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VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:26 am

Wow! I know a 77W top off was theorized here often, but they actually did order 4 more!

Does anyone have an idea what routes might become 77W?

She might be a bit of old tech, but the inside ride (except 10 abreast) makes a very nice impression. I’d be very happy to fly EWR HK etc, on one.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:58 am

A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:

2019 deliveries:
2 777-300ER
8 787-10 (I don't think any more 787-9s come online until 2020)
3 767-300ER (exHA)
21 737-MAX9
5 320/319s (have no idea on the mix)


2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER
3 757-200
?? 320/319

Regarding the Boeing fleet I'm fairly certain those numbers are correct but the Airbus fleet has me baffled. We know they are taking 4 exVueling 320s, at least 7 exCZ319s, possibly 4 319s from a leasing company and 20 exU2 319s starting in 2020. All of them are not necessarily coming online this year but that's a huge of aircraft sitting around waiting for delivery....especially as they are only growing by 5 this year. Are they going to take more than 5 this year and replace some of the older Airbus fleet?
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:16 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Tkt96 wrote:
Q4 earnings shows December 2018 new aircraft orders...
777-300 (+4)
737 MAX (+24)


Interesting. I'm not the biggest fan of buying previous generation aircraft no matter the purchase price, even though the 77W is a fine airplane. It seems great for a while, but then 15/20 years down the road you're looking at early retirement. It's a short-term strategy.


Sometimes the shorter commitment is the better one, especially since UA is already such a big 737/777 operator. With the discounts they're presumably getting, it has to make sense financially for then.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:24 am

United1 wrote:
A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:
2019 deliveries:
3 767-300ER (exHA)
2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER

There are no 763 retirements in 2019. The 3 ex-HA are considered to have been "delivered" in 2018. The 54 number includes them.
16x 764
14x 763 Polaris low-J (incl. 1 in conversion)
20x 763 old config
4x 763 Polaris high-J (incl. 2 in conversion and 2 in storage awaiting conversion)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:38 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
39M
N37510 C1 15Jan “Ready for Delivery” So is FAA back to processing new aircraft, or will this one just sit like 7511? OR.. has 7511 been sitting for weeks because UA wanted/needed 7510 to deliver first?


Both will be stuck until the FAA is back at work. In the Fleet portion of the Investor Update UA published today, there's a note at the bottom about 7511 and one of the 319s that came in late December being stuck due to the government shutdown.

Safety inspectors are being brought back from furlough, albeit without pay like the rest of us. It's going to take a while to clear their backlog though...they're short staffed to begin with, so three weeks of work piled up means they have quite a bit of catch up to do.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:09 pm

jayunited wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Tkt96 wrote:
Q4 earnings shows December 2018 new aircraft orders...
777-300 (+4)
737 MAX (+24)


Interesting. I'm not the biggest fan of buying previous generation aircraft no matter the purchase price, even though the 77W is a fine airplane. It seems great for a while, but then 15/20 years down the road you're looking at early retirement. It's a short-term strategy.

But if you were able to get your monies worth out of the frame because you were able to work out a great deal with Boeing is it really still a short term strategy? UA probably was able to negotiate a better deal with Boeing for more 77Ws than Airbus for the A35J especially seeing UA has deferred those aircraft till 2022 and the 77W is nearing the end of the line.


If you pay 2/3 of the normal price for an a/c and only fly it for 2/3 of its life (20 vs. 30 years) it's a wash. Now, if you can profitably use it for 25 or 30, then it's a huge bonus. The 4 additional units probably have very little incremental cost / no cost to UA as they have the spare parts, service contracts, etc. all in place already. We're all assuming purchase, not lease, right?

The only "strange" part of the equation is where UA announced 789 order in July and Oct and these were signed in Dec. It will be interesting to see if these are in addition to or replacement of those or any other w/b orders. If they are pure adds, bravo UA.

Could 77W freighter conversions also factor into this decision? Not sure if there is an aftermarket.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:44 pm

fun2fly wrote:
If you pay 2/3 of the normal price for an a/c and only fly it for 2/3 of its life (20 vs. 30 years) it's a wash. Now, if you can profitably use it for 25 or 30, then it's a huge bonus. The 4 additional units probably have very little incremental cost / no cost to UA as they have the spare parts, service contracts, etc. all in place already. We're all assuming purchase, not lease, right?

The only "strange" part of the equation is where UA announced 789 order in July and Oct and these were signed in Dec. It will be interesting to see if these are in addition to or replacement of those or any other w/b orders. If they are pure adds, bravo UA.

