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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:45 pm

I don't get why UA started the GE772 mod before the PW772s are completed and especially having more GE units in mod over the summer. If all crews are merged, wouldn't UA want to knock out the PW772s first with the 8 across Business seats. Beside better Business seats, the GE units also have higher max TOW.

Maybe there's a maintenance element that requires the PW units to get to XMN?

Could HKG start doing the PW units? You'd think once stripped, there shouldn't be much difference in either interior.
 
strfyr51
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:07 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
I calculated the average age in years of single-aisle fleet (not including MAXs)
15.8 United
15.5 Delta
14.5 Sun Country
13.3 Allegiant Air
11.8 Southwest
11.1 American
11.0 Hawaiian
10.4 Jetblue
7.6 Alaska Airlines
5.7 Spirit Airlines
3.9 Frontier Airlines
--------------------
It has struck me that United is making no efforts to purchase new smaller jets (A319 or B737-700) or mid size jets (A320 pr B737-800) . They do have plans to add 34 used A319s. Instead they are spending all their money on twin aisle jets and larger B737-900ER and now MAX 9/10s..

What is up with United? I think they are hoping that the scoping clause will be re-negotiated from 76 seats to 125 seats and they can eliminate their smallest jets and farm out those routes to United Express.



you might be wrong for sure, Unless they bring the Majority uf UAX flying In House? going from 76 to 125 for UAX? Ain't gonna Happen and It would take a MJOR Strike for it TO Happen.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:04 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I don't get why UA started the GE772 mod before the PW772s are completed and especially having more GE units in mod over the summer. If all crews are merged, wouldn't UA want to knock out the PW772s first with the 8 across Business seats. Beside better Business seats, the GE units also have higher max TOW.

Maybe there's a maintenance element that requires the PW units to get to XMN?

Could HKG start doing the PW units? You'd think once stripped, there shouldn't be much difference in either interior.


I don't know or have an answer to those questions but what I find equally as perplexing is the 764s. The first thing I look for every time there is an update to the Polaris P.E. installations timetable is a start date for the 764s. Every other widebody fleet type has a start and an estimated completion date except for this fleet type. For the life of me I can't understand why that is or what problems they are facing or need to solve before they can release a projected start date for re-configuring the 764s.
I can't see UA removing the 764s from international service, and they don't have the capacity to replace the HD 77As so I don't know what to think as it pertains to the 764 fleet.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:55 am

codc10 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
I'm not sure about the accuracy of this story, but it indicates the 100 seat market with mainline pilots is 20% higher than Airbus 320/321 for JetBlue and its a problem. https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/ ... embra.aspx


E90 is not a great CASM airplane to begin with, and has disproportionately high maintenance costs. Notable that this article was before JetBlue ratified a new pilot contract with some substantial raises.

The economics are better at mainline carriers closer to 120 seats. At 99 seats (AA config) the E90 probably has the highest CASM in the narrowbody fleet.


The aircraft UA would probably be looking at is the ERJ-195E2, which hopefully would Have better economics than the B6 ERJ190s and be way more
Reliable with lower maintenance costs.

How many seats would an ERJ195 E2 seat for UA with its layout of F, Y+, Y with slim line seats etc..


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strfyr51
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:26 am

jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
I don't get why UA started the GE772 mod before the PW772s are completed and especially having more GE units in mod over the summer. If all crews are merged, wouldn't UA want to knock out the PW772s first with the 8 across Business seats. Beside better Business seats, the GE units also have higher max TOW.

Maybe there's a maintenance element that requires the PW units to get to XMN?

Could HKG start doing the PW units? You'd think once stripped, there shouldn't be much difference in either interior.


I don't know or have an answer to those questions but what I find equally as perplexing is the 764s. The first thing I look for every time there is an update to the Polaris P.E. installations timetable is a start date for the 764s. Every other widebody fleet type has a start and an estimated completion date except for this fleet type. For the life of me I can't understand why that is or what problems they are facing or need to solve before they can release a projected start date for re-configuring the 764s.
I can't see UA removing the 764s from international service, and they don't have the capacity to replace the HD 77As so I don't know what to think as it pertains to the 764 fleet.

