unitedewr737 wrote:

I don’t know how many of you follow Zach Honig of The Points Guy on Instagram, but I noticed on his story that he was flying on a 737 with the new first class seats. I’m pretty sure it was a 737-700 because those are the only 737s that have gotten the new seats but it got me wondering does UA plan on retrofitting the domestic first seats anytime soon on their 737-800 or 900s? Many are really old, look tired and are very uncomfortable. I flew in the new first class seats a couple days ago on an a319 and I felt like it was night and day, much cleaner, looked great, and were very comfortable.

The First Class seat on the 737-800’s stick out like a pigeon dropping on a wedding dress. I have asked about this a few times before getting a firm answer- which I assume is true as the person who explained it seemed to really know the history.
It was a while ago, so if I am remembering wrong I apologize; but had something to do with a time period when CO did not have the money to buy many mainline aircraft but needed them, and ordered the 738’s. They had to select the most inexpensive off the shelf domestic F seat. (Yes, it’s very uncomfortable and ugly) Not sure, but by the time CO had the money the 737-900s were ordered with a much better off the shelf First Class seat. And the 900 (while still inconsistent is much better than the 800)
United must have a big fleet of the 737-800’s because they are everywhere throughout the domestic system- and I will avoid them if I can, take an earlier or later flight or different route, or fly E+ because the 737-800 F seat will land you in a chiropractor’s office!
On the bright side: I LOVE the NEW domestic First Class seat. (Q: How does it compare to the Premium Economy seat? Do the PE seats have that forward sliding bottom cushion?) The forward sliding butt cushion really adds a lot to the recline, great headrest, the power and stowage under it is perfectly designed, the slot for your laptop is very cool (although I’m afraid I’ll forget my computer in it) and tablet holder on the tray table is great- plus I think they look beautiful, ESPECIALLY with the new bulkheads which are only on the refurbished used Airbuses. IMHO, if I was Oscar I would purge those 738 F seats ASAP!

As much as I love the new interiors ala: used Airbuses, I will admit (from a purely nostalgic standpoint) the lavatories with the OLD UA silver, blue & maroon pussy willow wallpaper reminds me of the old “connoisseur class” days!
I have read that “ONE DAY” the 737-8/900’s will get the new First seat (which is a bespoke design by PriestmanGoode for United) but I haven’t a clue when.

CALTECH wrote:

GmoneyCO wrote:

Any news regarding the used 73G that was slated to be picked up from Copa?

So far all info, do not know date of induction yet........

Nose#....Type.............MFG#.....N #....Fuse #....Year Built..............Fmr Operator
0755 ......737-7V3.......29360 ...TBD...1644........2002.....................HP-1528/ COPA S2-AHC / ILFC

Last I heard this aircraft is not going on the OP Spec for operation, but would be parts out.

CONTACREW wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

Boeing12345 wrote:

The 737-10 are 751, 752, 753 and still about 100 on order. First one expected around April/May of 2020.

The 737-9 order was reduced last year from 61 but I don't recall the number now, maybe 30 or 35 total.

The 737-8's are picked up from a lease company and I believe about 20 on order right now with first one delivering Feb of 2020.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but it's all wrong. First, United's 737-10 is not expected until Q4 of 2020. Next, UA recently added to their order of Max 9's, bringing the total from 61 to 85. And finally, UA has no Max 8's on order. But if you do have a source for your information it would be appreciated.

CALTECH and I believe Boeing12345 both work for UA so yes their information is legit.

Thanks, at least some people understand how this works. Caltech posted same info for 737-MAX MSN, CEC, data that I have seen as well.

Boeing12345 wrote:

CALTECH wrote:

GmoneyCO wrote:

Any news regarding the used 73G that was slated to be picked up from Copa?

So far all info, do not know date of induction yet........

Nose#....Type.............MFG#.....N #....Fuse #....Year Built..............Fmr Operator
0755 ......737-7V3.......29360 ...TBD...1644........2002.....................HP-1528/ COPA S2-AHC / ILFC

Last I heard this aircraft is not going on the OP Spec for operation, but would be parts out.

It would be interesting if it was parted out. The aircraft would be the newest of the 73G fleet by a healthy margin (2005 build per Planespotters even though CALTECH shows 2002). The aircraft does have a bit of a storied past. Copa from 2005 to 2012. Eznis Airways in Mongolia for ~5 months before being returned to ILFC for ~8 months before it went to Regent Airways in Bangladesh. It's been stored since April in France.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I’ve noticed UA has a one off flight August 29 from IAH to MSN. What’s up with that? A repositioning?

I believe it’s for a company called Epic based in Verona, WI near Madison.
I think they do some kind of medical research?
Pretty sure UA has a contract with them.
I think they do SFO to MSN with mainline and up gauge ORD to more mainline for some event they have.

Planeboy17 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I’ve noticed UA has a one off flight August 29 from IAH to MSN. What’s up with that? A repositioning?

I believe it’s for a company called Epic based in Verona, WI near Madison.
I think they do some kind of medical research?
Pretty sure UA has a contract with them.
I think they do SFO to MSN with mainline and up gauge ORD to more mainline for some event they have.

Epic makes one of the leading electronic medical record and billing systems. They have a sizable staff of implementation consultants to help hospitals and health systems with implementations, upgrades, etc. Their annual users group meeting is scheduled to end on the 29th (https://ugm.epic.com/). The one-off from IAH to MSN is likely to bring folks back to IAH from the conference. I imagine there is a similar flight setup for the 25th to bring folks to the conference as well.

