Boeing12345
Posts: 106
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
KVH68 wrote:
A United maintenance manager told a group of people that the 737s we are buying are coming from Southwest.


WN aircraft shortage is even worst than UA's do to the MAX grounding. Why would WN sale 737s to UA at a time when they (WN) need them most? Most aviation experts are saying the MAX more than likely will not fly until some time in 2020 and passengers should prepare themselves for higher than usual fare during the Holiday Season do to expected strong demand but less supply do to the MAX grounding. Perhaps the maintenance manager is right but I have my doubts seeing that deliveries are to commence in December 2019.



737-700's
There is a known delivery schedule but that might change as some of these might go into storage for a bit first. There is the possibility of two other -700's and one of these might be on property in September.

2019 1
2020 7
2021 10
2022 1


MSN's minus the two "extra"

32652
32653
32654
32656
32657
32660
32661
32662
32664
32665
32666
32667
32668
32670
32671
32673
32675
32677
32678
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:23 pm

Looking up all those MSNs, I get these operators:

32652 - Southwest via AirTran
32653 - Southwest via AirTran
32654 - Southwest via AirTran
32656 - Southwest via AirTran
32657 - Southwest via AirTran
32660 - Southwest via AirTran
32661 - Southwest via AirTran
32662 - Southwest via AirTran
32664 - Southwest via AirTran
32665 - Southwest via AirTran
32666 - Southwest via AirTran
32667 - Southwest via AirTran
32668 - Southwest via AirTran
32670 - Southwest via AirTran
32671 - Southwest via AirTran
32673 - Southwest via AirTran
32675 - Southwest via AirTran
32677 - Southwest via AirTran
32678 - Southwest via AirTran

All are 2005-2006 build frames.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:56 pm

adamblang wrote:
Looking up all those MSNs, I get these operators:

32652 - Southwest via AirTran
32653 - Southwest via AirTran
32654 - Southwest via AirTran
32656 - Southwest via AirTran
32657 - Southwest via AirTran
32660 - Southwest via AirTran
32661 - Southwest via AirTran
32662 - Southwest via AirTran
32664 - Southwest via AirTran
32665 - Southwest via AirTran
32666 - Southwest via AirTran
32667 - Southwest via AirTran
32668 - Southwest via AirTran
32670 - Southwest via AirTran
32671 - Southwest via AirTran
32673 - Southwest via AirTran
32675 - Southwest via AirTran
32677 - Southwest via AirTran
32678 - Southwest via AirTran

All are 2005-2006 build frames.


I am absolutely amazed WN is letting these 73Gs go, especially with the MAX situation. WN and UA/ CO have have a history of being cooperative towards each other.

There’s WN leaving IAH, UA giving their DAL gates to WN and when UA / CO announced their merger their voluntarily gave up pre merger UA’s EWR slots to WN. There have been a few others, CO traded LGA and DCA slots to FL for FL’s EWR slots.


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Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:03 pm

STT757 wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Looking up all those MSNs, I get these operators:

32652 - Southwest via AirTran
32653 - Southwest via AirTran
32654 - Southwest via AirTran
32656 - Southwest via AirTran
32657 - Southwest via AirTran
32660 - Southwest via AirTran
32661 - Southwest via AirTran
32662 - Southwest via AirTran
32664 - Southwest via AirTran
32665 - Southwest via AirTran
32666 - Southwest via AirTran
32667 - Southwest via AirTran
32668 - Southwest via AirTran
32670 - Southwest via AirTran
32671 - Southwest via AirTran
32673 - Southwest via AirTran
32675 - Southwest via AirTran
32677 - Southwest via AirTran
32678 - Southwest via AirTran

All are 2005-2006 build frames.


I am absolutely amazed WN is letting these 73Gs go, especially with the MAX situation. WN and UA/ CO have have a history of being cooperative towards each other.

There’s WN leaving IAH, UA giving their DAL gates to WN and when UA / CO announced their merger their voluntarily gave up pre merger UA’s EWR slots to WN. There have been a few others, CO traded LGA and DCA slots to FL for FL’s EWR slots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

WN paid UA 120 million for their 2 DAL gates.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:22 pm

STT757 wrote:
I am absolutely amazed WN is letting these 73Gs go, especially with the MAX situation.

