Delta28L wrote:

ConcourseZ wrote:

Never saw this before. FlightAware had Steel 73 on their arrival list with their flight route (local training) but did not show the aircraft on the tracking map.

Where did it originate and what type of plane was it?

From PIT. KC-135.

Runway28L wrote:

That was one of the 171st’s KC-135s. They almost always use the STEEL callsign for local sorties. You can track them on OpenADSB, though sometimes they may not show up.

FWIW the 911th uses PITT as their callsign.

Never knew about openADSB. Interesting site plus global ads-B exchange. Need one of the other tracking sites for flight numbers?

May passengers are up 4.1%
https://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattach ... lang=en-US

That’s a bit better than I expected. Cargo also up a good 10%

flyPIT wrote:

May passengers are up 4.1%
https://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattach ... lang=en-US

That’s a bit better than I expected. Cargo also up a good 10%

Thank you BA for boosting cargo

flyPIT wrote:

May passengers are up 4.1%
https://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattach ... lang=en-US

That’s a bit better than I expected. Cargo also up a good 10%

International traffic better than I expected.

ConcourseZ wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

May passengers are up 4.1%
https://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattach ... lang=en-US

That’s a bit better than I expected. Cargo also up a good 10%

International traffic better than I expected.

Thank you BA for boosting International. Just wait till the June figures come out.

ConcourseZ wrote:

Interesting how BA schedules the 788 for the PIT-LHR route. Here's the history for today's BA 171, tail G-ZBJC.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-zbjc

It's interesting how this flight offers limited connections to India. Yet, the plane used on PIT-LHR-PIT actually continues to India. That said, how many people are traveling between PIT and Chennai (southeast coast) as opposed to Delhi/New Delhi or Mumbai...?

Chautauqua County legislature passed a measure to aid EAS service from JHW. Proposed flights would be JHW-PIT/BWI with Boutique Air.
https://www.post-journal.com/news/page-one/2019/06/county-legislature-supports-subsidy/

Delta28L wrote:

Thank you BA for boosting cargo

We don't know if that's the case. When DE launched PIT they didn't carry any cargo. Same when DL first upgauged CDG to a B763.

UPS operated a second SDF rotation for a week or two and a Vodka Burner brought in a huge crane. That's probably where the 10% increase is coming from.

ConcourseZ wrote:

International traffic better than I expected.

Better than I thought too but it will drop off significantly with June numbers.

As it stands right now, looks like PIT will see the return of scheduled A330 service!

Condor loaded their 2020 PIT schedules. Still 2x weekly M & F with a slight departure time change on one of the days. But upgauged to a Thomas Cook A330!

Some major pluses and minuses with this:
- The big advantage is the huge increase in capacity which will help the airport's int'l numbers recover. Another is more cargo capacity.

- The big disadvantages are the loss of business class and 3x3x3 seating. The last 6 rows of the A330 does have 2x3x2 seating common to the 767 however.

I can't determine if this will be an A332 or A333?
Condor's fleet website lists "Condor operates the Boeing 767-300ER, Boeing 757-300, Airbus A320-200, Airbus A321-200, Airbus A330-200 and A330-300 aircraft types." However A330 seating charts are not available.

Over on Thomas Cook's website the A332 seating charts are very different from those on Condor's booking engine when making a dummy booking for a PIT-FRA flight. It also states economy seating for the A332s are 273, 265, or 261 depending on specific aircraft, with 49 in premium. However counting the seats from the PIT bookings there are a whopping 323 in economy with only 12 premium economy. The Thomas Cook website does state "*During summer we will be operating an A330-300 which will have 372 economy seats." But that doesn't match either so who knows.
https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/fly-with-us/our-airlines-partners/our-fleet/airbus-a330-200.jsp

But I can't imagine the Pittsburgh business community would be happy about this. I'd much prefer 3x weekly 767 flights.
Here's Thomas Cooks "premium" offering:
https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/fly-with-us/classes-rates/premium-class.jsp



This is of course subject to change. I remember Condor was still tweaking things with their 2019 schedule in the Fall of 2018. Then of course there is the matter of a potential LH takeover of DE.

