User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:10 am

Just a note to users: this thread isn't intended as an "all things UA" thread, it's intended to be for a consolidated discussion on the fleet and network operations. Discussions on service options and products belong in the Travel Forum, as that's where that sort of discussion is more appropriate.

Thanks
✈️ atcsundevil
 
VC10er
Posts: 4042
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:18 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Just a note to users: this thread isn't intended as an "all things UA" thread, it's intended to be for a consolidated discussion on the fleet and network operations. Discussions on service options and products belong in the Travel Forum, as that's where that sort of discussion is more appropriate.

Thanks
✈️ atcsundevil


Ok, thanks, got it!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:56 pm

The fleet changes post at the start of this thread has been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2894
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:58 pm

752:
N14120, which ingested bird(s) departing OPO 8/6 is sked to ferry to EWR 2728/12Aug, presume after engine change 
 
rjmf22
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:55 pm

Looks like UA scheduled a daily 777-200 between IAD-LAX from October 5, 2019 to January 5, 2020. Replaces a 737-900ER.

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 35776?s=21
United Airlines
 
airlineworker
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:14 pm

UA to start CRJ-550's this year at ORD. https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/first-u ... n-chicago/
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm

Interesting thing from the winter schedule:

It looks like ORD-LHR drops to 2x daily on MTWF from Jan 10 - Jan 31 and also on Feb 4.

I don't recall ORD-LHR being anything other than 3x daily, even when other markets have seasonal suspensions or drop to less-than-daily service.

Which of the three rotations was dropped varies – each sees some omissions from the schedule. I wonder if that's to preserve the LHR slots (avoiding dropping below minimum usage for a specific slot) or to optimize a high-J 763's utlization.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:39 pm

I'm curious to know what will be the range of this reduced MTOW CR7 @50 seats. I read 1000 nm somewhere.

Someone else knows more about this?
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:43 pm

airlineworker wrote:
UA to start CRJ-550's this year at ORD. https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/first-u ... n-chicago/

Yep we already knew this. No new news here. However, the aircraft isn’t even certificated yet, so no timeline at the moment.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:44 pm

Interesting concept, and the 2 things I wonder about:

1) I wonder if F pax will actually like the self-serve bar area. I think they could, but only if the FA does the initial drink/snack service before moving to the back cabin.

2) I'm calling it now: if those mid-cabin storage bins
don't have a false wall about 2 feet in, they willl be a logistics nightmare, solely because it will be loaded F>Y+>Y due to boarding group order but will also be unloaded in that fashion due to seat config. F pax will put their luggage in first, which will then be blocked by Y pax who push the F bags to the back to make room for theirs.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:44 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
I'm curious to know what will be the range of this reduced MTOW CR7 @50 seats. I read 1000 nm somewhere.

Someone else knows more about this?

Per Bombardier website, the range is 1000NM.

commercialaircraft.bombardier.com/themes/bca/pdf/DDBC0550_May2019_CRJ550_WebFactsheet_En_V4.pdf
 
drdisque
Posts: 1058
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:53 pm

lowfareair wrote:
Interesting concept, and the 2 things I wonder about:

1) I wonder if F pax will actually like the self-serve bar area. I think they could, but only if the FA does the initial drink/snack service before moving to the back cabin.

2) I'm calling it now: if those mid-cabin storage bins
don't have a false wall about 2 feet in, they willl be a logistics nightmare, solely because it will be loaded F>Y+>Y due to boarding group order but will also be unloaded in that fashion due to seat config. F pax will put their luggage in first, which will then be blocked by Y pax who push the F bags to the back to make room for theirs.


3 Cabins, 3 bins. Do you think that's a coincidence?

Each seating area will have its own bin(s), nobody will be blocking F bags. The fore and aft closets both marked as "coat closets" are also in play.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8216
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:54 pm

lowfareair wrote:
Interesting concept, and the 2 things I wonder about:

1) I wonder if F pax will actually like the self-serve bar area. I think they could, but only if the FA does the initial drink/snack service before moving to the back cabin.