GmoneyCO wrote:

Planeboy17 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I’ve noticed UA has a one off flight August 29 from IAH to MSN. What’s up with that? A repositioning?

I believe it’s for a company called Epic based in Verona, WI near Madison.
I think they do some kind of medical research?
Pretty sure UA has a contract with them.
I think they do SFO to MSN with mainline and up gauge ORD to more mainline for some event they have.

Epic makes one of the leading electronic medical record and billing systems. They have a sizable staff of implementation consultants to help hospitals and health systems with implementations, upgrades, etc. Their annual users group meeting is scheduled to end on the 29th (https://ugm.epic.com/). The one-off from IAH to MSN is likely to bring folks back to IAH from the conference. I imagine there is a similar flight setup for the 25th to bring folks to the conference as well.

Thank you for the information.
I was too lazy to look it up.

UAX Update:

CR2:
N862AS has left ExpressJet and is now flying UAX as Skywest
N870AS has left ExpressJet and is now flying UAX as Skywest

N837UA should be back in service Monday June 8. Scheduled to operate 1682 EWR-DFW that day

Prior to creating this thread I was lead to believe that UA had 85 737-9's and 100 737-10s on order. But after reviewing their Wikipedia page (I know, not a reliable source), and reading their Network thread, I am seeing that they now have 20 737-8's, 35 737-9's, and 100 737-10's on order. I am having a hard time believing this because United planned to up capacity, but now they are cutting orders? Can anyone verify this switch-up?

Is this in reference to the 737 Max?

FlyThiz wrote:

Is this in reference to the 737 Max?

Yes, in this post I am referring to the 737 Max's as the -8, -9, -10's.

I'll go with 'I doubt it.' The 2012 order was for -9s. The 2017 conversion announcement was for -10s.

UA - unlike DL and AA - does not detail purchase commitments by type and year of delivery in the Annual Report.

Yes there are -8’s due to be delivered, but the number is not published anywhere so I don’t know whether it was an add on or a conversion. I remember being surprised when I heard it from someone “in the know” because I hadn’t remembered hearing about the -8’s coming up to that point.

This was discussed in the United Fleet/Network thread. The tail numbers for the first four 737-8s have already been assigned.

Cmac787 wrote:

N837UA should be back in service Monday June 8. Scheduled to operate 1682 EWR-DFW that day

This aircraft is not even close to flying. They still can't get the hydraulic systems to function properly, and the left gear is half disassembled.

Cmac787 wrote:

N837UA should be back in service Monday June 8. Scheduled to operate 1682 EWR-DFW that day

Beyond what KVH68 said, they have been "scheduling" this aircraft since the crash. I won't believe that it is ready to enter service again until we see a test flight.

FlyThiz wrote:

Is this in reference to the 737 Max?

Considering the OP asked about 737-8s and the 737-8 is a 737 Max, I would say yes this is in reference to the 737 Max.

KVH68 wrote:

Cmac787 wrote:

N837UA should be back in service Monday June 8. Scheduled to operate 1682 EWR-DFW that day

This aircraft is not even close to flying. They still can't get the hydraulic systems to function properly, and the left gear is half disassembled.

This is the report of the incident at EWR:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c9cad94&opt=0

I’m looking into European flights in July, August and early October from EWR. Many destinations I was looking into for July and August, many (not all) 763s were refurbished Polaris aircraft and 78X. For once I felt the scales had started to tip in the true Polaris cabin. GVA was one indicator!
Then I check early October to the the same destinations and everything went back to Diamond BF except LHR. (I did not search everything but a lot)
So, if UA is taking refurbished WB (especially 763s) off high premium routes (except LHR) after summer? If so where are they being flown to in the fall? I get the 772s can be placed on Pacific routes, but why am I finding so many EWR to Europe destinations going back to the old configuration.
Last: why is Madrid always a High Density 772? I’d rather hop over to someplace else to fly home.
Last question, promise: it seems like on UA.com other Star carriers are not nearly as shown as options. I get Lufthansa, but beyond that there are not many Star options over the water. Maybe some Air Canada, but RARELY LX, TP, Brussels, SAS? (Ok, Brussels may not fly to EWR)
Let me answer my own question: UA Metal over water for exception of LH? So, are prices for Polars (biz class) more or less the same as TP, LX, SAS?

VC10er wrote:

Last question, promise: it seems like on UA.com other Star carriers are not nearly as shown as options. I get Lufthansa, but beyond that there are not many Star options over the water. Maybe some Air Canada, but RARELY LX, TP, Brussels, SAS? (Ok, Brussels may not fly to EWR)

Wouldn't only UA code-share Star Alliance flights show up on UA.com? If there are other Star Alliance carriers flying without UA code-share flight #s, then they surely woudn't show up! At least that's how it is with DL.com with other SkyTeam airlines. The only exception being flights on VS, which are code-shared to/from the US, and which isn't a ST member, but is owned 49% by DL.

