LFs to DEN be damned) but I'm sensing the other ULCCs at PIT are also hesitant to add capacity. For example G4 serves CLE-SAV and IND-VPS daily yet many of the PIT routes are stuck at 2-3 times weekly, AUS being a prime example.

While PIT's fees have come down steadily I wonder if they are still a bit high for meaningful ULCC growth? On that note I think I forgot to post this from a few weeks ago:
"Pittsburgh International Airport to be debt free -- for now "
"The Allegheny County Airport Authority plans to pay off the remaining $77 million of debt, about half related to midfield, by the end of the year.

With board members giving the go ahead Friday, the authority will be retiring the vast majority of the debt five to seven years early, although a portion stretched to 2031
"
https://www.post-gazette.com/development/2019/09/21/Pittsburgh-International-Airport-to-be-debt-free-for-now/stories/201909210033

So for a couple years anyway the landing fees, etc and associated CPE could be significantly lower.

As far as NK I think PIT-AUS/SAN would be good routes based on recent performance by other carriers, and as mentioned PIT-AZA for G4.


PIT-TYS 58% TYS-PIT 55%
PIT-TYS 66% TYS-PIT 64%

I'd be surprised to see this one come back.


B6
PIT-BOS 79% BOS-PIT 79%
PIT-BOS 80% BOS-PIT 80%

Like last month, slow but steady absorption of the added capacity.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:28 am

I am very impressed with the load factors, the fact that SFO was Uniteds number one flight is saying something about Pittsburgh tech sector. AUS was also impressive I hope to see Delta jump onto that route. MIA needs to go to 3 time daily 175s or go mainline.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:44 am

PIT-AZA is currently unlikely for G4 due to it's length. Its too long for an out and back for one crew. They have been kicking around the idea of over-nighting crews and multi-day trips though. If something comes to fruition from that PIT-AZA would probably then be in the cards.
 
Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:59 am

Flaps wrote:
PIT-AZA is currently unlikely for G4 due to it's length. Its too long for an out and back for one crew. They have been kicking around the idea of over-nighting crews and multi-day trips though. If something comes to fruition from that PIT-AZA would probably then be in the cards.


They run MEM-OAK and it is only 1 mile difference from PIT-AZA. CVG-LAX is 100 miles longer.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:39 am

Gsasala wrote:
I am very impressed with the load factors, the fact that SFO was Uniteds number one flight is saying something about Pittsburgh tech sector. AUS was also impressive I hope to see Delta jump onto that route. MIA needs to go to 3 time daily 175s or go mainline.


My friends and I were both on PIT-SFO this past Thursday. I was the morning flight, they were the evening. Both flights were full. My RPU didn't clear as a 1K, and there were 20 seats in F, so I am assuming all F seats were actually sold. It has to be cranking money for UA from tech folks. I'd also imagine there's a fair bit of LAX traffic routing through. If it keeps growing, maybe we could see UA try PIT-LAX again?

About 4 years ago it was normal to have a whole row to yourself on the red-eyes on this route. Such a noticeable change.
 
Delta28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:19 am

AaronPGH wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
I am very impressed with the load factors, the fact that SFO was Uniteds number one flight is saying something about Pittsburgh tech sector. AUS was also impressive I hope to see Delta jump onto that route. MIA needs to go to 3 time daily 175s or go mainline.


My friends and I were both on PIT-SFO this past Thursday. I was the morning flight, they were the evening. Both flights were full. My RPU didn't clear as a 1K, and there were 20 seats in F, so I am assuming all F seats were actually sold. It has to be cranking money for UA from tech folks. I'd also imagine there's a fair bit of LAX traffic routing through. If it keeps growing, maybe we could see UA try PIT-LAX again?

About 4 years ago it was normal to have a whole row to yourself on the red-eyes on this route. Such a noticeable change.


Thanks to google and Uber and all the other tech companies based in California filling in the seats.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:49 pm

Gsasala wrote:
I am very impressed with the load factors, the fact that SFO was Uniteds number one flight is saying something about Pittsburgh tech sector. AUS was also impressive I hope to see Delta jump onto that route. MIA needs to go to 3 time daily 175s or go mainline.


Delta28L wrote:
Thanks to google and Uber and all the other tech companies based in California filling in the seats.


AaronPGH wrote:
It has to be cranking money for UA from tech folks. I'd also imagine there's a fair bit of LAX traffic routing through. If it keeps growing, maybe we could see UA try PIT-LAX again?

About 4 years ago it was normal to have a whole row to yourself on the red-eyes on this route. Such a noticeable change.



I wonder how much of this growth is really coming from the tech sector vs. the much improved economy compared to a few years ago, increased connections over United's expanded SFO hub, increased tourism, etc.