Could it Be a matter of Ownership of the B764's What might be the Lease terms? Those airplanes did NOT come new from the factory to S-CO. So? The Ownership of those airframes could be what's holding them up in being reconfigured. I've seen this happen before from the B747-100's to the B777's where the Owners wanted more say in the airplanes than United wanted to give. And a Major cabin Mod? Might want to modify the leasing arrangements to get the best return on Investment...
Since United will Pay for the Mods..
 
CONTACREW
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:31 am

strfyr51 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
I don't get why UA started the GE772 mod before the PW772s are completed and especially having more GE units in mod over the summer. If all crews are merged, wouldn't UA want to knock out the PW772s first with the 8 across Business seats. Beside better Business seats, the GE units also have higher max TOW.

Maybe there's a maintenance element that requires the PW units to get to XMN?

Could HKG start doing the PW units? You'd think once stripped, there shouldn't be much difference in either interior.


I don't know or have an answer to those questions but what I find equally as perplexing is the 764s. The first thing I look for every time there is an update to the Polaris P.E. installations timetable is a start date for the 764s. Every other widebody fleet type has a start and an estimated completion date except for this fleet type. For the life of me I can't understand why that is or what problems they are facing or need to solve before they can release a projected start date for re-configuring the 764s.
I can't see UA removing the 764s from international service, and they don't have the capacity to replace the HD 77As so I don't know what to think as it pertains to the 764 fleet.

Could it Be a matter of Ownership of the B764's What might be the Lease terms? Those airplanes did NOT come new from the factory to S-CO. So? The Ownership of those airframes could be what's holding them up in being reconfigured. I've seen this happen before from the B747-100's to the B777's where the Owners wanted more say in the airplanes than United wanted to give. And a Major cabin Mod? Might want to modify the leasing arrangements to get the best return on Investment...
Since United will Pay for the Mods..


The 764s were absolutely delivered fresh from the factory to CO.
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:16 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Could it Be a matter of Ownership of the B764's What might be the Lease terms? Those airplanes did NOT come new from the factory to S-CO. So? The Ownership of those airframes could be what's holding them up in being reconfigured. I've seen this happen before from the B747-100's to the B777's where the Owners wanted more say in the airplanes than United wanted to give. And a Major cabin Mod? Might want to modify the leasing arrangements to get the best return on Investment...
Since United will Pay for the Mods..

Continental was the launch customer for the 764. Apart from one aircraft produced as a testbed and later sold as a VIP, there were only two customers for the 764 — Delta and Continental. All 16 aircraft in UA's current fleet were delivered from the factory directly to Continental. There have never been any other operators of the type.

I can only assume the delay is either due to UA evaluating the long term viability of the type in the fleet (which I can't believe they'd dump it anytime soon) or because they're choosing to prioritize other types. Or perhaps these aircraft will end up running domestic rotations at some point, and Polaris won't be necessary.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:35 am

I have a strong feeling those 764s are going to replace the 777As. I know it’s a capacity drop but that’s ok if United ups frequency. The 764 CASM is fantastic it could be a great hub connector when the 777As are retired.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:22 am

strfyr51 wrote:
you might be wrong for sure


That seems to be the general consensus. Most people think that United wll be putting in a massive order for jets smaller than 179 seats within five years (or converting the MAX order).

strfyr51 wrote:
It would take a MJOR Strike for it TO Happen.


I am not imagining anything pretty,
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:11 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
I have a strong feeling those 764s are going to replace the 777As. I know it’s a capacity drop but that’s ok if United ups frequency. The 764 CASM is fantastic it could be a great hub connector when the 777As are retired.