Interesting. So Condor upgraded BWI to an A332 this year. Now PIT seems to be next up.

I feel like there should be a lot of excitement about this move. However, I'm very mixed about it. I would have rather seen them keep the B763 and up frequency or extend the season. The loss of J class could backfire on them and lose some corporate traffic. Also, I'm sure everyone still remembers very well of what happened to PIT-CDG after it got upgraded to a larger plane...

On the other hand, the A332 can carry more cargo and that should be a benefit. Also, the A330 is one of my personal favorites and seeing that next to another favorite of mine (the 787) would be awesome.

FWIW I did a quick glance... BWI also shows an A332 for next summer. PHX however still shows as a B763 and MSY hasn't been loaded at all yet. Looks like we will have to wait and see.

Runway28L wrote:

Interesting. So Condor upgraded BWI to an A332 this year. Now PIT seems to be next up.

I feel like there should be a lot of excitement about this move. However, I'm very mixed about it. I would have rather seen them keep the B763 and up frequency or extend the season. The loss of J class could backfire on them and lose some corporate traffic. Also, I'm sure everyone still remembers very well of what happened to PIT-CDG after it got upgraded to a larger plane...

On the other hand, the A332 can carry more cargo and that should be a benefit. Also, the A330 is one of my personal favorites and seeing that next to another favorite of mine (the 787) would be awesome.

FWIW I did a quick glance... BWI also shows an A332 for next summer. PHX however still shows as a B763 and MSY hasn't been loaded at all yet. Looks like we will have to wait and see.

+1. Mixed feelings. The loss of J is odd for this route but maybe they think they can fill up an additional 80+ seats in economy with the loss of WW then from a revenue perspective it makes sense. As for cargo it’s really a moot point if the 767 was not at capacity. Maybe it was towards the end of last season?

Or it could be a simple matter of aircraft availability. The way they constantly switch between high J configuration here and other locations tells me they might not care about matching destinations with ideal aircraft as much as they do about just having something available to cover the flights.

PHX started a year after PIT, AUS, and MSY but is 3x weekly this year and next with the 763. No surprise as it’s such a larger market.

This will be great from a spotting perspective tho.

I for one am very happy about this, I know from past experience that the A330 is a much more comfortable plane to fly on over the 767, I'm going to assume that they are going to fly the -200 but I would be very excited to see them fly the -300. One thing I'm wondering is, is how this may affect PIT getting EI in 2020.

Gsasala wrote:

I for one am very happy about this, I know from past experience that the A330 is a much more comfortable plane to fly on over the 767,

This is Thomas Cook, not Etihad. The standard A330 economy config seems to be 8 across, this is showing 9 across from PIT. Even Thomas Cook's website shows their A332 config as 8 across. I don't see how a 9 across A330 is in any way more comfortable than a 7 across configuration.

Gsasala wrote:

One thing I'm wondering is, is how this may affect PIT getting EI in 2020.

I wondered the same. I would have to think it will have an impact somehow. Otoh this is only 2x weekly.

flyPIT wrote:

Gsasala wrote:

I for one am very happy about this, I know from past experience that the A330 is a much more comfortable plane to fly on over the 767,

This is Thomas Cook, not Etihad. The standard A330 economy config seems to be 8 across, this is showing 9 across from PIT. Even Thomas Cook's website shows their A332 config as 8 across. I don't see how a 9 across A330 is in any way more comfortable than a 7 across configuration.

Gsasala wrote:

One thing I'm wondering is, is how this may affect PIT getting EI in 2020.

I wondered the same. I would have to think it will have an impact somehow. Otoh this is only 2x weekly.