2) I'm calling it now: if those mid-cabin storage bins
don't have a false wall about 2 feet in, they willl be a logistics nightmare, solely because it will be loaded F>Y+>Y due to boarding group order but will also be unloaded in that fashion due to seat config. F pax will put their luggage in first, which will then be blocked by Y pax who push the F bags to the back to make room for theirs.


Watching people carelessly bang into each other in the jetway, where there's WAY more space, is already hilarious. That closet thing is gonna be a nightmare and absolutely won't save time, unless there's something I'm missing here.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:59 pm

They should switch the self serve bar and one of the bag areas to reserve that for F.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:07 pm

I am hoping the CRJ-550 will retain the good short runway performance of the CRJ-700. With fewer seats and passengers, it should be as good or better than the 700. Looking for this plane to do the ORD-HVN route.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3391
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:17 pm

It’s the same plane, so no change in take-off performance. But, HVN is unlikely still.

GF
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:32 pm

Wow - you guys are all eating up the United Marketing hype.

This isn't a radical new design. It is a CRJ-700 where a few seats have been replaced by some closets and the remaining seating has been spread out to get the seating down to 50. There are only 13-15 fewer seats than a normally configured CRJ-700 for other airlines.

For a passenger in economy or economy plus, the experience will not be different at all. i am guessing the closest will hold first class luggage and maybe a little bit of economy plus, but there is no way the 3 closets will hold what is normally valet checked on a CRJ-700.

The main benefit will be with 10 first class seats and only 40 coach class, upgrades will be easier, and for those in first class, the closets and relatively good space especially on the A side will be nice.
 
United1
Posts: 3840
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:46 pm

adamblang wrote:
Interesting thing from the winter schedule:

It looks like ORD-LHR drops to 2x daily on MTWF from Jan 10 - Jan 31 and also on Feb 4.

I don't recall ORD-LHR being anything other than 3x daily, even when other markets have seasonal suspensions or drop to less-than-daily service.

Which of the three rotations was dropped varies – each sees some omissions from the schedule. I wonder if that's to preserve the LHR slots (avoiding dropping below minimum usage for a specific slot) or to optimize a high-J 763's utlization.


I believe UA reduced ORD-LHR during January last year and I think the year before that. It really is a slow month for travel...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
B764er
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:19 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:10 pm

Any idea what is going to happen to former CO 757 ship 3123? Are they fixing it or scrapping it?
 
ual4life
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:10 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 pm

Scrapping it. Was mentioned a handful of pages ago. Very sad :/
NNVII
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5433
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:35 pm

airlineworker wrote:
I am hoping the CRJ-550 will retain the good short runway performance of the CRJ-700. With fewer seats and passengers, it should be as good or better than the 700. Looking for this plane to do the ORD-HVN route.


I don't know about HVN but I'd bet money on HPN.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:43 pm

kbmiflyer wrote:
Wow - you guys are all eating up the United Marketing hype.

This isn't a radical new design. It is a CRJ-700 where a few seats have been replaced by some closets and the remaining seating has been spread out to get the seating down to 50. There are only 13-15 fewer seats than a normally configured CRJ-700 for other airlines.

For a passenger in economy or economy plus, the experience will not be different at all. i am guessing the closest will hold first class luggage and maybe a little bit of economy plus, but there is no way the 3 closets will hold what is normally valet checked on a CRJ-700.

The main benefit will be with 10 first class seats and only 40 coach class, upgrades will be easier, and for those in first class, the closets and relatively good space especially on the A side will be nice.


Who is flying CRJ-700s with 63 seats?
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:52 pm

They should have installed a forward lav!
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
MavyWavyATR
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 am

I still think United is crazy only putting 50 seats in a RJ that can fit roughly 70; especially considering that the 50 is split up by the 3 class model.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:21 am

kbmiflyer wrote:
Wow - you guys are all eating up the United Marketing hype.


