Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu May 09, 2019 10:39 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Lufthansa put a bid in to acquire Condor.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lufthansa-bids-for-thomas-cooks-condor-457982/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-m-a-lufthansa/germanys-lufthansa-will-bid-for-thomas-cooks-condor-ceo-idUSKCN1SD0OL

Condor was previously wholly owned by LH and operated independently so this could mean nothing. OTOH LH has been poaching some of DE's N. America routes such as SAN and AUS and a takeover would give LH access to all of DE's route revenue data.

I previously thought LH's smallest intercontinental airplane (A333) is too large to serve PIT, but they have since ordered the B789.

I think PIT could be able to an A333 I know it could definitely support a B789 especially since Lufthansa is part of a airline group, Lufthansa is much more well known than Condor is I think that if Lufthansa does buy out Condor and puts one of there planes on the route (which I really hope happens) it would do very well
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 2:12 pm

And just like that, this morning a new proposal for a link to tie in to the final leg of the MFE that will provide for a more direct access in to the city, as well as from the city to AGC. The proposal will run along the north side of AGC:

Image

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/05/10/Mon-Fayette-Expressway-new-highway-Dravosburg-Pittsburgh-200-300-million-PennDOT-Pennsylvania-Turnpike/stories/201905090180

Looking at satellite images, this proposal would have minimal impact on neighborhoods, if any at all. It would probably create impetus for major upgrades to Rt. 885 the rest of the way in to the city which would help Hazlewood Green and other brownfield sites.


Speaking of AGC, the other day I was reminded what a dump it is when I went to LBE for the first time in a while and saw how nice it is over there. The new entrance and traffic circle look great, all the grassy areas well maintained, etc. It has always been a very nice and well maintained airport. I wish AGC would see some investment.
FLYi
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 3:18 pm

I just saw that article too! Seems like a project with potential promise.

I also noticed that the Trib has an article about extending Rt. 28 north to I-80.
https://triblive.com/local/valley-news- ... rstate-80/
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri May 10, 2019 7:10 pm

Interesting highway proposals. I wonder if the Rt. 885 connector as well as the Rt 28 extension will be built to interstate highway standards. That said, I wonder what kind of access the 885 connector will provide to the Allegheny County Airport.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 12:58 am

UA1622 (SFO-IAD) and UA653 (LAX-IAD) are diverting to PIT due to weather. UA727 (SFO-IAD), a B788, is currently holding SW of here. There may be a few more on the way.

Edit: UA727 is now going to CLE.
 
flightsimer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat May 11, 2019 3:00 am

ConcourseZ wrote:
For those who work at the airport, are there ever any landings on 14?

I watched a C130 land on it while I was working on the Charlie pad a few years back.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Looks like G4's PIT-CHS/SAV routes are going year round, which is great to see, although a bit surprising it happens before PIT-AUS/MSY.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:56 pm

Has anyone come across Alaska giving any sort of update with regards to how SEA is doing? Things seem to have been pretty quiet since service started. Outside of a brutal January, loads have looked alright.

The flight is currently flipping back and forth between the B738 and B739, although the latter has started to show up more frequently as of late. Looks like the flight reverts to all-B739 equipment in June.
 
burghpyro
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 9:25 pm

flyPIT wrote:
And just like that, this morning a new proposal for a link to tie in to the final leg of the MFE that will provide for a more direct access in to the city, as well as from the city to AGC. The proposal will run along the north side of AGC:

Image

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2019/05/10/Mon-Fayette-Expressway-new-highway-Dravosburg-Pittsburgh-200-300-million-PennDOT-Pennsylvania-Turnpike/stories/201905090180

Looking at satellite images, this proposal would have minimal impact on neighborhoods, if any at all. It would probably create impetus for major upgrades to Rt. 885 the rest of the way in to the city which would help Hazlewood Green and other brownfield sites.


Speaking of AGC, the other day I was reminded what a dump it is when I went to LBE for the first time in a while and saw how nice it is over there. The new entrance and traffic circle look great, all the grassy areas well maintained, etc. It has always been a very nice and well maintained airport. I wish AGC would see some investment.