VC10er wrote:

I’m looking into European flights in July, August and early October from EWR. Many destinations I was looking into for July and August, many (not all) 763s were refurbished Polaris aircraft and 78X. For once I felt the scales had started to tip in the true Polaris cabin. GVA was one indicator!
Then I check early October to the the same destinations and everything went back to Diamond BF except LHR. (I did not search everything but a lot)
So, if UA is taking refurbished WB (especially 763s) off high premium routes (except LHR) after summer? If so where are they being flown to in the fall? I get the 772s can be placed on Pacific routes, but why am I finding so many EWR to Europe destinations going back to the old configuration.

The placeholders in the schedule is the old layout. United isn’t un-configuring Polaris-equipped airplanes.

codc10 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

I’m looking into European flights in July, August and early October from EWR. Many destinations I was looking into for July and August, many (not all) 763s were refurbished Polaris aircraft and 78X. For once I felt the scales had started to tip in the true Polaris cabin. GVA was one indicator!
Then I check early October to the the same destinations and everything went back to Diamond BF except LHR. (I did not search everything but a lot)
So, if UA is taking refurbished WB (especially 763s) off high premium routes (except LHR) after summer? If so where are they being flown to in the fall? I get the 772s can be placed on Pacific routes, but why am I finding so many EWR to Europe destinations going back to the old configuration.

The placeholders in the schedule is the old layout. United isn’t un-configuring Polaris-equipped airplanes.

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.
I totally understand swaps. I understand that I could buy a Polaris ticket, choose my seat based on a NEW Polaris seat map, and find out upon boarding (or maybe a pushed text notification) that the equipment changed. I would not be happy about it, but I don’t blame UA, they are only part of the way refurbishing and swaps happen.
But, I also agree with their strategy of putting as many new Polaris configuration aircraft to LHR. If I’m not mistaken, all the LHR flights from EWR are NEW Polaris except for the morning daylight flight.
Given my history of zillions of LHR flights over decades, United has/had a really horrible reputation in the UK.

(On that note) Sadly, I do not go to London as much as I used to. United historically did NOT advertise in London very much at all (once I saw a Battleship Grey United London taxi and thought I was hallucinating!) although UA had many frequencies and served a number of US destinations nonstop- BA served the same destinations as well. I can only think of 3 small-short moments in 30 years when UA had something to boast in London: FIRST 777, first US airline with lie flat J seats, the opening of the new nice lounge. Other than that, ALL my UK clients wondered why the heck I always flew United. Today is there any movement in UA’s UK’s reputation given Polaris and expanded service, etc?

When are the conversions of the RJ 200s start, these birds are in horrible shape and the dirtiest looking birds I have been in.

VC10er wrote:

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.

That's not entirely correct, UA has dedicated 772 routes with new Polaris seats (SFO-PEK, IAD-BRU/CDG for example). The only dedicated routes are those that UA is selling premium economy, because a flight with premium economy means it will also have new Polaris seats. For all other flights, UA defaults to the old seat maps because seat counts are the same (on 772 or 763) and if they swap with a retrofitted aircraft, J passengers will get new seats, and some Y passengers will get lucky and get a free premium economy seat, while others on 772 suffer in 3-4-3.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

When are the conversions of the RJ 200s start, these birds are in horrible shape and the dirtiest looking birds I have been in.

I think the CRJ-200s just get parked at end of life and then they pull more of them out of the desert.

The CRJ-700s have started to be converted to CRJ-550s. Those should nice.

VC10er wrote:

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.
I totally understand swaps. I understand that I could buy a Polaris ticket, choose my seat based on a NEW Polaris seat map, and find out upon boarding (or maybe a pushed text notification) that the equipment changed. I would not be happy about it, but I don’t blame UA, they are only part of the way refurbishing and swaps happen.
But, I also agree with their strategy of putting as many new Polaris configuration aircraft to LHR. If I’m not mistaken, all the LHR flights from EWR are NEW Polaris except for the morning daylight flight.
Given my history of zillions of LHR flights over decades, United has/had a really horrible reputation in the UK.

(On that note) Sadly, I do not go to London as much as I used to. United historically did NOT advertise in London very much at all (once I saw a Battleship Grey United London taxi and thought I was hallucinating!) although UA had many frequencies and served a number of US destinations nonstop- BA served the same destinations as well. I can only think of 3 small-short moments in 30 years when UA had something to boast in London: FIRST 777, first US airline with lie flat J seats, the opening of the new nice lounge. Other than that, ALL my UK clients wondered why the heck I always flew United. Today is there any movement in UA’s UK’s reputation given Polaris and expanded service, etc?

What they are saying is this if you go to United.com and look at the seat map you will notice for the 763's there are two seat map configurations 30J 184Y. This seat map is the same for both standard Polaris and the old Diamond 763's. For now UA uses the old Diamond seat map as the standard seat map for all 763 flights. As more of the old diamond 763s are converted into 76Ls the default seat map will change and to show Polaris/PE. But for now you if you are booking your flight in advance and its on a 763 the only seat map you will see is the Diamond 763 seat map. Also for now the only route the 76Ls are being used on on a permanent basis is EWR-LHR-EWR. UA has not yet announced the other routes that will permanently see this seating arrangement. As more 76Ls roll out of HKG I'm sure UA will announce other 76L routes.
Its no different than the Polaris 77Es, if you were to book ORD-NRT, ORD-PVG, ORD-FRA, or ORD-MUC the default seat map you will see is the IPTE seat map even though UA has passed the halfway point with the PW 77Es there is still a chance that your flight will still be operated with the IPTE seating arrangement and not Polaris. Routes that are Polaris on the 77E permanently are reflected as such and were announced in Debember 2018.
According to the lastest Polaris/PE installation update, the 763s should be done during winter (mid/late February) 2020. The last IPTE 77E should go in for Polaris/PE installation late January early Feburary 2020, and the last Diamond GE 77E should be going in by May 2020. Meaning that between March and May of 2020 all Diamond and IPTE 763s, and 77Es will either have Polaris/PE installed or currently going through the modification process. By May 2020, if the schedule holds the entire 763, 77E, 77W, and 78X fleets will be done or in modification meaning all revenue flights on these types will have Polaris/PE and the 788 and 789 fleet should be completed or in modification by the end of November 2020.

