Exciting to see all the 787 deliveries. I wanted to note that 12 new 789s would take UA from aircraft #3975 through #3986. My records show a 13th unit, with reserved N number N28987 Any news on that one?

Isnt CPT just operating for three months?

adamblang wrote:

UAinAUS wrote:

12x 789 for delivery 2020

I love all the 789s, because all exciting new routes start on a 789.

I couldn’t agree more! The 789 is a fantastic aircraft. I am sure we will see more with it in the future.

Especially with the development of “counter season” routes like we have recently.

UAinAUS wrote:

Updates to United official Fleet Plan - nothing surprising
2x 77W for delivery Q4-19
2x 77W for delivery 2020
2x 78X for delivery April 19
2x 78X for delivery Q4-19
3x 78X for delivery 2020
12x 789 for delivery 2020
2 more 752 for retirement Q4-19
5x 73M for delivery Q2-19 (or when deliveries begin again)
11x 73M for delivery Q3-19
28x 73M for delivery 2020
Continued delivery of used A319/320 aircraft 2019-2021, with some retirements of oldest units
12-13x E175SC for delivery 2019, with equal number of CR7 transitioning to CR5

They wouldn’t make announcements in the filing either, so I guess no surprises should have been expected.

Are we still seeing delays from the seat manufacturer Zodiac and is Polaris on track?

78X N91007 arrived back into CHS at 1842 local time. Standard paint job?

FlyHossD wrote:

I've been thinking the same about the new livery - a single star placed high on the vertical fin to represent Polaris above the revised globe. We'll know soon enough.

Yup, # 267 "As Oscar mentioned last month, our next livery is coming soon and we’ll reveal it April 24."

A more modern livery...

I'm really interested to see how quickly they will be cycling through the pain shop for the new livery. In spotting at EWR lately there seems that there are a lot of overdue aircraft. N210UA, N36272, N39297, N17104 all have a lot of peeling going on right now.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Exciting to see all the 787 deliveries. I wanted to note that 12 new 789s would take UA from aircraft #3975 through #3986. My records show a 13th unit, with reserved N number N28987 Any news on that one?

Last one ordered. 2021. Likely early in the year. Fleet plan doesn’t go that far yet.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Exciting to see all the 787 deliveries. I wanted to note that 12 new 789s would take UA from aircraft #3975 through #3986. My records show a 13th unit, with reserved N number N28987 Any news on that one?

19 wide bodies is a lot of lift. There will be an good number of additional routes min of 10 or more. It will be fun here to speculate.

The rumored additional 14 78Js were not confirmed but seem likely as 772A frames.

In my personal opinion: United has bet the farm on Polaris (in many ways) not least of which is the sheer size of Polaris cabins (esp the premium 767), and the flawlessly executed magnificent Polaris lounges. (Premium Economy to a degree; there absolutely was a need for something between E+ and Polaris. The price leap was crazy: $1,100 or $11,000) but IMHO, UNITED POLARIS is the new United or at least it's most defining brand difference.

However, IMHO, everyone behind the PE curtain are passengers that UA "seems" to have decided are folks who are there because, 1: There are countless millions of people who fly economy an UA must factor them into the overall business, 2: However, many of them (certainly not all) are on UA because it just so happened that UA was cheaper or more convenient for many of those passengers, or they live someplace with few other choices, corp contracts, they just got off Lufthansa (etc) economy and connecting OR they actually like United...and/or other.
(In that regard, United absolutely MUST do more for those in E+ and Economy, especially on international trips and demonstrate that when the FA says over the PA after landing: "we know you have a choice in airlines and everyone at United hopes you had a pleasant flight, and we look forward to seeing you again on another United flight" that it's not only the folks upfront who feel that way.

Those masses in Economy are the opinion drivers, the most vocal and often younger and more social media savvy. And they are not a vocal "minority" but in fact a "vocal majority". It is very disturbing to read United's Instagram page sometimes. Even if the post by United is a very positive one, with great content, the vile spewing underneath from people bent on putting 80,000 people out of a job is a reflection not just on UA, but (for me at least) the lust for vent hate for some people is astounding. The premium, high status United flyers do not do much more than leave a positive review when the post flight survey arrives. Sometimes I will try hard to counter the hate, but I know in my heart that my love of UA comes from years of being 1k or GS and treated extremely well.

I do think the POLARIS "halo" effect, a strategy or tactic which often doesn't work to burnish a brand in need, is actually is working so far in UNITED's favor (along with the many other improvements) so, I actually do agree that a wink or nod to POLARIS in the livery is a great idea...but NOT one that will be any more salt in the wound of the Economy flier who so far gets nothing of that experience. To walk though POLARIS to the back must s__k, the gaze into a POLARIS LOUNGE reception is makes one feel left out ("well, that will never happen for me!")

However, to having that wink or nod to thosel 46 or more Polaris pax on those special 767's, 77W's, 78X and the growing fleet of 772's (eventually all WBs) with those high paying, often loyal fliers is smart. But so would some more TLC for Economy passengers. A hot towel, a mini amenity kit and great service would go a LONG WAY, to mitigate those vile postings.

I'm sorry, I am sure this has been answered somewhere already, I just simply cannot recall; Are the latest 789's coming fitted with Polaris & PE?