Kind of ironic that this came out right when we were discussing it here.

My questions always have been; why make these tolls roads? Seems like you'd get more traffic on them if they weren't toll roads like the Beltway around Columbus (270); and why not make them 3 lanes in each direction knowing that traffic would possibly increase over the years and would more than likely need expanded anyways? When they built 270 around Columbus, it was originally built as a 4 lane highway (2 in each direction). Now it is at least 3 lanes the entire length of the road, 4 lanes on most of it. and 5-7 lanes in each direction in a few spots like near Easton and on the north side from 71 to 315..
- Luke -

Former employee of Southwest Airlines (PIT, CMH, MCO) & ACAA.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 pm

The beltways in Columbus are also partially responsible for the horrid amount of sprawl in that city. Personally, I never want to see a Pittsburgh that looks like that.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 pm

burghpyro wrote:

Kind of ironic that this came out right when we were discussing it here.

My questions always have been; why make these tolls roads? Seems like you'd get more traffic on them if they weren't toll roads like the Beltway around Columbus (270); and why not make them 3 lanes in each direction knowing that traffic would possibly increase over the years and would more than likely need expanded anyways? When they built 270 around Columbus, it was originally built as a 4 lane highway (2 in each direction). Now it is at least 3 lanes the entire length of the road, 4 lanes on most of it. and 5-7 lanes in each direction in a few spots like near Easton and on the north side from 71 to 315..


I think a better question is why are the Turnpike Commission and PennDot not merged in to a single entity? There is so much waste the way things are, including convoluted interchanges between the two such as Harmerville, Cranberry, New Stanton, etc.

One of the Southern Beltway proposals has it paralleling I-79 for a couple miles (upper left of the photo):
Image
WHY?!?! Why not just use the existing I-79 on that stretch? Widen it to 3 or even 4 lanes if necessary. But this is just idiotic waste all because there are two organizations that handle highway planning and construction.

As far as the size of the new toll roads, obviously cost is the driving factor. But I don't care if they are only two lanes each way as long as they get built. As long as there is the ability to widen them if needed in the future. It looks like bridge piers are designed to add a third lane, which is good:

Image


As far as sprawl around Columbus, well that is a metro area that added 200,000 residents over the past 10 years with a booming economy. I think urban sprawl has forced inner cities to reinvent themselves or die. For the most part inner cities in the US have indeed been reinvigorated.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 11:09 pm

Columbus also has the power to annex most of it's suburbs, which it has done. Pittsburgh is stuck with it's early 1900s boundaries, due to state laws. We've done pretty well for ourselves considering that.
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 3:30 am

So I got a question for you guys, a while back I read an article about the British Airways flight, I believe it was on this forum, and how British Airways was worried about not whether the business/first class sits would be filled but if the economy seats would be filled, if that was the case why didn't British Airways fly the 787-9 instead of the 787-8 since the -9 has more business/first class than the -8
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:20 am

Gsasala wrote:
So I got a question for you guys, a while back I read an article about the British Airways flight, I believe it was on this forum, and how British Airways was worried about not whether the business/first class sits would be filled but if the economy seats would be filled, if that was the case why didn't British Airways fly the 787-9 instead of the 787-8 since the -9 has more business/first class than the -8

Good question... and the 789 has 166 economy seats (including premium economy) vs. 179 on the 788.
Here is the article:
https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-pittsburgh-international-airport.html

"But all the while, Cassotis and her team were still pursuing a connection to London. They started, as everyone in the business does, by analyzing traffic data. They knew those numbers alone wouldn’t convince British Airways, so they tried to figure out how they could persuade the airline’s executives that Pittsburgh fit into their business model. “We met them at conferences. We met them at their headquarters,” Cassotis says. “We worked hard to get them here, to actually show them that Pittsburgh is not a rundown steel town, and they were shocked.”