I would hope the MAX situation is resolved by the time the bulk of the transfers happen in the 2020-2021 timeframe.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:33 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Seat maps for the reconfigured 788/789 via TPG:


https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-78 ... -retrofit/


I'm curious on why UA decreased the number of Econ+ seats on both the 788 and 789 with the new seatmap.......it'll make it harder to snatch a econ+ seat. UA was able to keep the same number of Polaris seats on the 789....but not the 788..............................hmm??
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Given such short timing, will UA be able to renovate the interiors of all these WN 73Gs to match UA’s current 73Gs with the new seats for First, matching slimlines for economy as well as the updated bulkheads, carpeting, lavs etc - like the new (used) Airbuses?

I could be wrong but I thought that the new United First Class seats were a unique, bespoke design from Priestman-Goode? If they are either enhanced versions of an off the self skeleton or 100% “new” I would assume UA has a very accurate number of seats they need and placed an order for. Can the seat manufacturers, the new bulkheads and everything be ramped up?
Also, one day the 737MAX will be approved to fly.?Will UA just keep these extra 73Gs even after the MAX’s start pouring in?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Ishrion
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:07 am

 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:31 am

xxcr wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Seat maps for the reconfigured 788/789 via TPG:


https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-78 ... -retrofit/


I'm curious on why UA decreased the number of Econ+ seats on both the 788 and 789 with the new seatmap.......it'll make it harder to snatch a econ+ seat. UA was able to keep the same number of Polaris seats on the 789....but not the 788..............................hmm??

How much revenue are they actually getting from E+ versus more E seats they can put in their place. Its simple economics.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:54 am

763:
N665UA sked to exit HKG 2783/24Jul in High J/PE configuration.
I don't see another unit sked to HKG at the moment. N685UA is still in HKG mod.

772:
N78003 exit from Polaris mod and N78004 entry have been delayed.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:31 pm

NOSE #........./TYPE.........../ FLEET CODE
0001-0022......777-224ER ....25
0051-0066 .....767-424 .........64
0101-0141 .....757-224 .........19
0201-0299 .....737-824 .........58 / 68 / 29
0401-0412 .....737-924 .........59 / 29
0413-0479 .....737-924ER ....60 / 29
0501-0542 .....737-824 .........58 / 68 / 29
0701-0750 .....737-724 .........57 / 65 / 29
0751-0752 .....737-71Q .........57 / 65 / 29
0753-0754 .....737-7V3 .........57 / 65 / 29
0801-0849 .....737-924ER ....60 / 29
0851-0859 .....757-324 .........53
0860-0871 .....757-33N ........53
0880-0899 .....737-924ER ....60 / 29
0901-0913 .....787-8 .............78
0950-0974 .....787-9 .............79
1001-1025 .....787-10 ...........10
2018-2029 .....777-222B .......27
2131-2152 .....777-322ER ....23
2368-2515 .....777-222A .......26
2704-2897 .....777-222B .......27
4001-4055 .....A319-131 .......17 / 31
4101-4173 .....A320-232 .......18 / 31
4214-4298 .....A320-232 .......18 / 31
4301-4320. ....A319-111 ........17 / 31
4615-4713 .....A320-232 ........18 / 31
4866-4899 .....A319-132 ........17 / 31
4901-4913 .....A320-232 ........18 / 31
5302-5997 .....757-222 ...........75
6441-6677 .....767-322 ...........63
6684-6686 .....767-3CB ..........63
7251-7500 .....737MAX-8 .......41 / 61
7501-7750 .....737MAX-9 .......42 / 61
7751-77XX ....737MAX-10 .....43 / 61
8404-8497 .....747-422 ...........74
The gun is a precious Symbol of Freedom
Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence of tyrants who disarm their citizens
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Seat maps for the reconfigured 788/789 via TPG:


https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-78 ... -retrofit/


I'm curious on why UA decreased the number of Econ+ seats on both the 788 and 789 with the new seatmap.......it'll make it harder to snatch a econ+ seat. UA was able to keep the same number of Polaris seats on the 789....but not the 788..............................hmm??

How much revenue are they actually getting from E+ versus more E seats they can put in their place. Its simple economics.