Thanks zillions, apologies for the repeat question!

adamblang wrote:

PHAVR wrote:

Hi,
Can somebody provide an overview of all the 772s with the new Polaris business class? About to book a business class trip IAD-NRT and NRT-IAD and normally book ANA because I don't like United business (the old 2-4-2) but would like to try new Polaris business class if there is a high probability that I get a 772 with the new lay-out.
Thanks a lot!
PH-AVR

Knowing when you're traveling would go a long way to answering your question. It looks like the old IPTE cabin aircraft have been assigned to the route lately, though.

Thanks Adam,
Travel agent mentioned 2x4x2 layout for UA803/804 (May25/June3) so that must be the old layout and think I will switch to ANA which is same price. Flown ANA many times and was looking forward to see how that new UA Polaris would compare....
cheers
PHAVR

VC10er wrote:

I'm sorry, I am sure this has been answered somewhere already, I just simply cannot recall; Are the latest 789's coming fitted with Polaris & PE?

Yes.

PHAVR wrote:

adamblang wrote:

PHAVR wrote:

Hi,
Can somebody provide an overview of all the 772s with the new Polaris business class? About to book a business class trip IAD-NRT and NRT-IAD and normally book ANA because I don't like United business (the old 2-4-2) but would like to try new Polaris business class if there is a high probability that I get a 772 with the new lay-out.
Thanks a lot!
PH-AVR

Knowing when you're traveling would go a long way to answering your question. It looks like the old IPTE cabin aircraft have been assigned to the route lately, though.

Thanks Adam,
Travel agent mentioned 2x4x2 layout for UA803/804 (May25/June3) so that must be the old layout and think I will switch to ANA which is same price. Flown ANA many times and was looking forward to see how that new UA Polaris would compare....
cheers
PHAVR

If you are flying May 25, you have about a 2/3 chance of flying on the new layout, but that's still a big risk for a long flight, especially since you have to do it both directions. By this Fall though, I think you could probably book with confidence.

codc10 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

I'm sorry, I am sure this has been answered somewhere already, I just simply cannot recall; Are the latest 789's coming fitted with Polaris & PE?

Yes.

From what I understand, all 789’s are not Polaris as of yet. I read that they should start mods in the fall once the summer flying winds down. New delivery 789’s, which begin again next year, will come with Polaris already installed.

aviator96 wrote:

codc10 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

I'm sorry, I am sure this has been answered somewhere already, I just simply cannot recall; Are the latest 789's coming fitted with Polaris & PE?

Yes.

From what I understand, all 789’s are not Polaris as of yet. I read that they should start mods in the fall once the summer flying winds down. New delivery 789’s, which begin again next year, will come with Polaris already installed.

The question was whether the "latest 789s are coming fitted with Polaris", meaning the new deliveries. Those will have the same cabin product as the 787-10.

The in-service 789s will start Polaris/PP mods this summer, to be completed by the end of 2020.

cosyr wrote:

PHAVR wrote:

Thanks Adam,
Travel agent mentioned 2x4x2 layout for UA803/804 (May25/June3) so that must be the old layout and think I will switch to ANA which is same price. Flown ANA many times and was looking forward to see how that new UA Polaris would compare....
cheers
PHAVR

If you are flying May 25, you have about a 2/3 chance of flying on the new layout, but that's still a big risk for a long flight, especially since you have to do it both directions. By this Fall though, I think you could probably book with confidence.

Chance of retrofitted 772 will still be less than 2/3 in May because at least 10-12 retrofitted 772 are being dedicated to routes selling Premium Plus (e.g., SFO-PEK/AKL/FRA, EWR/SFO/IAD-CDG, etc). I would estimate it would be around 50% chance or less for IAD-NRT in May.

codc10 wrote:

aviator96 wrote:

codc10 wrote:

Yes.

From what I understand, all 789’s are not Polaris as of yet. I read that they should start mods in the fall once the summer flying winds down. New delivery 789’s, which begin again next year, will come with Polaris already installed.

The question was whether the "latest 789s are coming fitted with Polaris", meaning the new deliveries. Those will have the same cabin product as the 787-10.

The in-service 789s will start Polaris/PP mods this summer, to be completed by the end of 2020.

Copy that. Thanks for the clarification

752:
N505UA now not shown operating 2710/18Apr GYR-MIA?

763:
N646UA entered MCO 2755/17Apr

772:
N78001 896/18Apr still showing sCO seating configuration
N57016 entered HKG 8965/16Apr, presume Polaris/PE.

78X:
N16009 first flight B1 today at CHS.

Earning Live event wrapped up a few minutes ago and some very interesting topics came up during the Q&A session with employees.
Here are just a few of the high lights that really caught my attention.
1. JFK, Although Kirby wants to get UA back into JFK he admits there are no viable slots available that would be beneficial to UA customers at this point in time.
2. Growth v.s. Merger, At this point in time UA would rather grow organically than be involved in another merger. Reason being moving forward both Oscar and Kirby believe the governments appetite towards airline mergers has soured. And any future merger that involved either AA, DL, or UA and some other domestic carrier the government would require them to divest the very assets (gates, slots, ect) that would make a merger appealing. They both agreed never say never but in the same sentence they each stated there are no mergers in UA's future in the near term. Oscar also stated something to the fact that he believes mergers are bad for morale and would undo all the hard work UA has done to put the sCO/sUA merger behind us.
3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN.
4.Mid-continent hubs, UA continues to focus on beefing up ORD, IAH and DEN. Personally I got the feeling that instead of having what DL has at ATL, Both Oscar and Kirby UA envisions in a few years the 3 mid-continent hubs each having 700+ daily departures during the summer and at least 550 or more departures at other times of the year.
5. Premium customers, Continue to focus on premium customers and attracting more premium and corporate clientele at EWR and SFO. Interestingly enough UA is now attracting or seeing a high level of premium traffic at IAD than we have in the past. The stronger premium demand will result in high J 767's being deployed on certain routes from IAD.
6. Customer perception, all UA employees every day have to commit to changing the customers perception of our airline. Everything we do and every interaction we have with the public will either have a positive impact or it will reinforces the negative perception they already have. United doesn't want to be the airline people have to fly United wants to be the airline people choose to fly and that is a a big big difference.