For some reason I thought all A330s were 2x4x2. Are we sure the seat map showing 3x3x3 is right? seems like it would really cut down on seat width to go 3x3x3. Do other airlines run that config in a 330?

Jshank83 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Gsasala wrote:

I for one am very happy about this, I know from past experience that the A330 is a much more comfortable plane to fly on over the 767,

This is Thomas Cook, not Etihad. The standard A330 economy config seems to be 8 across, this is showing 9 across from PIT. Even Thomas Cook's website shows their A332 config as 8 across. I don't see how a 9 across A330 is in any way more comfortable than a 7 across configuration.

Gsasala wrote:

One thing I'm wondering is, is how this may affect PIT getting EI in 2020.

I wondered the same. I would have to think it will have an impact somehow. Otoh this is only 2x weekly.

For some reason I thought all A330s were 2x4x2. Are we sure the seat map showing 3x3x3 is right? seems like it would really cut down on seat width to go 3x3x3. Do other airlines run that config in a 330?

So I just looked it up, Thomas Cook's A330s are a 2x4x2 configuration, which is the same for just about all airlines that operate this kind of plane. What I found interesting is that their 767s are also configured in a 2x4x2 which would be extremely tight

Jshank83 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Gsasala wrote:

I for one am very happy about this, I know from past experience that the A330 is a much more comfortable plane to fly on over the 767,

This is Thomas Cook, not Etihad. The standard A330 economy config seems to be 8 across, this is showing 9 across from PIT. Even Thomas Cook's website shows their A332 config as 8 across. I don't see how a 9 across A330 is in any way more comfortable than a 7 across configuration.

Gsasala wrote:

One thing I'm wondering is, is how this may affect PIT getting EI in 2020.

I wondered the same. I would have to think it will have an impact somehow. Otoh this is only 2x weekly.

For some reason I thought all A330s were 2x4x2. Are we sure the seat map showing 3x3x3 is right? seems like it would really cut down on seat width to go 3x3x3. Do other airlines run that config in a 330?

Budget airlines such as D7 and 5J do. 5J has A339s on order with cattle car config of 3x3x3 totaling 460 seats.

Also from the Thomas Cook website:
"**One of our A330 has a slightly narrower seat width of 17.3". Please refer to the seat map sent to you along with your booking confirmation to retrieve accurate information about the aircraft you will be flying on."

I too have mixed feelings about the upgauge to an A330 for reasons already stated. I like that it has cargo capacity and more seating capacity, but I don't like that there's no business class. Maybe the business travelers and ACAA officials will have a stronger voice if they later plead to LH to commence service if they become less than satisfied with the all-economy layout with a few seats as premium economy...

I'm just happy that DE will be coming back next year after flying a season without subsidies.

Picking up on the earlier EI comment. This from godsavethepoints.com:

"By 2023, Aer Lingus will jump from 17 aircraft operating across the atlantic to 30. That may be the most aggressive transatlantic expansion of any major airline. Aer Lingus will acquire 14 Airbus A321LR single aisle aircraft which will be purposed on a variety of routes both across Europe and the USA. Dublin to Montreal is set to launch in August and the route presents unique opportunity for points enthusiasts."

Right now, the only aircraft that makes sense for PIT-DUB is the 757. Those are owned by ASL Airlines of Ireland. They only have 4 and are wet-leased to EI. Just don't know if EI has access to enough of these for mid-market expansions. The A321XLR won't be delivered for a few years. Aircraft availability would seem to be the issue atm.