On the 764's, it does seem odd we have not heard anything. There was a rumor that UA has "held" 14 78J slots for the replacement of the 772A's, but nothing was ever confirmed. Maybe there is some discussion regarding the replacement of the 764's with a 787 model of some sort or converting them to domestic as you suggest. Or UA has sold the 764's to Amazon who is buying everything.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:08 pm

While looking at crew costs I saw a website that showed pilot pay rates were much higher for the 764 vs 763, which seems odd.
Otherwise the 764 seems more profitable than the 763 with more seats for not much more fuel and landing fees.
I have always thought the fact that the 764 has a door 2 where the 763 doesn't, it's possible that door fits right in the middle of a Polaris row. So, seating efficiency may be lower or would a row or 2 of coach/or fit behind a smaller Polaris section.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:26 pm

GmoneyCO wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

It's been a long time since they ordered some new smaller jets.
B737-700
25: 25. Jul. 1996
11: 10. Oct. 1996


So you aren’t counting Airbus? Almost all the A319 showed up from 98-02. And there is close to 30 319s that United has laid claim to in the last couple years on the used market. Also took some COPA 737-700 a couple years ago.

What is your fixation on “new”?


There is at least one more Copa 73G still to come too!


yeah, 0755
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:28 pm

fun2fly wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
I have a strong feeling those 764s are going to replace the 777As. I know it’s a capacity drop but that’s ok if United ups frequency. The 764 CASM is fantastic it could be a great hub connector when the 777As are retired.


On the 764's, it does seem odd we have not heard anything. There was a rumor that UA has "held" 14 78J slots for the replacement of the 772A's, but nothing was ever confirmed. Maybe there is some discussion regarding the replacement of the 764's with a 787 model of some sort or converting them to domestic as you suggest. Or UA has sold the 764's to Amazon who is buying everything.


Well if you want a match-for-match replacement you can always get the A350-942 which is the derated engine version of the A350 used by Singapore and Japan Airlines for regional flights... Also you can't really do 3-4-3 for a legacy airline on these so they should provide the same capacity as the current 772A while having more comfort
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:08 pm

I don't think the 764s are going anywhere. If they were to be sold, I'll be DL would jump all over it. As a cargo carrier, it may have too much length and not have the dense lift required.

Polaris seats take up a lot more room than Diamond seats. The 772 total seat count remains constant due to 10 across in Y and the 763 seat count must be the same due to E+ seat pitch reduction by an inch and removal of 2 closets.

For example, the 772 sCO units have 26 diamond seats between door 1 and 2, but that space also includes 3 lavs, a closet and a galley - in the same space there are 28 Polaris seats (no closets/galleys/lavs).

Not knowing exactly how many inches are available or seat pitch on the 767 Polaris seats, measuring from photos, my estimate is UA would get in 30 or 33 Polaris seats where there are current 39 Diamond seats - with door 2 nothing can be slid back as with the 763.

There is no place on the 764 to gain more Polaris seats but to pull 3-5 rows of 7 across coach, which would really cut total seating. So, in my crude estimate, UA would have to decide if the 764 would work with 6 to 9 fewer BF seats or about 21-35 fewer Y seats.

The decision could be to place the 764 on similar services as the 772A as the CASM is low and it has plenty of seats. Hawaii, transcon, hub-to-hub, and/or seasonal Transatlatic to lower premium demand cities. UA could also choose to remove some rows of Diamond seats to denisify the aircraft for these type of services. 19 Diamond seats (leaving 20) could add 35 Y seats for a total pickup of 16 seats (256 vs. current 240).

If this happens it would be sad as the 764 is a great aircraft for TATL markets with a decent range of at least IAH-FRA and South America services.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Here's DL 764 reconfigured new cabin configuration: 238 seats or 2 seats fewer than UA's 240.
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

Might be a good clue as to what UA can do with it's units if they don't go to 77A replacements / PS replacements.
 
audidudi
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:19 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Here's DL 764 reconfigured new cabin configuration: 238 seats or 2 seats fewer than UA's 240.
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

Might be a good clue as to what UA can do with it's units if they don't go to 77A replacements / PS replacements.

Remember that you're comparing DL's B764 with UA's B763ER seat count here. The B764 is 21' longer, so when UA refurbishes their fleet, then their seat count could be higher than DL's.
Last edited by audidudi on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:20 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
The 764 CASM is fantastic it could be a great hub connector when the 777As are retired.