jayunited wrote:

Earning Live event wrapped up a few minutes ago and some very interesting topics came up during the Q&A session with employees.
Here are just a few of the high lights that really caught my attention...

JayUnited - thanks for the summary.

blacksoviet wrote:

Does United Airlines regret retiring the 737-500?

No I don't think so, Had the -500 had great range? It wouldn't have been retired in favor of the A319 which has full transcon range.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

752:
772:
N78001 896/18Apr still showing sCO seating configuration

Seat map now showing Polaris/PE.

Add another completion to the 772 list.

strfyr51 wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Does United Airlines regret retiring the 737-500?

No I don't think so, Had the -500 had great range? It wouldn't have been retired in favor of the A319 which has full transcon range.

Maybe... if history could be rewritten. Pre-merger United's 737 fleet pulldown significantly reduced United's capacity in the domestic market, and with the Continental merger, the resultant company continued a downward spiral in domestic capacity while that sector significantly outperformed the international in growth during the recovery. The decision to take capacity out of the domestic market both pre- and post-merger limited United's participation in the benefits of the market upswing until only recently.

Still, with the highest narrowbody CASM and old engine tech, the 737-500 would have had no place in the fleet post-2015 or so. UA would not have been able to keep the 735 on its certificate following the service entry of the MAX if it intended to keep 737 pilots common-rated on the entire fleet.

The 737-500 had 5-6 hour endurance, but it was SLOW, so they were only on "true" transcons in rare cases. I can remember one flight in particular on EWR-ABQ in early 2008 or so that pushed 6h against some nasty headwinds, and that was a pretty unpleasant flight.

CO had a small subfleet of 737-300s fitted with aux tanks and overhead IFE; those flew most of the longer 737 missions prior to the arrival of the 737NGs in the late 90s. At United, the 737-500s flew mostly shorthaul/Shuttle routes.

N505UA 757-222 being brought out of Retirement tomorrow. Ferry from GYR to MIA for some checks. Then back in Service.

This is due to the 737 MAX Groundings.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

752:
N505UA now not shown operating 2710/18Apr GYR-MIA?

763:
N646UA entered MCO 2755/17Apr

772:
N78001 896/18Apr still showing sCO seating configuration
N57016 entered HKG 8965/16Apr, presume Polaris/PE.

78X:
N16009 first flight B1 today at CHS.

N78001 Check UA86 on 19Apr. Shows Polaris seating upgrade

jayunited wrote:

Earning Live event wrapped up a few minutes ago and some very interesting topics came up during the Q&A session with employees.
Here are just a few of the high lights that really caught my attention.
1. JFK, Although Kirby wants to get UA back into JFK he admits there are no viable slots available that would be beneficial to UA customers at this point in time.
2. Growth v.s. Merger, At this point in time UA would rather grow organically than be involved in another merger. Reason being moving forward both Oscar and Kirby believe the governments appetite towards airline mergers has soured. And any future merger that involved either AA, DL, or UA and some other domestic carrier the government would require them to divest the very assets (gates, slots, ect) that would make a merger appealing. They both agreed never say never but in the same sentence they each stated there are no mergers in UA's future in the near term. Oscar also stated something to the fact that he believes mergers are bad for morale and would undo all the hard work UA has done to put the sCO/sUA merger behind us.
3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN.
4.Mid-continent hubs, UA continues to focus on beefing up ORD, IAH and DEN. Personally I got the feeling that instead of having what DL has at ATL, Both Oscar and Kirby UA envisions in a few years the 3 mid-continent hubs each having 700+ daily departures during the summer and at least 550 or more departures at other times of the year.
5. Premium customers, Continue to focus on premium customers and attracting more premium and corporate clientele at EWR and SFO. Interestingly enough UA is now attracting or seeing a high level of premium traffic at IAD than we have in the past. The stronger premium demand will result in high J 767's being deployed on certain routes from IAD.
6. Customer perception, all UA employees every day have to commit to changing the customers perception of our airline. Everything we do and every interaction we have with the public will either have a positive impact or it will reinforces the negative perception they already have. United doesn't want to be the airline people have to fly United wants to be the airline people choose to fly and that is a a big big difference.

Thanks JayUnited!