We all know that those CRJ-200s / ERJ145s are all running out of cycles and are heading to the boneyard sooner than later.

Agreed that most of these routes / frequencies will be reduced or cancelled altogether.

But some "premium heavy" routes could survive via a more appropriate aircraft.

The CRJ-700 is the only current RJ that can be flown as a 50 seater while still being scope compliant - via paper derated MTOW.

I'm convinced United figured out which "thin premium" routes can make a good use of those CRJ-550s. (They'll only have 54 to play with - so not a big risk really).

For business class connecting passengers, it will also ensure a slightly more consistant product quality for the whole journey.
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:21 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
kbmiflyer wrote:
Wow - you guys are all eating up the United Marketing hype.

This isn't a radical new design. It is a CRJ-700 where a few seats have been replaced by some closets and the remaining seating has been spread out to get the seating down to 50. There are only 13-15 fewer seats than a normally configured CRJ-700 for other airlines.

For a passenger in economy or economy plus, the experience will not be different at all. i am guessing the closest will hold first class luggage and maybe a little bit of economy plus, but there is no way the 3 closets will hold what is normally valet checked on a CRJ-700.

The main benefit will be with 10 first class seats and only 40 coach class, upgrades will be easier, and for those in first class, the closets and relatively good space especially on the A side will be nice.


Who is flying CRJ-700s with 63 seats?


DL 700's have 69 seats, AA 700's have 63 seats and UA's 700's have 70 seats. These may differ by a few seats as airlines adjust seating according to markets.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s the same plane, so no change in take-off performance. But, HVN is unlikely still.

GF


AA was doing HVN-CLT with the CRJ-700, so I thought it could do ORD since it would have a lower weight.
 
amcnd
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:33 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s the same plane, so no change in take-off performance. But, HVN is unlikely still.

GF



No it won’t have the same performance. Hence why SkyWest isn’t interested do to Aspen.. the engines will be derated. And the Max TO weight reduced..
 
jayunited
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:47 am

AV8AJET wrote:
They should have installed a forward lav!


Wouldn't that require a redesign by the manufacture?
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:06 am

N766UA wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
Interesting concept, and the 2 things I wonder about:

1) I wonder if F pax will actually like the self-serve bar area. I think they could, but only if the FA does the initial drink/snack service before moving to the back cabin.

2) I'm calling it now: if those mid-cabin storage bins
don't have a false wall about 2 feet in, they willl be a logistics nightmare, solely because it will be loaded F>Y+>Y due to boarding group order but will also be unloaded in that fashion due to seat config. F pax will put their luggage in first, which will then be blocked by Y pax who push the F bags to the back to make room for theirs.


Watching people carelessly bang into each other in the jetway, where there's WAY more space, is already hilarious. That closet thing is gonna be a nightmare and absolutely won't save time, unless there's something I'm missing here.

This is still a CR7, which I can fit my bags into the overhead bins in 60% of the time, depending on my bag, so the closets are just a boost, and there should be lots of storage for 50 passengers in all classes.
 
windycity613
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:17 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:11 am

jayunited wrote:
timberwolf24 wrote:
Anyone know when UA will announce new international service for 2020?


If you are looking for or expecting an AA style type announcement for 2020 I think you are in for disappointment. It's easy to forget UA has launched quite a few international routes this year, we still have a few more launches this year and next year.
SFO-MEL 3x weekly, seasonal
SFO-DEL seasonal (may go year around some time in 2020)
SFO-MUC, year around service (4 or 5x weekly from mid January through March)
LAX-HND,
EWR-HND,
EWR-CPT, seasonal 3x weekly,
EWR-PVG, (if DOT grants approval for 2x daily double)

United has a total of 28 additional Boeing frames on order from 77Ws, to 78Js, and 789s but deliveries are spread out starting from Q4 2019 through Q1 2023. We are going to see increased frequencies to cities already served, connecting hubs with existing international destinations, launching all new destinations, but it is going to be spread out over a period of time between Q4 2019 and Q1 2023.