I don't know how big the P.S. markets are but would the 764 be too large as a 757 P.S. replacement? Possibly reduce a couple frequencies (good idea for congested EWR and SFO) and offer pax a widebody option when on relatively long domestic legs.
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FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:24 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Could it Be a matter of Ownership of the B764's What might be the Lease terms? Those airplanes did NOT come new from the factory to S-CO. So? The Ownership of those airframes could be what's holding them up in being reconfigured. I've seen this happen before from the B747-100's to the B777's where the Owners wanted more say in the airplanes than United wanted to give. And a Major cabin Mod? Might want to modify the leasing arrangements to get the best return on Investment...


IIRC, CO owned 14 of the 16 764s. ALL were delivered to CO new from the factory. CO and DL were the only customers.

calpsafltskeds wrote:
While looking at crew costs I saw a website that showed pilot pay rates were much higher for the 764 vs 763, which seems odd.
Otherwise the 764 seems more profitable than the 763 with more seats for not much more fuel and landing fees.
I have always thought the fact that the 764 has a door 2 where the 763 doesn't, it's possible that door fits right in the middle of a Polaris row. So, seating efficiency may be lower or would a row or 2 of coach/or fit behind a smaller Polaris section.


With the current UAL ALPA contract, the 764s pay the same as the other widebody aircraft, but the 763 doesn't - it pays the same as the 753, IIRC.
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EssentialBusDC
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:15 pm

audidudi wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Here's DL 764 reconfigured new cabin configuration: 238 seats or 2 seats fewer than UA's 240.
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

Might be a good clue as to what UA can do with it's units if they don't go to 77A replacements / PS replacements.

Remember that you're comparing DL's B764 with UA's B763ER seat count here. The B764 is 21' longer, so when UA refurbishes their fleet, then their seat count could be higher than DL's.


Nope. 240 is the correct UAL 767-400 seat count. The 767-300 seats a max of 214 at United.
 
audidudi
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:20 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
audidudi wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Here's DL 764 reconfigured new cabin configuration: 238 seats or 2 seats fewer than UA's 240.
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

Might be a good clue as to what UA can do with it's units if they don't go to 77A replacements / PS replacements.

Remember that you're comparing DL's B764 with UA's B763ER seat count here. The B764 is 21' longer, so when UA refurbishes their fleet, then their seat count could be higher than DL's.


Nope. 240 is the correct UAL 767-400 seat count. The 767-300 seats a max of 214 at United.

My bad! I was thinking that you were referring to UA's Polaris equipped B763ERs, rather than the current B764 seat count! The UA Polaris frames have 207 seats vs 214 for the non-Polaris frames.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 pm

audidudi wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
audidudi wrote:
Remember that you're comparing DL's B764 with UA's B763ER seat count here. The B764 is 21' longer, so when UA refurbishes their fleet, then their seat count could be higher than DL's.


Nope. 240 is the correct UAL 767-400 seat count. The 767-300 seats a max of 214 at United.

My bad! I was thinking that you were referring to UA's Polaris equipped B763ERs, rather than the current B764 seat count! The UA Polaris frames have 207 seats vs 214 for the non-Polaris frames.


The Polaris aircraft share the same exact seat counts as their non-Polaris counterparts. 30/184.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:58 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
audidudi wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:

Nope. 240 is the correct UAL 767-400 seat count. The 767-300 seats a max of 214 at United.

My bad! I was thinking that you were referring to UA's Polaris equipped B763ERs, rather than the current B764 seat count! The UA Polaris frames have 207 seats vs 214 for the non-Polaris frames.


The Polaris aircraft share the same exact seat counts as their non-Polaris counterparts. 30/184.


With the exception of the growing 76L fleet, former two-cabin (and Hawaiian) 767-300ERs in a 46J/22W/99Y layout (total 167).
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:29 pm

Question for some of you with more knowledge on the Polaris equipped 763 and 777. Im flying IAH-GRU tomorrow in J. For the last two months since Ive made the reservation, it showed the 763 with the older seats. As of last night its showing the flight to have the new Polaris seats which made me quite thrilled.

How is the airline deciding to place the re-configured aircraft? Is it luck of the draw or is it based on loads? I know it has two extra J seats in the 763 and the flight is very full in J tomorrow.