The visits also helped Pittsburgh allay another of the airline’s qualms: that it wouldn’t be able to sell enough tickets in coach. That was an odd thing to be concerned about: Airlines are typically more worried about selling their first class and business class seats, which generate higher profits. As British Airways officials struggled to explain why they were concerned about coach, Cassotis offered this: “Is it that nobody wants to go to Pittsburgh for vacation?” “Exactly,” they said. So Pittsburgh tourism officials played up the city as a place where European visitors could experience America apart from New York, Las Vegas and Orlando.
"

I suppose that is a good problem to have as opposed to not being able to fill up the front end. Anyway, looking at the seating charts, BA seems to have been doing solid the past couple weeks and going forward. The seating charts are not available for dummy bookings within 24 hours, and they usually fill up within that period as people check in. Leading up to that period they already look 80-85% full about 2 days out.

Condor also looks to be doing solid with advance bookings with prices double that of last year in all classes for the first few weeks of flights.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 5:51 am

The B788 and B789 at BA have very similar capacity. But when looking at the seating charts in-depth, they are quite different.

788 35J 25W 154Y (214 total)
789 8F 42J 39W 127Y (216 total)

The B789 has an F class plus larger J and W cabins. The B788 in comparison has a larger Y cabin.

I initially would have thought the route just isn't mature enough yet to handle the bigger B789. It's really interesting however that BA worried more about demand for economy class versus business and premium economy. And this now seems apparent as to why PIT has been advertised more in the UK as a tourist destination, despite the numerous business ties that already exist. Going with the B789 would've made filling up economy easier and maybe offer some more room for premium demand. The B788 however has lower trip costs and likely would have been less of a risk by just offering J and see if the market matures enough to warrant a First Class cabin.

I'm curious to see if or when the B789 gets subbed in on the route. MSY right now sees both the -8 and -9 while BNA got upgraded to the -9 a year after that flight launched. Definitely going to keep an eye out.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 6:09 am

Gsasala wrote:
So I got a question for you guys, a while back I read an article about the British Airways flight, I believe it was on this forum, and how British Airways was worried about not whether the business/first class sits would be filled but if the economy seats would be filled, if that was the case why didn't British Airways fly the 787-9 instead of the 787-8 since the -9 has more business/first class than the -8


For what little anecdotal evidence it offers, my fare was ~$40 lower doing XXX-LHR-PIT-LGA as opposed to XXX-LHR-JFK/EWR. Given the flight timings though, I don't think many other people will be like me wanting to stop over in PIT for ~24h to stuff their faces and see The Frick.
 
acentauri
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 7:16 am

Runway28L wrote:
The B788 and B789 at BA have very similar capacity. But when looking at the seating charts in-depth, they are quite different.

788 35J 25W 154Y (214 total)
789 8F 42J 39W 127Y (216 total)

The B789 has an F class plus larger J and W cabins. The B788 in comparison has a larger Y cabin.

I initially would have thought the route just isn't mature enough yet to handle the bigger B789. It's really interesting however that BA worried more about demand for economy class versus business and premium economy...................


I've wondered this for some time, based on PIT's US history. Does AA route any passengers to their PIT flights for connections to other network cities, or in this case to support a OW carrier's flight?
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:59 am

acentauri wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
The B788 and B789 at BA have very similar capacity. But when looking at the seating charts in-depth, they are quite different.

788 35J 25W 154Y (214 total)
789 8F 42J 39W 127Y (216 total)

The B789 has an F class plus larger J and W cabins. The B788 in comparison has a larger Y cabin.

I initially would have thought the route just isn't mature enough yet to handle the bigger B789. It's really interesting however that BA worried more about demand for economy class versus business and premium economy...................


I've wondered this for some time, based on PIT's US history. Does AA route any passengers to their PIT flights for connections to other network cities, or in this case to support a OW carrier's flight?

I think a couple of the smaller regional airlines interline with AA and are timed to connect passengers to the BA LHR flight. IIRC reading a post stating this some months back. Considering these flights are operated using mostly 8 or 9 seaters, how many of these people are likely connecting? If I had to guess, I'd say maybe another ten pax a day, tops; these passengers (flying out of Altoona, Bradford, etc) are likely ending their trips in Pittsburgh instead of connecting onward.