Could 77W freighter conversions also factor into this decision? Not sure if there is an aftermarket.


From what I've seen and I haven't yet seen the most up to date information I believe the 4 frames are pure adds and not replacements for any other orders. UA is still taking delivery of all fourteen 787-10s, the additional nine 789s (as far as I know) are still on the books and I believe deliveries start in 2020 for those, and the four 77Ws are coming UA expects to take delivery of at least 2 sometime later this year.

Although UA officially will only have fourteen 787-10s in the fleet from documents that I've seen there are 11 more frames which have not been publicly confirmed. Perhaps (and this is just my opinion) instead of the 11 additional 787-10s UA and Boeing cut a deal to replace 4 of those (supposedly) future orders for 4 firm orders for the 77W. This is purely speculation on my part because UA has not publicly announced these 11 additional 787-10s, for now they only exist on internal documents which is where these four 77Ws existed until yesterday when UA finally made the announcement public.

When UA order a total of nine more 789s I was shocked, I fully expected UA to order the 787-10 because I hadn't seen anything referencing more 789s. Also I had all but given up hope on more 77Ws because there was no public confirmation of this order by either Boeing or UA. So it just goes to show you people like myself don't have access to all the pertinent information those 789 orders in 2018 caught me completely by surprise.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:18 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
United1 wrote:
A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:
2019 deliveries:
3 767-300ER (exHA)
2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER

There are no 763 retirements in 2019. The 3 ex-HA are considered to have been "delivered" in 2018. The 54 number includes them.
16x 764
14x 763 Polaris low-J (incl. 1 in conversion)
20x 763 old config
4x 763 Polaris high-J (incl. 2 in conversion and 2 in storage awaiting conversion)


Cheers for that....I missed seeing 54 767s listed.
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:26 pm

763:
N667UA exited MCO maint 2741/15Jan
N668UA entered MCO maint2736/16Jan
N685UA (ex-N590HA) sked to exit GYR, entered VCV paint 2708/17Jan
N686UA (ex-N592UA sked to exit VCV paint, enter GYR storage 2709/17Jan

772:
N213UA sked to exit HKG maint 2774/18Jan
N768UA exited HKG maint 2771/16Jan
N78013 sked to enter HKG 2761/16Jan, unknown work
 
airzona11
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Are there new seat maps for the Hi-J 763s or the PY 772s?
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:50 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Are there new seat maps for the Hi-J 763s or the PY 772s?


The PE 772s are on the United website... all reconfigured 772s also have Premium Plus.

The High-J 763 is here: https://twitter.com/LAflyr/status/984874494761189376
 
airzona11
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:56 pm

codc10 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Are there new seat maps for the Hi-J 763s or the PY 772s?


The PE 772s are on the United website... all reconfigured 772s also have Premium Plus.

The High-J 763 is here: https://twitter.com/LAflyr/status/984874494761189376


Very cool, thank you.

What routes are tagged for the Hi-J 763s? Have to imagine something like EWR/IAD-LHR/FRA?
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:17 pm

Could the new 77W's mean that UA would keep the 78J's on PS routes permanently?
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:23 pm

airzona11 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Are there new seat maps for the Hi-J 763s or the PY 772s?


The PE 772s are on the United website... all reconfigured 772s also have Premium Plus.

The High-J 763 is here: https://twitter.com/LAflyr/status/984874494761189376


Very cool, thank you.

What routes are tagged for the Hi-J 763s? Have to imagine something like EWR/IAD-LHR/FRA?


None scheduled, as yet. Expect LHR, though.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:07 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
763:
N667UA exited MCO maint 2741/15Jan
N668UA entered MCO maint2736/16Jan
N685UA (ex-N590HA) sked to exit GYR, entered VCV paint 2708/17Jan
N686UA (ex-N592UA sked to exit VCV paint, enter GYR storage 2709/17Jan

772:
N213UA sked to exit HKG maint 2774/18Jan
N768UA exited HKG maint 2771/16Jan
N78013 sked to enter HKG 2761/16Jan, unknown work

Appears both exHA have been reregistered. When Ship 6684 when to HKG a few weeks ago it was still showing as N588HA
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:52 pm

iahcsr wrote:
Appears both exHA have been reregistered. When Ship 6684 when to HKG a few weeks ago it was still showing as N588HA


763 Polaris High Density units N666UA is at 7 weeks in HKG and N684UA is approaching 6 weeks. Anyone have the estimated exit dates? Should be in Jan?