Would love any insight.
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:09 pm

As for the 764 on EWR-LAX/SFO
Looking at this Thursday UA is operating the following aircraft on the EWR-LAX/SFO routes
757RR (16/153) 7 LAX 112/1071 ttl seats, 3 SFO 48/459 ttl seats
757PW (28/114) 2 LAX 56/228 ttl seats, 8 SFO 224/912 ttl seats
772D (28/336) 1 LAX 28/336 ttl seats, 3 SFO 84/1008 ttl seats
78X (44/274) 2 LAX 88/548 ttl seats, 1 SFO 44/274 ttl seats

Total seats (Y seats include PE seats on 78X units)
LAX (12 flights) 284F/2183Y = 2467, 11.5% F seating
SFO (15 flights) 400F/2653Y = 3053, 13.1% F seating

As for potential use on EWR-LAX/SFO
764 has 39/201, 16.25% F seating (other options could reduce F seating for PE or Y seats)
16 aircraft could serve probably 16 round trips with a spare if dedicated to EWR-LAX/SFO only (other units would need to pick up EWR-HNL and a few more routes). That might mean
LAX 7 round trips, 273F/1047Y = 1680 seats each way (currently 284F/2183Y seats = 2467
SFO 9 round trips, 351F/1809Y = 2160 seats each way (currently 400F/2953Y seats = 3053
The above could provide something like a departure every 2 hours on LAX and every 1.5 hours on SFO.

It would be considerably short in Y seats vs. the market today. I would assume it would take additional lift to serve the market in peak times/seasons, like a 772 Domestic aircraft or 78X.
 
77H
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:43 pm

fun2fly wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
I have a strong feeling those 764s are going to replace the 777As. I know it’s a capacity drop but that’s ok if United ups frequency. The 764 CASM is fantastic it could be a great hub connector when the 777As are retired.


On the 764's, it does seem odd we have not heard anything. There was a rumor that UA has "held" 14 78J slots for the replacement of the 772A's, but nothing was ever confirmed. Maybe there is some discussion regarding the replacement of the 764's with a 787 model of some sort or converting them to domestic as you suggest. Or UA has sold the 764's to Amazon who is buying everything.


I agree. I think UA will task the 78X as a 77A replacement. The 764 is a poor choice from a seat count perspective. Even if UA were to bring the J count on the 764 to 28 like the 77A I imagine the 764s capacity would top out in the 260-270 seat range for a loss of over 100 seats compared to the 77A.

The 359R may be suitable replacement as UA wouldn’t need the performance capabilities of the standard 359. Is there a difference in OEW between the standard 359 and the 359R? How do those weights stack up against the 78X? If the 359/R is appreciably heavier than the 78X I’d posit the odds are with 78.
As an added bonus, the 78X has slightly more cargo capacity than the 359, which would come in handy on the hub-hub & Hawaii routes.

Lastly, UA only has 45 359s on order which doesn’t even cover the 77E fleet 1:1. Converting ~19 of those to the 359R or otherwise derated variant only furthers the deficit in frames.

The other possibility is that the 77Es would replace the 77A as the 359s come on property in ‘22. I would imagine UA would pull down the J count to something akin to what the 77A has to make room for more Y seats.

Time will tell. The 77As were just reconfigured roughly 2 years ago. I don’t see why UA would have gone through the expenditure if they didn’t mean to fly them for at least another 5-10 years.

77H
 
strfyr51
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:29 pm

Since United flies their wide body airplanes around 19-24 years? I think the notion that the 77A might be replaced is Valid for the A359.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:20 am

FlyHossD wrote:

IIRC, CO owned 14 of the 16 764s. ALL were delivered to CO new from the factory. CO and .


They were. EWR-MCO was the run the 767-424s were put on.
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:43 am

When (or about when) does the first 787 go in for Polaris/PE renovation?
Will they start with 789s or 788s? Or don’t know?
I saw Delta’s new 764. A very long time ago someone mentioned some kind of news, update or comment about the 764s. That was long ago, any news re: the 764s? I see many 764s currently doing some high premium potential destinations today. ZRH for one. Any thoughts on moving 764’s around as more Polaris/PE come on line?
In terms of configuration: if a 764 is replaced with a new Polaris/PE refurbished ac or new ac- what is closest in terms of capacity? 787-10 or 772?
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snuggs28
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:37 am

764 Polaris was 34-18-175 = 227 last year. I don't know if it has changed. But the 764's will be the last Aircraft to be done.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:10 am

snuggs28 wrote:
764 Polaris was 34-18-175 = 227 last year. I don't know if it has changed. But the 764's will be the last Aircraft to be done.