I get it now, except for one thing, and maybe I was temporarily insane? I looked into a number of cities in continental Europe and saw a NEW POLARIS map to GVA on a 763 TWICE and shouted “FINALLY!” - I looked at quite a number of dates in July and August and I cannot recall which it was. Then I looked at GVA first week of October and got the old diamond configuration?
Now, I may not know nearly as much as you guys, but I do this all the time-ALL THE TIME especially GVA, and generally at 150,000+ miles a year. So, while entirely possible, I messed something up. Last night I’d have sworn under torture that I saw what I saw.
I could spend the next few hours retracing my steps, but it’s not worth it.
I think what I’ll do for another 6 months to a year, go through Frankfurt on the 787-10, go to my 2 different cities and fly back from wherever.
Thanks so much gang!

VC10er wrote:

I get it now, except for one thing, and maybe I was temporarily insane? I looked into a number of cities in continental Europe and saw a NEW POLARIS map to GVA on a 763 TWICE and shouted “FINALLY!” - I looked at quite a number of dates in July and August and I cannot recall which it was. Then I looked at GVA first week of October and got the old diamond configuration?

On a few of my reservations to Europe and back, United has changed planes more than once from a Polaris to a Diamond aircraft or vice-versa. So I'd say that such changes are not unheard of.

VC10er wrote:

I get it now, except for one thing, and maybe I was temporarily insane? I looked into a number of cities in continental Europe and saw a NEW POLARIS map to GVA on a 763 TWICE and shouted “FINALLY!” - I looked at quite a number of dates in July and August and I cannot recall which it was. Then I looked at GVA first week of October and got the old diamond configuration?
Now, I may not know nearly as much as you guys, but I do this all the time-ALL THE TIME especially GVA, and generally at 150,000+ miles a year. So, while entirely possible, I messed something up. Last night I’d have sworn under torture that I saw what I saw.
I could spend the next few hours retracing my steps, but it’s not worth it.
I think what I’ll do for another 6 months to a year, go through Frankfurt on the 787-10, go to my 2 different cities and fly back from wherever.
Thanks so much gang!

Some routes are fixed and some seem to be random. I flew IAH-GRU and it switched to Polaris two days before departure. IAH-LIM has seen it more regularly but it’s still not constant.

Maybe it’s a good idea to mix some up? Many people have been hearing about it for YEARS but have yet to get one. Word of mouth is a powerful thing- a bunch of Brazilians in Rio or São Paulo or some Europeans get it a few times. It might start to feel like progress, a business dinner conversation in São Paulo like "Eu finalmente voei no novo Polaris da United e foi o melhor até agora - você não acreditaria na diferença!" (I finally flew in United’s new Polaris and it was the best yet- you wouldn’t believe the difference!)
In Geneva they would probably say: “J'ai piloté le nouveau United Polaris et c'était très bon et propre pour les Américains… même si le fromage était en caoutchouc, Ha” (the Swiss only laugh once)

N605UX(ExpressJet and United’s first E175 in the new colors) has its first scheduled revenue flights today 7/8. Starting off as UA4290 KIAH-KMSP.

UAX Update:

CR7:
N167GJ entered STL for CR5 conversion

CR5:
N159GJ entered FTW 7Jul for paint (new livery)
N157GJ exited FTW 7Jul in new livery, ferried TUS for CR5 interior

E175:
N605UX enters revenue service 8 July

In the quest to draw premium passengers, would UA ever configure an E170/75 in a uniquely high Premium configuration?
More F, larger E+ and small Y?
Can the mainline F seat (ala Airbuses) fit 2-2 or 2-1?

It is already in a high premium configuration

The fleet changes and fleet status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil

VC10er wrote:

codc10 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

I’m looking into European flights in July, August and early October from EWR. Many destinations I was looking into for July and August, many (not all) 763s were refurbished Polaris aircraft and 78X. For once I felt the scales had started to tip in the true Polaris cabin. GVA was one indicator!
Then I check early October to the the same destinations and everything went back to Diamond BF except LHR. (I did not search everything but a lot)
So, if UA is taking refurbished WB (especially 763s) off high premium routes (except LHR) after summer? If so where are they being flown to in the fall? I get the 772s can be placed on Pacific routes, but why am I finding so many EWR to Europe destinations going back to the old configuration.

The placeholders in the schedule is the old layout. United isn’t un-configuring Polaris-equipped airplanes.