Same for the PMCO77E Polaris bird in HKG for 2 months today. Should be out soon?
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:54 pm

fun2fly wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
Appears both exHA have been reregistered. When Ship 6684 when to HKG a few weeks ago it was still showing as N588HA


763 Polaris High Density units N666UA is at 7 weeks in HKG and N684UA is approaching 6 weeks. Anyone have the estimated exit dates? Should be in Jan?

Same for the PMCO77E Polaris bird in HKG for 2 months today. Should be out soon?


N666UA and N79011 are STC birds, so they'll be in HKG for a while longer. I'd expect at least 10 weeks, if not more, to complete installation, inspections, flight testing, STC approvals and certification. The government shutdown will also affect this progress.

The aircraft in mod over the holidays also tend to take a bit longer.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:35 pm

I see N78013 heading to HKG today. I wonder if that unit gives us a clue on N79011 getting close to being completed. It could just be routine maintenance. NOTE the first sUA 772 took 91 one days for its STC. N79011 has been in HKG 61 days.

Regarding N666UA High J and N660UA going Polaris. Maybe the below is a timing issue that couldn't be avoided.

Since N666UA and the next 13 2 class units will release 85 fairly new Y seats per aircraft as they go High J, I wonder why UA didn't go a different route on High J and ITPE conversions.
Other options would have saved the purchase of up to 900 Y seats.
1.) Convert IPTE to High J, then convert 2 class units to Polaris/non-PE
2.) Hold off on last 3 or 4 ITPE conversions until seats were released from High J conversions,
3.) Run some ITPE and High J conversions at same time to utilize excess Y seats

As it stands, High J aircraft will release 1,190 Y seats. I assume 297 of these will be placed on ex HA units, but 893 new seats will be surplus after conversion since new seats were placed in the former ITPE aircraft.

If HA 763s are getting Y seats from 2 class to High J aircraft, it will take N666UA plus three more units to provide enough seats for all HA units to be supplied with Y seats.

Is N660UA receiving new Y seats now while excess Y seats will begin showing up in HKG after High J mods start?
 
flyguy84
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:25 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Could the new 77W's mean that UA would keep the 78J's on PS routes permanently?

Nope...
SFO
 
flyguy84
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:26 pm

airzona11 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Are there new seat maps for the Hi-J 763s or the PY 772s?


The PE 772s are on the United website... all reconfigured 772s also have Premium Plus.

The High-J 763 is here: https://twitter.com/LAflyr/status/984874494761189376


Very cool, thank you.

What routes are tagged for the Hi-J 763s? Have to imagine something like EWR/IAD-LHR/FRA?

Likely LHR/GVA/ZRH
SFO
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:40 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I see N78013 heading to HKG today. I wonder if that unit gives us a clue on N79011 getting close to being completed. It could just be routine maintenance. NOTE the first sUA 772 took 91 one days for its STC. N79011 has been in HKG 61 days.

Regarding N666UA High J and N660UA going Polaris. Maybe the below is a timing issue that couldn't be avoided.

Since N666UA and the next 13 2 class units will release 85 fairly new Y seats per aircraft as they go High J, I wonder why UA didn't go a different route on High J and ITPE conversions.
Other options would have saved the purchase of up to 900 Y seats.
1.) Convert IPTE to High J, then convert 2 class units to Polaris/non-PE
2.) Hold off on last 3 or 4 ITPE conversions until seats were released from High J conversions,
3.) Run some ITPE and High J conversions at same time to utilize excess Y seats

As it stands, High J aircraft will release 1,190 Y seats. I assume 297 of these will be placed on ex HA units, but 893 new seats will be surplus after conversion since new seats were placed in the former ITPE aircraft.

If HA 763s are getting Y seats from 2 class to High J aircraft, it will take N666UA plus three more units to provide enough seats for all HA units to be supplied with Y seats.

Is N660UA receiving new Y seats now while excess Y seats will begin showing up in HKG after High J mods start?


They can put the Y seats with IFE in them on domestic aircraft to make the experience on par with DL
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

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Max Q
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:55 pm

It lines up pretty well, this young fleet of 77W aircraft will be good for 20 + years when their ideal replacement, the 77-9 can be ordered


In the meantime the slow replacement of the 77E with the A359 starts in 2022
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:27 am

So it was confirmed in the investor call that UA will be retiring some 757s and A320s this year. Does anyone have any indications of how many or which ones?
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:44 am

intotheair wrote:
So it was confirmed in the investor call that UA will be retiring some 757s and A320s this year. Does anyone have any indications of how many or which ones?