Having said that no doubt the tech sector has been contributing significantly. The amount of money the large tech companies have been spending on corporate travel has been increasing steadily. For example here are the rankings of the largest US spenders on corporate travel headquartered in the Bay Area with a large Pittsburgh presence:

Google
2018: #11
2017: #16
2016: #20
2015: #23

Uber
N/A

Apple (expanding their Pittsburgh footprint exponentially):
2018: #4
2017: #5
2016: #6
2015: #6

Facebook (expanding their Pittsburgh footprint exponentially):
2018: #18
2017: #32
2016: #41
2015: #55

Chevron has also been slowly rising through the rankings again. They have 400 corporate employees in Pittsburgh at their Appalachia HQ.
2018: #53
2017: #57
2016: #69
2015: #49

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Research/Corporate-Travel-100


IIRC when United took over the PIT-SFO route from US they operated it 1x daily with an A319. Currently it is 2x daily with a B739 and A320. With these loads I could see UA add a 3rd daily in the peak summer months before they add PIT-LAX.
FLYi
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:38 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Two new A21Ns should finally show up this week. N405AN and N407AN has their first flights at Hamburg recently after a 3-month long delay in deliveries.


Back-to-back arrivals from Hamburg XFW:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9707/history/20191012/0700Z/EDHI/KPIT

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9709/history/20191012/0800Z/EDHI/KPIT
FLYi
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:34 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Flaps wrote:
PIT-AZA is currently unlikely for G4 due to it's length. Its too long for an out and back for one crew. They have been kicking around the idea of over-nighting crews and multi-day trips though. If something comes to fruition from that PIT-AZA would probably then be in the cards.


They run MEM-OAK and it is only 1 mile difference from PIT-AZA. CVG-LAX is 100 miles longer.


Did I not say that they were kicking around the idea of over nighting and multi day trips?
 
Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:58 am

Flaps wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Flaps wrote:
PIT-AZA is currently unlikely for G4 due to it's length. Its too long for an out and back for one crew. They have been kicking around the idea of over-nighting crews and multi-day trips though. If something comes to fruition from that PIT-AZA would probably then be in the cards.


They run MEM-OAK and it is only 1 mile difference from PIT-AZA. CVG-LAX is 100 miles longer.


Did I not say that they were kicking around the idea of over nighting and multi day trips?


You said it was currently unlikely because it was too long to out and back for one crew. But they run other flights longer than PIT-AZA so that must not be the case.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:02 pm

...
Last edited by Flaps on Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Flaps wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

They run MEM-OAK and it is only 1 mile difference from PIT-AZA. CVG-LAX is 100 miles longer.


Did I not say that they were kicking around the idea of over nighting and multi day trips?


You said it was currently unlikely because it was too long to out and back for one crew. But they run other flights longer than PIT-AZA so that must not be the case.


They are experimenting in some markets to see how it works out. PIT is not one of them at the moment. Is THAT enough of an explanation for you?

:roll: :white:
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:13 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
The ones I'm noticing off the bat: DL is nailing it on SLC, UA on both SFO and IAD have really matured. AA seems to be sagging comparatively?

I'd really love to know how most of the LAX-bound traffic is flowing, connection wise.


One would hope that DL's success on PIT-SLC would eventually portend an entry into PIT-LAX. Were I having to commute to LA on a frequent basis, PIT-SLC-BUR is the way I would do it (LAX is a mess, and if you don't have the convenience of a nonstop, it isn't worth it).
 
pgh234
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:15 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
The ones I'm noticing off the bat: DL is nailing it on SLC, UA on both SFO and IAD have really matured. AA seems to be sagging comparatively?

I'd really love to know how most of the LAX-bound traffic is flowing, connection wise.


One would hope that DL's success on PIT-SLC would eventually portend an entry into PIT-LAX. Were I having to commute to LA on a frequent basis, PIT-SLC-BUR is the way I would do it (LAX is a mess, and if you don't have the convenience of a nonstop, it isn't worth it).


I had gotten 3 sets of VDBs on 3 different itineraries on SLC-PIT for my family of 3. Netting $7200 total over the past two years. I hope they never upgage equipment. Haha
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:47 pm

More good news for Condor, as the European Commission has officially approved the bridge loan provided by the German government and state of Hessen.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/busine ... 81258.html
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

pgh234 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
The ones I'm noticing off the bat: DL is nailing it on SLC, UA on both SFO and IAD have really matured. AA seems to be sagging comparatively?

I'd really love to know how most of the LAX-bound traffic is flowing, connection wise.


One would hope that DL's success on PIT-SLC would eventually portend an entry into PIT-LAX. Were I having to commute to LA on a frequent basis, PIT-SLC-BUR is the way I would do it (LAX is a mess, and if you don't have the convenience of a nonstop, it isn't worth it).


I had gotten 3 sets of VDBs on 3 different itineraries on SLC-PIT for my family of 3. Netting $7200 total over the past two years. I hope they never upgage equipment. Haha


A bit surprised they have not at least upgauged it to an A320, which wouldn't exactly be going out on a limb with those load factors. Maybe once the new SLC terminal opens we'll even see double daily; something like a 319 and a 220.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:43 pm

Condor also updated their Summer 2020 timetable today (10-14-19); no changes that I see.
https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2020.pdf

One thing I did notice is that PIT is the only major/business market in N. America with only 2x weekly flights. Hopefully that means we are a good candidate for some additional frequencies. Fairbanks, Whitehorse, and Varadero are 1x weekly.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:05 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Condor also updated their Summer 2020 timetable today (10-14-19); no changes that I see.
https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2020.pdf

One thing I did notice is that PIT is the only major/business market in N. America with only 2x weekly flights. Hopefully that means we are a good candidate for some additional frequencies. Fairbanks, Whitehorse, and Varadero are 1x weekly.