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.
I totally understand swaps. I understand that I could buy a Polaris ticket, choose my seat based on a NEW Polaris seat map, and find out upon boarding (or maybe a pushed text notification) that the equipment changed. I would not be happy about it, but I don’t blame UA, they are only part of the way refurbishing and swaps happen.
But, I also agree with their strategy of putting as many new Polaris configuration aircraft to LHR. If I’m not mistaken, all the LHR flights from EWR are NEW Polaris except for the morning daylight flight.
Given my history of zillions of LHR flights over decades, United has/had a really horrible reputation in the UK.

(On that note) Sadly, I do not go to London as much as I used to. United historically did NOT advertise in London very much at all (once I saw a Battleship Grey United London taxi and thought I was hallucinating!) although UA had many frequencies and served a number of US destinations nonstop- BA served the same destinations as well. I can only think of 3 small-short moments in 30 years when UA had something to boast in London: FIRST 777, first US airline with lie flat J seats, the opening of the new nice lounge. Other than that, ALL my UK clients wondered why the heck I always flew United. Today is there any movement in UA’s UK’s reputation given Polaris and expanded service, etc?

Ugh what? They advertised London a ton and flew to several cities from London with multiple frequency. They were for a long time the only carrier who flew to Heathrow exclusively, never bothered with Gatwick.

UAX Update:

CR5:
N605QX has been re-registered as N504GJ. Ferried YUL as part of CR5 conversion certification

audidudi wrote:

Wouldn't only UA code-share Star Alliance flights show up on UA.com? If there are other Star Alliance carriers flying without UA code-share flight #s, then they surely woudn't show up! At least that's how it is with DL.com with other SkyTeam airlines.

United.com and the United mobile app sell all UA-coded UA-operated, all UA-coded Star-operated, all UA-coded OA-operated, some Star-coded Star-operated, and some OA-coded OA-operated flights. You can buy more than 80 airlines on United.com and the United mobile app, many of whom only have interline – not codeshare – agreements. If you really work hard at it, you can get United.com and the United mobile app to sell you AS, AA, DL, and HA flights.

UA444 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

codc10 wrote:

The placeholders in the schedule is the old layout. United isn’t un-configuring Polaris-equipped airplanes.

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.
I totally understand swaps. I understand that I could buy a Polaris ticket, choose my seat based on a NEW Polaris seat map, and find out upon boarding (or maybe a pushed text notification) that the equipment changed. I would not be happy about it, but I don’t blame UA, they are only part of the way refurbishing and swaps happen.
But, I also agree with their strategy of putting as many new Polaris configuration aircraft to LHR. If I’m not mistaken, all the LHR flights from EWR are NEW Polaris except for the morning daylight flight.
Given my history of zillions of LHR flights over decades, United has/had a really horrible reputation in the UK.

(On that note) Sadly, I do not go to London as much as I used to. United historically did NOT advertise in London very much at all (once I saw a Battleship Grey United London taxi and thought I was hallucinating!) although UA had many frequencies and served a number of US destinations nonstop- BA served the same destinations as well. I can only think of 3 small-short moments in 30 years when UA had something to boast in London: FIRST 777, first US airline with lie flat J seats, the opening of the new nice lounge. Other than that, ALL my UK clients wondered why the heck I always flew United. Today is there any movement in UA’s UK’s reputation given Polaris and expanded service, etc?

Ugh what? They advertised London a ton and flew to several cities from London with multiple frequency. They were for a long time the only carrier who flew to Heathrow exclusively, never bothered with Gatwick.

I don’t know- I NEVER saw United advertising from 1991 to about 2015, except for that one Battleship London taxi, and for all those years I went to London once a month for 3 days to a week! And I used to actually look for any United ads,, in part because I worked for the biggest advertising conglomerate. BA, VA, Singapore, Emirates- tons! LCCs tons. British Midland TONS!
I used to figure that the Brits hated United so much that they didn’t bother!

BACKGROUND
United mainline has reduced operations in Pennsylvania so that it has about the same carrying capacity as Spirit and Frontier in the state. American Airlines and American Eagle carry well over 50% of Pennsylvania capacity, with Southwest a distant #2 and Delta an even more distant #3. United operations consist primarily of 600 takeoffs from the two major airports on 10 routes, 4 of which are under 700 miles.


350 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PHL on United mainline
130 ORD 678 miles 163 average number of seats per takeoff
74 IAH 1,325 137
84 DEN 1,558 155
62 SFO 2,521 149

255 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PIT on United mainline
31 IAD 182 miles 149 average number of seats per takeoff (has become a UAX route since December)
15 EWR 319 miles 142
74 ORD 413 miles 143
30 IAH 1,117 145
61 DEN 1,290 150
44 SFO 2,254 134

United is in fierce competition at PHL
A four-way competition against American, Southwest, Frontier for PHL to Denver.
A three-way competition from PHL to Houston–Intercontinental against American and Frontier.
A three-way competition from PHL to San Francisco against American and Alaska
A two-way competition from PHL to ORD with American.

Of course Southwest is flying into Houston Hobby an Chicago Midway from Philadelphia.

QUESTION
PHL is a major airport, but it is only 80 air miles from EWR. How long will United keep trying to slug it out against so much competition? Do you envision United cutting routes or frequencies, or do you think they will stay at the level they are at?