All of that said, I'm not sure if you have to book AOO-PIT and PIT-LHR separately or not. There may have been information regarding this a while back; I just don't remember.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 12:53 pm

I have been able to find fully connecting flights to LHR via PIT on Expedia, but not the AA or BA sites. And not just that flight, but other atypical connections as well (like Denver to Newark via PIT on UA). Not sure what Expedia does differently, but it's always that site.
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 2:54 pm

Look, it's (almost) PIT's logo on the nacelle of this MD82
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Danish-A ... /5527911/L
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Has ViaAir even operated into PIT at all this month? I’m seeing every flight up to 5/3 listed as cancelled.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SRY4511
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Has ViaAir even operated into PIT at all this month? I’m seeing every flight up to 5/3 listed as cancelled.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SRY4511


They've run a few. Well, they've been manning their counter at least (sort of).
 
Delta28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 9:57 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Has ViaAir even operated into PIT at all this month? I’m seeing every flight up to 5/3 listed as cancelled.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SRY4511


I think they are running. They come in late mornings and leave in the early afternoons around lunch time.
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 10:51 pm

A quick revisit regarding Columbus.......interesting article in a national publication about Ohio and Columbus. Columbus really isn't booming. Ohio is losing a lot of population and is getting older quickly. The vast majority of people moving to Columbus are from within Ohio. Very little coming in from outside of Ohio. In other words, it's not a sustainable situation, according to the article. With the coming decline in new auto demand, Ohio's auto sector, centered in the Columbus area, will be hit hard. Another reason not to build a lot of highways long-term. Autonomous vehicles will develop the ride-share market, which will take cars off the road. Average auto spends 95% of the day parked. That will change. It could happen sooner than anyone thinks.
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 12:52 am

I’d like to read that article can you please tell us where to find it. What does it have to do with Pittsburgh, which faces demographic challenges of its own?
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 11:07 am

ncflyer wrote:
I’d like to read that article can you please tell us where to find it. What does it have to do with Pittsburgh, which faces demographic challenges of its own?

Despite outward appearances, Columbus isn't attracting people from the outside whereas Pittsburgh is.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 4:34 pm

I read the same article, I believe this is it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsa ... ll-it-last

Speaking on Columbus' growth, this is also a city that has basically annexed all of its suburbs to fuel it. For a very long time, most of it's growth was just them eating everything around them. Pittsburgh's boundaries have been set since the early 1900s and cannot expand due to state law. Can you imagine if Pittsburgh were allowed to pull most of Allegheny County into its city limits as Columbus has done with Franklin?

Pittsburgh is still leaking population, but there is more to the story than that. If you lift the lid on the demographics, we have more deaths than births. Our large older population is passing or retiring away, and being replaced by younger, wealthier, more educated people. They aren't having children fast enough to outweigh the deaths. Luckily, our in-migration is coming from all over (unlike Columbus), and our international migration is some of the most educated people in the region. It's going to take a while to work through this, but eventually it will turn the corner and be a totally different city.

So, on paper it doesn't look great if you look at just numbers, but I would absolutely not trade economies or situations for anything with Columbus. I am originally from Northeast Ohio, and it's one of the most insular states in the country. Everyone I grew up with is still there, and they all moved to Columbus.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 5:39 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
A quick revisit regarding Columbus.......interesting article in a national publication about Ohio and Columbus. Columbus really isn't booming.
If you think Columbus isn't booming, then you did not read the article.

ConcourseZ wrote:
Ohio's auto sector, centered in the Columbus area, will be hit hard. Another reason not to build a lot of highways long-term. Autonomous vehicles will develop the ride-share market, which will take cars off the road. Average auto spends 95% of the day parked. That will change. It could happen sooner than anyone thinks.
Are autonomous vehicles not vehicles, that need roads? Furthermore, when vehicles do become autonomous, do you think people will pay to have their car parked all day in the city while they are at work, or send that car home? This will put even greater stress on the roads.


AaronPGH wrote:
I read the same article, I believe this is it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsa ... ll-it-last

Speaking on Columbus' growth, this is also a city that has basically annexed all of its suburbs to fuel it. For a very long time, most of it's growth was just them eating everything around them. Pittsburgh's boundaries have been set since the early 1900s and cannot expand due to state law. Can you imagine if Pittsburgh were allowed to pull most of Allegheny County into its city limits as Columbus has done with Franklin?