Thanks!
I recall something about the 764 not being able to accommodate a larger Polaris cabin due to emergency exits or something, and while longer than the 763, the additional length did not actually help? Which could change the missions, Eg; HAWAII or more intra hub people mover, or lower J destinations?
I know they are pushing 20 years old, but I don’t know enough about to take a guess how much longer their lifespan is. If they are VERY LAST on the list, which aircraft would be best to replace them? I assume a 787-10. A 789 might be an under use of a 789’s range etc?
Or the soon to be unveiled 797!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7545
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:37 am

I just don’t see UA using the 787-10 for a high density domestic 777A replacement


Maybe in 10 years from now, but their performance is far better suited to international flying


A far more likely replacement for the A model triples will be the older
P&W ER models


They probably have enough life for another decades service after the 359’s are delivered and their use will eliminate any
weight restrictions on routes such as
ORD-HNL
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1472
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:08 am

Max Q wrote:
I just don’t see UA using the 787-10 for a high density domestic 777A replacement


Maybe in 10 years from now, but their performance is far better suited to international flying


A far more likely replacement for the A model triples will be the older
P&W ER models


They probably have enough life for another decades service after the 359’s are delivered and their use will eliminate any
weight restrictions on routes such as
ORD-HNL


Max - EWR and IAD to HNL is no different than a TATL route. I think the 78J is slated to be the replacement for these a/c in 2024 if the 14 78J order is true.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1472
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:31 am

Will the Q4 delivery 789's come with PE?
 
codc10
Posts: 2503
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:32 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Will the Q4 delivery 789's come with PE?


Yes, Polaris and PE.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:38 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Will the Q4 delivery 789's come with PE?


Yes all 789 future deliveries will be delivered with the full Polaris and P.E. seats installed just like the 78Xs were delivered. UA is no longer taking delivery of any widebody aircraft with either the old diamond seats or aircraft with just Polaris but no P.E..

UA is scheduled to take delivery of 2 77Ws and I'm not 100% sure the exact number of 789s in Q4 2019. But these aircraft will be delivered with the full Polaris/P.E. seat arrangement. The 789 deliveries starting in Q4 coincides with the first 789 going in for reconfiguration in early November. For now UA hasn't released how many lines they want to run, that information will be released as we get closer to November. I'm imagining 1 line for the 788s and at least 2 lines for the 789s. However with 2 77Ws being delivered in Q4 and I think the remaining 2 77Ws are being delivered in either Q1 2020 or Q2 2020 I think UA might be able to run 3 reconfiguration lines for the 789s. It will be interesting to see which routes out of SFO (just my opinion) UA chooses to deploy those 2 additional 77Ws and 789 deliveries we get later this year. It could have a trickle down effect, freeing up enough frames allowing UA to run 3 789 lines during IATA winter.

The 788s in my opinion are a bit more tricky because we only have 12 frames and I think for IATA winter UA needs 9 frames (subject to change) 1 frame goes in for Polaris/P.E. the other 2 frame are possible spares. In extreme situations a 789 or 78X could replace a 788 but UA normally executes those drastic plane changes as a last resort
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:23 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Max Q wrote:
I just don’t see UA using the 787-10 for a high density domestic 777A replacement


Maybe in 10 years from now, but their performance is far better suited to international flying


A far more likely replacement for the A model triples will be the older
P&W ER models


They probably have enough life for another decades service after the 359’s are delivered and their use will eliminate any
weight restrictions on routes such as
ORD-HNL


Max - EWR and IAD to HNL is no different than a TATL route. I think the 78J is slated to be the replacement for these a/c in 2024 if the 14 78J order is true.