IMHO as the ex CEO of a major airline:
E+ is a great thing that UA have. But unfortunately I think many people who decide to pay more for it are doing so because regular Economy is so bad. IF paying more actually makes you look forward to the experience vs escaping a bad one the effects could actually have a win win effect. And I don’t think it would take that much to create a more profitable, reputation enhancing E+.
There are a thousand ideas already turn key. Additional amenities (eyeshades/ear plugs) bigger better pillows and thicker, softer blankets that don’t feel like they are made from recycled plastic...the ones that after opening the plastic bag are not all stuck together with static cling.
If “a good night’s sleep” what it’s all about, then do more than just 4-5 more inches. I am also sure that additional service from champagne, a special E* boxed meal and 2 chocolates or mints upon landing. Feeling a bit pampered would (should) generate pay off AND the added benefit of far less negative Social Media and more positive ones like “Wow, I just got back from X and United E+ actually made a big difference”
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Runway28L
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:55 pm

I'm currently seeing some Republic E170/175 equipment being shifted to IAD for W19 while Mesa is shifting some CRJ7 flying to IAH. I don't think YX has operated for United Express out of IAD for a few years now. Either way, there appears to be some movement planned for the regionals this upcoming winter.
 
SBAer
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Saw a random picture on Twitter of a flyover at Boeing Field from supposedly this past weekend, and there was a new livery on one of the 737s. Didn't think that was happening?

https://twitter.com/garyhe/status/11533 ... 65/photo/3
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:35 pm

SBAer wrote:
Saw a random picture on Twitter of a flyover at Boeing Field from supposedly this past weekend, and there was a new livery on one of the 737s. Didn't think that was happening?

https://twitter.com/garyhe/status/11533 ... 65/photo/3


There are multiple MAX 9s in the new livery, the rolled out awhilea go.
 
rjmf22
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:32 pm

Ishrion wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285514/united-airlines-w19-long-haul-changes-as-of-19jul19/

Aircraft changes on a few routes.


The article states that the 767-400ER will be replacing the 763 on many EWR/IAD-Europe routes. Where will the 763's go?
United Airlines
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:16 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285514/united-airlines-w19-long-haul-changes-as-of-19jul19/

Aircraft changes on a few routes.


The article states that the 767-400ER will be replacing the 763 on many EWR/IAD-Europe routes. Where will the 763's go?


For the most part it's just shuffling the existing routes a/c around. For example, 764's off of LHR routes will go to other TATL routes and the reconfigured 763's will cover off on the former 764 routes. ZRH is a good example of one where UA will swap 764 to 763. UA did also pick up 3 HA 763's which will be in service (1 is, 1 this week) soon. I'm not sure what year the 7x763 retirements will happen. I think MAN also goes year round wide body.
 
UALifer
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:21 pm

Looks like United scheduled a 788 ORD-OSH-ORD tomorrow for Airventure. Arrives 0900, departs 1800. Flight 2760.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:19 am

Why does Madrid seem to always be a HD 772? Is Madrid one of the lowest premium destinations?

I can easily survive in a window or aisle seat even if that ac is the worst of the lot, but it’s prices aren’t much different than anything else (for the most part)

Is this simply a temporary move as the 772s are busy flying the summer peak?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:08 am

The fleet changes post at the start of this thread has been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:37 am

763:
N664UA sked to enter HKG 2786/26Jul for High J Polaris/PE
 
n471wn
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:58 pm

I was one that doubted the 700’s were coming from WN and I was wrong. I am shocked at the deal and even though it was cut before the grounding I do hope that WN has a Plan C—their Plan B did not work.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:27 pm

Just saw the new livery in person the other day, when 267 diverted. Really like United on the Fuselage, the Blue cowlings and the swoop.

The tail however, just looks plain with the loss of the gold and white. Maybe the tail will grow on me.