I who knows nothing about fleet planning, would make a guess based on your thorough background: If UA has enough flights into a territory that is so dominated by others, I would think UA puts enough of their own metal (mainline or express) to help satisfy UA FF and fight elsewhere where they can actually make a dent.
It sounds a lot like Miami and UA, I go to Miami often, I always fly UA. There are “just enough” frequencies to make them convenient enough from NYC. But I always hate my return flight because there are just a few gates split between G & H in fairly unattractive concourses at MIA.
Given Miami is often called NYC’s 6th borough, between AA, there is so many other choices, I wish UA would do more at that “out post”- but I also get why they don’t.
I’m also under the assumption that UA needs those 150+ new 737MAX’s because UA simply allowed domestic flying to fall way behind DL & AA.
In fact, off season UA must have the fewest worst timed flights to Ft Meyers.
Perhaps there are just some places that UA needs to not focus on until they have the aircraft?
That is just me guessing!

PacoMartin wrote:

BACKGROUND
United mainline has reduced operations in Pennsylvania so that it has about the same carrying capacity as Spirit and Frontier in the state. American Airlines and American Eagle carry well over 50% of Pennsylvania capacity, with Southwest a distant #2 and Delta an even more distant #3. United operations consist primarily of 600 takeoffs from the two major airports on 10 routes, 4 of which are under 700 miles.


350 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PHL on United mainline
130 ORD 678 miles 163 average number of seats per takeoff
74 IAH 1,325 137
84 DEN 1,558 155
62 SFO 2,521 149

255 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PIT on United mainline
31 IAD 182 miles 149 average number of seats per takeoff (has become a UAX route since December)
15 EWR 319 miles 142
74 ORD 413 miles 143
30 IAH 1,117 145
61 DEN 1,290 150
44 SFO 2,254 134

United is in fierce competition at PHL
A four-way competition against American, Southwest, Frontier for PHL to Denver.
A three-way competition from PHL to Houston–Intercontinental against American and Frontier.
A three-way competition from PHL to San Francisco against American and Alaska
A two-way competition from PHL to ORD with American.

Of course Southwest is flying into Houston Hobby an Chicago Midway from Philadelphia.

QUESTION
PHL is a major airport, but it is only 80 air miles from EWR. How long will United keep trying to slug it out against so much competition? Do you envision United cutting routes or frequencies, or do you think they will stay at the level they are at?

Why is the state a relevant unit of analysis here, as opposed to the airport catchment areas?

And why focus only on mainline flying and not the entire scope of an airline's business?

Distance from EWR has little affect on this. UA will never stop service to those airports from their hubs. Service at PHL is roughly the same at every hub in the USA which is dominated by one carrier and I would consider PHL a second tier hub - that being one carrier dominates the hub with other airlines either providing spokes to their own hubs or low-cost carriers trying to pull some O&D traffic by low fares. Most hubs I list below have significant O&D to UA hubs, so service is operated so the Mileage Plus members have service on UA to those large cities from their home airport.
I would guess the only reason UA doesn't fly PHL-EWR/IAD is the short driving distance for locals and connections don't pencil out vs. AA's non-stop service from PHL to just about anywhere.

There are really different markets/passengers on lets say a ORD-ATL service flown by UA, DL and low cost carriers. Most likely UA flies something like a DLH-ORD-ATL passenger plus ORD based ATL passengers while DL flies a Montgomery AL-ATL-ORD passenger plus ATL based ORD passengers - low cost carrier fights it out to gain ATL-ORD passengers who don't care about mileage programs.
If you did the same analysis for Colorado you'd find UA in roughly the same position as American in PA.
For the same reasons UA will never pull services from MSP/SLC/LAX/SEA/PDX/PHX/DFW/MIA/FLL/ATL/CLT/BOS/BWI/BNA/MEM/STL/MCI/CLE/DTW/MSP and maybe a couple more airport that all are hubs or large focus cities for one or more airlines.
UA is the most hub centric carrier in the US. I would hope when UA picks up more aircraft that they would start connecting large cities to large cities that are not UA hubs, but where UA has a decent market share overall. Markets like MCO-BOS. UA does operate in 9 of the top 10 markets - the one missing is MCO-ATL and DL is dominant and its a shorter haul.

PacoMartin wrote:

BACKGROUND
United mainline has reduced operations in Pennsylvania so that it has about the same carrying capacity as Spirit and Frontier in the state. American Airlines and American Eagle carry well over 50% of Pennsylvania capacity, with Southwest a distant #2 and Delta an even more distant #3. United operations consist primarily of 600 takeoffs from the two major airports on 10 routes, 4 of which are under 700 miles.


350 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PHL on United mainline
130 ORD 678 miles 163 average number of seats per takeoff
74 IAH 1,325 137
84 DEN 1,558 155
62 SFO 2,521 149

255 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PIT on United mainline
31 IAD 182 miles 149 average number of seats per takeoff (has become a UAX route since December)
15 EWR 319 miles 142
74 ORD 413 miles 143
30 IAH 1,117 145
61 DEN 1,290 150
44 SFO 2,254 134

United is in fierce competition at PHL
A four-way competition against American, Southwest, Frontier for PHL to Denver.
A three-way competition from PHL to Houston–Intercontinental against American and Frontier.
A three-way competition from PHL to San Francisco against American and Alaska
A two-way competition from PHL to ORD with American.

Of course Southwest is flying into Houston Hobby an Chicago Midway from Philadelphia.

QUESTION
PHL is a major airport, but it is only 80 air miles from EWR. How long will United keep trying to slug it out against so much competition? Do you envision United cutting routes or frequencies, or do you think they will stay at the level they are at?