The placeholder originally had the flight going into mid-October. Now that has been changed to September 14th. So no extension to the season unlike what Condor hinted at prior.

No J class either as the A332 is still there for S20.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Runway28L wrote:
The placeholder originally had the flight going into mid-October. Now that has been changed to September 14th. So no extension to the season unlike what Condor hinted at prior.

No J class either as the A332 is still there for S20.

I don't think Condor's website ever had PIT scheduled beyond mid Sept. The only reference for it going in to Oct was this link from Routes Online:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285272/condor-s20-pittsburgh-aircraft-changes/

In fact the only change to anything related to PIT in 2020 since the change to an A330 several months ago is the recent change from "Operated by Thomas Cook" to "Operated by Condor Partner Airlines".

I think the S20 schedules are still a work in progress even though the timetable was updated today.
FLYi
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:50 pm

Gsasala wrote:
I am very impressed with the load factors, the fact that SFO was Uniteds number one flight is saying something about Pittsburgh tech sector. AUS was also impressive I hope to see Delta jump onto that route. MIA needs to go to 3 time daily 175s or go mainline.

I too would like to see DL jump on AUS-PIT as well. It would give LAX-bound travelers another connection option depending on frequency and timing. I think at least 2x E75 should be sufficient.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:14 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
The placeholder originally had the flight going into mid-October. Now that has been changed to September 14th. So no extension to the season unlike what Condor hinted at prior.

No J class either as the A332 is still there for S20.

I don't think Condor's website ever had PIT scheduled beyond mid Sept. The only reference for it going in to Oct was this link from Routes Online:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285272/condor-s20-pittsburgh-aircraft-changes/

In fact the only change to anything related to PIT in 2020 since the change to an A330 several months ago is the recent change from "Operated by Thomas Cook" to "Operated by Condor Partner Airlines".

I think the S20 schedules are still a work in progress even though the timetable was updated today.

I swear I remember awhile back seeing the booking engine also showing service through mid-October. Oh well, moot point anyway.

I agree with you on the schedule still being a work in progress. I’m still not 100% certain on that A332 upgrade. I have no clue about what is going on with those aircraft leased from the now bankrupt Thomas Cook. Also, FRA-KUL/MSY are no longer listed, both of which are B763 routes. And AFAIK, FRA-PIT/BWI were supposed to be the only two U.S. A332 routes for next summer. There may be stuff going on behind the scenes. We will have to see.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:41 pm

Allegiant extended their schedule out to 8/31/20 and it looks like PIT-TYS is not returning for next season.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:39 pm

PIT-SAV is also 5x weekly next summer, I believe that is an increase of one.

No surprise that TYS gets cut. A couple thoughts on this:

- Even though G4 gave it the axe, with a 65% LF utilizing an A319 I think it demonstrates there is a market for a Moxy type airline utilizing 100-120 seaters in smaller markets. Not necessarily small markets such as PIT-TYS, but more along the lines of PIT-IND/ORF/BDL/etc.

- Is there one single new route announcement this year that has stuck? PIT-TYS has come and gone, PIT-PBI has swapped carriers more or less so I don't consider that a new route. In the meantime F9 dropped PIT-SAN, Southern ended JHW and is about to end HGR and FKL.
FLYi
 
TYSflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:59 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Allegiant extended their schedule out to 8/31/20 and it looks like PIT-TYS is not returning for next season.

I was definitely bummed about this. Took the flight twice last summer and loved the convenience. The flight apparently originated from the Gatlinburg Visitors Bureau pushing to make the Pigeon Gorge/Gatlinburg/Great Smoky Mountains more of a national destination compared to it being traditionally a regional one. I was hoping that there was a revenue guarantee for it to keep it flying for a few years but that must have not been the case. I guess I’ll go back to driving or making the connection in PHL or CLT.
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:36 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
I was definitely bummed about this. Took the flight twice last summer and loved the convenience. The flight apparently originated from the Gatlinburg Visitors Bureau pushing to make the Pigeon Gorge/Gatlinburg/Great Smoky Mountains more of a national destination compared to it being traditionally a regional one. I was hoping that there was a revenue guarantee for it to keep it flying for a few years but that must have not been the case. I guess I’ll go back to driving or making the connection in PHL or CLT.


I feel like this is a niche route that could grow, but would need more time to mature. Wasn't it announced fairly fairly soon before it began operating in the summer season?
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:03 pm

Just announced... Spirit adding PIT-CUN.

https://blueskypit.com/2019/10/16/spiri ... to-cancun/

3x weekly service begins February 13th.

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