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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:57 am
by AaronPGH
Wow, kudos to PIT team for grabbing so many great shots of the new livery! Not drastic, but a great evolution.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:00 am
by AaronPGH

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:05 am
by AaronPGH
whoops, major fail on thread posting...lol. was meant for the UA livery thread.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:04 pm
by ConcourseZ
The new UA livery appears to have the underbelly painted in gray. Is there any advantage to have that part painted? How much weight does it add? Noticed other airlines have gone that route, such as DL, which has DELTA painted on the underbelly on some aircraft.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 3:00 pm
by ncflyer
There’s a whole thread on UAs livery.

Speaking of UA, going up to 10 a day on EWR according to Eniliria thread? Wow that’s gotta be one of EWRs most frequent markets outside of hubs or major business centers such as Boston. Way more seats than CLE in spite of CLEs United heritage.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:01 pm
by JamesRenard
UA is also increasing frequency on IAH-PIT from 5x to 6x daily according to the OAG thread.

Checking Google Flights, the mainline flights on IAH-PIT and EWR-PIT are staying intact.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:00 pm
by AaronPGH
ncflyer wrote:
There’s a whole thread on UAs livery.

Speaking of UA, going up to 10 a day on EWR according to Eniliria thread? Wow that’s gotta be one of EWRs most frequent markets outside of hubs or major business centers such as Boston. Way more seats than CLE in spite of CLEs United heritage.


CLE still has UA to LGA in addition to EWR, which I am jealous of.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:07 pm
by flyPIT
ncflyer wrote:
Speaking of UA, going up to 10 a day on EWR according to Eniliria thread? Wow that’s gotta be one of EWRs most frequent markets outside of hubs or major business centers such as Boston. Way more seats than CLE in spite of CLEs United heritage.

Well Pittsburgh-New York certainly is a major business market. If UAL keeps adding capacity on this route at some point I would think it consists of upgauging to more mainline. I don't see the point of increasing frequency beyond the 10x daily. While it's great to see UAL continue to add seats at PIT, historically the route has a long way to go to match the capacity once offered by PE (up to 11x daily 727/737s) or CO (4x daily A300s).

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:29 am
by corkscrew
Has there been any word recently on further charter flights with Caissa Touristic, either with China Eastern or someone else?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:00 pm
by steeler83
4x daily CO A300s? On PIT-EWR? When did CO have that for a schedule??? I know when I was a freshman in college (2002-03), US flew PIT-PHL a coulple times daily with the 762. I thought they were the only airline since 1990 to run heavies on such a short hop.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:17 pm
by flyPIT
steeler83 wrote:
4x daily CO A300s? On PIT-EWR? When did CO have that for a schedule??? I know when I was a freshman in college (2002-03), US flew PIT-PHL a coulple times daily with the 762. I thought they were the only airline since 1990 to run heavies on such a short hop.

Late 1992 and/or early 1993.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:20 pm
by steeler83
flyPIT wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
4x daily CO A300s? On PIT-EWR? When did CO have that for a schedule??? I know when I was a freshman in college (2002-03), US flew PIT-PHL a coulple times daily with the 762. I thought they were the only airline since 1990 to run heavies on such a short hop.

Late 1992 and/or early 1993.

Wow, then that would likely have been right after the new terminal opened at least - or right around when it opened (1 Oct. 1992).

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:52 pm
by flyPIT
The Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission updated their long range transportation plan for the region. Included in the "Beyond Fiscal Capacity" wish list (2045 timeframe) is extending the West Busway to the airport at a cost of a whopping $1 billion.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/05/06/Southwestern-Pennsylvania-Commission-long-range-plan-12-6-billion-transportation-projects/stories/201905050120

Other airport area items are "Enlow Rd Airport Access", "New McClaren Rd. Bridge", and Clinton Rd/Rt. 30 improvements.
https://www.spcregion.org/pdf/SmartMoves/SM_App_IV_Vision_All.pdf
(page 89)

Enlow road is the access to the ARFF training facility; I'm not sure what improvements this would entail. Some airport master plans have logistics related development on the south side of PIT so maybe its related.

Is there something wrong with the McClaren Rd bridge? It's barely 25 years old! Another PennDot design F-up, like the Thorn Run interchange?