3 757-222s (unknown which, but likely 1989-1991 builds) will retire in 2019. A320 retirements (starting with 1993 builds) will likely begin in 2020. Used Airbus orders will be replacement.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:53 am

The 757 retirement is a likely indicator that the 787-10 will be operating transcons long term. One or two 787-10s daily on EWR-SFO/LAX is roughly equivalent to the capacity lost by the 757s.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:46 am

Looks like UA loves the 77W! Ordering 4 more!!!!!!
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:17 pm

UAX Update:

CR2:
N783CA (1999 build) entered UAX service with ExpressJet (Globe)
N856AS (2000 build) entered UAX service with ExpressJet (Globe)
N857AS (2000 build) entered UAX service with ExpressJet (Globe)
This brings Fleet to 17

ER4:
N11565 has exited the fleet (stored IGM)
N13566 has exited the fleet (stored IGM)
ExpressJet ER4 Fleet now sits at 69 frames
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:20 pm

Tonight January 17th, and tomorrow January 18th both UA926 and UA927 SFO-FRA-SFO will operate on the 78J, tail number N17002.
Aircraft substitution is do to several 787s out of service for maintenance related issues.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:28 pm

jayunited wrote:
But if you were able to get your monies worth out of the frame because you were able to work out a great deal with Boeing is it really still a short term strategy? UA probably was able to negotiate a better deal with Boeing for more 77Ws than Airbus for the A35J especially seeing UA has deferred those aircraft till 2022 and the 77W is nearing the end of the line.

The reason I say it's a short-term strategy is because the initial gains of a lower purchase price are being offset in the long-run by higher operating costs and a shorter life span and/or lower residual value at the time of disposal. If we draw this cycle out to 30+ years, I'd put my money down on spending more to buy the latest models. But we're in a short-term profit world, and that has to affect decisions.
 
CapitalAvGeek
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:07 am

codc10 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
So it was confirmed in the investor call that UA will be retiring some 757s and A320s this year. Does anyone have any indications of how many or which ones?


3 757-222s (unknown which, but likely 1989-1991 builds) will retire in 2019. A320 retirements (starting with 1993 builds) will likely begin in 2020. Used Airbus orders will be replacement.

The 3 757's that will be retired are likely to be N505UA (29.2 years), N512UA (28.5 years) and N546UA (27.1 years). These 3 birds have not received ADS-b yet, based on Flightradar24 data, for the January 1, 2020 FAA deadline. If these planes will be retired before 2020 there would be no need to modify the aircraft All other 757's are equipped with ADS-b or are in maintenance, so they will likely receive the proper modifications.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:05 am

39M
N27511 After sitting 18 days, delivery has occurred. BFISEA 17Jan. Progress.. Now, will N37510 have to wait for 7511 to complete induction or will it deliver sooner ?
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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antoniemey
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:31 am

iahcsr wrote:
39M
N27511 After sitting 18 days, delivery has occurred. BFISEA 17Jan. Progress.. Now, will N37510 have to wait for 7511 to complete induction or will it deliver sooner ?


What's the reason for these two numbers to be delivered out of order?
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:19 pm

antoniemey wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
39M
N27511 After sitting 18 days, delivery has occurred. BFISEA 17Jan. Progress.. Now, will N37510 have to wait for 7511 to complete induction or will it deliver sooner ?


What's the reason for these two numbers to be delivered out of order?


I'm not sure I'm correct, but I believe N37510 had some production issues post-rollout and it had to be fixed, so it didn't have its B1 until N27511's B1 was completed.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:06 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
antoniemey wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
39M
N27511 After sitting 18 days, delivery has occurred. BFISEA 17Jan. Progress.. Now, will N37510 have to wait for 7511 to complete induction or will it deliver sooner ?


What's the reason for these two numbers to be delivered out of order?


I'm not sure I'm correct, but I believe N37510 had some production issues post-rollout and it had to be fixed, so it didn't have its B1 until N27511's B1 was completed.