Image
The gun is a precious Symbol of Freedom
Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence of tyrants who disarm their citizens
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:51 pm

I actually saw the first one at EWR. This is now my professional opinion: I went from being a bit disappointed (though my expectations were under control) to starting to pretty much like it (Except for the wave which I hated immediately: it was great on 787s as it mirrored the lines of a 787 and strategically signaled “Dreamliner”). I started liking the new livery better in air to air shots because it downplayed the wave, but I was terribly DISAPPOINTED when I saw it in person. NOT due to the quality of design, but what it “said” or its “image” as it reflects the new UNITED Eg: I was first flipped out over Lufthansa taking the iconic yellow away, then seeing that new Lufthansa, I totally got it, she actually looked much more premium and sophisticated (worth shooting the sacred cow yellow)

Perhaps it’s the 738 (not one of my favorite airplanes aesthetically) But “strategically” it looked TOTALLY off the path UNITED is taking the brand. I am not evaluating the “design” but the message it sends. So much of everything “NEW UNITED” that’s been done “so far” is beautiful, classy and premium and well executed. I had imagined that Polaris’ essence would be felt even though basic economy. The brightness and boldness of this livery says friendly approachable=LCC.
Example: Going from a Polaris Lounge to Polaris seat, or “New” United Club design to new gate areas should lead you onto an aircraft “dressed to impress”- even if a pax is in regular economy. I wished that UA went with “less is more” - oddly if they did EXACTLY the same livery as Lufthansa, (but they couldn’t) but with a silver globe on a very dark blue tail, very tailored, crisp...but it looks like someone didn’t yell “OK! STOP!” soon enough!
Sorry, old topic beaten to death, but I only just saw it live 48 hours ago. :-)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:47 pm

Polaris isn't the brand, United is. The folks upfront might spend the most per mile and their loyalty is important to any airline but filling the rest of the plane is what actually pays the bills. Being "friendly approachable" is one sure way (but certainly not the only way) to pull those customers away from the likes of WN and B6. The new livery might be a bit boring but it is also fresh, bright and clean which is an image United could use in spades after years of missteps. Other than matching the basic color palette Polaris probably had very little to do with this new livery. Having a solid premium product is critical and the fact that UA seems to be investing heavily in it is great to see but, at the end of the day, the airline still needs to be seen as approachable by the general public who are looking for an affordable seat.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:11 am

Another Polaris installation update came out today.
There were no changes to the 77E, 788 or 789 schedule and we already know the layout for the 788 and 789s.
However the 764 was finally included in this update according to the preliminary schedule the first 764 should go in for Polaris and PE installation in mid-August 2020. No estimated completion date was given but I think it is safe to assume with the installation starting so late this fleet type will not make Oscar's self imposed January 2021 deadline for Polaris completion. As of the update the on-board configuration will be 34J, 18PE, 175 E+/E- for a total of 227 seats.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:43 am

AviationAddict wrote:
Polaris isn't the brand, United is. The folks upfront might spend the most per mile and their loyalty is important to any airline but filling the rest of the plane is what actually pays the bills. Being "friendly approachable" is one sure way (but certainly not the only way) to pull those customers away from the likes of WN and B6. The new livery might be a bit boring but it is also fresh, bright and clean which is an image United could use in spades after years of missteps. Other than matching the basic color palette Polaris probably had very little to do with this new livery. Having a solid premium product is critical and the fact that UA seems to be investing heavily in it is great to see but, at the end of the day, the airline still needs to be seen as approachable by the general public who are looking for an affordable seat.


I never said “Polaris is the brand” all Polaris is, is a branded Class of Service, from UNITED. (vs UNITED Alpha)
I believe that on purely a brand strategy level that United has identified a new clear, different brand position that will help differentiate it in a category that is notoriously undifferentiated (Except to us!) Everything they are doing from top to bottom (nose to tail) is going in a very premium direction for a US major international airline.
It’s very, very difficult to see and feel change when it comes to an airline the size of United. Bits as pieces are rolled out over a long stretch of time. As of now, United has one foot (in its fairly recent messy past) and another foot FIRMLY planted in its future. But because of the mix of old and new it will take at least another year and a half to get the average consumer: economy flier, families, wealthy and big ticket business people to get the FULL NEW UNITED BRAND EXPERIENCE...then the work never stops as they will always be working to be a step ahead (if they are successful in their very strongly stated goal)