$1 billion to extend the busway seems like a crazy number. Why so much to build what is essentially an 8 mile two lane road? Makes the cost/benefit of the MFE and Southern Beltway look like great value for money. The cover photo in the P-G article is a perfect example of what has been wrong with the region's transportation planning. Specifically, piecemeal improvements instead of an integrated broad plan. The picture shows the inadequate Parkway West at Carnegie, location of the most dangerous on and of ramps with I-376... but also location of those newish West Busway ramps (pictured) which go unused 99.9% of the day. Perhaps they should have designed a completely new Carnegie interchange which could have incorporated the busway access? Too much common sense?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:19 pm
by Runway28L
flyPIT wrote:
Is there something wrong with the McClaren Rd bridge? It's barely 25 years old! Another PennDot design F-up, like the Thorn Run interchange?

I thought they just did work on that bridge in the past year too.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:26 pm
by AaronPGH
I wonder if the $1 billion is accounting for exclusive ROW access through downtown, including a new bridge? Or something along those lines. That's the only way I can wrap my brain around that number being so high. I really hope there's a middle ground step they could take, such as eliminating pressure points / unnecessary stops as possible (like the Robinson stops, trying to squeeze in a bus ROW lane here and there along the way.)

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:30 pm
by ctrabs0114
AaronPGH wrote:
I wonder if the $1 billion is accounting for exclusive ROW access through downtown, including a new bridge? Or something along those lines. That's the only way I can wrap my brain around that number being so high. I really hope there's a middle ground step they could take, such as eliminating pressure points / unnecessary stops as possible (like the Robinson stops, trying to squeeze in a bus ROW lane here and there along the way.)


If you've ever seen the Fort Pitt Bridge and East Carson during rush hour, you'd understand why not having a bus-only ROW is necessary for the West Busway corridor.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:54 pm
by ConcourseZ
Anyone know how the 4B service is performing so far?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:38 pm
by flyPIT
The collaboration between PIT and CMU (Carnegie-Mellon Univ) is already showing positive results and making global headlines:
https://www.aucklandmagazine.com/collision-detecting-suitcase-way-finding-app-will-help-visually-impaired-travellers-to-navigate-airports/

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:45 pm
by PITexpress
flyPIT wrote:
The picture shows the inadequate Parkway West at Carnegie, location of the most dangerous on and of ramps with I-376... but also location of those newish West Busway ramps (pictured) which go unused 99.9% of the day. Perhaps they should have designed a completely new Carnegie interchange which could have incorporated the busway access? Too much common sense?


Totally agree, I think it was such a foolish decision to build the busway ramps like that. I remember driving by years ago during their construction and thinking "finally, they are building a better interchange for Carnegie." Nope. I personally think most of I-376 west should be entirely rebuilt, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:26 pm
by flyPIT
PITexpress wrote:
Totally agree, I think it was such a foolish decision to build the busway ramps like that. I remember driving by years ago during their construction and thinking "finally, they are building a better interchange for Carnegie." Nope.

I thought the exact same. IIRC the two ramps cost $40 million at the time. The thing that I hate about it most is it looks like there is not enough spacing with the ramps to have I-376 widened to 4 lanes each way some day (more poor planning), and that they are only available to Port Authority vehicles. The entire busway should be open to ALL buses, hotel shuttles, courtesy vans, etc, and the Carnegie busway ramps should be available to all vehicles entering or exiting I-376 at Carnegie.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:07 pm
by PITexpress
flyPIT wrote:
PITexpress wrote:
Totally agree, I think it was such a foolish decision to build the busway ramps like that. I remember driving by years ago during their construction and thinking "finally, they are building a better interchange for Carnegie." Nope.

I thought the exact same. IIRC the two ramps cost $40 million at the time. The thing that I hate about it most is it looks like there is not enough spacing with the ramps to have I-376 widened to 4 lanes each way some day (more poor planning), and that they are only available to Port Authority vehicles. The entire busway should be open to ALL buses, hotel shuttles, courtesy vans, etc, and the Carnegie busway ramps should be available to all vehicles entering or exiting I-376 at Carnegie.


Again I 100% agree with you there, it makes perfect logical sense to me. But I'm sure because that 40 million came from the Port Authority that no one else is allowed to use that road. I would love to see the entire 376 West corridor remade to three lanes in each direction, similar to what they did just after the I-79 interchange headed outbound. I also very much dislike the "climb" up from the Fort Pitt Tunnels to Greentree as well. And I'm upset by the huge rush hour delays caused by removing the cloverleaf and installing traffic signals at the US22 interchange. Now the parkway becomes a parkway between 79 and Robinson for no good reason in the afternoons. The reason they did that because they didn't want to spend the money to properly rebuild the 376/22 interchange to bring it up to interstate standards.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:33 pm
by flyPIT
PITexpress wrote:
I'm sure because that 40 million came from the Port Authority that no one else is allowed to use that road.