The very last bit really caught my attention because when I was at Landor in the early 1990’s someone named Stewao Owen and others had created very innovative research to rank brands. At first it was very clear something was very wrong. They we attempting to rank un-aided brand recall from 1 to 500. But very old dead brands were scoring too high. RETHINK! They changed to a few measures: relevant, different, knowledge and esteem. Everything changed.
Rolls Royce scores were extremely high on different, knowledge and esteem- but LOW on relevant because not many people can afford one.
New and hot brands had awesome difference & relevant but low knowledge: low esteem (it wasn’t known well enough. However they had the highest potential for growth
TWA: bombed on everything, except knowledge, a tad relevant
The message was from many thousands of respondents was: “TWA, we know you well, we don’t like you at all and you’re relevant because sometimes I have to fly you

It changed EVERYTHING in advertising which functioned on AWARENESS DRIVES BUSINESS, lots of TV, billboards and magazine ads. But consumers were saying: “Stop!” Because you cannot change my mind.

United: if they wish to become the airline people choose to fly, they need to do FAR more in Economy, be ASTOUNDING enough for people to talk about and let social media and word of mouth machine do a lot of very hard work delivering the message- because right now, United is too big and well known for a consumer to permit them to speak!

FA’s and others being wonderful and providing great service is a big part, and often are good, however investing in E fliers in another!

VC10er wrote:

jayunited wrote:

Earning Live event wrapped up a few minutes ago and some very interesting topics came up during the Q&A session with employees.
Here are just a few of the high lights that really caught my attention.
1. JFK, Although Kirby wants to get UA back into JFK he admits there are no viable slots available that would be beneficial to UA customers at this point in time.
2. Growth v.s. Merger, At this point in time UA would rather grow organically than be involved in another merger. Reason being moving forward both Oscar and Kirby believe the governments appetite towards airline mergers has soured. And any future merger that involved either AA, DL, or UA and some other domestic carrier the government would require them to divest the very assets (gates, slots, ect) that would make a merger appealing. They both agreed never say never but in the same sentence they each stated there are no mergers in UA's future in the near term. Oscar also stated something to the fact that he believes mergers are bad for morale and would undo all the hard work UA has done to put the sCO/sUA merger behind us.
3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN.
4.Mid-continent hubs, UA continues to focus on beefing up ORD, IAH and DEN. Personally I got the feeling that instead of having what DL has at ATL, Both Oscar and Kirby UA envisions in a few years the 3 mid-continent hubs each having 700+ daily departures during the summer and at least 550 or more departures at other times of the year.
5. Premium customers, Continue to focus on premium customers and attracting more premium and corporate clientele at EWR and SFO. Interestingly enough UA is now attracting or seeing a high level of premium traffic at IAD than we have in the past. The stronger premium demand will result in high J 767's being deployed on certain routes from IAD.
6. Customer perception, all UA employees every day have to commit to changing the customers perception of our airline. Everything we do and every interaction we have with the public will either have a positive impact or it will reinforces the negative perception they already have. United doesn't want to be the airline people have to fly United wants to be the airline people choose to fly and that is a a big big difference.

Thanks JayUnited!

The very last bit really caught my attention because when I was at Landor in the early 1990’s someone named Stewao Owen and others had created very innovative research to rank brands. At first it was very clear something was very wrong. They we attempting to rank un-aided brand recall from 1 to 500. But very old dead brands were scoring too high. RETHINK! They changed to a few measures: relevant, different, knowledge and esteem. Everything changed.
Rolls Royce scores were extremely high on different, knowledge and esteem- but LOW on relevant because not many people can afford one.
New and hot brands had awesome difference & relevant but low knowledge: low esteem (it wasn’t known well enough. However they had the highest potential for growth
TWA: bombed on everything, except knowledge, a tad relevant
The message was from many thousands of respondents was: “TWA, we know you well, we don’t like you at all and you’re relevant because sometimes I have to fly you

It changed EVERYTHING in advertising which functioned on AWARENESS DRIVES BUSINESS, lots of TV, billboards and magazine ads. But consumers were saying: “Stop!” Because you cannot change my mind.

United: if they wish to become the airline people choose to fly, they need to do FAR more in Economy, be ASTOUNDING enough for people to talk about and let social media and word of mouth machine do a lot of very hard work delivering the message- because right now, United is too big and well known for a consumer to permit them to speak!

FA’s and others being wonderful and providing great service is a big part, and often are good, however investing in E fliers in another!

It's funny that you say that about TWA, because at the end, I had the opposite opinion. I thought they were above many, one of the last airlines to serve meals in coach, domestic award redemptions at 15k miles, not 25k, and style. I think the image problems they had at the very end were dictated by TWA 800, and the fact that there were 7 major airlines in the 90's to choose from, not 3 like today. I agree that United needs to maintain Economy and improve it's image for long term reasons, but airlines are almost universally despised in Y nowadays. Back in the 90's, some people still thought flying was fun.

Moving all of my travel back to United after a really bad experience with AA. I just noticed that UA is getting some A350s in a few years. Definitely excited about that.

788: 
N13013 entered AMA paint 2761/18Apr, probable first widebody with new livery.

atbPy wrote:

Moving all of my travel back to United after a really bad experience with AA. I just noticed that UA is getting some A350s in a few years. Definitely excited about that.

They have some on order, it’s still a debate on if they’ll actually take deliveries.

Scarebus34 wrote:

atbPy wrote:

Moving all of my travel back to United after a really bad experience with AA. I just noticed that UA is getting some A350s in a few years. Definitely excited about that.

They have some on order, it’s still a debate on if they’ll actually take deliveries.

It’s not. Been reiterated by management.