United was the HAPPY airline, and I loved United for it. In the 1970’s and the decades before, ad agencies were the brand stewards, and Leo Burnett applied their very special craft at the time (LB was one of the best at identifying a consumer insight, developing a big idea that tapped that insight, which in turn drove a brand’s business. Leo Burnett developed one (among many) of the most powerful brand ideas in the history of advertising (in 1959) based off tapping into a male consumer insight: Marlboro Country, and Marlboro cowboy.
Saul Bass’ livery fit hand in glove with Leo Burnett’s “Fly the Friendly Skies” and ALSO gave UA the best example of “sonic branding” ever with Rhapsody in Blue. Basically, it was a crystal clear brand idea that really tugged at America’s heartstrings at a time when flying was possible for everyone. It was really powerful.
My issue with the livery is its disconnect to the NEW United brand direction: which is far more premium than anything before.
I only used “Polaris” (along with many other examples) because of the “halo effect” it has had on the master-brand “United” whether you fly in Polaris or not (and the fact they branded their premium product with a different and unique name was very, very intentional as it is unique, and speaks directly to the big ticket business flier. Polaris also being the North Star perfectly speaks to their mission- for both the external audience as to where they are heading, and a rally cry for the internal audience.

But it is NOT just Polaris. Almost EVERY consumer touch-point, that’s been rolled out, at every level has been more sophisticated and contemporary. The UA biz model is all about the “buy-up”. The “new” UC’s are beautiful and cool. Just flying E+ on a newly refurbished (used) A319 you can see that there’s a new, strongly branded premium proprietary look and feel that’s a light year over the “ordinariness” of the past. (Which is still what passengers see mostly today) - but there is a s***load more to do!

Ask anyone who’s just come off a refurbished 777, 767, 78X and you will hear “wow, that was United!” Front to back (Except for the 10 abreast on a 777)
Frankly I cant wait for everything to be done, and frankly I think there is a lot to fix (like transcontinental and food etc).
I have some good friends who are FA’s on United and they are busting their butts to live the new brand promise.

And, so I do think they missed an opportunity with the new livery. I think the big, bold UNITED is unapologetic and proud, I just think the rest looked cheap when I saw it live vs everything else. Though probably better than the gold. But I’d love to see if they did Quant research!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:55 am

jayunited wrote:
Another Polaris installation update came out today.
There were no changes to the 77E, 788 or 789 schedule and we already know the layout for the 788 and 789s.
However the 764 was finally included in this update according to the preliminary schedule the first 764 should go in for Polaris and PE installation in mid-August 2020. No estimated completion date was given but I think it is safe to assume with the installation starting so late this fleet type will not make Oscar's self imposed January 2021 deadline for Polaris completion. As of the update the on-board configuration will be 34J, 18PE, 175 E+/E- for a total of 227 seats.


Hi Jayunited,
I recall reading a few years (it was either CO or newly post merger) how loved the 764 was by the airline management, and that they regretted not getting more. Is that still true or has she become something of an odd bird with the 787s in the fleet? It was that article I read (think it was WSJ) that has made me so curious why they were put at the back of the line. I also recall how the article puffed up the raked wingtips as an engineering marvel!
Thanks
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:57 am

CALTECH wrote:
Just saw the new livery in person the other day, when 267 diverted. Really like United on the Fuselage, the Blue cowlings and the swoop.

The tail however, just looks plain with the loss of the gold and white. Maybe the tail will grow on me.

Image


I'm the opposite sort of. I like everything but the titles. Just looks really off to me, it's like they just slapped them on the side and spread out the letters to cover more of the fuselage. I'm aware that's the point of billboard titles but this isn't the right font for it IMO.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:42 pm

What’s the latest count of used aircraft coming on board?

19 WN 73Gs
20 A319s from Easyjet
How many more A319s from CZ
Others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:26 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
CALTECH wrote:
Just saw the new livery in person the other day, when 267 diverted. Really like United on the Fuselage, the Blue cowlings and the swoop.

The tail however, just looks plain with the loss of the gold and white. Maybe the tail will grow on me.

Image


I'm the opposite sort of. I like everything but the titles. Just looks really off to me, it's like they just slapped them on the side and spread out the letters to cover more of the fuselage. I'm aware that's the point of billboard titles but this isn't the right font for it IMO.