Pittsburgh is still leaking population, but there is more to the story than that. If you lift the lid on the demographics, we have more deaths than births. Our large older population is passing or retiring away, and being replaced by younger, wealthier, more educated people. They aren't having children fast enough to outweigh the deaths. Luckily, our in-migration is coming from all over (unlike Columbus), and our international migration is some of the most educated people in the region. It's going to take a while to work through this, but eventually it will turn the corner and be a totally different city.

So what if Columbus annexed most of Franklin County. The MSA population growth of Columbus increased by about 200,000 over 10 years. The MSA is more than just Franklin County. Similarly, if Pittsburgh annexed all of Allegheny County, our MSA population would not change one iota. That argument is a red herring.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 7:22 pm

I don't really care if Columbus' MSA has grown 200,000 in 10 years. I would still take Pittsburgh's current demographic shift over that any day.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 pm

As far as demographic change within the urban cores are concerned, I agree.

This is an air service forum. You can’t ignore the MSA as the vast majority of travelers are from outside the urban core, and adding Columbus’s level of MSA growth would not be insignificant for increasing levels of air service.
FLYi
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 9:44 pm

That article was horrible. The author is speaking in hypotheticals. Why couldn’t Columbus draw from rest of the state for many years to come? He gives no reason n other than Ohio has lots of other cities.

Does anyone have an article about Western Pa population outlook? Isn’t PA the oldest state in the nation? That’s not a good place to be.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 9:54 pm

flyPIT wrote:
As far as demographic change within the urban cores are concerned, I agree.

This is an air service forum. You can’t ignore the MSA as the vast majority of travelers are from outside the urban core, and adding Columbus’s level of MSA growth would not be insignificant for increasing levels of air service.


Agreed on Columbus as far as air service goes. Long term, I think CMH is best positioned for the Ohio airports because of it's central location, population increase, and proximity to state government / OSU. I was just biting on the downward spiral that started with the talk of highways and "growth".
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 1:00 am

For autonomous vehicles, the shift is coming to ride sharing not ownership. With ride sharing, cars are utilized more hours per day, resulting in a net decrease in auto impact, such as parking lots, garages, shopping mall parking spaces, etc. They will also be more efficient with traffic management, decreasing traffic congestion. More flow through the current road system than adding more lanes.

The Columbus 'boom' is not sustainable as it is pulling from a fixed and declining population pool.
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 1:47 am

Just a side note, the previous yearly population estimates for Pittsburgh get adjusted each time they bring out a new estimate (why they do this, I have no idea). With the exception of 2011, each year since the 2010 census has had an upward revision in the 2017 estimates:

2012 estimate: 306,211 - 2012 estimate in 2017: 306,469 (+258)
2013 estimate: 305,841 - 2013 estimate in 2017: 307,064 (+1,223)
2014 estimate: 305,412 - 2014 estimate in 2017: 306,181 (+769)
2015 estimate: 304,391 - 2015 estimate in 2017: 304,453 (+62)
2016 estimate: 303,625 - 2016 estimate in 2017: 305,017 (+1,392)

The orginal estimates show gradual decline, while the adjusted estimates show an almost stable population. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the 2018 estimates are released.
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri May 17, 2019 3:41 am

I had a look through the Via Air thread and read about the many flight cancellations. It's really not looking good for the airline.

I decided to see if any of the flights out of PIT were still scheduled on their website. BHM is apparently still running and BDL is still supposed to start on July 22. MEM, however, has had its start date pushed all the way back to September 3!