You are correct in so much as 7510 definitely had issue(s) of some sort... In fact it’s B1 happened after 7511 was delivery ready... and they’re 22 frames apart. 7512 should be getting near it’s B1 now as well. Meanwhile in CHS, 78J N12004 is probably ready for B1... provided FAA willing. LN548 (reg# TBD..my guess 12005?) has got to be nearing re-work completion by now... probably also waiting on FAA.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:27 am

763:
N668UA entered MCO 2736/16Jan, exited 2745/16Jan
N671UA entered MCO 2744/16Jan

772:
N214UA entered HKG maint 2788/18Jan
N227UA entered AMA paint 2740 17Jan
N76010 exited AMA paint 2754/18Jan
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:39 pm

The fleet changes and fleet status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:55 pm

United1 wrote:
A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:

2019 deliveries:
2 777-300ER
8 787-10 (I don't think any more 787-9s come online until 2020)
3 767-300ER (exHA)
21 737-MAX9
5 320/319s (have no idea on the mix)


2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER
3 757-200
?? 320/319

Regarding the Boeing fleet I'm fairly certain those numbers are correct but the Airbus fleet has me baffled. We know they are taking 4 exVueling 320s, at least 7 exCZ319s, possibly 4 319s from a leasing company and 20 exU2 319s starting in 2020. All of them are not necessarily coming online this year but that's a huge of aircraft sitting around waiting for delivery....especially as they are only growing by 5 this year. Are they going to take more than 5 this year and replace some of the older Airbus fleet?


Strictly scuttlebutt, but the rumor is the Airbus Fleet will be slowly replaced by Boeings, as the Boeings, on average, are a younger fleet. The acquisitions coming in are to retire some of the older Airbuses in the fleet during this time, early 90s builds..
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iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:22 pm

78J
N12005 This registration has gone to LN800. So LN548 is still in limbo.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1697
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:22 am

CALTECH wrote:
United1 wrote:
A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:

2019 deliveries:
2 777-300ER
8 787-10 (I don't think any more 787-9s come online until 2020)
3 767-300ER (exHA)
21 737-MAX9
5 320/319s (have no idea on the mix)


2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER
3 757-200
?? 320/319

Regarding the Boeing fleet I'm fairly certain those numbers are correct but the Airbus fleet has me baffled. We know they are taking 4 exVueling 320s, at least 7 exCZ319s, possibly 4 319s from a leasing company and 20 exU2 319s starting in 2020. All of them are not necessarily coming online this year but that's a huge of aircraft sitting around waiting for delivery....especially as they are only growing by 5 this year. Are they going to take more than 5 this year and replace some of the older Airbus fleet?


Strictly scuttlebutt, but the rumor is the Airbus Fleet will be slowly replaced by Boeings, as the Boeings, on average, are a younger fleet. The acquisitions coming in are to retire some of the older Airbuses in the fleet during this time, early 90s builds..


Isn’t that more or less what we already know? Boatloads of 737s have been coming in while UA keeps looking for more used Airbuses as some of them will start to retire.
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CALTECH
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:20 am

intotheair wrote:
Strictly scuttlebutt, but the rumor is the Airbus Fleet will be slowly replaced by Boeings, as the Boeings, on average, are a younger fleet. The acquisitions coming in are to retire some of the older Airbuses in the fleet during this time, early 90s builds..


Isn’t that more or less what we already know? Boatloads of 737s have been coming in while UA keeps looking for more used Airbuses as some of them will start to retire.[/quote]

If you have all the answers, fantastic. I guess no one needs to post anything anymore on this thread since you already know everything.
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Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
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intotheair
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:17 am

CALTECH wrote:
If you have all the answers, fantastic. I guess no one needs to post anything anymore on this thread since you already know everything.


I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm simply asking how that's a rumor when other posts in this thread seem to indicate that it's already happening.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
United1
Posts: 3806
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:18 pm

CALTECH wrote:
United1 wrote:
A few fleet questions and some assumptions I hope that someone can confirm:

2019 deliveries:
2 777-300ER
8 787-10 (I don't think any more 787-9s come online until 2020)
3 767-300ER (exHA)
21 737-MAX9
5 320/319s (have no idea on the mix)


2019 retirements:
3 767-300ER
3 757-200
?? 320/319

Regarding the Boeing fleet I'm fairly certain those numbers are correct but the Airbus fleet has me baffled. We know they are taking 4 exVueling 320s, at least 7 exCZ319s, possibly 4 319s from a leasing company and 20 exU2 319s starting in 2020. All of them are not necessarily coming online this year but that's a huge of aircraft sitting around waiting for delivery....especially as they are only growing by 5 this year. Are they going to take more than 5 this year and replace some of the older Airbus fleet?


Strictly scuttlebutt, but the rumor is the Airbus Fleet will be slowly replaced by Boeings, as the Boeings, on average, are a younger fleet. The acquisitions coming in are to retire some of the older Airbuses in the fleet during this time, early 90s builds..