I think that the giant branding (sorry I personally can’t use the word “titles”) contributes to the LCC look on a short stubby 738. But should look good on a wide body where there will be a lot of negative space between the “UNITED” and the tail. But, again what I’m trying to say is that branding (design) still falls under “marketing & advertising” - just in a different way.
I actually really like the word-mark. It’s crisp and simple, modern and timeless. The extra letter spacing (or tracking) has been a trend for a very long time. Look at the original VARIG from the before the big redesign 20 years ago, we had to modernize an old (but loved) brand. Those letter forms were really wonky on the old, but the pointed V and A were distinctive. We redrew them to be basically the same, but well done typographically AND tracked out the letter spacing to make the word mark look more modern. “We” at Landor did not do the giant billboard version that VARIG did later. (I’ve always thought that PanAm had a huge influence on South America airlines) BUT, if the desire is that people on the ground looking up at an airplane should be able to read the brand name from greater distances- then technically there must be a lot of letter spacing as the human eye will blur the letters together. But really at the end of the day, successful branding does change “perceptions”

But there is A LOT going on with this new livery, I don’t even know where to look first! Giant UNITED, bright blue engines, an enlarged globe blue on blue with a gradient and a wave in a very dark color, then a white space then a grey belly. I don’t think it’s going to change perceptions as much as it should.
ALONE the billboard branding of UNITED will come across to average people like my friends (who are neither designers or aviation enthusiasts) as bold and proud. (Which is good as United’s brand has taken a lot of hits for a long time) But they are the audience (not us, we are way too emotionally involved with airlines- all of us would be eliminated from any research)

This is what I do for a living (for over 30 years now), every project I work on I MUST detach myself from the design, and think only of the client’s target audience and how to deliver the desired brand perception. It doesn’t matter if it’s a bottle of bourbon, a tech brand, cosmetics or an airline- the goal is always to design that delivers the desired brand perception to the desired audience. Sometimes it’s narrow audience like “females 25-35” or “men 30+” sometimes it’s broad and complex and needs to connect to many different audiences (like an airline), young, old, male/female, business to business and the average family. But even then, the brand’s message must be crisp and singular, stand for something. American clearly wanted to be seen as America’s flagship, as BA is to the UK and AF is to France, etc.

In my professional opinion, the new livery is dissonant, not crisp. Yet, so many other “new” branding applications are crisp and clear, deliver on “stylish and premium” no matter the class of service, and Polaris is just one part of that equation, a strong one, but even sitting in economy on a newly refurbished A319, the interior speaks with the same brand message whether you’re in front or back.

United’s international fleet will be far more consistent in a year or two than the domestic fleet. When UA does finally get 150 737MAX’s with the new interior design, it’s going to make the current 737 fleet look awfully old and blah. “The devil is in the details”
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
rjmf22
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:28 pm

STT757 wrote:
What’s the latest count of used aircraft coming on board?

19 WN 73Gs
20 A319s from Easyjet
How many more A319s from CZ
Others?


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Will the A319's be CFM powered?
United Airlines
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:21 pm

I was thinking about this this morning, UA being at their cap of 76 seat regionals jets cannot add anymore unless they order a new 100 seater (A220, Erj195E2 etc..). Under this they would be allowed to add 1 new 76 seat regionals jet for every 1.25 new 100 seat mainline up to 88 100 seaters which would allow 70 additional 76 seat regionals.

However UA management have repeatedly stated the 100 seat aircraft don’t work under their coat structure and would rather keep adding A319s, 73Gs etc..

UA needs lots of additional domestic mainline aircraft, doing the math the 100 seat and 70 seat regional deal I mentioned above equals 158 total aircraft 88 100 seaters + 70 ERJ175s.

To make up for not pursuing this deal UA has in the works:


39 used A319s ( 20 Easyjet, 5 from ? and 14 from
CZ).

19 73Gs coming from WN

35 7379 Max
100 73710 Max
20 7378 Max?

213 total. That’s if they’re not replacing older aircraft, so depending on what their plans
Are for any retirements is whether can can catch up without additional orders.


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United1
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:27 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
What’s the latest count of used aircraft coming on board?

19 WN 73Gs
20 A319s from Easyjet
How many more A319s from CZ
Others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Will the A319's be CFM powered?


The 20 from U2 will be CFM powered...there is speculation UA will get additional frames beyond the initial 20 but so far that’s it.
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:07 pm

STT757 wrote:
I was thinking about this this morning, UA being at their cap of 76 seat regionals jets cannot add anymore unless they order a new 100 seater (A220, Erj195E2 etc..). Under this they would be allowed to add 1 new 76 seat regionals jet for every 1.25 new 100 seat mainline up to 88 100 seaters which would allow 70 additional 76 seat regionals.