UA now has the Polaris and good aircraft. Route network continues to impress. Just need to work on the people and they will have it. Bad, bad experience EWR to LHR this week with the staff. Has to turn somehow. DL was able to do it but US is taking a lot longer

fun2fly wrote:

Scarebus34 wrote:

atbPy wrote:

Moving all of my travel back to United after a really bad experience with AA. I just noticed that UA is getting some A350s in a few years. Definitely excited about that.

They have some on order, it’s still a debate on if they’ll actually take deliveries.

It’s not. Been reiterated by management.

UA now has the Polaris and good aircraft. Route network continues to impress. Just need to work on the people and they will have it. Bad, bad experience EWR to LHR this week with the staff. Has to turn somehow. DL was able to do it but US is taking a lot longer

Except that it is. Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the 350 deliveries.

Scarebus34 wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

Scarebus34 wrote:

They have some on order, it’s still a debate on if they’ll actually take deliveries.

It’s not. Been reiterated by management.

UA now has the Polaris and good aircraft. Route network continues to impress. Just need to work on the people and they will have it. Bad, bad experience EWR to LHR this week with the staff. Has to turn somehow. DL was able to do it but US is taking a lot longer

Except that it is. Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the 350 deliveries.

As has been discussed many, many times, there is not one shred of evidence supporting a "debate" on the A350s. Not one executive, not Oscar, not Kirby and not Laderman, has ever suggested, hinted or commented that United is reconsidering the A350. If anything, they have done the opposite by saying in investor presentations why they chose the A350-900 and why they increased the order to 45 (as a 777 replacement).

ord wrote:

As has been discussed many, many times, there is not one shred of evidence supporting a "debate" on the A350s. Not one executive, not Oscar, not Kirby and not Laderman, has ever suggested, hinted or commented that United is reconsidering the A350. If anything, they have done the opposite by saying in investor presentations why they chose the A350-900 and why they increased the order to 45 (as a 777 replacement).

Deferring an order is much more than a shred. The original order was also made by a previous regime. You apparently don't want to accept the existence of the evidence.

What management says means little to nothing. Never in a million years will they say they won't take an order before the action of not taking an order. Never in a million years will they state to investors that their fleet plan isn't what they want or need. What matters is what they do, and what they have done brings plenty of doubt into that order.

I am betting UA is waiting for a re-engined A350.

MSPNWA wrote:

ord wrote:

As has been discussed many, many times, there is not one shred of evidence supporting a "debate" on the A350s. Not one executive, not Oscar, not Kirby and not Laderman, has ever suggested, hinted or commented that United is reconsidering the A350. If anything, they have done the opposite by saying in investor presentations why they chose the A350-900 and why they increased the order to 45 (as a 777 replacement).

Deferring an order is much more than a shred. The original order was also made by a previous regime. You apparently don't want to accept the existence of the evidence.

What management says means little to nothing. Never in a million years will they say they won't take an order before the action of not taking an order. Never in a million years will they state to investors that their fleet plan isn't what they want or need. What matters is what they do, and what they have done brings plenty of doubt into that order.

The A350s were deferred because they were originally planned to replace the 747-400s. That plan changed when United needed to get rid of the 747-400 fleet sooner than anticipated and could not wait for the A350s to arrive. So United turned to the 777-300ER as a quick 747-400 replacement. The A350 order was then changed to the A350-900 as a 777-200ER replacement and deferred to 2022 to align with the start of 777-200ER retirements. There was logic and reason to the deferral. Oh, and the order was increased to 45. Under the leadership of Munoz and Kirby no less. I suggest you look at the J.P. Morgan presentation dated 2/27/18. It's all spelled out.

Also check out jayunited's post 818. He states Kirby said at a recent town hall United is taking the A350s. And you are incorrect when you say management would not tell investors their fleet plan is off. Delta made it clear they did not plan to take 787s on order before canceling, and American also said they did not want the A350s before canceling those planes. United has done the opposite, saying the A350 is a perfect 777-200ER replacement.

It is # 267, for the Evolution

cosyr wrote:

VC10er wrote:

jayunited wrote:

Earning Live event wrapped up a few minutes ago and some very interesting topics came up during the Q&A session with employees.
Here are just a few of the high lights that really caught my attention.
1. JFK, Although Kirby wants to get UA back into JFK he admits there are no viable slots available that would be beneficial to UA customers at this point in time.
2. Growth v.s. Merger, At this point in time UA would rather grow organically than be involved in another merger. Reason being moving forward both Oscar and Kirby believe the governments appetite towards airline mergers has soured. And any future merger that involved either AA, DL, or UA and some other domestic carrier the government would require them to divest the very assets (gates, slots, ect) that would make a merger appealing. They both agreed never say never but in the same sentence they each stated there are no mergers in UA's future in the near term. Oscar also stated something to the fact that he believes mergers are bad for morale and would undo all the hard work UA has done to put the sCO/sUA merger behind us.
3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN.
4.Mid-continent hubs, UA continues to focus on beefing up ORD, IAH and DEN. Personally I got the feeling that instead of having what DL has at ATL, Both Oscar and Kirby UA envisions in a few years the 3 mid-continent hubs each having 700+ daily departures during the summer and at least 550 or more departures at other times of the year.
5. Premium customers, Continue to focus on premium customers and attracting more premium and corporate clientele at EWR and SFO. Interestingly enough UA is now attracting or seeing a high level of premium traffic at IAD than we have in the past. The stronger premium demand will result in high J 767's being deployed on certain routes from IAD.
6. Customer perception, all UA employees every day have to commit to changing the customers perception of our airline. Everything we do and every interaction we have with the public will either have a positive impact or it will reinforces the negative perception they already have. United doesn't want to be the airline people have to fly United wants to be the airline people choose to fly and that is a a big big difference.