Outside of the list above I think what we are looking at for spring/summer 2020 is the return of SFO-AMS. In addition EWR-NAP, EWR-PRG, EWR-OPO, EWR-VCE, EWR-ATH, EWR-KEF, IAD-BCN, and ORD-FCO might have their seasons starting earlier next year.

Looking even deeper into 2020 I think come Q3 or Q4 2020 IAD-TLV will go daily. So far all that UA has stated on SFO-DEL is that demand is strong than they predicted. I think UA sticks with the 3x weekly seasonal service for 2019/2020 but will resume the route in either Q3 or Q4 however instead of 3x weekly the route will be daily.

Looking forward to 2021 if IAD-TLV goes daily in 2020 then there there is a change we probably will see another hub connected to TLV. The two hubs at the top of that list in my opinion are either ORD or LAX. I can see a case being made for both of these hubs but I would expect UA to only choose one not both to launch new service.

Also we still are in the mist of Polaris/PE installation I think there will be some sort of small announcement for 2020 but I'd wager there will be an even bigger announcement for 2021 because UA will be at full strength meaning except for frames out of service for heavy maintenance UA will have its entire international widebody fleet at its disposal.


Is it possible UA will start at ORD or LAX sooner than 2021 with LY starting ORD TLV in Q2 2020? Plus DFW -TLV Q4 2020
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2894
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:11 am

767-300ER High J configuration:
N685UA, former N590HA, sked to exit HKG 2754/14Aug in High J Polaris/PP configuration
46J/22PP/47E+/52Y configuration.
8th High J unit converted. 9 more to go (3 Ex-HA birds now complete).
 
User avatar
KLASM83
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:08 am

Re: First CRJ-550 at ORD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:17 am

jayunited wrote:
AV8AJET wrote:
They should have installed a forward lav!


Wouldn't that require a redesign by the manufacture?



It shouldn't. I remember the original Delta Connection OO CR7's had forward lavs, so I figure you can plop one down there, and put in the plumbing as needed, but I can be wrong.
"The goodness of the true pun is in the direct ratio of its intolerability" -Edgar Allan Poe

Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
 
amtravels
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:54 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:39 am

I’ve heard XNA as a very likely possibility for the CRJ550. What about ORD-ICT? Lots of business HQs out there.
 
sohanb82
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:46 am

amtravels wrote:
I’ve heard XNA as a very likely possibility for the CRJ550. What about ORD-ICT? Lots of business HQs out there.


Believe this was already announced for the 550 as the first route being ORD-XNA.

How many orders does UA have for the 550/how many do they have for the ERJ-175SC? Enough orders to replace almost all of the CRJ-700s?
 
amtravels
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:54 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:06 am

sohanb82 wrote:
amtravels wrote:
I’ve heard XNA as a very likely possibility for the CRJ550. What about ORD-ICT? Lots of business HQs out there.


Believe this was already announced for the 550 as the first route being ORD-XNA.

How many orders does UA have for the 550/how many do they have for the ERJ-175SC? Enough orders to replace almost all of the CRJ-700s?


You’re correct, UA said ORD-XNA is first route. I know ORD-ICT is flown almost exclusively with CRJ-200 or ERJ-145 now. IAH-ICT typically uses a E170.

UA has ordered 54 CRJ-550 and they currently have 158 CRJ-200.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
767-300ER High J configuration:
N685UA, former N590HA, sked to exit HKG 2754/14Aug in High J Polaris/PP configuration
46J/22PP/47E+/52Y configuration.
8th High J unit converted. 9 more to go (3 Ex-HA birds now complete).


Make that 13 more to go. There will be 21 767’s in the high J configuration.

We expect to introduce all 21 reconfigured 767-300ERs to our fleet by the end of next year.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2894
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:47 pm

EssentialBusDC, thanks for posting, but I don't know where the 21 number comes from and if refers to all remaining 76C to get High J Polaris/PP the number would be 24 as 3 exHA units are now complete.