However UA management have repeatedly stated the 100 seat aircraft don’t work under their coat structure and would rather keep adding A319s, 73Gs etc..

Yet, they think that 50 seats on a CR7 makes economic sense. There's no way Mainline pilots cost double regional. 100 seat E2-195 with 2 mainline pilots vs 50 seat CR7 with 2 regional pilots, economics have got to be similar. I know that they probably won't put 20 F seats in a 195, especially when they are just now bringing the A319 up to 12, but I question which routes can only sustain 50 seats but can fill 20% with F, right now.
Last edited by cosyr on Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:18 pm

VC10er wrote:
I think that the giant branding (sorry I personally can’t use the word “titles”) contributes to the LCC look on a short stubby 738.
Since when is the 738 "Stubby"? I can't find fuselage length of a 727-200 (since the vertical stabilizer sticks beyond the tail cone), but the cabin of the 738 is already 6 ft longer than a 722.

Overall, I like the new livery, and I think it walks the line between fresh and professional. I can nitpick on subtle things, like the wavy line, and I wish the contrasting blues on the globe could have a bit more of a 3D effect, but the titles are one thing I have no gripes with (along with the blue on the engines.) In fact, it took someone pointing out the non billboard title on the CR7, before I could pinpoint why I didn't like it as much.
 
rjmf22
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:51 pm

United1 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
What’s the latest count of used aircraft coming on board?

19 WN 73Gs
20 A319s from Easyjet
How many more A319s from CZ
Others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Will the A319's be CFM powered?


The 20 from U2 will be CFM powered...there is speculation UA will get additional frames beyond the initial 20 but so far that’s it.


Wow, so they'll have CFM and IAE powered airbuses.
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:36 am

cosyr wrote:
VC10er wrote:
I think that the giant branding (sorry I personally can’t use the word “titles”) contributes to the LCC look on a short stubby 738.
Since when is the 738 "Stubby"? I can't find fuselage length of a 727-200 (since the vertical stabilizer sticks beyond the tail cone), but the cabin of the 738 is already 6 ft longer than a 722.

Overall, I like the new livery, and I think it walks the line between fresh and professional. I can nitpick on subtle things, like the wavy line, and I wish the contrasting blues on the globe could have a bit more of a 3D effect, but the titles are one thing I have no gripes with (along with the blue on the engines.) In fact, it took someone pointing out the non billboard title on the CR7, before I could pinpoint why I didn't like it as much.


It looks “stubby” to me when wearing this livery. Just my opinion-not a fact. Which is why I’m hoping on a WB the livery will look less LCC.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:37 pm

772:
N78003 now sked to exit HKG 896/31Jul with Polaris/PE
N78004 enroute HKG 895/29Jul for Polaris/PE
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:56 pm

The fleet changes and fleet status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:04 pm

The first A319 (N850UA) with the new seating configuration (12F, 36E+, 78E) should be coming out of LCQ tomorrow July 30th. It will ferry as UA2689 LCQ-SFO, the first revenue flight is scheduled to take place on August 1st as UA368/UA2419 SFO-PSP-SFO.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:48 pm

jayunited wrote:
The first A319 (N850UA) with the new seating configuration (12F, 36E+, 78E) should be coming out of LCQ tomorrow July 30th. It will ferry as UA2689 LCQ-SFO, the first revenue flight is scheduled to take place on August 1st as UA368/UA2419 SFO-PSP-SFO.


Any chance it got paint?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
audidudi
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:52 pm

How many B737s are coming from WS? Is this one the first or have there been others? Skyliner-aviation.de has this listed today:

Boeing 737-76N 32404 851 C-FIWS WestJet ferried 31 July 2019 YYC-GYR, for United Airlines
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:58 pm

772:
N209UA looks to be lined up for XMN entry off 895/1Aug ORD-HKG, potentially restarting Polaris/PE mod
N792UA sked to exit XMN 2757/3Aug, maint visit only, already has Polaris
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:13 pm

Remarkably, I’ve never flown SOUTHWEST! I guess I could google it, but I do not know what their interiors look like.
How long will it take for UA to refurbish all those 737 interiors, and get them flying paying passengers?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
sketch
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:18 pm

VC10er wrote:
Remarkably, I’ve never flown SOUTHWEST! I guess I could google it, but I do not know what their interiors look like.
How long will it take for UA to refurbish all those 737 interiors, and get them flying paying passengers?