There is no point having this debate unless you are willing to provide statistics that look at the entire network not just mainline. UA+UAX and in this case UAs and Amtrak's agreement to feed passengers between PHL-EWR would be a start. Also number of departures isn't really a useful metric...seats available or passengers carried would be more accurate.

VC10er wrote:

UA444 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

So, what you’re saying is; if I see a 763 seat map with a NEW Polaris seat map, it could still potentially be a “scheduled” old configuration? Or, I select a seat from an OLD configuration seat map that is actually a “scheduled” NEW Polaris configuration?
Meaning, basically, the seat map I see is arbitrary?
That means the ONLY way to be certain is fly a 777-300 or 787-10.
Because recently I have come across “some” 772s now in new Polaris, and from ORD.
I totally understand swaps. I understand that I could buy a Polaris ticket, choose my seat based on a NEW Polaris seat map, and find out upon boarding (or maybe a pushed text notification) that the equipment changed. I would not be happy about it, but I don’t blame UA, they are only part of the way refurbishing and swaps happen.
But, I also agree with their strategy of putting as many new Polaris configuration aircraft to LHR. If I’m not mistaken, all the LHR flights from EWR are NEW Polaris except for the morning daylight flight.
Given my history of zillions of LHR flights over decades, United has/had a really horrible reputation in the UK.

(On that note) Sadly, I do not go to London as much as I used to. United historically did NOT advertise in London very much at all (once I saw a Battleship Grey United London taxi and thought I was hallucinating!) although UA had many frequencies and served a number of US destinations nonstop- BA served the same destinations as well. I can only think of 3 small-short moments in 30 years when UA had something to boast in London: FIRST 777, first US airline with lie flat J seats, the opening of the new nice lounge. Other than that, ALL my UK clients wondered why the heck I always flew United. Today is there any movement in UA’s UK’s reputation given Polaris and expanded service, etc?

Ugh what? They advertised London a ton and flew to several cities from London with multiple frequency. They were for a long time the only carrier who flew to Heathrow exclusively, never bothered with Gatwick.

I don’t know- I NEVER saw United advertising from 1991 to about 2015, except for that one Battleship London taxi, and for all those years I went to London once a month for 3 days to a week! And I used to actually look for any United ads,, in part because I worked for the biggest advertising conglomerate. BA, VA, Singapore, Emirates- tons! LCCs tons. British Midland TONS!
I used to figure that the Brits hated United so much that they didn’t bother!

That's your take-away from this? Because YOU didn't see them advertising, the Brits must hate them?
They also had an entire train painted in their livery. They launched the 777 from there. I believe it's also where the Star Alliance was launched from. There was no lack of investment in the London market. If there was and so many people hated them, then how has United been able to sustain such a large number of flights since 1991?

United1 wrote:

Also number of departures isn't really a useful metric...seats available or passengers carried would be more accurate.

350 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PHL on United mainline
130 ORD 678 miles 163 average number of seats per takeoff
74 IAH 1,325 137
84 DEN 1,558 155
62 SFO 2,521 149

255 takeoffs in DEC 2018 from PIT on United mainline
31 IAD 182 miles 149 average number of seats per takeoff (has become a UAX route since December)
15 EWR 319 miles 142
74 ORD 413 miles 143
30 IAH 1,117 145
61 DEN 1,290 150
44 SFO 2,254 134

= seats & passengers for the month of December 2018

PHL
ORD 21,136 16,832
IAH 10,109 8,378
DEN 13,006 10,938
SFO 9,230 6,754
PIT
IAD 4,628 2,700
EWR 2,132 1,293
ORD 10,606 7,764
IAH 4,338 2,892
DEN 9,167 8,375
SFO 5,896 4,973

United is in fierce competition at PHL
A four-way competition against American, Southwest, Frontier for PHL to Denver.
A three-way competition from PHL to Houston–Intercontinental against American and Frontier.
A three-way competition from PHL to San Francisco against American and Alaska
A two-way competition from PHL to ORD with American.
Of course Southwest is flying into Houston Hobby an Chicago Midway from Philadelphia.

United1 wrote:

There is no point having this debate unless you are willing to provide statistics that look at the entire network not just mainline. UA+UAX and in this case UAs and Amtrak's agreement to feed passengers between PHL-EWR would be a start.

No easy way to do that as BTS data is organized by airlines. Some regional airlines fly for more than one mainline airline.

flights - airline - number of seats | number of passengers for all of PA in December 2018
10,339 American Airlines Inc. 1,659,505 1,271,016
3,340 Southwest Airlines Co. 513,428 414,182
6,817 Piedmont Airlines 340,850 249,663
1,966 Delta Air Lines Inc. 289,334 219,138
3,769 Republic Airline 283,978 196,701
3,218 PSA Airlines Inc. 204,559 141,543
1,083 Spirit Air Lines 183,057 155,200
1,220 United Air Lines Inc. 182,175 140,971
869 Frontier Airlines Inc. 173,150 149,774
1,481 Endeavor Air Inc. 102,084 72,128
788 JetBlue Airways 87,600 65,419
1,159 SkyWest Airlines Inc. 66,894 49,693
341 Allegiant Air 57,726 49,838
903 Envoy Air 49,206 36,400
242 Alaska Airlines Inc. 39,467 32,814
741 Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp 37,050 29,753
456 Mesa Airlines Inc. 32,910 26,398
121 GoJet Airlines LLC d/b/a United Express 8,470 6,576


I am not sure how much information you need. PHL is a major airport completely dominated by American Airlines who flies a competing route to every single one of the four United destinations. In addition, there is more competition from other airlines, some of which are LCCs. American has flights to multiple European and Carribean destinations, so very few passengers will want to fly to Chicago or Washington DC just to fly to the same European destinations.

hereandthere41 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

UA444 wrote:

Ugh what? They advertised London a ton and flew to several cities from London with multiple frequency. They were for a long time the only carrier who flew to Heathrow exclusively, never bothered with Gatwick.