Although at this rate, I doubt that MEM (and BDL for that matter) will see a single flight.
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 12:52 am

2 more weeks till we get 2 flights to Europe
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 11:48 am

FLYi
 
burghpyro
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 8:34 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
A quick revisit regarding Columbus.......interesting article in a national publication about Ohio and Columbus. Columbus really isn't booming. Ohio is losing a lot of population and is getting older quickly. The vast majority of people moving to Columbus are from within Ohio. Very little coming in from outside of Ohio. In other words, it's not a sustainable situation, according to the article. With the coming decline in new auto demand, Ohio's auto sector, centered in the Columbus area, will be hit hard. Another reason not to build a lot of highways long-term. Autonomous vehicles will develop the ride-share market, which will take cars off the road. Average auto spends 95% of the day parked. That will change. It could happen sooner than anyone thinks.


I'm in Columbus every other weekend and I can for sure say that it is booming. There is construction all over the place and the population continues to climb year after year.
- Luke -

Former employee of Southwest Airlines (PIT, CMH, MCO) & ACAA.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 9:00 pm

flyPIT wrote:
As far as demographic change within the urban cores are concerned, I agree.

This is an air service forum. You can’t ignore the MSA as the vast majority of travelers are from outside the urban core, and adding Columbus’s level of MSA growth would not be insignificant for increasing levels of air service.


There are quite a few bedroom communities to Columbus in the MSA- Newark and Granville are both easy drives and, if you want to lump the CSA in, Zanesville joins the list.

When it comes to air travel, most anyone in the MSA (and then some) still have CMH/LCK as their closest option; I think people underappreciate the size of Ohio. To that end, I grew up in Zanesville and the second- and third-closest airports weren't CVG and CLE, but DAY and CAK.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
ncflyer
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 9:05 pm

How did Columbus population situation even become a thing on this thread? It's not like it's a zero sum game between the two cities. Would be great if they both grew like a weed, and for that matter CLE too.

PIT's traffic growth this year is underwhelming-- 4 months in the books,2% YTD growth, no argument about whether easter falls in March or April, as we've got both months, this summer will see a reduction in international seats. I know the summer peak season can make all the difference but PIT and CLE seem to be plateauing (but CLE probably won't release it's April traffic until a long time from now, I'm just judging through February there).
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 12:10 pm

burghpyro wrote:
ConcourseZ wrote:
A quick revisit regarding Columbus.......interesting article in a national publication about Ohio and Columbus. Columbus really isn't booming. Ohio is losing a lot of population and is getting older quickly. The vast majority of people moving to Columbus are from within Ohio. Very little coming in from outside of Ohio. In other words, it's not a sustainable situation, according to the article. With the coming decline in new auto demand, Ohio's auto sector, centered in the Columbus area, will be hit hard. Another reason not to build a lot of highways long-term. Autonomous vehicles will develop the ride-share market, which will take cars off the road. Average auto spends 95% of the day parked. That will change. It could happen sooner than anyone thinks.


I'm in Columbus every other weekend and I can for sure say that it is booming. There is construction all over the place and the population continues to climb year after year.

The point here is that it's not booming in the way other cities have a boom. This is mostly a redistribution of the existing, shrinking Ohio population to Columbus. It's not a sustainable situation.
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 12:17 pm

Yes, and enough about Columbus.
When the Max returns, will WN start to add flights here?
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 2:24 pm

Did anyone happen to catch the German Air Force A343 that briefly stopped at PIT this past Saturday?
 
Delta28L
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 3:02 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Did anyone happen to catch the German Air Force A343 that briefly stopped at PIT this past Saturday?


What time did it come in and then leave?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:41 pm

Scheduled flights by Fly Louie are toast:

"Fly Louie, a startup charter service that offered shuttle flights from Pittsburgh to a New York-area airport, is suspending service on the route although Pittsburgh is still in the company's plans.

Demand for the six-day-a-week route from Allegheny County Airport in West Mifflin to Westchester County Airport in White Plains, New York, didn't meet expectations, Fly Louie CEO and Founder Julia Takeda told the Business Times said Wednesday. The regular flights, which still have seats available, will end at the end of the month but charter service will still be available and Fly Louie could be back in another regular form. The news was also confirmed by the Allegheny County Airport Authority.

"We're suspending the shuttle but we're not suspending our service to the Pittsburgh market," Takeda said. "We want to take the time to figure out the best way to do that and in a way that's sustainable."