Lots of changes for PIT in the OAG thread:

- UA drops back down to 2x daily to DEN in August
- NK is adding a second flight to FLL in October that runs on certain days. Edit: Looks like it runs on Mon/Fri only. Morning departure from FLL, early afternoon arrival into PIT on an A319, then immediately turns back to FLL.
- More WN MAX cuts. LAX completely suspended once again. FLL and PHX are being reduced to 5x weekly in September (the FLL cut is probably normal due to the slow season, but the PHX cut certainly isn’t)
- F9 resumes MCO in November (as mentioned prior)
- AA goes back to 2x daily on PHX (as mentioned prior)

Runway28L wrote:

Lots of changes for PIT in the OAG thread:

- UA drops back down to 2x daily to DEN in August
- NK is adding a second flight to FLL in October that runs on certain days. Edit: Looks like it runs on Mon/Fri only. Morning departure from FLL, early afternoon arrival into PIT on an A319, then immediately turns back to FLL.
- More WN MAX cuts. LAX completely suspended once again. FLL and PHX are being reduced to 5x weekly in September (the FLL cut is probably normal due to the slow season, but the PHX cut certainly isn’t)
- F9 resumes MCO in November (as mentioned prior)
- AA goes back to 2x daily on PHX (as mentioned prior)

Might be time for DL to add PIT-LAX as they are adding new destinations to LAX. A220???

If anyone is around, Condor is sending the retro livery from FRA this evening.


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/D-ABUM

Runway28L wrote:

If anyone is around, Condor is sending the retro livery from FRA this evening.

I got to fly on that one in 2017! Like many of you, I'm cautiously excited for the upgrade to the 330, but I would much much prefer 3x weekly. I can't tell you how helpful a Wednesday flight would have been for me this summer. And yes, if the biz connection between Pit and Germany is so high, it would seem questionable to switch to an aircraft that doesn't have it. Maybe a fair amount of the upcoming flights are pretty full so they're willing to take a chance with an upgrade? Or like Delta, maybe it is more about aircraft availability.

Runway28L wrote:

If anyone is around, Condor is sending the retro livery from FRA this evening.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/D-ABUM

I’m done with work at 7 so maybe I can try to swing by and get a pic

The former US Airways global flight ops center by Ewing Road and Hookstown Grade Road has been remodeled and converted into a new emergency operations center for Allegheny County.
https://blueskypit.com/2019/07/01/new-9 ... s-complex/

Here's an update on where DL is putting the A220. The schedule has been accelerated a bit.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... gust-2019/

A few pics I got of D-ABUM yesterday:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... datetaken/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... datetaken/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/154462236 ... datetaken/

Finance Buzz completed a study of 30 major airports in the U.S. for average domestic fare. Despite the introduction and growth of ULCCs over the past four years, PIT still ranks near the bottom of this list:

6. MSY - $301.66
...
11. BWI - $318.44
...
13. CLE - $319.80
...
23. AUS - $341.51
24. RDU - $344.17
25. IND - #346.15
26. MCI - $348.82
27. PIT - $349.92
28. BNA - $350.04
29. LAX - $352.79
30. DCA - $357.42
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ ... l?ana=wpxi

IMO the rankings are pretty self-explanatory, especially with where PIT stands. For ULCCs, Florida and other beach/tourist markets have largely been a hit. Once you get beyond that however, success elsewhere has been fairly spotty at best. The impression I get is that the legacies and WN seem to have more leverage most of the time, especially on popular business routes. Look at how quick F9 dropped PIT-ORD/ATL and NK on PIT-IAH/DFW (and now F9 dropping DEN) for example. On the other hand, CLE and MSY have been the complete opposite, though I think it comes down to both markets being different versus PIT than some would like to believe. An interesting dynamic nonetheless.

Looking at what F9 is doing in CLE with an impressive network of approximately 20 cities including up to double daily in markets such as MCO, TPA, RSW as well as 10x weekly to LAS I think their strategy in PIT is to have people drive to CLE. People are driving up there for F9 and it's the only reason I can think of as to why they would drop a route with 94% LF (PIT-PBI)

flyPIT wrote:

Looking at what F9 is doing in CLE with an impressive network of approximately 20 cities including up to double daily in markets such as MCO, TPA, RSW as well as 10x weekly to LAS I think their strategy in PIT is to have people drive to CLE. People are driving up there for F9 and it's the only reason I can think of as to why they would drop a route with 94% LF (PIT-PBI)

CLE is close to three hours away from the SE suburbs of Pittsburgh on a good day. I don’t want to drive three hours then wait two hours for a flight. I would rather pay the extra money for reliable service on a legacy carrier or use spirit that serves the two main airports if the Pittsburgh region for a flight.