But you have to look at where the Port Authority gets its funding for capital projetcs. Much of it was federal grants (which allowed completion of the tunnel to nowhere), and the PA Turnpike Commission. Talking about robbing Peter to pay Paul, the Turnpike Commission's debt increased exponentially since Rendell's legislation forcing the Turnpike to fund state transit authorities.

For that reason, the Port Authority should have no say if ways can be found to increase the use of the busways in a manner that does not significantly impact the operation of their buses. Putting Megabus, Greyhound, hotel shuttles, etc on the busways should not affect PAT one iota.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:10 pm
by AaronPGH
From what I know, the reason the busways are only for PAT use is because of extra insurance costs if opened to others. That's what someone in the city told me at one point.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:47 pm
by burghpyro
Runway28L wrote:
Pics of the new UA livery stopping by today:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pitairpor ... 8408672294

A fourth 911th C-17 has now been based at PIT. Arrived late last night and is currently parked between the south apron and Atlantic.


It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Better than the last one, but not their best.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:56 pm
by burghpyro
PITexpress wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
PITexpress wrote:
Totally agree, I think it was such a foolish decision to build the busway ramps like that. I remember driving by years ago during their construction and thinking "finally, they are building a better interchange for Carnegie." Nope.

I thought the exact same. IIRC the two ramps cost $40 million at the time. The thing that I hate about it most is it looks like there is not enough spacing with the ramps to have I-376 widened to 4 lanes each way some day (more poor planning), and that they are only available to Port Authority vehicles. The entire busway should be open to ALL buses, hotel shuttles, courtesy vans, etc, and the Carnegie busway ramps should be available to all vehicles entering or exiting I-376 at Carnegie.


Again I 100% agree with you there, it makes perfect logical sense to me. But I'm sure because that 40 million came from the Port Authority that no one else is allowed to use that road. I would love to see the entire 376 West corridor remade to three lanes in each direction, similar to what they did just after the I-79 interchange headed outbound. I also very much dislike the "climb" up from the Fort Pitt Tunnels to Greentree as well. And I'm upset by the huge rush hour delays caused by removing the cloverleaf and installing traffic signals at the US22 interchange. Now the parkway becomes a parkway between 79 and Robinson for no good reason in the afternoons. The reason they did that because they didn't want to spend the money to properly rebuild the 376/22 interchange to bring it up to interstate standards.


That cloverleaf was one of the worst I had ever seen. Not enough room to merge. Had to basically gun it to get up to speed to get in with the rest of the traffic.

How much would it cost to widen the Parkway West from the tunnels to the Airport Expressway?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:32 am
by pgh234
flyPIT wrote:
The thing that I hate about it most is it looks like there is not enough spacing with the ramps to have I-376 widened to 4 lanes each way some day (more poor planning), and that they are only available to Port Authority vehicles. The entire busway should be open to ALL buses, hotel shuttles, courtesy vans, etc, and the Carnegie busway ramps should be available to all vehicles entering or exiting I-376 at Carnegie.


1) Yes, this terrible lack of planning will make actually widening the Parkway even more impossible to budget for in the future. This extraordinarily poor planning by politicians is similar to the idea to eliminate one of the runways at the "new" airport to "save" money as well as the separate idea to eliminate the ROW obtained to have the Mon-Fayette Expressway leg that would by-pass the Squirrel Hill tunnels. It is a heck of a lot more expensive to take care of 50 years into the future when you really need those resources and gave up that valuable resource (who knows what service PIT will have 20 or 50 years from now??). However, what politician thinks 50 years into the future (answer: none)

2) There is no way the busway will ever be open to non-Port Authority traffic (since the feds paid for it to be mass transit). This is similar logic to how the unused HOV lanes cannot be turned into normal lanes on a permanent basis (the feds paid for them to be HOV's) and I-80 will never be tolled (the federal tax payers already paid for the highway and should not be allowed to pay for it again).

burghpyro wrote:
How much would it cost to widen the Parkway West from the tunnels to the Airport Expressway?


Many billions upon billions of dollars with about 4 decades of planning, environmental studies, lawsuits, social justice area studies, endless legal battles with the railroad, and political battles (i.e. see how our current mayoral administration killed the Mon-Fayette expressway bypass around the Squirrel Hill tunnels the PA Turnpike Commission was planning.) The largest Project awarded this year in Allegheny County by PennDOT was only $26 Million...as increasing amounts of money head east depending on who is in the governor's office.