Fly Louie in January began offering seats on nine-passenger Beechcraft KingAir 350s and Pilatus PC-12s using existing charter planes. It targeted business travelers who wanted a less-hassle way to get from the Pittsburgh region to the New York area, which Fly Louie said was a 1,200-passenger-a-day market. Flying from Allegheny County Airport provided a simple experience on the Pittsburgh end and flying to and from White Plains, about 30 miles from midtown Manhattan, allowed easy access by train or other means to the New York region.

It had received strong marks from travelers, who appreciated the concierge service and its reliability. Fly Louie never canceled a flight and will continue to fly through the end of May. Takeda said the service started off strong and received a lot of early success.

"It just didn't grow and demand didn't increase as we expected, and I don't see that changing in the next several months," Takeda said.

Fly Louie has been contacting its regular customers over the past day or so, informing them of the change but also reiterating its commitment to serving Pittsburgh travelers in one way or another. It's fulfilling its commitment to booked passengers. There's been interest from customers about charters from Pittsburgh on turboprop aircraft, which are almost as fast as corporate jets but at a lower cost and higher fuel economy. Fly Louie will offer on-demand service from Pittsburgh with four or more travelers.

Future plans from Pittsburgh, Takeda said, could include focusing on corporate shuttles, serving regular travelers on the route in another way, or using larger aircraft. Fly Louie decided suspending the regular charter service would be a smart approach to the current challenge.
"
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2019/05/22/fly-louie-to-suspend-pittsburgh-new-york-service.html





Another nice write up in the UK media:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-7032977/The-rebirth-Pittsburgh-Fly-direct-British-Airways-Americas-high-tech-hub.html
FLYi
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 8:07 pm

Next Friday, British Airways and Condor should both be on the ground at the exact same time.

DE2098 B763 FRA 1520 PIT 1825
BA171 B788 LHR 1620 PIT 1930

Vacation Express will also be resuming flights to PUJ next Friday on behalf of Swift Air. Likely to be on the B734 but an unexpected upgrade to a 767 would be really cool.

Delta28L wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Did anyone happen to catch the German Air Force A343 that briefly stopped at PIT this past Saturday?


What time did it come in and then leave?

Came in sometime Saturday afternoon, did one touch-and-go, then departed for CLT. Very strange, but I've caught some interesting military movements coming through PIT for pattern work over the past few months.

flyPIT wrote:
Scheduled flights by Fly Louie are toast:

So they are still going to operate into AGC, but rather with charter flights and not scheduled service?
 
Delta28L
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Next Friday, British Airways and Condor should both be on the ground at the exact same time.

DE2098 B763 FRA 1520 PIT 1825
BA171 B788 LHR 1620 PIT 1930



So BA is retiming the LHR flight? Because right now it comes in around 730 pm and leaves around ten pm.
 
Runway28L
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 10:56 pm

Delta28L wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Next Friday, British Airways and Condor should both be on the ground at the exact same time.

DE2098 B763 FRA 1520 PIT 1825
BA171 B788 LHR 1620 PIT 1930



So BA is retiming the LHR flight? Because right now it comes in around 730 pm and leaves around ten pm.

The flight schedule for BA never changed. It’s still a 7:30pm arrival and a 9:50pm departure.

Condor’s schedule is the one that changed. Friday’s flight now gets in at 6:25pm and departs at 8:15pm. Monday’s flight will arrive at 7:05pm and depart at 9:00pm.

Condor is also being moved to gate C60 this year.
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 1615
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 2:56 pm

Yesterday Fly Louie, today Via Airlines:
https://www.cbs42.com/news/local/via-airlines-ceases-commercial-flights-for-birmingham-airport-and-others/2020841726

After the OneJet, Elite, and Via debacles maybe the ACAA will stop going after these chicken shit companies and entice a more stable independent regional such as Silver Airways. With a fleet of ATRs and Saab 340s, they could be a perfect match for flights to places such as RIC, IND, BUF, etc.
FLYi
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2000
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 3:10 pm

Their Facebook page is still up.....their website is also still up, not sure if they're still taking reservations.....most of the comments on their Facebook page have been deleted.
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