That would make sense as I'm sure both the NG737s and Airbus fleet will eventual be replaced by MAXes.

Guess what I'm curious about is how many Airbii will be coming onboard this year. The fleet plan shows the Airbus fleet growing by 5 this year but it seems like there are more aircraft in the pipeline than that.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:57 pm

Apologies, a bunch of thoughts and questions below:
Last night on UA956 (EWR/GVA) I was sitting next to my BFF in Polaris (old Diamond seats) 763. While he OFTEN teases me over my airplane obsession- I told him I think that we should by stock in UA, but I’m really no expert in trading stock.
However in telling him (without much of the details) that UA just bought another 4 777-300’s, 9 789s and 14 new 787-10s, and a small handful of additional used 763s, all of which will be very Premium focused with small Economy sections, mostly all E+. Basically leaving behind many of those willing to fly WOW or Norwegian.
My BFF hadn’t a clue how much investment that is, and has yet to even fly in a 787.
Aside from the High J 763 sub fleet, (actually, I said, all of the fleet will pretty will be pretty much heavily laid out with premium seating) But with about 30 incremental WBs coming, in my mind means that within roughly 2 years United will have “added” many ten of thousands of higher priced seats to the skies every year over today. Logically, they would not have obtained these additional WB aircraft unless they knew with a high amount of certainty that they would fill them.
(Yes I realize they will also remove some ac/seats) yet, in my mind, (and I could sure be wrong) it still shows a lot of confidence on UAs part that the growth of premium seating in WB, international flying will grow a lot over a relatively short amount of time. (Not to leave out 152 737MAXs, just focusing on WBs)
That said, DO all these new WB orders represent significant growth? UA will add these NEW ac to a preexisting, newly refurbished enormous fleet of 772s, 77Ws, 787-8/9s and 763/4s, all within 2+ years or so. OR, am I making too much of out of these orders, and in truth it’s not as much growth as I perceive it to be?
My BFF is also my business partner, although I usually do most of the flying for our company. So he experiences a United flight with many months in between. He is also a “Branded Interior” designer by trade, and having now experienced Polaris Lounges, a couple rides on the 77W in the new seat, new gates at EWR, he can feel the process of BIG change in a very different way than me. His opinion of the Polaris Lounge design is very positive. (For me it feels like watching a pot of water boil- slow) He sees bigger changes every 5-7 months of flying.
He asked me what I thought was United’s new internal brand strategy is, and how that is being executed? That’s our business.
Naturally I don’t know what the internal folks have approved exactly and sharing; but they sharing a vision, a crisp understandable brand strategy to the senior leadership “gets it” and what what United is aiming for, the Big Idea that is intended to impact everything they do, now THEY must go and make it happen, holistically!
But my “guess” is more of a business goal vs brand essence goal.
IMHO, That they are ramping up to become a solid 4 Gold Star Airline (not as lofty as 5 Stars) and ultimately become the #1 choice for high paying business travelers in key markets, who will choose United happily because United is “the right choice” for the sky warriors. People who value comfort and convenience, sleep and work, with new and stylish enough environments, new attentive staff that are up to the standards these folks have become used to as they go from plane, to hotel, to meetings and back and with a Status & Mileage program that pays back for their loyalty.
It can’t happen soon enough: to leave a Polaris Lounge and into an old seat, over stuffed with Polaris blankets and pillows is a huge disconnect vs boarding a 77W.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:19 pm

VC10er wrote:
Apologies, a bunch of thoughts and questions below:
Last night on UA956 (EWR/GVA) I was sitting next to my BFF in Polaris (old Diamond seats) 763. While he OFTEN teases me over my airplane obsession- I told him I think that we should by stock in UA, but I’m really no expert in trading stock.
However in telling him (without much of the details) that UA just bought another 4 777-300’s, 9 789s and 14 new 787-10s, and a small handful of additional used 763s, all of which will be very Premium focused with small Economy sections, mostly all E+...