Flypit— I’m with you on F9 100%. By the way CLE is getting closer to all 240 seat A321s. Such a contrast to PIT. Delta28L you be you but plenty can and do drive. Make it a family of four or five and F9 can save serious money.

So the question is, why did F9 choose to build up CLE instead of PIT?

flyPIT wrote:

Looking at what F9 is doing in CLE with an impressive network of approximately 20 cities including up to double daily in markets such as MCO, TPA, RSW as well as 10x weekly to LAS I think their strategy in PIT is to have people drive to CLE. People are driving up there for F9 and it's the only reason I can think of as to why they would drop a route with 94% LF (PIT-PBI)

Yeah, been there done that. Family of 5 from MSP. Not only cheap fares but they had a promo where the kids flew free.

Especially true for MSP - PIT where the only other even remotely comparable (price wise) is SWA with a stop in MDW if you are lucky. Otherwise you can do Delta direct but you have to pay in gold bars.

The drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh is not bad at all. You can get from Cleveland to Beaver in almost the same amount of time it takes to get from Beaver to downtown.

ConcourseZ wrote:

So the question is, why did F9 choose to build up CLE instead of PIT?

And is this a conscious decision to build up one over the other? Or did CLE just vastly outperform PIT on F9 flights? Maybe F9 should add PIT-CLE then?

This is my take. What worked in CLEs favor on F9 is the timing of the UA hub closure— just as F9 new business model was emerging. With the closure, CLE was left with a vacuum especially to Florida and F9 swooped right in very aggressively to fill it in— it felt like within minutes. F9 I’m sure took a lot of business from CAK too. In contrast, PIT had good service to FL when F9 was retrenching. Now F9 has decent critical mass in Cleveland, that helps with brand awareness. WN has a pretty small station in CLE— no daily service anywhere in FL, HOU, DAL, or LAS.

I’d love to know how much pax swapping there is between the two airports. I’m sure the airlines know this. I’ve driven from CLE to PIT many times it seems like international has been cheaper in PIT for whatever reason, at least several years ago.

ConcourseZ wrote:

So the question is, why did F9 choose to build up CLE instead of PIT?

The first of the ULCCs in CLE, F9 has historically outperformed NK in the market; G4 and B6 have never attempted to match their presence. I think F9's advantage derived from being the first airline to move in after UA announced the hub closure. They got a lot of attention by announcing a number of popular routes at breathtakingly low fares less than a month after UA pulled the plug and as a result developed a LOT of goodwill in the market. The CLE market has rewarded them accordingly.

And by the way I see little to no advertising for F9 in cleveland. Media I would notice includes newspapers, some local TV news, newspaper websites, NPR, sports TV and radio, stadium advertising, and obviously billboards.

Man that Condor retro livery looks sharp! One of the best I've seen, I think.

Luckyleaf6 wrote:

The drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh is not bad at all. You can get from Cleveland to Beaver in almost the same amount of time it takes to get from Beaver to downtown.

Really? Even from northern Beaver County, it's probably twice as long to get to CLE is it is to get to Downtown Pittsburgh. You're looking at roughly 30-40 minutes at a minimum longer travel time to CLE compared to PIT from New Castle, let alone northern Beaver County.

ctrabs0114 wrote:

Luckyleaf6 wrote:

The drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh is not bad at all. You can get from Cleveland to Beaver in almost the same amount of time it takes to get from Beaver to downtown.

Really? Even from northern Beaver County, it's probably twice as long to get to CLE is it is to get to Downtown Pittsburgh. You're looking at roughly 30-40 minutes at a minimum longer travel time to CLE compared to PIT from New Castle, let alone northern Beaver County.

As someone who spent 20 years in BeavCo before moving to DFW I can absolutely confirm that. CLE is always my backup if I can't get into PIT but it's at minimum a 1 ½ hour drive to CLE from my parents house that's 5 min away from the Ohio border

btw, 2019 Q1 results are out, here is numbers for BOS-PIT
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield
BOSPIT 496 B6 61977 130.15 130.15 000.00 100.00% 100.4 69.74% 90.77
BOSPIT 496 DL 24848 117.80 113.99 156.01 90.93% 74.5 60.63% 69.11
keep in mind, DL runs a mix of regional here, that's why seat per flight is 74.5 rather than 70 or 76. B6 runs E90, so that's where 100 seat per flight comes from.

tphuang wrote:

btw, 2019 Q1 results are out, here is numbers for BOS-PIT
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield
BOSPIT 496 B6 61977 130.15 130.15 000.00 100.00% 100.4 69.74% 90.77
BOSPIT 496 DL 24848 117.80 113.99 156.01 90.93% 74.5 60.63% 69.11
keep in mind, DL runs a mix of regional here, that's why seat per flight is 74.5 rather than 70 or 76. B6 runs E90, so that's where 100 seat per flight comes from.

Not a good sign for DL...

AA1716, B738 arrived at PIT in TWA livery. N915NN

ctrabs0114 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

btw, 2019 Q1 results are out, here is numbers for BOS-PIT
CityPair Dist CarrierBoard AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS SeatPerFlight LF Yield
BOSPIT 496 B6 61977 130.15 130.15 000.00 100.00% 100.4 69.74% 90.77
BOSPIT 496 DL 24848 117.80 113.99 156.01 90.93% 74.5 60.63% 69.11
keep in mind, DL runs a mix of regional here, that's why seat per flight is 74.5 rather than 70 or 76. B6 runs E90, so that's where 100 seat per flight comes from.

Not a good sign for DL...

They'll either view the route as being too important not to serve and gut out losing money hand over fist, or losses will be so intolerable that they will have to scale back or drop out. But since DL dropped PIT-CDG entirely and slashed their season in-half on PIT-CUN, both due to overcapacity and poor yields, it makes me wonder what will happen with them on PIT-BOS. At some point, something's gotta give...

"DSV Air & Sea continues global expansion with Pittsburgh location"
https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/dsv-air-sea-continues-global-expansion-with-pittsburgh-location/

With 35 other sites in the US this in no way means PIT will become some sort of gateway for them. However I've said for a long time now that if PIT wants to develop an air cargo industry then they need to get forwarders (and a lot of them) to set up shop here. Its good to see them start to do exactly that with this latest addition.

DSV acquired Swiss based global forwarder Panalpina a few months ago.

flyPIT wrote:

"DSV Air & Sea continues global expansion with Pittsburgh location"
https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/dsv-air-sea-continues-global-expansion-with-pittsburgh-location/

With 35 other sites in the US this in no way means PIT will become some sort of gateway for them. However I've said for a long time now that if PIT wants to develop an air cargo industry then they need to get forwarders (and a lot of them) to set up shop here. Its good to see them start to do exactly that with this latest addition.

DSV acquired Swiss based global forwarder Panalpina a few months ago.

Great news!

Speaking of cargo, the second daily SDF flight on UPS made two more appearances this week.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS1422

BA has updated their PIT schedule. Outbound departs 21:10, one hour earlier, starting 03 Nov, which goes into at least February of 2020.

JetBlue brought in a A321 in this afternoon as a diversion. It was flying from SFO to BOS as B616

ConcourseZ wrote:

BA has updated their PIT schedule. Outbound departs 21:10, one hour earlier, starting 03 Nov, which goes into at least February of 2020.

Northern Hemisphere Winter travel season adjustment