Thanks JayUnited!

The very last bit really caught my attention because when I was at Landor in the early 1990’s someone named Stewao Owen and others had created very innovative research to rank brands. At first it was very clear something was very wrong. They we attempting to rank un-aided brand recall from 1 to 500. But very old dead brands were scoring too high. RETHINK! They changed to a few measures: relevant, different, knowledge and esteem. Everything changed.
Rolls Royce scores were extremely high on different, knowledge and esteem- but LOW on relevant because not many people can afford one.
New and hot brands had awesome difference & relevant but low knowledge: low esteem (it wasn’t known well enough. However they had the highest potential for growth
TWA: bombed on everything, except knowledge, a tad relevant
The message was from many thousands of respondents was: “TWA, we know you well, we don’t like you at all and you’re relevant because sometimes I have to fly you

It changed EVERYTHING in advertising which functioned on AWARENESS DRIVES BUSINESS, lots of TV, billboards and magazine ads. But consumers were saying: “Stop!” Because you cannot change my mind.

United: if they wish to become the airline people choose to fly, they need to do FAR more in Economy, be ASTOUNDING enough for people to talk about and let social media and word of mouth machine do a lot of very hard work delivering the message- because right now, United is too big and well known for a consumer to permit them to speak!

FA’s and others being wonderful and providing great service is a big part, and often are good, however investing in E fliers in another!

It's funny that you say that about TWA, because at the end, I had the opposite opinion. I thought they were above many, one of the last airlines to serve meals in coach, domestic award redemptions at 15k miles, not 25k, and style. I think the image problems they had at the very end were dictated by TWA 800, and the fact that there were 7 major airlines in the 90's to choose from, not 3 like today. I agree that United needs to maintain Economy and improve it's image for long term reasons, but airlines are almost universally despised in Y nowadays. Back in the 90's, some people still thought flying was fun.

Perhaps TWA was fine when you flew them. As they say perception is reality, and perceptions extremely difficult to change- especially when a brand is extremely famous and well known. It takes a lot of effort and time.
I did not have social media at the time but my single #1 WORST flight ever, with the rudest and most horrible people ever was on CO during the peak of its glory days.

It was like the very old CO, but 10x worse!

But, perceptions were changed! I wrote it off as every airline has a time when everything goes wrong and the folks in charge at the airport just happened to make things worse.

At least UA does have something on its side: a perception that change is happening. This is the time they must take full advantage, because they could lose it ALL with 1 broken guitar!

MSPNWA wrote:

Deferring an order is much more than a shred. The original order was also made by a previous regime. You apparently don't want to accept the existence of the evidence.

What management says means little to nothing. Never in a million years will they say they won't take an order before the action of not taking an order. Never in a million years will they state to investors that their fleet plan isn't what they want or need. What matters is what they do, and what they have done brings plenty of doubt into that order.

I get your skepticism because for a while I was skeptical because there were inconsistencies coming from upper management, there were people here at Willis who stated UA doesn't need the 789 and the A359. I would even go a bit further and state even though changed the order from 35 A35Js to 45 A359s, I think Kirby coming from AA was not convinced UA needed both the Boeing and Airbus models and was probably actively seeking a way to get UA out of the contract.
Having said that I think now Kirby has a better understanding of UA's long haul international network, he also has in depth knowledge of AA's long haul network and because of his experience, he can see the similarities and the differences between AA and UA's long haul network. Also when Kirby came in and got his team in place he hit the pause and reset buttons on UA entire fleet plan review. This is part of the reason it has taken UA so long to come to the conclusion that out of our entire 767 and 752 fleet there are 30-40 frames where neither the 788 or 737-10MAX are a viable replacement. So while AA and DL might not need both the 789 and A359s, after a thorough review Kirby and his team now understands UA does. And in he last town hall meeting when he was talking about the fleet plan the only thing he was indecisive about was if UA would go for Boeing's NMA or Airbus's A321XLR. But he made it clear that in addition to the additional 77Ws, 789s, 737MAXs, and the used A320/19s UA has on the delivery books the A359s are coming deliveries will start in 2022 end of story.

Personally (now this is just my opinion) once I started to look at each of the US3's long haul network individually and stopped comparing UA to DL and UA to AA, I can see why A359 is the perfect replacement for the 77Es. From a performance and size standpoint the A359 would give UA what we need without sacrificing seating capacity by downguaging to a 789 or adding unnecessary capacity by upguaging routes to either the 78J or 77W when those routes may not need that type of capacity on a year round basis.
Also (this next statement is rumor) don't be surprised if UA converts a small part of the existing A359 order to A359ULR. Again this is all rumor from the halls of Willis Tower so take it with a grain of salt because for now nothing is official but there could be more ULR flights in UA's future where an aircraft with the range of the A359ULR is needed. In my opinion Boeing's 778 is to big for UA's current and future ultra long needs and the 789 for now is at its limit (think IAH-SYD or the now canceled LAX-SIN) and Boeing shows no sign they intend to create a 789ER which leaves the A359ULR. In either a standard or high J configuration I can see UA taking a hard look at and perhaps ordering a few A359ULRs if some of the rumors are true.