Southwest cabin is all economy, and apparently 31" pitch on the 737-700 (32" on everything else). United apparently uses 30" pitch in economy on their 737-700.

I'd assume United will just replace it all with their standard config but you never know. At least, I don't know.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:54 pm

audidudi wrote:
How many B737s are coming from WS? Is this one the first or have there been others? Skyliner-aviation.de has this listed today:

Boeing 737-76N 32404 851 C-FIWS WestJet ferried 31 July 2019 YYC-GYR, for United Airlines


If true it’s more good news for UA, they need to grow their domestic mainline fleet and they are with all these second hand aircraft. Regardless of the Max situation UA needs to be aggressive in adding new narrow body mainline aircraft.

Keep it up!


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RyanairGuru
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:08 am

sketch wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Remarkably, I’ve never flown SOUTHWEST! I guess I could google it, but I do not know what their interiors look like.
How long will it take for UA to refurbish all those 737 interiors, and get them flying paying passengers?

Southwest cabin is all economy, and apparently 31" pitch on the 737-700 (32" on everything else). United apparently uses 30" pitch in economy on their 737-700.

I'd assume United will just replace it all with their standard config but you never know. At least, I don't know.


The cabin refit is pretty straight forward and quick to accomplish. The longest part of the indoc process is getting the aircraft up to United's maintenance requirements and paperwork compliance. This will be easier with the WN aircraft than CZ A319s as they are already compliant with FAA requirements (that is NOT to say that the Chinese aircraft are not maintained well, just that the regulatory requirements vary)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:55 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
sketch wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Remarkably, I’ve never flown SOUTHWEST! I guess I could google it, but I do not know what their interiors look like.
How long will it take for UA to refurbish all those 737 interiors, and get them flying paying passengers?

Southwest cabin is all economy, and apparently 31" pitch on the 737-700 (32" on everything else). United apparently uses 30" pitch in economy on their 737-700.

I'd assume United will just replace it all with their standard config but you never know. At least, I don't know.


The cabin refit is pretty straight forward and quick to accomplish. The longest part of the indoc process is getting the aircraft up to United's maintenance requirements and paperwork compliance. This will be easier with the WN aircraft than CZ A319s as they are already compliant with FAA requirements (that is NOT to say that the Chinese aircraft are not maintained well, just that the regulatory requirements vary)


THANK YOU SO MUCH! I guess each of us have specific or particular interests of the many different ways we love airplanes and the aviation business as a whole. One of my top interests is “branding” overall (not just livery) and watching how well an airline executed their branding- from aesthetics, to message, quality of execution and consistency. I happen to really like the new Priestman-Goode designed interiors for UA, and happen to really dislike the old standard solid blue grey “everything”, such as a 737-8/900, or 752 or 764 is today. It’s so boring and simply reinforces United’s (soon to be old) ordinariness, lack of style.
BUT, when I have been on the new (used) renovated A319s that got the FULL treatment inside, I personally was so impressed by how new, modern and stylish it is- not overboard in styling, but tailored and classy. (Ex: Lufthansa is so perfectly consistent and branded, you do, as a pax, get the sense of how proud LH is of being LH)
Back to United, the few 763s that have been refurbished I’ve flown, the new 763s look, feel and smell factory new. The well done branding inside makes United look proud to be United, and really says “a new United is coming”People are truly astonished when I tell them roughly how old that 767 actually is!

I was worried that given the urgent need for these 737s due to the MAX delays, that UA would fly them with WN interiors but with UA seats, only adding more inconsistencies.

So, thanks again!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:06 pm

It’s a misconception that the additional 73Gs have anything to do with the MAX grounding. United has long been in the market for used (but not run-out) 737NGs and Southwest intended to unload the ex-FL 737s when they came off lease. The transaction has been in the works for months, if not closer to a year, and the capacity is needed for United’s growth plans well after the MAX returns to service.

Though it’s gone on for more than anyone anticipated, the grounding is still viewed as an aberration and nobody is making any *long-term* capacity decisions as a result.

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