IIRC, the last 9 787-9s that UA ordered are intended as 767 replacements. Combined with the 3 ex-HA 763s, that accounts for about 1/3 of the 763 fleet. Time will tell on replacements for the others and the 764s.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
airportlover
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:23 pm

VC10er wrote:
Apologies, a bunch of thoughts and questions below:
Last night on UA956 (EWR/GVA) I was sitting next to my BFF in Polaris (old Diamond seats) 763. While he OFTEN teases me over my airplane obsession- I told him I think that we should by stock in UA, but I’m really no expert in trading stock.
However in telling him (without much of the details) that UA just bought another 4 777-300’s, 9 789s and 14 new 787-10s, and a small handful of additional used 763s, all of which will be very Premium focused with small Economy sections, mostly all E+. Basically leaving behind many of those willing to fly WOW or Norwegian.
My BFF hadn’t a clue how much investment that is, and has yet to even fly in a 787.
Aside from the High J 763 sub fleet, (actually, I said, all of the fleet will pretty will be pretty much heavily laid out with premium seating) But with about 30 incremental WBs coming, in my mind means that within roughly 2 years United will have “added” many ten of thousands of higher priced seats to the skies every year over today. Logically, they would not have obtained these additional WB aircraft unless they knew with a high amount of certainty that they would fill them.
(Yes I realize they will also remove some ac/seats) yet, in my mind, (and I could sure be wrong) it still shows a lot of confidence on UAs part that the growth of premium seating in WB, international flying will grow a lot over a relatively short amount of time. (Not to leave out 152 737MAXs, just focusing on WBs)
That said, DO all these new WB orders represent significant growth? UA will add these NEW ac to a preexisting, newly refurbished enormous fleet of 772s, 77Ws, 787-8/9s and 763/4s, all within 2+ years or so. OR, am I making too much of out of these orders, and in truth it’s not as much growth as I perceive it to be?
My BFF is also my business partner, although I usually do most of the flying for our company. So he experiences a United flight with many months in between. He is also a “Branded Interior” designer by trade, and having now experienced Polaris Lounges, a couple rides on the 77W in the new seat, new gates at EWR, he can feel the process of BIG change in a very different way than me. His opinion of the Polaris Lounge design is very positive. (For me it feels like watching a pot of water boil- slow) He sees bigger changes every 5-7 months of flying.
He asked me what I thought was United’s new internal brand strategy is, and how that is being executed? That’s our business.
Naturally I don’t know what the internal folks have approved exactly and sharing; but they sharing a vision, a crisp understandable brand strategy to the senior leadership “gets it” and what what United is aiming for, the Big Idea that is intended to impact everything they do, now THEY must go and make it happen, holistically!
But my “guess” is more of a business goal vs brand essence goal.
IMHO, That they are ramping up to become a solid 4 Gold Star Airline (not as lofty as 5 Stars) and ultimately become the #1 choice for high paying business travelers in key markets, who will choose United happily because United is “the right choice” for the sky warriors. People who value comfort and convenience, sleep and work, with new and stylish enough environments, new attentive staff that are up to the standards these folks have become used to as they go from plane, to hotel, to meetings and back and with a Status & Mileage program that pays back for their loyalty.
It can’t happen soon enough: to leave a Polaris Lounge and into an old seat, over stuffed with Polaris blankets and pillows is a huge disconnect vs boarding a 77W.


I think that you are correct in saying that United’s future is in being the best airline it can be for business travelers. Having hubs almost solely in the top US business markets as opposed to the different hub structure of American and Delta necessitates this. They need to focus on providing a strong route network and product while leveraging their partnerships in Star Alliance. With some improvements and minor changes, United can very well establish itself as the premier carrier for business travelers. Their international network is quite impressive, and it creates a different dynamic for the airline versus Delta and American. Overall, United needs a different strategy for the future compared to the two other legacies, and all of us/United management/airline analysts need to be ok with that.
 
sohanb82
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:22 pm

How many 789s of the additional 13 ordered will come online in 2020? Any guesses to where these aircraft will be based? EWR as some are replacement for 763?
 
VC10er
Posts: 3995
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:26 pm

Oh! I did not realize that the 789 order were planned replacements for 767s!
I was under the impression that all the new orders, and the 78-10 were incremental fleet growth- and that seemed like a lot of seats added to the sky in relatively short time. (At least to me, but I consider myself far less aviation savvy than others)
I will say this about my flight to Geneva Saturday night, 6pm departure: the Polaris Lounge was PACKED! My friend and I could not find 2 soft seats together- so we had to sit at a cocktail table.
So, since my first time there, soon after opening and thinking how huge it was, yet very restricted, today it is now full...with a few folks even waiting for one of the very swanky bathroom lights to go from red to green!
What will happen when every single WB departing having been fitted with 48-60 Polaris seats, plus additional summer flights?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:32 am