I don’t know- I NEVER saw United advertising from 1991 to about 2015, except for that one Battleship London taxi, and for all those years I went to London once a month for 3 days to a week! And I used to actually look for any United ads,, in part because I worked for the biggest advertising conglomerate. BA, VA, Singapore, Emirates- tons! LCCs tons. British Midland TONS!
I used to figure that the Brits hated United so much that they didn’t bother!

That's your take-away from this? Because YOU didn't see them advertising, the Brits must hate them?
They also had an entire train painted in their livery. They launched the 777 from there. I believe it's also where the Star Alliance was launched from. There was no lack of investment in the London market. If there was and so many people hated them, then how has United been able to sustain such a large number of flights since 1991?

You sound a bit hostile, have I irritated you? I’m assuming you are a United employee? Are you based in London? “That’s your take-away” are your words not mine. It was just a thought I had at the time, perhaps UA was fighting harder in the US for American passengers and didn’t want duke it out against BA/VA & AA. “I used to figure” is what I said, I guess I should have added “maybe”.
What I did know on a purely anecdotal level, was All (and I seriously mean all) my London counterparts at my company and UK clients was that they firmly believed any US airlines were bad and UA among the worst. (MAYBE, after PanAm perceptions changed? I often flew PA as a kid in coach, I couldn’t tell you if service up front was seen as exceptional?
When I grew up, and became a very heavy business flier I flew UNITED almost exclusively and the Brits would make fun of me! The sarcasm I endured! They used to say kindly like a Social Worker “Richard, it’s ok, you can fly BA or Virgin we won’t mind...please don’t feel like you MUST fly United”
But I had flown both BA & Virgin a number of times and I seriously hated the Virgin flip over seat. Sure, the Austin Powers Lounge was cool for 3-4 times. I was on the first 777 Flight to London, in First Class seat 1A. Before that it was all United 767s to London/Europe (747s to Asia). Why? because UNITED was home, they treated me as if I was their most important customer. I knew everyone from the RCC to FAs. On BA I was just 1 of 45/50 biz peeps on a 747 (ok the 747 was great!)
I did not know why I saw NO United advertising all those years and I looked for them. And, as an advertising executive I would know where to look for “outdoor” given how and where media dollars were spent- and to me, United was notably absent. It used to bum me out because I loved flying UA! The grey First Class recliner, with the sunset on grey in a carpet bulkheads, no it wasn’t “stylish” except for F on a 747.
I have a dear friend at Leo Burnett who is a top executive, her office is the size of a Starbucks. She was at Leo Burnett when Leo had United for many, many years. I will call her see if she can find out what the media spend or strategy was in the UK. I actually know the whole Rhapsody in Blue story. United bought it after TWA turned it down!
Even though I was in London once a month for about 2 decades, I did NOT live there, (I always stayed at the Sanderson) and in those days there was still a fair amount of TV ads for airlines, (unlike today). Perhaps UA were running a lot of TV in the UK that I didn’t ever get a chance to see.

I will say this: United’s reputation around the world is getting a lot better! I’ve met Germans who said that for a J fare, they prefer United (true) Polaris over Lufthansa- thats HUGE!

Your data is almost useless as it splits regional feed out so that you can't build an overall picture for any of the 3 network carriers. The likes of PSA and Endeavour are obvious, but it isn't clear how to allocate the traffic for OO, YX, YV etc.

But more to the point, your overall conclusion is inherently misguided as it is too focussed on the Pennsylvania market in isolation without looking at the big picture. Philadelphia in particular, and Pittsburgh as well, are major cities with a decent number of corporate headquarters, major officers etc. United has FFs in Chicago and Houston and San Francisco who need to visit these offices, and therefore serving a market as important as PHL is pretty much a necessity for United (and Delta). Being third or fourth on a 'state-wide' basis (which is a pretty useless metric) is not a matter of concern so long as they have adequate coverage to serve their FFs.

So what's the question? It seems to be a vague way of leading into asking whether UA will pull out of PHL or PIT (or MDT, ABE, ERI, etc...). The answer is no.

I would imagine that the PHL point of sale is comparatively weak for United in the same way that Delta is not strong in the Houston local market, or American is not a major player in Denver. Higher-yield traffic is probably inbound to PHL from areas of UA strength (hubs) where American is not a heavyweight. The story is the same for most US carriers in non-hub locations, but especially true of UA and AA.

While AA will undoubtedly capture the lion's share of high-yield traffic to markets it serves nonstop (the nonstop premium), United is a compelling option for one-stop service, especially to the Pacific, where AA's coverage is far less comprehensive.

As United continues to upgauge its domestic system, it will seek to recapture that "natural share" mentioned by Kirby when discussing capacity plans.