Hearing the same, A-350 will replace the older 777-200s.

From sources, the Gold Stripe and the Gold On The Globe is staying. Smaller logo on the fuselage.

CALTECH wrote:

Hearing the same, A-350 will replace the older 777-200s.

From sources, the Gold Stripe and the Gold On The Globe is staying. Smaller logo on the fuselage.

GOLD GLOBE ON TAIL in the new livery???

snuggs28 wrote:

N505UA 757-222 being brought out of Retirement tomorrow. Ferry from GYR to MIA for some checks. Then back in Service.

This is due to the 737 MAX Groundings.

HAH! I called that one in one of the AA threads about 757s coming out of the desert for the MAX groundings. Is this the only one coming back for UA? Is it going to be legacy PS configuration or something different? They could use more slack in the fleet for BOS/EWR-LAX/SFO, but at 29.5 years old it's a rather shocking revival of a frame out of storage.

"3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN. "

I'm still curious as to how DEN is UA's most profitable hub after almost shunning it after the merger with CO. The competition is tough out there with WN and Frontier as well.

I lived in DEN for about 2 years and returned back to LAX as I was there for work. UA needs to be careful with DEN expansion because the cost of living is out of whack (especially real estate) and a lot of people are fleeing it almost as much as people are coming in. Local O&D could tank as a result and then they'll be right back to where they were at DEN back in 2010. And DEN will never be on the same level as a hub as ATL or DFW. It's really just hype by UA expanding DEN and far too late. Great hub nonetheless for them though.

N649DL wrote:

snuggs28 wrote:

N505UA 757-222 being brought out of Retirement tomorrow. Ferry from GYR to MIA for some checks. Then back in Service.

This is due to the 737 MAX Groundings.

HAH! I called that one in one of the AA threads about 757s coming out of the desert for the MAX groundings. Is this the only one coming back for UA? Is it going to be legacy PS configuration or something different? They could use more slack in the fleet for BOS/EWR-LAX/SFO, but at 29.5 years old it's a rather shocking revival of a frame out of storage.

It's worth noting, though, that this frame was only stored 2 months ago. I think it's been a couple years since AA sent a 757 to the desert, so that makes it less likely that they'd bring one back.

N649DL wrote:

I'm still curious as to how DEN is UA's most profitable hub after almost shunning it after the merger with CO. The competition is tough out there with WN and Frontier as well.

I lived in DEN for about 2 years and returned back to LAX as I was there for work. UA needs to be careful with DEN expansion because the cost of living is out of whack (especially real estate) and a lot of people are fleeing it almost as much as people are coming in. Local O&D could tank as a result and then they'll be right back to where they were at DEN back in 2010. And DEN will never be on the same level as a hub as ATL or DFW. It's really just hype by UA expanding DEN and far too late. Great hub nonetheless for them though.

Denver’s population is growing - how could that translate to *less* O&D? By that line of thinking, United should dehub SFO because the cost of living and population are increasing there too.

By every metric, UA’s expansion at DEN has been a success. The conpany’s very pleased with it and is continuing to expand rapidly there while posting strong financial results. Southwest and Frontier are both there but they both are down in market share year over year in DEN while United is up more than two percent.

I don’t know how much of the doubts of United’s future in DEN post merger were ever much more than speculation, but even so, the Smisek-era philosophy of cutting capacity and retreating to EWR, ORD, and SFO only while letting other hubs whither clearly turned out to be the wrong direction for the airline.Increasing connectivity throughout the network (but particularly in the mid con hubs) appears to be working very well.

intotheair wrote:

N649DL wrote:

I'm still curious as to how DEN is UA's most profitable hub after almost shunning it after the merger with CO. The competition is tough out there with WN and Frontier as well.

I lived in DEN for about 2 years and returned back to LAX as I was there for work. UA needs to be careful with DEN expansion because the cost of living is out of whack (especially real estate) and a lot of people are fleeing it almost as much as people are coming in. Local O&D could tank as a result and then they'll be right back to where they were at DEN back in 2010. And DEN will never be on the same level as a hub as ATL or DFW. It's really just hype by UA expanding DEN and far too late. Great hub nonetheless for them though.

Denver’s population is growing - how could that translate to *less* O&D? By that line of thinking, United should dehub SFO because the cost of living and population are increasing there too.

By every metric, UA’s expansion at DEN has been a success. The conpany’s very pleased with it and is continuing to expand rapidly there while posting strong financial results. Southwest and Frontier are both there but they both are down in market share year over year in DEN while United is up more than two percent.

I don’t know how much of the doubts of United’s future in DEN post merger were ever much more than speculation, but even so, the Smisek-era philosophy of cutting capacity and retreating to EWR, ORD, and SFO only while letting other hubs whither clearly turned out to be the wrong direction for the airline.Increasing connectivity throughout the network (but particularly in the mid con hubs) appears to be working very well.

Sounds like some who spout myths as facts....

"Denver's metro population grew by 1.53% from 2017 to 2018, with 44,188 new residents, according to new population estimates released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

The metro's total population for 2018 was 2,932,415. Denver remains the 19th-largest metro in the U.S., just behind Tampa."

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news ... -data.html

N649DL wrote:

snuggs28 wrote:

N505UA 757-222 being brought out of Retirement tomorrow. Ferry from GYR to MIA for some checks. Then back in Service.