39M:
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763:
N671UA exited MCO 2764/20Jan
 
airzona11
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:44 am

airportlover wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Apologies, a bunch of thoughts and questions below:
Last night on UA956 (EWR/GVA) I was sitting next to my BFF in Polaris (old Diamond seats) 763. While he OFTEN teases me over my airplane obsession- I told him I think that we should by stock in UA, but I’m really no expert in trading stock.
However in telling him (without much of the details) that UA just bought another 4 777-300’s, 9 789s and 14 new 787-10s, and a small handful of additional used 763s, all of which will be very Premium focused with small Economy sections, mostly all E+. Basically leaving behind many of those willing to fly WOW or Norwegian.
My BFF hadn’t a clue how much investment that is, and has yet to even fly in a 787.
Aside from the High J 763 sub fleet, (actually, I said, all of the fleet will pretty will be pretty much heavily laid out with premium seating) But with about 30 incremental WBs coming, in my mind means that within roughly 2 years United will have “added” many ten of thousands of higher priced seats to the skies every year over today. Logically, they would not have obtained these additional WB aircraft unless they knew with a high amount of certainty that they would fill them.
(Yes I realize they will also remove some ac/seats) yet, in my mind, (and I could sure be wrong) it still shows a lot of confidence on UAs part that the growth of premium seating in WB, international flying will grow a lot over a relatively short amount of time. (Not to leave out 152 737MAXs, just focusing on WBs)
That said, DO all these new WB orders represent significant growth? UA will add these NEW ac to a preexisting, newly refurbished enormous fleet of 772s, 77Ws, 787-8/9s and 763/4s, all within 2+ years or so. OR, am I making too much of out of these orders, and in truth it’s not as much growth as I perceive it to be?
My BFF is also my business partner, although I usually do most of the flying for our company. So he experiences a United flight with many months in between. He is also a “Branded Interior” designer by trade, and having now experienced Polaris Lounges, a couple rides on the 77W in the new seat, new gates at EWR, he can feel the process of BIG change in a very different way than me. His opinion of the Polaris Lounge design is very positive. (For me it feels like watching a pot of water boil- slow) He sees bigger changes every 5-7 months of flying.
He asked me what I thought was United’s new internal brand strategy is, and how that is being executed? That’s our business.
Naturally I don’t know what the internal folks have approved exactly and sharing; but they sharing a vision, a crisp understandable brand strategy to the senior leadership “gets it” and what what United is aiming for, the Big Idea that is intended to impact everything they do, now THEY must go and make it happen, holistically!
But my “guess” is more of a business goal vs brand essence goal.
IMHO, That they are ramping up to become a solid 4 Gold Star Airline (not as lofty as 5 Stars) and ultimately become the #1 choice for high paying business travelers in key markets, who will choose United happily because United is “the right choice” for the sky warriors. People who value comfort and convenience, sleep and work, with new and stylish enough environments, new attentive staff that are up to the standards these folks have become used to as they go from plane, to hotel, to meetings and back and with a Status & Mileage program that pays back for their loyalty.
It can’t happen soon enough: to leave a Polaris Lounge and into an old seat, over stuffed with Polaris blankets and pillows is a huge disconnect vs boarding a 77W.


I think that you are correct in saying that United’s future is in being the best airline it can be for business travelers. Having hubs almost solely in the top US business markets as opposed to the different hub structure of American and Delta necessitates this. They need to focus on providing a strong route network and product while leveraging their partnerships in Star Alliance. With some improvements and minor changes, United can very well establish itself as the premier carrier for business travelers. Their international network is quite impressive, and it creates a different dynamic for the airline versus Delta and American. Overall, United needs a different strategy for the future compared to the two other legacies, and all of us/United management/airline analysts need to be ok with that.


This is a great call out. At the end of the day, the non-stop will win out. UA has a great advantage with EWR/SFO/ORD/LAX/IAD/IAH, that is a lot of business traffic. They have the highest % / most # of premium seats of the US3. Not that it is good or bad, but business travelers are a natural advantage UA has. Not saying DL doesn't claim NYC or AA ORD etc. But for the above points, it is exciting to see turn their focus to this space. I think of it a lot like BA. They don't have the best premium class, but they offer the most seats, a competitive product, non stop destinations to all the key routes. LHR is their natural advantage. Nonstop is always going to win out.
 
crescent
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:48 am

I think UAL stock is a short right now. They have had good results but the overall PRASM environment is deteriorating near-term due to slowing economies in Europe and China (obviously) and maybe the U.S. I think UAL has had good contribution from the Gemini revenue mgmt system and been lucky in Asia but neither will last. It would be supernatural performance to keep having 5-7% seat-mile growth and to maintain 4% PRASM growth at the same time.
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