East coast-HNL is just different enough though. Longer distance to cover by about an hour (EWR-HNL is 400 nm longer-blocked at 10:58, the longest Europe route IAD-FCO block time is 9:45. NAP-EWR while not as long miles wise is blocked at 10:10) and the ETOPs segment requirement going west over the Pacific.

Most likely is converting 777ers to a domestic config and retire the A models. Let the 787/350 fly the international markets where their efficiency compared to the 777 would be most beneficial.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2890
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:19 pm

772:
N218UA now sked to exit XMN 2749/28Jun with Polaris/PE confirmed, will operate 896/28Jun
N792UA sked to enter XMN 2750/28Jun, this unit already has Polaris, maint visit? Takes 772PW Polaris mod line to zero?

Maybe old news, but UA has now suspended EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL until 9/1 due to airpspace closure in Iran and Pakistan. This pops a minimum of 1 full unit per route, although DEL was already pulled due Pakistan airspace.
Added lift on domestic services? Probably not going into added mod unit.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:49 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
772:
N218UA now sked to exit XMN 2749/28Jun with Polaris/PE confirmed, will operate 896/28Jun
N792UA sked to enter XMN 2750/28Jun, this unit already has Polaris, maint visit? Takes 772PW Polaris mod line to zero?

Maybe old news, but UA has now suspended EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL until 9/1 due to airpspace closure in Iran and Pakistan. This pops a minimum of 1 full unit per route, although DEL was already pulled due Pakistan airspace.
Added lift on domestic services? Probably not going into added mod unit.


According to the most recent update released on this past Monday the next PW 77E scheduled for Polaris/PE installation is scheduled to enter XMN on July 21st tail number N209UA. We have seen UA swap aircraft out aircraft so don't get caught up on the tail number that could change. From the updated schedule there will be no Polaris/PE installation taking place at XMN between June 28th and July 21st. On July 21st a PW 77E N209UA (could change) will enter XMN it is schedule to exit XMN on September 1st. Then on September 2nd and then again on September 21 another 2 PW 77Es will go to XMN for Polaris/PE installation. UA will run 2 lines at XMN in September both September entrants are scheduled to reenter service at the end of October and the second week of November. After the 2 September frames return to service there will be 2 more PW 77Es going in one in late October and another in November. The late October entrant is schedule to reenter service late December and another PW frame will replace it. However if we are all keeping count that still leaves 4 IPTE PW 77Es in revenue service come January 2020, these were the 4 frames that were mistakenly removed from the previous update. If UA is to stay on schedule and have all IPTE 77Es removed from revenue service by mid to late February It seems like they will have to run 2 installation lines at XMN starting in September.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1338
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:35 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Max Q wrote:
I just don’t see UA using the 787-10 for a high density domestic 777A replacement


Maybe in 10 years from now, but their performance is far better suited to international flying


A far more likely replacement for the A model triples will be the older
P&W ER models


They probably have enough life for another decades service after the 359’s are delivered and their use will eliminate any
weight restrictions on routes such as
ORD-HNL


Max - EWR and IAD to HNL is no different than a TATL route. I think the 78J is slated to be the replacement for these a/c in 2024 if the 14 78J order is true.

East coast-HNL is just different enough though. Longer distance to cover by about an hour (EWR-HNL is 400 nm longer-blocked at 10:58, the longest Europe route IAD-FCO block time is 9:45. NAP-EWR while not as long miles wise is blocked at 10:10) and the ETOPs segment requirement going west over the Pacific.

Most likely is converting 777ers to a domestic config and retire the A models. Let the 787/350 fly the international markets where their efficiency compared to the 777 would be most beneficial.

There may be a difference, but CO used to fly the 764 EWR-HNL, both their normal config with 35 J seats, and their higher density GUM based fleet with 20J seats and more Y.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:49 pm

UAX Update:

CR2:
N881AS has left ExpressJet and is now flying Skywest/UAX
​​​​​​​N871AS has left ExpressJet and is now flying Skywest/UAX
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2890
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:16 pm

763:
N684UA, Ex N588HA, looking to ferry from IAD to MCO 2729/26Jun, Induction related?
 
VC10er
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:00 am

Total new tech aircraft count question:
I’ve lost a bit of count because of smaller orders and top offs and high potential orders.