This is due to the 737 MAX Groundings.

HAH! I called that one in one of the AA threads about 757s coming out of the desert for the MAX groundings. Is this the only one coming back for UA? Is it going to be legacy PS configuration or something different? They could use more slack in the fleet for BOS/EWR-LAX/SFO, but at 29.5 years old it's a rather shocking revival of a frame out of storage.

"3. Denver, UA is in talks with the airport authority in DEN to acquire more gates, or to build more gates/terminal. DEN is still one UA's most profitable hub, Denver (the city), the surrounding areas, and Colorado overall are growing. People and business are coming into Denver and the state of Colorado, as Kirby put it Denver (the city) and suburbs are where Atlanta (the city) was 10-12 years ago in terms of growth and attracting people and businesses. In just 2 years UA has grown DEN from 350 flights during the summer to 515 daily flights this coming year and UA isn't done growing DEN. UA will never have over 1,000 daily departures from DEN as DL has from ATL simply because UA spreads the load more evenly over mulitple hubs but UA isn't done growing at DEN. As Denver continues to grow UA will continue to grow at DEN both domestically and internationally. Stay tuned for future international growth from DEN. Personally I think Kirby envisions growing DEN to about 700+ daily departures during the summer to match ORD and perhaps 550-625 for the remainder of the year, but we are still a couple years away from 700 departures at DEN. "

I'm still curious as to how DEN is UA's most profitable hub after almost shunning it after the merger with CO. The competition is tough out there with WN and Frontier as well.

I lived in DEN for about 2 years and returned back to LAX as I was there for work. UA needs to be careful with DEN expansion because the cost of living is out of whack (especially real estate) and a lot of people are fleeing it almost as much as people are coming in. Local O&D could tank as a result and then they'll be right back to where they were at DEN back in 2010. And DEN will never be on the same level as a hub as ATL or DFW. It's really just hype by UA expanding DEN and far too late. Great hub nonetheless for them though.

Frontier isn't the threat to UA in Denver that it used to be, primarily due to very bad flight times, the 'nickle and dime' feeling people leave with, and the experience (e.g. no-recline seats). Also, most everyone that I know that has flown Frontier recently, has made the comment they will not fly them again and actually carried through except on the shortest of flights (e.g. DEN to ABQ or MCI). Their analysis was that the base fare was cheap but by the time you factor in the 'nickle and dime' items, the cost difference is not worth it especially for experience that Frontier provides.

The numbers prove it is a 2 man race at this point between UA and WN @ DEN

Airline.....2018 Mkt Share.....2019 Mkt Share
UA..........42.4%....................44.9%
WN.........28.9%....................30.4%
F9..........10.8%....................10.9%
AA..........5.2%......................5.7%
DL..........5.1%......................5.1%

In a update on the painting, the Gold Stripe and the Gold paint on the Globe on the tail was being applied last week. Clear coat now to make her shiny. It was also stated that a logo was applied on the fuselage (before or after the UNITED fuselage title ?).

subCAL is history
subUAL is history
Meatball is history
Tulip is history
They're done
The Globe is here to stay
This is a new Global company flying out of the ashes of the merger

CALTECH wrote:

intotheair wrote:

N649DL wrote:

I'm still curious as to how DEN is UA's most profitable hub after almost shunning it after the merger with CO. The competition is tough out there with WN and Frontier as well.

I lived in DEN for about 2 years and returned back to LAX as I was there for work. UA needs to be careful with DEN expansion because the cost of living is out of whack (especially real estate) and a lot of people are fleeing it almost as much as people are coming in. Local O&D could tank as a result and then they'll be right back to where they were at DEN back in 2010. And DEN will never be on the same level as a hub as ATL or DFW. It's really just hype by UA expanding DEN and far too late. Great hub nonetheless for them though.

Denver’s population is growing - how could that translate to *less* O&D? By that line of thinking, United should dehub SFO because the cost of living and population are increasing there too.

By every metric, UA’s expansion at DEN has been a success. The conpany’s very pleased with it and is continuing to expand rapidly there while posting strong financial results. Southwest and Frontier are both there but they both are down in market share year over year in DEN while United is up more than two percent.

I don’t know how much of the doubts of United’s future in DEN post merger were ever much more than speculation, but even so, the Smisek-era philosophy of cutting capacity and retreating to EWR, ORD, and SFO only while letting other hubs whither clearly turned out to be the wrong direction for the airline.Increasing connectivity throughout the network (but particularly in the mid con hubs) appears to be working very well.

Sounds like some who spout myths as facts....

"Denver's metro population grew by 1.53% from 2017 to 2018, with 44,188 new residents, according to new population estimates released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

The metro's total population for 2018 was 2,932,415. Denver remains the 19th-largest metro in the U.S., just behind Tampa."

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news ... -data.html

It is true that Denver's population is still growing at a fairly strong rate, however the there is a lot of noise in 44k growth number. Denver is a top 5 market for people 'looking to leave' https://www.redfin.com/blog/q3-2018-migration-report/. Destinations have varied over the past year, however Phoenix, Seattle, and Colorado Springs top the lists. CO Springs, is a feeder market to DIA so the numbers will likely be moot for air travel. I don't expect to see a net drop in population in the Denver metro area, however the more foundational changes going on are hidden in the headline numbers.