PITexpress wrote:
And I'm upset by the huge rush hour delays caused by removing the cloverleaf and installing traffic signals at the US22 interchange. Now the parkway becomes a parkway between 79 and Robinson for no good reason in the afternoons. The reason they did that because they didn't want to spend the money to properly rebuild the 376/22 interchange to bring it up to interstate standards.


The reason they didn't properly rebuild it is not because they didn't want to...but because they didn't have the money on this side of the state. I actually think District 11 does a decent job with their very limited amount of resources in today's regulatory environment. I personally think it dramatically improved the interchange (once they changed that stop sign to a yield sign on 22/30).

flyPIT wrote:
But you have to look at where the Port Authority gets its funding for capital projetcs. Much of it was federal grants (which allowed completion of the tunnel to nowhere), and the PA Turnpike Commission. Talking about robbing Peter to pay Paul, the Turnpike Commission's debt increased exponentially since Rendell's legislation forcing the Turnpike to fund state transit authorities.


That's how the government works. The politicians are milking the PA Turnpike into oblivion completely legally. In the future....someone will have to pay the bill for the nearly criminal acts of politicians of the past. However, no politician now cares about that.

Also, your "tunnel to nowhere" is rather heavily used and provided a necessary link to, within the next few centuries, extend service to the North Hills and the Airport. Certainly better to build it before they developed the North Shore. While I disagree with how the government works, I sure am happy they "wasted" the money in Pittsburgh instead of somewhere else.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
by Runway28L
JetBlue will be moving to gate B29 soon. Jetway is currently being refurbished and B6 signage is officially up at that gate.

PITexpress wrote:
Totally agree, I think it was such a foolish decision to build the busway ramps like that. I remember driving by years ago during their construction and thinking "finally, they are building a better interchange for Carnegie." Nope. I personally think most of I-376 west should be entirely rebuilt, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

As someone who commutes on this road nearly every single day, I could not agree more. That would be an absolute dream. But like others have hashed over, the money just isn’t there. Also, at some point, that road is going to have to be completely resurfaced soon. It is in such poor shape from Campbell’s Run Road to Steubenville Pike. I wonder if that’s being held back until the new Southern Beltway opens, since any alternate routes to avoid construction of such project either don’t exist or aren’t practical for most travelers.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:21 am
by pgh234
Runway28L wrote:
As someone who commutes on this road nearly every single day, I could not agree more. That would be an absolute dream. But like others have hashed over, the money just isn’t there. Also, at some point, that road is going to have to be completely resurfaced soon. It is in such poor shape from Campbell’s Run Road to Steubenville Pike. I wonder if that’s being held back until the new Southern Beltway opens, since any alternate routes to avoid construction of such project either don’t exist or aren’t practical for most travelers.


That job bids this month with construction starting soon after (Which I forgot about...this will be the largest job in District 11 this year) It will not (cannot) wait until the Beltway opens in a few years.

http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/SVBSLSearch?action=showResults

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 am
by Runway28L
pgh234 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
As someone who commutes on this road nearly every single day, I could not agree more. That would be an absolute dream. But like others have hashed over, the money just isn’t there. Also, at some point, that road is going to have to be completely resurfaced soon. It is in such poor shape from Campbell’s Run Road to Steubenville Pike. I wonder if that’s being held back until the new Southern Beltway opens, since any alternate routes to avoid construction of such project either don’t exist or aren’t practical for most travelers.


That job bids this month with construction starting soon after (Which I forgot about...this will be the largest job in District 11 this year) It will not (cannot) wait until the Beltway opens in a few years.

http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/SVBSLSearch?action=showResults

That’s good to see it’s happening sooner rather than later. But that’s gonna make getting to PIT (and Moon Twp as part of my commute) real tricky. Only alternate for me is PA 51 and PA 980, and the latter can get problematic when everyone detours through there, especially in the afternoon.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 am
by ConcourseZ
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:17 am
by Runway28L
ConcourseZ wrote:
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?

A few weeks ago, I saw a G4 A319, a UA E170, and a 4B PC-12 all take RWY 14. I remember we had crazy weather that day and they quickly went back to the 28s after that. First and only time I’ve seen them use 14 for arrivals... I had to do a double take.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:22 am
by flyPIT
ConcourseZ wrote:
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?