As of today:
When all 100% firm orders are delivered and ADDED to current in service
How of the following predicted in the fleet:

788
789 + number of HIGHLY PREDICTED orders
78X + number of HIGHLY PREDICTED orders
77W (not really new tech)

I presume NOT enough intel on # of A350’s to know total deliveries and of what size or anything converted to another type
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
User avatar
KVH68
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:09 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:44 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
763:
N684UA, Ex N588HA, looking to ferry from IAD to MCO 2729/26Jun, Induction related?


Overwing emergency door needs some modification.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:46 am

Will United operate any hot spares this summer?
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:10 am

VC10er wrote:
Total new tech aircraft count question:
I’ve lost a bit of count because of smaller orders and top offs and high potential orders.

As of today:
When all 100% firm orders are delivered and ADDED to current in service
How of the following predicted in the fleet:

788
789 + number of HIGHLY PREDICTED orders
78X + number of HIGHLY PREDICTED orders
77W (not really new tech)

I presume NOT enough intel on # of A350’s to know total deliveries and of what size or anything converted to another type


788- 12 total, no orders
789- 38, 25 +13 to be delivered
78X- 14, 9 +5 to be delivered
77W- 22, 18 +4 to be delivered
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2890
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:45 pm

763:
N675UA sked to exit HKG 2794/30Jun, High J Polaris/PE, not shown on seat map yet. Would be quickest mod at 41 days. Do not see another unit sked into HKG at this point.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:16 pm

UAX Update:

CR5:
N163GJ exited AMA paint in new livery, ferried to STL for CR5 conversion
N157GJ ferried FTW for paint

E175SC:
N606UX delivered to ExpressJet (new livery)
N607UX delivered to ExpressJet (new livery)
 
jayunited
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:56 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
772:
N218UA now sked to exit XMN 2749/28Jun with Polaris/PE confirmed, will operate 896/28Jun
N792UA sked to enter XMN 2750/28Jun, this unit already has Polaris, maint visit? Takes 772PW Polaris mod line to zero?


Calpsafltskeds I appreciate all the hard work you put into this thread keeping up with the entire fleet can't be easy especially when the information you put on here is heavily dependent on people at Willis Tower getting it right.

I'm not sure who is in charge of keeping up with and updating the 77E Polaris schedule. They just released yet another update 6 days after the last update and as you accurately reported at the time N792UA was scheduled to enter XMN on June 28th. That didn't happen and now with the latest update/revision N792UA will remain in service and not visit XMN even though it was on the schedule.

Now N218UA is schedule to exit XMN with Polaris/PE on July 4th as UA2750 and taking its place will be N220UA. N220UA is now scheduled to operate UA895 July 2nd, then UA2799 on July 4th.

I understand schedule changes as a result of mechanical issues we saw this happen with the IPTE 763s, but this is different. Whoever is updating the 77E Polaris/PE schedule should double check and triple check their work before they send out these updates because the last 2 or 3 updates have been wrong and needed revisions, even the revisions needed revisions. What is not known or was not included in this latest revision was if N220UA is going in for Polaris/PE or just a simple maintenance visit. Hopefully they get these revisions sorted out quickly because it enough to make your head spin.
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:18 am

319:
N837UA - Suffered damage during an emergency at EWR on 29-June. Will likely be at EWR for the next several weeks while repairs are made.

738:
N24212 - Confirmed exit from SFO on 3-June/2748

763:
N684UA - Scheduled to exit MCO on 1-Jul/2755 after emergency exit door repairs
 
N649DL
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:43 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I don't get why UA started the GE772 mod before the PW772s are completed and especially having more GE units in mod over the summer. If all crews are merged, wouldn't UA want to knock out the PW772s first with the 8 across Business seats. Beside better Business seats, the GE units also have higher max TOW.

Maybe there's a maintenance element that requires the PW units to get to XMN?

Could HKG start doing the PW units? You'd think once stripped, there shouldn't be much difference in either interior.


I agree, but I would think the big time issue is the GE90 777s fly super long haul routes with high utilization. They are now even flying ORD to Asia since the 744 retirements and the 773ER replacements out of EWR.

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