The 21 to 24 76L units would be nice if true, but to my knowledge the below is the plan and maybe someone can confirm or deny either plan.
In fact N658UA is exiting HKG 2757/14Aug w/o Polaris.

If you ask me, I think 21 or 24 High J units are way too many and if the 1992/1993 units were converted to Polaris the 30J configuration makes more sense if used on TATL,Hawaii or Transcon routes. Since the only difference between 76C and 76A is Polaris vs. Diamond, I believe the 7 1992/93 units would do just fine until retirement on Hawaii and Transcon service - just keep them off TATL to standardize International to Polaris.

763s: Total 38 units
76A, 14 of 14 complete with 30J, no PP
76L, 8 complete (including all 3 Ex HAL complete)
76C, 9 1998/2001 units sked for High J 76L configuration (1 currently in mod)
That's 31 763s with Polaris
76C, 7 1992/1993 units sked for retirement at some point and will not receive Polaris

If this is incorrect, I hope someone can provide an update.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:54 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
EssentialBusDC, thanks for posting, but I don't know where the 21 number comes from and if refers to all remaining 76C to get High J Polaris/PP the number would be 24 as 3 exHA units are now complete.

The 21 to 24 76L units would be nice if true, but to my knowledge the below is the plan and maybe someone can confirm or deny either plan.
In fact N658UA is exiting HKG 2757/14Aug w/o Polaris.

If you ask me, I think 21 or 24 High J units are way too many and if the 1992/1993 units were converted to Polaris the 30J configuration makes more sense if used on TATL,Hawaii or Transcon routes. Since the only difference between 76C and 76A is Polaris vs. Diamond, I believe the 7 1992/93 units would do just fine until retirement on Hawaii and Transcon service - just keep them off TATL to standardize International to Polaris.

763s: Total 38 units
76A, 14 of 14 complete with 30J, no PP
76L, 8 complete (including all 3 Ex HAL complete)
76C, 9 1998/2001 units sked for High J 76L configuration (1 currently in mod)
That's 31 763s with Polaris
76C, 7 1992/1993 units sked for retirement at some point and will not receive Polaris

If this is incorrect, I hope someone can provide an update.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-456260/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... -767s/amp/
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2894
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:12 pm

Thanks, so if it hasn't changed since March, UA will convert 4 of the 7 older 763s and have only 3 on the retire list. We'll have to see which aircraft get Polaris.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
Thanks, so if it hasn't changed since March, UA will convert 4 of the 7 older 763s and have only 3 on the retire list. We'll have to see which aircraft get Polaris.

Maybe by growing through some of the older frames, they can keep more downtime and extend their life further. Hopefully, most can really stay until 2025 for the 797, but given how long the 787 took to get off the ground, I think UA will be in tough position between 2025-2028. And that keeps getting longer as Boeing drags its feet on launching the program. If it realistically took that long, can UA keep most of their 767's and 757's going for another 10 years? Some of those planes will be as much as 34 years old by then.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:43 pm

cosyr wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
Thanks, so if it hasn't changed since March, UA will convert 4 of the 7 older 763s and have only 3 on the retire list. We'll have to see which aircraft get Polaris.

Maybe by growing through some of the older frames, they can keep more downtime and extend their life further. Hopefully, most can really stay until 2025 for the 797, but given how long the 787 took to get off the ground, I think UA will be in tough position between 2025-2028. And that keeps getting longer as Boeing drags its feet on launching the program. If it realistically took that long, can UA keep most of their 767's and 757's going for another 10 years? Some of those planes will be as much as 34 years old by then.



That answer is complex and is made more so by the increased maintenance costs as a plane ages. The number of hours and cycles isn't unlimited and some of these frames will start hitting the caps in that time range.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm

cosyr wrote:
Maybe by growing through some of the older frames, they can keep more downtime and extend their life further. Hopefully, most can really stay until 2025 for the 797, but given how long the 787 took to get off the ground, I think UA will be in tough position between 2025-2028. And that keeps getting longer as Boeing drags its feet on launching the program. If it realistically took that long, can UA keep most of their 767's and 757's going for another 10 years? Some of those planes will be as much as 34 years old by then.


I don't think UA will wait that long. The 1998 and onward frames perhaps can survive, but the 1992/3 frames I don't see them hanging around till 2027-2028.
My belief is this; this Boeing's order to loose, I think the RR 752s will be okay till 2028 provided the MAX10s arrive ontime. But I think if Boeing doesn't want to loose this potential widebody order to Airbus then they need to offer UA some 788s to bridge the gap and perhpas allow UA to exchange what would be slightly used 788s for the 797 once it comes to market.
UA has been extremely patience with Boeing and UA is doing everything possible to extend the life of our 763s but Boeing has to make a decision soon.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Maybe by growing through some of the older frames, they can keep more downtime and extend their life further. Hopefully, most can really stay until 2025 for the 797, but given how long the 787 took to get off the ground, I think UA will be in tough position between 2025-2028. And that keeps getting longer as Boeing drags its feet on launching the program. If it realistically took that long, can UA keep most of their 767's and 757's going for another 10 years? Some of those planes will be as much as 34 years old by then.


I don't think UA will wait that long. The 1998 and onward frames perhaps can survive, but the 1992/3 frames I don't see them hanging around till 2027-2028.
My belief is this; this Boeing's order to loose, I think the RR 752s will be okay till 2028 provided the MAX10s arrive ontime. But I think if Boeing doesn't want to loose this potential widebody order to Airbus then they need to offer UA some 788s to bridge the gap and perhpas allow UA to exchange what would be slightly used 788s for the 797 once it comes to market.
UA has been extremely patience with Boeing and UA is doing everything possible to extend the life of our 763s but Boeing has to make a decision soon.



The suggestion of interim lift is a good one. In a sense, that is what Boeing did with the 77W order; a quick and for UA cheap way to retire the 744s and save money on fuel and maintenance.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:04 pm

UAX Update:

CR5:
N162GJ exited AMA with new livery, ferried TUS for CR5 interior
N163GJ exited TUS with CR5 interior, ferried STL
N504GJ ferried STL awaiting certification

CR7:
N164GJ exited revenue service as CR7, awaiting CR5 mod

E175SC:
N608UX enters revenue service 14Aug
N610UX delivered to ExpressJet for induction
N612UX delivered to ExpressJet for induction
 
jayunited
Posts: 2159
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:23 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
The suggestion of interim lift is a good one. In a sense, that is what Boeing did with the 77W order; a quick and for UA cheap way to retire the 744s and save money on fuel and maintenance.


Exactly, Boeing has to do something, they've been sitting on the sidelines weighing their options on whether there is a market for the 797 despite airlines like UA and DL saying we want (need) this aircraft. Meanwhile you have airbus developing the A321XLR an aircraft UA is now expressing interest in. There also have been some articles in the past that have suggested UA is considering some variant of the A330. Kirby has stated in the past at a town hall what UA would like to do is a combination of some 788s and 797s to replace both the 763s and 757s.
However in my opinion if Boeing drops the ball and gives Airbus an opening Airbus will seize this opportunity with a combination of A321LR/XLRs and A330s. When combined with the fact that A359 deliveries start late 2022 as an initial replacement for some of our 77A/Es, if Boeing doesn't get its act together and allows an airline like UA slip through its fingers, by 2030-2032 most of UA's widebody fleet could be all or nearly all Airbus except for the 77Ws. With Airbus now planning to launch the A350-1000ULR I can easily see UA when the time comes replacing the 77Ws with A350-1000 and/or the ULR variant.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:25 am

jayunited wrote:

Exactly, Boeing has to do something, they've been sitting on the sidelines weighing their options on whether there is a market for the 797 despite airlines like UA and DL saying we want (need) this aircraft. Meanwhile you have airbus developing the A321XLR an aircraft UA is now expressing interest in. There also have been some articles in the past that have suggested UA is considering some variant of the A330. Kirby has stated in the past at a town hall what UA would like to do is a combination of some 788s and 797s to replace both the 763s and 757s.


At the risk of bringing up a topic that may or may not have been laid to rest a while ago, if UA is specifically looking for a 763/757 replacement, does the previously shelved B787-3 have any possibility of being revived? Other than originally being a bit lacking in range, it seems like the -3 is about right for a 763/757 successor. 787 fuselage size yet code D wingspan so it can use current 767 gates (yeah, looking at you ORD).

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3000nm%40sfo (3,000NM from SFO)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_78 ... iner#787-3

"787-3

The 787-3 would have carried 290–330 passengers in two-class over 2,500–3,050 nmi (4,630–5,650 km) range, limited by a 364,000 lb (165 t) MTOW.[314]"

"It kept the -8 length but its 51.7 m wingspan would have fit in ICAO Aerodrome Reference Code D.[315] It was designed to operate on Boeing 757-300/Boeing 767-200 sized regional routes from airports with restricted gate spacing.[316] The wingspan was decreased by using blended winglets instead of raked wingtips."
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2894
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:50 am

I just don't get the 797 potential characteristics. In my opinion, the choices are either a single aisle aircraft with a slightly longer range than the 752 that could be as long as the 753 or something like a 762/788 type twin aisle 8 or 9 across Y aircraft that takes LD3s.

If the aircraft is short like a 762, I don't understand why it would be purchased when a 763 or 764 type length would be easily available with virtually no extra cost to operate.

Unless Boeing has something else that is radically different in concept, I don't see how the 797 can crack the market with similar aircraft available.

The 787-3 doesn't excite me range shorter than the 752. Can I ask at this point if UA, in retrospect, would have hoped their last 6 772A aircraft received in 2000 were really 772ER aircraft? It appears UA will convert 4 772ERs to domestic configuration soon.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I just don't get the 797 potential characteristics. In my opinion, the choices are either a single aisle aircraft with a slightly longer range than the 752 that could be as long as the 753 or something like a 762/788 type twin aisle 8 or 9 across Y aircraft that takes LD3s.

If the aircraft is short like a 762, I don't understand why it would be purchased when a 763 or 764 type length would be easily available with virtually no extra cost to operate.

Unless Boeing has something else that is radically different in concept, I don't see how the 797 can crack the market with similar aircraft available.

The 787-3 doesn't excite me range shorter than the 752. Can I ask at this point if UA, in retrospect, would have hoped their last 6 772A aircraft received in 2000 were really 772ER aircraft? It appears UA will convert 4 772ERs to domestic configuration soon.


The best compromise idea that I heard of was the extra wide narrowbody idea. The one where there would be a double wide aisle and 3 seats on either side in Y. That would leave enough room for 1-2-1 in J with 2 normal aisles, and room to pass carts in Y, without being that much bigger and heavier than current narrowbodies. That also would allow for just a little bit more cargo space.

But I agree with you, that the 767's 7 seats across with 2 aisles seams like a fairly inefficient floor plan, making a plane bigger and heavier than a narrowbody, without the extra revenue potential of a bigger widebody. Boeing talks about the MoM being an obvious hole in the market, but there's a reason they won't jump, because there's only a small group of markets that would be perfectly served by a plane of that size and range. Airlines want something in that size with identical economics to a 737 or A35J and I don't think that will ever by possible. Hopefully, it is close enough that they will make it anyway, because it will be the best plane from a pax perspective with either design.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:29 pm

Seth Miller reporting that UA is converting some MAX orders to the -8, which has been already discussed here. He’s also reporting that UA will install PTVs on some MAX planes, which goes against the current steaming-only plan.

https://paxex.aero/2019/08/united-airli ... paign=3199
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos