steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:22 pm

My understanding of the whole PIT-LAX debacle was that the flights on AA and UA weren't timed very well due to available slots at LAX. It's pretty unfortunate for PIT. There is high enough O&D on PIT-LAX that this route should work, but if the flights aren't timed well then not to many passengers will fly. I can see why some folks suggested that DL upgauge PIT-SLC. I think that is the best bet.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITflier
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:33 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Hard to believe Pittsburgh will have almost as many weekly seats to London as all of Southern California.

Delta, you're up next.


Once Delta gets more A220s I think they'll take a stab at PIT-LAX.
 
PITflier
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:35 pm

steeler83 wrote:
My understanding of the whole PIT-LAX debacle was that the flights on AA and UA weren't timed very well due to available slots at LAX. It's pretty unfortunate for PIT. There is high enough O&D on PIT-LAX that this route should work, but if the flights aren't timed well then not to many passengers will fly. I can see why some folks suggested that DL upgauge PIT-SLC. I think that is the best bet.


I loved the timing of the SW flight last year. Got off my flight from HND, went through customs, had a 1 hr wait, got on my flight to PIT.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:24 pm

steeler83 wrote:
My understanding of the whole PIT-LAX debacle was that the flights on AA and UA weren't timed very well due to available slots at LAX. It's pretty unfortunate for PIT. There is high enough O&D on PIT-LAX that this route should work, but if the flights aren't timed well then not to many passengers will fly. I can see why some folks suggested that DL upgauge PIT-SLC. I think that is the best bet.


IIIRC when AA started the route UA was still operating it and they both left PIT at nearly the same time in the early evening. AA subsequently moved their departure to the early AM.

Regardless, when only one daily flight is offered on such a flight there is no such thing as good timing. What is required is 2x daily by a legacy. AA seems to make it work this way from CMH and IND.
FLYi
 
Aceskywalker
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:48 am

Is LAX-PIT enough to support a non-stop route for 2 airlines? Cause I remember the opinion was that WN dropped frequencies as a result of NK coming in. Now NK has a monopoly on LAX-PIT.

I don't think DL would try even with A220-100. It would be a waste of a valuable LAX slot.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:50 pm

Atlas Air B763 scheduled from BOI later today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5Y8988
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Is LAX-PIT enough to support a non-stop route for 2 airlines? Cause I remember the opinion was that WN dropped frequencies as a result of NK coming in. Now NK has a monopoly on LAX-PIT.

I don't think DL would try even with A220-100. It would be a waste of a valuable LAX slot.


IIRC, LAX isn't slotted. However, DL/UA/AA are all gate constrained to various degrees (DL and AA moreso than UA).
 
Gsasala
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:21 am

So there were two military charter planes today, Atlas which was cargo, and a B737-500 which were carrying military trainees from Boise
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Per the PDF shared in the WN fleet/network thread, WN is permanently discontinuing PIT-LAX effective 1/6/2020.


The lack of PIT-LAX on a non-ULCC is a huge hole, especially with WN permanently discontinuing PIT-LAX nonstop service. PIT-LAX could be added by AA or DL with WN dropping PIT-LAX nonstop service.

Who is more likely to add PIT-LAX nonstop service, AA or DL?


I'll take a guess at the legacy possibilities (in some order):

1) Delta: I think the PIT-SLC add was a nod towards the need for LAX and better West Coast service and a step to build the marketshare to sustain it. They aren't MAX constrained and are more just short of gate space. The other interesting development is that Delta is going to start some limited A220 transcon flying (ex: SEA-ATL). A schedule that was something like 1x 319/738 and 1x A220 (as redeye utilization to get the aircraft back east to rotate through LGA as a 600a flight) could make a lot of sense.

2) American: I'm convinced that when they flew it, it was profitable and they dropped it so that they could play marketshare games elsewhere (like RDU, IND, and CMH) while holding onto the traffic flows via DFW and ORD instead. I could see them restarting it if some other route underperforms like SDF or BDL.

3) Alaska: It could be attractive as a low competition route where they don't have to fight AA/UA/DL tooth and nail for fares or marketshare. The downside is that they'd have to get outsized support from LAX O&D traffic as they probably have a very, very low FF base in Pittsburgh. Before the AA/AS partnership got whacked at the knees, this would have been a lot more attractive. Also, short term MAX issues.

4.) United: It may sound strange, but they just finished getting their LAX facilities done, which had limited gates so they have some capacity to go around. At some point they are a) going to max out what they can cram into San Francisco and b) need to stay relevant in the Los Angeles market. The upcoming T9 project will make flowing interline transpac connections over LAX much more attractive than is the case now. PIT might be an easy place for them to start a rebuild at LAX.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:24 am

GSP psgr wrote:
I'll take a guess at the legacy possibilities (in some order):

1) Delta: I think the PIT-SLC add was a nod towards the need for LAX and better West Coast service and a step to build the marketshare to sustain it. They aren't MAX constrained and are more just short of gate space. The other interesting development is that Delta is going to start some limited A220 transcon flying (ex: SEA-ATL). A schedule that was something like 1x 319/738 and 1x A220 (as redeye utilization to get the aircraft back east to rotate through LGA as a 600a flight) could make a lot of sense.

2) American: I'm convinced that when they flew it, it was profitable and they dropped it so that they could play marketshare games elsewhere (like RDU, IND, and CMH) while holding onto the traffic flows via DFW and ORD instead. I could see them restarting it if some other route underperforms like SDF or BDL.

3) Alaska: It could be attractive as a low competition route where they don't have to fight AA/UA/DL tooth and nail for fares or marketshare. The downside is that they'd have to get outsized support from LAX O&D traffic as they probably have a very, very low FF base in Pittsburgh. Before the AA/AS partnership got whacked at the knees, this would have been a lot more attractive. Also, short term MAX issues.

4.) United: It may sound strange, but they just finished getting their LAX facilities done, which had limited gates so they have some capacity to go around. At some point they are a) going to max out what they can cram into San Francisco and b) need to stay relevant in the Los Angeles market. The upcoming T9 project will make flowing interline transpac connections over LAX much more attractive than is the case now. PIT might be an easy place for them to start a rebuild at LAX.


I think that sums it up rather well, especially the bit about AA's previous attempt. I don't think UA giving it another go would be all that unusual. I do think that if a legacy re-enters with 1x daily then a second will follow... and the cycle repeats. Therefore like I said a few days ago the best bet would be for someone to properly serve the route 2x daily and DL is in the best position to do that considering aircraft availability and type.

Here's a nice little PR piece from the ACAA to minimize this setback:
"Southwest Adds More Flights to 7 Cities from PIT, Drops LAX"
https://blueskypit.com/2019/08/19/southwest-adds-more-flights-to-7-cities-from-pit-drops-lax/

So while the headline might be factually correct for January, these additions appear to be a simple matter of WN moving up the usual seasonal increases. For example, serving DEN 2x, ATL 3x, and MDW 5x is nothing new. But good increases for January anyway so it should be a good month for a yoy increase.

In the meantime, NK already significantly jacked up their fares to LAX starting in March.
FLYi
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:06 am

UPS ferrying in a B763 from MIA for the second week in a row:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS9741/history/20190819/2133Z/KMIA/KPIT
FLYi
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:02 am

flyPIT wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
I'll take a guess at the legacy possibilities (in some order):

1) Delta: I think the PIT-SLC add was a nod towards the need for LAX and better West Coast service and a step to build the marketshare to sustain it. They aren't MAX constrained and are more just short of gate space. The other interesting development is that Delta is going to start some limited A220 transcon flying (ex: SEA-ATL). A schedule that was something like 1x 319/738 and 1x A220 (as redeye utilization to get the aircraft back east to rotate through LGA as a 600a flight) could make a lot of sense.

2) American: I'm convinced that when they flew it, it was profitable and they dropped it so that they could play marketshare games elsewhere (like RDU, IND, and CMH) while holding onto the traffic flows via DFW and ORD instead. I could see them restarting it if some other route underperforms like SDF or BDL.

3) Alaska: It could be attractive as a low competition route where they don't have to fight AA/UA/DL tooth and nail for fares or marketshare. The downside is that they'd have to get outsized support from LAX O&D traffic as they probably have a very, very low FF base in Pittsburgh. Before the AA/AS partnership got whacked at the knees, this would have been a lot more attractive. Also, short term MAX issues.

4.) United: It may sound strange, but they just finished getting their LAX facilities done, which had limited gates so they have some capacity to go around. At some point they are a) going to max out what they can cram into San Francisco and b) need to stay relevant in the Los Angeles market. The upcoming T9 project will make flowing interline transpac connections over LAX much more attractive than is the case now. PIT might be an easy place for them to start a rebuild at LAX.


I think that sums it up rather well, especially the bit about AA's previous attempt. I don't think UA giving it another go would be all that unusual. I do think that if a legacy re-enters with 1x daily then a second will follow... and the cycle repeats. Therefore like I said a few days ago the best bet would be for someone to properly serve the route 2x daily and DL is in the best position to do that considering aircraft availability and type.

Here's a nice little PR piece from the ACAA to minimize this setback:
"Southwest Adds More Flights to 7 Cities from PIT, Drops LAX"
https://blueskypit.com/2019/08/19/southwest-adds-more-flights-to-7-cities-from-pit-drops-lax/

So while the headline might be factually correct for January, these additions appear to be a simple matter of WN moving up the usual seasonal increases. For example, serving DEN 2x, ATL 3x, and MDW 5x is nothing new. But good increases for January anyway so it should be a good month for a yoy increase.

In the meantime, NK already significantly jacked up their fares to LAX starting in March.


I'll add one more thing (and my memory may be off), but AA seemed to drop PIT-LAX and then suddenly start making a big push on PIT-ORD, suddenly hitting it with multiple daily 738s, as if though they were also more interested in playing marketshare wars in the PIT-CHI market.

As for WN, I've convinced myself that as regards PIT, they're always going to be a tease and the permanent drop of PIT-LAX proves it. They're obviously far more interested in growing BNA, STL, DEN, and dumping even more capacity into intra-California flying. Problem is that there's nobody else even remotely interested in growing point to point flying in the former Industrial Midwest/Great Lakes/Rust Belt for the time being.
 
PITflier
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:35 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Problem is that there's nobody else even remotely interested in growing point to point flying in the former Industrial Midwest/Great Lakes/Rust Belt for the time being.


Moxy will probably target this area once they get off the ground next year. They're not using main airports like LAX/MCO/PHX, so we'd probably get SNA/BUR if they took a chance on it.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Post-Gazette article on WN dropping LAX. You can clearly tell they took info out of both Blue Sky and this thread.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1908190099
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:48 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
As for WN, I've convinced myself that as regards PIT, they're always going to be a tease and the permanent drop of PIT-LAX proves it. They're obviously far more interested in growing BNA, STL, DEN, and dumping even more capacity into intra-California flying.

They're also more interested in flying Kahului - Kona as well as Hono - Hilo 4x a day for $30 instead of PIT-PHL for $300.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:29 pm

National Airlines 757-200 scheduled to arrive from MCO later today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/N8920
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:53 pm

Article in USAToday on WN dropping 20 non-stop destinations in January.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 049341001/
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:43 pm

Dual AS B738s diverted to PIT this afternoon.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS8
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS786

Quite possibly the last visit ever by an AA MD-80 to PIT.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA2480
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:21 pm

Curious if anyone knows.....have summer diversions into PIT been increasing over the years?
 
Gsasala
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:55 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
Curious if anyone knows.....have summer diversions into PIT been increasing over the years?

Unusually bad weather in New York has been the cause of the diversions
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:49 am

As of last week, tail 00-0180 is the fifth C-17 to be based at the 911th Airlift Wing flight line.

The latest rumor is a special ceremony will be held in October for the grand opening of the new hangar. The remaining ships will be on property by that time.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:46 am

FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Condor is reportedly in talks with Lufthansa for a codeshare agreement. A deal could be struck by the end of the year.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-luft ... SKCN1VC201
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:41 pm

flyPIT wrote:


As suspected, Uber is behind this. But this caught my attention:

"Being that the site is a former airport, its possible that Uber might use the facility to test vertical takeoff and landing aircraft (VTOL) for its planned Uber Elevate service which will offer aerial ridesharing."
https://www.futurecar.com/3431/Uber-is-Eyeing-a-Dormant-Pittsburgh-Area-Airport-to-Build-Autonomous-Vehicle-Test-Site

It would be great for the region to get this aspect of Uber's growing business.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:58 am

Per Seth Miller on Twitter, Franklin/Oil City and Hagerstown are being dropped from the EAS program effective October 18th.
https://twitter.com/wandrme/status/1166 ... 10179?s=21

Southern currently serves both towns from PIT, as well as HGR-BWI.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:39 pm

 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:00 pm

Boyd Group International Aviation Forecast Summit is going on in Las Vegas. You can follow it here live:
https://airwaysmag.com/industry/boyd-gr ... st-summit/
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:01 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:

Already discussed:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429859


ConcourseZ wrote:
Boyd Group International Aviation Forecast Summit is going on in Las Vegas. You can follow it here live:
https://airwaysmag.com/industry/boyd-gr ... st-summit/

Relevance to PIT is....?
FLYi
 
JamesRenard
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:54 am

Runway28L wrote:
Per Seth Miller on Twitter, Franklin/Oil City and Hagerstown are being dropped from the EAS program effective October 18th.
https://twitter.com/wandrme/status/1166 ... 10179?s=21

Southern currently serves both towns from PIT, as well as HGR-BWI.

Confirmed here: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -2523-0258

It's not looking great for 9X out of PIT. They've lost service to JHW, MDT, JST and AVP, and now they're losing FKL and HGR.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:49 pm

July data for BA:

214 seats per flight > 18 flights each way > 3,852 monthly seats one way > 7,704 total monthly seats
PITTSBURGH 6,642 total 6,642 scheduled

86.2% LF. Nearly identical to June's data.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:01 pm

Runway28L wrote:
July data for BA:

214 seats per flight > 18 flights each way > 3,852 monthly seats one way > 7,704 total monthly seats
PITTSBURGH 6,642 total 6,642 scheduled

86.2% LF. Nearly identical to June's data.


Getting 87% load factors in July is good, but not overly difficult. The acid test will be how well this does in the dead middle of February, when even Pittsburghers are thinking twice about their life choices.

Also hoping to see the new Midwest Express do well. Maybe we'll see MKE-PIT if/when they do another round of expansion.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:08 pm

Maybe not really news worthy, but PIT apparently is receiving another state grant of $2M to prep the innovation campus site for development:

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1908290076

I guess the only thing to point out is they really are looking to advance this proposal along. I'm probably making a silly comment with this but I wonder if they have any possible tenants lined up.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:33 pm

steeler83 wrote:
Maybe not really news worthy, but PIT apparently is receiving another state grant of $2M to prep the innovation campus site for development:

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1908290076

I guess the only thing to point out is they really are looking to advance this proposal along. I'm probably making a silly comment with this but I wonder if they have any possible tenants lined up.

It's possible. I'd really like to see some money spent on new cargo facilities, given the recent developments.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7628
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:05 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
Maybe not really news worthy, but PIT apparently is receiving another state grant of $2M to prep the innovation campus site for development:

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1908290076

I guess the only thing to point out is they really are looking to advance this proposal along. I'm probably making a silly comment with this but I wonder if they have any possible tenants lined up.

It's possible. I'd really like to see some money spent on new cargo facilities, given the recent developments.

Ah yes, that should have crossed my mind but didn't. I know we've discussed that ad nauseum alread, but I'll reiterate that they should do something immediately.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:26 am

In the STL thread it is mentioned Amazon will be starting 2x daily flights from there. STL isn't too much further from the CVG mothership than PIT so maybe PIT can get something going as well.



"Latrobe, Pennsylvania-based L.J. Aviation aircraft management and business jet charter company has opened a new base at Pittsburgh International Airport (PIT), it announced on Thursday. Its new facility includes a reception area, private offices, lounge, and meeting rooms. It also has 36,000 sq ft of hangar area, complete with shop space, with 42-foot doors, and can accommodate business aircraft up to a BBJ or ACJ."
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-08-29/lj-aviation-opens-new-base-pittsburgh-intl-airport

Does anyone know which hangar this will be? I assume the former Kraft-Heinz hangar?



GSP psgr wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
July data for BA:

214 seats per flight > 18 flights each way > 3,852 monthly seats one way > 7,704 total monthly seats
PITTSBURGH 6,642 total 6,642 scheduled

86.2% LF. Nearly identical to June's data.

Getting 87% load factors in July is good, but not overly difficult. The acid test will be how well this does in the dead middle of February, when even Pittsburghers are thinking twice about their life choices.

Also hoping to see the new Midwest Express do well. Maybe we'll see MKE-PIT if/when they do another round of expansion.