I don't work there, but I've been following things at PIT since 1983 to include plenty of spotting back in the day. I've seen only one landing on 14, in the mid 1980's when the old terminal was in use. The airport was in an east configuration. It was an Allegheny Commuter Twin Otter, most likely with instructions to hold short of 10C. The weather was fine.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:43 am
by RichardWelling
Does anyone know how QR is doing? Has their outbound flights going out full? Is the QR flight still receiving subsidies from the airport?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:46 am
by Delta28L
ConcourseZ wrote:
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?


I’ve seen take offs from RWY 14. Fedex and UPS uses it sometimes at night so they don’t have to take off over populated areas when they have takeoffs to the east. RWY 32 gets a lot of usage through out the day. I’ve seen the 28s and 32 in use depending on the flights. SWA, DL, private jets and Cargo are the big users of 32 since they have a quick taxi to their gates and ramps.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:11 am
by Flaps
Runway28L wrote:
ConcourseZ wrote:
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?

A few weeks ago, I saw a G4 A319, a UA E170, and a 4B PC-12 all take RWY 14. I remember we had crazy weather that day and they quickly went back to the 28s after that. First and only time I’ve seen them use 14 for arrivals... I had to do a double take.


I saw those plus a few more that day. A KC-135, a DL M88 and CR9. Only time in all my years I've seen 14 used for arrivals though I've seen plenty of 14 departures. Only thing I haven't seen now is a departure off of 32.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:42 am
by ctrabs0114
AaronPGH wrote:
From what I know, the reason the busways are only for PAT use is because of extra insurance costs if opened to others. That's what someone in the city told me at one point.


Suburban agencies from Beaver County, Westmoreland County and Washington County pay PAT to access the East, West and South busways; those operators have to go through specific training to be certified to operate their agencies' vehicles on the busways. Also, I think there have been some reports that Lenzner coaches occasionally will use the West Busway with a police escort to accommodate either outbound (Steelers or Pitt) football to get to PIT or inbound (visiting teams arriving in Pittsburgh), but don't quote me on that one.

Also, emergency vehicles are allowed to access the busways.

The issue isn't just insurance, but it's probably also a matter of training the various entities who'd be interested in using the busway network.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:55 am
by ctrabs0114
pgh234 wrote:
2) There is no way the busway will ever be open to non-Port Authority traffic (since the feds paid for it to be mass transit). This is similar logic to how the unused HOV lanes cannot be turned into normal lanes on a permanent basis (the feds paid for them to be HOV's) and I-80 will never be tolled (the federal tax payers already paid for the highway and should not be allowed to pay for it again).


As mentioned in my reply to AaronPGH on this topic, suburban transit agencies whose operators are trained and certified to do so are allowed to access the busways upon payment of access fees to PAT (Westmoreland Transit accesses the East Busway; New Castle and Beaver County buses layover at the Penn Station recovery point; Beaver County and Washington County buses access the West Busway; and Mid Mon Valley Transit buses access the South Busway). In addition, police, fire and EMS vehicles are permitted to access the busways under certain circumstances. So, perhaps clarifying that to "non-public transit agency AND public safety traffic" would be more accurate, but otherwise, your point is well taken.

As far as unused HOV lanes, they are opened to general traffic during off-peak hours heading outbound from Downtown (weeknights and all-day on weekends). In North Texas, some HOV lanes have been converted into tolled "managed lanes" where single occupancy vehicles are allowed to access them and are charged variable-rate tolls. The I-35E/Stemmons Freeway heading northwest out of Downtown Dallas towards Denton County and the I-635/LBJ Freeway are two examples of this. I'm presuming you're referring to the Parkway North (279) HOV lanes and the Wabash HOV tunnel (the latter of which is a white elephant which makes the T North Shore Extension look like a stroke of genius). In theory, if PennDOT wanted to, they could look into a tolled managed lanes scheme for the Parkway North HOV, though I don't know what regulatory hoops they'd have to jump through in Pennsylvania to get it done.

As far as I-80 is concerned, if the area was more urbanized, then PennDOT could explore the tolled managed lane/HOV scheme on certain portions of that corridor as a way around the federal restrictions on tolling existing interstates (TxDOT did the same thing when they added the managed lanes along I-35W north of Downtown Fort Worth).

Sorry to take this off the aviation-theme of the topic, but I just wanted to add in some perspective. I'm not in any way suggesting or supporting these ideas for Western Pennsylvania, but I'm adding some context to what PennDOT could (at least in theory) do.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:55 pm
by flyPIT
While we are talking about non-aviation things, I found this article about an "AI Triangle" which consists of PIT, YUL, and BOS interesting:

"For Pittsburgh tech companies looking at expansion opportunities, Kenny Chen, who leads Pittsburgh’s local chapter of the global City AI organization, hopes they seriously consider Montreal, Quebec.

Chen hosted an event at Ascender Tuesday afternoon, featuring Canadian representatives from Montreal International and Invest Quebec, hoping to convince the city’s tech ecosystem leaders of the benefits of relationships with Montreal and how to navigate those international business opportunities.

Chen himself has been traveling between Pittsburgh and Montreal frequently as he works to foster partnerships. Just last month he led a group of Pittsburghers to Montreal to attend the World Summit AI Americas. It’s one more link in the growth of an “AI Triangle” between Pittsburgh, Montreal and Boston that Chen said is on track to be formally branded later this year.

The event’s purpose was not to encourage Pittsburghers to pack up and move to Montreal, Chen said, but rather to increase stakeholder awareness of the parallel innovation hub as a “critical ingredient” in Pittsburgh’s own success.

“I could see gears turning in people’s heads because you probably see a lot of the same kinds of [Powerpoint] slides as Pittsburgh markets itself to the rest of the world,” said Chen. “…Within Canada I feel like Montreal stands out as the closest to our ethos and our business and academic environment.”

The event covered the main challenges in Pittsburgh’s tech ecosystem that Pittsburgh AI believes can be addressed through collaboration with Montreal, starting with talent attraction and workforce retention.
"
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2019/05/07/city-ai-holds-event-to-promote-montreal-and-the-ai.html


I'm curious to see what happens to AC's PIT-YUL flight after the one year incentive period ends this fall, if anything. AC is increasing BWI-YUL to 2x daily for the summer. PIT-YUL started at the same time as BWI-YUL and IIRC the PIT flight's LF is about 10 points lower.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:22 pm
by PITexpress
burghpyro wrote:
That cloverleaf was one of the worst I had ever seen. Not enough room to merge. Had to basically gun it to get up to speed to get in with the rest of the traffic.


Certainly it was not great. The whole interchange should have been completely reconstructed but due to the lack of funds, it technically does not meet "interstate standards."they were able to get out of the reconstruction by adding in the stop/yield sign. But it still backs up onto the parkway in the afternoons.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:39 pm
by steeler83
^^ Odds are AC will probably keep their frequencies the same. What are the loads like on AC's YUL flights, 75-80 percent full?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:35 pm
by burghpyro
pgh234 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
The thing that I hate about it most is it looks like there is not enough spacing with the ramps to have I-376 widened to 4 lanes each way some day (more poor planning), and that they are only available to Port Authority vehicles. The entire busway should be open to ALL buses, hotel shuttles, courtesy vans, etc, and the Carnegie busway ramps should be available to all vehicles entering or exiting I-376 at Carnegie.


1) Yes, this terrible lack of planning will make actually widening the Parkway even more impossible to budget for in the future. This extraordinarily poor planning by politicians is similar to the idea to eliminate one of the runways at the "new" airport to "save" money as well as the separate idea to eliminate the ROW obtained to have the Mon-Fayette Expressway leg that would by-pass the Squirrel Hill tunnels. It is a heck of a lot more expensive to take care of 50 years into the future when you really need those resources and gave up that valuable resource (who knows what service PIT will have 20 or 50 years from now??). However, what politician thinks 50 years into the future (answer: none)

2) There is no way the busway will ever be open to non-Port Authority traffic (since the feds paid for it to be mass transit). This is similar logic to how the unused HOV lanes cannot be turned into normal lanes on a permanent basis (the feds paid for them to be HOV's) and I-80 will never be tolled (the federal tax payers already paid for the highway and should not be allowed to pay for it again).

burghpyro wrote:
How much would it cost to widen the Parkway West from the tunnels to the Airport Expressway?


Many billions upon billions of dollars with about 4 decades of planning, environmental studies, lawsuits, social justice area studies, endless legal battles with the railroad, and political battles (i.e. see how our current mayoral administration killed the Mon-Fayette expressway bypass around the Squirrel Hill tunnels the PA Turnpike Commission was planning.) The largest Project awarded this year in Allegheny County by PennDOT was only $26 Million...as increasing amounts of money head east depending on who is in the governor's office.

PITexpress wrote:
And I'm upset by the huge rush hour delays caused by removing the cloverleaf and installing traffic signals at the US22 interchange. Now the parkway becomes a parkway between 79 and Robinson for no good reason in the afternoons. The reason they did that because they didn't want to spend the money to properly rebuild the 376/22 interchange to bring it up to interstate standards.


The reason they didn't properly rebuild it is not because they didn't want to...but because they didn't have the money on this side of the state. I actually think District 11 does a decent job with their very limited amount of resources in today's regulatory environment. I personally think it dramatically improved the interchange (once they changed that stop sign to a yield sign on 22/30).

flyPIT wrote:
But you have to look at where the Port Authority gets its funding for capital projetcs. Much of it was federal grants (which allowed completion of the tunnel to nowhere), and the PA Turnpike Commission. Talking about robbing Peter to pay Paul, the Turnpike Commission's debt increased exponentially since Rendell's legislation forcing the Turnpike to fund state transit authorities.


That's how the government works. The politicians are milking the PA Turnpike into oblivion completely legally. In the future....someone will have to pay the bill for the nearly criminal acts of politicians of the past. However, no politician now cares about that.

Also, your "tunnel to nowhere" is rather heavily used and provided a necessary link to, within the next few centuries, extend service to the North Hills and the Airport. Certainly better to build it before they developed the North Shore. While I disagree with how the government works, I sure am happy they "wasted" the money in Pittsburgh instead of somewhere else.


I didn't know they killed the final phase of the "beltway". That would've helped traffic so much getting to the east side of town without going through downtown. I always wondered why other cities have beltways like Columbus or Indianapolis, but Pittsburgh can not get one. I know the terrain is significantly tougher here than the flat areas of Central Ohio, but you'd think something would have been done already

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 5:48 pm
by Runway28L
steeler83 wrote:
^^ Odds are AC will probably keep their frequencies the same. What are the loads like on AC's YUL flights, 75-80 percent full?

Aug 2018
AC PIT-YUL: 71%
AC YUL-PIT: 64%

Sept 2018
AC PIT-YUL: 73%
AC YUL-PIT: 64%

Oct 2018
AC PIT-YUL: 67%
AC YUL-PIT: 58%

FWIW YUL loads were either slightly lower or similar to YYZ loads. Also, looking at fares on 7/15, PIT-YUL is $218. Three of the four daily PIT-YYZ flights are $206 (one was $304).

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:21 pm
by GSP psgr
Managed to book my return from Europe to New York utilizing BA171 on a Tuesday to support the service. FWIW, it was pricing out like $30 cheaper via PIT to LGA rather than direct to JFK. I'm also stopping over for the day. Someone needs their Pamela's/Tessaro's/Mineo's fix........

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:48 pm
by flyPIT
burghpyro wrote:
I didn't know they killed the final phase of the "beltway". That would've helped traffic so much getting to the east side of town without going through downtown. I always wondered why other cities have beltways like Columbus or Indianapolis, but Pittsburgh can not get one. I know the terrain is significantly tougher here than the flat areas of Central Ohio, but you'd think something would have been done already

They did not kill the final leg of the beltway. The "final leg" (in name only) is from I-79 to Jefferson Hills where it will tie in to the MFE. This portion will be built. I say "final in name only" because the actual final leg would be the last section of the MFE which will go from Jefferson Hills to Monroeville. As far as I know this final section of the MFE will also be built. It is the most important piece to the entire puzzle but unfortunately will be built last. This final piece of the MFE will allow for a continuous beltway around 3/4 of the city when including the existing Turnpike and Southern Beltway.

The portion that got cancelled is a portion of the MFE from the North Versailles area along the northern side of the Monongahela to I-376 at Hazelwood. It would have allowed a route from Monroeville to downtown bypassing the Squirrel Hill tunnels. The city did not cancel it, they don't have that authority, but the Turnpike Commission did so due to overwhelming opposition in Hazelwood and Braddock. One compromise I really like is to extend the East Busway to the final leg of the MFE which will allow Port Authority buses to run all the way to Monroeville.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words. The "final" (in name only) section of the Southern Beltway is in Brown. The final section of the MFE is in yellow.
Image


The cancelled portion of the MFE is black. The proposed busway extension to the MFE is dashed red:
Image

The MFE south of California, PA was such a colossal waste of money. If they had started this thing at the northern end where it is needed most it would have been finished ny now.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:58 pm
by burghpyro
flyPIT wrote:
burghpyro wrote:
I didn't know they killed the final phase of the "beltway". That would've helped traffic so much getting to the east side of town without going through downtown. I always wondered why other cities have beltways like Columbus or Indianapolis, but Pittsburgh can not get one. I know the terrain is significantly tougher here than the flat areas of Central Ohio, but you'd think something would have been done already

They did not kill the final leg of the beltway. The "final leg" (in name only) is from I-79 to Jefferson Hills where it will tie in to the MFE. This portion will be built. I say "final in name only" because the actual final leg would be the last section of the MFE which will go from Jefferson Hills to Monroeville. As far as I know this final section of the MFE will also be built. It is the most important piece to the entire puzzle but unfortunately will be built last. This final piece of the MFE will allow for a continuous beltway around 3/4 of the city when including the existing Turnpike and Southern Beltway.

The portion that got cancelled is a portion of the MFE from the North Versailles area along the northern side of the Monongahela to I-376 at Hazelwood. It would have allowed a route from Monroeville to downtown bypassing the Squirrel Hill tunnels. The city did not cancel it, they don't have that authority, but the Turnpike Commission did so due to overwhelming opposition in Hazelwood and Braddock. One compromise I really like is to extend the East Busway to the final leg of the MFE which will allow Port Authority buses to run all the way to Monroeville.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words. The "final" (in name only) section of the Southern Beltway is in Brown. The final section of the MFE is in yellow.
Image


The cancelled portion of the MFE is black. The proposed busway extension to the MFE is dashed red:
Image

The MFE south of California, PA was such a colossal waste of money. If they had started this thing at the northern end where it is needed most it would have been finished ny now.


Ohhhh. I completely forgot about this section.

Good response. Do they have any dates for the next couple of phases? I know Phase 2 is supposed to open in the next couple of years, but have they said when the other sections would start?

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:58 am
by flyPIT
Lufthansa put a bid in to acquire Condor.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lufthansa-bids-for-thomas-cooks-condor-457982/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-m-a-lufthansa/germanys-lufthansa-will-bid-for-thomas-cooks-condor-ceo-idUSKCN1SD0OL

Condor was previously wholly owned by LH and operated independently so this could mean nothing. OTOH LH has been poaching some of DE's N. America routes such as SAN and AUS and a takeover would give LH access to all of DE's route revenue data.

I previously thought LH's smallest intercontinental airplane (A333) is too large to serve PIT, but they have since ordered the B789.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:06 am
by AaronPGH
^ I'm really rooting for this tie-up!

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 pm
by steeler83
Having read and re-read both articles, it looks like LH is going to help Condor restructure rather than outright acquire them. At least - that's what I'm gathering anyway. In any event, this should be interesting to watch, and I wish both airlines the best.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:19 pm
by Delta28L
flyPIT wrote:
Lufthansa put a bid in to acquire Condor.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lufthansa-bids-for-thomas-cooks-condor-457982/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-m-a-lufthansa/germanys-lufthansa-will-bid-for-thomas-cooks-condor-ceo-idUSKCN1SD0OL

Condor was previously wholly owned by LH and operated independently so this could mean nothing. OTOH LH has been poaching some of DE's N. America routes such as SAN and AUS and a takeover would give LH access to all of DE's route revenue data.

I previously thought LH's smallest intercontinental airplane (A333) is too large to serve PIT, but they have since ordered the B789.


They are coming back at the end of May with the 767 on Monday’s and Friday’s. I doubt Pittsburgh will see the 787 since LH ordered the 787 for the Lufthansa group. Well probably be a seasonal 767 until they cancel the service or they order more 787s after the initial 787s get placed within the airline group.

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:40 pm
by flyPIT
Delta28L wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Lufthansa put a bid in to acquire Condor.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lufthansa-bids-for-thomas-cooks-condor-457982/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-m-a-lufthansa/germanys-lufthansa-will-bid-for-thomas-cooks-condor-ceo-idUSKCN1SD0OL

Condor was previously wholly owned by LH and operated independently so this could mean nothing. OTOH LH has been poaching some of DE's N. America routes such as SAN and AUS and a takeover would give LH access to all of DE's route revenue data.

I previously thought LH's smallest intercontinental airplane (A333) is too large to serve PIT, but they have since ordered the B789.


They are coming back at the end of May with the 767 on Monday’s and Friday’s. I doubt Pittsburgh will see the 787 since LH ordered the 787 for the Lufthansa group. Well probably be a seasonal 767 until they cancel the service or they order more 787s after the initial 787s get placed within the airline group.


I was implying LH taking over the PIT-FRA route from DE a few years down the road, like they did in SAN and AUS. That possibility became more realistic when LH ordered the B789 for themselves. I could have worded it better.