This compares to an average 74.5% LF that DL had to and from CDG in July last year, with traffic being highly one directional (57% eastbound and 92% westbound). I think this illustrates how London is a much larger O&D destination than Paris and as a result point of sales are much more evenly distributed between Pgh and London compared to Pgh and Paris. Which is a good thing.

As for Midwest Express I'm surprised PIT was not one of their initial destinations.
FLYi
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:51 am

Wasn’t CDG daily? More seats to fill so there’s a bit more math to do on your assertion.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:03 am

With BA being 4x weekly how many people are going to delay their travel 1-2 days to take a nonstop instead of going the day they want and make a connection? In other words, if the flight had higher frequency then the total amount of passengers on the route would be higher. So how does one quantify that? Regardless, the “assertion” that the two way traffic between PIT and LHR is much more balanced is pretty solid IMHO.
FLYi
 
PghMath
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:38 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:58 am

Hi guys - long time lurker, first time poster. I don't really have a lot to add to the conversation here on a daily basis but I always enjoy reading all of your thoughts and updates. I'm just a general aviation geek who happens to be a math teacher in a suburban Pittsburgh district as well.

These two posts from today really inspired me to ask a question of you though. I teach several math courses like Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Statistics, and would love to bring up the two most recent posts to my Statistics students. With no offense to ncflyer, from a statistical standpoint the logic of a daily flight creating lower load factors is very flawed for a lot of reasons, but a common one that many of my students would definitely agree with at first. It would be to BA's advantage to capture as much of the market to LHR and beyond via connections that they can, and increasing frequency could only help that if there is a healthy demand, which there seems to be. My question is does anybody know whether there is a website anyone knows of where you can see data such as the average amount of passengers who travel certain routes, like PIT-LHR in general? So we would be able to determine the proportion of travelers that BA is currently catching, for example, and perhaps extrapolate to determine the effects of additional frequencies? It would make a great project and learning experience for my students. Thanks so much if anyone knows.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:12 am

PghMath wrote:
Hi guys - long time lurker, first time poster. I don't really have a lot to add to the conversation here on a daily basis but I always enjoy reading all of your thoughts and updates. I'm just a general aviation geek who happens to be a math teacher in a suburban Pittsburgh district as well.

These two posts from today really inspired me to ask a question of you though. I teach several math courses like Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Statistics, and would love to bring up the two most recent posts to my Statistics students. With no offense to ncflyer, from a statistical standpoint the logic of a daily flight creating lower load factors is very flawed for a lot of reasons, but a common one that many of my students would definitely agree with at first. It would be to BA's advantage to capture as much of the market to LHR and beyond via connections that they can, and increasing frequency could only help that if there is a healthy demand, which there seems to be. My question is does anybody know whether there is a website anyone knows of where you can see data such as the average amount of passengers who travel certain routes, like PIT-LHR in general? So we would be able to determine the proportion of travelers that BA is currently catching, for example, and perhaps extrapolate to determine the effects of additional frequencies? It would make a great project and learning experience for my students. Thanks so much if anyone knows.


This is the best possible website for relevant data:
https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/global-gateways-international-aviation-in-metropolitan-america/

Some will say the 2011 data is outdated, which it is. But what I like about it beyond the very detailed top 200 city pairs is the 2003 vs 2011 comparison. For example CLE was down 11% during that period while MSY was down 16%. Outdated as they may be, those trends did not reverse overnight.
FLYi
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:15 am

my logic and math is the whole basis of F9s business model. They’ve been unkind to PIT but they’ve proven the flying public will pack em in only on the days they fly, as would I adjust my schedule and business meetings for one of BAs PIT days. Obviously not everyone would but pleeeeeenty do. Your project will be interesting.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:11 am

ncflyer wrote:
my logic and math is the whole basis of F9s business model. They’ve been unkind to PIT but they’ve proven the flying public will pack em in only on the days they fly, as would I adjust my schedule and business meetings for one of BAs PIT days. Obviously not everyone would but pleeeeeenty do. Your project will be interesting.


F9 lures a completely different customer than BA, with different booking behaviors.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4066
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:18 am

PghMath wrote:
Hi guys - long time lurker, first time poster. I don't really have a lot to add to the conversation here on a daily basis but I always enjoy reading all of your thoughts and updates. I'm just a general aviation geek who happens to be a math teacher in a suburban Pittsburgh district as well.

These two posts from today really inspired me to ask a question of you though. I teach several math courses like Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Statistics, and would love to bring up the two most recent posts to my Statistics students. With no offense to ncflyer, from a statistical standpoint the logic of a daily flight creating lower load factors is very flawed for a lot of reasons, but a common one that many of my students would definitely agree with at first. It would be to BA's advantage to capture as much of the market to LHR and beyond via connections that they can, and increasing frequency could only help that if there is a healthy demand, which there seems to be. My question is does anybody know whether there is a website anyone knows of where you can see data such as the average amount of passengers who travel certain routes, like PIT-LHR in general? So we would be able to determine the proportion of travelers that BA is currently catching, for example, and perhaps extrapolate to determine the effects of additional frequencies? It would make a great project and learning experience for my students. Thanks so much if anyone knows.


Welcome to a.net!

With regards to your post, you are missing a portion of the equation. The goal of airline route decisions is to maximize revenue(yield), not to maximize passengers per flight. At the right price airlines could fill all of their planes up to 100%(or close to it) every day, but they much rather prefer higher revenues.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:27 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
my logic and math is the whole basis of F9s business model. They’ve been unkind to PIT but they’ve proven the flying public will pack em in only on the days they fly, as would I adjust my schedule and business meetings for one of BAs PIT days. Obviously not everyone would but pleeeeeenty do. Your project will be interesting.


F9 lures a completely different customer than BA, with different booking behaviors.


Um yeah that’s a little bit obvious but I think many people regardless of their travel behavior and wealth would be willing to change business meetings or vacation plans to take advantage of a nice convenient BA nonstop. Wouldn’t you?
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:42 pm

Another point. It’s generally accepted that nonstop fights stimulate new demand. Makes a lot of sense. That demand will find its way to the new route whether it’s 7 day or 4 days a week. Has to help BAs loads relative to DL to CDG (point very well taken on the importance of yields too of course).
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:45 pm

As I expected, AA has chopped JFK-PIT back down to 1x daily in November. However, it will still run 2x daily during Thanksgiving.

PHX-PIT will now run 2x daily on Mon-Thur and 1x daily Fri-Sun in November.

DCA loses mainline in December but LGA retains the 1x daily E190.
 
AKflyguy
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:58 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:38 am

Hello everyone longtime lurker here. I've been trying (and having little luck) to find info on how much the current airside terminal will be updated/renovated alongside the new landside terminal. Has there been any specific quotes or anything written up regarding this part of the terminal modernization? Forgive me if this has already been discussed ad nauseum...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:52 pm

AKflyguy wrote:
Hello everyone longtime lurker here. I've been trying (and having little luck) to find info on how much the current airside terminal will be updated/renovated alongside the new landside terminal. Has there been any specific quotes or anything written up regarding this part of the terminal modernization? Forgive me if this has already been discussed ad nauseum...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

This is the official modernization site:
https://pittransformed.com
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:46 pm

The Jonas Brothers came in on a rare 727-21 early this morning. Aircraft is currently parked over by Atlantic. Registration is N30MP.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1617
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:55 am

July numbers are out and down 0.3%, breaking a 3 year streak of gains:
https://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachment/Newsroom/Airport-Statistics/July-2019-Short-E-Mail-Report.pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

Domestic growth slowed but still up 1.5% no doubt due to WN's MAX cutbacks. This growth was not enough to offset the 30.7% reduction in int'l due to the loss of CDG and KEF.

On the bright side cargo is up 14%, contributed by the addition of EFL utilizing PIT as a gateway via the QR Cargo service.



AKflyguy wrote:
Hello everyone longtime lurker here. I've been trying (and having little luck) to find info on how much the current airside terminal will be updated/renovated alongside the new landside terminal. Has there been any specific quotes or anything written up regarding this part of the terminal modernization?

Nothing at all specific other than demoing the ends of the A and B concourses and vague terms such as "sprucing up" the airside concourses. There was an earlier rendering that showed glass jetways but later renderings had those removed.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1789
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:33 pm

Excellent article by our airpot's news site on the AA MD-80 retirement
https://blueskypit.com/2019/08/30/final ... of-an-era/

Still remember the silver Mad Dogs being a fixture at the end of Concourse D (and later Concourse B) for years.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos